»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by diakopter on 6 April 2013.
sorear [] is the old (?: ), it just groups without also making a numbered capture 00:00
also, .say for slurp.comb(/\S+/) 00:01
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sorear or slurp.words 00:01
comb is probably the most underappreciated p6 addition
(you know you can't pre-tokenize forth right?) 00:02
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FROGGS gnight ladies 00:36
tangentstorm sorear: thanks for the tip on [].. i was misunderstanding what it meant. 00:38
i'm not really trying to tokenize forth i just wanted to make a simple example. goal is really to tokenize java :D
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sorear tangentstorm: I should warn you that the current perl 6 stuff is not totally suited for parsing lex+yacc style languages 01:39
you may be able to fake it and write an integrated parser (without lexing)
skids tangentstorm: I don't think you have to instantiate actions; the methods are class methods. 01:40
sorear but if you do lex, and then you want to parse, well - you can't parse a list of tokens with a grammar currently
tangentstorm yeah PEGs don't really have tokens, do they? 01:45
i'm not entirely clear what the difference between a rule and a token is, since tokens behave more like production rules than traditional tokenizers 01:46
r: .say for slurp.comb /land/
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/P32HiIuuIg:1␤------> .say for slurp.comb /land/⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or meta-infix␤»
tangentstorm r: .say for slurp.comb( /land/ ) 01:47
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«land␤»
tangentstorm r: .say for slurp.comb( /\S+/ ) 01:48
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Land␤der␤Berge,␤Land␤am␤Strome,␤Land␤der␤Äcker,␤Land␤der␤Dome,␤Land␤der␤Hämmer,␤zukunftsreich!␤Heimat␤bist␤du␤großer␤Söhne,␤Volk,␤begnadet␤für␤das␤Schöne,␤vielgerühmtes␤Österreich,␤vielgerühmtes␤Österreich!␤Heiß␤umfehdet,␤wild␤umstritten␤liegst␤dem␤Erdteil␤du␤inmit…
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tangentstorm r: .say for slurp.comb( /.and/ ) 01:49
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Land␤Land␤Land␤Land␤Land␤land␤»
tangentstorm ah case sensitive
sorear: ANTLR3 has a feature where you can have data pass through without any changes, and just match a particular language feature 01:51
like.. say you're coding in pascal and you want to convert all the keywords to lower case, but not inside a comment or string 01:52
you could write a tokenizer, and then have it ignore strings but replace each keyword with its upper case equivalent. 01:53
sorear r: .say for slurp.comb( /:i .and/ )
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Land␤Land␤Land␤Land␤Land␤land␤»
sorear r: .say for slurp.comb( /:a .and/ )
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex modifier :a␤at /tmp/K54BOzEevN:1␤------> .say for slurp.comb( /:a⏏ .and/ )␤»
sorear r: .say for slurp.comb( /:m .and/ )
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex modifier :m␤at /tmp/3mJ7i081rm:1␤------> .say for slurp.comb( /:m⏏ .and/ )␤»
sorear oh well
tangentstorm what's m?
sorear tangentstorm: I see
tangentstorm sorear: that's not a good example
my example i mean ;)
better example: say i want to translate c to python 01:54
or python to c
that's easier
sorear :m = :ignoremark is supposed to do a comparison ignoring (real or precomposed) combining characters
so you can be sloppy and "Schöne" ~~ /:m Schone/
tangentstorm argh. i know what i want but i can't really explain it.
sorear rather fiddly to implement, I know niecza never implemented it
tangentstorm i'm trying to translate java -> pascal 01:55
i would like to start with this whitespace tokenizer, and just have everything pass through unchanged
then i would like to start adding rules that modify the stream
sorear unfortunately your rules need to be context dependant 01:56
tangentstorm so like in perl5 i might say: while (<>) { print }
and then step 2 would be while (<>) { if (whatever) { blahblah } else { print } } 01:57
sorear after you've tokenized Java, how do you translate the token final to pascal?
tangentstorm probably would just omit it.
sorear (note: the last pascal code I touched was written in I think 84, I imagine it has OO now but I have no clue what it looks like)
tangentstorm it's not a general java -> pascal translator, it's a specific codebase that i wrote, so if i need to i can change it. 01:58
sorear: it's not the rules that are a problem here... it's totally fine to match statement as /.* ';'/ and not worry about what's inside 01:59
i don't need to write a full parser. 02:00
what i'm hung up on is how to make a catch-all action
so that everything defaults to "print unchanged"
unless i specify otherwise
maybe some kind of magic auto-method in the action?
skids classes can have default catch-all methods. 02:01
sorear ehehehe
geekosaur don't think standard pascal has oo still. if you see something that looks like oo pascal, it's probably delphi
sorear niecza allows you to create an action named FALLBACK 02:02
this is nonstandard, but rather necessary for a bootstrapped compiler
skids IIRC it is "standard" now.
S12#FALLBACK_methods 02:03
tangentstorm skids: my @tokens = Grammar.parse( slurp, :actions( Actions )); works great. thank you :)
sorear because the set of action names required in perl 6 is not a priori fixed
tangentstorm geekosaur: yes, standard pascal is long dead... object pascal is alive and well though ( freepascal.org/ ) 02:04
geekosaur yes and IIRC they picked it up from delphi :)
tangentstorm yeah, it started as a turbo pascal clone, and then lazarus is a delphi clone... but fpc actually has its own dialect now 02:05
objfpc had generics before delphi, for example, and the syntaxes are not the same 02:06
i will try the fallback thing. thanks.
skids rn: class a { method FALLBACK { "OHAI".say } }; a.foo(); 02:07
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«OHAI␤»
..rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'a'␤ in block at /tmp/kOykBVot6b:1␤␤»
skids rakudo does not have it yet.
but maybe there is a prestandard equivalent. 02:08
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skids Ah, irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-03-08#i_6565799 02:11
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gtodd skids: interesting ... so is the syntax of niecza "hack" becoming the "standard" ? 02:14
tangentstorm it's neat that methods act as both class and instance methods as long a you don't acces instance data
r: class Fool { my method FALLBACK (|stuff) { say stuff }; Fool.^add_fallback(-> $, $ {True}, -> $, $name { &FALLBACK }) }; Fool.of_a_Took('Peregrine') 02:15
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Peregrine␤»
tangentstorm okay rather than asknig what the | indicates in |stuff... where should i look to find out what the | indicates? 02:16
skids Yes, FALLBACK is specced right above Class Methods in S12
gtodd yeah that is neat but looks longer than
rn: class a { method FALLBACK { "OHAI".say } }; a.foo();
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«No such method 'foo' for invocant of type 'a'␤ in block at /tmp/UYTWr1wBU0:1␤␤»
..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«OHAI␤»
gtodd oops meant to skip the m: 02:17
tangentstorm hmm. that should be pretty trivial to add to rakudo 02:18
gtodd skids: indulge my edification :-) .... how/where will it get added to rakudo?
skids gtodd: I'm not the one to ask :-) 02:19
gtodd if it's possible to do it in some roundabout way does the syntax get changed in a grammar someway?
skids tangentstorm: most such uses for | are in S06
gtodd skids: ok understood :)
skids I barely do anything here, just read the channel and occasionally have the wherewithall to remember a few things :) 02:20
tangentstorm if there's a universal base class, it could just have this fallback set up in rakudo, and it's default behavior could be to raise the exception rakudo already raises.
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gtodd ha .. it's interesting how a "nonstandard, ... but "necessary for a bootstrapped compiler" might make its way back in to the spec. The diversity of perl6 "environments" seems to push the language to do interesting things 02:22
tangentstorm perl5 had a feature like this too... Auto:: something 02:23
i can't remember
skids Autoloading.
tangentstorm sounds about right :) 02:25
geekosaur sub AUTOLOAD
tangentstorm looks like porcupine is object pascal / delphi for parrot :) 02:26
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BenGoldberg Perl6 does have a universal base class. It's called Mu 02:37
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tangentstorm of course it is. :D 02:38
perl is fun.
i forgot.
BenGoldberg .ud perl6 02:40
yoleaux ENOTFOUND 02:41
BenGoldberg .ud perl5
yoleaux ENOTFOUND
BenGoldberg .ud perl
yoleaux pur'-el (n) 1. Computer programming language used mostly by male virgins, between the ages of 17 and 35, who are also well versed in the Lord Of The Rings stories.Pratical Extraction and Reporting La
japhb tangentstorm, -Ofun is more than just a slogan, it's a way of life. :-)
tangentstorm left for python about ~12-15 years ago. :/ 02:42
i did write an assembler in perl not too long ago though. 02:43
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tangentstorm hmm.. is cperl-mode the place to go for perl6 on emacs? 02:46
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raiph .u 2C22 02:56
yoleaux U+2C22 GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA [Lu] (Ⱒ)
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lue tangentstorm: yes, sadly (that reminds of something I might do over the weekend though) 02:59
sorear gtodd: tbh I'd rather someone add the rakudo method to niecza 03:00
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tangentstorm looking at Mu.pm: my $meth := $type.HOW.find_private_method($type, $name); 03:03
colomon sorear: what method? 03:04
tangentstorm i'm not seeing where HOW is defined yet though
gtodd sorear: :-) I think I understand your preference ... 03:06
colomon: class Fool { my method FALLBACK (|stuff) { say stuff }; Fool.^add_fallback(-> $, $ {True}, -> $, $name { &FALLBACK }) }; Fool.of_a_Took('Peregrine') 03:07
the FALLBACK
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gtodd it was longer and there was the "|stuff" bit so I instinctively liked the niecza approach ... then began to think a bit more 03:09
tangentstorm it looks like rakudo uses add_fallback in several places 03:10
traits.pm uses it... not exactly sure what it's doing
but it looks like fallbacks could be created as a trait...? 03:11
sorear colomon: add_fallback
tangentstorm: HOW is special syntax, it's not actually a method call 03:12
it's defined in the computer to produce special ops
nqp::how IIRC for rakudo
tangentstorm the reason pirate stalled in 2003 was lack of a usable object system for parrot. looks like it's pretty feature rich now.
colomon sorear, gtodd: gotcha. not something I can add in the ten minutes before bedtime, alas.
sorear Op::Interrogative for niecza
tangentstorm fair enough. 03:13
my only issue is that i don't see any docs :/ 03:14
for add_fallback i mean
gtodd (|stuff) 03:15
:)
sorear hmm. I would declare 117579 wrong
tangentstorm src/gen/Metamodel.pm i guess
sorear (labster) 03:16
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lue r: say "A" ne <A B C>.any 03:17
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«False␤»
lopsoflove k 03:18
lue is ne supposed to do that?
tangentstorm that looks sensible to me 03:21
tangentstorm doesn't know enough to guess why that wouldn't work.
geekosaur any's a junction, no? 03:23
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tangentstorm that's how i'd read it 03:23
how would i say "typeof"?
geekosaur r: my $a = "x"; say $a.WHAT 03:24
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
lue OK, my mind was trying to understand the negation is all. I get it now.
tangentstorm .HOW .WHAT ... :D awesome.
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tangentstorm r: <A B C>.any # hoping for 'Junction' :) 03:24
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: ( no output )
tangentstorm r: say <A B C>.any # hoping for 'Junction' :)
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(A, B, C)␤»
tangentstorm ok
geekosaur r: say <A B C>.any.WHAT 03:25
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«(Junction)␤»
lue I believe .WHAT is the "typeof" you're looking for.
tangentstorm details.
sigh.. yeah, that's what i meant to type. thanks ;D
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tangentstorm so if it's a junction then ne makes perfect sense 03:26
r: say "A" eq <A>
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«True␤»
tangentstorm therefore: 03:27
r: say "A" eq <A>.any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(True)␤»
skids Junctions stringify to Str, not to junctions of Str. As of February.
tangentstorm r: say "A" eq <A B>.any 03:28
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(True, False)␤»
tangentstorm r: say "A" ne <A B>.any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«False␤»
tangentstorm now i understand.
lue Like I said, I confused myself trying to understand the ticket sorear mentioned :)
tangentstorm n: say "A" ne <A B>.any 03:29
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«False␤»
tangentstorm n: say "A" eq <A B>.any
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«any(Bool::True, Bool::False)␤»
tangentstorm n: say <True, False>.WHAT
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤»
tangentstorm n: say <True, False>.any.WHAT
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«(Junction)␤»
tangentstorm n: say ! <True, False>.any 03:30
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«False␤»
tangentstorm $a ne $b -> ! ($a eq $b)
lue is rakudo's REPL still considered unreliable? I suspect that may have caused labster's issues with the if statements. (The first part about 'ne' is correct behavior to my knowledge)
(unless, "ne is a shortcut for !eq" is actually a hint to write ne as sub infix:<ne>($a, $b) { $a !eq $b }; ) 03:35
tangentstorm the question is really about what sort of logical inferences you can make about Junctions. 03:37
rn: say <True, False, True>.any 03:38
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«any("True,", "False,", "True")␤»
..rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(True,, False,, True)␤»
tangentstorm rn: say <True False True>.any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(True, False, True)␤»
..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«any("True", "False", "True")␤»
lue rn: say (True, False, False).any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(True, False, False)␤»
..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«any(Bool::True, Bool::False, Bool::False)␤»
lue rn: say so (True, False, False).any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«True␤»
tangentstorm perldoc -f so :) 03:39
no magic bots do perldoc either hrm...
lue tangentstorm: just so you know, the angle bracket lists are just a convenient way of writing lists of strings [ <a b c> looks better/is faster to type than ("a", "b", "c") ]
sorear lue: labster shadowed a function in an outer scope, then got surprised when a different function in the outer scope didn't call it. he seems to be confused about the concept of lexical scoping or the way in which perl 6 applies it 03:40
tangentstorm thanks, lue 03:41
lue I can see where Perl 6 is right then (although I too would've made labster's assumption as well)
tangentstorm r: say ( True, False ).any 03:42
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«any(True, False)␤»
tangentstorm r: say so ( True, False ).any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«True␤»
tangentstorm r: say so ( False ).any 03:43
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«False␤»
tangentstorm r: say so not ( False ).any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«True␤»
tangentstorm r: say not so ( False ).any
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«True␤»
tangentstorm r: say( not so ( True, False ).any, so not ( True, False ).any ) 03:44
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«FalseFalse␤»
sorear when I say that "so 2 is the same as not not 2", I am making a specific assertion about the implementations of so and not in the default setting
tangentstorm wait what just happened.
sorear this does not mean that if you add "say 'HERE';" to the implementation of not, so will print "HERE HERE"
tangentstorm nm. confused myself. 03:45
r: say X [True, False] [&so, &not]
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/PewkP5TYoh:1␤------> say X [⏏True, False] [&so, &not]␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or meta-infix␤ bracketed infix␤» 03:46
tangentstorm r: say X [True, False], [&so, &not]
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/xYoprz7Xvi:1␤------> say X [⏏True, False], [&so, &not]␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or meta-infix␤ bracketed infix␤»
sorear X does not work that way
r: say (True, False X &so, &not)
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared names:␤ &not used at line 1␤ &so used at line 1␤␤»
sorear n: say (True, False X &so, &not)
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«True sub so(Any \v) { ... } True sub not(Any \v) { ... } False sub so(Any \v) { ... } False sub not(Any \v) { ... }␤»
sorear X constructs a list of given items 03:47
it does not call functions or anything
also, it's an infix operator, not prefix
labster hi, was I summoned?
sorear also it requires bare lists, not lists boxed up in []
tangentstorm cool
[] isn't a list anymore?
sorear r: my @foo = [1,2,3]; say @foo.elems 03:48
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear [1,2,3] is an anonymous scalar variable which holds a reference to a list
diakopter r: my @foo := [1,2,3]; say @foo.elems 03:49
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«3␤»
sorear labster: i was just raising my objections to your !eq ticket
diakopter nice! I think. :)
tangentstorm := means flatten or something? 03:50
like | ?
"Capture"
r: say ( True, False X so, not ) 03:51
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Bogus statement␤at /tmp/mDbwjiPqrk:1␤------> say ( True, False X so⏏, not )␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or meta-infix␤ prefix or term␤ prefix or meta-prefi…
labster sorear: lue: I can understand the scoping issue because you mentioned it, but if ne defined as !eq, shouldn't it work like a macro?
... though I'm probably wrong about this
tangentstorm n: say [True, False], [False, True] X <so not> 03:52
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«True False so True False not False True so False True not␤»
tangentstorm n: say [True, False], [False, True] X <so not>, <not so> 03:53
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«True False so True False not True False not True False so False True so False True not False True not False True so␤»
sorear labster: I've always interpreted it to mean sub infix:<ne>($x,$y) { $x !eq $y }
labster: I've always interpreted it to mean sub infix:<ne>(Mu $x, Mu $y) { $x !eq $y }
labster: the essential part isn't the synonym, the essental part is the fact that it completely changes junctional behavior 03:54
tangentstorm n: say [True, False], [False, True] X <SO NOT>, <TON OS>
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«True False SO True False NOT True False TON True False OS False True SO False True NOT False True TON False True OS␤»
sorear tangentstorm: it will make more sense if you wrap that in ().perl 03:55
tangentstorm n: say [True, False], [False, True] X [<SO NOT>], [<TON OS>]
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«True False SO NOT True False TON OS False True SO NOT False True TON OS␤»
tangentstorm that's what i wanted.
n: say ([True, False], [False, True] X <SO NOT>, <TON OS>).perl
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«([Bool::True, Bool::False], "SO", [Bool::True, Bool::False], "NOT", [Bool::True, Bool::False], "TON", [Bool::True, Bool::False], "OS", [Bool::False, Bool::True], "SO", [Bool::False, Bool::True], "NOT", [Bool::False, Bool::True], "TON", [Bool::False, Bool::…
tangentstorm n: say ([True, False], [False, True] X <SO NOT>, <TON OS>).perl.WHAT 03:56
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«(Str)␤»
labster sorear: Okay, then the question becomes -- does it make sense to define a different infix:<ne> (Cool, Cool) that uses isne_s for the speed? So far as I can tell only junctions depend on the !eq behavior.
tangentstorm like repr in python? $x = eval($x.perl) ?
sorear labster: "!eq behavior" MEANS the junction behavior 03:57
tangentstorm: Yes
labster: sure, if you can show that the arguments aren't junctions, go ahead and use isne_s 03:58
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sorear have you noticed yet that != has the same magic? 03:58
labster yeah, but it doesn't affect my code right now so I haven't been paying attention to it :) 04:01
tangentstorm n: for [True, False], [False, True] X "so not", "not so" -> $junc, $ops { say eval( $ops ~~ $junk.perl )}
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $junk is not predeclared at /tmp/g4CSZFx4fd line 1:␤------> so" -> $junc, $ops { say eval( $ops ~~ ⏏$junk.perl )}␤␤Potential difficulties:␤ $junc is declared but not used at /tmp/g4CSZFx4fd line…
tangentstorm n: for [True, False], [False, True] X "so not", "not so" -> ($junc, $ops) { say eval( $ops ~~ $junk.perl )}
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Variable $junk is not predeclared at /tmp/Hq9luhZv0n line 1:␤------> o" -> ($junc, $ops) { say eval( $ops ~~ ⏏$junk.perl )}␤␤Potential difficulties:␤ $junc is declared but not used at /tmp/Hq9luhZv0n line…
tangentstorm i'm probably annoying everyone. sorry :D
labster tangentstorm: you can always /msg p6eval these 04:02
tangentstorm oh nice
thanks
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labster I'm just wondering if there should be some deeper reasoning defining ne as !eq everywhere, because S03:4065, S03:1214 don't mention junctions. Or is only an identical outcome important, because the only place !eq will every make a difference is junctions? 04:07
skids It's in S03, look for "not raising" (quotes included)
Which is what the behavior is probably called linguistically. 04:08
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adu hi 04:25
skids o/
sorear hi
adu my c stuff is kinda working 04:27
diakopter oh?
adu but I don't know how to write method or classes
github.com/andydude/c2drox 04:31
how does one write parser actions?
I have a vague understanding of AST building: github.com/andydude/c2drox/blob/ma...ctions.pm6 04:33
but other type of actions I'm a little lost
tangentstorm you can just put anything you want in the method
tangentstorm learned this tonight :) 04:34
adu what I'd like to do is this: github.com/andydude/c2drox/blob/ma...ctions.pm6
tangentstorm what happens instead? 04:35
adu well, it does run those actions, but I'm still not sure exactly how to navigate the match objects 04:36
it's basically going to be a c to MathML+extra compiler 04:37
tangentstorm can you ask a specific question? i'm pretty much a newbie, but i've been working with actions for a few hours :) 04:38
lue adu: It's a couple years old, but I've referred to it quite a few times before: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2009/12/...d-actions/
adu lue: yeah, that helped a bit
tangentstorm was using that too, earlier :)
skids In theory the actions should build your own self-contained tree under the top level .ast. But that tends to be tedious so many just build smaller subtrees and keep the Match objects for structure.
adu skids: it seems daunting 04:40
why so scary
tangentstorm i just deleted the match rules for the things i didn't change
skids Note the "say"s in DROXActions don't make anything 04:41
adu which is good, right?
maybe I do want an AST first
tangentstorm you only need an ast if you're going to transform it
lue for debugging reasons, say is perfectly fine in actions :)
adu should I use QAST or my CAST?
tangentstorm or want to look at it i guess :) 04:42
lue QAST is an AST that NQP uses during its compilation. It has nothing to do with the ASTs you generate with your actions. 04:43
adu tangentstorm: the transforms are really minor, like (a + b) becomes <apply><plus/><ci>a</ci><ci>b</ci></apply>
sorear ow
lue sorear: That's why I don't like MathML :)
tangentstorm that's probably not really a transform
well 04:44
by transform what i meant is re-arrange
adu lue: I don't like reading MathML, but that's not why I'm doing this
tangentstorm i would think your parse tree is going to look like that already, right?
adu tangentstorm: yes, I think it does
tangentstorm yeah so wherever you match binary-operation, that rule would be something like: rule binex { $left=<expr> <op> $right=<expr> } ? 04:46
i said it wrong
adu alternatively I could build an XML AST, but so far as I know I wrote the only XML library for perl6
lue unless you're doing it for debugging reasons, changing those "say"s to "make"s in DROXActions would probably be what you want.
tangentstorm $<left>=<expr> i think.. crap. i forgot, but however you name things
adu o wait, exemel 04:47
tangentstorm ah yeah... you cat just make "string"
adu lue: I don't understand make
tangentstorm def make(self, thing): self.ast = thing
skids it just assigns to .ast of the corresponding Match object. 04:48
tangentstorm doesn't know the perl for that yet. sorry. ;)
adu tangentstorm: how pythonic
tangentstorm: then you might like another one of my projects: github.com/andydude/python2drox
tangentstorm last time i used perl it was all blessed hash references :)
adu tangentstorm: that's a fully functional converter 04:49
tangentstorm i don't know what a drosera object xml is
adu tangentstorm: it's just MathML + some extra stuff 04:50
skids adu: so if you want a fully connected tree under .ast then parents have to glue together their children with make.
adu skids: so make [a, b] or something 04:51
skids right.
adu actually, I think I will go with the AST first
tangentstorm drosoft isn't loading for me
adu someone else might want to have an AST
tangentstorm: really? I'll fix it 04:52
tangentstorm it came up now.. i think it's my connection.
adu tangentstorm: drosoft.org/tr/drox.html is the spec
tangentstorm but if that's your site, drosoft.org/tr/dson-0.1.html has some kind of encoding issue
that one too
adu I'm planning on rewriting them to match the theme of the main site 04:53
tangentstorm your table of contents is all: Â Â Â Â 1.1 Scope
adu that was inserted by xmlspec.xsl written by w3.org, which I'm scrapping in favor of scribble
tangentstorm the racket thing?
adu yes 04:54
tangentstorm cool
adu you can use it independantly, just run "scribble --html"
I've already written my scribble.css to match the rest of the site, just need to rewrite the document now
tangentstorm yeah. i mostly use org-mode for the moment but i looked at a lot of them
so what would i use this for? 04:56
skids adu: The other alternative is to try to keep cruft out of the Match objects and keep them structured close to the way you want them, and then offer methods that traverse just the .hash/.list
I think that people will fight with those two approaches for a while and eventually patterns will emerge and will either become pretty core libs or result on a spec enhancement. 04:57
adu skids: ok, I'll try using only match objects at first, and see how far I can go 04:58
tangentstorm: lots of things
tangentstorm: mostly things that already exist, like syntax highliters, automatic code checkers/formatters/debuggers, things that calculat cyclomatic complexity, dataflow analysis, static analysis 04:59
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adu tangentstorm: but it's mostly for people who are comfortable with xml 05:00
skids
.oO(xml makes my eyes bleed.)
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adu I've never really thought of xml as something to be read, I think of it as something to be stored and queried, and if your query returns too much data, then refine your query :) 05:01
tangentstorm so like you're providing a cross-language parser kind of thing? 05:02
like a single api to parsing multiple languages?
adu probably
yes
skids My real problem with XML is the forcing of everything into a tree, even stuff that doesn't really fit.
adu but I've been planning this for like 5 years, and the purpose is constantly shifting, but I've always seen the need people have for code analysis 05:03
tangentstorm that's what rdf is for 05:04
lue skids: I've always seen the problem more as people trying to fit non-tree data into XML (not that XML is the issue)
adu tangentstorm: that's what I'm using for equivalence
tangentstorm yeah i saw :)
adu I've got cwm installed on the server-side, but I'm not sure how to use it yet 05:05
tangentstorm i wish we had a unified set of tools that understood ASCII control codes for structuring data.
then all this xml/yaml/json/whatever could just go away
adu lue: actually, the best structure I've seen so far is Alexy Radul's cells and propagator model 05:06
lue: which is non-tree
web.mit.edu/~axch/www/phd-thesis.pdf
tangentstorm ascii has a whole set of control codes for tabular data, including separators for fields, rows, groups, and files 05:07
adu tangentstorm: CSV without the commas
tangentstorm as well as markers for start of a header, start of text, and end of text, which could be used to make nested structures.
yeah
they're just sitting there taking up space in the character table 05:08
adu tangentstorm: that's similar to exi, and if you have an xmlschema, then exi could give you a lot of space savings vs. .xml.gz 05:09
tangentstorm: need I remind you
.u 1F4A9
yoleaux U+1F4A9 PILE OF POO [So] (💩)
adu there's a lot of characters just taking up space 05:10
tangentstorm hrm.. i only just skimmed exi... it's a bit like what i'm talking about, but not really..
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tangentstorm this would still be meant to be human readable 05:11
sorear tangentstorm: have you ever come in contact with the ASC X12 data system?
tangentstorm nope
sorear tangentstorm: it's basically a unified set of tools that's designed to use ASCII control codes for strucuting data. 05:12
tangentstorm huh.
by tools i was talking about: grep, ls, sqilite, vim, emacs, perl :)
like a userland
adu xml has lots of userlang 05:13
d
sorear i wrote some stuff last month to implement that, because there's a computer in Memphis running COBOL on an AS/400 that doesn't speak anything else that my company needs to access
adu my favorites are xsltproc, saxon, and xsh
sorear: you should translate cobol2drox 05:14
tangentstorm like all these tools understand "\n" and know how to work with word-wrapping and such, but that's all you really get out of them... lists of lines
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tangentstorm :) 05:14
adu tangentstorm: anyways, there is a few companies who make good money doing reengineering
tangentstorm i'm looking at the ASC X12 site but it looks like a big industrial thing
adu tangentstorm: www.semdesigns.com/products/DMS/DMSToolkit.html 05:15
tangentstorm ah yeah.. i've seen these guys before.
adu: i get it now... i was just thrown off by the mathml aspect :) 05:16
adu I feel like I want to do that, only without the pressure, I just want to give it away
whenever I charge for things it makes me feel bad
tangentstorm step into my office... >:D
tangentstorm puts adu to work.. muahahaha 05:17
adu maybe have a free drox interpreter, then charge $$$ for the JIT
tangentstorm: I have a job, thanks
skids charge for it and then give the money to some OSS project :-)
adu skids: :) 05:18
tangentstorm perl6 seems to attract a lot of people interested in cross language interop.
which i guess makes sense.
lue I created an example for grammar+actions, if you're interested: gist.github.com/lue/5377054 05:20
sorear adu: Isn't that basically PHP's business model? pay-for-compiler
tangentstorm okay the java-parsing part of my compiler is done: grun Java compilationUnit -tree whatever.java :) 05:21
using the java syntax that ships with antlr4 ... it basically dumps s-expressions... should be pretty doable to parse that with my minutes of perl6 expertise :) 05:22
lue would think the integrated grammar feature is what attracts the cross-language crowd 05:23
adu sorear: I don't know, I thought php was free
tangentstorm yeah. i kind of want to translate antlr grammars to perl6 now. :)
adu tangentstorm: that's the spirit!
tangentstorm the grammars and also parrot.
sorear adu: the php *interpreter* is frew 05:24
free
tangentstorm i mean the idea of running python on parrot is what attracted me originally.
hmm... with this antlr approach, i don't think i even need the fallback. 05:27
adu tangentstorm: I just updated drosoft.org/tr/drox.html 05:28
tangentstorm wow, MUCH nicer.
adu :) I rock
tangentstorm have you seen candlescript?
adu that's scribble :)
tangentstorm www.candlescript.org/ 05:29
adu nope
sounds like xml fun
tangentstorm it's just one guy... hasn't been updated in a while, i guess.
it takes all the xml tools and repackages them in a non-xml syntax
it also has grammars and schemas and such. 05:30
www.candlescript.org/doc/candle-mar...amples.htm
kind of just an alternate, unified syntax for for xml/xpath/xquery/xslt + scripting 05:31
adu tangentstorm: anyways, the core inspiration of drox is that 90% of MathML is centered around the <apply> element, but with most languages you need <stmt> and <decl> elements too, and in the spirit of MathML, you can come up with whatever first element suits your needs, like <go:defer/> or <java:synchronized/> or <perl6:grammar/> etc.
tangentstorm candle also does what relax.ng does... it unifies pattern matching/parsing on strings, trees, and i guess graphs. 05:33
not sure about graphs.
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tangentstorm (your relax ng usage just reminded me of it is all) 05:34
adu that's one thing I never liked, relaxng is Great for schemas&type definitions, and xquery is Great for templates, but it's impossible to do the other thing in the other language
tangentstorm weird: i can't click the top couple links in your table of contents. 05:35
adu odd
maybe its a browser thing, because the <a>s are there 05:36
tangentstorm yeah your body tag seems to be covering it 05:38
not sure how that works, but that's what firefox is showing.
adu tangentstorm: I'm seeing it in chrome, it might be a css issue
I'll put it on my todo list 05:39
tangentstorm i'm still not sure i understand exactly what your project does but i like it :) 05:40
is there a way i can use a file as both a module and a program? 05:41
tangentstorm vaguely remembers something about BEGIN from perl5
adu tangentstorm: to start, I have pairs of transforms, i.e. python2drox, and drox2python
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adu tangentstorm: and js2drox, drox2js, if you had some code that you want to try to port from javascript to python, you would connect js2drox | drox2python 05:42
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adu and if you got an error, or it looks funny, then try again :) 05:42
tangentstorm ... oh 05:43
OH
adu and I haven't uploaded drox2* yet because they will have to be much more liberal
tangentstorm i didn't pick that up at all from your site. :)
adu reengineering :)
tangentstorm: github.com/andydude/js2drox 05:44
tangentstorm yeah i'm right this minute translating java -> object pascal
adu tangentstorm: if I had those, that would be as simple as java2drox | drox2opascal 05:45
tangentstorm there was another guy in here earlier talking about cdent.org/ 05:46
adu interesting 05:47
tangentstorm but you're aiming for whole language translation right? 05:48
adu yes
tangentstorm the other project like this that i know of is haxe
adu the Data part of the site is so you can browse language keywords, among other things
I've seen haxe
tangentstorm strictly one-way 05:49
adu but it has a language and VM
tangentstorm yeah
adu I don't want either of those
the world has enough languages
we just need to convert between them
tangentstorm :)
tangentstorm is working on a programming language
adu me too
tangentstorm :D
adu I don't have a spec
actually 2 languages
droscheme, and droscript
droscheme (compiler is about 70% done, library about 10% done, interpreter was 90% done) 05:50
droscript (0% done)
tangentstorm: what's your language called? 05:51
tangentstorm wejal
i don't have a good elevator pitch for it ;) 05:53
adu pitches are for closed source loosers
tangentstorm but it's kind of in the ballpark of what you're talking about
it's sort of a dialect of forth that looks like a normal infix language. 05:54
so there's no nailed down syntax
github.com/sabren/b4/blob/master/b4a/b4a.wj <- this is a mockup
so far i've been focused on a virtual machine called ngaro, but i'm kind of thinking of targeting parrot as well. 05:56
ngaro is a stack machine with implementations in like 12 different languages
maybe i'll start by porting it to perl :) 05:57
adu parrot is interesting 05:58
and the way that programs were compiled is interesting 05:59
tangentstorm which part?
adu iirc, they made a c file that said program = "..parrot bytecodes.."; then Parrot_exec(program);
maybe its different now 06:00
tangentstorm you mean compiling to an executable?
adu yes
tangentstorm kind of wondered where the rakudo perl6 binary was coming from :) 06:01
i was working on a python -> parrot compiler in 2003 or so and it wasn't nearly that far along yet. i'm really impressed with what i'm seeing here.
adu pynie? 06:02
what I need to do is just make a few command-line tools in perl6 to get my barings, for example, I have no idea how to iterate a list
tangentstorm no, it was called pirate it's not online anymore. 06:03
for list { .say } 06:04
will print every item in a list
r: for 1..10 { .say }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
Timbus ;
adu r: for $x in 1..10 { say $x } 06:05
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable '$x' is not declared␤at /tmp/1UtfCMK_BB:1␤------> for $x⏏ in 1..10 { say $x }␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
tangentstorm r: for 1..10 -> $x { say $x }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
adu omg I could write only again 06:06
tangentstorm ?
adu hackage.haskell.org/package/only
it's a toy I made to learn Haskell 06:07
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adu it would probably be a 1 liner 06:07
tangentstorm r: for lines() { .say } 06:08
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Land der Berge, Land am Strome,␤Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,␤Land der Hämmer, zukunftsreich!␤Heimat bist du großer Söhne,␤Volk, begnadet für das Schöne,␤vielgerühmtes Österreich,␤vielgerühmtes Österreich!␤␤Heiß umfehdet, wild umstritten␤liegst dem Erdteil du inmi…
tangentstorm r: my $x = 0; for lines() { if 3 < $x++ < 9 { .say } } 06:09
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Volk, begnadet für das Schöne,␤vielgerühmtes Österreich,␤vielgerühmtes Österreich!␤␤Heiß umfehdet, wild umstritten␤»
tangentstorm r: my $x = 0; for lines() { if /das/ and 3 < $x++ < 9 { .say } } 06:10
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: ( no output )
tangentstorm r: my $x = 0; for lines() { if /das/ and ( 3 < $x++ < 9 ) { .say } }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: ( no output )
tangentstorm r: my $x = 0; for lines() { if m/das/ and ( 3 < $x++ < 9 ) { .say } }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: ( no output )
tangentstorm hrm
r: my $x = 0; for lines() { if m/das/ && ( 3 < $x++ < 9 ) { .say } }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: ( no output )
tangentstorm r: my $x = 0; for lines() { if .match(/das/) && ( 3 < $x++ < 9 ) { .say } } 06:11
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: ( no output )
tangentstorm back to the drawing board :)
adu I don't think lines() works like that
r: say "a\nb\nc".lines()
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«a b c␤»
tangentstorm r: say lines().perl 06:12
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«("Land der Berge, Land am Strome,", "Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,", "Land der Hämmer, zukunftsreich!", "Heimat bist du großer Söhne,", "Volk, begnadet für das Schöne,", "vielgerühmtes Österreich,", "vielgerühmtes Österreich!", "", "Heiß umfehdet, wild umstritten"…
adu where did that come from?!?
tangentstorm it's a standard input file the bot is reading
just so you have something to play with
adu oh ok 06:13
I thought p6eval was posessed by demons
tangentstorm like if you'd said perl6 -e"whatever you typed" < whatever-that-file-is.txt
german demons yeah
gremlins ;)
adu lol
better than lorem ipsum 06:14
or as I like to call it "pain itself" 06:15
from Cicero's "The Purposes of Good and Evil" 06:16
tangentstorm whoah. i always thought it was just gibberish. 06:17
also i've heard people call it greeking :D 06:18
adu tangentstorm: it is now because people use random latin generators
it's not greek 06:19
the full sentance that lorem ipsum comes from is "Nor again is there anyone who loves or pursues or desires to obtain pain of itself, because it is pain, but occasionally circumstances occur in which toil and pain can procure him some great pleasure." 06:20
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tangentstorm yeah i know that's why the :D 06:28
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adu good night 06:38
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moritz \o 06:44
FROGGS_ morning 06:45
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moritz r: sub f($x) { my $x } 06:48
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $x␤ at /tmp/Q5x1G3qAhF:1␤ ------> sub f($x) { my $x ⏏}␤»
moritz r: sub f($x) { my $x }; say 'alive'
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $x␤ at /tmp/9TJLMeNhG5:1␤ ------> sub f($x) { my $x ⏏}; say 'alive'␤alive␤»
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tangentstorm how can i do: `ls` in perl 6? 06:57
moritz r: say dir() 06:59
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«star src .bashrc nom-inst1 toqast test3.pl .profile t nom-inst2 nom-inst toqast-inst toqast-inst2 examples Makefile .gitignore lib test2.pl .local bin rakudo p1 VERSION simple-tests .perlbrew std obj main.pl .lesshst nom niecza test.pl .cpanm log .bash_logout run T…
moritz r: say dir()[0].perl
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«IO::Path.new(basename => "star", directory => ".")␤»
tangentstorm ah.. nm... can't do it.
it's not the ls i want it's the input from the shell
moritz qx/ls/
tangentstorm or just any subprocess command
qx doesn't work either 07:00
moritz why/how not?
tangentstorm because it isn't defined
moritz erm, what?
tangentstorm hm
moritz moritz@jacq:~/p6/rakudo>./perl6 -e 'say qx/ls|head -n1/'
2012.05.23.a4.pdf
FROGGS $ perl6 -e 'say qx/ls -l/' 07:01
insgesamt 14220
-rw-rw-r-- 1 froggs froggs 3020 Feb 9 23:23 1.out
-rw-rw-r-- 1 froggs froggs 5433 Feb 21 20:13 201302212012.diff
has to work 07:02
moritz it doesn't work on p6eval, for security reasons
FROGGS ya, of course
tangentstorm oh
i was trying qx( whatever ) before
which was working in perl5 ... ok. cool. thanks.
sorear is it possible tangentstorm is using qx( )
tangentstorm qx/ls/ works in both perl 5 and perl 6
FROGGS tangentstorm: no, something( is always a function call
sorear ah
tangentstorm qx(ls) works in perl 5 but not perl 6
and that's why i thought it wasn't defined. 07:03
FROGGS r: sub if () { say 42 }; if( 7 == 0 ) { say "huh?" }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row, or previous statement missing semicolon?)␤at /tmp/8jaOCpBhfx:1␤------> sub if () { say 42 }; if( 7 == 0 ) ⏏{ say "huh?" }␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix…
FROGGS r: sub if ($x) { say 42 }; if( 7 == 0 ) { say "huh?" }
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row, or previous statement missing semicolon?)␤at /tmp/_5vJN1bFu1:1␤------> sub if ($x) { say 42 }; if( 7 == 0 ) ⏏{ say "huh?" }␤ expecting any of:␤ postf…
moritz tangentstorm: anything immediately followed by round parens is a subroutine call in Perl 6
sorear tangentstorm: The rule here is: "Perl 6 has no keywords". Anything that can be interpreted as a function call, will be.
FROGGS tangentstorm: you can use all keywords as function names too 07:04
tangentstorm so what is qx if it's not a keyword or or a function?
FROGGS r: sub if ($x) { say 42 }; if( 7 == 0 )
p6eval rakudo f0aa5a: OUTPUT«42␤»
moritz tangentstorm: it's a quoting construct
just like "abc"
tangentstorm fair enough ;) 07:05
thanks
sorear tangentstorm: also, qx () will work
tangentstorm for qx/ls/ { say .uc } # nice and DOSsy.. thanks :) 07:06
interesting.
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sorear if you turn it around you can lose the braces 07:06
say .uc for qx (ls)
tangentstorm say .uc ... cool
sorear in perl 5 you can do say uc for qx (ls), but we're more explicit about $_ usage 07:07
tangentstorm so why isn't run implemented? wouldn't it just be sub run($cmd) { return qx/ $cmd / } ? 07:08
sorear run is implemented 07:09
tangentstorm oh qx is quoting $cmd though.
sorear also they're very different. run lets STDOUT flow through, rather than collecting it 07:10
moritz there's qqx// for a form of qx// that acts more like double quotes (interpolating) 07:11
sorear how is run not working?
moritz both run() and shell() are implemented in rakudo
though maybe not perfectly (error reporting is less than awesome)
tangentstorm yeah
it's there, sorry.
i've got both the git version and the ubuntu package installed. 07:12
the ubuntu version is lacking it.
sorear they're also implemented in niecza, but only available if you have glib because the native C# process API sucks hard on unix
tangentstorm i guess it's just behind
sorear sucks so hard you can't even write shell()
how old is your ubuntu version? 07:13
tangentstorm kubuntu 12
sorear guessing more than a year if it's lacking run
tangentstorm oh the actual package.. hang on
sorear I meant ubuntoperl --version
tangentstorm This is perl6 version 2012.04.1 built on parrot 4.3.0 revision 0
okie doke, just won't use that. easy :) 07:16
what are the chances my 10-year old compiler is going to work? :D 07:17
j/k i already know it won't work.. the tests have been failing for years. 07:18
sorear if it's 10 years old, it's not written in perl 6 07:19
(it may be written in an unrelated language with the same name and version number though :p/sigh)
tangentstorm it's written in python of course 07:20
i don't remember if it generates PIR or PASM
pirate.he.sabren.com/viewvc.cgi/pirate/ 07:21
oh only 7 years? hmm.
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tangentstorm pirate.he.sabren.com/viewvc.cgi/pir...iew=markup <- search for "while.py" ... what is this? 07:24
i think maybe imc? to be fed into imcc ... intermediate code compiler? 07:25
sorear that pirate is yours, eh? 07:35
tangentstorm yeah 07:36
another guy started it... i wrote most of the python, with lots of help (see credits) :)
sorear I was thinking of a different pirate
bacek wrote a pirate a year or two ago, which was intended to replace IMCC 07:37
tangentstorm yeah i saw it on the list of languages... also the original lua one was called pirate. :) 07:38
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lizmat morning #perl6 08:20
FROGGS morning lizmat
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moritz \o * 08:26
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labster o/ moritz 08:48
moritz labster: fwiw I'm now spectesting a fix for RT #117583 08:51
sorear o/ folks 08:53
moritz s\orear 08:54
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dalek kudo/nom: 070f3a4 | moritz++ | src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.pm:
RT #117583: guard against NULL container spec
 08:55
ast: 2b710bd | moritz++ | S06-traits/is-copy.t:
RT #117583: is copy param can be redeclared
labster cool. not that I should have been using my there in the first place :/ 08:56
masak good forenoon, #perl6 09:05
today's plan: t2 reviews :)
diakopter luck++
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sorear sleep. 09:14
masak 'night, sorear. 09:15
moritz labster: sure, but we take good error reporting seriously
labster sorear++ is helping to improve my error reporting 09:16
sorear just remember that I'm not always on the same side of the fence you are 09:22
i see things as "feature X has been implemented in way Y in every language ever and that's how I did it in niecza, so *of course* it behaves in way Z, that's just an obvious consequence of Y" 09:23
if you think that a feature could be changed to be less surprising to the majority of people, without causing other features to be more surprising at the same time (this is the case surprisingly often), speak up. perl 6 is not targetted at compilers geeks 09:25
sleep for real now. just had to challenge that ++. :D
diakopter sorear-- ?
moritz nah, sorear++ was appropriate :-) 09:26
diakopter :) sorear++ sorear++ for challenging it
masak I think what sorear++ is saying makes sense.
making compilers geeks happy should at best be a seconday concern ;)
diakopter also, secondary
timotimo "this is going to be secon ... wait for it ... dary!" 09:27
moritz r: say 'a' ne 'a'|'b' 09:28
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«False␤»
moritz n: say 'a' ne 'a'|'b'
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«False␤»
masak secondary*, yes. 09:30
moritz > say 'a' ne 'a'|'b'|'c' 09:31
False
> if 'a' ne 'a'|'b'|'c' { say 42 }
42
wtf? am I going insane now?
diakopter www.yapcna.org/yn2013/talks/tag/%E8%9D%B6
timotimo is this not how it's supposed to work?
masak moritz: that looks... weird. 09:32
moritz well, in a say() it returns False, but the body of the if-statement is executed anyway
I *hope* that's not as specced
oh, I have an idea
it's an optimization bug 09:33
moritz looks at timotimo accusingly
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tangentstorm star: use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "or this ;-)", "blue"; 09:34
p6eval star 2013.02: OUTPUT«or this ;-)␤»
tangentstorm r: use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "or this ;-)", "blue";
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Term::ANSIColor in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, …
moritz star: use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "or this ;-)", "blue";
tangentstorm what is star?
p6eval star 2013.02: OUTPUT«or this ;-)␤»
timotimo moritz: oh my!
moritz tangentstorm: a distribution of rakudo, docs, modules and module installer 09:35
timotimo the tests didn't catch it! =o
tangentstorm when i try to run this on rakudo perl6 from github it doesn't complain but nothing happens
timotimo for the record, 'a' ne 'a'|'b'|'c' => False is correct, yes?
tangentstorm i mean it does complain
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moritz tangentstorm: yes 09:36
timotimo: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=117579
tangentstorm it says: Undeclared routine: colored
moritz erm, meant timotimo
tangentstorm: so it found the module, but didn't import the sub?
tangentstorm i guess
oddly the ==SORRY== is colored with ansi escape codes ;) 09:37
moritz timotimo: the optimization should only rewrite the autothreading if the sub actually autothreads
tangentstorm: that's done by the compiler, without using the module :-)
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tangentstorm hrm.. but if i say use Term::ANSIColoraoeuaeou; that works fine too 09:37
timotimo moritz: ne does autothreading itself?
moritz yes(ish) 09:38
labster I guess I missed part of that discussion, but still, sorear++ anyway.
moritz it redispatches to infix:<eq>, where the autothreading occurs
timotimo or rather: it behaves differently if a junction is passed?
oh! so that's why the not is moved outwards?
moritz it has arguments with Mu type constraints (and not Any)
so no autothreading happens during the call itself
timotimo so, since I already check if the operator comes from the setting, is special-casing this behavior acceptable? i fear not. 09:40
moritz it might be
timotimo i'll look at the code again
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timotimo i'll also write tests for this. 09:41
labster I think that instead of defining ne and != as !eq and !==, we should just make that a special case for junctions. Otherwise we'll just confuse people like me.
Of course, confusion is pretty much a constant state around here, so it's not saying much.
Also, pmichaud++ for pointing me towards that if/ne/junction bug.
timotimo er, from what i gather the confusing thing is that 'a' ne 'b' | 'c' | 'd' is *not* the same as ('a' ne 'b' | 'a' ne 'c' | 'a' ne 'd') 09:42
and that happens because ne and != already special-case junctions
labster yeah, but that will pretty much always return true, so it's not useful 09:43
timotimo hm. useful vs. least surprise?
tangentstorm hmmm... is a blank line required after a =cut ?
timotimo hey wait 09:44
there already are tests for this behavior. why aren't they complaining?
labster tangentstorm: =begin pod, =end pod ? 09:45
timotimo github.com/perl6/roast/blob/master...ing.t#L294 - look here?
labster I tend to prefer least surprise. (not 'a' eq 'a'|'b' ) or ('a' !eq 'a'|'b') are always available 09:46
tangentstorm =comment newline here -> \n use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "blue?", "blue";
timotimo what i said above, about special casing and making sure things come from the core setting: that's not going to work, as i only check for the |, & and ^ operators 09:47
tangentstorm :r =comment newline here -> \n use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "blue?", "blue";
moritz timotimo: because the tests don't put the return value into the condition of an 'if', which is one of the few places where the optimization does its work
tangentstorm :r =comment newline here -> ␤ use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "blue?", "blue";
i can't demonstrate in here i guess
moritz tangentstorm: use r: instead of :r 09:48
tangentstorm gah
r: =comment newline here -> ␤ use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "blue?", "blue";
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find Term::ANSIColor in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, …
tangentstorm r: =comment newline here -> \n use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "blue?", "blue";
timotimo moritz: m( of course you're right.
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing block␤at /tmp/oFiUFdaoTP:1␤------> =comment newline here -> \n ⏏use Term::ANSIColor; say colored "blue?"␤ expecting any of:␤ new term to be defined␤ constraint␤»
tangentstorm r: =pod \n=cut \n say "this will not print" 09:49
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routines:␤ cut used at line 1␤ n used at line 1␤␤»
tangentstorm r: =pod␤=cut␤ say "this will not print"
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«this will not print␤»
tangentstorm eh 09:50
pastebin.com/tLWWSbaN 09:51
whatever line is after the =cut is ignored
moritz p6eval leaves \n alone, and only translates ␤ to newlines
timotimo moritz: can i look up the chaining op in the @!block_stack and inspect its .signature and see if any of the types are Any or derived from Any with a simple smartmatch?
moritz tangentstorm: =cut doesn't do what you think in Perl 6 pod
timotimo: yes, I think so 09:52
timotimo i'll try that then :)
moritz timotimo: you can look up the Any type object, and then simply use nqp::istype($type_constraint, $Any)
timotimo great
the Optimizer already has a $!Mu for the Mu type, so i'll duplicate that code to cache a $!Any, too 09:53
tangentstorm r: =comment␤ say "this is line 2 but will not print"
n: =comment␤ say "this is line 2 but will not print"
<shrug>
tangentstorm gives up and adds the extra newline
i don't know if it's a bug or if that's just how pod works
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«this is line 2 but will not print␤» 09:54
niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«this is line 2 but will not print␤»
tangentstorm but you need a blank line after the =xxx line
moritz tangentstorm: you should read the specs for Perl 6 pod some day :-) 09:55
tangentstorm yeah.. it's been a long time
but in any case i'm getting different behavior here and on my machine 09:56
with the same code
anyway that was why the ansi import failed for me 09:58
or failed silently
oh. perl6 doesn't use cpan? 09:59
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timotimo moritz: if there are multiple constraints on one of the parameters, i'll have to check that one of them matches against Any, right? because if i had Mu and Any, both constraints would have to match, do i understand correctly? 10:01
labster tangentstorm: no, we use panda and modules.perl6.org/ 10:02
tangentstorm stackoverflow leads me to neutro, "which comes with the latest version of rakudo" but i don't have that either :/
moritz timotimo: I think it's enough to check the nominal type
timotimo hehe, that's a very old answer.
tangentstorm: gimme the link and i'll add a comment
tangentstorm stackoverflow.com/questions/3147776...for-perl-6 10:03
i searched for perl6 cpan
timotimo moritz: thanks! my code is almost ready and i'll run a few tests on it
yeah that's from 2010 10:04
moritz should edit his answer
tangentstorm ==> Bootstrapping Panda ... thanks :) 10:05
perhaps i will port AI::Fuzzy at some point then :) 10:06
moritz stackoverflow.com/a/3148098/14132 updated
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tangentstorm thanks :) 10:09
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timotimo and if the object isn't found in the lexical chain, i'll just abort the optimization 10:13
masak so, who wants to release Rakudo on Thursday? I'm willing to do June if someone signs up for April. 10:18
timotimo hm. now the optimization bails out for simple examples, too. 10:20
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Tene timotimo: you volunteered for a release yet? 10:35
10:36 cognominal joined
timotimo Tene: timotimo isn't here at the moment, feel free to leave a message 10:38
Tene timotimo: tell timotimo that he should volunteer for a release
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timotimo hm, Signature.params creates a List. how do i iterate over such a List in nqp? something like p6decont? 10:45
oh, probably just an integer index
tangentstorm i.imgur.com/O2FkZDd.png yay :) 10:47
timotimo could use some pretty-printing :D 10:48
i mean whitespace
tangentstorm that's what comes out of antr
timotimo ah, ok
tangentstorm antlr4 i mean ... you can either get that or a list of parse events, one per line 10:49
jnthn timotimo: If you look up the attribute directly then I think it's just an NQP array at that level..
yoleaux 12 Apr 2013 23:35Z <FROGGS> jnthn: that I can "require PATH" now (pushed), but can't import subs
12 Apr 2013 23:35Z <FROGGS> jnthn: I've got this patch locally applied, test file is there too: gist.github.com/FROGGS/a9ef1432e1f9d37e9770 10:50
12 Apr 2013 23:39Z <FROGGS> jnthn: won't write tests now, but will go deeper into the rabbit hole
tangentstorm Is there a built-in system for tree transformation? I haven't seen anything like that yet.
timotimo jnthn: oh, i forgot that i can just be naughty and look up private attributes on objects 10:56
i don't know what i've done o_O - Code ref 'Bool' does not exist in serialization context 11:02
jnthn Um. 11:04
Something weird, that's for sure.
timotimo oh, yes, my code is utterly wrong anyway :) 11:05
jnthn I've never actually seen that error be produced before :) 11:06
timotimo are you interested in the sillyness i wrote to cause it? 11:07
jnthn Only mildly :)
timotimo i'll not show my silly mistake in that case
jnthn I know where it comes from, just not how to get there without doing something contrived :)
I guess silly mistake could cut it though :)
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timotimo will target=optimize no longer output the result of optimisation? 11:35
oh, it does 11:36
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timotimo huh. i no longer think that the code i wrote is particularly silly 11:52
FROGGS hi there 12:07
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masak FROGGS! \o/ 12:19
FROGGS masak! \o/
:o)
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FROGGS masak: what's rin... err, what's up? 12:20
masak well, since I'm in my kitchen, a rice paper lamp is up. it's currently on. 12:26
(currently making lunch. after that, meaning to dive into t2 reviewing.) 12:27
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FROGGS *g* 12:29
I'm not sure what I can do next... having problems to get `require PATH` to work, and this feature would help me pretty much right now 12:30
hmmm, maybe... 12:31
FROGGS has an idea
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masak I don't think we ever got an RT ticket for irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-12-12#i_6236512 16:17
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masak rn: gist.github.com/masak/5379061 16:22
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Line 1␤Line 2␤Line 3␤Line 4␤␤»
..rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«Asked to remove 4 spaces, but the shortest indent is 0 spaces in block at /tmp/HZMtZbv4Ag:3␤␤Line 1␤Line 2␤Line 3␤Line 4␤␤»
masak submits rakudobug
colomon masak: do you reckon niecza's behavior is correct? 16:44
masak colomon: yes, I do.
in effect, heredoc de-indentataion should be performed at the AST level. 16:46
so that interpolated strings aren't de-indented.
lizmat note, that even if you prefix {foo} with some more text 16:47
like "Line 2{foo} 16:48
it gives the same error, which is completely counterintuitive
masak right. 16:49
the problem right now is actually Line 3.
which the de-indenter expects to be indented, but it isn't. 16:50
and it shouldn't be.
lizmat rn: gist.github.com/lizmat/5379159
p6eval rakudo 070f3a, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Line 1␤Line 2Line 3␤Line 4␤␤»
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lizmat huh? 16:50
masak lizmat: need a newline to expose the behavior.
lizmat: "\nLine 3"
lizmat ack, indeed
then it's even more counterintuitive 16:51
it shouldn't ever matter what is happening inside the sub, I would think
masak that's what the RT ticket is all about.
it shouldn't matter what is happening in interpolated strings.
current Rakudo implementation does interpolation-then-indentation, because it's easier. 16:52
it should do indentation-then-interpolation (like Niecza and STD.pm6), because it's intuitive to the user.
lizmat is it not a compile time optimization that is biting us? 16:53
masak no.
it's easier than that.
Rakudo is doing de-indentation of the heredoc and interpolation in the wrong order.
see above explanation ;) 16:54
lizmat ack, just verified it is not a compile time optimization :-)
masak the trouble with doing de-indentation *before* interpolation is that the de-indent has to happen at compile time, basically.
jnthn++ who gave us the current Rakudo implementation, balked a bit at that.
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lizmat why would you do this at run time then? I mean, every time you execute that say ? 16:56
masak because each time, the interpolating things may differ. 16:57
"a{foo()}b" is sugar for "a" ~ foo() ~ "b"
also, jnthn invoked "easier to explain" as an advantage of the current model. 16:58
jnthn I'm fine for it to be changed, it somebody has a patch :)
colomon rn: gist.github.com/colomon/5379188 16:59
masak .oO( passive-cooperative )
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«Asked to remove 4 spaces, but the shortest indent is 0 spaces in block at /tmp/lILW1aFZME:3␤␤Line 1␤ Line 2␤Line 3␤Line 4␤␤»
..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Line 1␤ Line 2␤Line 3␤Line 4␤␤»
jnthn It already does de-indent at compile time for the non-interpolation case, iirc. 17:00
masak oh, nice. 17:01
colomon btw, de-indent was the #1 reason I initially got excited about p6 -- and yet I keep forgetting people have actually implemented it now! 17:02
masak ;) 17:03
lizmat will think about her heredoc expectations over some Thai dinner 17:04
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colomon Thai++ 17:05
17:05 lizmat left
colomon 's C++ generating p5 code will be much, much cleaner when he finally re-implements it in p6 17:06
masak has a great idea for an application written in Perl 6, but very few tuits 17:09
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japhb moritz, dunno if someone has already mentioned this, but since I'm at 8:55 in the irclogs -- 'RT #123456:' is getting turned into 'RT :' in the logs. I checked the page source and it's that way in the HTML, not just a display artifact. 17:17
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moritz that kinda sucks 17:35
japhb nodnod :-( 17:40
moritz the good news is that it's logged correctly, so no data lost 17:41
japhb That's definitely a good thing. 17:43
dalek p: 71fab2d | jnthn++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Clean up JVM/Parrot divergences in src/core.
 17:44
p: 84d8cc0 | jnthn++ | src/how/RoleToClassApplier.pm:
Fix to role collision handling from NQP JVM.

The collisions list is just names, not code objects.
moritz the offending commit to ilbot is 2e4526c85dbd3a8fa6943a2493e8863e08f1ca1d 17:45
ah, and I see why 17:46
moritz tries a fix 17:49
japhb: thanks, fixed
japhb moritz++ 17:50
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dukeleto o/ 17:50
japhb o/
jnthn o/
dukeleto got sick of all the "$project is dead" FUD : twitter.com/dukeleto/status/323116597575307264 17:51
FROGGS o/
japhb Good on ya, dukeleto 17:52
dalek p-jvm-prep: ada971f | jnthn++ | nqp-src/NQPCORE.setting:
Clean up JVM/Parrot divergence in NQPCORE.setting.
 17:53
japhb Catching up in the logs to where I first started talking that day always gives me a sense of temporal torque 17:56
jnthn
.oO( temporal talk )
 17:57
japhb .tell tangentstorm Since it looks like no one responded -- yes, it's intended that you can treat a file as both a module and a program. MAIN should only be called when the file is being run as the top-level program, so you can define a MAIN in your module to allow it to do something useful when run directly. 17:59
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to tangentstorm.
dalek p: dacc4d7 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/ (7 files):
Resolve divergence in QAST nodes.
p-jvm-prep: ad1a19f | jnthn++ | nqp-src/QASTNodes.nqp:
Resolve divergence in QAST nodes.
tangentstorm i'm here ;)
yoleaux 17:59Z <japhb> tangentstorm: Since it looks like no one responded -- yes, it's intended that you can treat a file as both a module and a program. MAIN should only be called when the file is being run as the top-level program, so you can define a MAIN in your module to allow it to do something useful when run directly.
tangentstorm awesome. thanks, japhb :) 18:00
japhb np. :-)
moritz, did you ever figure out what caused the "Failure at end of for loop" sink problem? 18:01
FROGGS basically if one thinks .oO( can Perl 6 do it way A or way b? ) you can answer with: Yes! (both)
japhb: does this still happen? moritz made for loops eager ten days ago, you maybe want to re-check 18:02
japhb FROGGS, this was more recent -- I came across it a couple days ago. 18:03
FROGGS ahh, k 18:04
just wanted to mention
japhb Good thought though -- always good to make sure a problem report is actually still relevant. :-) 18:05
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masak yoleaux: isn't it that way already? rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=114354 has been resolved. 18:31
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masak yoleaux: (and I just tested locally and MAIN is only called if it's in the script file run, not if it's in a use'd module) 18:32
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lizmat ast: say 1 18:33
rn: use foo
p6eval rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find foo in any of: /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/5.2.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval…
..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.Exception: Unable to locate module foo in /home/p6eval/niecza/lib /home/p6eval/niecza␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/NieczaPathSearch.pm6 line 23 (NieczaPathSearc…
lizmat rn: use "foo"
p6eval niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'use' used at line 1␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/STD.pm6 line 1147 (P6.comp_unit @ 37) ␤ at /home…
..rakudo 070f3a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ use used at line 1␤␤»
japhb masak, why are you talking to yoleaux?
masak japhb: oops, level mixup ;) 18:34
japhb: I see now that I really meant to be talking to you.
japhb heh
lizmat is this a bug? 18:35
$ perl6 --target=ast -e 'use foo'
===SORRY!===
Could not find foo in any of:
masak japhb: now that I re-read what you wrote, I'm not sure you were implying "but it's NYI".
lizmat: no, I don't think so.
lizmat: you can't compile something without following module dependencies.
japhb masak, Oh I see, you're confirming that it is implemented. Yes, I was pretty sure it was, but not quite 100%, so thank you. :-) 18:36
masak lizmat: (because the use'd module may change what it means to parse things in the current compunit)
lizmat ack, gotcha, so it bails before it can generate the AST output 18:37
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masak yeah, it fails during compilation because it doesn't find foo.pm 18:43
dalek kudo/nom: b5bdbe4 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Str.pm:
Convert pir::const::CCLASS_PRINTING to nqp::
 18:45
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dalek p-jvm-prep: d6101f5 | jnthn++ | nqp-src/QRegex.nqp:
Remove commented pir:: and replace with nqp::.
 18:52
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dalek p: 49dd649 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/NFA.nqp:
Remove some bogus type constraints.

Since we typically calculate with floats in NQP, we can't rely on the arguments being int here. Somehow we get away with this on Parrot, but NQP JVM enforces them more Perl 6-ishly. Also, they may have led to reboxing, so we may be better off without them anyway.		 19:05
p: 008a923 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/NFA.nqp:
Remove misleading commented out code and a hack.

The code explained what the C op it was replaced with at the point it was translated. However, now things have evolved, so better to just toss it. b48d067 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Operations.nqp: Add nqp::setelems.
To abstract away pir::assign__0Pi.
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p: d8426fc | jnthn++ | src/stage0/ (9 files):
Update bootstrap to get some nqp:: ops.
p: a3d1061 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/Cursor.nqp:
Clean up Cursor and related classes.

Means that most code now matches the JVM version.
p-jvm-prep: 57b51e0 | jnthn++ | nqp-src/QRegex.nqp:
Updates to Cursor to sync with Parrot NQP.
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lue hello world o/ 19:20
( and jnthn++ )
jnthn is out of this world :P 19:21
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masak lue! \o/ 19:30
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dalek p: 67270f7 | jnthn++ | src/QRegex/P6Regex/Grammar.nqp:
Add SC handle uniqueness fix from NQP JVM.
 19:32
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sorear o/ all 19:41
japhb o/ 19:42
moritz, pull request for you for json.
jnthn o/ sorear
japhb moritz, if you accept that one, I'll do a matching PR for panda's copy to get them back in sync.
dalek p-jvm-prep: e2519bd | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
Implement nqp::setelems, nqp::flip.
 19:44
p-jvm-prep: 8ecef05 | jnthn++ | nqp-src/NQPP6QRegex.pm:
Bring in latest P6Regex fixes.
sorear I thought nqp already ran on the jvm
or is that a supposed to be "prepping nqp-jvm (for Rakudo)" 19:45
jnthn sorear: Yeah. The nqp-jvm-prep repo has copies of lots of things that have diverged in various places.
sorear: Currently I'm reconciling those, so I can get the JVM support into the main nqp repo 19:46
And yes, this is in prep for Rakudo porting also.
sorear jnthn: so presently nqp-jvm-prep is the only working nqp/jvm?
jnthn sorear: Yeah. I did the port in a separate repo.
sorear nifto anyway
jnthn Now re-unifying. 19:47
moritz grand unification \o/
dukeleto jnthn++ # a pleasure to watch the magic from a distance 19:49
dukeleto reminds the locals that he is here to facilitate communication between parrot and anybody using parrot 19:52
please let me know if there are any parrot issues that are especially blocking anybody that don't have current forward momentum 19:53
dukeleto goes back in his cave
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dalek nda: 2bec3b1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | ext/JSON__Tiny/ (6 files):
Update JSON::Tiny to latest moritz/json
 20:01
nda: b239b23 | japhb++ | ext/JSON__Tiny/ (6 files):
Merge pull request #43 from japhb/master

Update JSON::Tiny to latest from moritz/json
masak dukeleto: you said today that Parrot has excellent threading support. if that's so, then what's stopping us from having «+» et all hyper-thread on Rakudo? 20:02
*et al.
dukeleto masak: somebody with the tuits to make it happen, i guess
masak: i think making the simplest possible <<+>> that could work is a good goal 20:03
masak: i am willing to help with this effort, but unfortunately my time is split between many things right now
masak: it cannot be only me
masak: but i can help
masak: i need to leave very soon, but i would love to talk more about thi 20:04
this
20:04 adu_ joined
masak ok. 20:04
just wondering.
moritz iirc there was some issues with how rakudo and/or nqp handle lexicals that was incompatible with parrot threads
japhb removes another item from his mental clutter
dukeleto masak: what can i do to help you? or somebody that you delegate to?
masak dukeleto: I'm actually not much involved in threading, I'm just curious why there's a disconnect at present. 20:05
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adu_ wonders how lexical and threads could possibly interact 20:05
dukeleto github.com/parrot/parrot/issues/936 is where things are
adu_: :)
adu_: in devious devious ways
parrot has insufficient docs 20:06
adu_ dukeleto: agreed
dukeleto I can completely and truthfully admit that.
That is not because Parrot hates it's users. It is due to a lack of developer time*motivation
masak *nod* 20:07
adu_ we need to throw some prize money at parrot developers
like $100 for whoever writes the thread docs 20:08
diakopter I'll pay you $100 not to do that
dukeleto www.gittip.com/on/github/parrot/
or gittip.com/dukeleto :)
adu_ diakopter: why?
dukeleto but it is not $
it is time*motivation
$ helps some people make time, though
adu_ also, if history has proven anything, it's that money poorly spent generally makes the situation worse 20:09
diakopter thank you
dalek p: 08d0103 | jnthn++ | src/HLL/Actions.pm:
s/atkey/atpos/ fix from NQP JVM.
 20:10
p: ea56c24 | jnthn++ | src/ (3 files):
Various tweaks to HLL and NQP for JVM compat.
adu_ for example, the U.S. has spent trillions on the drug war over the past 10 years, and what did we get? face-eating-zombies...
dukeleto adu_: wasting trillions of $ is not one of the problems of parrot developers
adu_: but i get your drift :) 20:11
i think a meatspace hackathon specifically between parrot + rakudo (+whoever else I don't know about) is needed to solve the problem.
it could be at YAPC::NA this year
diakopter no one in parrot is going to yapc::na that I know of 20:12
dukeleto diakopter: does that mean that no parrot devs will be there?
diakopter: i was planning on going, and there has been talk by Util++ to organize a hackathon
diakopter okay, I didn't see you on the registered list 20:13
dukeleto diakopter: cotto and chromatic will no doubt be there (dare I speak the name!)
diakopter: i am not
diakopter chromatic is not going
dukeleto oh really! What a heretic.
diakopter: i was busy and never submitted my talks or anything
dukeleto has had some stressful IRL events recently that have been serious time sinks 20:14
diakopter there are plenty of folks committed to the hackathons before and after the conf
onsite
dukeleto so it sounds like just getting enough parrot people there will solve the problem 20:15
diakopter cotto is not registered either
dukeleto diakopter: he has been MIA lately 20:16
adu_ also, I think it would be super-amazing if each Parrot instruction had it's own page
dukeleto adu_: define "parrot instruction"
adu_ for example, each x86 instruction has 2-3 pages describing it
diakopter has a conniption fit
adu_ dukeleto: for example, fdiv_*_*
dukeleto adu_: i don't know what "x86 instruction" means in this context. Are you talking about parrot opcodes? 20:17
adu_: ah, opcodes
adu_ dukeleto: what's the difference between instructions and opcodes?
dukeleto adu_: we call them opcodes in parrot :)
adu_ I call them instructions, regardless of VM/ real M
dukeleto adu_: synonyms, as far as i know. parrot might call something else an instruction, though
adu_: parrot.github.com 20:18
adu_: if you would like to make a pull request against that, with your idea of what the page of fdiv_*_* would look like, that would help
adu_ I can see there being a difference between instruction *code* and instruction *usage*
dukeleto adu_: github.com/parrot/parrot.github.com
adu_ oo
dukeleto adu_: that is our experimental website repo, with the history of all parrot docs for every version of parrot 20:19
adu_: and various things not on parrot.org
adu_ one thing I would want to know is *if* you don't add any instructions, then what number would it be in the PBC file
dukeleto adu_: these are good questions for parrot-dev. I must head out the door.
adu_ ok 20:20
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diakopter dukeleto: yes, "getting enough parrot people there" would solve the problem. but the room holds only 54 people... 20:33
the only person still with the project who's contributed VM code in the past 6 months is you 20:39
in the master branch, anyway 20:40
(well, and the non-committer whose stuff you merged)
dalek p-jvm-prep: 0888df0 | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
Add a cheaty nqp::sprintf(...).

Based on code by thecabinet++. Mostly added so we can uncomment the couple of places NQP uses it, but should basically work. An NQP implementation of this would work even better, though.		 20:48
p-jvm-prep: 140c9ba | jnthn++ | nqp-src/ (2 files):
A little more syncing with Parrot NQP.
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dalek p: d46b465 | jnthn++ | src/HLL/ (2 files):
Final couple of syncs with NQP JVM.

Remaining differences are bits that need to be backend specific.		 20:54
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lue r: my @a = 1,2,3,2,1; say (@a,3).uniq 21:00
p6eval rakudo b5bdbe: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
lue r: my @a = 1,2,3,2,1; say (@a.uniq,3).uniq
p6eval rakudo b5bdbe: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 111608 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:50161) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9722)␤called from Sub '' pc 277567 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:121659) (src/gen/CORE.setting:5639)␤called from Sub '…
lue any ideas as to why this fails?
sorear pretty, secondary error 21:02
japhb jnthn, does this mean that you will be able to merge the nqp and nqp-jvm-prep repos tonight, or is there still non-trivial effort in making the backend-specific bits share one repo?
jnthn japhb: It's more work that I'll manage tonight.
labster r: my @a = 1,2,3,2,1; say (@a.uniq.flat,3).uniq
p6eval rakudo b5bdbe: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 111608 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:50161) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9722)␤called from Sub '' pc 277567 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:121659) (src/gen/CORE.setting:5639)␤called from Sub '…
jnthn japhb: But it means I can start with that process, yes 21:03
japhb jnthn, cool beans. 21:05
jnthn++ and ++jnthn then. :-)
lue r: my @a = 1,2,3,2,1; say [@a.uniq,3].uniq 21:06
p6eval rakudo b5bdbe: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
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diakopter how the FFFFFFFFFFFFF did the parrot foundation get accepted to GSOC this year with a list of project ideas IDENTICAL to last year's? Especially when the list still includes the 3 projects that were worked on last summer!????!??!!!!?! 21:12
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labster r: sub not-foo ($foo) { !$foo }; not-foo(1) 21:13
japhb Does Dalvik support invokedynamic? Which is to say, could it run nqp-jvm?
p6eval rakudo b5bdbe: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ foo used at line 1␤␤»
labster . o O (user error or parse error?) 21:14
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jnthn japhb: Not yet, afaik. 21:16
diakopter (and no, I'm not saying they're identical because both links point to the same place. comparing revisions with the year-old one.
)
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dalek p/jvm-support: b7c2129 | jnthn++ | / (63 files):
Use .nqp extension consistently.
 21:43
p/jvm-support: 491b38b | jnthn++ | 3rdparty/asm/ (2 files):
Add 3rdparty/asm from nqp-jvm-prep repo.
p/jvm-support: a8721d5 | jnthn++ | / (123 files):
Move C code, ops and PMCs under src/vm/parrot/.
p/jvm-support: 669532a | jnthn++ | .gitignore:
Update .gitignore.
21:47 fgomez joined
lue
.oO(every JVM-related nqp commit makes me a little more excited. The src/vm/parrot commit doubly so.)
 21:50
dalek p/jvm-support: 48af6ff | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
ModuleLoader.nqp will be VM-specific.
 22:13
p/jvm-support: 7b9b760 | jnthn++ | src/Regex/constants.pir:
Toss dead code.
p/jvm-support: ba54813 | jnthn++ | / (7 files):
Parrot QAST backed moves under src/vm/parrot.
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dalek p/jvm-support: af466c8 | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
Split out HLL::Backend from HLL::Compiler.
 22:41
p/jvm-support: d6ff63d | jnthn++ | / (3 files):
NQP Ops.nqp is also VM-specific.
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jnthn 'night, #perl6 23:00
sorear night 23:01
23:03 jaldhar joined
tadzik japhb++ # good job on panda 23:07
japhb :-) 23:08
23:20 tgt left 23:25 berekuk left 23:39 gtodd joined
masak 'night, #perl6 23:44
colomon \o 23:46

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