»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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flussence hm, awkward. 00:11
this compile failure isn't caused by 32-bit *or* too new system libs
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pmichaud phenny: tell felher there was a camera in the room with my first talk; I have no idea if the video was recorded or when it might appear. Maybe ping the YAPC::NA organizers :-) 00:59
phenny pmichaud: I'll pass that on when felher is around.
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UncleFester6 flussence: it just occurred to me that your failure is on a netbook and mine is on a laptop. Any ideas on testing if it is a limited memory problem? 01:19
I think my laptop has 1 GIG ...
flussence hm, mine's got 1GB + about half a gig of swap. Never ran out of memory with it though...
sorear rakudo needs about 1-1.5 G currently I think 01:20
flussence it's 32-bit, usually about 800MB there
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flussence and it fails a bit too quickly to be OOM, I think. 01:22
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UncleFester6 flussence: if your desktop uses bash you might try ulimit to build with limited memory ... just a thougt - I'll try to increas my swap tomorrow 01:39
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flussence I might give that a try tomorrow 01:45
&
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adu I'm going to try being traditional here: 02:24
o/
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quiefanatic Good ** #perl6 02:28
adu hi quiefanatic
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quietfanatic Not sure what quie is but I'm probably not it. 02:29
adu heh 02:30
tab completion gone wrong
adu loves it when stuff justifies, tho
quietfanatic No, it was me typing my nick in wrong
but also that I guess 02:31
raiph o/
quietfanatic \o
adu o/ 02:32
sorear o/ quietfanatic 02:33
raiph reading pmichaud's list slides pmichaud.com/2012/pres/yapcna-lists...start.html
"By default, arguments bind one-to-one without flattening"
but "Slurpy parameter is both lazy and flattening" 02:34
have to do ** for non-flattening slurpy 02:35
quietfanatic Still think the slurpy should be | to match with prefix:<|> 02:36
but who listens to me
raiph might be nicer to be consistent, and have *@sluroy mean non-flattening
s/sluroy/slurpy/
quietfanatic++
quietfanatic Well, in other places, ** is a multi-dimensional version of *
raiph that's what i was about to add
quietfanatic like, I think @lol[*] is different from @lol[**] 02:37
I could just be making this up though
raiph quietfanatic: are you saying that's a counter argument to using |*@slurpy (or *|@slurpy)? 02:38
quietfanatic raiph: No, it's a justification for *@slurpy being 1-dimensional and **@slurpy being multidimensional
With | I guess it would be |@slurpy and ||@slurpy 02:39
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quietfanatic Hmm, maybe that's not such a good idea after all 02:39
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adu omg, I don't understand 02:39
what's the difference between my @a = 1,2,3; and my $c = [1,2,3];? 02:40
raiph oh i wasn't thinking | for indicating slurpy, just flattening, to be consistent with flattening on call
adu (slide15)
quietfanatic Hm
adu python uses * for slurpy 02:41
sorear adu: the first one declares @a, the second one declares $c
quietfanatic adu: They do the same thing in that statement, but in one case you have an @ variable and in one case you have a $ variable 02:42
sorear they are two different variables, the sigil is part of the name
quietfanatic adu: @a will generally flatten, and $a will never flatten even if it contains a list
adu is this something I would know if I knew Perl5?
quietfanatic Not exactly, no
In Perl5, @a must always be a list, and $a must be either a scalar or a reference to a list 02:43
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quietfanatic In Perl6, everything is a reference (kinda), so @a and $a are stored the same way 02:43
The only difference is that @a may only contain something that does the Positional[] role, and it will automatically flatten in some contexts. 02:44
adu I think I'll stick with parsing XML, that's easy
quietfanatic like in for @a { .say }
hrrm 02:45
adu so if I want non-flattening positional objects, then I should always use $?
quietfanatic I guess
yes.
adu I'm used to seeing some funky notation when you want flattening, like ',@' 02:46
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raiph adu: i don't think it's that black and white 02:46
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raiph adu: i think scalar containers generally don't flatten, positionals do 02:47
s/positionals do/positionals generally do/ 02:48
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raiph but you can be explicit, to make either go the other way 02:48
adu but if I say my $y = @x; then can't I do $y[2]? which would imply it supports the positional role
quietfanatic You can. 02:49
raiph and, as this is perl, there are probably exceptions when that's the best thing overall
quietfanatic $ is the least restrictive sigil.
@ requires Positional, % requires Associative, and & requires Callable
, I believe.
raiph adu: hence the "in general" bit of "In general, non-scalars interpolate ("flatten") in lists, and scalars do not: " 02:50
adu so @ implies Positional, % implies Associative? 02:51
quietfanatic yes
raiph goodnight all
quietfanatic at least, according to how I heard it from TimToady a few years ago :)
night raiph
adu ooo there is a ',@' 02:52
.list
I like that
raiph: good night
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quietfanatic $a.list is equivalent to @($a), I believe 02:53
and @a.item is equivalent to $(@a)
and $a.lol is equivalent to @@($a)
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quietfanatic Check that; TimToady says there's no @@() any more 02:55
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adu a "few years ago"? 03:03
quietfanatic Perl 6 has been around quite a while, though it's been mutating.
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adu I remember hearing about Parrot 2006 ish 03:04
quietfanatic Perl 6 first started being designed in 2000ish 03:05
[Coke] adu: parrot dates back to 2001 or so 03:06
adu I seem to remember hearing that 03:07
quietfanatic Parrot was designed primarily with p6 in mind, though it was hoping to also support p5
the latter project being called PONIE
sorear PONIE was officially abandoned a couple years ago 03:08
adu I thought no one understood p5 enough to reimplement it
quietfanatic Yep. Turns out only Perl can run perl. :)
(5)
adu I could care less about ponie, pynie, pruby or whatever else used to run on parrot, I just need a scheme 03:09
quietfanatic Don't quote me on this, but I don't think Parrot is going to survive once Rakudo supports another platform.
adu and I've looked into what code I could find (most of what used to be in /languages is pretty hard to locate now) 03:10
quietfanatic though that probably depends on whether m0 ever comes around. 03:11
[Coke] adu: trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/Languages
adu [Coke]: yeah, I know, most of those links are dead 03:12
[Coke] (linked to from parrot.org/languages)
adu hence "hard to locate"
sorear Ethernet will never die.
Any system developed to replace it will be called "Ethernet". 03:13
adu the two links I'm sad about are: pheme and scheme/p5
quietfanatic A rose by any other smell... 03:14
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adu right 03:14
but eclectus works, but it isn't written in Parrot/PGE/Perl6Grammars, it's written in pure scheme
pheme is written in Perl6, and I'd like to find it so I can borrow ideas
but I can't find it 03:15
sorear mberends? You return?
mberends heh
quietfanatic How is a scheme implementation written in scheme on Parrot?
[Coke] adu: I clicked on the first 18 or so. all but 2 links work.
adu [Coke]: probably the ones I just mentioned
mberends sorear: it would be rude not to 03:16
[Coke] "most are dead". please keep the hyperbole to a minimum. ;)
ironically, those are ones originally hosted in parrot's svn server. they are probably there, just not updated to point at their new git location.
github.com/parrot/pheme 03:17
last updated: 2 years ago. 03:18
adu oOo github.com/parrot/parrot/tree/00ed...ges/scheme 03:21
found it
[Coke] since I found it, perhaps you could update the wiki page for me to point to the new location.
adu you found pheme, i found scheme/p5
[Coke] nice. 03:22
adu I don't see an edit button
[Coke] are you logged in? 03:26
adu registered
[Coke] FYI, pheme builds but fails immediately at runtime. I'll see if I can resurrect it.
adu I didn't get an email yet, can I still login?
I can do the dirty work
[Coke] eh. rather than fight it, I'd probably settle for opening a github issue at this piont. 03:27
adu I still don't see an edit button 03:29
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[Coke] there's a reason parrot folk don't use trac much anymore. 03:31
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[Coke] ah. github.com/parrot/parrot/wiki/Languages 03:33
pmichaud I bet pheme could be quickly rewritten in nqp or perl6 :-) 03:35
fsvo "quickly" :-) 03:36
afk # sleep or something 03:37
mberends: o/ !!!! 03:38
pmichaud notices a nick he hasn't seen in a while.
mberends pmichaud: hi! thanks for email, will respond after getting enough bandwidth to watch the videos in a day or two :-) 03:40
pmichaud mberends: take your time; glad you got them, hope all is well with you 03:41
mberends yes, and ditto for you. I must also be afk for some hours &
pmichaud same here -- bbl 03:42
afk # sleep or something, again
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[Coke] msg pmichaud I have to rewrite partcl-nqp in nqp before tackling pheme that way 03:45
ETOOMANY bots, he'll get it in backscroll.
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sisar [Coke]: wiki.perl6.org/phenny (re msg ...) 04:06
[Coke] sisar: yes, thank ou. 04:09
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quietfanatic good night #perl6 04:18
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dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 742d0e5 | (John Gabriele)++ | source/ (2 files):
Added links to categorized articles and videos pages on the wiki.
 05:45
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sorear seen pmurias 06:55
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kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people 07:07
moritz \o 07:13
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frettled Goooood moooorning! :) 07:15
tadzik hello hello 07:22
eiro felher, no streaming at all at fpw
no recording for the classrooms 07:23
but i really hope we'll do screencasts after the event
for the moment, i just can't install panda btw ;)
tadzik oh noes 07:26
moritz tadzik: speaking of panda, can you please push your .pod-installing commit to a branch? 07:30
tadzik moritz: oh, sure
dalek nda/pod-installing: 551cdc5 | tadzik++ | / (4 files):
First attempt at installing pod aside .pms and .pirs. Tests work, modules not really
 07:31
tadzik there we are
sorear good morning kresike, frettled, tadzik 07:36
eiro tadzik, it's about a :3000 somewhere in nl
tadzik oh 07:44
yes
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tadzik seems that the Dancer app that was serving the modules list broke :( 07:47
eiro: ok, should be fine now 07:49
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masak *yawn* 08:12
morning, meatbrains.
frettled mmmmeat
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moritz good masak, morning 08:13
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masak They're Made Out Of Meat. www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaFZTAOb7IE 08:13
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masak moritz: I'd like to chime in with the others in congratulating you. warm congratulations and best wishes. 08:13
mberends o/ masak
masak I know this was only a ceremony, and that the paperwork happened two years ago. ;)
mberends!!! \o/ 08:14
moritz masak: thank you. And it wasn't only a ceremony, it was also a really great party :-)
masak sounds wonderful.
masak breaks a bit of fast 08:16
mberends dunno how moritz passed the waltz test. stealth, methinks ;-)
moritz everybody was too polite to point out I failed it, t'was all :-) 08:18
sorear masak!
tadzik hello mberends, masak :) 08:19
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sergot hi o/ 08:19
sorear o/ sergot
mberends dobro jutro, ljudi :)
eiro tadzik, a dancer app ? not a bailador one ? 08:22
tadzik eiro: no, it predates Bailador :) 08:23
but it should be possible for it to run on bailador
eiro tadzik, any source somewhere ?
tadzik it's just that sometimes the response times may reach 10 seconds or so :)
eiro why ?
tadzik eiro: just this: gist.github.com/2953005 08:24
eiro: JSON parsing is still not so fast, for big files as the modules list
although it's well below 10 seconds these days, I think
eiro (i don't use dancer anymore btw: plack is everything i need
tadzik, any NCI for that ? 08:25
tadzik eiro: nope
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eiro well ... that's because you parse all the json at every request 08:29
any way to see the json ?
how is it built ?
tadzik I don't have to do that
I could keep a hash, and rebuild it only if the file is newer than it 08:30
but when I'd have to reload it, that'd take time
eiro got it
tadzik, why not create a json by module ? you don't have to reload the complete database then 08:31
tadzik create json by module?
arnsholt eiro: If you're a bit familiar with C, it might not be too hard to hack together a binding to a C JSON library with Zavolaj
moritz tadzik: I think eiro wants to have many smaller JSON files instead of a big one 08:32
eiro tadzik, yep: i think it's another idea to work on atfpw
moritz, right 08:33
moritz so that one parses a smaller file when talking about a single module
eiro arnsholt, any good docs about it ?
tadzik, i'm pretty sure there no need of json actually
tadzik possibly :)
eiro we can do something way faster and written in perl6
moritz it was probably just the most convenient at that time
sorear eiro: at the same time?
tadzik parsing projects.json apparently takes 1340094565 1340094568 3 3
whatever that means :) 08:34
gist.github.com/2953027
eiro sorear, sorry ?
tadzik so about 3 seconds actually
eiro same of what ?
sorear eiro: california idiom, how to explain... 08:35
eiro: 'written in perl 6' and 'way faster' - both of these are, individually, doable 08:36
eiro oh ... yes! the idea is to write perl6 stuff in perl6 08:38
the json file can be split on little files with 1 info by line: nothing to parse: just aquire IOs 08:39
tadzik oh, mst is coming for fpw
eiro i asume IOs are pretty fast C bindings, so the server can run quickly :)
tadzik, yep :) 08:40
tadzik nope :)
the server is pure perl 6
well, the one that I usually use for bailador
and it's the only one I know of that works with bailador
eiro tadzik, yep but perl6 uses rakudo for IOs and rakudo uses IO syscalls, right ?
so how can this be slow? 08:41
tadzik well, syscalls are not the problem
but things like parsing HTTP headers in perl 6 may not be too fast on rakud'
sorear eiro: syscalls are the only way to do I/O on a Unix system as non-root
masak sorear! \o/ 08:45
sorear masak: how are you? that was a long plane trip! :D
masak heh. 08:47
parts of London had good wifi, but I didn't have an urgent need to check in on all y'all.
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arnsholt eiro: The Zavolaj docs are pretty good, yeah 08:51
There's also the test suite, which is pretty simple
And if all else fails, you can ask me =) 08:52
moritz one can also look at DBIish for examples 08:53
arnsholt Quite
And this reminds me that I should try to get back to getting strings in structs working 08:59
eiro re
sorear, yep! so this part is fast. storing a simple line into a scalar must be fast also (i assume=
it come slow when it comes to parsing 09:00
arnsholt Maybe I can find some of those tuits in the couch...
eiro i don't like DMBS ... perhaps a redis client must be more usefull
sorear You'd be suprised what things aren't fast in current p6 impls 09:01
There's a lot of hidden logic in an assignment statement
eiro arnsholt, i'll test
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moritz though scalar assignment is done in C in Rakudo, and shouldn't be too slow ;-) 09:06
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eiro tadzik, 09:07
gist.github.com/2953133
ok then.. my question is: honestly: what is the current possible daily usage of perl6 ? 09:08
tadzik eiro: huh, when did that happen 09:10
I think it's also now possible to write the bootstrap.pl in pure perl 6, since we have 'use lib' now 09:11
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dalek ecza/non-bootstrap: 904e349 | sorear++ | lib/ (2 files):
Actions pt 15
 09:16
sorear sleep& 09:17
frettled sleep: missing operand
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masak sleep well, sorear. dream of the conjunction of 'written in perl6' and 'way faster'. 09:31
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eiro tadzik, it happens when i launch boostrap.sh 10:07
sorry to not investigate myself 10:08
no time
bootstrap.pl++
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dalek kudo/no-strict: a9401fb | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
parse "no strict"
 10:26
moritz that didn't work out the way I wanted it to. Good thing it's in a branch :-) 10:28
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masak .oO( good thing it's a DAG and none of the commit paths is special ) 10:34
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 11:00
masak good am, pm. 11:06
mberends o/ pmichaud
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tadzik \o 11:07
masak tadziku! \o/ 11:09
is le finals hunting season over?
tadzik ba 11:13
it just starts today
the last exam is on the day I depart to FPW
I'm tired with all this
mberends feels for tadzik: prevail, dude! 11:16
tadzik I shall :)
I have high enough grade average from the previous semesters, but this one is a disaset
* disaster
masak empathizes 11:18
tadzik on the brighter side, it's possible that I'd be doing a Perl 6 Lightning Talk on today's Warsaw Ruby Users Group meeting :P 11:19
timotimo convert all the ruby users :]
masak if what some Ruby people say is true and Perl 6 is just Ruby, then conversion is a no-op :P 11:20
tadzik okay, gotta go to my exam & 11:22
masak good luck
tadzik thanks
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UncleFester6 phenny: tell flussence I bumped my swap space up by 2 gig and the build failed the same way 11:32
phenny UncleFester6: I'll pass that on when flussence is around.
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felher eiro: okay, thanks :) 11:38
phenny felher: 00:59Z <pmichaud> tell felher there was a camera in the room with my first talk; I have no idea if the video was recorded or when it might appear. Maybe ping the YAPC::NA organizers :-)
felher pmichaud: okay, thanks :)
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timotimo i'm also interested in the recording of the first talk 11:38
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pmichaud istr someone saying there was trouble with the audio in the first talk, though... I guess we'll have to wait and see what gets published. 11:39
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pmichaud maybe I can get my local .pm group to let me give the talks for recording :) 11:42
masak sounds like something a local .pm group could potentially be persuaded to do, yes ;)
jnthn, dangit, we need a local .pm group! 11:43
awwaiid where you at, masak?
pmichaud it's been a long time since our .pm group met, although a subset of our group meets monthly. But we don't meet in a place that would be conducive to presentations or videography
masak awwaiid: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scania
awwaiid nice 11:44
masak feels like living right next door to the European continent.
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awwaiid considering that it appears to actually _be_ right next door to the European continent... 11:46
masak well, geographical location is one thing. but the bridge really helps, too. 11:47
Moukeddar Hi masak :)
pmichaud masak: is it challenging to meet up with copenhagen.pm, ooc?
masak pmichaud: not really. great idea. 11:48
Moukeddar! \o/
sjn \o 12:00
!seen jnthn
or not? 12:01
pmichaud phenny seen jnthn
phenny: seen jnthn
bah
seen jnthn 12:02
ENOALOHA
sjn pmichaud: any news on your side about the hague application? 12:03
pmichaud anyway, jnthn++ was last seen 5 days, 12 hours ago
sjn hm
pmichaud sjn: no news here, no.
sjn pmichaud: we *have to* know at absolutely latest on monday 12:04
pmichaud sjn: yes, I know. I'll be working on trip stuff later today.
right now I have to get $kid to $school -- bbiaw
sjn ook
pmichaud (maybe check with krunen and see where things stand on that end?) 12:05
masak pmichaud: IIRC, jnthn was with friends until Sunday and then went back to Sweden for $course.
sjn pmichaud: I've checked with krunen, thanks
but I'm kinda trusting you guys to figure out this
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dalek kudo/no-strict: 27b55b5 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
remove arglist parsing for now; it does not work
 12:21
moritz $ ./perl6 -e 'no strict; $x'
Can only use get_who on a SixModelObject
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masak when you go MOP, error messages start sounding like philosophy. 12:26
moritz it seems it doesn't appreciate my mucking with $*UNIT_OUTER
flussence pre-emptive "argh" 12:27
phenny flussence: 11:32Z <UncleFester6> tell flussence I bumped my swap space up by 2 gig and the build failed the same way
moritz masak: you mean like "Cannot compose A, because it's not composable"?
masak moritz: mostly meant that 'get_who' sounds kinda ponderous. 12:28
moritz masak: though note that it's not get_how (which would be meta)
masak I wouldn't consider "Cannot X A, because it's not X-able" an informative error message.
or rather, it says the same thing twice. 12:29
moritz r: class A { }; class B does A { }
p6eval rakudo ddfb9f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤B cannot compose A because it is not composable␤»
masak "Tried to X A, but A isn't X-able [so it didn't work]" is fine.
pmichaud "Once again, you've asked for the impossible, and while I can normally provide it, in this case I'm not ready to do that." 12:31
moritz pmichaud++
masak "We only provide synthetic imposibilities, not analytical ones." 12:33
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[Coke] is p6eval setup in any special way in regards to pugs? 12:36
extra env vars or something?
moritz has no idea, and takes a look 12:37
cmd_line => "PUGS_SAFEMODE=true LC_ALL=en_US.ISO-8859-1 $home/Pugs.hs/Pugs/pugs %program",
masak that would explain why Pugs has encoding problems. 12:39
moritz I added that specifically because pugs had encoding problems, and at that time it solved them 12:40
masak ah.
[Coke] there's no one right LC_ALL setting, it seems, and without it, locally, I get errors from decodeUTF8' . will continue poking. 12:41
dalek kudo/nom: d4c8e6d | moritz++ | src/core/ (2 files):
more exception typos

caught by Nick Glencross		 12:45
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masak sisar! \o/ 12:48
sisar masak: hey !
12:49 mikemol joined
sisar it seems we had overlapping period of absence from #perl6 (first two weeks of June) 12:49
masak no, I was actually absent. 12:50
sisar though I was not on vacation :|
masak oh. :/
sisar It was not a good time for me... all I can say is "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger." 12:51
moritz hugs sisar
masak hugs sisar too
that saying always felt like a bit of a last resort to me. 12:52
sisar masak: so July is coming ! Another month of bloogging ?
moritz, masak: thanks
masak sisar: I'll think about it. quite possibly, yes.
sisar yay !
masak it's nice to know someone would like it to happen. 12:53
12:53 Moukeddar left
timotimo oh, more perl6 blogposts? i'd like that 12:54
moritz would love them too. But mewants to see t5 and thus p6cc2011 too
masak I promise to wrap up t5 and p6cc2011 in June. 12:55
moritz s/see/see ... finished/
sisar seems like we had very less perl6 blogs this last month (modulo moritz++'s exception reports and jnthn++'s blogs). But yes, no perl6-learning blogs.
moritz oh, and I want qast and macros!
tadzik is back
moritz and a ponie!
masak so it's a July of introductory Perl 6 material y'all want, then?
sisar and oh, I'm not a teenager anymore. I hope my impulsiveness has somehow magically disappeared :) 12:56
masak because I'm toying with this idea of starting to write about compilers and the act of compiling. but maybe save that for next summer.
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masak sisar: happy belated birthday. 12:56
nr: say 20.base(2)
sisar masak: thank you !
p6eval rakudo ddfb9f, niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«10100␤»
[Coke] wonders how to put a putStrLn into an arbitrary location in haskell code.
moritz sisar++
pmichaud wow, looks like I can get DFW->FRA->SVG->DFW for under $1500 US 12:57
moritz [Coke]: you can't
[Coke] pugs: say 20.base(2)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Int: "&base"␤ at /tmp/Cku41l2LHV line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
sisar moritz: I don't know how I forgot this, but congratulations !
moritz sisar: thanks
masak [Coke]: more LHF :) 12:58
[Coke] bah. I also cannot get ghci to run the debugger on Pugs. hurm. 12:59
moritz [Coke]: thing is, putStrLn is IO, and thus cannot be used in a pure function
[Coke] masak: I am trying to fix the decodeUTF8 issue.
masak [Coke]: is the problem with putting a putStrLn into an arbitrary location in haskell code that of monads and side effects?
[Coke] masak: blank stare.
masak sorry.
[Coke] "compilation error", mostly. ;)
masak what moritz said, instead.
moritz if a function does IO in haskell, it must be reflected in the type signature, and also in the way it's called 13:00
masak putStrLn returns IO, and so it doesn't mix well with things that don't already return IO.
moritz that's both upside and downside of a pure functional language
arnsholt There's a diagnostic function you can use anywhere to print though, isn't there? 13:03
Can't remember what it's called
[Coke] gives up for today.
arnsholt trace
(Hoogle to the rescue)
masak arnsholt++
arnsholt Of course, you might get the string you wanted to print several times, but that's what you get in a non-strict language 13:04
And I have to say I quite like the fact that you can search for a function according to the signature 13:05
masak yes, that's awesome. 13:06
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[Coke] arnsholt: if you speak haskell, do you have any interest in hacking on pugs? 13:12
masak still does, but is constantly time-constrained
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masak "Unit testing [...] is the practice of writing software to check that units of software behave in ways we expect." -- do you agree with this definition? 13:21
masak is writing course slides 13:22
moritz yes
do manual unit tests exist too?
masak I think so, but automated ones are the shit, so manual ones don't get much press. 13:23
manual unit tests would perhaps be necessary if the system included components outside of the reach of the software.
like an actual physical lever or something.
moritz then... robotics to the rescue :-) 13:24
masak heh, was thinking that too :)
moritz two years ago I had an interview with a company that does business software, and they didn't have automated tests 13:29
masak it's far to common, I'm afraid. 13:30
moritz they also had only parts of their code under version control
masak ditto.
sometimes I marvel at the speed some software houses manage to have despite their lack of proper tooling.
arnsholt [Coke]: I speak a tiny amount of Haskell
I've been thinking of looking at Pugs, but my tuit-supply is low ATM, unfortunately 13:31
[Coke] arnsholt: that's more than me, and I've patched pugs. ;)
(tuits) ah, the programmer's lament.
flussence
.oO( two years ago the company I *work at* didn't have automated tests... )
moritz flussence: and you changed that? 13:32
arnsholt moritz: At Opera, the QA department had some amount of manual testing
It turns out that testing a browser is hard in many interesting ways =)
flussence moritz: yes. on my own :)
moritz arnsholt: well, I can imagine that... exactly
arnsholt For example, you can have a bug in the rendering code, such that the screen you -want- to draw is correct, but what's shown on screen isn't 13:33
So you need to get screenshots from the outside. Looking at the application's own framebuffer isn't enough ^_^ 13:34
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moritz oh, fun indeed 13:34
though that sounds more like integration test than unit test
arnsholt Yeah, it's not exactly unit testing
moritz here we are really spoiled; compilers are very easy to test 13:35
masak compilers are input/output filters. filters are ideal for testing, indeed. 13:36
moritz right
masak but we still have to do some integration testing sometimes, with -e and stuff.
moritz aye
masak: did you have a chance to look at my ufo branch yet?
masak ugh, no.
maybe tonight. at the latest on wednesday. 13:37
moritz masak: ok, great
masak um. thursday.
(what day is it?) :)
masak has been on vacation
moritz r: say Date.today
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«2012-06-19␤»
moritz r: say Date.today.day-of-week
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«2␤»
masak :)
moritz r: say <Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday ...>[Date.today.day-of-week] 13:38
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«Tuesday␤»
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masak no, I thought we went with 7 for Sunday. 13:43
masak checks
aye. we did.
moritz says who? 13:44
masak S32/Temporal.
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masak there are arguments for both 0 and 7. we went with 7 because there is a slightly stronger case to be made for it. 13:49
I think feather is lagging quite badly.
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masak train & 14:03
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kresike bye all 14:24
14:24 kresike left
PerlJam
.oO( why do I always think of West Side Story when I see "kresike"? It's probably not even pronounced like "krupke" )
 14:25
14:27 smash joined
smash hello everyone 14:28
colomon o/
TimToady hello smash you wonderful person you!
sorry, for some reason I associate that message with you...
moritz was that something that purl regularly said? 14:29
smash yeap, purl liked that
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sisar ETOOMANYFOO <--- what is this meme/pun ? I don't get it. 14:39
does the 'e' stand for 'error' ? 14:40
moritz sisar: on UNIX there are lots of error codes which are all-caps and start with E
"No such file or directory" is ENOENT
(Error no entry)
huf not anymore, they've all gone treeish
PerlJam huf: heh!
sisar moritz: thanks.
ETOOMANYMEMES 14:41
PerlJam sisar: ENOTENOUGHUNIX
moritz :-) you're welcome
TimToady
.oO(note no ugh unix)
moritz but you usually only see that if you do some C programming
TimToady tries to imagine caveman unix 14:42
unfortunately it's already after breakfast
huf moritz: or you're a sysadmin... 14:43
shitty things often just log some random error code (as the integer) and then you get to use perl to figure out what that error actually was :)) 14:44
moritz huf: but that still gives you 'No such file or directory', not ENOENT
$ perl -wE 'say $! = 1' 14:45
Operation not permitted
huf true, true
quietfanatic always hacked diagnostic messages into Haskell with unsafePerformIO 14:46
masak quietfanatic! \o/ 14:47
quietfanatic masak!
masak hello from a train! :)
quietfanatic Hello from a smokey-smelling hotel room
masak doesn't pretend to know how Smokey smells
quietfanatic Not very good.
masak included free of charge: second-hand smoking from the walls. 14:48
quietfanatic Well hey, can't argue with free ameni*cough cough* 14:49
masak :) 14:50
TimToady it was the last room in town, except for a flop-house several miles down the road and around the corner, and we weren't going to gamble on that
masak nod.
TimToady we were driving into town, and I saw a country club on the nagivator, so I joked "I'll bet there's a golf tournament in town, and all the hotels will be full." 14:51
we got into town, and there's a golf tournament..
and we barely got a room
I get one true prediction in my life, and I waste it on this... 14:52
masak *lol*
masak .oO( hotel in one! ) 14:53
TimToady btw, "nagivator" is not a typo, that's what I call it
[Coke] did a little birdie tell you that awful joke?
masak [Coke]: sigh. that's subpar. :P 14:54
TimToady is teed off that all the good puns are taken
wait, there are no good puns...
quietfanatic should learn to use a real IRC client 14:55
masak I heard a good pun this weekend.
can't remember it right now, though.
I'm quite fond of English/Mandarin hybrid puns at present. 14:56
daxim makes a face like a horse 14:57
TimToady your ma!
masak :)
pmichaud back again
masak pmichaud, you're just in time for the horse jokes.
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TimToady likes to walk into an Indian restaurant and say "Nan desu ka?" 14:58
pmichaud takes horse jokes with a small bit of equine-imity :-)
quietfanatic caught a cold and is a little horse 14:59
best I can do folks
PerlJam quietfanatic: don't give it to the neighbors
quietfanatic That'd be a nightmare 15:00
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TimToady someday some sociologist is going to figure out that its the puns that keep women away, not the loutishness... 15:00
15:00 tokuhirom joined
TimToady or perhaps those are the same thing... 15:01
quietfanatic Don't say that alout
PerlJam quietfanatic: just take some medicine and get plenty of rest and you'll be back in the saddle in no time.
TimToady keep trying...or better yet, don't...
quietfanatic I'll just relax and remain phlegmatic 15:02
TimToady I'm not sanguine about that...
jnthn Good afternoon
jnthn is back
TimToady we'll make you regret that
jnthn uh-oh... 15:03
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jnthn quietly backs away again 15:03
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masak we could keep keep punning for hourse. 15:03
jnthn! \o/
PerlJam
.oO( How do you "gret" something so that you can "regret" it in the future? )
masak PerlJam: I always read that "re" as "backwards in time" (like "regress"), not "repeated action" (like "re-state") 15:04
quietfanatic and we all know 're' involves backtracking
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masak oh man. 15:05
pmichaud oh, I suspect "regret" is the act of repeatedly remembering what you originally gretted. :)
masak quietfanatic: you should hang out here more often :)
jnthn wonders if anything much happened in his absence besides punning :)
TimToady should trot off to the shower now
PerlJam quietfanatic: what masak said. That last one was quite good :)
masak jnthn: we got so low on puns without you, we had to take the reins...
quietfanatic Thanks guys, I'm still studying. 15:06
pmichaud bridles at that last one.
masak remember us when you have more time. 15:08
arnsholt masak: The re- is more repetition than backwards 15:09
PerlJam members again
masak arnsholt: that sounds like quite a blanket statement to me. please delve. 15:10
arnsholt Well, re- is a derivational morpheme, so it's independent meaning is fuzzy at best 15:11
But it does indicate repetition. re-gress for example would be something like "go again" at its base. That is, "go back" 15:12
Which has then been used metaphorically in English
PerlJam all this membering, gressing and gretting weirds me. ;) 15:13
masak oh, ok.
arnsholt++ # knows stuff about etymology
arnsholt Funny enough, regret is apparently the Latin prefix with a Germanic verb
quietfanatic We're disgressing into dismembering the english langauge 15:14
with...um...disgrets.
PerlJam disgret, congret, ingret?
diakopter egrets
arnsholt (gråte in Norwegian, probably something similar in Swedish)
benabik diakopter: No need for the fowl language. 15:15
sisar .ety regress
phenny "late 14c. (n.), 'act of going back,' from L. regressus 'a return,' from regress-, pp. stem of regredi 'to go back,' from re- 'back' (see re-) + gradi 'to step, walk' (see grade (n.))." - etymonline.com
arnsholt Oh, and looking at my dictionary closer, re- has several more meanings, including reverse or backwards movement
masak ooh, .ety
pmichaud progress: to go forward. congress: to go .... backward?
arnsholt con is together
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masak as a seasoned Nomic player, I have full respect for the difficulty in getting anything legislated ;) 15:16
sisar masak: *nod*
PerlJam profit, refit, confit, outfit
pmichaud has a contrary opinion :) 15:17
arnsholt Heh. Not sure how that one is derived
sisar .ety contrary
phenny "mid-14c., from Anglo-Fr. contrarie, from L. contrarius 'opposite, opposed,' from contra 'against' (see contra)." - etymonline.com
masak right. "contra" 15:18
adu I think there should be more guns in congress 15:21
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arnsholt And contra is con-ter which is the negation of con =) 15:24
adu masak: Nomic sounds fun, is it still played?
masak adu: I believe so. 15:25
adu: a bunch of us in Uppsala had an instance running for years.
I'd like to play it again some day. 15:26
adu I wonder if it's possible to write a Nomic server in Perl6
masak yes, but with the caveat that Nomic rules expressed in code has quite a different phenotype to the original legalese Nomic. 15:27
part of the charm of Nomic is that it's actually law running in people's brains, subject to uncertainties and interpretation.
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adu well, the same might be said of MagicTG, but there's an online game for that 15:28
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masak yes, we had a Magic player among us in our instance. 15:31
two, even. 15:32
jnthn irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-06-15#i_5730212 references a sha-1 in the nqp repo. But..."git show" of it here complains its an unknown revision.
masak but I venture to say that not even Magic has the metacircular property.
Nomic does. 15:33
PerlJam jnthn: that's a rakudo SHA1
jnthn oh...
PerlJam jnthn: (which updates the NQP revision)
jnthn ah, I see
It mentioned NQP then gave a sha-1, which logically suggests... ) 15:34
PerlJam I couldn't reproduce the problem though. But I never tried it in a pristine environment.
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masak jnthn: I once saw a PoC search engine that took a SHA-1 as input, and gave a github project back as output ;) 15:36
jnthn There were 7 NQP commits made before the Rakudo revision bump
It'd be really handy if somebody who could reproduce the issue could figure out which one it is. 15:37
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sorear good * #perl6 16:10
moritz \o sorear 16:11
16:13 JimmyZ left
masak good time unit, sorear. 16:21
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harmil Good morrow perl 6 16:43
colomon \o 16:44
colomon just ordered a Raspberry Pi
harmil Have a project in mind for it? 16:45
colomon Mostly just want to have an ARM machine in the house.
make sure my $work software runs on it, etc. 16:46
harmil nice
colomon I'm guessing it won't be able to handle building Rakudo...
harmil Oh no
colomon not enough ram 16:47
I would love to be wrong about that!
harmil But you *might* be able to get it to cross-compile....
Building a x-compile environment for the whole p6 build chain would be … interesting
colomon but probably not ... fun 16:48
harmil Depends on what sets your $?FUN 16:49
jnthn colomon: How much RAM does it have? 16:50
sorear aren't most smartphones ARM?
jnthn! You survived too! :D 16:51
colomon 256 mb
harmil Yeah, so that's a definite cross-compile target
colomon sorear: but most smartphones are not terribly convenient for running Linux.
jnthn sorear: Well, I was taking some time afk to properly rest for some days :)
I'm back now :)
sorear colomon: oh, so your work software requires Linux. nm then. 16:52
16:52 BinGOs left
harmil "work software requires Linux" -> optimizer -> "work" 16:54
colomon sorear: well, Windows will work as well. But as far as I know, no current smartphone OS is really up to it. I'll probably be pushing it to get my stuff working with 256 mb of RAM. (Sigh. I'm sure it could do that back in 1998...)
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[Coke] p6: say ("this" ~~ s/is/at/) # should this work eventually? 18:07
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«Cannot assign to a non-container␤ in sub infix:<=> at src/gen/CORE.setting:11207␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/TTzRu41T9w:1␤␤»
..niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Writing to readonly scalar␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 589 (Cool.subst @ 88) ␤ at /tmp/xA9_CuCVLS line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3917 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CO…
..pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤ unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.20120203/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** Can't locate P…
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[Coke] I think I just made this mistake a few weeks ago. Hurm. 18:07
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[Coke] gist.github.com/2955693 - that segfaults the REPL. whee. 18:14
[Coke] rebuilds.
diakopter [Coke]: there's another error in rt that segfaults after the same error.. I can't remember which one it is 18:16
hm, or maybe we just discussed it here and didn't add the segfault to the ticket
but I do remember it being the same non-container assign error 18:17
so maybe it's that particular error that triggers the segfault upon exiting the repl 18:21
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moritz r: my $x = 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1; 18:23
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: ( no output )
masak feels like Alice in Wonderland
[Coke] phenny: tell masak bot to checkout 14:14 < [Coke]> gist.github.com/2955693 - that segfaults the REPL. whee.
phenny [Coke]: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
18:23 araujo joined
[Coke] diakopter: there we go. ;) 18:23
sorear p6: say eval '+1' x 50
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6, niecza v18-7-ga660099, pugs: OUTPUT«50␤»
sorear p6: say eval '+1' x 500
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6, niecza v18-7-ga660099, pugs: OUTPUT«500␤» 18:24
sorear p6: say eval '+1' x 5000
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moritz r: my $x = 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1 18:24
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6, pugs: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
..niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«5000␤»
rakudo d4c8e6: ( no output )
moritz star: my $x = 1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1+1
p6eval star 2012.05: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 18:25
sorear nice, niecza's eval is actually faster than rakudo's in at least one case :D
n: say eval '+1' x 50000
moritz sorear: :-)
p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
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sorear I'm actually very suprised that pugs times out here. 18:27
o/ masak in wonderland
diakopter aww; we lost the perlesque target during the move
(understandable) 18:30
masak whistles on "One" from "A Chorus Line" 18:34
phenny masak: 18:23Z <[Coke]> tell masak bot to checkout 14:14 < [Coke]> gist.github.com/2955693 - that segfaults the REPL. whee.
masak [Coke]: rebuilding latest nom now.
[Coke] masak++ - diakopter says a similar bug may be pre-reported 18:36
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masak diakopter: URL? 18:36
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[Coke] aw, you can't perlbrew (e.g.) 5.16.0 multiple times with different config opts. 18:37
we aren't sure.
pmichaud jnthn: btw, you might want to take a look at gist.github.com/2950855 18:45
looks like the optimizer goes quadratic or something on long expressions 18:46
jnthn pmichaud: Whoa. 18:47
pmichaud: I...don't see why it should. Will have to profile to get the answer.
pmichaud: If it's not already, probably good to file rakudobug with a link to that gist. 18:48
pmichaud given th elength of the optimize and PIR steps, I'm guessing that the intermediate constants are being held in a serialization context even if they aren't needed. but that's just a guess.
18:48 cggoebel left
pmichaud anyway, yes, I can file a ticket 18:48
18:48 cggoebel joined
pmichaud RT #113754 18:52
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[Coke] IWBNI we could get ticket stuff cc'd in here. 19:04
new ticket, closed ticket...
[Coke] ponders writing an RT bot. I think i still have the CLI docs lying around somewhere...
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PerlJam btw, I won't be able to get to the rakudo release until late Thu evening my time. 19:32
[Coke] infiniteundo.com/post/25326999628/f...about-time 19:33
PerlJam s/There are always 24 hours in a day/There are always 86400 seconds in a day/ :) 19:34
sorear most of that article can be summed up as 'never use civil time for any reason, dumbo' 19:37
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[Coke] "fine, you jerk, it's 3:56!" ? 19:57
tadzik good evening
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sorear good evening tadzik 19:58
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jnthn o/ tadzik 19:58
sorear o/ jnthn 19:59
jnthn o/ sro
er
o/ sorear
...tab completion. You have to hit the right keys *before* <tab> :)
PerlJam: Late release on Thu is fine. I won't get any tuits today, but may be some tomorrow night and more likely on Thursday. 20:00
If so that just means I can tidy more things up pre-release :) 20:01
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rjbs Hey everybody! I have a question. 20:14
moritz hi rjbs. Shoot!
rjbs p5p has had a bit of dicussion lately about valid "punctuation variable" style variable names.
I'm not so concerned about what's valid in an identifier. That's got better guidelines. 20:15
But the question is about non-ASCII counterparts to the variables like $^X and $$ and so on.
I'm curious as to what the Perl6 solutin is.
Sorry, my keyboard has been dropping keys today. At least, I think it's my keyboard and not my fingers..
moritz hm 20:16
flussence p6 uses $*LONGNAME for most things iirc
rjbs I wasn't even sure punctuation variables survived, since there's $*etc
moritz right; we have about 5 "real" punctuation variables
$_, $!, $/ are the most important ones
flussence the worst thing we've got is "$¢", if that's even still around... 20:17
rjbs but $foo¢bar isn't a valid identifier, right?
moritz it is, but you only need that when touching the regex guts
rjbs So there's still some kind of rule about one-char var names?
moritz nr: say so '¢' ~~ /\w/
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6, niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«False␤»
moritz not a valid identifier, no
rjbs: there is a short list of valid one-char var names
rjbs Okay. So it sounds like very sadly I can't steal from p6 here. :) 20:18
moritz $¢, $/, $! are the only ones that fall out of the pattern
rjbs Right now there's a bit of contention becaues Perl 5 is allowing some crazy stuff.
moritz the rest follow rules, like $*PROGRAM_NAME having that * sigil
and the user can make $*identifer-variables too
rjbs like single-char scalars with the names \N{THIN SPACE} or \N{U+D800} or \N{COMBINING CIRCUMFLEX} 20:19
moritz s/sigil/twigil/
rjbs yeah
$* implies globality?
moritz dynamic scoping
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masak does Niecza have enough threading to create interesting effects when the same dynamics-scoped variable is changed in two different threads? 20:22
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sorear masak: yes 20:26
moritz: what's the fifth? 20:27
[Coke] is glad to see rjbs here. I follow p5p halfheartedly, and wonder occasionally if we should offer any "here's how perl 6 does it" nots. 20:28
*nots
*NOTES
rjbs++ # character dropping infectious.
moritz sorear: I was thinking about @_ and %_, but then realized they don't quite fit into the category
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moritz otoh I counted $_ 20:29
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sorear TimToady talks from time to time about @! 20:29
rjbs [Coke]: I'm always interested i how Perl 6 does it, but it's always dangerous for us to think we can copy, because of the fundamental differences. 20:30
moritz sorear: aye. In some sense my exception design so far doesn#t cover the most interesting cases
sorear rjbs: how familiar are you with PL_sawampersand? 20:31
[Coke] rjbs: already had one failure in that area, neh?
rjbs++ # keeping p5 moving.
sorear this just reminded me of a question I had - would I be correct to think that the major part of the penalty is the need to keep a copy of the orig string? 20:32
PerlJam [Coke]: I think that was just premature copying really.
rjbs sorear: a bit
[Coke]: Yeah, although I'm still a bit dubious about ~~ in p6. Too many of the core roles' matches seem arbitrary to me.
but it's definitely saner in p6 20:33
sorear I think there's a sane subset and a "pair the spares" periphery
rjbs Yeah. Felt like there might've been some fill-in-the-box-ism. 20:34
sorear there's nothing particularly sane for $foo ~~ @bar *to* do... imo it should be disallowed, make the user say $foo ~~ any @bar or $foo ~~ all @bar
rjbs Right, that's what I'm hoping to move to in p5.
sorear like we recently disallowed %hash{@slice}:exists 20:35
sorear wonders if that involves adding junctions to p5
rjbs sorear: Perl6::Junction; I use it regularly
moritz rjbs: we still have some design issues with ~~ on Perl 6 too 20:36
rjbs In fact, I should make a patch for ~~ across junctions!
moritz currently $x ~~ m:g/a/ doesn't work by spec
rjbs seen cfranks
moritz our seen bot hasn't been seen for a day or two... I don't know how long exactly :-) 20:37
sorear I do
PerlJam rjbs: so $x ~~ @a would be an error with a nice message that tells them to use Perl6::Junction and such?
(in p5)
rjbs PerlJam: I'm not sure whether it would mention P6::J, but yes. Let me find my proposal.
www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5....74272.html 20:38
If you read through, though, you will find that making it pluggable, as we talked about, led to some complexity. 20:39
so it hasn't happened.
sorear after the current round of niecza refactors I'm hoping to get array regexes in, maybe then we can talk about ditching the nonintuitive Array ~ Array rules
rjbs That'd be cool. I mean, they're certainly not hurting *me* now, but they did seem to be there just to fill in the slot, rather than because they were the obvious behavior. 20:43
PerlJam rjbs: If you keep hanging out here, we may have a "crossing the streams" moment where new features are worked out and both p6 and p5 adopt the appropriate semantics. :-) 20:45
[Coke] someone start working on p5.5 right now. :P
rjbs This is Perl, version 5, revision 500.
[Coke] mmhehehe. 20:46
sorear rjbs: I have heard rumours of a 2-day pre-YAPC::EU event...?
[Coke] r: say (500-16)/2+2012
p6eval rakudo d4c8e6: OUTPUT«2254␤»
[Coke] urks.
flussence
.oO( perl5's versioning scheme isn't y3k-compliant... )
 20:47
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sorear hopefully by y3k we will all have moved to perl 7. 20:48
PerlJam we'll digitally encode our thoughts on the fabric of the universe and the natural expansion will actually execute them. 20:51
rjbs By y3k I hope to be retired and mostly writing Scheme.
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masak by y3k I hope to be doing whatever has replaced programming. 21:05
(some higher-order design/architecture activity, most likely. or something akin to guiding programming bots along as they montecarlo and recombine on their own) 21:07
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rjbs Yeah, I figure my programming in y3k will just be for fun. Like to power my D&D game. 21:29
masak :) 21:30
rjbs I call for a unary operator U+232D that tests a value for its cylindricity.
sorear I try not to figure too much about y3k, there are so many unknown unknowns
.u 232D
phenny U+232D CYLINDRICITY (⌭)
sorear box :|
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quietfanatic knows haskell, FTR. 21:40
for the folks who've been considering reviving pugs
sorear also knows haskell. 21:42
spider-mario so do I, a little 21:43
rjbs What's the purpose of \N{SQUARE GAL}?
geekosaur knows some haskell as well
sorear .u SQUARE GAL
phenny U+33FF SQUARE GAL (㏿)
sorear rjbs: compatibiltiy with CJK character sets and their fill-in-box-sim 21:44
rjbs Oh, I missed the ones above.
all the other SQUARE xyz ones.
sorear we have 94*94 spots in our codepage, we've already encoded a few thousand kanji, let's fill in the rest with Latin, Greek, Cyrillic, and whatever else comes to mind
n: also does Bool:D; 22:06
p6eval niecza v18-7-ga660099: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method CURSOR in type Any␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaActions.pm6 line 3851 (NieczaActions.trait_mod:does @ 6) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1941 (P6.trait_mod:does @ 7) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/sr…
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sorear I thought that looked wrong 22:06
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[Coke] if you want to hack on pugs, I can offer some suggestions on what to look at first. 22:09
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rjbs "this image from comp.basilisk" 22:15
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masak good night, #perl6 22:36
sorear gppd night, masak
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harmil Am I correct that statement-commit (single colon) in a regex has two functions: collapse all extant alternations that currently match to this alternation; prevent future backtracking. Or are those the same thing? 23:17
What I want to say is "rule term { <sub-thing>: | <parenthetical> | <literal> } ; rule sub-thing { '(' ~ ')' [ <?before 'thing'> <thing> ] } ; rule parenthetical { '(' ~ ')' <expr> }" but I'm not sure if that's going to work… 23:21
TimToady no, : only prevents backtracking into teh <sub-thing>. you want :: to commit to <sub-thing>'s LTM match, or ::> to commit to current alternative (not sure if this is implemented) 23:27
or ::: commits the current rule to this path 23:28
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TimToady phở & 23:32
harmil Ok, thanks TimToady 23:44
I have to say, :$x parameter passing and hash construction is so amazingly nice. I find myself doing this all the time: sub foo($a, $b, $c) { bar(:z<1>, {:$a, :$b, :$c}) } 23:45
Even in Perl 5, that's much, much more cumbersome. In Python it's downright annoying. 23:46
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