»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by diakopter on 14 April 2013.
lichtkind everything .) 00:00
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japhb Ah, well -- perl6-bench can extract and build various versions of Rakudo, benchmark them, and compare them. But it does not yet have comprehensive tests to really check all angles. There are some tests that are runnable on current Rakudo that are so incredibly space or time wasting that they cannot be reasonably run on older ones -- those usually tell quite the tale. 00:12
lichtkind, otherwise I'd say look in the git commit logs for promising commits, and talk to pmichaud or jnthn for things they remember. But if you do so -- write it all down so that in the future when people ask, we can just point them somewhere 00:13
Oh, and pmichaud did an interesting presentation on big improvements to startup time and such. 00:14
lichtkind where :) 00:15
thanks y lot
actually im writing an article :) 00:17
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 771936f | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 02:07
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dalek ast: ff603bb | coke++ | S11-modules/require.t:
pugs fudge
 02:16
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lichtkind is | now a sigil? 02:33
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sorear no. 02:35
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darkf can roles imply other roles? (e.g. if I have a role Foo that when included with `does` will also ensure role Bar is included) 02:45
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lichtkind darkf: i think so 02:53
darkf lichtkind: how would I do that? just `$self does ...` in the role or another way? 02:55
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lichtkind darkf: both ways with does in role or with also does compile time 02:59
i mean both is compile time
darkf lichtkind: alright, cool - how would I access members from other roles inside another role? I get "Attribute $!x not declared in role Foo" because it's defined in Bar, even when doing `role Foo does Bar`, etc. 03:01
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japhb darkf, private attributes really are private to the class/role they are defined in. 03:03
This is What You Want, even though many languages seem to not get this right.
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japhb darkf, perhaps you want to declare and refer to public attributes instead? 03:04
darkf japhb: yep - they should be public data 03:05
skids S14 states that private attributes are not private from the viewpoint of role composition. 03:06
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skids Which is important for actually making roles useful. 03:06
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skids It's just NYI, AFIAK. 03:06
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darkf well, to be clear, I am trying to do this: pastebin.com/TDwxnscE I just don't understand how to access Foo's x member I suppose 03:09
japhb r: role Bar { has $.a; }; role Foo does Bar { has $.b; method set_a($new) { $!a = $new }; }; class Baz does Foo { }; my Baz $baz .= new(a => 1, b => 2); say $baz.a; $baz.set_a(4); say $baz.a
camelia rakudo 7cd330: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Attribute $!a not declared in role Foo␤at /tmp/FF14SHhAex:1␤------> Bar { has $.b; method set_a($new) { $!a⏏ = $new }; }; class Baz does Foo { }; m␤»
skids Yes I think that is to spec, just not yet implemented.
darkf ah 03:10
skids I've had to use public attributes where I really want privates.
Though I'm unclear as to whether it is legal via the "$e does Bar" 03:11
but with just a class E does Bar I think it is specced to work. 03:12
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darkf skids: since I am new to Perl 6 (and really Perl in general) - would public attributes let me do this? - what would that look like? 03:14
skids It seems to work with public attributes, yes. (just changed $!x etc to e.g. $.x and actually assigned a value to .x) 03:17
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darkf skids: oh, awesome, thanks! 03:19
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dalek ast: d915694 | coke++ | S (4 files):
pugs fudge
 03:40
gs.hs: 371d836 | coke++ | t/spectest.data:
track removed test
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dalek kudo/nom: 0d1d119 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Move lines() method from Match into Cool. (RT #117461)
 04:28
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[Coke] the def for multi mehtod fmt(List ...) seems dodgy. 05:18
(the code seems to match the spec, but I'm not clear how it's sane.)
r: "1\n2\n3" ~~ /.*/; say $/.lines
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«1 2 3␤»
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[Coke] rakudo: use Test; eval_lives_ok '1<&1' 05:24
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤# Error: Whitespace required before < operator␤»
moritz r: say Match ~~ Cool 05:25
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«True␤»
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 39a9a11 | chromatic++ | source/index.html:
Improved accuracy of perl6.org meta description.
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[Coke] chromatic++ 05:30
r: say 638 - 70
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«568␤»
[Coke] rakudo: say { $^x }.assuming(1).signature 05:31
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«No such method 'assuming' for invocant of type 'Block'␤ in block at /tmp/QJ887nOCm4:1␤␤»
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[Coke] nom: role A { role B {} }; A::B.new; say "alive" 05:40
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«Could not find symbol '&B'␤ in method <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:10834␤ in any at src/gen/Metamodel.nqp:2504␤ in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/Metamodel.nqp:2492␤ in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.nqp:939␤ in block at /tmp/lKff6TvZBO:1␤␤»…
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FROGGS morning 06:29
[Coke]++ # good job 06:30
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lizmat morning #perl6 06:41
fwiw, I don't agree with github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/39a9a1152e
FROGGS lizmat: because it really is another language, rather then a newer version? 06:42
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lizmat well, for one I think chromatic should have consulted about such a change, that will have ramifications far beyond that page 06:56
and yes, I think Perl 6 is just the next major version of Perl 06:57
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lizmat back in 15 07:00
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labster chromatic-- for trolling 07:30
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lizmat thinks its worse than trolling 07:38
*it's 07:39
as a former perl 6 leader / pumpking, he should know better
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cxreg lizmat: the wording in that diff has been generally accepted by both the perl 5 and perl 6 communities for a few years now... 08:03
lizmat then why does he change it *now* ? 08:05
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lizmat also, then why does *he* change it now? 08:05
grrrr, afk for the rest of the day 08:08
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kresike hello all you happy perl6 people 08:32
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timotimo liudelong_______: is something wrong with your 'net connection? you keep dropping out and back in 08:40
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timotimo that probably got lost 08:41
liudelong_______: is something wrong with your 'net connection? you keep dropping out and back in
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FROGGS timotimo: you're doubling the spam :o) 08:52
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cognominal lizmat, I have answered on github to chromatic's patch. the bottom line : we can see it either way, but "let's do as the romans do" and speak of versions instead of families. 09:07
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masak morning, #perl6 09:33
FROGGS hi masak 09:36
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diakopter "welcome to day 1 of masochist training" 09:45
"er, I mean masakist" 09:46
"or did you hear me right the first time
?"
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masak cognominal: while I agree with your comment on chromatic++'s change, I don't see the connection between the two. 10:05
I prefer "newest" to "next", because "next" suffers from the "tomorrow never arrives" problem.
diakopter the email? 10:06
masak I haven't seen an email yet.
looking.
I was only talking about the comment on github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commit/39a9a1152e
diakopter er yes
I saw that via email
er 10:07
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diakopter yes. 10:07
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diakopter I would like to express a sifferent opinio than the comment on Perl 6's competition 10:11
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diakopter I don't think we should try to position, market, or think of Perl 6 as competition with those languages 10:13
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diakopter in the rakudo implementation at least, I believe it's much more comparable to the capabiloties of the languages with more than 3% market share 10:15
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diakopter in the not too distant medium-term, anyway ;) 10:16
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diakopter that is, 10:21
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diakopter if you think of the language as competing for indivi 10:25
ergh wheels up
bbl
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cognominal masak: he uses in his commit the "language family" expression and I suggest keeping the word "versions" because it is the common usage. 10:28
masak ok. 10:30
yes, then I think I see.
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moritz r: say ("a\nb\nc\n" ~~ /.+/).lines.perl 10:41
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«("a", "b", "c").list␤»
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masak cognominal: also, reading lizmat's reaction in the backlog, I am less aligned with chromatic and more aligned with lizmat. 10:48
it's not OK to snipe perl6.org web page changes from the sidelines.
either you're actively involved or you're not. 10:49
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cognominal arf, I have started a troll :( 10:52
masak "started a troll"? 10:53
did you mean "fed a troll"?
cognominal :) :(
masak well, if there's general agreement that the commit is not productive, then we should revert it.
hoelzro since chromatic was once so invested in Perl 6, why has he become so...spiteful? 10:54
I would understand disappointed
but it seems like he gets a kick out of belittling Perl 6.
cognominal according to sjn, the agreement is on the side of chromatic. 10:55
timotimo could you give a link to the #perl6 irclog for me?
masak timotimo: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6
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cognominal Apparently, the p5er opinion is "Perl 6 forks Perl into a family" while the p6er opinion is "Perl 6 is what Perl ought to be". 10:59
10:59 ChanServ sets mode: -o masak
masak cognominal: I disagree with that description of the situation. 11:00
cognominal: do you remember mst's post and mine?
hoelzro I think I would still classify myself as a p5er, but I agree with opinion #2
masak I agree with opinion #2 as well.
but I don't think opinion #1 is limited to p5ers. 11:01
hoelzro indeed 11:02
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masak and the point isn't really about "what Perl ought to be", the point is really about "should we emphasize 6 > 5" and "do we call it 'next version' or 'next major release'?" 11:02
sjn vaguely remembers that the "Perl family" thing was discussed at the reunification summit in Perl. Anyone here that was there?
masak
and "Perl family" really started with the two "bridge" blog posts.
time to link them, I guess, to provide background. hold on.
strangelyconsistent.org/blog/how-pe...ill-us-all 11:03
shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/f_ck-perl-6/
now, I know you will see mst's title and go "wot's he mean?"
but mst is actively *helping* Perl 6 here, in a very roundabout way which speaks to active p5ers. 11:04
...to the point where he has shaped the discourse to be able to say something like "Perl 5 is about creating the best possible today, while Perl 6 is about creating all the best possible tomorrows" on the last YAPC::EU. 11:05
it's not something that could have been believed by p5ers 4 years ago, according to mst.
cognominal I hope that someday we will embed rakudo into chrome, creating an environment that I would call camelia. And there would no point of comparing camellia to perl 5 being entities of different nature. But I am day dreaming. 11:06
masak see also strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-wi...-true-heir
and strangelyconsistent.org/blog/perl-6...-languages 11:07
hoelzro that mst post was great 11:08
cognominal r: sub a(@a) { @a.push: 1 }; my @a; a(@a); say(@a) 11:19
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak hoelzro: yeah, mst has been instrumental in calming the waves in the p5-p6 relations. 11:20
FROGGS hoelzro: you might enjoy mst's yapc recordings at youtube 11:21
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cognominal ewith that semantic of allowing modifying composite arguments, we have little chance to avoid the successive folding and unfolding as an optimisation. like in trying to inline &b into &a : sub a (*@a) { b |@a } 11:23
except by doing static code analysis? 11:24
supposing here that &b is something like sub b(*@a) { … } 11:25
r: sub a(*@a) { @a.push: 1 }; my @a; a(|@a); say(@a) 11:26
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«␤»
cognominal At least modifying slurpy arguments should be forbidden. 11:27
timotimo masak: i was hoping for a link directly to the time that the discussion started 11:28
cognominal timotimo: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-04-22#i_6732277 11:29
is there any instance in the wild of modifying slurpy arguments? 11:30
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masak timotimo: sorry. :) I suspected that's what you wanted, but it was too-funny-to-resist to just take you at your word :P 11:34
cognominal masak: well, be consistent and don't blame census to take your [got to] #server literally :) 11:37
* go to
timotimo masak: i assumed as much :)
census huh ? 11:38
:)
cognominal++
timotimo oh, there was not so much irc conversation, that might be why i i^Hmissed it 11:40
i even got mails about it!
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census masak++ 11:44
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masak cognominal: I don't blame him, really. it was the situation I found funny, not census' actions. 11:54
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masak cognominal: but yeah, I'm a hypocrite. guilty as charged. :) 11:55
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census i'm gullable! 11:59
masak likes to play that prank me on me often and i fall for it nearly all of the time ....
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mathw really likes the Perl 5 <-> Perl 6 family thing that's been emerging 12:04
(sudden Gentoo flashback: emerge perl-family)
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masak census: it's actually spelled "guillillillible". :P 12:07
census hahaha 12:08
cognominal I can spell bananana but I don't know when to stop
masak named after Gulliver in Gulliver's Travels.
boy, did they fool him to believe a bunch of stuff. 12:09
cognominal mathw: family like in family feud :(
pmichaud good morning, #perl6
masak siblings bicker now and then.
and deface each other's web pages ;) 12:10
pmichaud! \o/
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mathw hi pmichaud 12:23
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pmichaud (perl6.org changes) I think it's chromatic++ on this one. 12:35
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pmichaud I don't think it should be reverted. "next major version" goes against the core of the mst/masak posts. 12:38
masak I think I agree.
...and people are still feel to refer to Perl 6 as "the next major version" or whatever, in private. but it's good if the web page doesn't. 12:39
pmichaud In fact, I remember noticing at the time of the posts that the meta tag still had "next major version", but didn't feel in-the-loop enough at the time to make the change on my own.
(because I was busy dealing with a totally different flame war at the time) 12:40
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masak wonders if open source communities are flame-war-driven 12:42
timotimo if someone is gullable, what does one do to h^Hthem with gulls? 12:43
i.e. how does one gull someone?
hoelzro masak: just throw a boiler over the flames: steam power! 12:45
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gtodd postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Str 12:51
...
in block at ./parse-spectest-progress.p6:25
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[Coke] pmichaud: I just caught up with backscroll and agree with you. I think the change he made is in line with what we've been saying collectively. 12:51
cognominal There is a positional_delegate role in nqp and not in rakudo. What is the rational?
pmichaud cognominal: note that nqp and rakudo are not always precisely synced. 12:53
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pmichaud especially now, with nqp getting lots of changes to support multi-vm strategies. 12:53
so there may be a reason for them being different, but that reason could also be "because we haven't updated rakudo to match yet" 12:54
cognominal pmichaud: in this occurrence, I should understand it is the later reason? 12:55
pmichaud cognominal: I don't know... probably jnthn++ would have to say for sure. 12:56
cognominal it is a nice feature btw
pmichaud maybe see when positional_delegate was added. 12:57
if it's recent, then that argues for "rakudo hasn't caught up yet"
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gtodd "postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Str" ... comes from a block where I add parsed thingies to an array .. which I thought I remembered working. Is this wrong: 13:00
@pass.push: @csv.list.[$i][0]<<pass>>;
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moritz it lookos like @csv.list.[$i][0] is a Str, not a Hash 13:01
*looks
gtodd yeah ... I wonder why it worked with a previous rakudo ... I must've changed something 13:02
cognominal pmichaud: they have been added in February
moritz gtodd: old-ish rakudo had a bug that you could hash-index a string
pmichaud cognominal: then yes, I think it's added for multi-vm capabilities and rakudo just isn't using it yet in the nom branch. 13:03
pmichaud utterly fails at posting a comment to 39a9115
gtodd moritz: wow! :-)
moritz: thank you for making me feel less insane :) 13:04
timotimo moritz: how did that behave? that seems weird
moritz timotimo: it was weird
timotimo how hard would it be to set up a system where one can evaluate an expression on hundreds of rakudo versions? 13:05
pmichaud timotimo: I suspect we first need hundreds of rakudo versions. :)
timotimo automatically. and have sensible output about where the differences happen
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timotimo generalise hundreds to N ;) 13:05
maybe even git coul handle the "backend" parts. it should be enough to track a few folders and checkout the versions one after another 13:06
gtodd timotimo: that would be amazin 13:07
timotimo are there some environment variables that change where things are put?
like ~/.perl6? where does that come from?
oh, apparently that doesn't exist any more on my system, must be a fossil
masak timotimo: it's an intriguing idea. a bit like 'git bisect', but with lots of Rakudo revisions pre-built in different directories. 13:10
timotimo: and one could still do a 'git bisect'-like algorithm on those directories, zooming in on the differences quickly. 13:11
pmichaud I essentially do that locally -- I have a directory that keeps compiled versions of all rakudo releases.
spider-mario LibreOffice does that, does it not?
I think I’ve read that recently
timotimo masak: sounds like a fun project to me.
getting all the rakudo stars would probably give a decent sampling of the rakudo progress
pmichaud I don't have a system to submit a piece of code to them all simultaneously, though -- haven't needed that.
spider-mario they seem to do that, indeed
they call it bibisect
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spider-mario wiki.documentfoundation.org/QA/HowToBibisect 13:12
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gtodd maybe the system for submitting the code to the rakudos could be built with perl5 making for more p5-p6 family togetherness 13:15
masak only now realizes that the chromatic commit pertained to something in the *meta* information on the page, not something actually appearing in the page body, which has been saying "spunky little sister" for ages 13:16
yep, folks. this is a non-issue. moving right along.
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[Coke] More likely we'd try to write it in perl6 and eat our own dog food. 13:16
masak +1 13:17
nwc10 would approve ;)
timotimo gtodd: if i were to make this system, it'd have to be perl6, or maybe python.
moritz masak: the meta stuff might appear on google result pages, so it's kinda important-ish 13:20
gtodd dogfood.eat is good :-) 13:21
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gtodd our $dogfood.eat ? 13:21
moritz (our $dogfood).eat
gtodd right 13:23
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moritz r: (our $dogfood).eat 13:23
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«No such method 'eat' for invocant of type 'Any'␤ in block at /tmp/IjBB4HoNGs:1␤␤»
pmichaud r: (our $dogfood).sink 13:25
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«No such method 'sink' for invocant of type 'Any'␤ in block at /tmp/r7pMIyAIoP:1␤␤»
pmichaud o_O
gtodd moritz: names for the system are suggesting themselves before the system is built .... kennel? pound?
pmichaud "litter" 13:27
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gtodd hounds 13:29
as in "release the ..."
pmichaud ...but everyone knows there aren't any Perl 6 releases. :-P
gtodd haha
see ? it would be an insider perlish type joke :-)
masak moritz: oh, I agree. meta stuff is important too. 13:30
pmichaud maybe it would be an outsider perlish type joke too, albeit one with a different punch line. :-P
masak moritz: I just thought it was about text on the web page.
gtodd :-) 13:31
pmichaud I'm afk for a bit. 13:34
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spider-mario r: (our $dogfood).pick 13:36
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: ( no output )
gtodd moritz: so I'm trying to get this to work again: github.com/moritz/svg-plot/blob/ma...rogress.pl 13:37
using Text::CSV (... can't find Text::CSV::Simple ?) 13:38
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gtodd at first the masak part of it worked fine (Text::CSV) but I couldn't get the moritz part (SVG::Plot) to plot the results ... now I can get blank SVG output :-) 13:43
moritz gtodd: it's probably related to lists being flattened where they shouldn't, or vice versa 13:44
gtodd: but I'm currently at $work, and can't debug it for you :(
gtodd np :-)
moritz gtodd: if you can't figure out, feel free to open a ticket in svg-plot repo
gtodd ok 13:45
daxim today's out of context quote: "So I just have to convert perl5 to parrot. Easy." 13:46
yoleaux 19 Apr 2013 18:54Z <japhb_> daxim: re: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-04-19#i_6723489 , it's strange that when you mouse over a small glyph image, it zooms without improving resolution (I end up looking at a blur of large pixels). Otherwise, very nice indeed.
daxim japhb, that's bothering me too, the glyphs could be vector pictures caniuse.com/#search=svg 13:47
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gtodd wonders why p6doc seems to have massively sped up 13:50
moritz 🎶 it's a kind of magic ♫ 13:51
gtodd ♫ never believe it's not so ♫
masak ugh, doing LaTeX (with lots of {}) and interpolating strings isn't a good combination in Perl 6. :/
spider-mario why not write reStructuredText? 13:53
cognominal masak: is there a way to globally change the defaults for string interpolations? 13:54
spider-mario I’ve been using it to take notes at school, recently 13:55
it supports math and code and can output HTML, which is quite convenient 13:56
census masak ++
spider-mario and I have a set of Tupfiles that take care of compiling them
I love tup.
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kresike since p6eval has been renamed to camelia, I think the perl6.org/community/irc page should be updated to reflect the change 13:58
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gtodd moritz: OK I will open an issue soonish and try to summarize changes I attempted and what went wrong. For the moment in my hackishly converted script I'm boggling about the success and then error I get! e.g. around: @specskip.push: $csv.field('spec') - [+] @pass[*-1], @fail[*-1], @todo[*-1], @skip[*-1]; ...... it seemed to work but recently started complaining " Cannot use negative index -1 on Array " 14:01
masak aah. eating my own dogfood, writing small applications in Perl 6. I just found (and reported) a heredoc bug because I found it thanks to a program I was writing. 14:02
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gtodd moritz: obviously not too important, but your svg-plot/blob/master/examples/parse-spectest-progress.pl is almost a form of dogfood so would be nice to eat it :) 14:02
Woodi hallo, hallo :) 14:03
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Woodi I see full spring is in effect, everyone have strenght for arguing :) 14:05
pmichaud perl6: say 'hello'
camelia rakudo 0d1d11, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«hello␤»
Woodi btw. do wh have Australia division of v6 ?
pmichaud camelia: help 14:06
camelia pmichaud: Usage: <(nqp-jvm|star|pugs|nqp|std|niecza|rakudo|b|nom|npr|n|r|perl6|prn|rn|p|rnp|nrp|pnr|rpn|p6|nr)(?^::\s) $perl6_program>
gtodd spider-mario: is tup like scons?
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 5bde8d3 | pmichaud++ | source/community/irc.html:
Change p6eval -> camelia, update addressing modes. kresike++ for noticing.
 14:09
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dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 7d3a5fb | pmichaud++ | source/community/irc.html:
Tense fixes.
 14:11
masak so tense!
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gtodd spider-mario: one day there will be perl6 based build system that becomes such a killer app that $EVERYONE will have to install perl6 to use it :) 14:12
nwc10 dogfood++ 14:13
gtodd :)
nwc10 although, when it comes to real dogs, (what humans consider to be dogfood)++
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masak :) 14:14
nwc10 ie "dumpster diving in the kitchen bin is not dogfood"
gtodd haha 14:15
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gtodd a perl6 based build system would span everything from better version of make to continuous integration, testing, auto-dogfood preparation ... would need a fancy name like "Hudson" 14:16
moritz r: say "\n\n\nabc\n".indent(*) 14:17
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«␤␤␤abc␤␤»
moritz r: say "\n\n\n abc\n".indent(*)
camelia rakudo 0d1d11: OUTPUT«␤␤␤abc␤␤»
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PerlJam would prefer to eat bacon personally. 14:18
spider-mario gtodd : more like make but better, I’d say 14:19
and only aimed at building
not installing
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masak PerlJam: but better than eating bacon vicariously. 14:23
isBEKaml good evening, #perl6! 14:27
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spider-mario tup tracks which files are hand-written and which files are automatically generated (and by which rule) 14:28
isBEKaml masak: I got the same word/though as diakopter when I saw #masakism. :P 14:29
*thought
spider-mario dependencies on generated files must be explicitly stated, and tup watches the commands it runs to infer dependencies on hand-written files
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spider-mario it also checks that commands do not create more files than declared in the Tupfile 14:30
masak (Useless use of "," in expression)++
spider-mario thus, a correct Tupfile is supposedly parallel-safe
masak I swear, it's almost as if Perl 6 gets better and more user-friendly over time.
or Rakudo, to be exact.
spider-mario and I love that it can watch a directory and update everything when something changes. :) 14:31
or remove obsolete targets when their rules are removed. \o/
masak isBEKaml: I'd be lying if I said that was completely unintentional. :)
isBEKaml: but I thought long and hard about it, and I believe I can name it that without actually causing any offense. 14:32
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masak we'll see. 14:32
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isBEKaml masak: oh, wait.. :P (now, why would I sign up for a group that enjoys things that are ${m,w}ildly pejorative.;) 14:32
PerlJam It's weird when I'm reviewing some code at work and notice a couple of useless commas, then see <masak> (Useless use of "," in expression)++ on IRC 14:33
isBEKaml "Useless use of void in IRC context" 14:34
masak: from what I observed in perl-land, it's pretty hard to offend anyone with some mild play of words. Tells much about perl community, really. :) 14:35
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PerlJam isBEKaml: I'm offended by that characterisation! 14:36
;-)
masak isBEKaml: nevertheless, I don't want to be recklessly causing offense just to be punny.
which is why I didn't name the course, say, "I'd fork that dongle" 14:37
isBEKaml PerlJam: you're... uh, an outlier. :D
masak PerlJam: I'm sorry *you feel offended*. :P
PerlJam masak++ :-)
isBEKaml: being an outlier is better than being average 50% of the time ;) 14:38
masak .oO( being a scarecrow is being out standing in one's field ) 14:39
isBEKaml masak: that was stupid drama over some private conversation - I can't help but think that perl folks would have reacted differently to this, given the same set of circumstances.
moritz isBEKaml: it's not "$language folks" as much as one particular person that attended the conference
isBEKaml: and that one outlier can happen in the Perl community as well 14:40
isBEKaml moritz: I know - that one person commanded so much following that people were blindly taken in. :(
masak isBEKaml: the part of that drama that overshadowed everything else -- or should have -- is the thing that happened last: the violence/death threats to the feminist who posted the picture.
isBEKaml: not only does that bit prove without a doubt that we collectively have a problem -- it's much worse than all of the other petty things in that chain of events, combined. 14:41
FROGGS is totally free of problems O.o
cxreg is rakudo meant to be "make -j"-safe?
it totally broke
isBEKaml masak: I don't want to label people as feminist or otherwise - but people were so much brash and violent without pausing to think about aftereffects of their actions. :(
FROGGS cxreg: make -j4 is working stable for my box, but dont use multiple jobs for make install 14:42
isBEKaml cxreg: I don't think so - though I use make -j2 occasionally (building the setting is a blocking operation)
moritz masak: I actually didn't even know about those threats, because I started actively ignoring everything related to that incident
cxreg i got a "load_bytecode" couldn't find file 'Perl6/Ops.pbc'
with -j 6 14:43
isBEKaml masak: I hit mute on that thread after a couple of days, actually.
FROGGS cxreg: can you no-paste the whole thing? including the commands you invoked before
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isBEKaml moritz: outliers are everywhere - their distribution is just non uniform. :) 14:45
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spider-mario cxreg : I got that one as well 14:48
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masak moritz: I learned about it through Martin Fowler. martinfowler.com/snips/201304150952.html 14:49
FROGGS cxreg + spider-mario: but you are using latest nqp master and rakudo nom? 14:50
spider-mario yes
FROGGS (will test it in a minute too)
spider-mario well, I was at the time it happened 14:51
but that was yesterday
or maybe even saturday
FROGGS spider-mario: I am thinking that this might be faulty: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e9...e96c040945
spider-mario This is nqp version 2013.04-54-gbfb3669 built on parrot 5.3.0 revision RELEASE_5_3_0-21-g438b1c4
This is perl6 version 2013.04-6-ge9e1b5d built on parrot 5.3.0 revision RELEASE_5_3_0-21-g438b1c4
PerlJam masak: as long as no perl conference suffers such idiocy, we're doing good :)
cxreg i have rakudo 0d1d1194a4 14:52
spider-mario FROGGS : -j2 broke nqp as well, actually
is that supposed to happen?
FROGGS no
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FROGGS but this can be due to jnthn's sourc file renaming... 14:52
this will work again pretty soon
masak PerlJam: not sure what you mean. YAPC::NA has a Code of Conduct. the Perl community is not immune to either sexism idiocy or overreaction idiocy or threat idiocy. 14:53
PerlJam: I personally believe we're *better* at handling all of those... but we're not immune. 14:54
moritz and we also have quite a bit of friction in the Perl community
PerlJam sure. This is just one area where I hope most Perl people are close to the "average"
Perl doesn't need any more bad press. 14:55
cxreg so with nqp-jvm-prep being merged, is the jvm build going to be part of an upcoming R* release?
masak PerlJam: from what I can tell, incidents definitely happen. but organizers of Perl confs are expert *defusers*, handling things smoothly behind the scenes and out of the blogosphere. 14:56
moritz fwiw a rakudo build with -j4 worked for me
cxreg: the upcoming R* release will contain rakudo 2013.04, which doesn't have that support
cxreg: and afaict the support only stretches to building with an NQP that can also build on the JVM
cxreg: but I don't think rakudo can build on an NQP that was actually with the JVM, and not parrot 14:57
nwc10 cxreg: "yes", but that isn't the answer to the question that you thought you asked :-)
cxreg fair enough
isBEKaml moritz: OOC, why can't we see rakudo on nqp-jvm? Does it have any parrot-y bits ?
cxreg i didnt mean _the_ upcoming R*, just one of the next ... 6 or so 14:58
nwc10 aha, then it is the answer to the question you meant :-)
isBEKaml moritz: I thought they were restricted to nqp?
moritz isBEKaml: there are still parrot-y bits in rakudo; the abstraction that nqp offered wasn't perfect
cxreg blasphemy!
isBEKaml moritz: Ah, I see.
cxreg a port is a great way to see where those parts lie 14:59
(also, git grep ;)
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moritz and then the second port will catch the rest :-) 14:59
PerlJam
.oO( Is it weird that I read "defusers" as "def-users"? Was that an auto-pun of sorts? )
isBEKaml PerlJam: now you're just listlessly lispy. :) 15:01
cxreg FROGGS: gist.github.com/cxreg/5435752 15:03
doesn't include the "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --gen-nqp" but .. that's huge
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cxreg it looks like "5" could be the magic number since it has 4 remaining jobs 15:04
FROGGS okay...
cxreg one of which produces the missing file
kresike bye folks 15:06
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FROGGS cxreg: I see that metamodel doesn't depend on the Ops... I try first to reproduce that error, in order to supply proper patches 15:07
moritz cxreg: I'll re-try with -j5 15:12
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FROGGS okay, looks like rakudo is working again locally.. 15:12
spider-mario: I can't get nqp to break :/ 15:15
spider-mario hm 15:16
I’ll try again
moritz FROGGS: I agree, $(PERL6_M_PBC): should depend on $(PERL6_OPS_PBC) 15:17
FROGGS moritz: right 15:18
spider-mario: and I think I see now what's wrong with nqp
isBEKaml heh - I can't get parrot to build on cygwin. I'm getting these weird memory errors :(
I'll gist it in a bit.
spider-mario hm, actually, I don’t use -j2, I use -j -l2 15:19
(“spawn jobs until system load ≥ 2”)
(or more like “unless”)
FROGGS gist.github.com/FROGGS/8193740486c6c93742bf 15:20
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FROGGS at the top is the last bit of compiling+installing nqp, after that comes rakudo 15:20
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dalek kudo/nom: ef73eb9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/Makefile.in:
Metamodel depends on Perl6::Ops
 15:23
FROGGS spider-mario + cxreg + moritz: even my nqp-dependency error is gone now
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isBEKaml does anyone recognise this? gist.github.com/anonymous/5435926 15:28
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gfldex isBEKaml: yes, it's the wonky fork implementation of cygwin. Reboot and try to build rakudo before you do anything else. Make sure you dont got any cygwin services running (like sshd). 15:38
isBEKaml: rebaseall can help too, but does not have to
isBEKaml gfldex: reboot as in hard reboot or just cygwin processes? 15:40
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gfldex hard reboot, sadly 15:40
isBEKaml :/ 15:41
okay, I'll try again after sometime.
gfldex isBEKaml: make sure you rm the old dlls before you reboot 15:42
isBEKaml gfldex: old dlls? 15:43
gfldex under rakudo/ and parrot/
isBEKaml gfldex: Oh, I usually do git clean -xdf. That should wipe everything not under git revision. 15:44
gfldex that should do
windows is not very good at removing dlls from memory, hence the need for reboots
isBEKaml here's another bit - I didn't launch any parrot/p6 process. git pull, perl Configure, make -j #BOOM 15:46
so I don't see how windows cached those dlls in memory. 15:47
unless that was done in-build.
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PerlJam www.ted.com/talks/john_mcwhorter_tx...ge_jk.html 15:51
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gfldex srsly? 15:52
daxim omgwtf 16:00
sjn lol.
cognominal Perl 6 is not a spoken language but someone will invent a Perl 6 SMS slang, for sure 16:01
masak PerlJam: I think about capitalization and punctuation when texting. 16:03
PerlJam I find it difficult to type "u" and "4" and "r" for "you", "for", and "are" respectively when texting. 16:04
timotimo cognominal: inspired by "like, python"? 16:05
masak PerlJam: yeah, I don't do that, or their Swedish equivalents.
PerlJam: this TED talk gave me a bit more sympathy for the newbies who occasionally come in here and sprinkle their conversations with "lol" at the beginning and end of their utterances. 16:06
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cognominal masak, lol, ur so rite 16:06
PerlJam sympathy or empathy?
What I discovered is that I'm doing extra work when reading lol-speak on IRC. 16:08
I tend to ignore the markers as "garbage" and then figure out the meaning from context. If I just recognized the "lols" as contextual cues I'd have less figuring-out to do. 16:10
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masak hm, empathy, I guess. 16:12
PerlJam: yes, exactly. I'd also seen them as annoying, or a sign of immaturity.
but I guess they mean a bit more lol 16:13
PerlJam oddly, I never conntected lol-speak with maturity (or lack thereof)
(but I do find it annoying sometimes :) 16:14
Now, like spanish, I have another "language" that I can kinda understand, but have difficultly speaking.
masak :) 16:17
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timotimo that ted talk PerlJam linked was very enjoyable i find. 16:30
masak IRC and texting have that in common that they are both speech-as-text. 16:32
whereas literature and other printed stuff tends to be writing-as-text.
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gtodd in a line like @specskip.push: @csv.list.[$i][0]<<spec>> - [+] @pass[*-1], @fail[*-1], @todo[*-1], @skip[*-1]; 16:43
doesn't "@pass[*-1]" just return the last element of a list/array ?
I could've sworn it worked previously but now: Cannot use negative index -1 on Array 16:45
... @array[*-1] # beware of the "whatever"-star 16:47
colomon nr: my @a; say @a[*-1]
camelia niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
..rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«Cannot use negative index -1 on Array␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10829␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7805␤ in block at /tmp/qHBjj2vTHV:1␤␤»
colomon nr: my @a = 1; say @a[*-1]
camelia rakudo ef73eb, niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«1␤»
colomon just saying...
timotimo oh, interesting
it will just put 0 there and calculate -1 16:48
PerlJam gtodd: maybe use @array[@array.end] ?
gtodd yeah trying that instead 16:49
PerlJam nr: my @a; say @a[@a.end]; # just checking :-) 16:50
camelia niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
..rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«Cannot use negative index -1 on Array␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:10829␤ in method gist at src/gen/CORE.setting:893␤ in sub say at src/gen/CORE.setting:7805␤ in block at /tmp/ge_FsjaYV4:1␤␤»
PerlJam bother. :(
gtodd it must've worked previously due to some other failure on my part :-)
r: my @a = 1, 2, 3, 4 ; say @a[@a.end] 16:51
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«4␤»
gtodd r: my @a = "1, 2, 3, 4 "; say @a[@a.end]
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«1, 2, 3, 4 ␤»
gtodd hmm
r: my @a = '1, 2, 3, 4' ; say @a[@a.end]
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«1, 2, 3, 4␤»
gtodd r: my @a = q/1, 2, 3, 4/ ; say @a[@a.end]
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«1, 2, 3, 4␤»
gtodd r: my @a = (1, 2, 3, 4) ; say @a[@a.end] 16:52
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«4␤»
PerlJam gtodd: where you expecting somethign different ther?
*there
gtodd oops was cutting and pasting like I was in the REPL :-P
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gtodd sorry folks 16:52
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gtodd no but I'm thinking the array is not acting like an array because of something else going on ... anyway sorry for noise ;-) 16:53
still getting used to perl6 equivalents of dumper Dump:: etc
so I just madly paste crap into a running repl :) 16:54
PerlJam gtodd: maybe you want something like [+] map { @($_) > 0 ?? .[.end] !! Nil }, @pass, @fail, @todo 17:00
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timotimo PerlJam: is (@($_) > 0) not the same as ?$_? 17:04
timotimo tries to verify 17:05
PerlJam I lean towards explicitness sometimes.
timotimo seems so.
pmichaud r: my @a; say @a[*-1] // Nil; 17:06
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
PerlJam oh yeah, I forgot about // 17:07
[Coke] r: /o/ ~~ "wave your hands in the air" 17:08
camelia rakudo ef73eb: ( no output )
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PerlJam (I'd still use map rather than repeating // Nil though) 17:11
pmichaud +@pass && [+] @pass[*-1], @fail[*-1], @todo[*-1], @skip[*-1] 17:14
unless the arrays can be of different sizes, in which case each needs checking I suppose.
PerlJam aye. I dunno. 17:17
(But if they're all the same size and empty, how did *that* situation arise) 17:18
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masak I wonder if @array.end shouldn't return Failure instead of -1 when @array is empty? 17:43
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masak I mean, it's the only case where asking for the last element doesn't make sense. 17:47
timotimo masak: when indexing with a failure, a new failure is created?
masak no, when using a failure in any way, it closes the trap and turns into an exception.
so the end result would be the same, but with possibly a better error message. 17:48
the "using -1 as an index" one feels like a bit of a red herring.
and I'm thinking "dude, *you* brought up -1!"
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PerlJam masak: I'm inclined to agree, but only if it actually *does* give a better error message :) 17:51
cognominal y'a encore des gens qui fréquentent perlmonks ici? 17:57
à part BooK?
masak cognominal: je fréquent perlmonks. :)
cognominal: just not that... frequently. :P 17:58
cognominal oops
wrong channel again
masak .oO( mauvaise fenêtre )
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PerlJam btw, am I the only one who is bothered by .end? It gives you an index of the last element in the array when most times, you actually want the last item. 17:59
you can still infer an index from .elems since arrays are all zero-based. 18:00
masak PerlJam: aye.
moritz almost never uses .end, becuase when he wants the indexes, it's usually as @array.keys 18:01
masak PerlJam: (as in "yes, I'm bothered")
PerlJam: I *implemented* .end, before I know properly what it did. and I implemented it as "gimme the last element".
PerlJam: had to go back and re-do it. :)
PerlJam: I think .end is there simply because we don't have $#array any more, and we "needed" some syntax to cover up for it. 18:02
PerlJam It's also weird that it's the only method that talks about a specific index. Why not also .mid so that we can better binarily search too? 18:03
(okay, that's just crazy, but so is .end :)
masak and .beg so we can abstrac away from 0 :P
abstract* 18:04
yes, I could easily axe .end and I think some code would break, but overall not many would care.
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pmichaud .mid is */2 :-P 18:21
PerlJam then .beg should clearly be *-*
timotimo more like $^a - $^a 18:22
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timotimo but that kind of simplifies to **0 immediately 18:23
or is there actually a two-argument form of the indexing fucntion?
colomon hopes not
masak no. 18:24
S09 says you can index (specially declared) arrays as @array{-7} etc.
having a different starting index than 0.
timotimo ah
PerlJam But we don't yet live in a world of shaped arrays. 18:25
masak but I don't think that would ever reflect on the *actual* indexes, and thus not on .end either.
pmichaud yes, the indexing function can have multiple arguments.
at least as implemented in rakudo.
masak oh, right. with shaped arrays, it can.
pmichaud r: my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[*-*];
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«a␤»
masak oh, we're talking about arguments at different levels :) 18:26
pmichaud multi method postcircumfix:<[ ]>(\SELF: Callable $block) is rw {
SELF[$block(|(SELF.elems xx $block.count))]
}
PerlJam masak: too bad you're not *arguing* about arguments at different levels. ;) 18:27
timotimo ah, ok, one per dimension?
oh, huh
it just gives the same argument every time
[Coke] r: my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[*-*-*+*+**0] 18:28
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤HyperWhatever (**) not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/IrxsdrVLVr:1␤------> my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[*-*-*+*+**⏏0]␤»
timotimo i bet a fast path for $block.count == 1 would make this 1000 times faster
[Coke] r: my @a = <a b c d>; say @a[*-*-*+*+0]
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«a␤»
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masak PerlJam: :P 18:41
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jnthn Good evening, #perl6 18:49
dalek rl6-roast-data: faf3c2e | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
colomon o/
masak jnthn! \o/ 18:54
jnthn masak! \o/ 18:55
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nwc10 good pm, jnthn 19:12
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sorear yo. 19:20
jnthn Gee, teaching all day then walking 6km leaves one a little tired :) 19:21
masak oh, you walked into town and back? 19:24
census 6km!
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census jnthn: what were you teaching, if i may ask? :) 19:24
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masak .oO( long-distance walking ) 19:25
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jnthn 6km isn't long distance :P 19:25
census: The .Net MVC framework this time. 19:26
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census oh wow. no 6km isn't *long* if you are running, driving, or even bikin! 19:31
sounds like a valuable class!
jnthn Well, I actually did 3km, ate dinner, then 3km back :)
I don't mind in the slightest 'cus the walk is mostly by the sea. :)
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masak grew up near there 19:32
kinda pretty. 19:33
well, the sea is. the petrochemical industry is so-so :P
jnthn Yeah, it seems nice overall 19:34
I heard the story about the bridge that fell down 30 years ago too.
They told me as we were driving over it to go for lunch :P
masak that was the year before I was born. so, like, 32 years ago. 19:35
jnthn Yeah, I think they qualified it with "about" :) 19:36
masak en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tj%C3%B6rn_Bridge
jnthn Anyway, apparently driving huge boats into bridges is, like, a bad idea.
masak bloody... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bulk_St...lipper.jpg
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jnthn Oops. 19:37
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masak built here in Malmö. 19:38
FROGGS "Kollisionen fick ödesdigra[...]" 19:40
jnthn FROGGS: fick doesn't mean the same in Swedish :P 19:41
FROGGS there was a "huh?!"-moment when looking at all these nice words :o)
masak "The collision had disastrous[...]"
oh, but you're German. yes, that would be "huh?!"-producing :)
jnthn I remember once of my first times in Sweden I saw a product called "ficklampa" and I was like...the Swedes have special lights for *what*?! 19:42
masak we probably do, but that's beside the point.
jnthn Dude... :P
FROGGS you both know that swedish sounds (and looks) kinda funny somehow? just cant explain why :/
masak aaaaanyway
FROGGS hehe
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FROGGS do you know if the ikea productnames in germany are just made up for germans, or are these serious names? 19:43
nwc10 serious or not, I thought that they used the same names everywhere 19:44
FROGGS like a chair is called bekväm
BenGoldberg .tell jnthn Don't forget to change the README for rakudo, so people know that the jvm is now supported :)
yoleaux BenGoldberg: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
FROGGS nwc10: well, that would explain it too
ohh, "Stille Post" 19:45
jnthn BenGoldberg: I will then Rakudo actually supports JVM ;)
yoleaux 19:44Z <BenGoldberg> jnthn: Don't forget to change the README for rakudo, so people know that the jvm is now supported :)
BenGoldberg :)
jnthn BenGoldberg: It's NQP that supports it and I noted so in its REAMDE yesterday :)
nwc10 jnthn: are there any identified low hanging fruit yet?
jnthn nwc10: Fixing the NQP README to say how to build the JVM version :P
Rather than that it just exists. :)
masak FROGGS: "bekväm" is Swedish. it means "comfortable". 19:46
jnthn Others are adding the missing bigint ops and adding the missing IO ops :)
masak FROGGS: and that's a name I'd expect to see in IKEA in Sweden, too.
FROGGS masak: ya, same in german
masak oh! 19:47
jnthn Bah, what a boring word for comfortable :)
masak FROGGS: you probably borrowed the word from us :P
FROGGS bequem in german
masak: NO WAY!
:o)
masak ...and spelled it weirdly. :P
FROGGS hehe
no, you dont get it, it is the other way around *g*
masak O RLY? 19:48
jnthn My favorite word for comfortable so far is "pohodlný" :)
FROGGS (pssst, I no you were joking)
jnthn: hmmm, my guess was it meant something else 19:49
more like beeing bamboozled
"... by all these buttons and nobs"
masak .oO( buttons and noobs )
FROGGS .oO( ... my finger is on that n00b? ) 19:50
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[Coke] Tries to cram some more regex fun into this .java file. 19:56
FROGGS jnthn: if I have two blocks using the same slang like: "{ use v5 }; { use v5 }", should reblessing the LANG be enough to make it work? currently it does not, and I don't know if I need to do more then reblessing or not 19:57
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jnthn You rebless things inside the %*LANG, I guess? 19:58
FROGGS %*LANG<MAIN>, yes 19:59
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FROGGS the second block is executed as Perl6, same goes for perl5 modules I 'use' from v5 blocks 20:00
for the 'use'-case I already pass around the :from<perl5> adverb, which currently just does the same as doing 'use Perl5' at the beginning of the included script 20:01
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jnthn Hmm 20:03
FROGGS maybe a slang has to provide a callback which has to be called right before every new slang block... I'm just curious what is missing to make a second slang block work, and what to put in an potentional callback 20:04
pmichaud yes, I've noticed a few places where people are taking the NQP-jvm announcement to mean that Rakudo now runs on the JVM. :-/ 20:06
FROGGS pmichaud: that is just because they are so exited...
jnthn pmichaud: Which announcement? :-/
pmichaud perlweekly.com/latest.html for one. 20:07
Another huge step with Jonathan Worthington. NQP (Not Quite Perl) is basically the core that Rakudo, the Perl 6 compiler is built on. (Minus a few areas where I think it still depends directly on Parrot.) Having NQP on the JVM means a large part of Rakudo can already work on the JVM.
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jnthn Well. I can't do much about people not reading what I write properly when they summarize it :/ 20:08
pmichaud we also had someone earlier asking for instructions for building Rakudo for the jvm.
masak :(
[Coke] just need to make jnthn work faster! ;) 20:09
FROGGS hehe
pmichaud well, and others :)
jnthn I know! I won't write blog posts for people to mis-summarize! :P
[Coke] GAH!
wrong takeaway!
jnthn ;)
flussence
.oO( use CORE:from<next tuesday> )
pmichaud if we don't expect the May release to run on jvm, perhaps we should announce a "safe" date when it will. 20:10
FROGGS well, publicity is actually a good thing, now someone just has to make a good post... (I'm not a good writer though)
[Coke] I tried to build
(nevermind)
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pmichaud as a strawman example, we could say we expect rakudo on the jvm in the 2013.08 release. If parts start appearing before then, no problem. :) 20:11
anyway, it's just an idea.
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[Coke] Eh. Given the very low bus number at this point, I'd be hesitant to promise anything. 20:12
pmichaud that's reasonable, too.
I'm just thinking it's better to say when to expect it rather than have people constantly saying "it'll be here in the next release" or asking the question. 20:13
but I'm fine with not saying anything, too.
[Coke] I think a reasonable fallback is we tell them the same thing they ask about when "rakudo will be done" 20:14
nwc10 can you say something like "we don't expect it to be ready for at least the next 3 monthly releases"
or maybe "2"
and not change "2" to "1" until it's more likely to be "0"
[Coke] Sure, that seems reasonable.
pmichaud we could say that, but I know that people will translate that to be "Rakudo will be released in July"
[Coke] nwc10++
pmichaud sorry, Rakudo-jvm
[Coke] True.
but clearly, people can't read. What are we optimizing for? 20:15
spider-mario that would be nice, though
pmichaud [Coke]: the ones that can.
spider-mario to have Rakujo released in a month beginning with J
nwc10 pmichaud: yes, but it's less dangerous than explicitly picking a "safe" month
s/3/several/
pmichaud sure, there are a lot of folks that can't read. but I'm not sure we want to combate disinformation with silence.
*combat 20:16
nwc10 to avoid being pinned down on the number
jnthn It's probably going to be more of a staged thing
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jnthn "It can do hello world!" "It can pass a bunch of spectests!" "It passes most spectests" "You can install a bunch of modules and use them on it" 20:16
diakopter "It poops diamonds" 20:17
jnthn diakopter: The spec defers that to post-6.0.0, sorry :P
pmichaud "It causes unicorns to appear in your Dec 25 stockings"
spider-mario “it runs faster than on Parrot”
pmichaud spider-mario: that one I won't claim until we have a bunch of modules running on rakudo-jvm
spider-mario and until it does run faster, I guess. :p 20:18
pmichaud until then, speed comparisons are speculative at best, and probably best avoided.
diakopter s/faster than/compared to/
spider-mario well, it does need to run in the first place in order to run faster.
jnthn It's also worth noting that my focus has been on "make it run" over "optimize everything I'm putting in loads as I do it" 20:21
lichtkind jnthn: na zdravi 20:23
jnthn lichtkind: dobry vecer...ako sa mas? 20:24
lichtkind skvele :)
jnthn :) 20:25
lichtkind jnthn: just wrote the perl 6 update so less annoing questions in the next year :)
jnthn :) 20:26
Nice
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dalek osystem: 4d1525c | (David Warring)++ | META.list:
Added CSS-Language; moved CSS-Grammar
 20:36
FROGGS jnthn: about "make it run": de.webfail.com/2d891ddaad4 20:40
:P
>.<
jnthn :P 20:43
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japhb_ .tell timotimo re: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-04-22#i_6733138 you might be able to co-opt some of the logic perl6-bench uses to build multiple versions of each compiler. It puts special effort into keeping only *one* network-updated clone of each repo (rakudo, nqp, parrot, etc.), and doing carefully-handled local clones to make it really fast to create and build a new, independent rakudo that can coexist with the others. 20:45
yoleaux japhb_: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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masak de.webfail.com/2d891ddaad4 counts as an autopun, I think. 20:58
it just has a negative determinant, which sometimes happens. 20:59
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FROGGS ohh, I'd buy it anyway 20:59
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[Coke] what is the phrase for teaching a simplified/old version of something first as a foundation before teaching the more correct but complicated version? 21:31
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jnthn lying? pedagogical falicitation? :) 21:32
21:33 drbean left
masak [Coke]: lies-to-children. 21:33
that's Terry Pratchett's name for it, at least. 21:34
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie-to-children
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jnthn sleep & 21:44
FROGGS gnight
cognominal [Coke] white lie? 21:45
hum, apparently white lies are not about pedagogy but about tact 21:46
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census good night! 21:47
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census cognominal: according to .. ? 21:47
lue [Coke]: "It's magic." / "Which we will get to in later courses"
cognominal census : www.thefreedictionary.com/White+lies 21:48
timotimo japhb_: the benchmark framework seems like a good fit. i'll investigate that (some time) 21:49
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FROGGS timotimo: you should have said: "[...](some time, but not long)" :o) 21:50
timotimo long is relative 21:51
i will probably do it before i die. or not at all. either of those.
FROGGS hehe, it would just fit to what benchmarks are about 21:52
nvm :o)
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[Coke] masak: danke. 22:04
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masak 'night, #perl6 22:37
japhb_ o/
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FROGGS gnight all 22:40
census gnight FROGGS! 22:42
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cognominal rn: class A { has $a }; my $a= A.new; $a.a("toto"); say $a.a 23:04
camelia rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«No such method 'a' for invocant of type 'A'␤ in block at /tmp/WSB4yqKm62:1␤␤» 23:05
..niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method a in type A␤ at /tmp/7fAJoqoD_L line 1 (mainline @ 7) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4299 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4300 (module-CORE @ 583) ␤ at /home/p6eval…
cognominal rn: class A { has $a }; my $a= A.new; $a.a ="toto"; say $a.a
camelia niecza v24-37-gf9c8fc2: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method a in type A␤ at /tmp/xHS2WM7FIn line 1 (mainline @ 7) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4299 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4300 (module-CORE @ 583) ␤ at /home/p6eval…
..rakudo ef73eb: OUTPUT«No such method 'a' for invocant of type 'A'␤ in block at /tmp/TtexiT5nKn:1␤␤»
cognominal ho, I forgot the dot 23:06
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dalek blets: a000395 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/ (2 files):
added FALLBACK method to A
 23:38
blets: b41f499 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-a-index.txt:
conjugate -> conj
 23:46
blets: 415319d | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-b-grouped.txt:
add p5 equiv pf compiler hint var
23:47 grondilu joined
grondilu Hello. An interesting article about an open cheap supercomputer small architecture project: phys.org/news/2013-04-adapteva-para...ummer.html 23:47
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grondilu considering perl6 is supposed to have lots of features for parallel processing, I thought it might be relevant here. 23:49
lichtkind grondilu: i wish that would be true :) 23:56
yes they are some
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