»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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[Coke] r: say 18 X- 6,7 X- 2,3,5,6, X- 3,5,6 00:43
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type X in numeric context in block at /tmp/RgKOexUGYm:1␤␤10 9 7 6 15 7 6 9 8 6 5 14 6 5␤»
[Coke] r: say 18 X- 6,7 X- 2,3,5,6 X- 3,5,6
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«7 5 4 6 4 3 4 2 1 3 1 0 6 4 3 5 3 2 3 1 0 2 0 -1␤» 00:44
[Coke] r: say (18 X- 6,7 X- 2,3,5,6 X- 3,5,6).uniq
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«7 5 4 6 3 2 1 0 -1␤»
TimToady decomuting & 00:46
[Coke] TimToady: ~~
TimToady *mm 00:47
but what do you expect for 3:45am...
really & 00:48
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japhb .tell pmurias I noticed I was highlighted re: startup time issues with perl6-bench -- Thanks to pmichaud++, perl6-bench goes through some pains to determine both the global *interpreter/VM* startup time, measured by running an empty program many times, and *compile/init* startup time for each scalable test individually, measured by running the test at SCALE=0, as timotimo says. This resulted in much more reliable and comparable results. 04:17
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to pmurias.
japhb (That said, I'm very much open to pull requests from anyone who figures out a better way.) 04:19
As for the in-proc v. out-of-proc question, across VMs and implementations I think the only way to be fair is to allow the results to be presented either with startup time included or excluded, so that users can consider whether startup time matters for their use case. 04:21
(and of course that's exactly what perl6-bench does) 04:22
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moritz good morning 05:15
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TimToady waiting at AMS now 06:39
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grondilu "AMS"? 06:49
Su-Shee good morning everyone.
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tadzik moritz: up for some sightseeing today? 07:01
moritz tadzik: yes, until around 1500, when I have to be back at the hotel 07:08
grondilu: amsterdam airport, probably 07:09
tadzik: do you want your laptop back?
tadzik moritz: yeah, sure :) 07:10
moritz tadzik: are you coming to dnipro hotel? there'll be a few groups leaving for sightseeing soonish 07:12
tadzik do they organize themselves on the internets somewhere? 07:14
I may come sightseeing with you, if I know any details
moritz last I knew from breakfast, they were plannng to organize themselves offline after breakfast 07:15
tadzik *grumble* 07:16
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moritz just come here, here is all the action :-) 07:17
moritz -> checking out
tadzik *grumble* 07:18
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tadzik could you give me an ETA on when you'll be leaving? 07:18
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JimmyZ what? can't push to github? 07:28
moritz tadzik: I'll wait for you in the lobby, because otherwise you won't get your laptop back :/ 07:29
tadzik: but we don't have any ETAs on anything
some people are leaving right now, it seems
masak morn', #perl6
dalek rlito: 30e4683 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
Perlito5 - TODO update
JimmyZ The requested URL returned error: 502 while accessing github.com/
masak <moritz> tadzik: but we don't have any ETAs on anything 07:30
masak .oO( what is this, the #perl6 channel? ) :P
moritz masak++
tadzik moritz: ok, I'll be on the move in a few minutes 07:31
should be at Dnipro by 11
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moritz \o/ 07:32
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masak rn: say join "", <92 111 47>>>.chr.join 07:40
camelia rakudo c0814a, niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«\o/␤»
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masak rn: say <92 111 47>>>.chr.join 07:41
camelia rakudo c0814a, niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«\o/␤»
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mathw o/ 09:25
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timotimo ohai 09:49
dalek rlito: f3543c1 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
Perlito5 - js - tweak code formatter
09:51 Creaprog joined
Creaprog Hello 09:51
Aww Hello 09:54
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Creaprog Hello 10:16
Perl6 is the best perl ? 10:17
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grondilu crazedpsyc: define "best" 10:27
crazedpsyc: ^sorry, this was for Creaprog 10:28
dalek rlito: 819d067 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - eval - fix syntax
 10:29
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timotimo jnthn: i think you should click "merge" on pull request number 1 and "close" on pull request number 2 on your Test::Mock project up on github :) 10:49
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dalek rlito: 51901ee | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - Eval - tests
 11:07
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tadzik lizmat: ping 12:01
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dalek rlito: f62bbad | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - Eval - tests; fix Sub
 12:30
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dalek rlito: 39fbeed | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | TODO-perlito5:
Perlito5 - TODO update
 12:38
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pmurias jnthn: ping 13:07
yoleaux 04:17Z <japhb> pmurias: I noticed I was highlighted re: startup time issues with perl6-bench -- Thanks to pmichaud++, perl6-bench goes through some pains to determine both the global *interpreter/VM* startup time, measured by running an empty program many times, and *compile/init* startup time for each scalable test individually, measured by running the test at SCALE=0, as timotimo says. This resulted in much more reliable and comparable results.
preflex yoleaux: you have 2 new messages. '/msg preflex messages' to read them.
pmurias a bot wants to deliver messages to a different bot? 13:10
timotimo yeah
it's become sort of an in-side joke i think? 13:11
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[Coke] I keep asking who runs preflex, but no one answers. 13:28
tempting to just boot him.
timotimo preflex: owner? 13:30
preflex: owner
preflex: .owner
preflex: help
preflex try 'help help' or see 'list' for available commands
timotimo preflex: list
preflex Botsnack: [botsnack]; Cdecl: [cdecl]; 8ball: [8ball]; excuses: [excuse]; Factoid: [+, -, ., ?, delete, get, store]; Help: [help, list]; Karma: [++, --, karma, karmabot, karmatop]; Nickometer: [nickometer]; Nickr: [nickr]; PlokiRE: [re]; Seen: [seen]; Sixst: [6st, ordinal]; Tell: [ask, clear-messages, messages, tell]; Rot13: [rot13]; Quote: [be, quote, remember]; WCalc: [calc, wcalc]; Version:
[version]; XSeen: [xseen]; ZCode: [zdec, zenc]
timotimo huh.
geekosaur try "/whois preflex"... 13:31
timotimo don't see the relevant info
geekosaur not that it wasn't obvious to me just from timing 13:32
[15 09:32] * [preflex] (~preflex@unaffiliated/mauke/bot/preflex): There is no .
look at the cloak
timotimo mauke is not a person i recognize
geekosaur they aren't in here for some reason, I note. active in #perl and #haskell and several other channels though 13:33
timotimo ah, ok
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dalek rlito: 5a122ec | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - grammar - optimize
 13:54
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grondilu rn: say "foo".encode('ascii').WHAT 14:32
camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«(Buf)␤»
..rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«(Blob)␤»
grondilu has the spec been changed or something?
geekosaur recently-ish, yes 14:33
timotimo r: say Blob.^mro 14:34
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«(Blob) (Any) (Mu)␤»
timotimo r: say Buf.^mro
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«(Buf) (Any) (Mu)␤»
timotimo r: say Buf ~~ Blob; say Blob ~~ Buf
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«True␤False␤»
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grondilu rn: sub f(Buf $b) { $b }; say f "foo".encode("ascii") 14:40
camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«Buf.new(...)␤» 14:41
..rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$b'; expected Buf but got Blob instead␤ in sub f at /tmp/tdBEVKAbCo:1␤ in block at /tmp/tdBEVKAbCo:1␤␤»
14:42 Psyche^_ left
grondilu there are quite a lot of functions that take a Buf as argument. They'll have to be changed. Ex. rosettacode.org/wiki/CRC-32#Pure_Perl_6 14:43
grondilu just changed this one already
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alexghacker Is there a way to operate on strings at the Unicode Extended Grapheme Cluster level? (see www.unicode.org/reports/tr29/ ) 15:28
I'm particularly interested in doing so within the context of regex, rules, and grammars 15:29
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not_gerd alexghacker: per spec, that should be the default 15:44
I don't think that'S implemented yet, though
alexghacker ah, I see 15:45
I think that accounts for my confusion
not_gerd perl6 (or parrot - not sure) introduced the concept of NFG, where grapheme clusters get assigned a dynamic codepoint to you can have a fixed-width grapheme-based encoding 15:46
afaik the MoarVM Rakudo backend will default to that string representation 15:47
see www.parrot.org/content/what-nfg-why...ot-have-it 15:48
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alexghacker perl6: say "\c[LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A, COMBINING RING ABOVE]" ~~ m/\c[LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A]/; 15:56
camelia rakudo c0814a, niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«｢A｣␤␤»
alexghacker matching doesn't seem to respect those grapheme boundaries
not_gerd r: say "\c[LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A, COMBINING RING ABOVE]".chars 16:00
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«2␤»
not_gerd should be 1
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alexghacker Is that a problem with how I created the string, or a problem with how the string is interpreted? 16:03
not_gerd alexghacker: it's a bug that I suspect won't be resolved until Rakudo/MoarVM arrives 16:04
lizmat tadzik: pong 16:06
alexghacker not_gerd: thanks
not_gerd I'm not really the best person to answer these questions, but the people who are still lost in Kiev or something ;)
*who are, are 16:07
lizmat is just back from the arms of Morpheus
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alexghacker well then, as long as you cool kids don't mind me hanging out with you for a while, I'll just stay here until the lost are found 16:11
[Coke] alexghacker: welcome aboard.
there are several long-open tickets about how NFG / graphemes are not the default. (mainly because they are not yet I) 16:12
[Coke] scopes out prices for frankfurt. 16:19
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ivanoff Hi all! Can anybody review #76896 test S02-lexical-conventions/sub-block-parsing.t 16:26
dalek ast: c875071 | ivanoff++ | S02-lexical-conventions/sub-block-parsing.t:
#76896 - sub/hash syntax
[Coke] automated run of spec failed on diakopter's run today (first unattended run) - seeing if I can find out wy 16:30
diakopter: if a cronjob failed, what are the odds it's in a log somewhere?
(I have no mail on the box)
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[Coke] looks like git clone was hanging, but now it isn't? will try another automated run in a few minutes 16:33
geekosaur github's having issues again fwiw
[Coke] that would do it. 16:34
pmurias what are the guarantees for nqp::where? 16:39
it's just supposed to be a unique integer
?
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timotimo cue people mocking users of a centralized hosting platform for dvcs 17:26
it is true though, maybe there should be a mirror service for our most important repositories that can act as sort of a drop in replacement 17:27
segomos hubgit.net 17:28
where the reading order is rtl
pmurias timotimo: github's down? 17:33
geekosaur status.github.com/ 17:35
supposedly back at the momnt
tadzik lizmat: nevermind :) 17:37
geekosaur pity there's no .ig tld, or the backup could be moc.buht.ig :) 17:40
timotimo hm) 17:42
m)
masak o/ 17:54
timotimo hey masak 17:58
back home? :)
masak timotimo: no, still in .ua
we had a nice day of seeing sights, drinking nice beer, and eating nice food :) 17:59
now we are sat down for some light-hearted hackathoning with lots of interruptions :)
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segomos geekosaur: lol 18:16
timotimo sounds nice :)
dalek rlito: 31e3bac | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (4 files):
Perlito5 - js - more ampersand tests
 18:19
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[Coke] r: $spaces = -> Int $a { " " x $a}; say $spaces(10); 18:31
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/5sFZIRpZSS␤Variable '$spaces' is not declared␤at /tmp/5sFZIRpZSS:1␤------> $spaces⏏ = -> Int $a { " " x $a}; say $spaces(10␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
[Coke] r: my $spaces = -> Int $a { " " x $a}; say $spaces(10);
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT« ␤»
[Coke] r: my $spaces = -> int $a { " " x $a}; say $spaces(10);
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT« ␤»
timotimo r: my $spaces = &indent.assuming("") 18:32
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tESq5Avoxs␤Undeclared name:␤ &indent used at line 1␤␤»
jnthn evening, #perl6
yoleaux 13 Aug 2013 17:06Z <FROGGS> jnthn: I tried to use a custom ModuleLoader for v5, but something with the context went wrong so that I'm unable to `require` a script and use its subs via indirect lookup
13 Aug 2013 17:07Z <FROGGS> jnthn: so I still need to "hack" rakudo... github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/blob/maste...kudo.patch
13 Aug 2013 19:38Z <japhb> jnthn: Pretty please can you post your talk slides for those of us stuck in the wrong hemisphere.
14 Aug 2013 08:38Z <FROGGS> jnthn: For a regex like / a | b | c /, we could evaluate the three branches in parallel, right? I think this could speed-up parsing a lot...
14 Aug 2013 09:55Z <diakopter> jnthn: *poke*
timotimo r: my $spaces = "".indent(*)
camelia rakudo c0814a: ( no output )
timotimo r: my $spaces = "".indent(*); say spaces(10).perl
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/22QT2MmRQ1␤Undeclared routine:␤ spaces used at line 1␤␤»
timotimo r: my $spaces = "".indent(*); say $spaces(10).perl
camelia rakudo c0814a: OUTPUT«No such method 'postcircumfix:<( )>' for invocant of type 'Str'␤ in block at /tmp/8WCsIucb_a:1␤␤» 18:33
timotimo :o
* doesn't propagate through invocations
[Coke] jeez, jnthn speaks and we are beaten down with a flood of text! ;) 18:34
[Coke] wonders how yap-see-you is going.
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timotimo wonders when the video recordings are going to hit the interwebs 18:35
jnthn is uploading le slajds from his talks :)
nwc10 jnthn: airport no longer sells that vodka 18:36
jnthn wtf!
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nwc10 yes, I couldn't remember its name exactly, but helpful Polish attendee could remember it, and asked, and they have not had it for a bit 18:36
lot of other stuff. And all the imported brand names are overpriced 18:37
jnthn yeah
only other place I found to buy it wsa some huge supermarket in Tallinn
nwc10 that would be a bit of a detour for me :-)
jnthn If you go, be sure to stay in a high rise hotel... :) 18:38
nwc10 is there some amusing surprise that they have? Such as no lifts?
jnthn No, it's just appropriate, 'cus it's a tall inn :P 18:39
timotimo :D
nwc10 jnthn++ # talks full of awesome
Oh
aaargh :-)
masak was, um, efficient at puns this morning
there only needs to be one...
nwc10 checks 6guts. Yes, no previous mention of Promises, Channels, Select, or how they combine 18:40
oh, wait, some on promises. But they aren't fantastically interesting on their own
arnsholt Lots of puns when several sizers are gathered? I'm shocked I tell you, shocked =D
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jnthn Will link my talks from YAPC::EU site in a moment; in the meantime, jnthn.net/articles.shtml is now updated with all the latest slides 18:48
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colomon jnthn++ 18:51
jnthn Links added to act.yapc.eu/ye2013/slides now also
nwc10: Yes, the talk at YAPC::EU was the first time I really presented/explained that work. 18:53
nwc10: Hope your flight back was fine
nwc10 suitably uneventful
jnthn Yay
nwc10 "food" was a packet of pretzels - planes and clouds
jnthn Belgian Beer Cafe was suitably tasty
nwc10 it lives up to the name?
PerlJam nwc10: "suitably uneventful" Was that an unintentional pun? ;) 18:54
nwc10 unintentional
jnthn aye
It has lots of Begina beer on tap, and moar in bottles \o/
PerlJam jnthn++ nice slides
nwc10 jnthn: security theatre queue was about 5 minutes, but passport was 20. Took about 45 minutes from front door to airside. But gates are right nearby. (You probably know this)
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jnthn 20?! ugh 18:55
But yeah, I'd have allowed sufficient time anyways
nwc10 yes. but better aircon and more light that Lisbon's security queue in 2009
jnthn aircon++
timotimo loving the slides so far 18:56
dalek kudo/nom: d14fd44 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/core/Threading.pm:
Up the default thread pool maximum.
nwc10 we had 45 minutes spare before boarding.
jnthn Ah, very comfy
nwc10 taxi right was rapid (and not insanely fast)(But I had no seatbelt)(And some other car got pulled over by a speed trap) 18:58
had traffic been evil, we would not have had 45 minutes
timotimo i found it a bit counterintuitive that you decided to demo the channels with sending a list of values 18:59
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dalek kudo/nom: 5f46018 | tadzik++ | src/vm/jvm/core/Threading.pm:
Fix a typo in the error message.

Ha-ha!		 19:00
timotimo because channels are about lists, so are they flattening or list-of-lists?
jnthn timotimo: You can send whatever you want down a Channel; the impl doesn't enforce a context on the things in the channel at the moment 19:01
If you want to send arrays down there, it's just fine
Or objects, or hashes, or... :) 19:02
nwc10 closures?
jnthn Yes if you're careful :P
nwc10: Just remember that if you pass multiple closures that manipulated outer state you could be in hot water with sharing. 19:03
nwc10 mmmm. food should be in hot water. Not me. I am not food. I will be careful. 19:04
PerlJam jnthn: i'm curious about nth_or_timeout(4), why "last" out of the loop instead of "return $p"? also, does the keep not execute when you do: $p.break(); $p.keep(); because the promise has already been broken?
jnthn As there's no promise that only one thing is pulling from the queueue and executing the closures
nwc10 yes. aha. fun.
jnthn PerlJam: You can't return 'cus you're in an async 19:05
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jnthn The routine returns "immediately", async only schedules that block to run in the thread pool 19:05
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jnthn Um, yes, you're right that it is calling keep after break. D'oh. 19:06
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PerlJam jnthn: I guess I was expected a return-like thingy for async 19:06
er, expecting
jnthn There's not one, at least nothing spec'd.
async in void context needs to actually deliver its exceptions somewhere 19:07
That's on my "loose ends to tie up" list. Like many things. :)
(Answer is that it'll send 'em off to the scheduler, though.) 19:08
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pmurias jnthn: is it possible to cross compile with QRegex::P6Regex? 19:09
jnthn I guess it can be set up... 19:10
I never tried it, but it knows how to work as a standalone thing, so it should be just like setting up NQP to cross-compile, for example. 19:11
pmurias it uses a NQPRoutine at one point 19:12
which can't be serialized
jnthn It..can't?
pmurias well it can, but it is taken from the setting of the compiler 19:13
jnthn oh, hm, I guess it's possible it's never been used to generate bytecode, just in-process
pmurias the thing I actually want to do is run the tests in nqp/t/qregex
jnthn Oh, I never even attempted those until post-bootstrap 19:14
It needs eval really
So I just left them until bootstrap was done and it's easy then :)
It'd need a fairly different harness-y thing to cross-compile them, I suspect
pmurias I would prefer to know my grammars work correctly before bootstraping 19:15
jnthn: I could create a different harnessy-y think which just translates the regexes to nqp code, which I can compile 19:16
jnthn I was comfortable enough with the basic tests in t/nqp and the fact that I had a selfhost that passed t/nqp :)
If you can parse all the t/nqp with your grammar engine running the NQP grammar, probably it works quite well ;) 19:17
But yes, if you like, you can create a different harness
colomon hey, I'm on a slide!
jnthn++ 19:18
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jnthn :) 19:19
timotimo a channel could be used to evaluate code in another thread 19:22
jnthn timotimo: Well, but you could just do an async block
timotimo oh 19:23
i meant in a *specific* other thread
anyway. jnthn, can you figure out why Rakudo::Debugger is failing to run? it failed to build before, but that was just a matter of removing perl6_group (or what is it called?) from the makefile and leaving only perl6_ops (or something like that)
jnthn timotimo: Hm, on Rakudo Parrot, yes? 19:26
ivanoff Hi, everyone! )
jnthn didn't try to do it on JVM yet
ivanoff Anyone knows, how to find video from YAPC::EU 2013?
or where 19:27
r: say 'I\'m alive' 19:28
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«I'm alive␤»
ivanoff ))
timotimo yes, rakudo parrot; didn't look at jvm yet 19:29
i was just assuming it would hit some little roadblock that would leave me completely stumped
pmurias jnthn: arrays in nqp have to provide a .push method? 19:31
timotimo jnthn: did you see my results from turning add/sum/mul_n into add/sub/mul_i if it can be proven to be correct?
nwc10 ivanoff: I don't think that they are up anywhere yet. At least, I've not heard anyone say anything
timotimo jnthn: summary: on one benchmark (two dimensional loop with native ints) it got 300% improvement (yes, 4x more runs per second) on jvm and 30% improvement on parrot 19:32
ivanoff nwc10: Thanks! I found only couple videos, so... still looking for... )) 19:33
jnthn pmurias: Yes; you can nab code from NQPMu.nqp for that (NQPArray class) 19:35
pmurias: It's literally method push($thing) { nqp::push(self, $thing) }
timotimo: Not had chance to loook at that yet
Still catching up a bit after YAPc :) 19:36
pmurias jnthn: it's the only part of the nqp setting that's commented out in nqp-js ;)
jnthn pmurias: ah :)
timotimo my next attempt was to turn lexicals into locals which was supposedly easier on nqp, but i stumbled into some roadblocks there, too ... stopped after a bit of frustration, but if you have a few spare minutes for me some time, i can prepare some targetted questions and get going again
jnthn pmurias: What's it block on, ooc?
pmurias ooc? 19:37
timotimo "out of curiosity"
pmurias I'm using native javascript arrays for nqp arrays.
jnthn oh. 19:38
yes, you actually need the VMArray REPR.
Relied on not only here, but in Rakudo too
pmurias I should propably to that, and worry about performance once everything is working 19:40
FROGGS segomos: you dont override use, you make a module that tells the grammar to switch to your provided one for example 19:41
[Coke] jnthn++ concurrency slides. 19:42
dalek kudo-star-daily: 5283210 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
kudo-star-daily: 3931fbb | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
kudo-star-daily: cdede41 | coke++ | log/ (4 files):
today (automated commit)
segomos i was trying to do that yesterday but didn't have much luck..i was trying with prefix and just a bare sub with export
[Coke] ooh, I'm on a slide, too. whee! 19:46
[Coke] high-fives colomon!
colomon high-fives [Coke]! 19:48
masak high-fives a baby! 19:49
1000awesomethings.com/2008/11/27/88...ng-babies/ 19:51
PerlJam Have you guys looked at your github identicons? 19:53
mine looks like a guy with his hands up as if at gun point.
identicons.github.com/perlpilot.png
jnthn my...what?
PerlJam identicons.github.com/jnthn.png
github did some cute thing for those without gravatars, but it's available for everyone. 19:54
ivanoff :)))
PerlJam identicons.github.com/perl6.png
etc.
[Coke] I got a flying U. 19:55
... or maybe a restaurant bench.
masak I got a guy doing \o/ !!! :) identicons.github.com/masak.png
that's so appropriate! \o/ 19:56
how did they know?!?
tadzik masak: could you upload my facebook photo somewhere? 19:57
masak tadzik: on it.
PerlJam masak: yours kind of looks like a guy dancing 19:58
masak PerlJam: bash.org/?4281
[Coke] identicons.github.com/parrot.png looks like a shot from the old school missle command.
masak [Coke]: *clearly* it's a bird lying down. 20:00
[Coke] identicons.github.com/jnthn.png is probably just all beard.
PerlJam Coke: the negative space resonates ... like a tuning fork ;) 20:01
masak moritz is a three-legged android. 20:02
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not_gerd jnthn++ # talk slides 20:07
masak jnthn++ # making YAPC::EU awesome 20:09
timotimo .o( turing fork ) 20:11
lue identicons.github.com/lue.png ummm... 20:12
rjbs #perl6++ # I continue to struggle to always hug trolls, and when it works, it's the best. 20:13
masak rjbs: well, there are mean trolls and confused trolls. all the ones at YAPC::EU were of the confused kind. even a kind word tends to help with them. 20:15
rjbs Both kinds very often need hugs.
but I agree that one should brush up on trollwatching skills before spreading one's arms
pmurias masak: how did the Perl 7 stuff end? 20:16
masak lue: that's one of these: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hand_cr..._wheel.jpg
rjbs I like to assume that mine is a scary helmet identicons.github.com/rjbs.png — like in twitter.com/GearboxSoftware/status/...32/photo/1 20:17
masak pmurias: the slot dedicated to versioning discussion ended with TimToady, lizmat, and me being asked up on stage into comfy chairs. and then we sat there for 10..12 minutes, talking about Perl 6 and how this year is special because people are seeing some things that Perl 6 brings to the table that Perl 5 doesn't. 20:18
(like real threading, and multi-VM presence)
20:19 locsmif_ left
TimToady is now sitting at LAX 20:19
masak must... not... make pun on that...
jnthn No fishy puns, please 20:20
TimToady please just wait until we're ex-LAX
masak :P
shouldn't the opposite of 'use strict;' be 'use lax;' ? 20:21
tadzik haha 20:24
segomos FROGGS: i was trying to do that yesterday but didn't have much luck..i was trying with prefix and just a bare sub with export 20:27
timotimo identicons.github.com/timo.png - this kind of looks like three people sitting around a table or something
FROGGS segomos: look what v5 does, it needs a rakudo hack atm though (in rakudo.patch), github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/ 20:28
I'm pi: identicons.github.com/froggs.png
masak timotimo: crew cut person with theatre glasses. 20:29
timotimo masak: i don't get it 20:30
jnthn 'night, #perl6 20:35
pmurias 'night
masak timotimo: oh, that's just what I thought your identicon looked like. 20:36
timotimo gnite jnthn :)
masak: i interpreted that correctly, but i cannot see your interpretation 20:37
masak don't worry about it :) 20:38
it's interesting how so few pixels seem to form something meaningful. 20:39
timotimo indeed
masak the left-right symmetry in them seems to help a lot.
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timotimo seems so, yes 20:40
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berekuk is p6mw still a thing? 20:44
last commit is 5 months ago, so I'm not sure 20:45
masak what where what
berekuk github.com/perl6/perl6-most-wanted
masak yes, I think that's still a thing.
berekuk I've been looking at this old idea - questhub.io/realm/meta/quest/512203...a63a000022 20:46
masak I've heard people refer to it more recently than five months ago.
berekuk and if it's still "wanted", I'd create a stencil on QH for it (I'd appreciate a help with phrasing it, btw)
and… while I'm here, maybe more generic question: can anyone help me with list of interesting reusable tasks related to perl6? 20:47
I've got this one: questhub.io/realm/perl/stencil/51de...320000002, but I'm sure there are many more I'm not aware of
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masak berekuk: hm, I think I get it. 20:52
berekuk: maybe "find an old ticket in the #perl6 RT queue and try it on your own Rakudo to see if it's still not fixed" would be one such thing. 20:53
berekuk yes
masak berekuk: or "test a Perl 6 script from Rosetta Code to see if it works"
berekuk yep, sounds good too (and really easy, but that's not a problem)
how about "setup smoke testing"? (not sure if it exists for rakudo) 20:54
timotimo haha, when googling for "play perl" i get two kinds of results: "play perl is awesome and famous!" and "how to play a sound with perl"
[Coke] for the rakudo ones, probably best to start with "things not marked testneeded" and "least recently modified first"
timotimo not "where can i find and use play perl?"
[Coke] tries play perl early on but hasn't been back.
*tried 20:55
timotimo well, there's already a rosettacode data github repo where all scripts are present as files
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timotimo that should make smoke testing easier 20:55
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timotimo just have to write a short little harness for each of the scripts that complains if the result is not as expected 20:55
berekuk timotimo: it's called "questhub" now, and yes, it has SEO issues 20:56
timotimo ah, that's what it is!
masak timotimo: I'm interested in helping with that.
[Coke] timotimo: see roast/rosettacode
which was my horrible initial attempt before that RC repo showed up. 20:57
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berekuk masak: if you register on QH, I'll make you a realm keeper for Perl realm, and you'll be able to add these tasks to the list yourself (here's the full list: questhub.io/realm/perl/stencils, as you can see, it's mostly about perl5, which is a shame) 20:59
timotimo if my train ride tomorrow lasted 10 hours, i would probably do it :P
but it only lasts 1, so i'll read a book instead i guess
berekuk heh 21:00
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masak berekuk: sounds good. I'll register. 21:00
berekuk: done. I'm 'masak' there now. 21:03
berekuk masak: grants, errm, granted, you should see the "New stencil" on stencils page now 21:04
you can also edit other stencils, e.g. "Try Rakudo" one
masak berekuk: yup. I see it. 21:05
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moritz is home again 21:12
timotimo ah, stencils are like a template that you can fill out to create a new quest? 21:13
hm, no, they are more like ... an instruction?
nope, i don't know what they are 21:14
berekuk timotimo: they are both 21:15
you "take" a stencil and get a quest with description which helps you to complete it
if this was a game, they'd just be called "quests" which you take from NPC, but since we already have unique quests (which are just tasks you invent for yourself), it'd be confusing, so I had to invent a new name 21:16
timotimo right 21:19
so if i like a stencil, can i upvote it and every person who creates a quest from it gets that point by default? 21:20
berekuk timotimo: nope, you can't like a stencil
timotimo but stencils do have points at the right, how are they increased? 21:21
berekuk we discussed this before - github.com/berekuk/questhub/issues/126 - and I think it's not a good idea
timotimo also, the flattr button is a bit bugged; the mouseover appears to the right of the page
berekuk realm keeper chooses it (from 1, 2 or 3) :)
timotimo gotta run now
berekuk timotimo: oops, right
thanks, bye :)
timotimo this time i managed to get to the tram stop before the tram 21:27
it was really close last time and this time, too
lue hmm... would it be correct to think of a QH stencil as a typical game's quest, and a QH quest as someone taking the challenge?
berekuk yes 21:28
timotimo good argument on that issue 21:30
berekuk I don't know if it's too late to rename, and "challenge" doesn't sound less template-y to me (but I'm not a native speaker) 21:31
lue if you're up for renaming, may I suggest stencil-->quest or mission, and quest-->goal ? ("It is my goal to complete this quest/mission") 21:32
(not that it's hard to learn what the existing terms mean)
berekuk I might as well replace "goal" with conventional and boring "task" 21:33
timotimo is it hard to get sign up with github going?
berekuk I'm not sure I'm up for renaming, but I know "stencil" word confuses many people
timotimo or is your use of sign up with twitter deeper than just sso?
berekuk no, not very hard. I just didn't paid attention to that task since we got email signups long time ago 21:34
twitter is just for auth and userpic
timotimo i would think a more wordy explanation of stencils on the front page would be a very good start 21:35
berekuk is the sidebar explanation confusing too?
the one on questhub.io/realm/perl/stencils
timotimo just mentioning the word stencil rather than just the icon would maybe be enough 21:36
berekuk oh, right, thanks, that could help
timotimo chore or errands could be a different term although they have negative connotations to me 21:37
but yes, the sidebar explanation is good
berekuk heh, we went through many words (questhub.io/realm/meta/quest/51db41...6100002b), they all sucked 21:38
"stencil" just sucked a bit less
timotimo i likevthe way stencil sounds 21:41
it is such a physical word
berekuk yes. the issue is with connotations, people make assumptions about how it should work, and it's not intuitive 21:44
maybe I should've just chosen the random string of characters as a name :)
lue r: say ("a".."z").roll(6) 21:45
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«g l h t a g␤»
masak 'night, #perl6 21:46
lue "challenge" (which you mentioned earlier) seems like a nice alternative if necessary. But "stencil" works fine, after a small explanation. 21:47
♞, masak o/
berekuk lue: the issue is that you can't tell which one of "challenge" and "quest" is a template and which one is an instance 21:48
lue Hm. I can see why it was a bother for you guys to name these things :) . 21:51
timotimo i get to choose a username after i click "sign in with twitter", rights
?
berekuk yep 21:52
timotimo: "sign in with email" uses persona, so it's SSO too, if you prefer it (if you're on gmail, you won't have to invent the new password either way) 21:53
timotimo i don't really use gmail, although i do have it. 21:54
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timotimo there's still lots of mention of "Play Perl" on the about page, most of them are from the titles of articles, but there's "Play Perl Realm" twice on the page; i suggest replacing "Play Perl Realm" with just "the Perl Realm" and adding a short paragraph about how questhub was called play perl before above the testimonials 22:04
22:04 Mouq left
berekuk oh thank you, that's right, I renamed the realm and forgot to edit /about 22:05
timotimo :) 22:06
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timotimo there's a up/down button and a ? button in the description edit field that do nothing for me 22:08
(well, the up/down button flips when i click it)
22:09 bluescreen10 left
timotimo nqp: say(nqp::div_i(1, 2)) 22:09
camelia nqp: OUTPUT«0␤»
timotimo nqp: say(1 / 2)
camelia nqp: OUTPUT«0.5␤»
berekuk timotimo: yeah, I'm really sorry, I broke it (questhub.io/realm/meta/quest/520136...20d000004) and was too busy with YAPC to fix it 22:12
timotimo don't worry about it :)
berekuk will fix it tomorrow
timotimo i thought it might have been one of these pesky bugs that you only see in one browser if it has one exact configuration etc etc. 22:13
berekuk actually
up/down button should work
it's "?" button that's broken
up/down starts working if you enter any text, it switches the preview box
timotimo er, the "start quest" button doesn't work :o 22:14
berekuk now *that* shouldn't happen 22:15
have you selected a realm on the left?
timotimo turned off adblock plus, reloaded, still won't react to clicks
ooooh
no, i have not
oh my, that needs a bigger indicator for dumb n00bs like mee 22:16
berekuk thanks, accepted as a quest :) - questhub.io/realm/meta/quest/520d53...477e0000c0
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timotimo the ui looks very clean and nice, though. may just be because i haven't tired of bootstrap pages :D 22:22
berekuk timotimo: thanks :) I'm trying to gradually rewrite all bootstrap bits, one by one 22:26
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timotimo i've got a couple more quests to add, but i need to sleep so i can catch my train "early" tomorrow 22:28
should we perhaps add a "join #perl6 on freenode and chat about your experiences and expectations" to the "try rakudo perl6" stencil? 22:31
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berekuk timotimo: I don't think it should be mandatory, but if it's just an advice, then good 22:32
I made you a realm keeper too :)
(I don't like how many of us are there already, and that's not what I had in mind, "keeper" is more of a moderator position, but whatever.) 22:33
so you can edit it yourself
timotimo oh god, now i have to come up with a good wording of it :| 22:34
i'll do it tomorrow or later
for now, i'll really go to bed.
berekuk good night 22:35
timotimo in the players list, the "open quests" number on the right is black, but on the stencils list it is orange ... minor nitpick :)
22:39 pmurias left 22:43 benabik joined 23:05 PZt joined 23:16 BenGoldberg joined
BenGoldberg .ud require 'errno.pl' 23:28
yoleaux ENOTFOUND
dalek ast: 9d65308 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-names/is_default.t:
Unfudge now passing tests
 23:30
BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role { method infinite() { True } }; .say for @a; 23:33
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«This type does not support elems␤ in method REIFY at src/gen/CORE.setting:7492␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6718␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6810␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:67…
BenGoldberg Why does that happen?
dalek kudo/nom: 144a3f8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Make Nil assignment on hash/array elements with defaults just work
 23:35
lizmat sleep&
23:37 stevan_ joined 23:42 stevan_ left
grondilu n: say my @ := (gather .take for ^10) but role {} 23:44
camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
grondilu rn: say my @ := (gather .take for ^10) but role {}
camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
..rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«This type does not support elems␤ in method REIFY at src/gen/CORE.setting:7492␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6718␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:68…
grondilu rn: say (gather .take for ^10) but role {}
camelia niecza v24-88-g1f87209: OUTPUT«0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9␤»
..rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«This type does not support elems␤ in method REIFY at src/gen/CORE.setting:7492␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6718␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:68…
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BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role {}; say 'alive'; 23:48
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«alive␤»
BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role {}; say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role { method infinite() { True } }; .say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/hExenQrZZP␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/hExenQrZZP:1␤------> le { method infinite() { True } }; .say ⏏@a;␤ expecting any of:␤ method arguments␤ postfix␤ infix stopper… 23:49
BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role { method infinite() { True } }; say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«This type does not support elems␤ in method REIFY at src/gen/CORE.setting:7492␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6718␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:68…
BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role { method infinite() { False } }; say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
BenGoldberg r: my @a := gather { .take for ^Inf } but role {}; say @a; 23:51
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 23:52
BenGoldberg r: my @a := (gather map { .take } ^Inf) but role {}; say @a; 23:53
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'map'; none of these signatures match:␤:(&code, *@values)␤ in sub map at src/gen/CORE.setting:2213␤ in sub thread_junction at src/gen/CORE.setting:2826␤ in method AUTOTHREAD at src/gen/CORE.setting:2854␤ in sub map at src/gen/CORE.setting:2213␤ in …
BenGoldberg r: my @a := (gather map { *.take } ^Inf) but role {}; say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'map'; none of these signatures match:␤:(&code, *@values)␤ in sub map at src/gen/CORE.setting:2213␤ in sub thread_junction at src/gen/CORE.setting:2826␤ in method AUTOTHREAD at src/gen/CORE.setting:2854␤ in sub map at src/gen/CORE.setting:2213␤ in …
BenGoldberg r: my @a := (gather map -> { take * } ^Inf) but role {}; say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'map'; none of these signatures match:␤:(&code, *@values)␤ in sub map at src/gen/CORE.setting:2213␤ in sub thread_junction at src/gen/CORE.setting:2826␤ in method AUTOTHREAD at src/gen/CORE.setting:2854␤ in sub map at src/gen/CORE.setting:2213␤ in …
BenGoldberg r: my @a := (map { $_ }, ^Inf) but role {}; say @a; 23:54
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
BenGoldberg r: my @a := (map { $_ }, ^Inf) but role {method infinite { True }}; say @a;
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«This type does not support elems␤ in method REIFY at src/gen/CORE.setting:7492␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6718␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:6705␤ in method reify at src/gen/CORE.setting:68…
23:55 berekuk left
BenGoldberg r: my @a := say (map { $_ }, ^Inf).infinite; 23:57
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«Nil␤Type check failed in binding; expected 'Positional' but got 'Bool'␤ in block at /tmp/dJ1JQrfWfl:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg r: my @a := say ((map { $_ }, ^Inf).infinite);
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«Nil␤Type check failed in binding; expected 'Positional' but got 'Bool'␤ in block at /tmp/a5V2bZBDHa:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg r: say ((map { $_ }, ^Inf).infinite);
camelia rakudo 5f4601: OUTPUT«Nil␤»

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