»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 05:35
I made it home okay, and I should be able to do the Star release later today (08/31). 05:36
afk, sleep 05:44
sorear good morning, #pmicaud 05:46
pmichaud
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moritz \o 05:55
phenny moritz: 30 Aug 23:08Z <japhb> tell moritz Browsing over the KidsRuby GitHub info, it looks like we could build a Perl 6 clone using essentially the same technologies. Looks more or less straightforward, but some of the libraries involved will have quite large bindings, so definitely a good test of Zavolaj and a fair amount of work. But at least the path forward is well lit. :-)
dalek ast: 81d488a | moritz++ | packages/Test/Util.pm:
remove outdated #OK comment, japhb++
 05:57
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Woodi morning everyone :) 06:16
sorear o/ 06:17
Woodi sorear: o/ 06:19
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Woodi I yesterday learned something about SSI programming www.akkadia.org/drepper/summit09-stream.pdf and examples are for data in arrays/vectors... do v6 specs was thinked for such uses ? 06:25
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Woodi ehmm, s/SSI/SSE/ 07:07
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kresike good morning all you happy perl6 people 07:24
tadzik hello there kresike :) 07:25
kresike tadzik, o/
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tadzik how are you doing? 07:26
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dalek c: 018e939 | (Felix Herrmann)++ | lib/variables.pod:
[variables] fix example of suberseding $~Regex (samlh++)
 07:42
felher suberseding ... 07:43
felher sure needs caffeine 07:44
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kresike tadzik, working ... tired ... sleepy, You ? 07:58
tadzik just working, maybe a bit underslept, but I find it hard to remember the last time I properlyslept :) 08:01
kresike I know exactly the last time I properly slept :) 7 weeks and 1 day ago ... 08:03
tadzik oh
hold on, you got a child that long ago? :)
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kresike Yep :) 08:04
tadzik haha, congratulations :)
kresike not much sleep since
thanks
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jnthn morning o/ 08:11
kresike morning jnthn o/ 08:12
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felher morning jnthn o/ 08:22
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moritz kresike++ # congratulations 09:35
kresike thanks moritz
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FROGGS nr: say time.WHAT 09:44
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
..rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
tadzik :) 09:48
pugs: say time.WHAT 09:50
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«Rat()␤»
tadzik yapsi: say 1
:( 09:51
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sergot hi o/ 09:58
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tadzik hello sergot 10:00
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tadzik moritz: on which server(s) does p6eval run? 10:10
ISTR it's built on one of them and then copied into another
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moritz tadzik: it builds on feather1 and runs on feather3 10:12
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tadzik so feather3 is the lightweight one, and feather1 is the one we're all ircing from, si? 10:25
sergot and me want to run the Perl 6 powered modules.perl6.org, + possibly emmentaler in a similar way
moritz correct
tadzik time to contact Juerd I guess 10:26
or just put all the things on feather1 for now 10:27
sergot: do you have an account here?
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moritz tadzik: I can give you an account on feather3 if necessary 10:29
sergot tadzik: no, I don't :)
tadzik moritz: no rush, seems that we can pretty much put it on feather1 for now 10:32
like the modules API sits
sergot: time to get one, I think :)
moritz tadzik: when you have something running, I can also set up a proxy that internally rewrites something.perl6.org to a feather1 address 10:33
tadzik moritz: that'll prove useful, thanks 10:35
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sergot tadzik: how? :) 10:42
tadzik sergot: contact Juerd. I think there're instructions on feather.perl6.nl
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tadzik or maybe not 10:43
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sergot tadzik: ok, thanks. :) 10:52
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moritz www.mail-archive.com/perl6-language...20060.html 10:57
those are the instructions for getting an account
Juerd admits that most requests end up in my mailbox, unread 11:05
It often takes a month or even longer :| 11:06
If there's anyone who would like to create accounts on feather, please let me know.
moritz Juerd: I would 11:07
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Juerd moritz: Please go ahead if anyone asks. I'll need username, email address and real name per new account. 11:40
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moritz Juerd: per email? 11:48
Juerd Preferred
Can I forward some requests to you?
moritz sure 11:52
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Juerd moritz: At which email address? 11:54
moritz Juerd: [email@hidden.address]
Juerd Okay :) 11:55
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Kharec hi guys 12:12
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skids o/ 12:16
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moritz \o 12:48
Kharec o/
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takadonet morning all 13:13
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diakopter hi o/ 13:16
colomon \o 13:17
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grondilu Guys, check out this video youtu.be/-Djj6pfR9KU and tell me how you'd write a short program to find out brown numbers. 13:36
GlitchMr Just wondering, does Perl 6 have negative zero? 13:38
tadzik that's easy to check 13:40
GlitchMr perl6: print atan2 0.Num, -0e0
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«3.14159265358979»
..niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«3.1415926535897931»
GlitchMr It seems it exists
perl6: printf '<%g>', -0e0 13:41
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«<0>»
..rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«<-0>»
GlitchMr Uhmmm... what should be result of this?
Kharec The first result seems to be Pi ?
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grondilu p6: say 0**0 13:42
p6eval rakudo 231137, niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«1␤»
GlitchMr But negative zeros exist only for Num type, right?
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japhb Congratulations, kresike! Is this your first? 13:46
kresike yes
thanks
japhb Welcome to the club. :-)
kresike :)
a pretty large club I might say :)
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japhb Makes me wonder what percentage of currently alive humanity is in that club ... 13:48
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cognominal p6: say 'aaa' ~~ m:g/a/ 13:59
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«False␤»
..niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Regex modifier g not yet implemented at /tmp/dA0amvxSzV line 1:␤------> say 'aaa' ~~ m:g⏏/a/␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1435 (die @ 5) ␤ at /ho…
cognominal how m:g is supposed to work in Perl 6? 14:00
colomon kresike++ 14:01
cognominal there is not much material in S05 about that
kresike :) 14:02
moritz cognominal: with magic 14:05
cognominal: our current smart matching system doesn't allow it to work
cognominal p6: my @a = 'aaa'.match: /a/, :g ; say @a.perl
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to Cool.match, unused named g␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (Cool.match @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/9MoqYnfVG_ line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4138 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6e…
..rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Array.new(Match.new(orig => "aaa", from => 0, to => 1, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "aaa", from => 1, to => 2, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()), Match.new(orig => "aaa", from => 2, to => 3, ast => Any, li…
cognominal that's better 14:06
sounds like some wiring is missing to make m:g// work but that the bulk of the work has been done 14:07
FROGGS go make that wiring :P 14:08
cognominal :) 14:09
moritz cognominal, FROGGS: perlgeek.de/blog-en/perl-6/three-fu...match.html explains why it can't be done in the current setup of smartmatchin
cognominal moritz++
FROGGS reads 14:10
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[Coke] hurls boingboing.net/2012/08/29/t-shirt-d...vs-du.html for rjbs 14:19
moritz github.com/perl6/specs/issues/23 # input welcome 14:27
FROGGS ya, my first thought was the dot too 14:30
tadzik input'd 14:31
FROGGS thats pretty unsafe, isnt it? 14:32
tadzik hm 14:33
moritz my concerns with the dot is that it'll lead to people writing things like require "./$filename" just to ensure there's a dot in it
and then it'll fail for absolute paths
jnthn require 'ThisIsAPath'.IO; # ? 14:35
colomon you can always add /./ in the middle of a path, no?
tadzik jnthn: +1
colomon isn't there a quoting operator for paths? 14:36
moritz jnthn: .path, not .IO. Otherwise +1
colomon thinks jnthn is definitely on the right trail...
tadzik bah, I accidentally my comment 14:37
moritz should I delete mine too? 14:38
tadzik I put it below
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FROGGS damn 15:00
I reject my pull request since now does exactly what I wanted time to do 15:01
nr: say now
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Instant.new(...)␤»
..rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Instant:1346425317.946087␤»
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tadzik but shouldn't time do the floating point per spec? 15:02
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FROGGS see this: github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master...mporal.pod 15:03
I read older specs before, these doesnt tell you what it returns
the one I posted does
so niecza does it wrong 15:04
[Coke] nr: say now.WHAT 15:05
p6eval rakudo 231137, niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Instant()␤»
[Coke] they both return an instant. what's the problem?
FROGGS niecza gives you time as a Num, but it should be Int 15:06
nr: say time.WHAT
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
..rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Int()␤»
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FROGGS n: print now 15:07
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Instant()<instance>»
FROGGS how do I get it to print the seconds?
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[Coke] n: print +now 15:11
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot use value like Instant as a number␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 293 (Any.Numeric @ 6) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /tmp/IDKozpItew line 1 (mainline @ 3)…
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[Coke] n: print now.^methods 15:12
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method methods in type ClassHOW␤ at /tmp/0N57h0OCnx line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4138 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4139 (module-CORE @ 571) ␤ at …
[Coke] n: print now.HOW.methods
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method methods in type ClassHOW␤ at /tmp/NWSUGOwRz8 line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4138 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4139 (module-CORE @ 571) ␤ at …
JimmyZ r: say now.^methods 15:14
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«new from-posix to-posix Bridge Num Int Rat abs sign conj sqrt rand sin asin cos acos tan atan atan2 sec asec cosec acosec cotan acotan sinh asinh cosh acosh tanh atanh sech asech cosech acosech cotanh acotanh floor ceiling round unpolar cis Complex log exp truncate…
FROGGS n: say now.Num 15:15
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method Num in type Instant␤ at /tmp/IcT1nSebtS line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4138 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4139 (module-CORE @ 571) ␤ at /home…
[Coke] n: say now.to-posix 15:16
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«1346426171.3581679 False␤»
[Coke] niecza source: boot/lib/CORE.setting -> "class Instant"
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kresike bye folks 15:32
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pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:33
FROGGS hi
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[Coke] pmichaud: hio 15:33
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moritz \o pmichaud 15:56
japhb moritz, does doc.perl6.org have any facility for CGI? 15:58
jnthn hi, pmichaud o/
hope your trip back went fine
pmichaud it did... was just long 16:02
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jnthn *nod* 16:05
[Coke] pmichaud: ah, that's why your schedule has seemed a little off this week! 16:09
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pmichaud [Coke]: yes; I just got back from .eu last night 16:10
[Coke] \o/ 16:13
pmichaud anyway, I'm afk, lunch 16:14
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japhb tadzik, ping 16:20
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japhb Open question: How much stylistic similarity do we want between perl6.org and its subdomains? There's a scale there from "styled independently" through "share a common base style, but tweaked for each subdomain" to "use a single, unified style sheet". Also, what about related domains, like the sites for each implementation? Note BTW that I am *NOT* assuming perl6.org's current design will remain unchanged (in fact, it will have to chang 16:27
e somewhat to accomodate changes like snippets on the front page).
For example, one might say that the main perl6.org remains playful and inviting, while doc.perl6.org goes more sober and efficient, but they share similar fonts, borders, etc. 16:28
tadzik japhb: pong\
japhb tadzik, Is it expected that C< > doesn't work in Pod table cells? 16:29
I'm wondering if it's being parsed wrong, or being rendered wrong.
tadzik japhb: no, it's not parsed right 16:30
known bug
japhb Ah, OK, thank you.
japhb wonders what to do for a workaround ... hmmm.
Is that going to be true of any inline markup in a table?
tadzik that should be fixed 16:32
I just dunno how do it sanely
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jnthn r: class A { has $.a; has @.a; } 16:40
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two or more attributes declared that both want an accessor method 'a'␤»
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[Coke] HIGHLANDER ATTRIBUTES! 16:42
dalek c: f1eb292 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | htmlify.pl:
Minor regularization of status messages from htmlify.pl
 16:43
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sorear japhb: I want a maximum of stylistic consistency, it will help to make perl6.org feel less like a link farm to the end user 16:44
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japhb sorear, you mean because all of the subdomains and related domains will look like parts of the whole, thus making it feel like one big website instead of several smaller ones? 16:48
sorear yes
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japhb sorear, OK, thank you. 16:49
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japhb tadzik, Is there a workaround for Pod verbatim blocks getting split at the first line without non-whitespace? I thought at first it might be splitting on the first empty line, or the first line with less whitespace than the current indent, but adding whitespace to empty lines did not help. :-( 16:52
tadzik oh hm 16:53
you can probably go for =begin code, =end code
japhb OK, will try 16:54
tadzik I have a feeling that PARROT_ARGS in Makefile not worky 16:57
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moritz japhb: common theme, but tweaked per sub domain 17:01
japhb tadzik, Great, =begin code works
tadzik jnthn: I CAN HAS Unrecognized nqp:: opcode 'nqp::ishash' at line 41, near " {\n "
when compiling rakudo on toqast
japhb: good
japhb moritz, what about related domains, like Rakudo's?
jnthn tadzik: Are you compiling the nqpqast branch of Rakudo? 17:02
tadzik jnthn: aye
jnthn And latest nqp/toqast?
moritz japhb: re CGI, we have a full apache installation, and can make anything happen that doesn't eat too much memory
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tadzik jnthn: yep, freshly 17:03
moritz japhb: related domains... no idea about rakudo.org, probably depends on what kind of style we can offer for it. In the end pmichaud++ decides about it
jnthn tadzik: Oddness...it builds fine here with both of those.
japhb tadzik, C<< > >> Seems to not DTRT. Known bug, or should I use something else?
tadzik japhb: yep, NYI
quite high on my list tho
moritz C<< >> NYI is known
jnthn tadzik: Can you check what revisions you are on in each branch, and then give me the dtailed backtrace? 17:04
moritz too slow
japhb tadzik, moritz, OK, thank you.
jnthn tadzik: I recognize the error but it looks like the one you'd get from building rakudo/nqpqast with nqp/master
japhb tadzik, when you do that, could you also make French quotes work too?
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tadzik jnthn: probably 17:05
jnthn: ...you didn't merge nqp/toqast with nqp/master?
that'll explain it :) 17:06
moritz jnthn: iirc I got that error in a test file in nqp on nqp/toqat
tadzik also the fact that tests passes
and that it didn't segfault :)
jnthn tadzik: no, not yet ;-) 17:07
moritz: Right, that also :)
I de-pir::-ified some of the tests
but nqp::ishash was not supported by pre-QAST NQP.
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dalek p/toqast: a94c294 | jnthn++ | src/NQP/Actions.pm:
Fix an $/ handling issue, which fixes two more of the Rakudo spectest file regressions.
 17:08
kudo/nqpqast: 44f06cf | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Update a workaround for a bug (that needs a proper fix).
 17:09
kudo/nqpqast: 6c8ef80 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/AttributeContainer.pm:
Fix subtly buggy code that used to work for entirely the wrong reason. Deals with another regression.
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japhb moritz, Did I miss your response on my question of CGI on doc.perl6.org? Also, what about www.perl6.org? 17:10
moritz 19:02 < moritz> japhb: re CGI, we have a full apache installation, and can make anything happen that doesn't eat too much memory 17:11
japhb moritz, I had a feeling I'd missed it!
moritz and is reasonable to maintain etc
japhb Thank you. OK, is there a cgi-bin already?
moritz no
what are you planning?
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japhb moritz, At the moment I was mostly determining my constraints ... but the first problems I was thinking about were: server-side doc search (for non-JS users), smart(er) guesses about which doc to show for non-exact matches, server-side backing for code snippet display, etc. 17:14
moritz japhb: great, those all sound like worthwhile goals
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felher Can a Pod formatting code block contain other Pod blocks (besides other formatting codes?) 17:18
tadzik er
Spec used to say that
moritz I think it's insane
tadzik ISTR that we removed that because insanity :)
moritz instead we should have a way to apply formatter-like modifiers to blocks 17:19
=begin :I ... =end :I
to make an all-italic block
tadzik yeah, that was the conclusion I think :)
felher okay. So formatting codes used to be able to contain anything but it was changed to be more sane? :) 17:20
moritz felher: the more sane option was not to implement that part (during gsoc at least)
felher moritz: ah, i see. Okay :)
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arnsholt japhb: Re: scrollback, a thorough stress-test of Zavolaj would be awesome 17:28
Let, the bugreports begin! =) 17:29
[Coke] I am creeped out that someone is asking about a cgi-bin in 2012. :P 17:31
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japhb arnsholt, heh. Well, I don't know if *I* will be writing that code (dang $day_job ...), but I agree it's quite worthy. :-) 17:31
frettled [Coke]: why? :)
frettled is a bit surprised at the directory separation thingy, but whatever. 17:32
japhb [Coke], what would you prefer, that I convince moritz to host a Mojolicious instance? :-)
frettled, ?
[Coke] japhb: yes, I'd prefer that.
the perl6 one, preferentially. ;) 17:33
japhb [Coke], sadly he did say he wanted low memory usage ... :/
frettled japhb: separating into a directory named cgi-bin is a bit unnecessary in this century, but it is rather quaint 17:34
moritz japhb: I think mojoclicious might be fine 17:35
japhb Well, my apologies to moritz++ that I misread. I had definitely gotten the feeling that old school was desired.
moritz japhb: I just don't want to run 5 rakudo instances in parallel, or something like that
old scholld is not necessary. Maintainable and not too wasteful on resources is needed 17:36
*school
japhb Well OK then. That makes things surprisingly easier. :-)
japhb takes a step back to consider a much wider range of possible architectures. 17:37
arnsholt japhb: I'd be happy to help out with some of the Zavolaj hacking. But yeah, dang $work getting in the way =) 17:38
[Coke] I'd be happy with some perl5 mojo in the mean time, and would be happy to contribute code, and help convert to 6mojo when possible.
17:38 BlueT_ left
__sri what's the state of non-blocking I/O? :) 17:38
japhb is >.< that 6mojo is not easy at this point, but waddyagonnado besides keep hacking ...?
leont __sri: see MuEvent 17:39
__sri MuEvent is unusable
leont It's very limited by Parrot
__sri polling every socket individually just doesn't work 17:40
leont agrees, it's just that some interfacing with a c library is going to be required to do this well
libuv may be a good target
__sri nods
japhb has been reading the libuv docs over the last few days with that in mind 17:41
__sri if rakudo had really cheap threads we could also get away with blocking I/O
japhb Anyone know the state of the threads merge in Parrot? Last I heard it was "soon" 17:42
leont Yeah, but I'm having the impression parrot threads are rather similar in costs to perl 5 threads
__sri eeep
leont They're still interpreter threads 17:43
japhb: ask nine on #parrot, he's doing that work 17:44
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tadzik jnthn: not my fault \o/ 17:47
wanna see a patch that fixes those tests?
gist.github.com/3556432 :) 17:48
jnthn tadzik: Oh, I fixed it in the NQP patch a few moments ago 17:53
japhb: I got a build of libuv done on my laptop at the hackathon and started reading through the docs also.
17:53 BlueT_ left
japhb jnthn, excellent 17:53
jnthn And sketched a little code. Didn't get anything interesting running just yet.
17:54 cognominal joined
japhb whiteknight in #parrot says that the initial threads implementation should merge on Tuesday. They expect to then work on tuning it, but that (given that it is a hybrid tasks/threads implementation), they should be able to get medium-to-light virtual threads spread across several OS threads. 17:55
colomon jnthn: Any notion how hard it would be to implement "lift"? It would be very handy for Math::Polynomial... 17:59
jnthn colomon: Maybe not too bad. I guess we have CALLER:: support 18:01
colomon jnthn: who do I have to bribe? ;)
pmichaud back from lunch
jnthn Bribe Pm! ;)
pmichaud anyone have any comments on the rc3 star candidate before I start publishing it? 18:02
jnthn pmichaud: I could try a build of it on this box if you wish.
[Coke] it should be blue.
pmichaud jnthn: that would be helpful. I'm about to build the .msi here on my box;.
*box.
jnthn pmichaud: url? 18:03
colomon [Coke]: but should it be nasally-fitted?
pmichaud pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-20...rc3.tar.gz
18:03 GlitchMr left
[Coke] colomon++∞ 18:04
jnthn pmichaud: Kicked off a build 18:05
18:06 BlueT_ joined
jnthn pmichaud: With --gen-parrot it build an NQP and Parrot fine and also told me to next run "nmake" 18:12
pmichaud: However, during Configure it did also emit:
'make' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
pmichaud oh.
jnthn It's harmless almost certainly.
Just a tiny bit distracging.
pmichaud checks.
jnthn *distracting
18:13 lichtkind left
pmichaud I'll go ahead and fix that now. 18:15
jnthn heh, the QAST NQP seems to have fixed a bug that in turn hid a bug in the Rakudo grammar :)
18:15 BlueT_ left, thou left
jnthn And the fix was the copy-pasting from STD :D 18:16
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dalek kudo/nqpqast: f962cf8 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Grammar.pm:
Fix $< parsing (just replace what we had before with what STD has). Fixes the S05 failures.
 18:18
jnthn pmichaud: Ah, a real fail:
Cannot chmod 755 modules/rakudo-debugger/perl6-debug.exe:No such file or directo
ry at C:/Perl64/lib/ExtUtils/Command.pm line 274.
NMAKE : fatal error U1077: 'C:\Perl64\bin\perl.exe' : return code '0x2'
Stop. 18:19
pmichaud okay.
did it not build?
jnthn It build
er, hm 18:20
It ran pbc_to_exe
pmichaud I'm building on my box too so maybe I'll find the error here as well. 18:21
mucker ok, i have rakudo compiled and running. now, how do i run the test suite(roast) using rakudo ? 18:22
jnthn mucker: make spectest
pmichaud or make "rakudo-spectest" if using a star distribution.
mucker is the process same for niecenza ?
colomon mucker: yes, make spectest 18:23
mucker thnkx
jnthn pmichaud: I can't find the .pir and .pbc, let alone the .exe
pmichaud jnthn: for rakudo-debugger?
jnthn yeah 18:24
pmichaud could be that my make rules aren't windows-aware
looking.
jnthn pmichaud: Trying "nmake" again does nothing
pmichaud that's commonly true
jnthn And nmake clean tries to use "make" 18:25
pmichaud repeating "nmake" often doesn't do anything, because we don't have every file tracked in the makefile (and doing so would be a huge pain)
jnthn (maybe related to the issue earlier)
pmichaud I fixed the nmake clean bug already. :-)
jnthn ah, makes sense.
ok, nice
18:26 mucker left
dalek ar: c4268e0 | pmichaud++ | tools/ (2 files):
Replace some 'make' with '$(MAKE)' (jnthn++)
 18:26
pmichaud jnthn: you could try "nmake modules-install" and see if it attempts the rakudo-debugger build again. 18:27
(I ended up putting the debugger as a module, for a variety of reasons.)
18:27 lichtkind joined
jnthn it's running 18:29
pmichaud: hmm, I don't see it being built again. 18:31
pmichaud okay, I'll try here and see what I can come up with.
jnthn pmichaud: Oh,hm 18:32
pmichaud: And it does try to build modules/rakudo-debugger/lib/Debugger/UI/CommandLine.pm
Before ANSI::TermColor is built
pmichaud yes, it'll build the libs, but the rakudo debugger binary is a separate step
jnthn but it builds the lib too early 18:33
Oh
Watching how fast it claims to have built it...I can't believe it really did so
My suspicion is that it fails silently
pmichaud make 'nmake perl6-debug-install' 18:34
s/make/maybe/
now that my brain is waking up, I remember that modules-install only installs the libs, but doesn't compile the executable
jnthn Also failed silently.
OK
tadzik jnthn: huh, hm
jnthn It still tries to build the lib too early though. 18:35
pmichaud what is "too early" in this case?
jnthn Before Term::ANSIColor, which it depends on. 18:36
pmichaud Term::ANSIColor is supposed to be built long before rakudo-debugger
it's #6 in the modules/MODULES.txt file
whereas rakudo-debugger is last
jnthn It's odd 18:37
It build the rakudo-debugger executable last
pmichaud that's normal.
jnthn As in, the NQP bit
pmichaud that's normal.
jnthn But it builds the thing in lib/ first
LIke, as part of module-install.
pmichaud that's correct.
jnthn Yes, by first I mean, before any other module. 18:38
pmichaud okay, that's odd.
you mean, it does rakudo-debugger/lib before any other module?
jnthn Correct
After the docs.
pmichaud using what make target?
jnthn But before NativeCall
It did it with nmake install when I tried that originally
And it does it when I nmake modules-install 18:39
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pmichaud is nmake perhaps trying to parallelize the build? 18:39
jnthn Shouldn't be.
Seems not. 18:40
pmichaud it all seems to be working fine for me here (using gmake)
jnthn What does the output look like for you when you make modules-install?
pmichaud doing that now 18:41
jnthn hm, I also get:
Can't stat modules/#/lib: No such file or directory at tools/build/module-install.pl line 21
AT some point during modules-install :)
pmichaud okay, so make modules-install for me 18:43
1. cd rakudo && make install (installs perl6.exe and modules from rakudo compiler)
2. == Installing 'ufo' 18:44
3. Errors about installing '#'
== Instaling 'zavolaj'
jnthn gist.github.com/3557195
That's what I get
Notice something really odd happens
pmichaud note that Term::ANSIColor is installed on line 62 of that output. 18:45
jnthn huh 18:46
then later on it tries to do everything again
pmichaud ...?
jnthn that top bit of output scross by really fast
pmichaud tries to do everything again?
what line?
jnthn See from line 282 onwards
pmichaud that's not installing everything again -- that's precompiling the installed modules. 18:47
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jnthn oh! 18:47
18:47 BlueT_ joined
jnthn jnthn-- 18:47
OK, then it seems it is doing the right thing with modules 18:48
pmichaud there could be a message there saying "precompiling installed modules" though -- that would help. :)
jnthn Apparently. ;-) 18:49
pmichaud can you do the equivalent of make modules/rakudo-debugger/perl6-debug.exe ?
(I've since added a 'perl6-debug' target, but it's not in the rc3 tarball.) 18:50
or you can just do 'make perl6-debug-install'
skids r: sub a ($b --> Int) { fail("oops") unless $b == 2; $b; }; a(2).say; a(1); 18:52
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«2␤Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Failure'␤ in sub a at /tmp/PknV_q94S4:1␤ in block at /tmp/PknV_q94S4:1␤␤»
skids That seems to be new with latest tarball.
(since 07 star)
moritz skids: yes, it's new that type constraints with --> are honored
pmichaud but fail should bypass a type constraint
moritz previously only 'returns' was honored
jnthn pmichaud: trying it 18:54
skids Also I have a few files where I've got a bunch of messy and probably wrong export directives, which ran under 07 star. Now they give: Method 'scope' not found for invocant of class 'QAST::Op'
pmichaud so the --> Int listed above is a rakudobug
moritz pmichaud: it is, and known 18:55
(RT'ed)
18:55 BlueT_ left
pmichaud moritz++ 18:55
skids Crunched on time to golf it tho.
pmichaud the --> Int bug is not a good regression to have, though :-(
18:56 BlueT_ joined
skids would not be as bad if --> Int|Failure worked. 18:56
moritz pmichaud: note that before --> AnyType was just ignored
pmichaud moritz: I note that, yes. 18:57
but having correct code that previously "worked" (didn't crash) now crash is a regression.
18:58 replore_ left
jnthn Yeah, one of those "bug hiding a bug" things. 19:00
pmichaud well, it's more like an incomplete implementation of --> Type 19:01
moritz more like an incomplete implementation of fail(), if you ask me 19:02
jnthn It's probably an incompleteness in the return type check handling.
--> used to be totally ignored
Now it's applied, it has the exact same bug that "returns" has.
skids r: our $foo::bar is export; # I don't know if this is nonsensical but it used to not bail out. 19:03
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'scope' not found for invocant of class 'QAST::Op'␤»
jnthn I'm...not sure that's valid, in the same way my $foo::bar is dubious.
But yeah, it should not fail that way
moritz r: our $foo::bar
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method 'scope' not found for invocant of class 'QAST::Op'␤»
jnthn I dunno what it used to do... :)
sorear n: our $foo::bar is export # curious 19:04
p6eval niecza v21-1-ga8aa70b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Trait export not available on variables at /tmp/abdyJzy2Kt line 1 (EOF):␤------> our $foo::bar is export # curious⏏<EOL>␤␤:: syntax is only valid when referencing variables, not when defining them. at /tmp/…
sorear heh, NYI masks any possible bug
jnthn No, it emits the :: syntax note afterwards.
I suspect Rakudo should do the same.
moritz elsif $twigil ne '*' { $past.scope('lexcial') } # that's the code path that dies 19:05
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pmichaud anyone know the RT bug for the return type check fail fail? 19:05
jnthn pmichaud: OK, I'm confused
moritz pmichaud: I'll try to find it
jnthn pmichaud: It tries to build the nqp-debug.nqp into PIR
And seems to silenlty fail to do so from within make 19:06
*nmake
But if I copy-paste the command it says it runs...it compiles it to PIR.
pmichaud jnthn: can you nopaste some output?
jnthn gist.github.com/3557511 is the relevant build log
tadzik jnthn: yep, the tests pass now 19:07
jnthn tadzik: Did you do a spectest run?
tadzik jnthn: it's still ongoing, but it fixed this Pod issues 19:08
jnthn tadzik: OK
pmichaud: Does the build "cd" at some point inside of the makefile?
pmichaud jnthn: it's not creating modules/rakudo-debugger/perl6-debug.pir ?
jnthn No
skids
.oO(ah, "is export" is extraneous.)
jnthn pmichaud: But if I run the command manually it does create one.
moritz pmichaud: rt.perl.org/rt3//Ticket/Display.html?id=64990
pmichaud moritz++ # thanks 19:09
moritz oops, seems it's marked as 'resolved'
jnthn pmichaud: But I noticed the paths are relative, thus why I'm pondering if it's a cwd fail
pmichaud jnthn: yes, the makefile does 'cd' at a few points
but if it wasn't working, I'd expect 'cannot find ...' errors as opposed to silent fails 19:10
skids Anyway, time to start the long weekend, where's my bottle o rum? Good luck on the release all!
jnthn pmichaud: same
pmichaud: Another data point: the ufo and panda copying appears to have worked out
pmichaud jnthn: yeah, that leads me to believe that we're in the correct cwd 19:11
jnthn same
pmichaud think the / vs \ is an issue?
jnthn Maybe, but when I copy-paste the exact command there without changing the slashes, it does execute and creates the .pir file 19:12
pmichaud are the other files above being precompiled to .pir? Those commands also use / instead of \
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jnthn Yeah; looking in C:/consulting/rstar-rc/rakudo-star-2012.08/install/lib/parrot/4.6.0/languages/perl6/lib/ I see plenty of pre-compiled .pir files 19:14
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pmichaud hmmphs. 19:16
jnthn Where's the thing that builds rakudo-debugger?
or tries to...
pmichaud it's the Makefile that gets generated by Configure.pl
source is tools/build/Makefile.in
19:17 flussence joined
pmichaud follow perl6-debug-install in the Makefile 19:18
jnthn tries getting it to spit out the cwd, just in case 19:20
but it seems a stretch
pmichaud anyway, it's building fine for me.
jnthn yeah, cwd looks fine
pmichaud maybe some odd characters in the makefile? 19:21
I'm kinda grasping at straws :)
jnthn yeah, me too 19:22
pmichaud perhaps try eliminating the continuation line ?
jnthn It's really odd.
pmichaud on the nqp.exe line
[Coke] do a diff on the 2 generated makefiles?
pmichaud r: sub abc() returns Int { 3.5 }; my $x = abc(); say 'alive'; 19:24
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Rat'␤ in block at /tmp/1TE1XyShlH:1␤␤»
pmichaud files rakudobug
19:25 ivan`` left
jnthn pmichaud: ? 19:25
pmichaud S02:1363:
(In fact, the attempt to
return a value that doesn't match the return constraint will internally
call C<fail>, and that failure will be returned according to standard
C<fail> policy, which is dependent on the preferences of the caller.)
jnthn wtf :/ 19:26
19:26 crazedpsyc left
moritz wtf. 19:26
19:26 hoelzro|away left
pmichaud that sounds about right to me, though. 19:26
[Coke] so that shouldn't die unless you say $x ?
pmichaud or otherwise try to use $x in a way that causes the exception to be thrown.
jnthn That's inconsistent with parameter passing's type checking...
19:26 cotto left, jtpalmer left, patspam left
moritz pmichaud: it might be, but it's very bad to switch the behavior until we have better support for failure propagation and blowup 19:26
[Coke] That could really be a compile time failure there.
jnthn What if we're "returns"-ing a native? 19:27
pmichaud in the case of a native, I suspect it's okay to die immediately. 19:28
jnthn Nowhere else does a type constraint not being met cause a Failure rather than an immediate exception.
I don't immediately see why this case deserves to be the exception to the rule. 19:29
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jnthn Unless there's some other rule that it not giving back a Failure would be an exception to... 19:29
pmichaud: Eliminating the continuation line didn't help. Quoting the arg to vmlibs didnt' either. 19:31
pmichaud jnthn: I'm at a loss then :-/
jnthn pmichaud: me too 19:32
I'd not hold the relesae for it
Especially given we produce MSIs and most Windows users will go for those.
pmichaud okay. I have some other changes, so a new rc will be forthcoming soon.
r: sub abc() returns Int { my $r = 3.5 }; my $x = abc(); say 'alive'; 19:34
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Rat'␤ in sub abc at /tmp/ndFsrYzcB_:1␤ in block at /tmp/ndFsrYzcB_:1␤␤»
pmichaud r: sub abc() returns Int { my $r = 3.5; $r }; my $x = abc(); say 'alive';
p6eval rakudo 231137: OUTPUT«Type check failed for return value; expected 'Int' but got 'Rat'␤ in sub abc at /tmp/P8uacuh4gB:1␤ in block at /tmp/P8uacuh4gB:1␤␤»
pmichaud afk, kid pickup 19:35
19:37 BlueT_ joined
TimToady is finally back home, after an extra night's stay at MSP courtesy of Delta 19:44
phenny TimToady: 29 Aug 01:03Z <diakopter> ask TimToady should .codes return the original number of codes as inputted, or the number of codes it will output when it's outputted as NFC+marks?
TimToady: 29 Aug 01:06Z <diakopter> ask TimToady or some other formula I can't imagine at the moment? :)
TimToady: 29 Aug 01:22Z <diakopter> tell TimToady sorear answered it; see the log..
diakopter Delta+-
moritz welcome back, TimToady
[Coke] welcome back, TimToady++
TimToady well, it wasn't really Delta's fault, but the security in Amsterdam...
jnthn Ouch :/ 19:45
TimToady after we we all packed in a ready to go, they decided they couldn't decide whether a certain door had been left unlocked, and made us all get off the plane to get rescanned.
hmm, my power supply is making funny crackling sounds 19:46
maybe it didn't like 220 volts...
[Coke] Oy.
TimToady so anyway, the resulting 2 1/2 hour delay caused us to miss our connection yesterday
jnthn :(
TimToady and of course the motel's WiFi didn't work...
moritz :(
TimToady: it's even 230 V these days 19:47
TimToady but we're back home \o/
colomon \o/
jnthn nqp: my @x := nqp::split('::', 'A::B'); say(@x); 19:48
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«[ "A", "B" ]␤»
jnthn nqp: my @x := nqp::split('::', 'A::B'); say(pir::typeof__SP(@x)); 19:49
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«ResizableStringArray␤»
jnthn nqp: my @x := nqp::split('::', 'A::B'); say(+@x);
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«2␤»
diakopter parrot leak?
19:50 kaare_ left
jnthn diakopter: it's NQP :) 19:50
I didn't expect it to stringifythat way
*that
[Coke] jnthn: yah. 19:51
sorear huh. apparently FRA is actually busier than TXL, it seemed quite the other way around when I was there
19:52 wk_ joined
jnthn sorear: FRA is rather large, so even if there are more people there, it may feel less crowded. 19:54
The kast times I've been at FRA, the check-in area has felt almost deserted... 19:56
*last
moritz FRA is the biggest German airport
jnthn Security felt busier though ;)
sorear moritz: yeah, I was just looking at wikipedia's list of busiest passenger airports, after first looking up "where in the world is MSP" 19:58
moritz and, where is it? :-)
sorear so, LHR, ORD, LAX, FRA, I've been at four of them in the last two week
19:58 cggoebel left
sorear moritz: minneapolis-st.paul, north central USA 19:58
TimToady and you survived!
we saved about $500 each flying into LUX instead of FRA 19:59
sorear well I flew into LUX because that's where woolfy wanted to pick me up ...
dalek c: c386ae4 | moritz++ | lib/Pod/ (5 files):
start to document Pod classes
 20:00
jnthn Eww, LHR... :)
moritz isn't too fond of that either 20:01
sorear jnthn: agreed
20:01 scottdware joined
jnthn wasn't especially amused with OSL yesterday, mind. 20:02
sorear ORD wasn't too bad. land, 5 minute dash on foot to my destination plane .5km away or so, board just before it left
jnthn I guess it's a nice airport overall, but making people doing a tight transfer hurry through a packed duty free shop is annoying. 20:03
diakopter sorear: nice :)
(that you made it)
sorear not the best transfer, but I couldn't have done it at all in LHR or TXL (they both insist on rescreening connecting passengers)
20:03 ivan`` joined, cggoebel joined 20:04 nnunley left
scottdware hey perl6'ers! just a quick ? any of you guys using perl6 regularly for "production" 20:04
such as in your day-to-day scripts/programs, etc.
pmichaud back again
moritz scottdware: I use it almost daily for small tasks
(and so do many other of the "core" folks) 20:05
and sirrobert is using it in his business
dalek p/toqast: c07af7a | jnthn++ | src/ops/nqp.ops:
RSA should also report true in nqp::islist, otherwise the result of split does not count as a list, which caused some breakage.
pmichaud TimToady: welcome back
colomon scottdware: I use it routinely for generating sheet music. often for small tasks for $work. and I'm currently considering doing a medium-sized $work project in it.
scottdware moritz: cool, thanks!
pmichaud back from kid pickup
jnthn scottdware: I've used it at a $client for some small scripts.
scottdware what is sirrobert's business, can you say? 20:06
20:06 birdwindupbird left
scottdware i really love what is being done with the language, and think that its awesome! 20:06
moritz scottdware: no, either he didn't say, or I forgot, sorry :(
jnthn OK, I now put out latest nqp/toqast and rakudo/nqpqast for general spectesting and also a module test run.
spectests look good here.
moritz jnthn: btw last I looked, line numbers in NQP error messages were one off (one too large) 20:07
jnthn moritz: Is that a new fail?
moritz starts a build
jnthn: not new in the nqp/toqast sense 20:08
iirc
jnthn ok, thanks
20:08 scottdware left
moritz /home/moritz/p6/rakudo/install/bin/parrot --include=src/stage1 -o src/stage1/ModuleLoader.pbc \ src/stage1/gen/module_loader.pir 20:09
make: *** [src/stage1/nqpmo.pbc] Segmentation fault
oh wait
it's the nqpmo step that segfaults
parallel make just confused the order
[Coke] is rakudo/nqppast smart enough to pull the right nqp with --gen-parrot ? 20:10
moritz no
[Coke] really hates it when || make gets borked. :|
moritz [Coke]: it's not the parallel make that's borked
[Coke]: rather it's a build step that fails
and parallel make made be believe it was a different step that failed
jnthn [Coke]: Just made it so.
dalek kudo/nqpqast: 9c1534d | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Update NQP_REVISION to ease testing.
20:11 SamuraiJack_ left
dalek ar: f28d3a8 | pmichaud++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
Add a perl6-debug target to the Makefile.
 20:12
ar: 30f8f6b | pmichaud++ | tools/build/ (2 files):
Add better progress messages to module installation.
moritz jnthn: gist.github.com/3558304
jnthn moritz: hmmmmm.
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moritz somehow I have the suspicion it's the hash in the serialization thing that weeds out duplicates 20:13
jnthn Right
Well, that's where it fails at least
pmichaud rc4 now at pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-20...rc4.tar.gz 20:15
sirrobert moose has things like 'after' and 'before' to hook into method execution. Does p6 have similar? 20:18
moritz sirrobert: there's Routine.wrap
sirrobert moritz: great, thanks
[Coke] jnthn: invoke() not implemented in class '$' 20:20
jnthn ah shit...
What the hell is that about.
[Coke] (OS X 10.7.3)
jnthn And why does it only affect NQP.
And not Rakudo.
moritz [Coke]: is that reproducable? 20:21
jnthn How much RAM do each of you have?
[Coke] gist.github.com/3558426
moritz jnthn: that was on a machine with 4GB 20:22
[Coke] 4096MB
a lot of which is in use, of course.
jnthn yeah, I'm pondering how it affects GC
[Coke] moritz: git clean'ing and trying again.
jnthn lies to Parrot about how much RAM he has to see if that'll reproduce it here 20:26
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jnthn aha! 20:27
20:27 crazed- is now known as crazedpsyc, cotto joined
jnthn Yes, I can make it explode in interesting ways here now 20:28
[Coke] yes, I can duplicate it.
pmichaud looks like I'll need a rc5 20:31
sorear sirrobert: Routine.wrap is not a replacement for Moose's before/after, sadly
sirrobert no?
sorear no, Routine.wrap modifies subs in place while before/after/around is a principled form of overriding 20:32
sirrobert it looks like Method::Wrap (or whatever) from p5
ok
20:32 cggoebel left
sorear if you want to use before/after in p6, you'll need to do it yourself: method foo($x,$y) { callsame() * 2 } 20:32
callsame/nextsame and the saner way we do contexts make this much easier to get right than in p5
which eliminates much of the need for method modifiers ... on classes 20:33
but there is currently nothing in the p6 spec which can replace method modifiers on roles
sirrobert hmm ok
jnthn pmichaud: rc5 for? 20:34
pmichaud: The segv?
dalek ar: 0cb73f2 | pmichaud++ | / (2 files):
Add 'configclean' target to handle cleanup from Configure.pl.
 20:35
pmichaud jnthn: the "make clean" at the end of Configure.pl
jnthn ah
I think I may have found the NQP SEGV.
pmichaud jnthn: I don't have any fix for the segfault, unless we want to re-issue a nqp release
jnthn smacks self
pmichaud: If it's what I think it is, then the patch will be pickable into the release.
(Visual Studio Debugger)++ 20:36
20:37 Moukeddar left
sirrobert ok, gotta head out --wave 20:37
20:37 sirrobert left
jnthn Also the nature of the problem explains why the issue didn't show up in Rakudo. 20:37
20:38 cggoebel joined
moritz now I'm really curious. 20:38
20:39 rob__ joined, rob__ is now known as hoelzro
dalek p/toqast: c0fbe4d | jnthn++ | src/6model/reprs/KnowHOWREPR.c:
Add missing mark in KnowHOWREPR that could lead to segfaults and other corruption.
 20:39
moritz fwiw the star RC4 looks quite good so far
20:39 hoelzro is now known as hoelzro|away
jnthn We don't really write knowhow's in Rakudo, we already bootstrapped beyond that point. 20:39
20:39 telex left
pmichaud (i.e., ..."pickable into the release"?) 20:39
jnthn: should I hold off on star release for possible patch?
jnthn pmichaud: c0fbe4d helps, it seems
moritz Testing modules/panda... 20:40
t/panda/builder.t .... Missing or wrong version of dependency 'src/stage2/QRegex.nqp'
in the RC-4
20:40 telex joined
jnthn pmichaud: Done multiple rebuilds with that patch where it previously failed and things look good. 20:40
moritz, [Coke]: Please give it another try. 20:41
moritz jnthn: already rebuilding
jnthn Thanks.
Dang, wish I'd figured out how to reproduce it earlier.
pmichaud jnthn: c0fbe4d is only in the toqast branch? 20:42
jnthn pmichaud: yeah
it can be cherry-picked
pmichaud so, cherry-pick c0fbe4d into master, issue a new nqp release?
moritz cherry-pick the release into 2012.08 20:43
jnthn pmichaud: You can do that, or you can just patch the Star tarball directly. Whichever you prefer.
pmichaud if I patch the Star tarball, there's really no history of the fact that it was patched.
20:43 leont left
pmichaud not sure that's important. 20:43
I suppose I can rebuild the 'patch' infrastructure I once had for a previous release. 20:44
jnthn finds that hard to call
moritz just make a new nqp release
pmichaud so, checkout 2012.08, apply patch, make 2012.08.1 release?
moritz +1
jnthn Curious fact: if I tell Parrot that I have 1 GB or RAM rather than the 16GB I actually have, the build of Rakudo's CORE.setting totals up with 250MB or so less memory usage. 20:45
moritz you don't even need to make a new compiler release of rakudo
jnthn However, it takes 10s longer.
er, 12s
pmichaud jnthn: that's not curious. parrot sets the size of its gc pool based on the amount of memory it thinks you have
moritz since you can depend on specific nqp versions in star
jnthn pmichaud: I knew that bit, just surprised that the total usage came out quite a bit less. 20:46
moritz jnthn: nqp build succeeded here, testing rakudo now
jnthn \o/
20:47 fglock left
jnthn crosses his fingers that the issue [Coke]++ saw is also gone 20:47
pmichaud should I make a new compiler release of rakudo that loads nqp 2012.08.1, though?
otherwise it'll grab 2012.08 and we get errors.
moritz someone can do that after the star release
jnthn pmichaud: My feeling is that most people either grab * or follow Git. 20:48
But that may well be off
pmichaud likely true.
okay.
moritz I'd just really love to see 2012.08 release in 2012.08 :-)
pmichaud patching nqp.
oh, I'm sure the 2012.08 release will be in 2012.08
I still have 8 hrs here.
jnthn ...in some timezone :P
:D
pmichaud it's even possible it'll happen in 2012.08 utc
(likely, in fact, since I have 3 hrs for that) 20:49
cherry-picked, now building and testing 20:50
I should also build/test on my notebook, since that's wehre I was getting the segfaults earlier
[Coke] jnthn: testing now 20:51
pmichaud okay, by checking out 2012.08 I'm in detached head. Will a tag be enough to preserve the commit history so I can recover it?
or do we need to keep a branch?
moritz tag is enough 20:52
jnthn tag will do it
pmichaud okay.
jnthn It's detached because you can't commit to a tag.
[Coke] aw, you can in subversion!
jnthn That was NOT a feature. :P 20:53
pmichaud is there a readme or file I should change in nqp where we can explain why the .1 release?
we don't have a ChangeLog or equivalent file, nor announcements.
jnthn We have neither of those. 20:54
pmichaud (I'm fine if we don't explain it, I think... just curious if anyone knows of a good place for the explanation)
jnthn Not for now, at least.
cognominal my $patrx := $pat ~~ Code ?? $pat !! / $pat: /; # what is the meaning of the colon in this code?
pmichaud which colon?
(there are two)
the colon in the regex disables backtracking 20:55
cognominal ok, thx
dalek d: b759d67 | larry++ | / (4 files):
viv+STD_P5 now parses all of viv
 20:56
pmichaud wow! TimToady++
sorear TimToady++ \o/
moritz \o/
jnthn wow! :D 20:58
TimToady++
lizmat TimToady++
:-)
TimToady though I cheated by fixing a few things in viv, like removing the one indirect object :) 20:59
and some duplicate package names that STD is pickier about than perl5 is
moritz but viv does use heredocs
TimToady abundantly :)
including ones without quotes
those parse now 21:00
pmichaud created nqp-2012.08.1 tarball, testing it now.
TimToady it now treats <<EOT as <<"EOT"
moritz jnthn: failing tests in t/spec/integration/error-reporting.rakudo 21:01
TimToady and I'm sure there are loads of bug-compatibilities that I haven't covered yet...
21:01 fernandocorrea left
lizmat has a warm fuzzy feeling again ;-) 21:01
21:01 stopbit left
jnthn moritz: Just that one? 21:01
moritz: Argh, it's a #icu test.
moritz jnthn: yes, just that one 21:02
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moritz jnthn: but the failures don't look ICU-y 21:02
jnthn moritz: no, but that's the reason I don't see the errors 21:03
moritz perlpunks.de/paste/show/5041268e.7402.22b
jnthn moritz: No ICU build
TimToady so it might be more accurate to say that viv thinks it parses viv :)
jnthn moritz: hmmmmm.
lizmat fwiw, I'm looking at installing ICO on OSX and not liking the experience one bit
diakopter TimToady: the '->(' you added in STD_P5 - can you put a space inside that?
lizmat s/ICO/ICU 21:04
jnthn lizmat: Once upon a time Parrot bundled ICU. I spent ages getting it to build on Windows. Then they debundled it. I don't think I ever managed to build with ICU since.
TimToady that would be one of the bug compatability modes I spoke of :)
moritz jnthn: try: ./perl6 -e 'use v6; class A { has $.x is rw }; A.new.x(42)'
[Coke] jnthn: invoke() not implemented in class '-5119310890791185874'
diakopter eval: my $a = sub { print $_[0] }; $a-> (3)
buubot_backup diakopter: 31 21:05
moritz it spits out four warnings
jnthn [Coke]: Wait, is that with latest NQP?
moritz and then think it's a runtime error
TimToady I think we'll probably reimplement most of ICU soon anyway...
jnthn [Coke]: I didn't bump NQP_REVISION again after the patch...
TimToady: Same ;)
[Coke] jnthn: ARGH.
no, it was with latest rakudo. ;)
moritz latest rakudo doesn't have that patch yet 21:06
jnthn moritz: s/runtime/compile time/?
moritz because the patch was only in the nqp/toqast branch
jnthn: erm, yes
jnthn moritz: e.g. it includes the SORRY when it shouldn't?
hm
[Coke] moritz: I'm IN that branch.
moritz oh
pmichaud nqp tarball passed
dalek kudo/nqpqast: b79e158 | jnthn++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
Another revision bump.
 21:07
jnthn [Coke]: ^^
moritz: I'm guessing something odd is going on with backtrace printing.
moritz jnthn: that's likely 21:08
lizmat wrt "- >", not allowing that in p5 on p6 would not be a big thing in my book
pmichaud tests rakudo 2012.08 using new nqp tarball
moritz my $ x;
jnthn moritz: oh...I see something right away
pmichaud wonders about a "std5:" target for p6eval :)
jnthn nqp::join(';', $bt[$_]<sub>.get_namespace.get_name), 21:09
'nqp;HLL;Compiler'
moritz: NQP doesn't emit Parrot namespace directives any more.
moritz oh
TimToady std: use v5; / [a-z] /
p6eval std d93fffe: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 52m␤»
pmichaud or that.
sorear std: use v5; @ _ 21:10
p6eval std d93fffe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at /tmp/ZBuYlaBoPm line 1:␤------> use v5; @ ⏏_␤ expecting any of:␤ p5infix␤ statement modifier␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 52m␤»
flussence wonders if anyone's ever made a serious attempt to spec-ify p5
TimToady you'll note the caveat about bug compatibility
jnthn std: use v5; / [[] /
p6eval std d93fffe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Couldn't find terminator ]] at /tmp/GZOrbqm6WG line 1 (EOF):␤------> use v5; / [[] /⏏<EOL>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 52m␤»
jnthn ;-)
TimToady jnthn: that's fixed in the latest
moritz flussence: the perl5docs come as close as anything, I think 21:11
jnthn TimToady: oh...I looked at it and thought it wasn't
(as in, read the diff)
I musta missed something.
flussence oh right... I forgot how thorough the docs are :) 21:12
moritz -> sleep
diakopter std: use v5.14; / [a-z] /
TimToady it's quantified with +, so it requires at least one charspec
p6eval std d93fffe: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 52m␤»
dalek kudo/nqpqast: 119716f | jnthn++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Fix is_runtime to unbust backtrace stuff in some cases.
jnthn moritz: ^^ should do it, guess I find out tomorrow ;-)
It helped with the -e line you gave me anyway :)
Sleep well :)
eval /[]/ 21:13
buubot_backup jnthn: ERROR: Unmatched [ in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/[ <-- HERE ]/ at (eval 20) line 1.
jnthn ah, and the empty one is invalid.
TimToady it even accepts / [^[a-z-] / 21:14
sorear what about []] ?
TimToady that too
what it isn't smart about is any backslash longer than . 21:15
jnthn will have to compare it for what he did for Rakudo's m:P5/.../
TimToady so \xff will feyl
sorear (?{ print STDERR "foo" }) hehehe
jnthn Ah, I did handle that bit :)
pmichaud jnthn: is the 119716f commit something I need to worry about for the 2012.08.1 nqp release?
sorear sneaks an indirect object into a regex to toy with TimToady
jnthn pmichaud: repo?
pmichaud: oh, the one I just did 21:16
pmichaud: No
pmichaud rakudo/nqpqast above.
okay, just checking.
jnthn pmichaud: It's a fix required to nqp/toqast.
diakopter eval: use v5; / [^a--] /
buubot_backup diakopter: ERROR: Invalid [] range "a--" in regex; marked by <-- HERE in m/ [^a-- <-- HERE ] / at (eval 20) line 1.
pmichaud I'm spectesting rakudo 2012.08 now with nqp 2012.08.1
sorear eval: / (?{ print STDERR "foo" }) /
buubot_backup sorear: No output.
pmichaud so far looks reasonable.
sorear eval: / (?{ print STDERR "foo" @ }) /
buubot_backup sorear: ERROR: syntax error at (re_eval 21) line 2, near ""foo" @ ;" Compilation failed in regexp at (eval 20) line 1.
jnthn pmichaud: OK. Glad the segv got patched ahead of this release. :)
pmichaud yeah, me too.
jnthn Well, the Star.
TimToady eval: / [^ --] / 21:17
buubot_backup TimToady: No output.
jnthn I'd struggled to reproduce it here before, which made it a real pain to figure out...
TimToady diakopter: I suspect it doesn't like that a comes after -
diakopter std: use v5; / [^a--] /
p6eval std d93fffe: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 52m␤»
TimToady still the old std I suspect, unless someone has rebuilt it 21:18
diakopter std: use v5; / [---] /
p6eval std d93fffe: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 52m␤»
sorear new std has a hash startingwith b
diakopter eval: use v5; / [---] /
buubot_backup diakopter: No output.
[Coke] jnthn: now building rakudo, thanks.
pmichaud spectests pass with nqp-2012.08.1, pushing/publishing 21:19
gist.github.com/3559196 # huh?!?! 21:20
where's that 2012.11 tag coming from? 21:21
sorear check your reflogs?
find out exactly when it was created
flussence I have it locally too
aha 21:22
sorear I don't
flussence the date on it is 2011-12-22
guess it's just a typo 21:23
TimToady anyway, to do cclass correctly probably entails copying over the cc role from STD, which postdates the original copy of STD_P5
pmichaud I don't know how to check the reflogs for tag creation
but, more importantly, I want to get rid of it.
flussence `git show 2012.11`, `git tag -d 2012.11`, lemme figure out how to push tag deletions...
FROGGS git push --tags? 21:24
pmichaud I thought I had already deleted it before, though.
that's why I'm surprised to see it come up again.
flussence FROGGS: not sure if it needs special syntax like for deleting branches remotely 21:25
pmichaud pmichaud@kiwi:~/p6/nqp$ git push origin :refs/tags/2012.11
flussence well, now I know :)
FROGGS right
pmichaud okay, it's now gone from github, at least.
FROGGS ;o)
pmichaud hopefully it won't show up again.
TimToady nap & 21:26
pmichaud 2012.08.1 now released. 21:27
jnthn \o/
pmichaud++
pmichaud now to build a rc5 candidate
dalek ar: c53748c | pmichaud++ | tools/star/Makefile:
Bump bundled nqp version to 2012.08.1 .
 21:28
[Coke] jnthn: built. 21:29
masak morning, #perl6
ooh, a star is born. pmichaud++ 21:30
oh wait. we're still on rc5. 21:31
pmichaud I'm about to do rc5, then test, then release. 21:32
masak nice.
pmichaud pmichaud.com/sandbox/rakudo-star-20...rc5.tar.gz 21:33
jnthn [Coke]: Great :)
21:41 bluescreen10 left
pmichaud nqp just built on all of my platforms w/o segfaults 21:44
jnthn yay
pmichaud so, hopefully things are all good now :)
21:47 MayDaniel left
pmichaud has 2 hrs until 2359 utc 21:54
diakopter TimToady: NFC specifies that a series of "orphaned" combining marks leading a string be left alone.. do you want those to combine to a synthetic, or leave them alone in case the string is appended to another, possibly forming a combinable sequence? 21:55
dalek ar: c7cd324 | pmichaud++ | tools/build/module-install.pl:
Skip blank lines and comment lines in input to module-install.pl.
 21:57
21:58 Guest9874 joined
Guest9874 hello 21:59
diakopter Guest9874: howdy
Guest9874 m super and u? 22:00
diakopter 3 o'clock and all's well
22:01 nuba joined
masak no pains or aches anywhere. mood: happy. 22:02
22:04 Guest9874 left 22:06 stopbit left
pjcj any qr/.*/ => sub { template "404" }; seems to do for 404 what error_template does for 500, but it seems that there should be a not_found_template or something 22:12
or am I barking up the wrong tree? 22:13
sorear qr/.*/ is Perl 5 syntax
pjcj ha, sorry, wrong channel
sorear masak: happy masak is best :D
masak \o/ 22:17
22:21 wamba left
lizmat wishes pmichaud strength in getting rakudo * out in time 22:24
sleep & 22:25
masak oh right. new month.
pmichaud jnthn: ping 22:26
jnthn pongmichaud 22:27
pmichaud when I run perl6-debug from a dos cmd prompt window, I get the escape sequences instead of colors. Should I set something differently?
jnthn pmichaud: For the demos I was running it in another shell. 22:28
pmichaud okay. I suspect that will be a faq for this release then.
diakopter what shell?
jnthn ansicon
pmichaud (just so we're prepared for it)
jnthn yeah
github.com/adoxa/ansicon/downloads 22:29
pmichaud okay, I think I have the star tarball and .msi ready to publish -- any last blockers before I do that?
jnthn I wanna work out how Git makes it work on the normal console
diakopter windows 8 smartscreen blocked that app
jnthn diakopter: How...unsmart
what is smartscreen? :) 22:30
pmichaud it's just windows being "smarter than you" again. :-P
jnthn Every release, there's more crap to disable... :-)
diakopter www.ghacks.net/2012/08/24/windows-8...microsoft/
jnthn heh 22:31
Anyway, I should figure out a better way
And make a module that does the Right Thing.
diakopter EBADSHELL 22:32
pmichaud star tarball and .msi published to github.com/rakudo/star/downloads 22:38
jnthn pmichaud++ 22:39
diakopter oops, smartscreen blocked that .msi too
jnthn smartscreen--
diakopter because it's not signed?
jnthn Guess I'll sticked with Win7 :)
diakopter: What does "blocked" mean?
Asks if you really want to install it? 22:40
diakopter full-screen darkened error, nope, no option to run it anyway
jnthn wat. :/
diakopter "Windows protected your PC"
jnthn Is it an IE thing or a Windows thing? 22:41
diakopter Windows SmartScreen prevented an unrecognized app from starting. Running this app might put your PC at risk. Then a link for More info, which says: Publisher: Unknown Publisher
oh wait. there is a Run anyway button 22:42
still, that error could be very scary
pmichaud oops 22:45
need to create a new one; the announcement is wrong about Bailador.
pmichaud does that.
diakopter pmichaud: the .msi doesn't appear to be signed. is there a way for you to do that? 22:46
I bet that would make smartscreen like it more
pmichaud diakopter: I have no clue about windows signing. 22:47
jnthn Not automatically
And signing costs.
www.hanselman.com/blog/UsingCodeSig...creen.aspx
pmichaud and there's only so far that I'm willing to go in the name of bringing freedom to those who select products that limit freedom. 22:48
jnthn Indeed.
pmichaud the whole idea that everyone needs to check with M$ before installing a package... well, I disagree with that.
jnthn Same.
If somebody else wants to go through the cost/trouble of building a distribution that deals with these issues, fine, but it's not somewhere I feel like spending resources. 22:49
Well, that's why we have separate compiler and distribution releases.
Really though, fuck Microsoft for this one. :/ 22:50
diakopter Adam signs his Strawberry Perl .msi
jnthn diakopter: Then there's hope somebody will make a signed MSI for Rakudo some day. :) 22:51
diakopter "strawberryperl.com - Open Source Developer"
[email@hidden.address]
a Certum Level III certificate
.. I thought it was adam.. 22:52
pmichaud diakopter: I'm not saying I won't do signing. I'm saying I don't know how, and that I'm not inclined to do a lot of research on it. I already spent days figuring out how to create the .msi in the first place.
if someone else will point me to a quick-and-easy signing resource, I'm all for it. 22:53
jnthn pmichaud: The resource I just linked to shows it's anything but quick and easy :(
diakopter I'll get a cert
pmichaud jnthn: yes, I know. the same was true for putting together the .msi in the first place.
diakopter "The actual signing, once the cert shows up is not too hard." 22:54
(from that page)
a one liner
jnthn Getting the cert seems to involve more effort than for me to get a Swedish ID card. Something's weird. :)
dalek ar: 9727c86 | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2012.08:
Remove "Bailador not working" entry from announcement.
jnthn Anyways, sleep time for me.
pmichaud I'm not sure I want to sign things using someone else's cert, fwiw; I want to make sure I know the details behind the cert. 22:56
masak 'night, jnthn, #perl6
diakopter pmichaud: I meant a new cert.. is that good enough? 22:57
pmichaud depends on how the cert is registered, I suspect.
sorear if we want to go through the trouble of getting code signing set up, it seems like it would be a lot better to have 'The Perl Foundation' rather than 'Matthew Wilson' 23:01
diakopter :) yeah
I bet we can do it 23:02
sorear fwiw, Apple has set up their own semimandatory code signing system for mac os 10.8 23:04
diakopter besides, it appears most of the code signing cert providers won't register one to an individual
sorear wonders how happy code signining people are with bundling of 3rd party code like is done in Star 23:05
hopefully they won't insist on certs for PaFo and all our module authors
dalek ar: ba342ac | pmichaud++ | docs/announce/2012.08:
More release announcement updates; fix some obsolete text.
 23:07
ar: f6ef640 | pmichaud++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
Typo fixes in release-guide.pod.
23:09 fgomez left
pmichaud sorear: yes, that was my thought -- something like "Rakudo" or "TPF" is better than "person who bought a certificate" :-) 23:11
TPF might have an issue with signing for third-party code, though. So I'm not exactly sure what umbrella it should go under. 23:12
sorear afaik Rakudo is not a legal entity
well, you're already signing for third-party code, the CLA is not an ownership assignment 23:13
diakopter I bet we could get one with perl6.org in the title
pmichaud Rakudo Star includes code that doesn't come from a CLA.
and TPF would likely feel more comfortable about third-party code that comes via CLA. I meant code that isn't via CLA.
sorear does stuff get bundled into star without first being signed off on by PaFo or you?
(does it include an unreviewed ecosystem dump?) 23:14
pmichaud sure, most of the modules aren't via CLA
heck, even nqp itself isn't via CLA
sorear I think then I am not quite understanding the constraints 23:15
I was thinking this is a matter of "what if star contains bona fide malware, who do we fire?"
pmichaud that's not an issue I was thinking of, no. 23:16
besides that, there's no "fire" involved except in a community sense -- there aren't employees involved here
diakopter if an incident occurred, more stringent controls would be set up; that's all 23:18
sorear this whole discussion is moot without a TPF representative. 23:19
[Coke]: Who should we ping?
pmichaud I'm not sure I _want_ to go through TPF, so it's not something I want to be pushing them about yet. 23:22
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diakopter chatting with DigiCert.. they will sell a cert only to orgs registered with the IRS 23:23
pmichaud registering with the IRS is no big deal; I have two already. 23:24
sorear diakopter: will they do DBAs or does it have to be "The Yet Another Foundation"?
I beleive that's the primary IRS name of TPF 23:25
diakopter Yet Another Society 23:28
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lichtkind masak: 23:47
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