»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 3 May 2013.
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[Coke] writes a code formatting checker in coldfusion, and looks forward to the day when he can do this sort of stuff with a perl6 grammar running on the jvm in eclipse. 00:56
timotimo oh my, i didn't even think about interop with IDEs and such for when rakudo is on the jvm 00:58
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[Coke] Dude, I'm going to write eclipse plugins in perl6 so I can write coldfusion. 01:09
(though Ideally I will start writing my webapps in perl6)
timotimo i think that's quite a ways off, though :(
diakopter "The document is a draft." 01:10
yoleaux 00:53Z <dpk> diakopter: ok, after some consideration, i've decided that, while the feature may well be useful, it doesn't fit well with yoleaux's general purpose and this particular task is best left to another bot, imo. thanks for the suggestion though!
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timotimo what feature was that? 01:11
diakopter "adrift"?
no clue
"ajar"?
timotimo a message from years ago?
diakopter "The document is ajar"
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dpk heh, "no clue" 01:15
diakopter, this one github.com/dpk/yoleaux/issues/8 01:16
timotimo mhm 01:19
diakopter typical pie-in-the-sky pipedreaming 01:20
er, pipe-in-the-sky piedreaming 01:21
timotimo rn: my KeyBag $a .= new; $a<Foo> = True; $a<Bar> = True; say $a<Foo>:exists; say $a<Barf>:exists;
camelia rakudo 9c5650, niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
timotimo oh, yikes. 01:22
diakopter ? 01:23
timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4), $foo] }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl; 01:24
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2, 3, 4, KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash)])␤Nil␤»
..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«[[1, 2, 3, 4, KeyBag.new({"A" => Bool::True}.hash)]].list␤Any␤»
timotimo that didn't work the way i intended it to :)
rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4); $foo] }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new([KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash)])␤Nil␤»
..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«[[KeyBag.new({"A" => Bool::True}.hash)]].list␤Any␤»
timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4); $foo].lol }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl; 01:25
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new(KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash))␤Nil␤»
..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Array␤ at /tmp/6ZW9z8r0qj line 1 (ret-mult @ 7) ␤ at /tmp/6ZW9z8r0qj line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return [(1, 2, 3, 4), $foo].lol }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new(1, 2, 3, 4, KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash))␤Nil␤»
..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Array␤ at /tmp/HCD4eOuQT8 line 1 (ret-mult @ 7) ␤ at /tmp/HCD4eOuQT8 line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.settin…
timotimo rn: sub ret-mult() { my KeyBag $foo .= new; $foo<A> = True; return ((1, 2, 3, 4), $foo).lol }; my (@p, $f) = ret-mult(); say @p.perl; say $f.perl;
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array.new($(1, 2, 3, 4), KeyBag.new(("A" => Bool::True).hash))␤Nil␤»
..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Parcel␤ at /tmp/E_GHtaRweH line 1 (ret-mult @ 7) ␤ at /tmp/E_GHtaRweH line 1 (mainline @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setti…
timotimo how do i multiple return?
diakopter rw params? 01:26
<-- very clueless today
timotimo nah, i don't like rw params terribly much 01:27
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timotimo std: class A { method &.( $capture ) {...} } 01:32
camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $capture is declared but not used at /tmp/RIS_hNcjc1 line 1:␤------> class A { method &.( ⏏$capture ) {...} }␤ok 00:00 44m␤»
timotimo std: class A { method @.[ **@slice ] {...} }
camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ @slice is declared but not used at /tmp/cSRZz7PdNq line 1:␤------> class A { method @.[ **⏏@slice ] {...} }␤ok 00:00 44m␤»
timotimo wow, that's crazy concise.
or ... weird
dunno.
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timotimo (the secret to properly returning the two things was to use a $ sigil on the left side, fwiw.) 01:45
clever niecza :D - Useless redeclaration of variable $_ (see line 0) 01:47
std: ␤␤␤␤␤␤ my $_ = 5; say $_;
camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless redeclaration of variable $_ (see line 1) at /tmp/BRkCxpUrgQ line 1:␤------> my $_⏏ = 5; say $_;␤ok 00:00 42m␤»
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timotimo so, basically my (@foo, $bar) = some-function(); never makes sense, is that right? 02:02
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gtodd yoleaux: .u ᑲᐦᑲᑭᐤ 02:27
.u ᑲ 02:30
yoleaux U+1472 CANADIAN SYLLABICS KA [Lo] (ᑲ)
gtodd .u ᐦ
yoleaux U+1426 CANADIAN SYLLABICS FINAL DOUBLE SHORT VERTICAL STROKES [Lo] (ᐦ)
timotimo rn: my ($a, $b) = "A", "B"; for ^5 { ($a, $b) = [($a, $b), ($b, $a)].pick; say "$a, $b"; }
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1355 (warn @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 266 (Mu.Str @ 15) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /tmp/9J4Z8DAefK line 1 (mainline @ …
..rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«A, ␤, ␤, ␤, ␤, ␤»
gtodd .u ᑲ ᑭ ᐤ 02:31
yoleaux U+0020 SPACE [Zs] ( )
U+1424 CANADIAN SYLLABICS FINAL RING [Lo] (ᐤ)
U+146D CANADIAN SYLLABICS KI [Lo] (ᑭ)
timotimo rn: my ($a, $b) = "A", "B"; for ^5 { ($a, $b) = (($a, $b), ($b, $a)).lol.pick; say "$a, $b"; }
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Parcel␤ at /tmp/DOi_VcjvIx line 1 (mainline @ 9) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤ at /home…
..rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«maximum recursion depth exceeded␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102411 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46279) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8905)␤called from Sub 'defined' pc 161856 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:70487) (src/gen/CORE.setting:720)␤called from Sub 'infinite' pc 2…
timotimo r: say (1, 2, 3).^methods
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Parcel Capture elems item flat list lol at_pos postcircumfix:<[ ]> STORE FLATTENABLE_LIST FLATTENABLE_HASH fmt of Bool Numeric Str ACCEPTS gist perl DUMP␤»
gtodd oops
msg yoleaux 02:32
timotimo (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).lol.perl.say
r: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).lol.perl.say
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«LoL.new(1, 2, 3, $(1, 2, 3))␤»
timotimo i don't get it.
rn: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).lol.perl.say
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method lol in type Parcel␤ at /tmp/NZfNWFofC1 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤ at /home…
..rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«LoL.new(1, 2, 3, $(1, 2, 3))␤»
timotimo that would be it.
n: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).LoL.perl.say 02:33
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method LoL in type Parcel␤ at /tmp/gK9EE9aHO9 line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤ at /home…
timotimo n: (1, 2, 3, (1, 2, 3)).tree.perl.say
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method tree in type Parcel␤ at /tmp/qcz6z8oejQ line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤ at /hom…
timotimo huh.
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timotimo rosettacode.org/wiki/Brownian_tree#Perl_6 - finally submitted. 03:08
oh, perl 6 has already reached rank 9, behind Go by 7 entries 03:10
Timbus say "time elapsed: ", (now - BEGIN { now }) 03:12
woah
timotimo i thought the same thing when i saw that for the first time :D 03:13
(got it from the advent calendar i believe)
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timotimo i could even have written BEGIN now instead 03:19
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TimToady timotimo++ 03:22
however, we're actually in 7th place, ahead of Ruby 03:23
by 9, and behind D by 7
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TimToady note that the page in question is more than a month out of date 03:25
timotimo neato :)
isn't there a report that gets updated often/automatically?
TimToady if you actually run the Perl 6 entry, you'll get the current standings
yes, there's a link to a more recent page produced by REXX 03:26
timotimo oh, neat :) 03:27
i was looking at that REXX output actually. or did i mislook?
TimToady well, that's two weeks old already
timotimo hm, shelling out to wget :\ 03:28
TimToady feel free to fix :)
timotimo hm, what options are there?
TimToady though I run it under niecza...
timotimo HTTP::Easy perhaps? 03:29
perl6 popularity.p6 59.64s user 0.46s system 83% cpu 1:12.39 total - oh my. 03:30
lue .oO[ now - BEGIN now is one of those neat tricks that make you smile every time :) ] 03:34
TimToady INIT now would make more sense, unless you really want to measure the time between compilation and running 03:41
timotimo not sure which i want. for one, the complete run time is interesting for the problem, for the other, it might be more interesting to measure how long it takes once it's compiled. 03:43
do modules have ENTER and LEAVE, or do only routines have that?
r: ENTER say "foo"; LEAVE say "bar"; { ENTER say "in braces"; LEAVE say "out of braces" }; say "end of mainline"; 03:44
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
timotimo r: ENTER say "foo"; LEAVE say "bar"; { ENTER say "in braces"; LEAVE say "out of braces" }(); say "end of mainline";
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
timotimo oh?
TimToady looks like a bug to me 03:45
lue r: ENTER say "foo"; LEAVE say "bar"; { ENTER say "in braces"; say "something in between"; LEAVE say "out of braces" }; say "end of mainline";
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤»
timotimo r: say "a"; { say "b" }; say "c"; 03:47
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
lue r: ENTER print "in"; LEAVE say "out"; print " and "; 03:49
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«inout␤»
lue r: LEAVE say "out"; print " and "; ENTER say "in"
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«in␤out␤»
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timotimo r: say q{ "foo }" bar }; 03:54
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/3XeruwNTX9:1␤------> say q{ "foo }⏏" bar };␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ …
timotimo thought so. 03:55
anyway, it's way past bedtime for me once again 03:56
good * #perl6
TimToady dream of brownian motion :)
timotimo wobbles towards the bed 03:57
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dalek : b5ea707 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5.nqp:
use Perl5::RegexGrammar/Actions
 09:23
: 74866d9 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/ (2 files):
rename regex grammar/actions, and setup grep/map/sort grammar
v5: 97e0316 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
v5: support map, grep and sort
v5:
v5: Supported is:
v5: map BLOCK LIST, grep BLOCK LIST and sort BLOCK, LIST
v5: sort LIST
v5: but not yet:
v5: map EXPR, LIST, grep EXPR, LIST and sort SUBNAME LIST
GlitchMr thedailywtf.com/Articles/Right_In_F...f_You.aspx 09:27
if $typec != 20&13&5&4 {}
lizmat FROGGS++ 09:32
FROGGS :o) 09:34
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lizmat hmmm… my fix for exists on typed hashes breaks a lot of other things (wizard's apprentice syndrome) 10:07
moritz's proposed fix "multi method exists($?CLASS:D: Mu $key) { nextwith($key.WHICH) }", fails with gist.github.com/lizmat/5603951 10:09
jnthn Should be ::?CLASS:D 10:18
multi method exists(::?CLASS:D: Mu $key) { nextwith($key.WHICH) } or so.
dalek nda: 02765c9 | Dagur++ | bootstrap.pl:
call rm_rf only if directory doesn't exist
nda: 048dc67 | tadzik++ | bootstrap.pl:
Merge pull request #45 from dagurval/patch-1

call rm_rf only if directory doesn't exist
lizmat jnthn: trying that now 10:20
masak good postnoon, #perl6 10:22
masak gradually comes to life
lizmat greats the live part of masak 10:24
*greets
lizmat is not quite alive either 10:25
t/spec/S09-hashes/objecthash.rakudo (Wstat: 0 Tests: 31 Failed: 2) 10:26
Failed tests: 1, 5
TODO passed: 21
seems this fixes one outstanding todo, but breaks something else, investigating 10:27
dalek : eb379b1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
make <=> and cmp work
 10:28
lizmat r: class A {}; my $a=A.new; my %h{Any}; %h{$a}=1; say %h{$a} 10:29
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«1␤»
lizmat this fails now, returns with (Any)
FROGGS tadzik: that commit title is a bit confusing :P
lizmat: maybe it does %h{$a}=1 too early? 10:31
lizmat too early? I think the order is ok
FROGGS your local changes are in the setting or in the ast? setting I suppose
lizmat src/core/Hash.pm 10:32
which winds up in setting, yet
FROGGS lizmat: maybe it assing Any after doing = 1
lizmat *yes
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FROGGS can you paste the diff? 10:32
assigns*
lizmat my %h{Any} is for *creating* the typed hash 10:33
FROGGS hmmm
lizmat this is the diff "+ multi method exists(::?CLASS:D: Mu $key) { nextwith($key.WHICH) }" (in src/core/Hash) 10:36
jnthn lizmat: at_key uses self.exists 10:39
lizmat: However, it also passes $key.WHICH to it
lizmat aha, so that is a double fix
making and checking 10:40
o.O { should have thought of that myself } 10:41
btw: should that be a multi method or just a method? seems to be only one candidate... 10:42
jnthn: alas, no change 10:47
jnthn: the calls to nqp::findmethod should still use $key_which, right? 10:48
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jnthn Thing so 10:50
Hm, it's rather inefficient that we produce key.WHICH multiple times, and worse stringify it multiple times, in all of this.
And the nextwith is kinda icky too
lizmat well, I'll be glad to look at optimizing this when it works :-) 10:51
fwiw, it looks like it is storing it ok: $ mp6 -e 'class A {}; my $a=A.new; my %h{Any}; %h{$a}=1; say %h{$a}; say %h'
(Any)
(A.new() => 1).hash
jnthn It'd be much faster if it was more like multi method exists(::?CLASS:D: Mu \key) { nqp::defined($!keys) ?? nqp::p6bool(nqp::existskey($!keys, key.WHICH)) !! False } 10:52
lizmat trying that now
why the multi? 10:55
there's only one "exists" in that class, isn't there ?
jnthn 'cus the code you gave me and told me didn't work had multi on it :P
lizmat aha, ok: it compiles anyway
jnthn Well, the thing is partly about whether you want folks in subclasses to be able to write multis. 10:56
lizmat well, then we need that in more places, like Hash.new :-)
jnthn So the multi or not decision in a class is actually making an API decision, really.
lizmat and a performance reason, I would guess, as multi's a more expensive? 10:57
*are
jnthn They are, though I think we can expect our compiler/optimization technology to evolve over time in that regard. 10:59
It's already not automatically true for multi subs.
lizmat alas: gist.github.com/lizmat/5604056 11:00
jnthn *sigh*
May need an nqp::unbox_s placed at some point. I forget how ObjAt actually works. 11:01
lizmat + ?? nqp::p6bool(nqp::existskey($!keys, nqp::unbox_s(key.WHICH))) ?? 11:02
jnthn Yeah
lizmat making and testing
so basically the difference between a normal hash and a typed hash, is that the key is really the key.WHICH ? 11:06
jnthn: same failures / same todo passed :-( 11:08
jnthn lizmat: Yes, but are you still calling .exists the same way in .at_key?
lizmat the diff: gist.github.com/lizmat/5604078 11:10
grrr… \key instead of key?
making and testing 11:11
jnthn self.exists(\key) wnats to be self.exists(key)
But I am just wondering a little what EnumMap.at_key calls
bah 11:14
EnumMap.at_key calls nqp::existskey too
uh, sorry
calls .exists
lizmat make: *** [CORE.setting.pbc] Segmentation fault: 11 *sigh*
jnthn Congrats 11:15
lizmat trying again once to make sure it wasn't a cosmic ray
jnthn Anyway, EnumMap.at_key is calling .exists
So it won't work out.
We should probably change that. 11:16
lizmat ah, so that's another double .WHICH applied, is what you mean
jnthn Yeah 11:18
Well, we can always do gist.github.com/jnthn/5604090 I guess
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jnthn Which should also be faster 11:18
lizmat existskye ? existskey you mean? 11:19
jnthn sure, I'm not testing any of this :P 11:20
Just hinting in a hopefully helpful direction :)
lizmat hehe… I am
jnthn is working on $other-task in parallel :) 11:21
lizmat appreciates any spare cycles she can get from jnthn
dalek kudo/jvm-support: a754582 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/rakudo/Binder.java:
Fix 'is rw'/'is parcel' binding.
 11:26
lizmat this seems to fix all test errors *and* fixes one todo 11:27
jnthn: success!
jnthn \o/
lizmat++
lizmat will create a pull request after a spectest run 11:28
masak lizmat: I may have said this already, but it bears repeating: it's great to have you on the channel, doing stuff. I feel invigorated just seeing things happening, and I invariably like investigating/filing the issues you dig up. 11:31
lizmat masak: fwiw, I feel invigorated myself as well, so that's a win-win ! 11:32
masak \o/ 11:34
your descent into the fray of the action reminds me of me back in 2008, when I filed dozens of rakudobugs each week. 11:35
but you're attacking Perl 6 on the spec level, whereas I was doing it on the Rakudo level. brings different issues to the forefront.
lizmat yes, I remember that, from a distance unfortunately :-(
hehe… yes,
so yesterday I said: Why don't we have a prefix ~~ ? 11:36
r: say ~~"a"
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«a␤»
lizmat r: say ~~1
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«1␤» 11:37
lizmat just stringifies it twice now, afaics
jnthn I think STD warns on it also
lizmat std: say ~~1
camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Expecting a term, but found either infix ~~ or redundant prefix ~␤ (to suppress this message, please use space between ~ ~) at /tmp/sNGqFXDkW6 line 1:␤------> say ~~⏏1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 41m␤»
lizmat ah, that would have been useful 11:38
my expectation was that it was the same as "$_ ~~ "a""
masak hm! 11:39
lizmat anyway, the warning would have been fine also… :-)
masak yes, I can see the usefulness of that.
it's sort of an in-between form between the full infix:<~~> and a 'when' statement. 11:40
lizmat I wanted to use it inside a grep
jnthn Note that you can write .ACCEPTS(1) already 11:42
grep already smart-matches though :)
lizmat basically: $hash{ grep{ $_ ~~ $something }, $hash.keys }:p
yes, but not the right way for me… as I need the pairs
jnthn Just write $hash{grep $something, $hash.keys}:P
Or $hash.grep(*.key ~~ $something) 11:43
lizmat ah, cool!
lizmat learned something again 11:44
jnthn These things happen ;)
lizmat a lot lately :-)
next problem (only a display issue, but a pain with debugging) 11:45
r: my @a=([Any]); say @a
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context in block at /tmp/m_YpjrDiIm:1␤␤␤»
lizmat I think that's the .gist 11:46
if that's intentional, then that's ok... 11:47
jnthn My immediate reaction is that it feels LTA.
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masak r: my @a = [Any]; say @a; my @b = Any; say @b 11:48
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context in block at /tmp/0nUKvAytj1:1␤␤␤use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context in block at /tmp/0nUKvAytj1:1␤␤␤»
jnthn I guess the question is if .gist on an array should recursively apply gist to the elements. 11:49
I don't *immediately* see why not.
masak right.
lizmat ok, I'll see if I can fix that… :-) 11:51
jnthn Warning: arrays are much scarier than hashes ;-)
lizmat hehe… I don't scare that easy :-) 11:52
masak .oO( laziness: the latent horror )
jnthn ;)
lizmat anyway, I now have a working model for module lookups with longname/from/auth & version
masak \o/ 11:53
jnthn ooh!
lizmat which should also support ranges and wildcards on auth and all of that 11:54
on that thought and the sun starting to shine here, I'm going to do some cycling, so away for a few hours 11:55
jnthn enjoy :)
masak heads to le grocery store 11:57
jnthn realizes it's trátttid 11:58
eh, worreva
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tadzik FROGGS: hehe, indeed :) 12:31
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FROGGS O.o 13:27
ahh, yes
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masak lizmat: over here in southern Sweden, the sun has started to shine days ago... and it just won't stop :/ 13:40
(except at night. I meant in the daytime.) 13:41
FROGGS it's raining here since yesterday :/
well, the sun is shining in the night too to be honest
masak srsly, it's too hot now. and it's only mid-May.
FROGGS Texas, we are coming \o/
masak kicks global warming on the shins 13:42
moritz www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl5....01940.html perl 5.18.0 released 13:43
yoleaux 17 May 2013 22:26Z <lizmat> moritz: your solution worked, and indeed :delete has a similar issue
moritz \o/ 13:44
FROGGS moritz: hehe, you can see my name in your post :P 13:45
hmmm, I know about 20% of the ppl 13:46
moritz: what was your contribution? 13:47
13:52 Su-Shee joined
Su-Shee hey folks. :) 13:52
jnthn grrr...so darn hot.
masak Su-Shee++! \o/ 13:53
FROGGS o/ 13:59
masak Su-Shee: thanks for writing that manifesto. it made me stop and reflect. 14:00
Su-Shee masak: cost me three new grey hairs ;) 14:01
masak I can imagine. 14:03
I'm not even close to feeling like I understand gender issues, but I agree with Randall Munroe: it's hugely complicated. 14:04
Su-Shee lots of exhausting discussions afterwards. with guys telling me I'm wrong. ;)
masak: then our message didn't come across properly. :) we basically said "it's not complicated" :)
masak I think it is, and always will be. 14:05
I thought your message was more like "the current 'solution' isn't a solution".
gender issues are complicated in the sense that they are life-complete. 14:06
Su-Shee: do you get the impression that there is (roughly) a US-Europe split in attitudes on CoCs?
Su-Shee masak: there's a lot of unsaid facepalm on our (perl women's) part. 14:07
masak: A LOT
masak ok :/
Su-Shee masak: the entire discussion, the wording, the policy is totally alien to me
masak: and what I get from eastern europe and russia: they're even more baffled. 14:08
masak Su-Shee: your attitude reminds me of my mom's. she's a successful businesswoman, and she can completely balk at the mere idea of some "women's conventions" or "women's networds". she says "I'm an entrepreneur. quit defining me as an entrepreneur-with-boobs-fancy-that." 14:09
networks* 14:10
Su-Shee masak: I absolutely support (and worked a lot) supporting things like "girl's day" and teaching underpriveliged girls and support them and give them any help... but we're talking about grown up, usally educated women here. I think I can reasonably expect a little more hands-on and reflection about own anxieties... 14:11
masak yes, exactly. 14:12
14:13 p5eval left
Su-Shee masak: one argument goes "it's not for women like you" 14:13
"like me" meaning something along the lines "of your temper" "your age" "you're already in the community". 14:14
diakopter if you've ever seen Portlandia's satirical portrayal of the two women bookstore owners/operators, you'll have a glimpse of the hilarious/stereotypical perception of such perspectives... from Portland (in particular) 14:19
it's also biting commentary; by absurd caricature, the logic of particularly myopic arguments is exposed bare for all it's worth 14:22
(being an effective offshoot of Saturday Night Live, it's actually particularly balanced critique/comedy of quite a few different conflicting perspectives, like SNL itself) 14:23
Su-Shee diakopter: I spent nearly three years living hardcore feminism "women only" style and did feminism and women's studies as one of my main subject in university.. I left when a certain absurdity started in the german discussion.. 14:24
diakopter ... the only perspective it explicitly mocks without being somewhat sympathetic is the perspective that it's not okay to laugh at such things
Su-Shee diakopter: and I _mean_ hardcore feminism. the ultra leftist kind of. ;)
diakopter sounds like you imply the kind that Americans combine with the name of german WWI/WWII national socialist party :? 14:25
(in the *highest* ultimately pejorative sense) 14:26
Su-Shee diakopter: haha. no, that luckily died with the end of the war. also, it's not considered "feminism" :)
diakopter: I can take - and love - political jokes. :) 14:27
diakopter :)
Su-Shee diakopter: also, not the era was a different kind of radical feminism, it was more pointed to women themselves.
s/not/no/
diakopter I just meant the almost cruelly negative twisting of the name feminism used to imply modern-day feminists are akin to members of said party 14:29
Su-Shee I realized :)
diakopter: it's a common expression here, actually.
diakopter s/almost// 14:30
though really it's a pun
Su-Shee diakopter: anyways. the signing perl women are very angry. 14:31
diakopter: what I wrote is the harmless, toned down version.
diakopter I was flabbergasted when I saw 1 thumbs-down on my comment on the 2nd post (on which they linked your writings) - which was just: "(and there were several other women who signed it) (fyi)" 14:32
because it wasn't directly stated, I was just clarifying...
a completely factual comment, with no subjectivism or opinion. 14:33
and yet it got a thumbs-down.
*shakes head*
Su-Shee diakopter: what leaves me completely baffled is basically that a group of women knowing "the scene" for many years and knowing others, too say "calm down, it's way less worse than you think it is" and that gets completely ignored by guys then telling us "but you're wrong" - "wtf?" 14:35
diakopter well, as far as this year's yapc goes in particular, we have access to particularly direct law enforcement action if it comes to that
crossing the line from free speech to slander and obscenity/abuse happens all too quickly 14:36
Su-Shee diakopter: next I hear "it's not for you." (for whom is it then?) and even if it isn't for me anymore because "I made it" - why doesn't anybody even ASK us what we AFTER we made the experiences is required to make communities more welcome...
diakopter Su-Shee: what is especially ironic is that feminists should feel very happy Austin is the chosen locale, since Austin has a very distinctive/rare lack of discrimination against women, in the area of allowing lack of shirts in public... and yet the sort of women who generally take advantage of the lack of city ordinance against female toplessness are definitely not the sort of women whose opinions they care about 14:41
Su-Shee diakopter: haha, really? are we really talking austin, texas? :) 14:42
diakopter yes.
Su-Shee diakopter: I hear you poor organizing bloke sit right in the middle between all chairs of it.. very heroic. :) 14:45
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timotimo where do i look to find that online discussion? i thought perlmonks, but the feed on the front page is apparently not "a raging torrent of all posts ever" 14:51
diakopter noooo you don't want to know
seriously though, don't mention links here please
I'll reply in privmsg 14:52
timotimo ... all right
is it that bad, yes?
masak sorear: I can almost but not quite make out the ideas in www.math.uconn.edu/~kconrad/blurbs/...cenorm.pdf -- which makes it interesting to me. thank you. 14:53
diakopter it's just that I think it crosses the line into off-topic. I mean, currently it's a meta-discussion, but linking the actual rage-smears can lead to violent/harmful/painful engagement of enemies 14:54
[when people decide to get directly involved who weren't previously.. and there are much more appropriate locales for such things] 14:55
moritz timotimo: it's really not worth reading, unless you want to headdesk several times 14:56
timotimo er, okay. i'll gladly listen to multiple people wiser than me.
(i was certainly not going to get involved. i know how ugly these discussions get and i know how little i know about feminism and discrimination and such to have a sensible opinion) 14:57
14:57 woosley1 left
Su-Shee facepalming and hair-pulling helps too... 14:57
14:58 p5eval joined
diakopter Su-Shee: well, I'm certainly not objective about it. I've made errors in communication, but thankfully I'm also the one who found the solution to the problem [that I also created]. 14:58
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diakopter [speaking of the practical logistics decision of dinner venue selection that sparked the irc exchanges] 15:00
Su-Shee I feel the need to faceplam some more. ;))
census hi su-shee! 15:01
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diakopter Su-Shee: I think my big mistake was forgetting that I spent 22 years not far from Austin and so was familiar with its nature.. and assumed that the conference as a whole was therefore okay with [at least being near] Sixth Street's debauchery, since that's where several events were [anticipated to be] planned... but it turns out many people were unfamiliar with the nature of Sixth Street and Austin as a whole 15:06
Su-Shee diakopter: you're hopefully not beating yourself up, are you? 15:07
diakopter no no
Su-Shee good.
census diakopter: is that where south by southwest is? 15:08
diakopter yes
census it does not seem that crazy there but maybe i was not at the right part of the street when i visited ?
diakopter and it's fine. it's far more tame than having tons of gigantic tech conferences in Las Vegas
census conferences should be in vegas 15:09
Su-Shee I'd draw a line before bunnies unless hugh hefner actually pays the entire perl conference. ;)
dalek p/rak-jvm-support: 99dbf54 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (2 files):
Start preparing to kill off getCodeRefs().

Will attempt to use annotations to convey this information instead.		 15:10
p/rak-jvm-support: 43cd500 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Start attaching into to go in annotations.
p/rak-jvm-support: 66f45f7 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (2 files):
Add and start writing out code ref annotation.

Not yet being used for anything.
diakopter "it's" above refers to census' reference to SxSW
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diakopter in fact, in the highly "conservative" crowds in which I was raised, Austin was derided/mocked as that bastion of liberals/feminists 15:12
(not with huge gravity, just with lighthearted ribbing and scoffing) 15:13
Su-Shee: I doubt TPF would accept such a donation. ;) 15:14
Su-Shee diakopter: I'd take it. Without even thinking a second :) I wouldn't wear bunny ears though. ;) 15:15
census well austin is "keep austin weird" right? 15:16
diakopter yeah, but trying to be interestingly different is a very common sentiment lots of places 15:17
masak Austin was marked on a North Korea map of nuclear missile targets in some photos released from NK. The Daily Show's John Stewart jokingly asked whether NK was deliberately trying to win the rest of Texas over. 15:19
diakopter hee hee
I mean, yes, of course it's completely unfair that the 6th street debauchery gets lumped with the intellectual tendencies of the university.. 15:21
census how do they get lumped?
diakopter just the nature of generalizations and labels to assume consistency and ignore diversity and conflict 15:22
(and to assume causality of proximity) 15:23
s/of/from/
masak "Some members of a group say/do X, while some other members say/do not-X. Hypocrites!" 15:24
diakopter exactly :D
Su-Shee we should all get back to bickering of perl 5 versus perl 6 again. much more relaxing ;) 15:25
census oh. are you at the university?
su-shee: that is my favorite topic!!
masak census: mine, too! :)
census more like #perl versus #perl6
#perl6 rules!
masak but I don't see so much "versus", to be honest.
census masakism rules!
oh no it is versus
diakopter census: heh no, I went to that university's self-assumed "rival" - the other ginormous land-grant university system in Texas
census #perl6 is the best!
masak it's "Perl 5 *and* Perl 6". together, they rock.
census texas a&m? 15:26
no #perl is mean :(
diakopter yah
census but su-shee is cool
diakopter census: you're mean for overgeneralizing #perl :)
census oh i am
i love to stereotype and generalize 15:27
i'm not politically correct
masak hates all those bloody over-generalizers who just bunch lots of disparate people together into one homogenous group :P 15:28
Su-Shee I'd like to be as individual and unique as all the other unique individuals.
masak "We are all individuals!" -- "I'm not." 15:30
census that is my job to lump people together! 15:31
diakopter "you are not a beautiful and unique snowflake, you are the same decaying organic matter as everyone else, and we are all part of the same compost pile." -Fight Club 15:32
masak haha
census i look at the data and make a generalization
and say on average this is what the data says about the people
masak census: that made my day ;)
census so lots of lumping
diakopter *cackle*
census but su-shee is cool even though su-shee visits #perl
masak yeah, what's up with that? 15:33
doesn't fit the whole over-generalization theory.
census well there is politeness too i guess. 15:34
there are few people in #perl that are ok.
su-shee is one of them
but otherwise #perl should be banned from irc
diakopter *sigh*..
census the whole channel
dalek p/rak-jvm-support: 996eca2 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (5 files):
Start transition to new CodeRef handling.

This doesn't rip out any of the "old way", just starts using the new annotation for code ref static info instead.		 15:35
p/rak-jvm-support: 594995c | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Eliminate code-gen for huge code refs array.
p/rak-jvm-support: e831031 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/stage0/ (10 files):
Update bootstrap.
census and #perl people should have to join #perl6 and help develop #perl6
tadzik I don't get such an impression from #perl
but I'm also not someone who'd ever ban any channel :)
diakopter dear posterity: must we announce a disclaimer on everything said here that's controversial, in case you were to assume that just because someone doesn't object/correct, everyone agrees with what was said?
census who is posterity? 15:36
masak waves enthusiastically to posterity
tadzik if people silently disagree, it's their fault
masak posterity: you're so cool! you rock! sorry about that peak oil thing.
census what's peak oil?
diakopter dear god
masak census: something off topic. don't worry, it's all past us now.
census hahah 15:37
diakopter; can i ask you a question about texas?
diakopter not if it's like the last few questions
census no i don't think so
do you know the term texie? if so, is it still offensive today?
diakopter be sure
I frankly have never heard that before. If you're not just making it up, I'm sure plenty of other people have though. 15:38
census no i'm not making it up. people from oklahoma were once regularly called okie, from texas texie, and from arkansas arkie. and it was highly offensive apparently 15:39
masak find a definition of "texie" on Urban Dictionary, and immediately regrets doing so 15:40
finds*
Su-Shee oh yes. I read that in school. in grapes of wrath from the forties.
masak: yeah looking things up on the internet is a dangerous thing.. :)
census i yes su-shee :)
i was just wondering if that term survived past the 1940s 15:41
because at the time it was so highly offensive
jnthn Ah, darn it. nqp/master has a busted JVM build, and the working one is in rak-jvm-support, which I can't really merge...
...without merging the Rakudo jvm-support branch too, at least.
timotimo r: my Mu @stuff = [ [151], [*, *], [40, *, *] ]; @stuff.perl.say;
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Array+{TypedArray}.new([[151], [*, *], [40, *, *]])␤»
census su-shee: did you like the book?
jnthn Which I wasn't gonna do.
timotimo oh neat :)
jnthn Ahead of this month's release... 15:42
diakopter census: why would you ask such a thing if you thought there was a chance it was a highly offensive ethnic slur? don't do anything like that again please
timotimo is idly considering trying to write an elegant solution to rosettacode.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_triangle/Puzzle
diakopter jnthn: make a new master-ish branch? 15:43
tadzik how stupid is that
census well i am just wondering scienfitically speaking. i've read some books in which people discuss it scientifically.
jnthn Oh phew, a resposne without me having to rephrase the thing controversially so it gets discussed here :P
masak timotimo: ooh, that's a neat puzzle.
jnthn diakopter: Not sure quite how that helps me... 15:44
timotimo i'm not sure how general the solution should become
masak timotimo: what are the parameters, though? the filled-in numbers, of course. the number of rows? the number of variables?
diakopter jnthn: oh, I was thinking rollback a ways
masak timotimo: yes, my thought exactly.
jnthn diakopter: Oh, revert what busted it. Hm, good point.
Just need to be careful with merging :)
dalek p/rak-jvm-support: d048df5 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/ (3 files):
Toss more dead code.
 15:45
diakopter jnthn: heh
timotimo masak: for instance the prolog version pretty much uses the description of the problem as its "input", which is so often the case with prolog, and could be variable in almost all aspects (does that even make sense?) 15:46
FROGGS omfg, I had a weird issue right now, first I import a sub called eq_array, which wasnt found at runtime. then I discovered that every sub that has a 'q' in it couldnt be used...
timotimo but other solutions apparently solve exactly this puzzle, with no variability for shuffling missing numbers around etc
FROGGS this is the bad line: github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/blob/maste....nqp#L3733 15:47
jnthn FROGGS: *lol*
FROGGS: Yes, that'd do it.
FROGGS first I was think that 'eq' followd by the underscore might be the issue... 15:48
tadzik haha 15:49
FROGGS (like the rakudo sub not-whatever {} bug)
timotimo there's a lengthy discussion on the 100 Doors task discussion page about wether or not more "optimized" solutions are to be posted to RC at all
masak FROGGS++ # hah! 15:50
timotimo rosettacode.org/wiki/Talk:100_doors...d_Examples - it was also linked from the Pascal's Triangle / Puzzle Discussion page
15:50 crazedpsyc is now known as testone, testone is now known as crazedpsyc
timotimo FROGGS: i don't really understand why that assertion would reject blahqblah? there's a ^ and a $ there quite clearly ... oh! OH! :D 15:51
FROGGS *g*
yeah
timotimo isn't there a flag for the match operator that puts ^ and $ around the match implicitly? 15:52
FROGGS no idea 15:53
timotimo masak: for example, the BBC basic version has the input as comments and then a matrix + vector form of the whole equation system 15:54
(as the thing the code operates on)
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dalek kudo/jvm-support: 7d2e5b4 | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
Remove a fragile ordering dependency.
 16:12
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timotimo rosettacode.org/wiki/Permutations#Perl_6 - could i basically-copy-paste this permutation implementation and use it to supply List.permutations in rakudo? 16:28
also, it seems like there are no tests for permutations in the spectest suite yet.
i can't really tell why the second piece of code is better than the first one. because it doesn't use recursion? 16:30
(also, the list has to be sorted first for that to work) 16:37
it also seems to break if two entries are equal. maybe it would be wise to just generate a list of index permutations and apply those to the list "on the way out" 16:39
arnsholt timotimo: Testing a randomisation function is a bit tricky 16:44
yoleaux 17 May 2013 01:38Z <[Coke]> arnsholt: can you get zavolaj passing its tests so we can cut a star a release? I see you've got some other commits in htere.
arnsholt [Coke]: Ah, that. The fail is a segfault in the callback test file, right? (08-callbacks.t IIRC) 16:45
timotimo: One way to do it would be to shuffle a three-element array, say 100 times, and make sure the distribution is uniform(ish)
16:48 colomon joined
colomon o/ 16:48
arnsholt IIRC Knuth's TAoCP has a bit on this particular topic. If you give me a prod on Tuesday I can find it, if you don't have a copy easily available 16:49
sorear o/ colomon
arnsholt \o
colomon sorear!
timotimo arnsholt: but permutations doesn't need to be random 16:52
16:53 SamuraiJack left
timotimo and the specs doesn't speak about the randomness at all, so i'd just go with non-random 16:53
but the tests could still work, you just have to check for existence of all permutations, rather than compare against some permutation list or something
16:54 Su-Shee_ joined
arnsholt timotimo: Oh, I misunderstood. I talked before reading the RC page =) 16:54
I thought it was "generate -a- permutation", not "generate all permutations" 16:55
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timotimo hehe. 16:55
16:56 kaare__ joined 16:58 Su-Shee left 17:00 kaare_ left
arnsholt What timezone is [Coke] in, again? 17:16
17:20 census left
FROGGS arnsholt: whois says netherlands but I believe he is from 'murica 17:22
arnsholt 'k
'cuz the failing test in Zavolaj is both really old and really gnarly, and I'm not sure how to fix it =( 17:23
FROGGS arnsholt: he lives in NY
hmmm
well, then at least fudge the test? 17:24
are modules depending on that broken thing you know of?
arnsholt It's not a test that fails, either =)
Something goes wrong with the Parrot internals, so it can happen at the end of the test file or in the middle of it, depending on when stuff gets GCed 17:25
FROGGS uhh
arnsholt As I said, really gnarly 17:26
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timotimo arnsholt: fix the failure by removing the test :D 17:35
oh, that was already said
arnsholt Yeah, if it was a single test I'd TODO it 17:36
timotimo mhm
the whole file then! :))
arnsholt =D 17:37
But the missus is going away to watch Eurovision with some friends soon, so I'll give it another whack tonight 17:38
I might actually have an idea what is wrong 17:39
FROGGS you maybe explain the problem then, sometimes that helps getting on the right track 17:43
arnsholt Parrot segfaults on GC after a callback (from C into Perl code) has been invoked
I think my callback handling is broken, and has to invoke an inferior runloop when handling the callback 17:44
colomon FROGGS: +1 # I think half the time I figure out my problem before I can finish typing it out to explain....
FROGGS colomon: right, same for me 17:45
because you focus to narrow when not explaining it to an outstander
arnsholt Of course, fixing that involves NQP code, which means the fix won't propagate into Star until after the next compiler release
Yeah, explaining is definitely a good idea =)
FROGGS well, but if this has to be done, then there might be no other way 17:46
arnsholt Oh, definitely
Pretty much any Zavolaj bug is actually an NQP bug =)
FROGGS ohh wait, when is the may release planned? I remember that this is actually my task O.O
compiler release that is 17:47
ahh: 2013-05-23 Rakudo #64 "Austin" FROGGS
dalek rl6-bench: 9de6718 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
Add header line to plot output
rl6-bench: d56f568 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
Format plot highlighter hover text a bit better
rl6-bench: 9d362e1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | analyze:
Show unscaled tests as bar charts, not series plots
rl6-bench: 35dbf43 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | jqplot/plugins/jqplot. (2 files):
Add minimized jqPlot plugins needed to support bar charts
 17:48
arnsholt Oh, compiler release is still a few days out. Then I might make it
17:48 Su-Shee_ is now known as Su-Shee
adu hi all 17:54
[Coke] f 17:55
timotimo japhb: is there a page on the 'net showing some benchmark results from your project?
adu why is it called Zovalaj and not NativeCall? 17:56
Su-Shee because it's difficult to type and has a nice ring to it. 17:57
arnsholt Because reasons, sort of
Alternatively, hysterical raisins =)
adu lol 17:58
japhb timotimo, there are some old gists, but nothing recent.
I'm working on adding nqp-jvm support to perl6-bench, and then I'll post something more recent if I find a good place for it. 17:59
timotimo cool :)
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japhb_ Is there a known fix for this error? java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Method code too large! 18:05
(When building nqp-jvm)
nwc10 which branch(es) are you using?
in that I had seen that, but pretty sure that it was on an older revision and jnthn knew how to fix it 18:06
and did so
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japhb_ nwc10, I'm on master, fully up to date 18:06
Did the fix go into rak-jvm-support? 18:07
nwc10 not jvm-support
I've been building jvm-support and rak-jvm-support
I don't think that master works yet
in particular, IIRC, NQP's master has a commit merged (by accident) which breaks stuff, but the related commit that fixes it is not merged 18:08
so I think "stick to jvm-support and rak-jvm-support until told otherwise"
jnthn Yes, that.
nwc10 also, the most current JVM (1.)7 you can update to on your platform 18:09
jnthn After the next Rakudo release we can merge both of those branches.
nwc10 as the JVM has bugs.
japhb_ OK
Which is more appropriate for benchmarking nqp-jvm itself right now, jvm-support or rak-jvm-support?
jnthn Meaning it'll be the June Rakudo that is the first compiler release with some amount (to be determined ;) of JVM support.
arnsholt jnthn: [Coke]++ reminded me of the callback problem, which I've thought a bit about lately 18:10
Could it be that I need to start an inferior runloop when the C code calls back into Parrot-land? 18:11
jnthn arnsholt: You almost certainly are doing so.
arnsholt: How do you invoke Parrot-land?
nwc10 japhb_: "both" - in that only NQP has the branch "rak-jvm-support" and only Rakudo has the branch "jvm-support"
jnthn rak-jvm-support is a branch needed for building an NQP that works with Rakudo's jvm-support branch. 18:12
arnsholt jnthn: Erm, I sneak away a reference to interp and use that to invoke the Parrot API when the callback is invoked
Which I realised is probably breaking the rules
timotimo solution found then? 18:13
japhb_ nwc10, NQP has branches with both names
jnthn I think the jvm-support NQP branch is legacy...is it still existing on the remote?
jnthn don't have it locally... 18:14
japhb_ hmmm, I see it in my clone, but I haven't recently looked into how git cleans those when the remote branch disappears
jnthn japhb_: Seems not, so maybe you have it 'cus you checked it out earlier?
japhb_: Short answer: it doesn't :)
japhb_ Well there you go 18:15
So I guess nqp/rak-jvm-support is the one I'll need to use until it gets merged back to nqp/master
jnthn (Long answer: the set of branches you have locally and that the remote has are independent of each other. When you checkout a remote branch for the first time what it really does is git branch -b branchname origin/branchname for you, or something close to that, but also setting the upstream along the way.) 18:16
(Thus you can have different local names for remote branches should you wish to.) 18:17
japhb_ jnthn, oh, yes I knew that, I meant the trimming of refs/remotes/*
jnthn Oh, git remote prune origin
japhb_ ah
jnthn iirc
japhb_ nice! A dozen origin refs go bye-bye 18:18
thanks, jnthn
colomon needs to figure out how to push branches for the set spec changes to roast.... 18:20
arnsholt jnthn: What's the appropriate way to start an inferior run-loop, BTW? 18:21
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jnthn arnsholt: Parrot_pcc_invoke_from_sig_object for example 18:32
18:33 Su-Shee left
arnsholt Right, that's what I'm doing, so not that after all =/ 18:36
18:36 Su-Shee joined
japhb_ Gah. nqp/rak-jvm-support builds and installs, but: $ ./nqp -e 'say("hello")' 18:36
Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..1, but got 3
in multi_declarator
18:37 dmol left
japhb_ Any ideas? 18:38
18:39 adu left, adu_ joined
timotimo for the longest time i thought inferior run lop referred to worse than optimal performance 18:42
lizmat fix for exists on typed hashes: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/142 18:43
jnthn japhb_: Where are you doing the ./nqp ? 18:46
japhb_: The error is not familiar, however.
arnsholt jnthn: So the saving and passing around of the interp pointer I do is likely to be kosher? It feels a bit icky, TBH, but it doesn't look like there's a way to independently get an interp pointer 18:48
jnthn arnsholt: That bit should be OK 18:53
lizmat slightly faster module loading (temporary fix): github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/143 18:55
lizmat is off for some mindless ESC watching
FROGGS arnsholt: when receiving a callback from a c-lib in perl5 land you have the pointer of the main interpreter too, but most times you clone the interpreter and work with the clone 18:58
tadzik lizmat++ 19:00
faster module loading is a Big Deal
real-world applications are going to notice this much more than spectests, I'm sure
nwc10 a reasonably recent git can do git fetch --prune 19:04
git fetch --prune --all # gets the lot
arnsholt jnthn: Dang. I really thought that was it =) 19:06
nwc10 [nicholas@dromedary-001 nqp]$ strace -f perl -le 'print "Hi"' 2>&1 >/dev/null | wc 19:08
173 1156 10662
[nicholas@dromedary-001 nqp]$ strace -f ./nqp -e 'say("Hi")' 2>&1 >/dev/null | wc
7072 55030 538918
and, unsurprisingly, one of these is slower
nqp on parrot is a lot more respectable: 19:09
625 4192 46437
Su-Shee at least one of us doing something useful...
19:10 dmol joined 19:18 ifim joined
timotimo masak: your gift has reached me :) 19:26
GlitchMr std: my $empty-set = set; # well, it was before 19:28
camelia std 9906f18: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤The 'set' listop may not be called without arguments (please use () or whitespace to clarify) at /tmp/fI1Ys1TvFA line 1:␤------> my $empty-set = set⏏; # well, it was before␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 42m␤»
19:30 tgt left
jnthn nwc10: What to the three numbers mean? 19:30
*do
nwc10 lines, "words", bytes 19:31
so lines is really the only one that matters - number of system calls.
jnthn oh, duh, I missed the wc
nwc10 java -version isn't much worse than perl -v
timotimo lizmat: could it be that your :delete changes got mixed into the faster module load pull request?
moritz looks like it 19:32
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japhb_ jnthn, I get that same error in all three cases: CWD is nqp/ and using ./nqp ; CWD is nqp/ and using install/nqp ; CWD is nqp/install/ and using ./nqp 19:35
Oh now that's interesting.
It's not *exactly* the same error. The nqp in install/nqp/ has 'expected 0..0' instead of 'expected 1..1' 19:36
nwc10 Things work for me with this Java: 19:37
java version "1.7.0_21"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-1ubuntu1)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)
and this Java:
java version "1.7.0_19"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (rhel-2.3.9.1.el6_4-x86_64)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)
(and the Java on the Raspberry Pi, but that's powered off and doesn't do wake on lan) 19:38
jnthn japhb_: That's...really odd. I'm struggling to guess.
japhb_ I
jnthn japhb_: does -v work? 19:39
japhb_ I've got this java:
java version "1.7.0_21"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-0ubuntu0.12.10.1)
OpenJDK Client VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode, sharing)
jnthn, no. :-(
jnthn japhb_: Same error?
japhb_ jnthn, close 19:40
$ ./nqp -v
Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..1, but got 2
in multi_declarator:sym<multi>
jnthn Can you gist me the full trace?
japhb_ That's literally all of it. 19:41
jnthn I want to know how on earth we end up in multi_declarator:sym<multi>!
oh...wtf...
You have latest from Git?
japhb_ tries a git clean -dXf and ConfigureJVM again
yep, I did, will pull again just in case
jnthn Very weird.
I mean, it looks like it invokes completely the wrong thing at startup 19:42
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japhb_ Oh that's interesting. There's a couple files that 'make clean' did not remove, but 'git clean -dXf' did: Makefile, config.status, and src/gen/nqp-config.nqp -- that last one is very fishy to me. 19:43
jnthn config.status I can see not going away
The others, less so...
make realclean should kill the Makefile
japhb_ There's no realclean in the Makefile generated by ConfigureJVM.pl . 19:44
jnthn Oh. 19:45
Well, that's an easy fix... :)
japhb_ :-)
jnthn The other thing, though, is weird.
japhb_ nqp-config.nqp, you mean?
jnthn No, the error you're getting.
japhb_ ah
Dang it, same error again 19:49
ok, I'm at the tip of rak-jvm-support. Is that where you are too, nwc10? 19:50
timotimo tries to build a newer jvmkudo 19:51
japhb_ Just in case it helps, here are the slightly different errors for nqp/install/nqp: 19:52
$ install/nqp -v
Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 1..1, but got 2
in onlystar
$ cd install; ./nqp -v 19:53
Unhandled exception: Wrong number of arguments passed; expected 0..0, but got 2
in
In all three cases, those are the complete errors
jnthn japhb_: Have you done successful builds in the past? 19:54
japhb_ yes, but last time I tried was weeks ago.
jnthn Try 9756183, which is before today's changes
japhb_ got it 19:55
Building it now 19:56
Woah, the build segfaulted 19:58
jnthn, error gist at gist.github.com/japhb/179e0e5382b2fe03b28e 20:00
timotimo ./nqp -e 'say("hello")'; - works for me. but when i write that in the nqp repl i get a NPE and lots of more error
japhb_
.oO( 32-bit fail? )
jnthn japhb_: whoa 20:01
japhb_: Scary thing is, we have no unmanaged extensions of any kind...it's all JVM bytecode and Java code...
So that's a kosher JVM bug. :/ 20:02
jnthn wonders if 32-bit is anything to do with it, but it seems unlikely
japhb_ Nice. It figures, given my previous experience with Java, that I would manage to trigger a JVM bug. *rolls eyes*
arnsholt jnthn: How's life in Malmö today, BTW =)
jnthn arnsholt: Well, ask masak...I'm 15km north in Lund ;) 20:03
And safe from all the happenings in the big city :P
japhb_ Anyone else have 32-bit x86 (especially linux) who can attempt to recreate the failure?
arnsholt Sounds like an excellent plan today!
(That last at jnthn, obv) 20:04
japhb_ goes to make a sandwich and hope someone volunteers. ;-) 20:05
timotimo volunteers to eat it?
japhb :-P 20:06
timotimo is the jakudo executable supposed to be able to say "oh"?
nwc10 jnthn: straw poll (1 run) but numbers consistent with donaldh's suggestion - bigger JVM heap makes parsing faster 20:08
[and actually finish :-)]
actually, that suggests that pruning memory use (if possible) would be a speedup in itself 20:09
dalek : 2644cc5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
fixed pattern of impossible sub names
: d411631 | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
fudged path to test.pl

With this commit we pass more than one percent of the test suite.
nwc10 assuming that progress is going to be S-shaped, 1% is actually quite impressive 20:10
timotimo huh, 1% of what? 20:11
nwc10 20:09 < dalek> v5: With this commit we pass more than one percent of the test suite. 20:13
arnsholt Ther Perl 5 test suite, I imagine 20:14
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timotimo ooooh :) 20:17
20:17 rindolf left
FROGGS right 20:17
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timotimo FROGGS: cool stuff :) 20:25
FROGGS ya, goes well atm
timotimo when do you expect the first major roadblock? 20:26
Ulti FROGGS is there a specific commit of v5 to use with the latest R*? 20:28
or do I need to be building the latest Rakudo
20:29 census joined
FROGGS Ulti: best is latest rakudo, and then read the README 20:32
Ulti yeah just noticed even filenames have changed from the version I have
Su-Shee japhb_> Anyone else have 32-bit x86 (especially linux) who can attempt to recreate the failure? 20:35
japhb_: I have
japhb_ Su-Shee, great, can you give it a try?
Su-Shee japhb_: if you tell me what I have to get and do, sure.
that's my java: java version "1.6.0_27" 20:36
good enough?
japhb_ Su-Shee, I think 1.7 is required now
Su-Shee oh. 20:37
japhb_ because of features nqp-jvm users
:-(
(to the 'oh.')
Su-Shee what else do I need?
japhb_ That's all I know of.
Su-Shee japhb_: no, I mean what of rakudo/jakudo do I have to get? 20:38
in 12 seconds I have java 1.7 ;) 20:41
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Su-Shee java version "1.7.0_21" 20:48
20:51 yoleaux joined
japhb_ excellent 20:51
Su-Shee I blindly guessed that I need nqp and configurejvm.pl 20:52
japhb_ Su-Shee, no rakudo ... just nqp. Either the rak-jvm-support branch, or commit 9756183
Su-Shee already building ;)
japhb_ master would build for me, but not run. 20:53
20:53 yoleaux left, arlinius left, yoleaux joined
Su-Shee uhm. ;) 20:53
java.lang.RuntimeException: java.lang.RuntimeException: Method code too large!
in <anon>make: *** [src/stage1/QAST.class] Error 1 20:54
japhb_ Sorry, no, I meant, master wouldn't build (failed with an NQP error -- that same one you saw),
rak-jvm-support would build but not run,
Su-Shee ok, let's see.
japhb_: where's rak-jvm-support?
japhb_ and commit 9756183 segfaults during build
It's just an NQP branch
Su-Shee trying the commit 9756183 20:55
japhb_ 'make clean; git clean -dXf; git checkout rak-jvm-support; perl ConfigureJVM.pl; make && make install'
nod
Su-Shee (building..) 20:56
how do I run it?
jnthn ./nqp -e "say('it lives!')" or so 20:57
20:57 cognominal left
Su-Shee ok. still building :) 20:57
20:57 cognominal joined
Su-Shee commit built, runs, lives. 21:00
shall I try rak-jvm-support next?
(already doing it..) 21:01
japhb_ WTH 21:02
Su-Shee well.. everything generally builds and runs here ;)
japhb_ Which linux are you running?
Su-Shee also, I got the oracle java.
slackware 21:03
japhb_ Oh, hmm
what's your 'java -version'?
FROGGS <Su-Shee> java version "1.7.0_21"
Su-Shee java version "1.7.0_21"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_21-b11)
Java HotSpot(TM) Server VM (build 23.21-b01, mixed mode)
japhb_ FROGGS, I was looking for the full output
Su-Shee ^^^^
japhb_ Mmm-hmmm
32-bit IcedTea bug?
Su-Shee it's not build by hand though, it's oracle's whatever binary jdk package (not jre) and then just repackaged for slackware 21:04
japhb_: what's that?
rak-jvm-support built, too, runs, lives. 21:05
japhb_ Su-Shee, it's this: $ java -version
java version "1.7.0_21"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-0ubuntu0.12.10.1)
OpenJDK Client VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode, sharing)
Su-Shee japhb_: ok, whatever that is.. I have "plain" java.
jnthn also
japhb_
.oO( No foam! )
Su-Shee mind that this was actually 32bit now. 21:06
21:06 berekuk left
Su-Shee master directly fails during build, though. 21:07
can I build anything else? :)
japhb_ OK, so the master thing we believe to just be a broken commit that will be fixed when rak-jvm-support is merged back.
And it's looking suspiciously like OpenJDK/IcedTea may be at fault for me. 21:08
Su-Shee japhb_: just get the "orginal" package?
japhb_ Does anyone have 64-bit OpenJDK/IcedTea to rule that out?
21:08 prevost left
japhb_ Su-Shee, Well ... there are two goals here: 1) get me working (for which your suggestion is probably most expedient), and 2) know WTH is wrong, so that when other people inevitably trip over the same problem, we can help them right off. 21:09
nwc10 things work for me on this x86_64 Ubuntu system:
java version "1.7.0_21"
OpenJDK Runtime Environment (IcedTea 2.3.9) (7u21-2.3.9-1ubuntu1)
OpenJDK 64-Bit Server VM (build 23.7-b01, mixed mode)
Su-Shee japhb_: "it's you" :)
japhb_ OK, nwc10 narrows it down.
dalek : 50e2cf5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/test.pl:
fix signature of is()
: 8039b3e | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
make undef assign/return Nil instead of Mu
japhb_ Either A) it's me, or B) it's 32-bit OpenJDK. 21:10
(Since I'm running Mint, which is Ubuntu+tweaks)
Su-Shee I'd say, it's your specialty linux then, I couldn't be plainer and nwc10 is a common ubuntu... 21:11
japhb_ Su-Shee, the Mint tweaks are almost entirely graphical-desktop-related. 21:12
Su-Shee "almost entirely" ;)
Ulti FROGGS against the latest Rakudo when I do make install inside v5 I get: "Error while compiling block : Error while compiling op bind: Error while compiling op numify: Error while compiling op atkey: Error while compiling op getenvhash: No registered operation handler for 'getenvhash'" 21:13
Su-Shee if I remember correctly it's "just the completely other gnome" ;)
japhb_ (Sure, and stripping out Canonical-ad-ware)
Su-Shee japhb_: well you're right, I don't really see how this affects the jdk.
japhb_: on the other hand, if they really built theirs and packaged..
japhb_: which I just specifically didn't
japhb_: you can ask me any time to re-build something though to check.. I'm now up2date and just have to run it. 21:15
FROGGS Ulti: what do you mean by latest rakudo? I'm talking about nqp/master HEAD and rakudo/nom HEAD
japhb_ Su-Shee, OK, thanks
FROGGS Ulti: getenvhash is there since a few weeks
Ulti just cloned github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git the last commit was from you a day ago :S so I guess not that bleeding edge 21:18
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FROGGS Ulti: that is bleeding edge, yes 21:20
Ulti FROGGS: I bet its just me having some other perl6 in my path still one second, sorry 21:21
21:21 nyuszika7h joined
FROGGS Ulti: yeah, that must be it 21:22
Ulti need a perl6brew ;]
21:23 arlinius joined
FROGGS yeah :o) 21:23
Ulti yeah sorry FROGGS that was the problem ;__;
FROGGS np
21:24 donaldh joined
tadzik Ulti: did you try pandabrew? :) 21:26
21:26 DarthGandalf left, adu_ left
Su-Shee tadzik: you made a pandabrew? 21:26
21:26 adu joined
Su-Shee (also brewing pandas is pretty disgusting man.. :) 21:26
21:29 DarthGandalf joined
Ulti tadzik: I didn't even know it existed 21:29
jnthn Oh, I thought it was a tasty brew, made by a panda... :)
Ulti I'll check it out
tadzik yeah, I didn't advertise it much though :)
github.com/tadzik/pandabrew
it's imperfect, of course
and I'm afraid you need to install panda first :P 21:30
Ulti robsbeerquest.blogspot.co.uk/p/panda-frog.html pandafrogbrew
tadzik I'll hopefully get some tuits to fix it soon
Ulti tadzik just reading this olde thread involving jordynclee, linked from your blog... is it wrong that I'm laughing? lol 21:40
tadzik Ulti: jordynclee? Was that the "geeks can't dress" thing? 21:45
Ulti lol yeah
tadzik heh. It was a funny incident, yeah
Ulti I'd be fairly annoyed if that happened to me too though 21:46
tadzik I was too
it's one of those things at which you laugh after a year
(was it a year ago?)
Ulti yeah
I'm more laughing at how she utterly didn't know who she was messing with, she probably just googled "geek" or something in an image search 21:47
and obviously the most famous popup first ;P
FROGGS Ulti: linky? 21:50
masak Ulti: she was spectacularly tactless in her message, if you ask me. tried to combine "you geeks have an awful dress sense" with "hey, I do geek stuff too. I speak geek. I even watch [something irrelevant] sometimes"
tadzik "she utterly didn't know who she was messing with" -- that makes me feel like a Higher Order Gangsta ;)
masak Ulti: if you are targeting a demographic, it's a bad idea to start by pissing off same demographic, and appearing like a total poser. 21:51
tadzik FROGGS: ttjjss.wordpress.com/2012/08/09/loo...-internet/ 21:53
21:54 saxx11 joined
masak saxx11: aloha. 21:55
Ulti masak: agreed
I think she is p. young though especially as her Twitter feed suggests she wants to be a law student.. so you probably just made some 17 yol female blogger cry on the other side of the world :D 21:56
flussence haha, seems like that site's been taken down entirely 21:57
Ulti yeah
I havent seen how awful the blog post is.. maybe waybackwhen has it
21:57 dmol left
flussence IIRC, bad enough that that response was pretty restrained 21:58
Ulti web.archive.org/web/20120811002700/...shion-game LOL
you can't delete the internet (or your past)
FROGGS but where is that image?? 21:59
:P
Ulti well its a conference pic so I'm sure we can piece that together 22:00
timotimo oooh, that one 22:01
i remember that
FROGGS from yapc::eu? last year?
tadzik FROGGS: the image mysteriously disappeared after my blog post :)
FROGGS *g*
tadzik FROGGS: 4.bp.blogspot.com/-0svqBX518-4/T5Qa...G_3935.jpg that's the one 22:02
4.bp.blogspot.com/-0svqBX518-4/T5Qa...G_3935.jpg bigger
FROGGS tadzik: you're the one with the onion?
tadzik I think me and moritz++ were visible on her crop
FROGGS: that's right
timotimo oh, that was a lady? 22:03
masak I must say all of you in that picture look very appropriately dressed for a hackathon.
tadzik I still don't see her point. I was handsome as a devil himself
FROGGS where's the problem? I've expected at least a shirt like TimeToady++ wears
masak tadzik: agreed. :)
tadzik hehe
FROGGS (not that I won't wear such a shirt if I had one)
tadzik FROGGS: cargo pants and a hackathon t-shirt
bad dresscode, yo 22:04
FROGGS well, causal
tadzik the only non-perl t-shirts I own are google t-shirts ;P
well, almost
timotimo wow, that's dedication 22:05
FROGGS hehe
tadzik I wish they gave socks and underpants too, would make life so much easier 22:06
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Ulti my next tshirt is going to have this on www.iscb.org/images/stories/ismb201.../11897.jpg I figure about 1 in 10 thousand people it will be a conversation starter 22:06
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FROGGS Ulti: not for me :/ 22:07
I'd probably say 'ohh nice' and 'really?' 22:08
tadzik +1, or rather -1 ;)
FROGGS :o)
labster "nice kanji you got there Ulti"
masak "would be a shame if something were to... happen to it"
:P 22:09
labster masak++ lol
Ulti they're not kanji though, but yeah I guess there will be the confusion convo starter :)
tadzik I imagine that says "Talk Kanji to me"
masak Ulti: what are they? I recognize many of the top ones, but the bottom ones are either fake or very, very rare. 22:10
Ulti they're a calligraphy representation of the 20 common proteogenic amino acids
masak ooh! 22:11
that's *awesome*.
WANT
Ulti I want to make a font that has them, its a scientist that came up with them
masak oh wow oh wow oh wow
tadzik :D
Ulti the S shapes are the amino acids with sulphur in the + are positively charged... they are genuinely great characters to use for humans to understand
labster neat! 22:13
22:16 berekuk joined
labster I bought a new laptop, so I could actually have something to hack on at the YAPCNA hackathon -- and FROGGS++ helped me get linux running on it. 22:18
tadzik nice :) 22:20
I have a shiny new one too. The old one is on a well-deserved retirement
FROGGS labster: tell me if I'm wrong, but didn't you said on friday that you considered buying one? 22:21
quick decision maker, ehh?
labster: what is it?
labster I've been thinking about it for a week. I saw an advert for a Dell Inspiron 13Z for only 300 USD, with a Ivy Bridge Core i3. The price seemed about right for my poorness, so I bought it. 22:23
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FROGGS sounds cool 22:26
labster Intel says the CPU should cost 225 USD on its own for us consumers, so it seemed like a fairly good deal. 22:27
tadzik indeed
diakopter yapc austin registrations i.imgur.com/NTvWQGl.png 22:28
tadzik oh, I have to pay 22:29
FROGGS did that a few days back
lue "The currently compiling Perl parser" (S02:3105) == "the Perl parser currently being used for what's compiling" || "The Perl parser currently being compiled" ? 22:30
masak lue: True 22:31
diakopter the former
masak lue: (also, numification warnings/errors) :P
lue should've used a junction :P
masak rn: say "A" == "B" || "C"
camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏A' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:10020␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3008␤ in sub infix:<==> at src/gen/CORE.setting:3006␤ in sub…
..niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot parse number: A␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1502 (die @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3652 (ANON @ 10) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3654 (NumSyntax.str2num @ 5) ␤ at /h…
masak p5eval: 1 22:32
p5eval masak: 1
masak p5eval: "A" == "B" || "C"
p5eval masak: 1
masak p5eval: use warnings; "A" == "B" || "C"
p5eval masak: Argument "B" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at (eval 7) line 1.Argument "A" isn't numeric in numeric eq (==) at (eval 7) line 1.1
lue I thought it was the former, but I wasn't sure
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masak yes, it's the whole thing with "knowing what language you're currently parsing". 22:33
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lue Also, it's either the example at S02:3073 or me & rakudo that doesn't understand how BEGIN works 22:34
masak and language pragmas being tied to lexical scopes in the parsed text (and dynamic variables in the parser).
lue r: BEGIN { COMPILING::<$?FOO> = 42; }; say COMPILING::<$?FOO>; BEGIN { COMPILING::<$?FOO> = 45 }; # the example would say the output is 42 22:35
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camelia rakudo 9c5650: OUTPUT«45␤» 22:35
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FROGGS hmmm, I thought it will run all BEGIN blocks in ordner, then the rest of the code 22:35
lue just like I and rakudo think :) 22:36
FROGGS yeah
maybe there is something special about COMPILING::
lue So unless the example is right and we're all wrong, can I fix the example so it works like intended? (specifically, put each say and its preceding BEGIN in a separate closure) 22:37
FROGGS I'm not sure that I am the right guy to give you a +1 22:38
lue My question was to #perl6 in general :) [I will fix it soon, unless someone can tell me why it *should* work. COMPILING shouldn't affect how BEGIN blocks work, unless I've completely misunderstood BEGIN] 22:39
FROGGS k 22:40
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masak nice introduction to row types. www.cs.cmu.edu/~neelk/rows.pdf -- might interest some people in here. 22:53
'night, #perl6
lue g'♞ masak o/
dalek ecs: 81cf4c7 | lue++ | S02-bits.pod:
[S02] Fix COMPILING pseudopackage example.

The example seemed to show a misunderstanding of BEGIN blocks, at least by our undestanding :) . Fixed so that the BEGIN blocks work like they were intended, by moving each in a separate closure.		 22:54
lue masak: "a: int|r" strikes me initially as looking a lot like S02/Polymorphic Types (Conjectural) 23:00
[although I'd have to give this presentation a better look later, with an OCaml reference by my side :) ] 23:01
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