»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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Woodi would like to note that cartoon is for modules only and their dependencies. rest should be builded on modules-management-system... 00:07
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flussence rn: say &fork 00:18
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'fork' used at line 1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) ␤ at /hom…
flussence n: say &fork.defined
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'fork' used at line 1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) ␤ at /hom…
flussence :(
lue gets the feeling we're heading towards a miniature linux distro model in terms of software use and management in Perl 6. 00:20
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flussence all the fun of package managers plus all the fun of web development circa 2005... 00:23
lue
.oO( I hope that web development part isn't true :/ )
 00:26
grondilu rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count{1}; 00:29
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
grondilu rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count.kv;
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Attempted to access slot $!index of type object for Count␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1220 (CommonEnum.key @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1222 (CommonEnum.kv @ 4) ␤ at /tmp/C8i74c4oC7 line 1 (m…
..rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«Parameter '' requires an instance, but a type object was passed␤ in method kv at src/gen/CORE.setting:2390␤ in block at /tmp/duDKJIF8ub:1␤␤»
flussence it's only fun if you write for a single impl and don't need performance at all.
grondilu rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say %(Count){1};
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unmatched key in Hash.LISTSTORE␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (Any.hash @ 3) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /tmp/QEt3FzBE8j line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211…
..rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«Odd number of elements found where hash expected␤ in method STORE at src/gen/CORE.setting:6547␤ in method hash at src/gen/CORE.setting:1196␤ in block at /tmp/h4sQDStt_7:1␤␤»
grondilu Can't I turn an enumeration into a hash?? 00:30
rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count.enums.hash{lots};
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«2␤»
timotimo rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count.enums.hash; # doesn't this work?
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«("1" => 0, "2" => 1, "lots" => 2).hash␤»
..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«{"1" => 0, "2" => 1, "lots" => 2}␤»
flussence rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count::<lots>
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«lots␤»
grondilu flussence++
rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count::{'lots'}; # just testing an other syntax 00:31
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«lots␤»
grondilu ahh 00:32
flussence--
timotimo r: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count::{'lots', '2'};
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«lots 2␤»
flussence yeah, I just realised how useless that was :)
rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count::<something>
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
grondilu wierd
timotimo is that good or bad? :|
flussence rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count::<lots>.perl
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Count::lots␤»
flussence rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count::<lots>.kv 00:33
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c, niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«lots 2␤»
grondilu I could go for .enums.hash, but that's a bit hairy
flussence oh, not as useless as it looked
timotimo r: enum Bool <True False FileNotFound>; say Bool::True.kv; # this one is famous
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«0 True␤»
grondilu rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count.^methods; 00:35
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method methods in type ClassHOW␤ at /tmp/4fGYRtxfrB line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4212 (module-CORE @ 578) ␤ at…
..rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«enums kv pair perl pick roll Int postcircumfix:<( )> Str Numeric gist key value Int Num Rat FatRat abs Bridge chr sqrt base expmod is-prime floor round ceiling sign conj rand sin asin cos acos tan atan atan2 sec asec cosec acosec cotan acotan sinh asinh cosh acosh …
lue r: say ?2; enum Bool <True False FileNotFound>; say ?2;
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«True␤True␤»
grondilu rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count.enums».value;
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method value in type EnumMap␤ at /tmp/_UrtdFaEqX line 1 (ANON @ 2) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3092 (hyperunary @ 66) ␤ at /tmp/_UrtdFaEqX line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE…
..rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«No such method 'value' for invocant of type 'Int'␤ in method dispatch:<hyper> at src/gen/CORE.setting:985␤ in block at /tmp/WGX23xK6vd:1␤␤»
grondilu rn: enum Count < 1 2 lots >; say Count.enums.WHAT; 00:36
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«Hash()␤»
..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«EnumMap()␤»
grondilu cough
cough cough 00:37
rn: say Enum.enums.WHAT;
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method enums in type Enum␤ at /tmp/43abnfjNz8 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4212 (module-CORE @ 578) ␤ at /home…
..rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«No such method 'enums' for invocant of type 'Enum'␤ in block at /tmp/bFuoqevAh3:1␤␤»
TimToady x10 L7on 00:50
phenny TimToady: 29 Nov 03:03Z <japhb> tell TimToady I've been tanking on S11 and the big discussion we had this afternoon. I'm beginning to wonder if the 'use' statement isn't the right place to be specifying auth and ver, or at least not the only place to make that choice.
TimToady: 29 Nov 03:05Z <japhb> tell TimToady I understand the desire to say "I need this API version from my dependency." But it's the wrong place to specify it when you want to bundle, i.e. specify "These packages of software have been tested together", where you want to make a more project-global choice 00:51
TimToady: 29 Nov 03:06Z <japhb> tell TimToady I'll continue to tank on it, but input from your highly non-linear thinking patterns desired.
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was rn: my %g = <a 1 b 1 c 1>;my ($t, $u) = <a b>;%g.delete($t, $u);say %g.perl; 01:03
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«("a" => "1", "b" => "1", "c" => "1").hash␤»
..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to Hash.delete, used 2 of 3 positionals␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (Hash.delete @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/IbO3g6zMWq line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤ …
was rn: git://gist.github.com/4173039.git
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/Y8crdu5Qbh:1␤»
..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Confused at /tmp/BfIKQFHgR8 line 1:␤------> git⏏://gist.github.com/4173039.git␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'git' used at line 1␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
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was rn: git://gist.github.com/4173039.git 01:04
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/0sGjyWKgW9:1␤»
..niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Confused at /tmp/v9jOZ1lFu7 line 1:␤------> git⏏://gist.github.com/4173039.git␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'git' used at line 1␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
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was rn: gist.github.com/4173039 01:05
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Excess arguments to Hash.delete, used 2 of 3 positionals␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0 (Hash.delete @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/KxVmenKXiH line 3 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4211 (ANON @ 3) ␤ …
..rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«("a" => "1", "b" => "1", "c" => "1").hash␤»
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lue r: my %h; %h.push(1,2) for ^3; say %h.perl; 01:26
p6eval rakudo 7ede6c: OUTPUT«("1" => [2, 2, 2]).hash␤»
lue Should this be happening? I expected ("1"=>2, "1"=>2, "1"=>2).hash
Actually, there's no reason I should expect that. I just didn't expect "1" => [2,2,2] . 01:28
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skids lue: that behavior for the Hash.push method is indeed documented in S32/Containers. 03:16
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sorear someone removed Ralph Nader from the CPAN FAQ :( :( :( 03:33
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lue skids: that... feels very wrong. 05:06
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Tene What does a politician have to do with cpan? 05:16
sorear Tene: www.c-span.org/ 05:39
Tene ahh 05:51
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moritz \o 06:08
sorear o/ 06:09
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moritz lue: a hash can't have the same key twice, so (1 => 2, 1 => 2, 1 => 2).hash is the same as (1 => 2).hash 06:14
lue moritz: I realized that when trying to get around the "failure" on .push's part. I still think %h.push(1,2) xx 3 shouldn't act like %h.push(1=>(2 xx 3)); 06:18
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moritz lue: but that's exactly what push is designed to do 06:26
lue Huh. I guess I'm just surprised that xx is tighter than the closing paren.
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moritz it's not 06:29
just as print(1) xx 3 does the same as print (1 xx 3)
it's the same semantic through a different syntax
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GlitchMr Isn't xx lazy? 06:32
So, (print 1) xx 3 would do nothing?
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moritz depends on context 07:32
in sink context it would be eager
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GlitchMr wow, people are finding Perl 6 website on... "multiline comment in perl" 08:27
According to the stats (which are public for some reason).
Or even simply "comments in perl"
People even find Perl 6 on surprise... -2/ * 6 08:29
Seriously? What -2/ * 6 has with Perl 6? 08:30
Actually, that pair of 6 and -2 finds Perl 6... but how? 08:31
moritz GlitchMr: because Perl 6 websites have a high number of occurrences of the digit 6 08:41
so search engines think they are relevant on the topic 6
heck, they even have 6 in the domain names
GlitchMr Now I wonder why this doesn't happen when I simply type 6
moritz too much compettion, probably 08:42
GlitchMr And why simply "2 6" doesn't do that 08:43
Werid
Weird*
doy "-2" means "sites that don't include 2", typically 08:49
so it's probably clearing out a lot of sites that just include a lot of random numbers
GlitchMr Oh, right 08:52
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fglock hi perl6 08:54
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GlitchMr perl6.org/page-stats/faq.html 08:56
fglock I'm planning a perlito5 release in about 2 weeks - it would be nice to have feedback on bugs, nice-to-haves, or things to add to the release text
GlitchMr According to 404 errors somebody has tried to "hack the site" lol
08:56 Gruber is now known as Grrrr
GlitchMr Trying to find phpMyAdmin on Perl 6 server? Nope. 08:56
moritz every public site on the internet gets such requests 08:57
i guess 99% of them at least are automated
and by botnets
GlitchMr According to Google search keyphrases, people are looking on how to flatten the list in Perl 6 ;-). 09:11
moritz so, write an FAQ entry for it 09:15
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kresike hello all you happy perl6 people 09:22
brrt hi kresike
kresike brrt, o/
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cedrvint Hello #perl6 09:35
FROGGS hi cedrvint
hi kresike 09:36
kresike FROGGS, o/
cedrvint i would like to contribute an article to the Perl6 Advent Calendar, is there still a free slot? 09:37
moritz cedrvint: yes, lots of them are free 09:38
cedrvint: do you have github ID?
cedrvint moritz: yes cedric-vincent
moritz github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...2/schedule is the schedule 09:39
cedrvint: I'll give you commit access so that you can claim a spot in the schedule
cedrvint moritz: thanks!
do you think this article meets your expectations? gist.github.com/4174770 09:40
it's about Whatever (and subset as a bonus)
moritz cedrvint: from a quick glance over it: YES 09:41
cedrvint it still requires peer reviews :)
moritz cedrvint: I also need your email address so that I can give author rights on the advent calendar site (it's a wordpress.com subdomain). If you don't want it public, you can send it to me by private message 09:42
FROGGS cedrvint++ # I like it
cedrvint thanks ^^
moritz cedrvint: I can proof-read it, but not right now (at $work)
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dalek : 3bb0585 | (Cédric VINCENT)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
claim one spot

I took the first free spot but feel free to change it if you wish.		 09:52
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moritz cedrvint++ 09:59
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moritz cedrvint: I think it's a good choice; that way others have more time to prepare their stuff :-) 10:00
sorear cedrvint: what's the story behind the last name capitalization?
cedrvint sorear: "vincent" is a usual first name in French, hence the capitalization to avoid the ambiguity 10:01
sorear: it's a common practice in French also 10:02
sorear cedrvint: interesting. I've seen it most often with Japanese names
moritz last names must be SHOUTED :-)
cedrvint :) 10:03
sorear kind of important there because there seems to be about a 50% chance that any given Japanese person will put their family name first when writing romaji...
does this convention have a name? I'd love to read more about its history 10:04
brrt cedrvint, this is really nice stuff
cedrvint Wikipedia FR doesn't agree, though: "last names aren't capitalized" fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipédia:Con...de_famille
sorear I wish I had that kind of ideas :D
bonsaikitten cedrvint: in common usage they are
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cedrvint sorear: I don't think so. 10:05
sorear: (about the name)
bonsaikitten that's how you detect the frenchies, they always do that by habit
and it makes sense, "mohammed youssuf" - which name is which?
cedrvint brrt: thanks :)
sorear bonsaikitten: before today I thought it was an exclusively Japanese habit
bonsaikitten sorear: the chinese also do it sometimes 10:06
within europe it's afaict only the french-speaking area that does it
sorear bonsaikitten: now I want to know why it's common in such unrelated and widely separated areas
bonsaikitten sorear: ambiguity - in german it's always firstname family name, in chinese always family name firstname
now what happens when a german guy tries to use the chinese name?
sorear I would expect German-Japanese and French-Vietnam cross-polination
as well as the local stuff 10:07
bonsaikitten quite likely
sorear it's weird to see something that's common in France and Japan but neither Vietnam nor Germany
huf i've seen hungarian programmers all-caps their last name too
bonsaikitten for germany it was never needed
huf it's never needed for any one place internally 10:09
cedrvint according to the French and Belgium typographic reference ("Lexique des règles typographiques en usage à l’Imprimerie nationale"), it's OK to capitalize the last name to avoid ambiguity. 10:13
but it's not required if there's no ambiguity.
huf that's an odd rule 10:14
deciding that requires you to be simultaneously inside the head of every thinking being
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bonsaikitten huf: it's suggested, but if you don't do it then that's your choice 10:15
easy :)
huf i get how it works in practice
bonsaikitten I capitalize just because it's convenient ... half the time people get it wrong 10:16
huf it's not like this metadata is enough in the general case :)
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cognominal I must go to #perl6 to learn about French! 10:19
cedrvint cognominal: I thought you were French :)
huf he can learn the fun stuff then
cedrvint yes :)
cognominal I am, but I still learn stuff here
huf my experience with english was that it gets more fun as you learn more 10:20
cedrvint thinks it gives more headaches too ;) 10:21
huf the bad kind or the "my brain is full of fuck but in a good way" kind? 10:22
cedrvint I get more fun at learning Perl 6 :)
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cedrvint huf: in good way # I like cross-polination 10:22
huf :) 10:23
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brrt you know what would be a good idea 10:33
a script that could find typo's
anywhere
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timotimo typo's like "typo's"? 10:40
brrt nice 10:41
yes
huf is "cat" a typo for "dog"?
brrt based on a histogram of words in the file
huf if so, that might make things a lot harder ;) 10:42
brrt can't catch'm all
timotimo it should also inspect the currently loaded keyboard layout to see what keys are neighbours
"reifgbourds" <- ;)
brrt that would be awesome, too 10:43
well
maybe not
considering the harm autocorrect has done over the years
timotimo is harm a typo for "amusement"? 10:44
brrt is amusement a typo for schadenfreude?
:-p
timotimo is schadenfreude a typo for kindergarten? 10:45
brrt yes 10:46
definitely
(the great feature of german is its extended vocabulary)
timotimo well, it's not really an extended vocabulary, it's just the "Wortfreizusammensetzungsmöglichkeit". 10:47
brrt some of those zusammensetzungen keep arround to become vocubalary 10:48
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brrt i wonder how english fixes that; in some cases it obviously doesn't and borrows 10:50
timotimo :) 10:51
dalek rlito: 2b905bc | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
Perlito5 - js2 - fix package stringification
FROGGS brrt: I don't think that english is less extendable, you can use nouns as verbs for example. IMO english and german arn't that different 10:58
brrt ah, yes
verbing
they are extendable in very different directions
timotimo it's sometimes fun to english around a bit, yes. 10:59
it would be surprising if english and german were very different, they are both indogermanic languages, IIRC 11:00
FROGGS I believe my wife said something about romanic
timotimo en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_languages - this seems to be correct 11:01
brrt yes, but thats the whole shebang of langauges
timotimo en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_languages - but here, too. 11:02
brrt it includes both celtic and italic
arnsholt English has productive compounding as well, but not to the extent of German and Scandinavian and such
But they're usually written with spaces in the orthography, which can cause some confusion 11:03
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FROGGS If I read that article correctly then english is a west germanic language, swedish and norwegian are north germanic (wow, who would have guessed that :o) 11:06
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arnsholt Yeah, those terms are often a bit uninformative 11:07
FROGGS well, that char is nice: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germanic_lan...Diachronic
arnsholt But Scandinavian is one group, and then German, Dutch, and English are sort of spread out on a continuum
(But the history of English is really gnarly and hard to sort out)
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dalek rlito: 8b342ee | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - parser - fix namespace
 11:16
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hoelzro why is that bot named 'dalek'? 11:41
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moritz because somebody likes Dr. Who 11:45
hoelzro well, I gathered that =)
but why "dalek"?
moritz maybe because the bot is non-human too? :-) 11:46
hoelzro hmm...touche 11:47
brrt p5 question, how do you quote a word so it is 'safe' for a regex? 11:53
as a literal
arnsholt m/\Q $stuff \E/x IIRC
brrt thanks :-) 11:54
index is better for my purposes
arnsholt Oh, m/\Q$stuff\E/x actually
Apparently \Q and \E negate the effects of /x 11:55
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dalek rlito: 60cc0ca | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
Perlito5 - Dumper - fix handling of numbers and SCALAR
 12:56
moritz arnsholt: \Q is the as quotemeta, which means anything not matching \w is escaped, and that includes whitespace 12:58
*is the same as
brrt gist.github.com/4175606 share and enjoy 13:02
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dalek rlito: 8704d12 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
Perlito5 - js2 - fix namespace/bareword
 14:58
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dalek rlito: d216d0e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
Perlito5 - parser - namespace TODO - more corner cases
 15:51
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dalek rlito: d69c95a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
Perlito5 - parser - namespace TODO - more corner cases
 15:56
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kresike bye folks 16:14
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RandalSchwartz NQP revision 2012.11-2-gc0ddc72 required (currently 2012.10-96-gc0ddc72). 16:27
why isn't the build script doing the right thing?
perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot && gmake 16:28
building origin/nom
just started failing in the past few days
and that's interesting.. it's the same sha, but a different tag 16:29
did someone add a tag, but --gen-parrot doesn't pick up new tags?
[crickets] 16:33
PerlJam could be, i guess
I tend to build them individually myself rather than rely on the --gen option 16:34
(except when building a release)
RandalSchwartz that suggests that the option should be removed if it's broken
or fixed. :)
NQP built fine. it's just that the next step fails because it has the wrong veversion number. 16:35
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RandalSchwartz just wondering how that passed the "push" test. 16:35
also, is origin/nom still the right branch to build?
PerlJam aye
RandalSchwartz ok - so I'm reporting that someone broke the build. :) 16:36
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RandalSchwartz I'm looking at the log, but not seeing any obvious culprits 16:36
line 86 in Configure.pl is complaining 16:38
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rurban I've got a test pragma question. you call it fudge. We are thinking of an improved p5 testsuite: for the three B:: compilers and the several perlito compilers. But we need to add compiler pragmas also, such as "use pragma B::C => '-fstash', perlito5-js => '--expand-use';" 16:40
So we want to check for certain compiler specific options at compile-time, add compiler options at parse-time, and influence the tests at parse-time. 16:42
Because the core testsuite pretty much passes most of the compilers, but there are some missing parts and quirks
So did you think of compiler pragmas already? (checking and adding) use oo ... is similar. 16:43
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FROGGS RandalSchwartz: did you made any changes to nqp so it might is unable to pull? 16:51
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PerlJam in a minute or two I'll build rakudo in a fresh VM to confirm the problem 16:57
(or not)
FROGGS I made clean clones lately and since then there are no changes that could have broken it 16:58
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timotimo i'm wondering if i'm going to meet a perl6 person at the chaos communication congress in berlin later this year? 17:01
FROGGS ohh, what date? 17:02
timotimo between christmas and new year
events.ccc.de/congress/2012/wiki/Main_Page there yo ugo
FROGGS hmmm, my son#s birthday is on 27th
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timotimo no need to come just for me ;) 17:03
FROGGS well, the page says it is in hamburg
timotimo ah, do you live there? 17:04
FROGGS no, but near Berlin
timotimo oh, did i say berlins
FROGGS you did ;o)
timotimo i'm dumb. it's been in berlin the previous years, but it's in hamburg now
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FROGGS k 17:05
so I wont be there ;o)
timotimo those things take a while to penetrate my thick skull :)
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PerlJam notes that his fresh checkout+build of rakudo says "Note: checking out '2012.11-2-gc0ddc72'." about nqp 17:06
FROGGS RandalSchwartz: so can you try to: cd nqp && git pull ? 17:07
PerlJam (still has to build parrot + nqp though to get to the point where RandalSchwartz noted failure)
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moritz RandalSchwartz: try cd nqp/; git tag -d 2012.11; git pull; cd ..; perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot 17:08
RandalSchwartz: there was a wrong 2012.11 tag for the 2011.12 release
which got deleted upstream, and now causes trouble 17:09
PerlJam ah. that'd do it.
moritz has an idea
FROGGS but it didnt try to checkout this tag
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moritz yes, but the revision strings are based on the tag 17:09
RandalSchwartz it computes revision
yeah what he said 17:10
FROGGS ohh, I thought these are a no-op
moritz ok, I'm going to make a 2012.11.1 tag in nqp
FROGGS ya, that'll do
moritz that doesn't correspond to a release, but will ease the tag confusion
RandalSchwartz awesome
dalek p: 0c08da3 | moritz++ | tools/build/PARROT_REVISION:
bump to a newer parrot

this should fix the encoding problems in socket reads		 17:12
moritz 2012.11.1 tagged
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jeffreykegler I'm working up a blog post on whitespace handling in scannerless languages 17:14
Perl 6 being a foremost example 17:15
I wonder about the interaction of LTM with the .ws construct
In deciding what is whitespace, how often is the work done by .ws ... 17:16
and how often by LTM
dalek kudo/nom: 0bfba1b | moritz++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
bump to NQP 2012.11.1

just to avoid confusion with the duplicate 2012.11 tag
jeffreykegler For example, is "42" one number or two?
You can decide that using LTM: "42" is a longer token than "4"
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moritz erm, that's not what LTM is about 17:17
jeffreykegler Or you could decide it because there is not word boundary between the "4" and the "2", and hense .ws will not match
moritz LTM is about that the long of two alternative wins
RandalSchwartz yeay, rakudo built!
moritz \d+ matching 42 instead of 4 is because of greediness
jeffreykegler mortiz: I was just reading your blog post on LTM and that's the impression I got, but I wanted to be sure 17:18
PerlJam RandalSchwartz: so ... what are you going to do your new rakudo? :-)
moritz jeffreykegler: it' more interesting to look at cases where there is actual competition between too tokens 17:20
jeffreykegler "42" is a contrived example, perhaps, because I'm not sure Perl 6 allows two consecutive numbers anywhere
moritz jeffreykegler: --$x could be prefix:<--> or -(-($x))
that's where LTM comes into play, and lets -- win over - - 17:21
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moritz and note that <.ws> allows a zero-width match if not surrounded by word characters 17:21
jeffreykegler Understand about the zero-width match -- I'm calling the idea "smart whitespace" in the Marpa context 17:22
moritz so -(-$x) would be valid interpretation of --$x, were it not for LTM, or not for prefix:<-->
jeffreykegler with due credit of course to Perl 6 where I got it from
I'm asking because I'll refer back to Perl 6 and I am trying to eliminate some of my worst misstatements of act in advance :-) 17:24
of act -> of fact
Btw, what influence has the literature on "scannerless" parsing had on Perl 6? 17:26
You don't use the term much, but I think that's what you're doing 17:27
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moritz we like to think of grammars as autogenerating scanners 17:27
each LTM section is one scanner, which can be compiled down to a DFA 17:28
and I can't tell you about the influence; the LTM idea was already there when I joined the project
and I didn't do too much research into the past
jeffreykegler I got the idea of "scannerless" parsing via the literature
And only in retrospect realized that Perl 6 must be the most successful and widespread "scannerless" language out there 17:29
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RandalSchwartz can someone define LTM for me? 17:34
long term memory? 17:35
last twelve months?
IATA code for an airport in Guyana?
sjn Less Than Magnificent
RandalSchwartz none of those seem to match
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jeffreykegler Randal: LTM means longest token matching 17:35
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jeffreykegler It's a subject on which I am probably the least qualified person in this chat room 17:36
RandalSchwartz ahh. googling for "ltm perl6" brought me to perlgeek.de/en/article/longest-token-matching
sjn reads 17:38
RandalSchwartz ok, that's a bit clearer... sorta.
RandalSchwartz goes back to $dayjob
jeffreykegler Btw, perlgeek.de/en/article/longest-token-matching is the blog post by moritz I referred to earlier 17:39
It's a model of the form: short clear direct informative 17:40
moritz jeffreykegler: that's a nice description of the style I strive for 17:47
sometimes i want to add humour to the mix, but mostly it doesn't fit
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masak jumps into the channel 18:01
if you were to design a language from scratch, would you consider calling the string type "text"?
instead of "String" or "Str", I mean.
FROGGS hi masak 18:04
masak who does the "State of Perl 6" advent post tomorrow? 18:06
sorear: family name capitalization is almost the norm in Esperanto. that's where I saw it first. 18:07
arnsholt All caps surnames is common in France as well 18:11
And yes, I don't think I'd mind calling strings text
masak I'm less eager to upset the status quo with the types "float" and "double", even thought "double" is rather silly. 18:13
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dalek ast: 0532e2d | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-str/substr.t:
RT #115086, test for "string".([Number], Inf)

  rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=115086		 18:17
PerlJam masak: If TimToady were willing and able, I'd like to see his thoughts on the subject (re: state of Perl 6) 18:19
PerlJam looks at all of the gaps in the p6advent schedule ... 18:22
well, at least choosing a day or two for myself won't be difficult :) 18:23
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masak it would be nice to know today who is doing tomorrow. 19:01
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masak also, we currently have 8 slots claimed out of 24. 19:02
I think we should at least raise the question whether we should do an advent calendar this year.
cedrvint masak: yes, please! 19:03
PerlJam It would be a shame not to.
cedrvint: care to do a post for the advent calendar?
cedrvint PerlJam: you mean another one ? (irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-11-30#i_6199528) 19:04
masak people, please put your name in free slots at github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...2/schedule
if you don't, the advent calendar won't happen for the fourth year in a row.
PerlJam wonders if ingy or RandalSchwartz or rurban or ... would also like to contribute 19:05
moritz I can do the SOP6 post for tomorrow
PerlJam moritz++
moritz as soon as Ronja is in bed :-)
cedrvint moritz++
I could write another post if someone adds support for :bytes in rules ;) 19:08
moritz that... won't be easy
cedrvint had a dream: write a grammar for ELF format 19:09
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PerlJam will write at least 2 advent posts 19:09
I jsut don't know when or about what yet :)
cedrvint PerlJam++ 19:10
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rurban advent calendar: fglock maybe with perlito? I have nothing to say about perl6 19:11
cedrvint PerlJam: something about Perl 6 in RosettaCode ? 19:12
this is a valuable resource for beginers
mikemol ducks 19:13
moritz cedrvint: I believe we had a general introduction to rosettacode in last year's calendar
mikemol usually writes that one, but there's zip time this year.
moritz so it should contain something new
mikemol You could hit it from a side angle. I.e. query RC's API to get a list of all the pages with Perl 6 examples.
cedrvint this is one of the RC tasks :) 19:14
PerlJam perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/1...etta-code/
was 2010
rurban I could explain the Mime::Base64 issues with unicode 19:15
cedrvint rurban: you tease my curiosity :) 19:19
rurban github.com/parrot/parrot/commit/dc...37b2c10a37
PerlJam The tag line is "Something cool about Perl every day". Perhaps we should change that :) 19:20
er, "Something cool about Perl 6 every day"
(I always think "Perl" when I see "Perl 6") 19:21
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rurban cedrvint: github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/814 19:21
PerlJam okay, I picked some days. Now all I need is some good topics :) 19:22
dalek : cc51189 | duff++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
[advent] claim some days
 19:23
cedrvint what about a post that explains LTM ? 19:27
(iirc rakudo supports LTM for less than a year)
PerlJam cedrvint++ an excellent idea :) 19:28
arnsholt I think b had some LTM support, but it disappeared for a long time in the nom transition 19:29
cedrvint moritz++ already wrote it: perlgeek.de/en/article/longest-token-matching :) 19:30
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PerlJam cedrvint: yes, but it could use a little revamp for advent 19:30
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PerlJam (especially since that article was from 3 years ago) 19:31
cedrvint: also see: 6guts.wordpress.com/2012/06/07/ltm-...ernations/ 19:32
[Coke] we should reorg roast so that integration/ is several top level directories (treat it like a Syn.) 19:33
PerlJam also, heredocs.
masak I'd happily write the post on LTM.
I like grammar engines :)
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colomon hmmm, having difficulty getting to github.com at the moment. :( 19:37
rurban I'll write something about parrot strings and encodings with MIME::Base64 as example why parrot/perl6 is superior 19:39
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rurban niner could explain parrot threads and perl6 hyper 19:43
FROGGS I'g love to see something about threads
I'd* 19:44
rurban I cannot write to perl6/mu 19:45
PerlJam rurban: I'd add you if I could remember how :) 19:49
rurban github.com/perl6?tab=members I'm there already 19:51
[Coke] rurban: do youhave it checked out readonly? 19:53
masak gist.github.com is not feeling well right now. 19:54
ah, likely because github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...2/schedule
er, because twitter.com/github/status/274590812254384128 19:55
rurban Coke: github is telling me read-only for mu, but read-write for nqp
I'll wait. I claimed Dec 7
masak rurban++ 19:56
need more people, people! :)
rurban I'll try to find someone for threads
cedrvint post idea: "who's who?" 19:57
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PerlJam cedrvint++ go for it! (assuming that hasn't already been done ;) 19:58
colomon feel free to put me down for a couple of days on the Advent calendar, as long as I have at least two days warning that I've got to do something... 20:00
PerlJam Has anyone done a post on panda? 20:01
cedrvint PerlJam: Google blog search doesn't report any post dedicated to panda/perl6 20:04
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rurban We also changed the YAPC::US 2013 topic to -Ofun, so perl6 is featured better. Because it is more fun to optimize perl6 than perl5. Suggestions for active perl6 optimization projects where people can jump on? See ofun.pm/ 20:06
cedrvint PerlJam: except for that one: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2010/12/0...ecosystem/ about its predecessor
rurban Something new for perl6.org/fun/ ? 20:07
dalek : cd87a45 | (Carl Mäsak)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
[perl6advent-2012/schedule] topics for my slots
 20:09
: 990be9b | (Carl Mäsak)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
[perl6advent-2012/schedule] added rurban++
 20:10
sorear good * #perl6
masak sorear! \o/ 20:11
rurban Can you change that to: "MIME::Base64 - Why encoded strings are better -- rurban"
masak absolutely.
well, that's 14 slots filled out of 24. 14 is better than 8.
I would still like to see some more names in there.
rurban You can also add "parrot threads" It'll be nine, whiteknight or me 20:12
masak what date?
rurban 11
masak ok.
dalek : 871bf97 | (Carl Mäsak)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
[perl6advent-2012/schedule] better topic title
: 5e12e79 | (Carl Mäsak)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
[perl6advent-2012/schedule] 11: parrot threads
 20:13
masak who wants December 4th? 20:14
who wants December 6th?
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masak here's a list of possible topics: github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...instorming 20:14
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dalek : 2c3a4e5 | (Cédric VINCENT)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/topic-brainstorming:
Move topics already covered (masak++)
 20:19
masak cedrvint++ # thanks, meant to do that 20:20
skids being only tangentially CS/perlmongers encultured, wonders at the etymology of class Mu. 20:22
moritz we should have a FAQ about that
skids The first answer should say "because perl programmers find Moo too long to type." 20:23
cedrvint :)
Perl 6 programmers are I<lazy> 20:24
masak skids: lots of derivations. they're in S02, I believe. 20:25
yep: S02:4842
rurban I cannot even push to parrot. I guess I have to go to the movies now 20:26
masak that... is the natural conclusion. :)
cedrvint maybe I'll write something like: "Transliterating Mathematical equations to Perl 6", based on things written on RC. 20:27
masak cedrvint: ooh.
cedrvint masak: already done? 20:28
masak don't think so.
skids masak: I was leaning towards guessing at that one, but had a nagging suspicion it was something to do with μ
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masak .oO( the chances of it meaning that would have been micro-scopic... ) 20:32
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masak what the heck is unary sort? irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2011-12-14#i_4833227 20:37
moritz masak: @list.sort(&unary_function) 20:38
masak oooh
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masak so it's not the *sort* that's unary, it's the comparison function. 20:38
yes, I can totally see how that could be made into a topic. 20:39
I've been thinking about &by lately.
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timotimo what does it do? it's not in my rakudo yet 20:39
masak r: say [4, 2, 5, 1, 3].sort: { -$_ } 20:40
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«5 4 3 2 1␤»
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masak timotimo: it sorts things according to a scoring function. 20:40
r: say <the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog>.sort.sort: *.length 20:41
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«No such method 'length' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in block at /tmp/yRLGAPyv7d:1␤␤»
masak er :)
r: say <the quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog>.sort.sort: *.chars
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«dog fox the the lazy over brown quick jumped␤»
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dalek : 29ee054 | (Cédric VINCENT)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/schedule:
Claim one slot
 20:49
masak yay
20:51 rurban_ left
[Coke] is there a way to show all the subs visible in the current scope? (mainly to interrogate all the globals) 20:52
r: Any.^methods.sort.say 20:53
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS Array FLATTENABLE_HASH FLATTENABLE_LIST all any at_key at_pos classify eager elems end first flat grep hash infinite join keys kv list lol map max min minmax none one pairs pick postcircumfix:<[ ]> postcircumfix:<{ }> push reduce reverse roll sort tree uniq…
20:53 cognominal_ left
[Coke] r: Any.^methods.sort(uc *).say 20:53
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'uc' will never work with argument types (Whatever) (line 1)␤ Expected: :(Cool $s)␤»
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[Coke] r: Any.^methods.sort({uc *}).say 20:53
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'uc' will never work with argument types (Whatever) (line 1)␤ Expected: :(Cool $s)␤»
[Coke] r: Any.^methods.sort(uc).say
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'uc' will never work with no arguments (line 1)␤ Expected: :(Cool $s)␤»
timotimo r: Any.^methods.sort(*.uc).say 20:54
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«No such method 'uc' for invocant of type 'Method'␤ in block at /tmp/6xmTd6IKa6:1␤␤»
timotimo oh, of course
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timotimo r: Any.^methods.sort(*str.uc).say 20:54
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' at line 2, near "str.uc).sa"␤»
[Coke] r: Any.^methods.sort(*.name.uc).say
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«No such method 'uc' for invocant of type 'String'␤ in block at /tmp/fzsNm_5tXn:1␤␤»
timotimo oh, even more interesting
r: Any.^methods.sort(uc *.name).say
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'uc' will never work with argument types (WhateverCode) (line 1)␤ Expected: :(Cool $s)␤»
20:54 gugod joined
timotimo r: Any.^methods.sort({uc *.name}).say 20:54
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'uc' will never work with argument types (WhateverCode) (line 1)␤ Expected: :(Cool $s)␤»
masak r: .say for MY::.list 20:55
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«"GLOBALish" => 7␤"EXPORT" => 11␤"\$?PACKAGE" => 15␤"::?PACKAGE" => 19␤"\$_" => 23␤"\$/" => 27␤"\$!" => 31␤"\$=pod" => 35␤"!UNIT_MARKER" => 39␤»
masak I'm curious what those numbers mean.
timotimo r: Any.^methods.sort(-> {uc($^a.name)}).say 20:56
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Placeholder variable '$^a' cannot override existing signature␤at /tmp/msXvvWVbpD:1␤»
timotimo r: Any.^methods.sort(-> $a {uc($a.name)}).say
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS all any Array at_key at_pos classify eager elems end first flat FLATTENABLE_HASH FLATTENABLE_LIST grep hash infinite join keys kv list lol map max min minmax none one pairs pick postcircumfix:<[ ]> postcircumfix:<{ }> push reduce reverse roll sort tree uniq…
[Coke] \o/ !
timotimo i bet this is doable easierly
20:56 Khisanth left
[Coke] say 3.elems; 20:57
r: say 3.elems;
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«1␤»
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masak r: sub foo {}; .say if /^\&/ for MY::.keys 20:58
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«&foo␤»
masak [Coke]: that seems to do it.
moritz first post scheduled for publication at midnight 20:59
dalek : 2d602d9 | (Cédric VINCENT)++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/topic-brainstorming:
Add topics discussed on #perl6
moritz though I'm not sure which midnight -- probably UTC+1
masak so many midnights... 21:00
[Coke] masak: what about, say, "length" ?
moritz those with author privileges might be able to to preview it at perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=1109&a...eview=true
masak [Coke]: it's not in the current scope.
21:00 GlitchMr left
masak (it's in a higher scope) 21:00
[Coke] ok. I did specifically ask about globals.
r: say OUTER; 21:01
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«OUTER()␤»
[Coke] r: say OUTER::.keys
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«␤»
[Coke] r: say CORE::.keys
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«&undefine &prefix:<temp> &prefix:<let> &INDIRECT_NAME_LOOKUP &REQUIRE_IMPORT &infix:<andthen> &METAOP_ASSIGN &METAOP_TEST_ASSIGN:<//> &METAOP_TEST_ASSIGN:<||> &METAOP_TEST_ASSIGN:<&&> &METAOP_NEGATE &METAOP_REVERSE &METAOP_CROSS &METAOP_ZIP &METAOP_REDUCE_LEFT &MET…
masak [Coke]: yes. I misunderstood you. sorry.
21:01 gugod left
[Coke] CORE, then? 21:01
masak looks like.
[Coke] r: say CORE::.keys.grep(/le/); 21:02
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«&prefix:<let> &trim-leading &sleep &infix:<leg> &infix:<le> Iterable Complex &elems NQPCursorRole Callable &trait_mod:<handles>␤»
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masak moritz: url didn't work, but I was able to and find the article through Wordpress. reading. 21:02
[Coke] masak++
timotimo++
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timotimo r: Any.^methods.map(*.name).sort(uc *).say 21:03
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Calling 'uc' will never work with argument types (Whatever) (line 1)␤ Expected: :(Cool $s)␤»
timotimo r: Any.^methods.map(*.name).sort(uc $^a).say 21:04
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use placeholder parameter $^a in the mainline␤at /tmp/YiHclCGUgE:1␤»
timotimo r: Any.^methods.map(*.name).sort(uc $^a).say
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use placeholder parameter $^a in the mainline␤at /tmp/Lko2_uwNDo:1␤»
timotimo r: Any.^methods.map(*.name).sort({uc $^a}).say
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«ACCEPTS all any Array at_key at_pos classify eager elems end first flat FLATTENABLE_HASH FLATTENABLE_LIST grep hash infinite join keys kv list lol map max min minmax none one pairs pick postcircumfix:<[ ]> postcircumfix:<{ }> push reduce reverse roll sort tree uniq…
timotimo not sure which one is nicer.
moritz masak: oh, I didn't mention macros at all. Feel free to fudge 'em in :-)
masak heh :)
21:04 spider-mario left
masak moritz: "It surely has been a good and productive year for Perl 6, and let&#039;s hope that this last month stays the same." -- something about that 'and' feels wrong to me. 21:05
moritz masak: should probably be ; let's hope ...
masak it changes the sense of the sentence from "there's a good chance it will" to "don't you cause it not to" for me.
[Coke] "and we're sure that this last month will continue the tradition." 21:06
timotimo :D
masak moritz: by the way, I still haven't completely dismissed the idea of switching topics with you.
moritz masak: :-)
[Coke]: I like that sentence
masak (collaborative writing)++
dalek : 5862528 | moritz++ | misc/perl6advent-2012/ (2 files):
[p6advent] claim days 1 and 6; add some references to prior art
 21:09
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cedrvint moritz: (warning: WP newbie) I'm not able to read your article 21:11
moritz cedrvint: please try again 21:13
cedrvint: I've changed your role from "author" to "editor"
cedrvint is trying again 21:14
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skids r: gist.github.com/4178797 # I'll file an RT for this later (-1 +> * should be -1), unless someone knows of one already. 21:41
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/koE6maiInZ:1␤»
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skids oh why did I r: that? Feh. 21:43
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lue r: my $a = "abc"; say ("def" != $a); # LTA error message? 23:07
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏def' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:10175␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2806␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2806␤ in s…
sorear awesome error message 23:08
eval: "abc" == "def"
buubot_backup sorear: 1
sorear eval: use warnings; "abc" == "def"
buubot_backup sorear: Argument "def" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at (eval 20) line 1. Argument "abc" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at (eval 20) line 1. 1
flussence n: "abc" == "def" 23:10
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: abc␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3542 (ANON @ 11) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3544 (NumSyntax.str2num @ 5) ␤ at …
flussence rp: "abc" == "def"
lue It took me a while to remember !eq is what I meant. The error message made me think something somewhere was erroneously trying to convert a string to a number.
sorear lue: no, something was *correctly* trying to convert a string to a number 23:11
lue: == means "convert both arguments to number, then compare"
masak lue: also, infix:<ne>
sorear ne converts both to string
masak as in "not equal"..
sorear !=== leaves both arguments as-is
flussence nrp: "abc" == "def" 23:12
p6eval niecza v22-44-g0247fe5: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: abc␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3542 (ANON @ 11) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3544 (NumSyntax.str2num @ 5) ␤ at …
..rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏abc' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:10175␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2806␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2806␤ in b…
..pugs: ( no output )
sorear p: say "abc" == "def"
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1␤»
lue I know. It's just that I have yet to internalize the difference between string and number comparison, and I think the error message could maybe hint towards that possible mistake (like a lot of errors do). 23:13
flussence I wonder if this is a feasible thing to do: when an exception gets stringified, have it check the call stack and substitute a more meaningful message then. 23:14
lue (I see above that P5 warns that.)
flussence I mean, adding extra type-checking into infix:<==> itself and making it generate the error itself would work, but then you're putting stuff in hot code paths 23:16
lue To me, the P6 error message emphasized what a string needs to be converted to a number when I wasn't directly converting a number, making me think something was wrong with one of the sides of the equality, not the equality itself. 23:18
(in other words, the error message was correct, but the advice was wrong.) 23:20
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flussence maybe we need Carp.pm built in :) 23:23
(it makes more sense if you chop the first two layers of backtrace off)
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lue Yea. But I always ignore backtraces into CORE.setting, 'cos a problem there I can only work around. (So i didn't even register the problem occurring at one point in infix:<==>) 23:25
Maybe the message could be "Cannot convert arguments to numbers for numeric equality (infix:<==>); maybe you meant infix:<eq> or infix:<~~> ?" ? 23:29
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whooguy i vote for that message. Very good suggestion lue 23:34
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flussence r: gist.github.com/4179531 23:38
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏abc' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:10175␤ in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2758␤ in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2758␤ in blo…
flussence -EIRCLINESTOOSHORT 23:39
r: gist.github.com/4179531
p6eval rakudo 0bfba1: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏abc' (indicated by ⏏)␤Cannot convert string to number (Did you mean infix:<eq> or infix:<~~>?): base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏abc' (indicated by ⏏)␤»…
flussence there you go :) 23:40
lue :)
masak flussence++! 23:41
that is awesome, testing a compiler extension outside of the compiler. 23:42
flussence took me a while, because augment {} didn't work there... 23:43
lue did you try use MONKEY_TYPING; ?
flussence yeah, it doesn't like me trying to override methods that aren't declared multi 23:44
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lue is X::Str::Numeric specifically for infix:<==> ? (If not, I can't see where it only works for infix:<==>) 23:45
flussence the postfix "if" 23:46
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lue oh. duh. 23:48
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