»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 1fde6da | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 00:07
rl6-roast-data: c18b898 | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
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timotimo why is it always(?) two commits? 00:19
[Coke] one a day
so that's saturday and sunday.
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[Coke] I just didn't push yesterday. 00:19
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rjbs So, say I was porting some p5 code to p6, hypothetically. 00:26
and I'd been making a fair amount of use of p5's pack and unpack
What do I want to look at in p6?
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[Coke] Str's pack and unpack methods. But I'm not sure they've seen much love. 00:32
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[Coke] r: Buf.new(:16<41>).say 00:36
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<41>␤»
[Coke] r: Buf.new(:16<41>).unpack("H*").say 00:37
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«41␤»
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TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Last_letter-fi...ter#Perl_6 04:28
3 more to get to 500 04:29
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nwc10 jnthn++ # 16% of the NQP test suite passing already 06:14
TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Break_OO_privacy#Perl_6 06:21
2 more to go
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diakopter :) 06:35
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TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Introspection#Perl_6 07:25
1 to go
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jnthn Go TimToady++ 08:09
:)
FROGGS morning 08:10
jnthn hi FROGGS 08:11
FROGGS hi
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sorear hi FROGGS 08:13
FROGGS hi sorear 08:14
sorear: is niecza STD-based too, like rakudo/nom?
jnthn Niecza is closer to STD than Rakudo in some places (used to be way closer, but Rakudo has converged a lot) 08:18
aku
oops
sorear niecza is STD-based.
FROGGS hmmm, so I can even steal stuff from niecza :o)
sorear it has diverged from STD in places, but the grammar was created by copying STD and editing the parts that didn't work. :D 08:19
FROGGS thats the point, I try to get nom closer to STD when it comes to contextualizers in regexes, but right now I cant compile the setting 08:20
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jnthn ok, teaching time :) 08:29
will be around now and then today...
nwc10 coffee assimilated?
hoelzro morning #perl6, I see I have messages =)
phenny hoelzro: 27 Jan 12:09Z <timotimo> tell hoelzro do you feel like you can open a pull request for your pygments work soon? or do you want more testing to be done first?
hoelzro: 27 Jan 12:21Z <timotimo> tell hoelzro the only issues i can see with it are: @!foo has a red, fat ! and +@($block) has a red, fat ($ in it, so everything that looks remotely like a twigil (thrigil?) seems to get that treatment
hoelzro thank you, phenny 08:30
TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Echo_server#Perl_6 08:33
That's 500, though I cheated by putting up non-working code
FROGGS someone should fix async then^^ 08:34
but it sounds like a lot of work
TimToady well, to do it so that threads can't block other threads, yes 08:35
hoelzro timotimo: ping 08:36
GlitchMr 500. Perfect :-).
TimToady should be trivial once NQP is ported to Go :P
GlitchMr Hmmm... how many tasks Rosetta Code does have?
"630 tasks"
Sounds like we are closer and closer to having Perl 6 example in every task
Except that appears to include draft tasks, so not really. 08:37
TimToady Tcl has 687 implemented already
FROGGS 's brain matched "500" as token http-error-code rather than token number-of-rc-tasks 08:38
arnsholt jnthn: In an attempt to debug my nativesize stuff, I added debug prints to NativeHow's compose and the nativesize trait. From the interleaving of the prints, it seems the trait is applied -after- the HOW's compose is called
nwc10 TimToady: I saw the smiley. But, serious question - Go assumes UTF-8 pervasively, doesn't it? That's going to be a bit, well, suboptimal, for NFG?
GlitchMr Perhaps I should try solving 24 game in Perl 6
TimToady as long as Go supports native integer arrays, we can easily implement NFG
"easily"
hoelzro hmm 08:39
moritz FROGGS: heh, I work in an office with number 408 REQUEST TIMEOUT :-)
hoelzro what does +@($block) mean? timotimo pointed it out in his syntax examples
TimToady usually, same as +$block does
GlitchMr hoelzro, it gives number of elements in array. 08:40
hoelzro ah, I see
TimToady nr: my $array := <a b c d e>; say +$arrray
GlitchMr Except with block, I think it's always 1.
p6eval niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $arrray is not predeclared at /tmp/afgeGvo30d line 1:␤------> my $array := <a b c d e>; say +⏏$arrray␤␤Potential difficulties:␤ $array is declared but not used at /tmp/afgeGvo30d line 1:␤------> …
..rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable '$arrray' is not declared. Did you mean '$array'?␤at /tmp/buQyArygVD:1␤------> my $array := <a b c d e>; say +$arrray⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
TimToady nr: my $array := <a b c d e>; say +$array
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79, niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«5␤» 08:41
FROGGS moritz: hehe, nice, that would fit here too :o)
TimToady well, if you know it's a block, why are you asking it how many of it there are?
nwc10 TimToady: yes. True. I seem to be forgetting that Java thinks that UTF-16 is the way to go. :-( Silly me.
TimToady yes, well, we can do NFG there too, presumably 08:42
nwc10 exactly. I'd already assumed that to be a SMOP, so why should I treat Go differently. Clearly insufficient coffee 08:43
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nwc10 moritz: I remembered. The first issue with constant folding on Perl 5 may not apply to Perl 6 -- $SIG{__WARN__} 08:46
$SIG{__WARN__} is dynamic. For correctness (ie, as if no optimisation had taken place), warnings should be dispatched at runtime to the dynamic warning handler
moritz: the IRC logger index for a channel generates no link for a particular day if there is no activity. Is there a way to filter out days when a channel only has parts and joins? (ie no chat, just tumbleweeds) 08:48
moritz nwc10: ($SIG{__WARN__}) that one's nasty
nwc10: no, not yet, but would be pretty easy to do 08:49
nwc10 moritz: that would be cool
although having it running on Rakudo would also be cool :-) 08:50
dogfood for the long term win
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mathw morning all 08:59
FROGGS morning mathw 09:00
moritz nwc10: my plan is to port the logger itself first, because that's less performance critical
nwc10 oh, interesting. I would have thought that the logger is (also) the part that must not fail, else there is data loss 09:01
however, the easy answer to that is run two loggers - Perl 5, and Rakudo
(and diff the output)
moritz nwc10++ # constant nagging about dogfooding 09:04
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nwc10 yes, sorry if I sound like a broken record. But 09:05
a) I think that it's one of the reasons that Parrot went wrong
b) Actually a way to make your build system more portable
c) A way to make your system more maintainable. (Much like self-hosting is, or at least, has massive advantages in that area) 09:06
moritz you don't have to apologize; I even ++'ed you for it :-) 09:07
nwc10 I also realised last night that, well, nothing serious is written in Perl 6. Except an entire compiler. 09:08
Which, actually, is pretty damn cool. And proof that it isn't a toy.
but it would be nice to have other things :-)
moritz I totally agree 09:09
nwc10 also, what rjbs asked last night about pack - I'd guess that the bits of Perl 6 that are needed to write compilers are pretty much fleshed out. 09:12
But compilers are not the only fruit.
moritz I totally agree 09:13
our native call interface, and DBIish in extension, could use some good bit of extra stability :-) 09:14
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arnsholt moritz: BTW, you mentioned some time ago that you managed to trigger segfaults with Zavolaj in DBIish 09:16
What was the issue again_
s/_/? 09:17
moritz arnsholt: doing too much stuff in a postgres database
arnsholt Doing too much stuff?
moritz preparing and executing a lot of different queries
each of them didn't segfault in isolation
arnsholt Weird 09:18
moritz I'll try to re-test on a newer toolchain soon
arnsholt That'd be cool. I think it might smell of some kind of Zavolaj issue 09:19
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GlitchMr rn: gist.github.com/4654154 09:23
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p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot call 'trait_mod:<is>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U $child, Mu:U $parent)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, :rw(:$rw)!)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, :readonly(:$readonly)!)␤:(Attribute:D $attr, :box_target(:$box_target)!)␤:(Routine:D $r, … 09:23
..niecza v24-18-gaf64300: OUTPUT«True␤Unhandled exception: Ambiguous call to infix:<in>; these signatures all match:␤ Any, Any␤ Any, Any␤ at /tmp/ydXsQDK2s1 line 7 (mainline @ 10) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4218 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.set…
GlitchMr std: gist.github.com/4654154
kresike hello all you happy perl6 people
p6eval std 7deb9d7: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot negate in because additive operators are not iffy enough at /tmp/DVsJ_IO66Z line 7:␤------> say 2 !in⏏ (1, 22, 23);␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 53m␤»
GlitchMr Am I using proto subs incorrectly or what? 09:24
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FROGGS maybe you must create your own infix:<!in> ? 09:27
GlitchMr It's not that
Well, std complains about that.
But the errors in rakudo and niecza say something else. 09:28
FROGGS ahh, sorry, looked at the wrong msg
GlitchMr Niecza appears to parse multi sub correctly.
Except it seems it doesn't know whatever it should use ($a, $b) as signature or ($a, @b).
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FROGGS GlitchMr: if you try that locally, do you see the three signatures in the list? 09:34
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GlitchMr No, only two. 09:35
The ($a, %b) signature isn't involved in array check.
arnsholt r: my int8 $x = 1024; say $x
GlitchMr The problem is that ($a, $b) has exactly the same weight as ($a, @b) and ($a, %b)
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«1024␤»
arnsholt Does the spec say anything about what's supposed to happen in that case? 09:36
GlitchMr I will check
TimToady rosettacode.org/wiki/Carmichael_3_s...sis#Perl_6
to make up for cheating on #500 :) 09:37
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TimToady --> bed 09:39
FROGGS TimToady: gnight
GlitchMr But I would assume :($a, @b) is more specific than :($a, $b) because @b requires type to be Positional. 09:40
moritz r: multi a($, $) { 1 }; multi a ($, @) { 2 }; say a(42, @*INC) 09:41
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz looks like it is. 09:42
GlitchMr In Rakudo, not in Niecza
moritz ok
GlitchMr I think it could be niecza bug, but not sure.
Still, I guess I will report it.
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moritz please do 09:47
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GlitchMr github.com/sorear/niecza/issues/168 09:49
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jnthn arnsholt: (called after) that's very weird, and if so a bug... 09:53
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arnsholt jnthn: Right. I'll try to narrow it down, in that case 09:57
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arnsholt So, trying to print the $!nativesize of my natives I get "Method 'Str' not found for invocant of class 'Int'". How do I get the damn thing printed? 10:15
(Mucking about with different nqp:: stuff hasn't gotten me far) 10:16
jnthn heh, you're in the setting so it's not defined yet ;)
nqp::say(nqp::unbox_i($!nativesize)) perhaps
arnsholt Hmm. From the Perl 6 side, it looks like it's correct 10:17
jnthn lunch * 10:20
& even
arnsholt may have found it
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arnsholt Heh. "Method 'Int' not found for invocant of class 'Int'" 10:27
Hopefully judicious unboxing takes care of that 10:28
Victory!
(Also, I am a moron)
When the code expects {integer => {bits => $!nativesize}}, better not pass {bits => $!nativesize} 10:31
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arnsholt 'Cuz that just plain won't work 10:31
FROGGS :o)
it's obvious after you found out, right? 10:32
arnsholt Ridiculously so
And yet, completely inscrutable up until the moment you realize what it is =)
It works! 10:49
And now I get to debug segfaults =D
FROGGS *g* 10:50
gorram it, it's hard to hack javascript and php at work while there is such a nice language out there ó.ò
jnthn arnsholt++ 10:56
arnsholt Not quite done yet, but at least I squashed the inscrutable bug 10:58
I think my current segfault may be due to a waterbed distribution of sized int support =) 10:59
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jnthn Well, P6opaque is clueless about aligning 'em for one :) 11:07
moritz alignment is overrated :-) 11:08
jnthn On x86, mostly yes :P
moritz ... unless you actually want to use the stuff :-)
jnthn But getting it wrong on some other platforms can be 'ARMful...
nwc10 groans 11:09
jnthn
.oO( I shouldn't be such a bright Sparc... )
nwc10 x86, ELF and glibc have a lot to answer for
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nwc10 oh, and ld.so 11:09
nwc10 will be much HPPAier when the puns are exhausted 11:10
jnthn I gotta teach now, so they should go down like the itanic :)
nwc10 please give me alpha mo to make another one 11:11
moritz like, with overlong movie coverage?
though it wouldn't have gone down with a hull made of Itanium 11:12
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GlitchMr I hate DoS attacks... 11:38
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timotimo hoelzro: pong 12:41
hoelzro ping 12:46
timotimo: thanks for testing out the highlighter!
I wasn't able to reproduce the issues you saw, though =/
timotimo huh? 12:51
(to be fair, this is nqp code, but it shouldn't matter) 12:52
hoelzro timotimo: well, you said that you saw an issue when highlighting @!foo, right?
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timotimo types some examples for a screenshot 12:56
you're right. in isolation it doesn't "break", but i've found something else 12:57
hoelzro ok, good! 12:58
timotimo t.h8.lv/hoelzpygment.png
hoelzro ah, so $!privattr is busted? 12:59
timotimo seems so
hoelzro =/
well, thanks for the input!
timotimo you're welcome 13:00
rakudo/src/Perl6/Optimizer.pm gave me the strange effects, fwiw. starts right near the beginning
hoelzro timotimo: are you going to keep that screenshot up? or should I make a copy? 13:01
ok, cool!
timotimo any way you like. i can also nopaste the code :P
hoelzro I'll probably just look at the rakudo source, thanks =) 13:02
timotimo you're welcome
maybe i should invest some time in proper syntax highlighting, too. vims highlighter has some problems with / ... / i think 13:03
hoelzro timotimo: help on Vim's highlighting would be most welcome! 13:04
I try to fix bits (for both Perl 5 and 6), but I never seem to find time for it
help on the pygments highlighter for Perl 6 would also be appreciated =) 13:07
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nwc10 why is GCD one of the NQP ops? 13:25
jnthn Because we do it often enough that we want it fast. 13:26
(Rat)
timotimo hoelzro: how does one correctly work on that? would i get the vim sources from whatever repo they have and copypaste the syntax file to my home folder?
moritz because we need it in Perl 6, and our bigint lib provices it
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hoelzro timotimo: here's what I do: I have a clone of github.com/vim-perl/vim-perl in ~/projects/ 13:27
timotimo wow, i know english champions verbing nouns, but "provinces"? :D
hoelzro and I have a branch in my ~/.vim repo called vim-perl-work
jnthn timotimo: We should province people who do that...
timotimo i don't even know what that means!
hoelzro vim-perl-work is a single commit ahead of master, and simply adds a symlink to ~/projects/vim-perl to Vim's runtime path
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hoelzro so whenver I work on vim-perl, I just cd ~/.vim; git co vim-perl-work 13:28
timotimo oh, that's clever
where does the symlink go? could i just do it with pathogen like i do all my other extensions? 13:29
hoelzro timotimo: yeah, mine's under ~/.vim/bundle/vim-perl
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nwc10 jnthn: aha. I hadn't realised that. Thanks 13:45
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arnsholt Segfault squashed. Onto the next failure! 14:38
moritz arnsholt++ # vanquisher of segfaults! 14:40
arnsholt Segfaults are generally easier to fix than braindead typos =)
moritz unless it's the result of a braindead typo :-) 14:41
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timotimo substitute "at least as easy" :P 14:42
arnsholt Hmm. This next one seems to be size-related as well 14:43
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moritz
.oO( well-sized failures )
 14:43
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timotimo what's that, lassie? arnsholt fell into the well? oh boy! 14:44
arnsholt Score! 14:47
Now that I think about it, I think this is one of those that might have always failed on 64-bit
(Due to lack of sized-int support =) 14:48
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dalek kudo/dyncall-sized-num: c7fe112 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/NativeHOW.pm:
Fix braino. NativeHOW sent bad data to the REPR compose.
 14:54
volaj: 20b41e7 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/06-struct. (2 files):
Add tests for sized ints in structs.

Also tweaks the array member of structs test a bit (and once we have sized ints in arrays it should likely be updated again).		 14:55
p/dyncall-sized-num: b4e360b | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/ (2 files):
Fix two brainos.

One in P6int.c; if you're gonna reset the bit value to the default just before returning, you're gonna have a bad time. Another in CStruct.c; ensuring proper alignment wasn't done properly.
arnsholt And there we go. Initial support for sized ints in structs
Sized nums and arrays are still to be done, but I think the hard part is mostly done
FROGGS discovered the viv utility right now O.o 14:56
timotimo is there something like ctags for perl6 yet? if not, i would assume something like that could be somewhat easily be built in nqp, no?
FROGGS ctags?
timotimo it parses code and creates an index for where objects, methods, subs, variables, ... are defined 14:57
so that your IDE/text editor can "jump to symbol under cursor"
FROGGS ahh
would be nice to have, yes
timotimo don't know if the ctags project would accept nqp code, though :P 14:58
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arnsholt Probably not 15:02
Might be a cool thing to do though
I guess leveraging STD might be a viable approach, and then outputting the proper format 15:03
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pmurias timotimo: re ctags for perl6, I don't think there is a good reason to integrate with the officials ctags binary, as it should be possible to the ctags format from a standalone tool 15:16
timotimo right
is there more than just ... in perl6?
moritz well, there is a good reason: several editors already have key bindings for invoking ctags
timotimo: yes, ??? and !!! too 15:17
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timotimo ah! 15:17
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moritz doc.perl6.org/!!! 15:17
timotimo the syn google search is super useless for these 15:18
moritz aye
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kresike bye folks 16:09
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jnthn decommute & 16:17
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GlitchMr .u  16:46
phenny U+F8FF (No name found)
GlitchMr 'Chrome 24.0.1312 on Mac OS X 10.8.2537' 16:47
I'm almost sure it's Apple logo then.
benabik I see an Apple on my Apple. 16:48
GlitchMr Somebody on certain forum has used that symbol and I was wondering why my font doesn't support it. 16:49
According to the profile page, he was using Mac OS X... makes sense.
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[Coke] m/me readds RFC#101 from timo and is no more enlightened. 16:50
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[Coke] er, no, slightly. 16:51
GlitchMr duckduckgo.com/?q=%EF%A3%BF
DuckDuckGo somehow shows Apple Inc...
duckduckgo.com/?q=perl6+Int.Str 16:52
benabik_ F8FF is the top of the Private Use section of the Unicode. Apple using it for an apple logo is probably the most common use of it.
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timotimo [Coke]: can i help you? 16:54
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[Coke] Why the temp var? 16:58
to avoid issues where reading the value had a side effect?
timotimo yes, exactly
[Coke] danke.
timotimo gerne doch :)
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FROGGS jnthn, moritz: do you have an idea where "No such method 'Any' for invocant of type 'Str'" comes from? 17:02
gist.github.com/9307c7681cfb9ff34d...om_dbg-txt
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FROGGS jnthn, moritz: btw, /$( a )/ does complain now about unknown sub &a, like std 17:10
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jnthn FROGGS: Not sure where the error comes from 17:11
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FROGGS jnthn: do you wanna see the QAST dump? 17:20
jnthn FROGGS: You seem to have some debugging code. Is it that which leads to the error? 17:21
FROGGS the debuggung stuff just prints $/ within the action methods 17:22
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FROGGS dont think that this produces the error, since I got the error even without my debug stuff 17:23
jnthn ok
I can take a look at the patch
FROGGS gist.github.com/9307c7681cfb9ff34d...t_dump-txt
the grammar is fine now, since it gets to the tokens similar to STD's viv output 17:24
there is just something borken with the AST
jnthn Yeah, I can read the diff of what you did faster than the QAST dump :) 17:25
FROGGS the qast dump is pretty neat, but yes, the diff isnt that heavy 17:26
jnthn yeah, something looks wrong...
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jnthn bbs 17:30
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moritz FROGGS: is that error from compiling the setting? 17:46
FROGGS no, afterwards 17:47
I believe it tries to call something on the thing enclosed by '$(' ~ ')'
because the type changes when I do: /$(1)/ and /$("a")/ 17:48
moritz r: /a/
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: ( no output )
moritz r: m/a/
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«No such method 'match' for invocant of type 'Any'␤ in block at /tmp/93Ut_nlQjv:1␤␤»
moritz in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/CORE.setting:10733 17:49
which ACCEPTS is that?
FROGGS the second one is because $_ isnt set, IMO
$_.ACCEPTS( match result ) 17:50
brb linch
lunch
moritz FROGGS: when you're back, please try ./perl6 -e 'say "1" ~~ /$( say .perl )/ 17:51
FROGGS moritz: No such method 'Any' for invocant of type 'Bool' 17:58
but it prints "1" directly before that 17:59
[Coke] r: (say "1").WHAT.say
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«1␤Bool()␤»
moritz FROGGS: so it tries to call the method Any on the return value of the expression 18:00
FROGGS so it might be in method metachar:sym<rakvar> 18:01
moritz in any at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:836 18:02
usually the format is in sub foo at ...
where 'sub' is lc $routine.^name 18:03
so, something gets invoked which is of type Any
r: Any()
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«No such method 'Any' for invocant of type 'Parcel'␤ in at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:845␤ in at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:839␤ in any at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:836␤ in block at /tmp/zG8KOzVLWd:1␤␤»
moritz OH
r: Any('foo')
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«No such method 'Any' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:839␤ in any at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:836␤ in block at /tmp/pPJV8pI1MT:1␤␤»
moritz that's the backtrace you're getting, right? 18:04
FROGGS No such method 'Any' for invocant of type 'Int'
in at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:839
in any at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:836
yes, it is
18:04 b1rkh0ff left
FROGGS r: Any(1) # this 18:05
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«No such method 'Any' for invocant of type 'Int'␤ in at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:839␤ in any at src/gen/BOOTSTRAP.pm:836␤ in block at /tmp/ZVM1ERdYJq:1␤␤»
18:06 b1rkh0ff joined
moritz ah, now I see 18:06
the regex engine tries to invoke the result from the $(...) as a regex
FROGGS: you need to change the codgen to go through method Cursor.INTEROLATE 18:07
tadzik hello hello
moritz like other variable interpolation in regexes
tadzik tadzik
FROGGS moritz: I thought it was the same with INTERPOLATE, but will test now 18:08
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FROGGS moritz: do you think it would be easy to dump out all matched tokens like STD's viv script? 18:11
moritz FROGGS: depends on your notion of "easy" :-) 18:12
not as easy as a single method call
but certainly not very hard
TimToady
.oO(MHF)
 18:13
FROGGS okay, sounds possible then ;o)
18:13 spider-mario joined
FROGGS mhf? 18:14
TimToady Mid Hanging Fruit
FROGGS ahh
18:14 spider-mario_ left
TimToady maybe we need a Hanging-Fruit-o-Meter 18:14
FROGGS and then you know how tall you are in that measurement 18:15
nwc10 why does this make me think raw ... not yet ... edible ... wasps are going to get it ... compost
possibly because the pears on my parents tree seemed to quantum tunnel between the 2nd and 4th steps, effortlessly 18:16
TimToady 1 HF == 1 Hckr × 1 Tuit
FROGGS does that mean that there is nothing to do when there is no hacker? 18:17
TimToady no, you just use calculus to multiple 0 Hckr × ∞ Tuit to end up with 1 hanging fruit equivalent 18:18
*multiply 18:20
FROGGS and I stupid dungbag didnt took a round tuit from the tables from last YAPC :o(
tadzik I didn't know they're for picking up :|
FROGGS well, they are lying around... 18:21
I didnt know too at that time too
tadzik: I would buy them if they would be sold by tpf, but it looks like they weren't sold that way 18:22
tadzik they can be sold by anyone else and I'd buy them anyway :) 18:23
FROGGS yes sure, but if I could spend some money to tpf at the same moment that would be better 18:24
tadzik let's do a startup 18:25
then we can say it's Perl6-based
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moritz hey, I've recently come across a service that does custom laser cutting and engraving 18:32
tadzik in any material? 18:33
moritz not any, but they have a wide selection, and are willing to experiment with more
tadzik cool beans
[Coke] would love a tuit that was heavy enough to be a card protector.
moritz but I guess laser-cutting wood isn't a good option :-)
www.formulor.de/
A friend of mine ordered stuff there, and it was in the order of 25€ or so 18:34
tadzik that's awesome
now to find a use for it... ;)
maybe a nice combo with thegamecrafter
moritz well, custom tuits :-)
with camelia laser-engraved 18:35
tadzik and a 1:1 camelia model
as it'd probably be too big for a 3d printer
TimToady in depleted uranium, preferably
moritz what, you can laser-cut leather?
that's awesome :-)
seems they don't support metal :( 18:37
TimToady just tell 'em that metal is what they've removed from the depleted uranium, so they're good to go 18:41
.oO("No, that's not metal, it's just thermite.")
 18:43
FROGGS prefers transparent aluminium
moritz: I get the same result when using the code from method assertion:sym<{ }> 18:45
... which calls MAKE_REGEX and then interpolates 18:46
moritz huh, strange
FROGGS which is:
r: say "abc" ~~ /<{"a"}>/ 18:47
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤␤»
18:47 werwerwer joined
timotimo t.h8.lv/gosper_thinkpad.jpeg <- had this laser-cut into his laptop recently 18:47
gotta run now
18:48 hoelzro|away is now known as hoelzro
hoelzro damn! 18:48
FROGGS timotimo: nice
18:48 mtk left
hoelzro timotimo: don't leave! 18:48
I just uploaded a new version of the lexer!
someone needs to test it! 18:49
tadzik I'll take the ring to mordor
FROGGS hands out a bag of lembas bread to tadzik 18:50
18:50 japhb_ left
TimToady
.oO(lambdas bread)
 18:50
tadzik at least it's pure :)
hoelzro haha 18:51
moritz TimToady: that makes you Galadriel, right? :-) 18:53
TimToady that, and the little matter of power-hunger 18:57
Rule 2: When Galadriel makes a mistake with the One Ring, she's still right. 18:58
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TimToady
.oO(Santa's elves forge rings for Santa, who then forges his own Ring to let him fly very fast once a year)
 19:34
Santa is really from the South Pole, so he'd have access to Mt Erebus. 19:35
dalek p-jvm-prep: 056979a | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
Fix !"string".
 19:38
p-jvm-prep: 4ab9860 | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/KnowHOWBootstrapper.java:
Give some boot types a bool spec.
p-jvm-prep: a712ae4 | jnthn++ | nqp-jvm-cc.nqp:
Fix prefix ~ and + compilation thinkos.
p-jvm-prep: 688ed7f | jnthn++ | t/nqp/ (2 files):
Two more passing test files.
nwc10 26% of test files, 21% of tests? 19:42
TimToady small test files are easier to pass than large ones :) 19:43
jnthn nwc10: heh, I'm not keeping a close watch :) 19:47
nwc10 I was just curious. So I tried to do the numbers.
I believe 100%, 100% and a pony (or failing that, a beer) is the goal?
possibly more than one beer?
jnthn Something like, but note that this is t/nqp and then there's also t/qregex :) 19:50
benabik I think the goal is always more than one beer.
TimToady a cup of non-java?
nwc10 ah, so this is twenty-muble percent of t/nqp?
19:50 jaldhar left
nwc10 and t/qregex is a whole new counting system? 19:50
TimToady read that as 'twenty-mule' 19:51
nwc10 hopefully not involving too many Alephs
jnthn nwc10: yeah, but it's a bit more convoluted 'cus some of the t/nqp also need regex stuff. :)
nwc10 (got to look on the bright side)
jnthn nwc10: Also, a couple of t/nqp are Parrot-specific and so meaningless to run.
nwc10 pass! 19:52
(actually, that's a pun)
wasn't intended to be
jnthn :P
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arnsholt jnthn: if without braces is bad style ;p 19:59
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jnthn arnsholt: And 2 chars less to type! ;) 20:00
benabik 3 if you put the closing brace on its own line. (more if you're manually indenting, but who does that?) 20:02
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dalek p-jvm-prep: 1b1c969 | jnthn++ | lib/QAST/JASTCompiler.nqp:
Implement resultchild handling.
 20:07
p-jvm-prep: f241d98 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/ (2 files):
Two more passing test files.
nwc10 is whatever counts the Karma running on Perl 6, or on something that wraps integers? 20:08
jnthn karma jnthn 20:09
not running :P
tadzik ENOALOHA
benabik "seen aloha" is not a very useful command...
20:11 SmokeMac_ joined, SmokeMac_ left
diakopter seen #perl6 20:12
arnsholt jnthn: Any particular reason there's a repr_get_attr_str, but no corresponding repr_at_pos_str?
(I may have asked this before, come to think of it) 20:13
benabik At any rate, I think aloha is running on P5.
(When it's running)
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jnthn arnsholt: NYIness 20:13
arnsholt That's a good reason =) 20:14
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dalek p-jvm-prep: 063ec8a | jnthn++ | lib/QAST/JASTCompiler.nqp:
Implement mod_n.
 20:15
p-jvm-prep: cd1b7f0 | jnthn++ | t/nqp/47-loop-control.t:
Another passing test.
20:15 SmokeMachine left 20:16 benabik left
spider-mario “It had been a decade since Perl 6 was announced, and I figured a full official release must be around the corner. But here we are in 2013, and that day seems even further away. Sure, there are variations considered to be Perl 6, such as Rakudo Perl, which is a specific implementation of Perl 6, but isn't, technically, Perl 6.” 20:18
if that means that there isn’t a release of Perl6, it means that by definition, there won’t ever be any
which is absurd 20:19
( www.infoworld.com/d/data-center/pe...rse-211580 ) 20:20
jnthn hm, sounds like somebody is confused.
And doesn't know the "Perl 6 is the language / spec" thing
spider-mario hm, it seems that this point has been taken care of on reddit
“That's a little bit like saying "GCC isn't, technically, C." Does he think Rakudo is some kind of ActiveState treatment of Perl 6 or is he genuinely being... disingenuous?”
spider-mario upvotes 20:21
nwc10 A default installation of Red Hat Enterprise Linux today incorporates Perl 5.10, which was released in 2007
and, um, whose "fault" is that?
spider-mario www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/17fk...ses_tiobe/
PerlJam Maybe the "perl is dead" story is just what people publish when they've got nothing else. 20:23
decasm so, perl is a zombie?
spider-mario or “I don’t see blog posts about perl so it must be dead”
masak o/, #perl6
spider-mario from people that don’t even look for them 20:24
o/ masak
20:24 crazedpsyc left, crazedpsyc joined
spider-mario it’s perfectly understandable that perl users have given up on speaking about perl to non-perl users, considering the feedback they usually get 20:24
“booh line noise”
“$@&{} is executable in perl”
tadzik PerlJam: sure. Look at the attention they got :) 20:25
therefore it's quite reasonable to publish such things
spider-mario “I used to like perl but I realized I can’t look at the code I wrote 3 days ago.”
tadzik I'm glad (s)he's not in my team :) 20:26
20:26 benabik joined
dalek p-jvm-prep: 9108672 | jnthn++ | nqp-src/NQPCORE.setting:
Add a cheating NQPMu.

In reality, it should be a class, but we don't deserialize P6opaques just yet.		 20:27
p-jvm-prep: 67fa8fd | jnthn++ | t/nqp/ (3 files):
3 more passing test files.
20:27 erkan left
jnthn Files=23, Tests=197 :) 20:28
TimToady The funny thing about naysayers is that, when we eventually succeed, they'll just assume it's because we fixed whatever they were naysaying, just because they naysaid it, and not because we were assiduously non-carborunduming the illigitimi. 20:29
tadzik jnthn: you know what it is... ragefac.es/154 ;)
arnsholt Hmm. Maybe I don't have to do the bits inout argument thing for arrays
jnthn If it's the obama... 20:30
bah! :P
tadzik :P
I'm predictable
arnsholt likes the Obama-not-bad-face
masak it's not bad :P 20:31
arnsholt =D
masak today's autopun: twitter.com/alyankovic/status/2955...9839594496 20:32
tadzik that fits the situation better: i.imgur.com/4AC7j0n.png 20:34
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nwc10 I don't offhand have a way to check, but presumably a default install of RedHat also comes with Python 2.7, which Guido would rather you didn't use, and Ruby 1.8.7? or 1.8.6? Which is viewed as special biologist word 20:46
masak "parasite"? :P 20:49
arnsholt My work RHEL6 machine has Python 2.6.6 20:50
No Ruby installed, so can't check that =)
Perl is 5.10.1 20:51
nwc10 gosh. Python 2.6.6 20:52
or do they mean Python 2.6.8, but we thought we should keep calling it 2.6.6? www.python.org/getit/releases/2.6.8/ 20:53
arnsholt Who knows with RedHat. They have their own patch backporting thing, IIRC 20:54
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nwc10 Dear Infoworld, Python isn't going anywhere either. By your reasoning. 20:55
(muppets)
20:55 kivutar left 20:56 fgomez left
jnthn Good news never sells... 20:59
nwc10 but I've just given them the basis for another story. Surely they want to run that one too? 21:00
jnthn Sure, if they're fair and unbiased ;) 21:03
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nwc10 Why does everyone feel the need to keep restating that Perl is dead, when TCL is dead too, and no-one needs to be reminded about that. Truthiness? 21:11
[Coke] hey.
tadzik hey, chill out :) 21:12
masak (chill out, we're dead)
21:12 kaare_ left
nwc10 "... In the long run we are all dead" -- John Maynard Keynes 21:13
www.tcl.tk/software/tcltk/8.6.html - Latest Release: Tcl/Tk 8.6.0 (Dec 20, 2012) 21:14
clearly very dead.
[Coke] "you first." - Sawyer from Lost.
masak :)
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timotimo tries out hoelzro++ 's new pygments work 21:15
407 changes to 133 files! he's been busy! 21:16
does twigil refer to both letters or only the second one 21:19
arnsholt Canonically, the twigil is the character that comes after the sigil
timotimo is there, in theory, a thrigil? 21:20
diakopter you're a thrigil 21:21
PerlJam timotimo: and the generalization would be a n-igil ?
timotimo >_<
jnthn I think one of the appocalypses promised not to introduce thrigils. 21:23
dalek p-jvm-prep: ed07f89 | jnthn++ | src/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/P6Opaque (3 files):
Start to stub in P6opaque deserialization.

Funnily enough, since we serialize method caches, we actually survive a surprising amount without actually deserializing the meta-objects attributes.
p-jvm-prep: 5e127ce | jnthn++ | nqp-src/NQPCORE.setting:
Uncomment setting's EXPORTHOW; NQPMu is a class.
p-jvm-prep: c1b6aa1 | jnthn++ | nqp-src/NQPCORE.setting:
new/bless/CREATE, and a stub BUILDALL.
p-jvm-prep: ef24e8b | jnthn++ | t/nqp/25-class.t:
We pass 25-class.t.
colomon \o/ 21:25
nwc10 \o/
tadzik whoa
masak timotimo: from A12: "We do hereby solemnly swear to never, never, ever add tertiary sigils. You have been warned."
tadzik jnthn: i.imgur.com/4AC7j0n.png
colomon A12++ 21:26
nwc10 finds github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/572578...3181049bce and is amused
masak "# test that a class can start with Q" -- heh, why would we have such a silly t... *remembers* oh. oops. sorry :P 21:27
21:27 arlinius left
nwc10 wasn't aware of the problem at the time 21:27
seems to be a "well, d'oh!" sort of bug
masak as opposed to all those "I meant to do that" sort of bugs. 21:28
nwc10 well, I meant that it looks like the sort that make you laugh rather than make you cry
jnthn My word, PIR code 21:29
diakopter shudders at length 21:30
masak nwc10: if bugs made me cry, I'd have quit this job long ago :P
nwc10 nostalgia?
diakopter "bwahaha I'm an idiot" 21:31
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jnthn wonders why dalek lost his last commit 21:43
diakopter note: I was quoting myself, above 21:44
tadzik stumbled upon a staircase, perhaps
colomon tadzik++ 21:45
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[Coke] wonders if rakudo should eliminate support for Q:PIR 21:52
jnthn Files=25, Tests=202. Not bad progress :)
[Coke] (or add Q:Java ;)
tadzik haha 21:53
rjbs jnthn: What're the total counts? 70 and 600?
jnthn rjbs: There's 65 NQP test files but 3 of them are testing Parrot-specific things.
rjbs: After that there's also the regex test suite...
rjbs :-) Excellent progress, though. Something like double yesterday, isn't it? 21:54
jnthn Yeah; mostly just doing small fixes/additions.
The runtime and QAST -> JVM already supports quite a lot of things.
rjbs Cool, good luck. Looking forward to seeing how it pans out. 21:55
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jnthn Same :) 21:55
timotimo i wonder if the meta-tracing jit design of pypy would be of any use to us rakudo users? 22:01
(meaning: replicating it rather than implementing a qast backend for pypy)
jnthn Some kind of 6model-aware trace JIT would make sense. 22:02
Well, that's true even without the "trace" bit.
japhb_ These days, there's actually a fair number of open-source JITs to look at. Lots of prior art.
timotimo right. i don't know how to do such a thing, though, so you all would have to do it :P 22:03
jnthn "We want to build a good JIT some day" was considered in the 6model design process way back. :)
japhb_ Even several tracing style ones. (Off the top of my head, TraceMonkey and LuaJIT, and I suspect several more I'm forgetting at the moment.)
timotimo jnthn: would the jvm JIT do much to improve rakudo run-speed? do perl6 methods/functions get turned into raw jvm bytecode and will those be jitted properly, too? 22:04
i have no good mental model of all the meta-layers involved in this
jnthn We compile down to JVM bytecode, so the JIT can help to some degree
I mean, if you + two native ints, it compiles down to what a + of two native ints in Java does. 22:05
timotimo and things that need some dynamicism will end up looking like function calls into the interpreter? like "find_appropriate_method"? i suppose find_lexical would be done at compile time already? 22:06
jnthn It tries to avoid looking lexicals up by name at least. 22:07
For now I'm mostly interested in "make it work" 22:13
"Make it fast" can come after that :)
[Coke] Illegal option --stable-sc 22:15
(building nqp-jvm-prep with nqp version 2012.12-49-g4084b68 built on parrot 4.10.0 revision RELEASE_4_10_0)
... which I thought was the latest.
diakopter not anymore 22:16
[Coke] with the implied "...as of about 10m ago"
diakopter oh
[Coke] (cd rakudo; git rb; perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --gen-nqp=master --prefix=/Users/willcoleda/sandbox/sixdev/install; make -j3 install) 22:17
Shouldn't that get me the latest nqp?
jnthn Should. 22:18
[Coke] grumbles and sets this up to wipe parrot and nqp directories and suffer a full rebuild each time just in case. 22:20
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jnthn gist.github.com/4659741 # very unscientific performance comparison; top is cross-compiling to JVM, second is running directly on Parrot. Note, this is early results, there's still room for optimization. 22:21
tadzik huhu 22:22
very impressive, esp. given JVM startup time 22:25
say("hi") alone is 3 seconds on my box :) 22:26
masak I for one welcome our new JVM overlords.
japhb_ Woah.
Very nice, jnthn!
jnthn oh lol
masak finally Parrot gets some competition :P
jnthn yeah, that is 1.27 on mine
[Coke] (arglebargle. I cannot do this build behind the firewall because I'm not setup for anonymous git to github anymore.) 22:27
jnthn Well, thing to remember is that the cross-compiler is doing the cross-comp in NQP on Parrot, spitting out a .dump file, running a JVM process to turn that into a .class file, then spawning the JVM again to run the compiled output.
[Coke] as a former parrot developer, I'm horrified at those timings. 22:28
jnthn: you're making it sound like you're doing a lot more work, but still running in a fraction of the time.
japhb_ ...
[Coke] r: say 5.36/85.11
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«0.062977␤»
[Coke] or are you not counting the time to cross compile at all? 22:30
(it's reading like "5s to cross compile and then run on java" vs. "85s to run on parrot")
jnthn [Coke]: The time I posted there includes the cross-compile and run time.
[Coke]: Well, to compile and run on Parrot.
[Coke] so, yes, those timings are as horrifying as I thought. ;)
jnthn It's a microbenchmark; usual disclaimers apply. 22:31
masak .oO( DOOM DOOM DOOM ) 22:34
japhb_ www.girlswithslingshots.com/comic/gws-1136/
22:35 alec__ joined
tadzik jnthn: fwiw, on my box this microbenchmark is 11.12s vs 379.93s :) 22:35
timotimo where do i have to look for a specification of the POD objects that can be accessed with $=...? or are they just always strings?
tadzik r: say 11.12/379.93
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«0.029269␤»
tadzik timotimo: nope, they're full-blown objects 22:36
timotimo that's good to know
tadzik and they aren't really spec'd, they only exist on rakudo, and are inspired by S26
timotimo mhm, ok
tadzik they're in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...ore/Pod.pm
just ask me about anything :)
timotimo just looked at S26 :)
i was just generally curious 22:37
tadzik I'm supposed to know everything about them :)
jnthn tadzik: Do they prefer caviar or trombones?
tadzik caviar any time 22:38
[Coke] bah. what sane creature would NOT choose trombones?
timotimo so, @.content will have any mixture of plain text and more complex objects that have their own @.content?
jnthn Pod block objects, apparently :P
r: say 8.58 / 106.72 22:39
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«0.080397␤»
tadzik timotimo: I think they're twines
or not
no, @.content is always Pod objects
except when it's a formatting code 22:40
then it's a twine
masak japhb_: ;)
jnthn OK, teaching tomorrow, so rest
'night o/
japhb_ Sleep well
masak tadzik: I'm so glad the twine concept was useful to you. it brings back fond memories of Białowieża. 22:41
tadzik :)
masak 'night, jnthn
tadzik surprise ice rain!
good knight jnthn
masak tadzik: hahaha
tadzik "Let's see the place of power!" "RETREEEEEAT"
timotimo i have no idea what a twine is, tbh 22:42
tadzik I remember it took me some time to fully appreciate twines, finally got them around yapc::eu that year
timotimo: it's a data structures for mixing strings with rich content
timotimo oh, ok
tadzik it's always odd number of elements, and a string must always be te first and the last element, even if empty
that makes it easy to merge them 22:43
masak timotimo: it's an odd-element array with text<elem>text<elem>text etc
timotimo finds it in his internet
tadzik it's a pretty simple concept, and it solves plenty of problems actually
timotimo apparently only in LLVM source code :|
masak I learned it through one of the XML modules on CPAN.
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tadzik yeah, that's the only place when I found it back in the days 22:44
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masak 'night, #perl6 22:48
timotimo 'night masak :) 22:49
japhb_ o/
tadzik g'knight 22:50
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FROGGS the times of the microbenchmark must be wrong 23:23
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tadzik how so? 23:34
FROGGS well, it's unbelievable 23:38
tadzik :) 23:39
FROGGS I do hope the parrot guys dont read this before first coffee ó.ò 23:40
tadzik jvm was about 50x faster on my box
if I exclude startup time, then well
r: say 8.12/379.93
p6eval rakudo 9c9d79: OUTPUT«0.021372␤»
tadzik yeah, about 50x 23:41
that's just a stupid loop though
FROGGS ya, of course
does JVM has some nativecall stuff?
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timotimo what microbenchmarks are going on here? 23:43
nqp on jvm benchmarks?
FROGGS right
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timotimo i'll try running nqp-jvm again 23:52
FROGGS I'd need to install first
timotimo aaw
javac: invalid source release: 1.7
Exception in thread "main" java.lang.UnsupportedClassVersionError: org/perl6/nqp/jast2bc/JASTToJVMBytecode : Unsupported major.minor version 51.0 - er, huh? 23:56
FROGGS no idea 23:58

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