»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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jnthn *sigh* a bunch of Windows batch file learnings later... 00:16
TimToady my condolences 00:17
maybe you should've written it in Perl :P
jnthn :P 00:18
timotimo if only at spectest time we had some kind of perl 6 interpreter available ... 00:20
jnthn OK, now (at least on my box) the socket tests don't hang. And all but 6 pass. 00:22
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dalek ast: 9d9bc71 | jnthn++ | S32-io/IO-Socket-INET. (2 files):
Fixes socket tests on Moar on Windows.
 00:24
kudo-star-daily: 8dc3a7f | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 00:25
rl6-roast-data: b524262 | coke++ | / (3 files):
today (automated commit)
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japhb .tell smls That mockup looks really good. Aside from my general feeling that the green has been a bit too chartreuse for a while, I think it's excellent work. +1 to make it so. 01:00
yoleaux japhb: I'll pass your message to smls.
jnthn japhb: You've got server sockets in Moar now too 01:01
dalek p: 84497ec | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
Get Moar with server sockets; map setinputlinesep.
 01:09
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dalek kudo/nom: d9c8083 | jnthn++ | src/core/IO/Socket.pm:
Fix recv with no length specified.
 01:11
kudo/nom: 7f0cc2b | jnthn++ | / (2 files):
Bump to Moar and NQP with server socket bits.
pippo r: my $s = 'ooooooooooooooo'; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; 01:14
yoleaux 12 Feb 2014 08:17Z <FROGGS> pippo: Yeah, I was fearing that running the loop would cause this... So we possible would just need to root it, but my gut feeling says that this issue is part of a bigger problem
camelia rakudo-parrot f35ca0, rakudo-jvm f35ca0, rakudo-moar f35ca0: OUTPUT«o␤»
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pippo r: my $s = "ooooooooooooooo"; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; 01:16
camelia rakudo-parrot f35ca0, rakudo-jvm f35ca0, rakudo-moar f35ca0: OUTPUT«o␤»
pippo r: my $s = "Hellooooooooooooooo"; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; 01:17
camelia rakudo-parrot f35ca0, rakudo-jvm f35ca0, rakudo-moar f35ca0: OUTPUT«Hello␤»
pippo On my latest git of JVM and Moar running my $s = "Hellooooooooooooooo"; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; gives Hellooooooooooooooo!! 01:20
jnthn Hm 01:21
I have a HEAD MoarVM Rakudo here and...
> my $s = "Hellooooooooooooooo"; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s;
Hello 01:22
pippo jnthn: use the RPL and do it once. Then up arrow and enter to repeat. What do you get? 01:25
jnthn pippo: Just did it ten times; Hello consistently. 01:27
pippo r: my $s = 'Helloooooooooooooooo'; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; my $s = 'Helloooooooooooooooo'; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; 01:29
camelia rakudo-parrot f35ca0, rakudo-jvm f35ca0, rakudo-moar f35ca0: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Redeclaration of symbol $s␤ at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤ ------> oooooooo'; $s ~~ s/o+/o/; say $s; my $s ⏏= 'Helloooooooooooooooo'; $s ~~ s/o+/o/;␤Hello␤Hello␤»
[Coke] right. REPL is more forgiving about redeclarations, IIRC. 01:31
pippo jnthn: do not know why but here it does not work the second time in the REPL. Strange... I'll recompile from a fresh git... Thank you and good night. 01:32
jnthn Yeah, sleep is a good idea :) 01:33
'night, #perl6 01:34
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masak 'night, jnthn 01:34
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Mouq perl6: say -1 +> 1 02:24
camelia rakudo-parrot f35ca0, rakudo-jvm f35ca0, rakudo-moar f35ca0, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«-1␤»
Mouq perl6: say -100 +> 1 02:25
camelia rakudo-parrot f35ca0, rakudo-jvm f35ca0, rakudo-moar f35ca0, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«-50␤»
TimToady grondilu: I disagree with your last change; qu was intended to be for the users as much as for the module writer 02:34
like the 'set' or 'bag' helpers 02:35
lue TimToady: qu? 02:36
TimToady rosettacode.org/mw/index.php?title=...cid=206201 02:37
why force the user to say Quaternion.new() 02:38
I just suspect that if you're doing a few Quaternions, you're doing a lot of 'em 02:40
lue imagines Quaternion.new() has arguments for it that are similar to those of the *_cast<> family in C++ 02:42
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Mouq Hey, #perl6, any ideas for shortening this? codegolf.stackexchange.com/questio...995/#21006 02:54
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...l?id=21006
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TimToady use lsb or msb? 02:59
Mouq TimToady: ...yes. Yes. That would probably be a good idea -_- 03:01
TimToady: Thank you
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TimToady r: say 0.msb 03:05
camelia rakudo-parrot 7f0cc2, rakudo-jvm 7f0cc2, rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
TimToady r: say -1.msb
camelia rakudo-parrot 7f0cc2, rakudo-jvm 7f0cc2, rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady r: say -1.lsb 03:06
camelia rakudo-parrot 7f0cc2, rakudo-jvm 7f0cc2, rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«0␤»
grondilu TimToady: I thought this would make it more analogous to Complex. 03:07
the standard way to create a complex is to either use Complex.new or the i suffix. 03:08
so as soon as we have the j and k suffixes, we don't need qu
lue grondilu: there's no literal for Quaternions defined, unlike Complex's <1+2i> . qu() seems to be close to what we want in that case. 03:09
Mouq TimToady: Actually, I thought .lsb or .msb would make everything easier, but it seems to be less helpful than I'd hoped 03:15
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TimToady if the idea is to treat it as always unsigned, maybe +& with 2^64-1 or so first? 03:17
well, % 2**64 might be shorter
grondilu lue: there's no quaternion literal, but since the task defines j and k postfixes, there are algebraic expressions such as 1+2i+3j, which is arguably very close to a quaternion literal. 03:18
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lue yeah, though I suspect there's a reason TimToady didn't think constant folding was good enough :) 03:19
grondilu fine, I'll change back the task.
does it have to be a multi, though? 03:20
Mouq TimToady: Hrm.. The OP seems to be saying it should be signed, but wasn't very specific. I think I'm simply going to remove my answer for now
timotimo do we have something like "is there a character available to be read" on moarvm? or a kind of select? 03:23
for file handles and such
i kind of think IO::Handle should have something like that. or maybe a getc that doesn't block or something like that 03:30
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Mouq I doubt I'll complete this, so here: gist.github.com/Mouq/9029616 05:12
I had a solution that was correct, of course, but it wasn't as much fun as this version 05:15
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moritz \o 06:41
m: say Int.^parents 06:59
camelia rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«␤»
moritz huh?
m: say Int.^parents(:all)
camelia rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«(Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
moritz oh
m: say Int.^parents(:all, :tree)
camelia rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«(Cool) (Any) (Mu)␤»
moritz m: say Int.^parents(:all, :tree).perl
camelia rakudo-moar 7f0cc2: OUTPUT«([Cool, [Any, [Mu]]],)␤»
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dalek c: 0d938ff | moritz++ | lib/objects.pod:
Add some links
 07:19
c: 861e01f | moritz++ | lib/objects.pod:
MOP: can, parents
c: cbe2e65 | moritz++ | lib/objects.pod:
MOP: mention that .^methods actually returns a list of method objects
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FROGGS_ good morning 07:38
moritz good morning FROGGS_ 07:41
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FROGGS_ huh, perl6-m IO-Socket-INET.t only fails test 34 and 36 on linux... 07:48
moritz t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 41 Failed: 21) 08:00
Failed tests: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 23
25, 27, 29, 31-32, 34, 36, 38, 40
that what I get (also linux)
oh
my rakudo is too old
never mind
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FROGGS_ the IO-Socket-INET.t would pass if we'd loop in IO::Socket.read like we do for jvm, but I leave it untouched because I am not sure how jnthn++ wants it to happen 09:23
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grondilu linux here. IO-Socket-INET.t passes all but 34 ane 35. FWW 09:41
s/ane/and
(with perl6-m, that is)
FROGGS_ mine failed 34 and 36 09:42
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FROGGS_ easy to fix though 09:43
grondilu details: gist.github.com/grondilu/9031858 09:44
oh sory, that was 34 nd 36 indeed
FROGGS_ yeah, that matches
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[Sno] I heard from liz at niederrhein.pm that there is a MoarVM "released" and a rakudo-star based on it? 09:59
is that early early adopter (I don't find something on rakudo.org/) 10:00
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FROGGS_ [Sno]: the module installer does not work yet on moar, and there should be nativecall support to support DBIish module 10:02
[Sno]: so you can build rakudo on moar, but you can't play well with modules yet 10:03
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[Sno] thanks - that I probably don't package this version :) 10:05
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masak antenoon, #perl6 10:22
FROGGS_ hi masak 10:23
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timotimo hunts moar memory wastage 10:35
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timotimo is confused by MVMString 10:45
FROGGS_ ===CONFUSED===
timotimo either this is wrong, or i just can't make sense out of it. 10:55
it seems like the string comparison code will only work if one of the two strings is a 32bit string and the other is an 8bit string 10:57
in both directions, but not when both of them are the same type
wtf :(
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timotimo i think i'll lie down again >_< 10:59
github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/blob/mast...ops.c#L184 ← in the mean time ... whhhaaaaa??
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moritz ok, I can reproduce that the socket tests 34 and 36 fail on linux 11:30
perlpunks.de/paste/show/5300a184.6d9a.1a3 11:31
jnthn moritz: They fail on Windows too. 11:38
moritz: I wanted to do some research to see if they're kosher... 11:39
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FROGGS_ jnthn: well, it is just that one requested something bigger than chunksize, no? 11:43
moritz just ftr, they pass on the JVM 11:44
jnthn recv on Linux appears to take a MSG_WAITALL flag that determines if it shuld wait for enough data to satisfy the amount requested, or block until connection close. The open group have the same explanation.
moritz not sure if that means anything
jnthn recv in Perl 5 also takes flags
Presumably one of them would be MSG_WAITALL too 11:45
The thing is that some use cases really don't want to block
FROGGS_ yeah
jnthn You'd like to .recv and get what's there 11:46
Not hang around waiting.
FROGGS_ but I don't wanna get a chunk either when there is already more 11:48
moritz maybe we should really expose those flags to the user 11:50
jnthn In the test, the server *deliberately* sleeps for a second between sending each packet. 11:51
There's certainly not "already more" :)
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jnthn Well, currently we have this: 11:52
method recv (Cool $chars = $Inf, :$bin? = False) {
We could make it so a plain .recv means "give me back the next packat worth's of data" 11:53
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jnthn And if you .recv($chars) (which is really .recv($bytes) in :bin mode) then that's your "I really want that amount" indicator 11:54
FROGGS_ +1 11:55
jnthn Oh, the test in question uses .read also... 11:56
So maybe it's just read that should get the "wait" semantics? 11:57
Lemme try that. 11:58
yeah, that makes it pass :) 11:59
dalek kudo/nom: 385ae4e | jnthn++ | src/core/IO/Socket.pm:
Make read have wait semantics, like elsewhere.

Unbusts the last failing sockets tests on Moar.		 12:01
FROGGS_ jnthn: umm, I think there should be an #?if !parrot instead 12:02
jnthn oh, darn
dalek kudo/nom: 230a54b | jnthn++ | src/core/IO/Socket.pm:
Fix conditional comp mess-up; FROGGS++.
 12:03
vendethiel a few typo I noticed in S05/6, where to pr ? 12:04
jnthn vendethiel: perl6/specs repo 12:06
vendethiel seems like I can't do it from gh web interface
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newbie_Perl6_ I have some ideas, some suggestions. Change the regex modifiers :i to :C, :m to :M. Use the negative meaning of uppercase letters, just as the negative meaning of \D, \W etc. 12:21
nwc10 are the spectest percentages going to look better this evening? 12:26
jnthn nwc10: Should do, due to passing socket tests :) 12:27
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jnthn newbie_Perl6_: Even if that is a good idea (I'm not sure, :i and :m are culturally well engrained, and :c has a meaning unrelated to case), it's probably a bit late to be changing things like that. 12:29
newbie_Perl6_ Thank you for your reply. 12:30
I think,:ignorecase and :ignoremark have some kind of negative meaning. 12:31
jnthn Well, with colonpairs the negation syntax is :!foo
newbie_Perl6_ Understanded. 12:32
jnthn I tend to see the things you put before regexes as tweaks to the default semantics, though. 12:33
newbie_Perl6_ I just think, :m as the acronym of :ignoremark, :c as the acronym of :ignorecase, but :c already uses as the acronym of :continue. 12:38
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newbie_Perl6_ I have not some deep meaning. 12:38
grondilu well done guys 12:40
$ prove -e perl6-m t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t
t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-INET.t .. ok
All tests successful.
jnthn phew :)
grondilu: Linux? Or something else?
grondilu linux 12:41
jnthn k
jnthn hops an OSX user will pop up with a positive/negative at some point :)
uh, hopes 12:42
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vendethiel damn, does somebody have ftp.heanet.ie/mirrors/fosdem-video/...today.webm with a little better mic maybe ? 12:51
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nwc10 jnthn: 34 and 36 fail. I don't have time to investigate - I am required to go out and feed the ducks: paste.scsys.co.uk/306601 12:56
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nwc10 that was OS X. Specifically Snow Leopard 12:57
jnthn nwc10: That was the failure mode before my Rakudo commit a few moments ago.
(On Windows and Linux also.)
Are you at HEAD?
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pippo vendethiel: look here irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-02-08#i_8253359 13:10
vendethiel: the beginning is not good but afterwards it improoves very much. 13:11
vendethiel pippo: erm. thanks. Not sure how you got my call, but I'll thank the internet gods
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grondilu fg 13:45
ah wrong terminal, sorry
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moritz www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles...25367.html 14:33
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masak moritz: interesting reading. 15:03
moritz: reminds me of zefram's talk last YAPC::EU.
timotimo gets a little bit frustrated with moarvm for the moment
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masak wow, some people really like inheritance: stackoverflow.com/questions/2169219...from-listt 15:26
I think the confusion behind that SO question is connected to a certain kind of thinking about how OO "should" behave. 15:28
(a kind of thinking that I no longer subscribe to)
moritz masak: in my early OO days my thoughts were quite similar
(partially because nobody taught me better, and I didn't really know why my own class designs went wrong so spectacularly) 15:29
masak maybe a person *has* to start learning OO (and modeling) from that direction, I dunno.
or maybe just a small number of people get it right from the start.
I'd like to find a name for the kind of thinko that leads to that kind of SO question.
something like "real-world modeling over-attachment". 15:30
but that doesn't abbreviate nicely :)
moritz I think a good reason is that many OO books don't include many examples for good design
which is no surprise if you start with class Dog is Mammal { ... }
timotimo heh. 15:31
masak yeah, coming up with good examples is hard.
moritz I noticed :-)
masak even books that are good tend to, somewhere, contain an *apology* of the form "I know this is oversimplified, but I had to pare things down significantly because it's a book and because I want to show principles, not make a real-world example"
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arnsholt Teaching is really hard 15:32
jnthn In one course I wrote there was some inheritance...but by the end of the course it'd been refactored into composition...
masak well, I'm coming around strongly to the idea that there are two disjunct forms of teaching.
there's "lies to children"/"it's simple, look" 15:33
and there's "explanations to grownups"/"let me tell you the gory details"
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masak I tend to keep that distinction in mind when developing Beginner-level and Intermediate-level courses at Edument. 15:34
moritz is pretty bad at beginner-level teaching 15:35
masak top answer at HN has an interesting point, as well: "Do you want to be able to pass in Team for every function that currently asks for List<T>? Because that is what you are stating through the act of subclassing."
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nwc10 jnthn: I thought that I was on HEAD, but clearly I wasn't as I am now and they all pass 15:38
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FROGGS_ cool! 15:39
so win32, linux and mac is fine :o)
timotimo \o/ 15:40
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ajr_ One of the problems of teaching is knowing the subject too well. Passing from "Unconscious Incompetence" (not knowing what you don't know), through "Conscious Incompetence", (knowing what you don't know), to "Conscious Competence" (knowing what you know), to "Uncoscious Competence", (being able to do it without thinking), we forget what was difficult in the first stages. 16:06
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timotimo aye. 16:07
ajr_ There's an optimum level of competence for a teacher, which I suspect is just slightly ahead of the students. 16:08
Sometimes, of course, the students contribute to the teacher's knowledge. (See Feynman on the subject.) 16:09
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masak ajr_: I think it's simply important to be able to remember, in sufficient detail, what it was like not to know the subject matter. 16:17
arnsholt Yeah. That's really hard though 16:18
ajr_ Right. That's not so hard if you learned the subject recently, (and had some difficulties doing so), but there's such a state as being too good at it. 16:19
timotimo .o(amnesia: a teacher for pigs)
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moritz well, if the teacher isn't ahead far enough of the students, she might share the same confusion as the students 16:29
which is one of the reasons that students flock around the luminaries in a field 16:30
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masak swapping between the teachers and students' point of view carries some of the highest rewards for me when I'm teaching. it's extremely tiring, but also satisfying. 16:39
it's a rare privilege to be allowed write access to people's brains :>
moritz w 17 16:40
sorry, forgot that slash :)
timotimo moritz: you should try weechat, you can hit alt-j 1 7 instead of typing /w 17 16:41
masak :)
masak should try weechat too
raiph I'd say recent brain science increasingly supports the supposedly disproven notion that many fundamental dichotomies of human experience, including distinctions in teaching/learning modalities like lies/details, fairly directly correspond to the distinct perspectives and interwoven contributions to consciousness of folks' left and right cerebral he
mispheres
timotimo raiph: i have no idea how to interpret that piece of knowledge
moritz timotimo: esc+u also works in irssi; I just don't always use that feature
timotimo moritz: yeah, but that takes away the whole second row of keys on your keyboard :P
raiph timotimo: I suspect that's your left hemisphere balking :) 16:42
moritz raiph: what does that mean?
timotimo :D
hoelzro timotimo: done anything with the Qt creator highlighting yet? 16:43
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raiph classic example from, I think, the late 80s: lady has her corpus collosum cut; asked "is your left hand numb?"; is shown 'yes' and 'no'; asked to point to correct answer; what happened? her left and right arms fought; which won and why? 16:45
arnsholt Oooh, the Object types corresponding to Java's native number types all inherit from a single superclass \o/
That's one annoying switch block I don't have to write
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masak raiph: I'm reminded of Julian Jaynes's "Bicameral Mind" theory. 16:48
raiph: blog.plover.com/brain/Jaynes.html 16:49
ajr_ "The Bicameral Mind" was fascinating, but it seemed too recent and too fast for such a profound change. 16:50
geekosaur the naïve one was disproven. the reality turns out to be a lot more complex (unsurprisingly) and brain hemisphere does play into it... but not the way the naïve one claims
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ajr_ When teaching a new topic, it's important to relate it to something the student already knows, (if possible). 16:53
raiph jayne's theory was incredibly speculative, contains major errors and appeared in the 60s.
ajr_: there's a core issue -- what someone knows and whether they know they know. 16:54
ajr_: does Joe know he saw a saw? www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv4K5aStdU
ajr_ It's impossible to process a completely new experience; it has to be repeated to be comprehensible. That's why it's much easier to teach a third programming language than a first one. 16:55
raiph: yes, and also the form in which one knows it. Try communicating a physical skill verbally; you'll almost certainly omit some very important features.. 16:56
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moritz masak: that link is fascinating; I could never have gotten the idea that so much culture could have been created without consciousness 16:58
masak yeah, it's a wacky idea. 16:59
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raiph michael gazzaniga (main guy in video I linked) is a very well respected brain scientist; his stuff is about excellent science driven by experimental evidence rather than highly speculative stuff like jaynes' (not saying to what degree I think Jaynes is wrong, right, crazy, or whatever, just that there's much more solid science on this topic which i 17:03
s not wacky)
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masak *nod* 17:05
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raiph masak: have you read TMAHE? www.iainmcgilchrist.com/comments.asp#content 17:07
timotimo hoelzro: what does "anything" mean in this case?
hoelzro timotimo: any work whatsoever =) 17:08
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timotimo didn't you see my stuff i posted yesterday? :) 17:08
i.imgur.com/1pCDtco.png?1
github.com/timo/perl6-kate-syntax
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hoelzro no, I hadn't! 17:09
very nice!
timotimo feel free to finish my work 17:10
it's super crappy at the moment :)
hoelzro timotimo: I can't make any promises; the next week or two will be hectic
but I'll take an invite to the quest =)
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timotimo \o/ 17:11
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arnsholt jnthn: How heavy-weight are CallSiteDescriptors? Better to create one for a callback type and reuse it, or just create new ones for each invocation? 17:13
masak raiph: I hadn't, but it's now on my wish list.
jnthn arnsholt: Not too bad, but I'd still re-use it. 17:14
arnsholt: Unless it's a real pain to do so.
arnsholt Nah, the callback handler oboject carries around a fair chunk of state already, so that's not a problem
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moritz subscribes to MJD's blog 17:17
raiph masak: 12 minute version: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFs9WO2B8uI 17:20
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hoelzro timotimo: I like the way you grab the operator list 17:58
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timotimo :) 17:58
i was like "nope, not going to do this by hand"
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hoelzro =) 17:59
that syntax file is actually pretty simple 18:02
bravo kate folk 18:03
timotimo it may be simple, but i had a hard time wrapping my head around how it exactly operates 18:04
anyway, i'm glad you're enjoying it! makes it easier for you to finish my shoddy work :)
hoelzro heh 18:07
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hoelzro "hoelzro: director of syntax highlighting" 18:07
timotimo :D
has a certain ring to it, doesn't it
tadzik Grammar, Lights, Actions! 18:10
moritz wonders if somebody has hacked avar's twitter account 18:15
timotimo who is that? 18:17
moritz a perl hacker who used to be active in Perl 6 community as well
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moritz always feels that the question who somebody is actually deserves a 2-hour explanation 18:18
avar moritz: I think I just hacked my own account.
tadzik :)
moritz avar: do explain
avar I was uploading some skiing videos from this week: www.youtube.com/playlist?feature=e...cGh9NHiny1 18:19
Apparently I don't understand social thingies and my youtube is bound to my twittertube
Although I guess I could use it for that spam, not like I use it for anything else :)
moritz avar: if it's any consolation, I wouldn't have expected that either
tadzik FROGGS_: ooooh. I just saw 20bd2341081207 on panda/moar-support 18:21
it explains _so_ _many_ _things_ :)
avar moritz: If you want to follow me on twitter my alter-ego is much more exciting so far: twitter.com/_IcelandMan 18:22
tadzik oh, nevermind
I misread it
avar beams away 18:23
tadzik HOLY BATMAN
panda is so crazy fast on moarvm, it may actually make using it pleasant rather than painful
copying files is still slow tho
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timotimo how do we copy files, ooc? 18:25
shouldn't the operating system do the heavy lifting for us?
and is panda actually contacting the server to get the project list?
tadzik hard to say, as bootstrap fails with STable deserialisation conflict 18:26
timotimo if it's relying on wget or some local cache to be pre-socket-moar-compatible, that may cause a bunch of fastness
tadzik it's all using IO.copy, in a file-find loop
and for some reason that's annoyingly slow
although the bug with copying the entire .git/ may still be there...
timotimo hehe.
yeah, many small files. 18:27
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raydiak morning 18:37
yoleaux 15 Feb 2014 22:19Z <smls> raydiak: I've made some mockups showing how I think the structure and design of doc.perl6.org could be improved further: imgur.com/a/y1dHo -- What do you think?
raydiak .tell smls I think you did an awesome job, though I also would consider a different book icon. also, the colors are still up in the air, so feel free to play more with them. many people don't like the current combinations, and I'm not very sold on them myself. make sure you get moritz++'s input too. smls++! 18:40
yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to smls.
benabik smls++ 18:41
timotimo \o/
raydiak .tell smls as for the structure, layout, etc, my first impression is that it is quite well-considered :)
yoleaux raydiak: I'll pass your message to smls. 18:42
raydiak ugh. is winter over yet? :P 18:49
benabik Yes, south of the equator.
gfldex it was 10C here in germany ther whole day
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raydiak a week or so ago it was about -25C here, counting wind chill 18:50
gfldex the total amount of cold on the planet seams to have a limit 18:51
raydiak I can only hope
weather permitting, several times a week I usually drive to the edge of town and run around in the hills and trees and jump off big rocks like a wild animal. it's part of what keeps me sane. being cooped up sitting in a chair all day *really* starts to wear on me by the end of the cold season 18:53
timotimo like an animal? that sounds like fun 18:54
raydiak it is, quite. basically freerunning out in the woods
other times I balance on fallen trees and practice martial arts, or just walk peacefully and appreciate the immense amount of plant and animal life I'm surrounded by 18:55
timotimo :3
raydiak has a viable exit plan for the zombie apocalypse :) 18:57
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arnsholt raydiak: Cross-country skiing is a good way to get out and about in the cold season 18:57
Perhaps not that well suited to running like an animal, though =)
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raydiak I'd love to try skiing some day...and snowboarding, and a bunch of other things 18:58
but for now I'm constrained to activities which are free or nearly so
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raydiak also really need to look for more clients or a traditional job, once weather permits 19:00
guess I'm whiny today :) 19:01
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timotimo gist.github.com/timo/41d9eb48aea43a48d35a - happy scrolling 19:05
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raydiak p6doc.cyberuniverses.com/ # does this arrangement of colors look better than what is currently on doc.perl6.org? 19:09
timotimo i think so 19:11
raydiak it still has the green next to the yellow, but now it's on the footer instead, which I kinda want less contrast around anyway, and the header is blue like perl6.org's home page 19:12
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FROGGS_ hmmm, I like the footer but not the header :/ 19:15
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raydiak FROGGS_: did you like the green header more? or neither one? 19:18
FROGGS_ I like the the green header but not the three bars it had 19:19
raydiak three bars?
FROGGS_ in the preview where there was that book on the left
raydiak oh, that was smls' mockup...none of that actually exists yet, I'm just working on getting the colors right still
FROGGS_ yeah... I like it but I think it could be a bit "cleaner" imgur.com/a/y1dHo 19:20
raydiak it looks like he just went with the colors we have live right now and focused on the layout and structure, which is probably not the colors we will have in the end 19:21
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FROGGS_ I love that camelia watermark and the overall layout in his mockup though 19:21
raydiak yep, it looks a lot more like a real website 19:23
FROGGS_ exactly
raydiak I'm basically just cleaning and tweaking today (the things I said I'd do yesterday), so I can have this step taken care of, and just take it easy for a few days...burning myself out, RL is getting stressful 19:27
clear my head, and come back fresh :) 19:28
FROGGS_ that sounds like a good plan :o)
lue FROGGS_: is it possible that the header and main box border are messing you up because complementary colors?
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FROGGS_ lue: I think it is just that kind of blue that does not look right to me 19:29
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lue I don't mind that blue, though it looks... interesting next to the yellow. Perhaps switching the colors of the main box and footer box? 19:30
raydiak lue: you think the green border would look okay next to the blue header? 19:31
lue
.oO(Web Design: where bikeshedding is the only thing to do.)
raiph masak: The Master and His Emissary Introduction chapter is online: www.iainmcgilchrist.com/The_Master_...christ.pdf
lue raydiak: let me check before confirming :)
raydiak ha ha :)
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fgfgh how to install perl 6 19:32
raydiak lue: I changed the css so you can just change the classes "red", "blue", etc on each of the boxes in dev tools/firebug/whatever
got tired of all the copy and pasting hex codes all over the place
timotimo fgfgh: the easiest way is to download the rakudo star tarball from rakudo.org if you're on linux or mac, or the .msi if you're on windows
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fgfgh Thanks i will try now 19:33
timotimo the readme in the source tarball will tell you to run perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp or something similar and that should get you started right away
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lue raydiak: see for yourself: i.imgur.com/MaYMTGS.png 19:34
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raydiak oh, that does seem to work..."cool and pleasant" is the feel, at least for me 19:35
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lue And the footer box below would take on the yellows presumably 19:36
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raydiak htmlify is running while I take a few minutes break; should update on my server in 5 or 6 minutes 19:37
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hoelzro raydiak++ 19:43
lue: I like that a lot
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raydiak yeah, I'd consider that an improvement for sure 19:48
still looking for somewhere I could add a little contrasty accent toward the top, but as we move toward better navigation and organization along the lines of smls' ideas, that will solve itself 19:50
just putting camelia on there will help a lot
timotimo sounds likely
raydiak anyone know where can I find the sources for camelia? I assume there's an svg or something 19:54
timotimo in perl6/mu 19:56
"most unexpected"
lue raydiak: github.com/perl6/mu/tree/master/misc <-- camelia.* 19:57
moritz raydiak: perl6/evalbot
oh, you didn't mean the bot :-)
raydiak ah, awesome, thanks
arnsholt Progress! 19:58
raydiak actually, I had wondered about the bot at other times, too, so good to know
timotimo arnsholt: oooh, do tell! :D
arnsholt 7 passing callback tests on JVM, out of 9 19:59
timotimo \o/
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timotimo how's your tuit supply look like the rest of the week? 19:59
Rakudo Coffeecup this month? :3
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raydiak I notice the camelia svg lacks the ™ seen on perl6.org...is that critical? 20:05
lue raydiak: github.com/perl6/mu/blob/master/mi...amelia.txt 20:06
second paragraph
raydiak footnote it is :)
arnsholt HAHA! 20:08
benabik »ö«™ ? 20:10
moritz benabik: »ö« is an icon, not our main logo :-) 20:11
jnthn arnsholt: Pass all the things? :) 20:17
arnsholt Yeah, all the callback tests pass now 20:19
But some unexpected breakage in the cstruct tests
There we go. Wasn't a regression introduced by the callback stuff
arnsholt goes to put the kettle on 20:22
tadzik arnsholt: :D 20:24
arnsholt: that's awesome!
jnthn arnsholt++
tadzik arnsholt++
timotimo arnsholt++ 20:25
lue arnsholt++
masak arnsholt++
moritz arnsholt++
dalek volaj: d58590f | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/05-arrays.t:
Use concrete value when testing CArray[OpaquePointer].

This uncovers some missing functionality in on JVM the old code missed.
volaj: dc75c36 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
Properly decont in typed CArray STORE/FETCH.
volaj: 2f3cfad | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
Store return type object for callbacks.
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FROGGS_ arnsholt++ # sorry, I am late 20:28
arnsholt Such karma, much happy, wow. =) 20:33
moritz dogecallbacks! 20:34
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dalek p: 8c67bb1 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/NativeCallOps.java:
Make better use of ExceptionHandling.dieInternal() in NativeCallOps.
 20:40
p: dc7d396 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/CStruct.java:
Better commenting of code-gen in CStruct.java.
p: baf1a11 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (3 files):
Implement NativeCall callbacks on JVM.

This passes the NativeCall test suite, so it should be pretty functional. No doubt there are bugs lurking though.
With this, the only missing pieces for NativeCall on JVM are CArray of pointer-valued classes, and the nqp::nativecallrefresh op. 8181f81 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/CArray (2 files): Implement remaining cases of CArray.
All that's remaining for JVM NativeCall now is nqp::nativecallrefresh.
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jnthn wonders if DBIish now works on JVM :) 20:51
arnsholt Worth giving a shot 20:52
Might block on the missing CArray stuff though
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LLamaRider o/ #perl folks! Is there an estimate as to when Panda will support MoarVM? 22:28
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tadzik it almost does 22:51
on the moar-support branch
it's blazingly fast =)
but there's a deserialisation bug that keeps it from truly working 22:52
Mouq r: .permutations.say for (^3).combinations(2) 22:57
camelia rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'postcircumfix:<[ ]>'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, :BIND($BIND)!)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :SINK($SINK)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF, int $pos, Any :delete($delete)!, *%other)␤:(Any \SELF,…»
..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54: OUTPUT«0 1 1 0␤0 2 2 0␤1 2 2 1␤»
jnthn tadzik: I'm working on it. I'll have it nailed soon :) 22:58
Mouq I don't know what RM's problem is here
jnthn Mouq: Me either; didn't get to look at that one yet.
Mouq r: .perl.say for (^3).combinations(2)
camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«[0, 1]␤[0, 2]␤[1, 2]␤»
Mouq r: .permutations.WHAT.say for (^3).combinations(2) 22:59
camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«(List)␤(List)␤(List)␤»
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tadzik jnthn: awesome :) 23:11
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dalek p: 81e634a | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/NativeCallOps.java:
Make NativeCallOps.toJNAType handle type objects gracefully.
 23:29
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dalek volaj: 291e6b9 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/07-writebarrier.t:
Correct wording of a test description.
 23:31
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lue tadzik: is it just me, or is Shell::Command's cp() horrendously slow? 23:36
Oh wait, it might not be cp() after all 23:38
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lue I'm pretty sure File::Find's find() is more likely (using the :dir and :name adverbs there) 23:41
dalek kudo-star-daily: 0cddf76 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 23:46
rl6-roast-data: 276ce9f | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
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japhb lue: Last time I went deep down that path, I found it was ultimately canon_path that was killing performance for a lot of operations that need to work with directories and paths. 23:51
s/deep down that path/deep down that rabbit hole/
lue that's not in File/Find.pm though
japhb lue: Are you sure it isn't implicitely *used* by File::Find?
It was surprising how many operations on paths eventually ended up there. 23:52
lue Unless it's an NQP function or something, no.
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lue I'm going to replace find() with a terribly platform-dependent version for the time being, because the performance hit is impossible to function with. 23:53
tadzik lue: hm. It may be
maybe it's worth looking into
it's seems there's a lot work involved in getting paths right; I wonder if we can find something that'll be right-enough 23:55
lue That's just great; apparently qx and qqx are broken :( 23:56
tadzik :o
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raydiak may be entirely unrelated, but run doesn't work for me, while shell does...wonder if something is partially broken in that area 23:58
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lue r: qx'find . -name *pod'; 23:59
camelia rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-jvm 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> qx'find . ⏏-name *pod';␤»
Mouq raydiak, lue: On latest MoarVM? Wasn't this something addressed very recently?
lue nope, general rakudo
r: qx/find . -name *pod/;
camelia ( no output )
..rakudo-parrot 230a54, rakudo-moar 230a54: OUTPUT«qx, qqx is disallowed in restricted setting␤ in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting:2␤ in sub QX at src/RESTRICTED.setting:9␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»

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