»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
00:06 guest93 left
lizmat someone in my family had her internet disconnected: turned out someone in another street at the same number hadn't paid the bill 00:20
and the drone responsible for disconnecting people, simply had taken the wrong street
How Brazil is that for you... 00:21
japhb__ moritz: Regarding irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-03-19#i_8463201 , see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transdichotomous_model . So brrt's intuitive sense of integer arithmetic as constant-time is true under the transdichotomous model ... which is to say, native machine words of problem-appropriate size. 00:25
lizmat: Yeah, that's pretty damn common too. :-( 00:26
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lizmat sleep& 00:39
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BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> is assoc('list') { $^a + $^b }; say [Roof] 1..4 01:10
camelia rakudo-parrot 01d16c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤ in block at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17009␤ in sub at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17151␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..rakudo-moar 01d16c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16808␤ in sub at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16950␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..rakudo-jvm 01d16c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤ in block at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16754␤ in sub at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16896␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg r: sub infix:<oof> is assoc('list') { [+] @_ }; say [Roof] 1..4 01:11
camelia rakudo-parrot 01d16c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤ in block at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17009␤ in sub at gen/parrot/CORE.setting:17151␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..rakudo-moar 01d16c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16808␤ in sub at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16950␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
..rakudo-jvm 01d16c: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 4 but expected 2␤ in block at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16754␤ in sub at gen/jvm/CORE.setting:16896␤ in block at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤␤»
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skids
.oO(short form "-o <file>" and "-t <level>" options on rakudo eat the arg, but behave like they are not there)
 02:32
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redhands "a day may come when the efforts of perl6 developers fail, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day" 03:13
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nwc10 jnthn: plan C involved a pringles can and a step ladder? 08:31
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jnthn Morning o/ 10:27
Quiet night
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nwc10 quiet morning too 10:27
everywhere
jnthn nwc10: No, it involved waiting for midnight and hoping whatever magical phone company action happens at that time would fix things. 10:28
nwc10 aha. A pumpkin turned back into a router, or something?
jnthn Who knows... :)
Anyways, it works.
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jnthn Still need to get my fast connection fixed, but this'll do. 10:29
masak ohaj, #perl6
arnsholt o/
vendethiel \o 10:30
arnsholt Do we have any docs/similar on how to use the evalserver stuff?
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IllvilJa Just searched for 'rakudo' in 'Ubuntu Software Center' and look and behold, there was a package! 10:34
tadzik :)
col 10:35
it's 2013.03 in my ubuntu
IllvilJa Last time I checked (actually years ago but still), there was no rakudo, at least not in Redhat or in Gentoo. One had to download and install it outside of the package/software manager included in the system.
nwc10 This is perl6 version 2013.12 built on parrot 5.9.0 revision 0 10:36
IllvilJa That means it is easier to start writing FOSS software in Perl6 and just tell users "install rakudo and get rolling!"
nwc10 that's on this rather new desktop
arnsholt: did I miss some key line on IRC about what your hopefully-faster branch does differently to be faster?
arnsholt nwc10: Probably didn't say explicitly 10:39
nwc10 aha. That would explain a lot :-)
arnsholt For historical reasons (there was a process boundary between the two steps initially), the JAST tree (JVM specific syntax tree) in NQP is dumped to string before being converted to bytecode 10:40
FROGGS ohh dear
arnsholt Of course, now that the process boundary is gone it makes no sense to dump the tree to strings just to reparse it back to create the bytecode
FROGGS and I thought that this is a parrotism :o)
arnsholt The Parrot thing is a bit different, actually, but sort of similar yeah
FROGGS yeah 10:41
arnsholt Reason is that in the earliest days of the JVM backend, NQP/Parrot did the parsing and generated the JAST tree, while a new NQP/JVM process reparsed the dumped JAST and made the bytecode
So back then it had to be like that. Of course, when the process disappeared, the easiest thing to do was to just glue the two bits together =) 10:42
FROGGS feels kinda strange to paste output of rakudo to a #perl-* channel, but somehow a good kind of strange
arnsholt nwc10: Anyways, feel free to give the branch a go
I suspect it'll fail if you try to run Rakudo's testsuite, but I'm not entirely sure what's going on there 10:43
FROGGS arnsholt: does it fail faster? *g*
err, do you see a recognizable improvement for stuff that works?
arnsholt Haven't looked, really
But it'll mostly be an improvement for Rakudo's setting compile, I think 10:44
It's a compile-time thing, not a run-time thing
FROGGS yes, I see 10:45
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tadzik so, LWP+SSL as a gsoc project, yay or nay? 10:51
(I know the answer, just want to spread my excitement :P)
FROGGS yay!
masak yay!
FROGGS because I need it!
masak what was the thing we needed for Twitter again? 10:52
tadzik OAuth?
masak oh, yes.
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tadzik I hate it 10:52
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masak noted :) 10:52
tadzik I don't even want to mentor it :P
masak haha
FROGGS hehe
I will help on the LWP+SSL thing as good as I can
tadzik now I'm thinking about maybe doing the game engine thing as a project myself 10:54
FROGGS tadzik: that is not one of the easiest topics, and I think it is very easy to get this wrong 10:55
tadzik I was planning to do it for myself anyway, but I usually work a lot better when under pressure and deadlines
true :|
FROGGS yeah, me too
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tadzik just in case: would anyone be willing to mentor it? 10:56
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FROGGS I'd like to, but masak might be a better option 11:01
nwc10 there are a lot of branches in the NQP repository. How many are dead? 11:02
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FROGGS nwc10: none of mine (mine is only loop_labels, which is intended to be worked on some day) 11:08
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nwc10 b 11:09
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nwc10 arnsholt: most strangely, it fails all but the first Rakudo test run. 11:25
So /usr/local/bin/perl t/harness --jvm t/01-sanity/01-literals.t t/01-sanity/02-op-math.t
first passes, second fails
/usr/local/bin/perl t/harness --jvm t/01-sanity/02-op-math.t t/01-sanity/03-op-logic.t
first passes, second fails, despite the fact that the test t/01-sanity/02-op-math.t failed previously 11:26
jnthn What's it fail with ooc? 11:28
It's not that the JAST tree nodes are being over-shared, I guess?
arnsholt That'd be weird. Pretty sure it doesn't keep any references to the JAST being compiled 11:34
jnthn arnsholt: I more meant the types 11:35
arnsholt Oh, that can be it, yeah
It saves away references to the typeobjects on the first compile 11:36
jnthn That'd do it.
They're different for different compiles
Everything gets its own isolated deserialize, even on eval server, since anything can potentially be augmented, mutated, etc.
arnsholt Yeah, I didn't think about the eval server 11:37
jnthn It's not only that
Oh, it is actually
:)
Was gonna say something about eval and threads, but of course the threads share it.
arnsholt Heh 11:39
I'll give that a whack tonight, probably 11:40
jnthn \o/
I'm hunting a perl6-debug-m SEGV japhb__ found, and then I'll work on cutting a Moar release in time for today's Rakudo release.
tadzik awesome 11:41
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dalek kudo-debugger: 93e4b51 | jnthn++ | lib/Debugger/UI/CommandLine.pm:
Fix broken &fail detection in thrown.
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Lox Is the panda build packaged with rakudo known to be a little bit... squirrely? 13:22
tadzik squirrely? :o 13:24
Lox yeah, squirrely
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Lox as in when i try to run it, it pitches a fit and dies 13:24
tadzik hah
Lox and it's not a very happy, peaceful death
tadzik can you paste me the output?
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Lox it's more like a violent action movie villain death where you know he's probably not really dead 13:25
and yeah sure
prntscr.com/32h7hs
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tadzik hwoa :) 13:27
yeah, something's seriously wrong
masak hm, star-2014-01...
tadzik I think it's the one I released
and I'm sure panda worked in it
masak guess not enough things have changed in Panda since then...
tadzik github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/2014..../panda#L30 h,m 13:28
ah, it's here: github.com/tadzik/panda/blob/2014....tem.pm#L33 13:29
Lox: does 'panda update' do something sensible, and/or help? 13:30
Lox it pitches the same fit
the exact same fit, actually 13:31
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Lox i feel like it's probably an issue in my rakudo install, since i get the same error even if i install panda separately from the git repo (which also pitches a fit, but instead with the File::Find install) 13:35
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Lox managed to pull my power strip out of the wall accidentally, so if you had any revelations in the last 5 minutes I didn't see them 13:59
nwc10 Lox: sadly not. But as the topic says, irclog: irc.perl6.org
FROGGS Lox: no, there was no conversation
Lox bleh, missed that. thanks 14:00
FROGGS Lox: can you try to a) slurp a file and see if that works, and b) use JSON::Tiny to decode json? (aka call from-json ...) 14:03
Lox give me a sec, i'm rebuilding rakudo from scratch just to see if that helps 14:04
because hey, why not
FROGGS sure :o)
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masak Lox++ FROGGS++ # debugging 14:14
dalek kudo-star-daily: d2e60b4 | coke++ | log/ (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 14:15
kudo-star-daily: a5f3008 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
rl6-roast-data: 4d0daaf | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
rl6-roast-data: a959935 | coke++ | / (6 files):
today (automated commit)
[Coke] no rakudo backend is testing clean. 14:16
FROGGS :/
[Coke] looks like rakudo.moar was at 0% yesterday. 14:17
FROGGS yeah
[Coke] build failure, looks like. 14:18
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FROGGS I had no issues 14:19
dalek rlito: 2feb601 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - grammar - 1st expression can be empty in C-style for
 14:20
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hoelzro ahoy #perl6 14:25
moritz \o hoelzro, *
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dalek rlito: ac8d035 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - js runtime - fix test if subroutine exists, when the namespace was not created yet
 14:34
Lox apparently rebuilding everything from scratch fixed it 14:36
how... odd
i'm still curious what would've caused that issue in the first place
FROGGS Lox: do you had a previous installation of rakduo/parrot dangling around? 14:37
rakudo*
Lox i don't think so, i think i got rid of everything
FROGGS odd 14:38
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colomon Compress::Zlib? \o/ 15:31
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FROGGS what? 16:06
tadzik yeah, we have that :)
jnthn tadzik: When are you planning to work on the release? 16:08
tadzik jnthn: very late evening, probably 16:09
like, borderline midnight
may be sooner, probably won't be later
jnthn: is moar already released?
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jnthn tadzik: No, I'm gonna do that shortly, but there's a bugfix that affects getting a decent Moar Star that I'd like to try and get in. 16:11
tadzik: Sounds like I've got a couple of hours to take a shot at it? :)
masak who created Compress::Zlib? are they on this channel? I have a pull request. 16:16
retupmoca masak: right here
masak retupmoca: see github.com/retupmoca/P6-Compress-Zlib/pull/1 16:17
retupmoca masak: merged. I've been really bad about those swap files lately
masak retupmoca: it's probably because you add file with your eyes shut :P 16:18
anyway, retupmoca++ # for Compress::Zlib
retupmoca++ # for accepting pull requests
files*
cosimo you guys seen this yet? hacklang.org/
( www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2014/...book-hack/ ) 16:19
i'm curious to know your thoughts :)
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masak cosimo: ooh, a TypeScript-for-PHP? :) 16:22
cosimo looks like a php wrapping of some kind, yes 16:24
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Lox excuse my cluelessness, but what are you getting at with lines like this? 16:25
(10:14:34) «masak» Lox++ FROGGS++ # debugging
i'm assuming that it means something to one of the bots
kurahaupo Lox: social bonus points, of a sort 16:26
Lox++
:)
Lox I guess that means I'm cool or something, then
Charming 16:27
moritz Lox: currently no bot tracks that karma, but at some point I'll probably recover it from the logs
Lox oh, karma, that makes sense
I'll go back to lurking and learning, then
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[Coke] .seen allison 16:42
yoleaux I haven't seen allison around.
rurban isnt it /seen 16:44
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[Coke] not an irssi command. 16:45
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TimToady sigh, power failure this morning, so dunno how long I'll be on (laptop battery not in good shape) 16:48
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[Coke] are we pretty much dedicated to a monthly star release at this point? 16:50
I know in the past we had said ad hoc.
jnthn [Coke]: Given the current velocity, I think monthly will continue to make sense for a while. 16:54
[Coke] Anyone mind if I create perl6.github.com ?
moritz [Coke]: what will you put on it?
[Coke] jnthn: fair enough. when plotting out milestones, wanted to have monthlies for the compiler, will add them for star as well.
moritz I don't mind, just want to avoid fragementation of the websites; but if there's a good reason, go for it 16:55
[Coke] moritz: the project stuff I was suggesting came to mind. though I can do that in perl6.org, I suppose. nevermind.
moritz++
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[Coke] how can I run perl6.org repo locally? 16:56
moritz [Coke]: you need App::Mowyw from CPAN to build it 16:57
[Coke]: and there's an app.psgi in the repo which you can use as a dev webserver
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[Coke] moritz++ 16:58
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[Coke] if I were to track roadmap information in a text friendly format, any issues with json? 16:59
perl app.psgi -> Can't return outside a subroutine at app.psgi line 8. 17:03
moritz [Coke]: plackup app.psgi 17:06
[Coke]: no issues with json 17:09
the "features" page also uses json, iirc
[Coke] how do i populate online/ ? 17:10
arnsholt jnthn: I'm gonna assume attribute hints are stable over different incarnations of the various JAST::Node classes. That sound reasonable? 17:11
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moritz [Coke]: run mowyw 17:12
jnthn arnsholt: yes. 17:13
arnsholt Excellent 17:16
TimToady out of battery & 17:17
PerlJam
.oO( I didn't know that TimToady was battery operated )
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isBEKaml
.oO(I think he just sprang out of a battery and tried to get back in)
 17:22
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 382c11c | coke++ | README.md:
Document how to run the site locally
 17:24
moritz [Coke]++ # faster than me 17:25
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moritz stats for perl6.org since 2009 show an IE6 percentage of 4.4% 17:26
timotimo hello my friends 17:27
what have i missed today so far?
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[Coke] if my stuff doesn't work in IE6, I'll happily provide phone support getting those people to upgrade. 17:27
because that is less painful.
isBEKaml moritz: Well, I used to browse with IE6 not too long ago. :-)
moritz isBEKaml: but you don't anymore? 17:28
[Coke]: I'm thinking about dropping the IE6 requirement from README.md
isBEKaml moritz: Workplace enforcement. Thankfully, they were all upgraded since.
timotimo oh god i dropped right into a discussion on IE6?
[Coke] moritz: wow, I must have an IE6 blindspot. 17:29
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dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 8877076 | moritz++ | README.md:
bump IE version requirement to IE8
 17:29
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dalek kudo/nom: 0488f54 | jnthn++ | / (6 files):
Fix sub calls from pre-compiled roles in Moar.

In some cases, the fixup to the role outer would not be done. On the Parrot and JVM backends, things "magically" work out due to keeping track of a prior invocation. Moar's stricter closure model (which the JVM backend should also move to) lacks the "magic", and so highlighted the reliance on it. This fixes things for on MoarVM, but leaves alone JVM and Parrot's current approach given we're right up against the monthly release; after the release, they can all switch to the same, newer, model.		 18:02
jnthn That deals with the "pre-compiling modules that makes native calls doesn't work" issue
timotimo that sounds good! 18:03
jnthn And boy was it fiddly...
timotimo yeah, it does look fiddly :(
retupmoca jnthn++ 18:04
building now - hopefully Compress::Zlib will panda install on moar now
[Coke] jnthn++ 18:05
jnthn Hopefully!
My Windows message box example worked out.
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timotimo will we get a win32 api module? :P 18:05
jnthn Some day, I imagine :P
timotimo can we get a GUI based on MFC for Perl 6? 18:07
that'll be a hit with the hip masses!
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jnthn ...MFC? :P 18:07
The 1990s called :)
isBEKaml Is MFC still popular? I thought it died in a fit. :D
timotimo haha 18:08
i don't think anyone anywhere still likes that
what was bad about it, btw?
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jnthn Mebbe it's still used, but WPF and WinForms on .Net are the way I see most folks building their Windows GUI apps. 18:08
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jnthn timotimo: I dunno if it was bad at the time it was the thing to use, it's just that there's a bunch of more pleasant options now. 18:09
timotimo fair enough
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TimToady power back on \o/ 18:19
FROGGS jnthn: I have heard that MS kinda switched back to MFC for windows 8... is that not correct? 18:20
TimToady what, they don't use OLE automation anymore? 18:21
FROGGS I just know that a software company here is pretty pissed because they changed everything to use wpf with a great effort and then got slapped like that my MS
hmmm, can't find anything about that in the internets 18:23
ajr_ Depending on Microsoft must be a miserable existence; at best you'll get assimilated, at worst abandoned.
TimToady otoh, my Linux Mint just told me I have to upgrade now 18:24
jnthn FROGGS: Microsoft politics are messy.
FROGGS: WPF came from one division, Windows is built by another.
retupmoca Compress::Zlib::Raw still won't install :( 18:26
None of the parametric role variants for 'IntTypedCArray' matched the arguments supplied.
Cannot call ''; none of these signatures match:
my golfed version from the other day works fine now though 18:27
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jnthn Ah. That must be a totally separate problem. 18:30
retupmoca probably 18:31
I'll try and golf it tonight
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grondilu r: say 1 +> -1 18:33
camelia rakudo-parrot 01d16c, rakudo-jvm 01d16c, rakudo-moar 01d16c: OUTPUT«2␤» 18:34
grondilu n: say 1 +> -1
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«0␤»
grondilu suspects that's the reason he fails to translate rosettacode.org/wiki/Elementary_cel...utomaton#C
though I'm not sure, this bitwise wizardry is quite tough to grasp 18:36
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grondilu my attempt so far: paste.siduction.org/20140320183809 18:38
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jnthn retupmoca: Oddly, just putting a CArray[int] usage into my example code here doesn't fail... 18:40
grondilu hum... that paste link does not work :/ so here's the gist gist.github.com/grondilu/9670877
retupmoca jnthn: I replicate it in my repl by compiling Compress::Zlib::Raw; and then doing "use Compress::Zlib::Raw; use NativeCall; my $x = CArray[int8].new;" 18:41
vendethiel grondilu: you're trying to go faster ?
jnthn retupmoca: I...think Compress::ZLib::Raw is missing from the Github repo?
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retupmoca jnthn: but that only fails when Compress::Zlib::Raw is compiled 18:42
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retupmoca if the use is loading the .pm6 it works fine 18:42
jnthn: missing where?
jnthn retupmoca: There's no Raw.pm
retupmoca jnthn: github.com/retupmoca/P6-Compress-Zlib-Raw 18:43
jnthn: I split ::Raw into a different repo
jnthn Oh...it's a separate module
18:44 unclefester2 joined
unclefester2 Trying to build jvm rakudo. In step .../nqp-j --target=jar ... /World.nqp - Getting: Error while compiling op lexotic: Method 'jast' not found for invocant of class 'NQPMu' 18:46
18:49 k1lldash9 left, darutoko left
jnthn Ouch...wonder if that's the thing I just changed. 18:50
oh fuck, yes.
*sigh*
FROGGS jnthn: I get that too
I was just wondering what I am doing wrong :o) 18:51
nwc10 new release?
jnthn No, it's not a Moar issue 18:52
And Rakudo one isn't cut
nwc10 yay
yay again
tadzik <cat looking over the couch saing "soon".png>
unclefester2 Thanks all. I'll either try to roll back a few days or wait until it's fixed ... 18:54
jnthn Yeah, I'm working on the fix. Sorry. 18:55
18:56 unclefester2 left 18:57 kurahaupo_mobile joined, kurahaupo left, kurahaupo_mobile is now known as kurahaupo
grondilu vendethiel: yes 19:03
19:04 raiph left
grondilu it's fast as it is on this gist, but it's not right: the pattern should be seen on the right side as well. 19:06
set the initial state to 2**31 instead of 1 to see the problem more clearly if you want. 19:07
cognominal with latest git rakudo compiled with parrot , trying to install HTTP::Client gives No STable at index 1 19:10
build stage failed for HTTP::Client: Failed building lib/HTTP/Client/Request.pm6
... on a 64bit mac 19:12
FROGGS star: use HTTP::Client
camelia star 2013-09: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find HTTP::Client in any of: /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/5.5.0/languages/perl6/site/lib, /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/5.5.0/languages/perl6/vendor/lib, /home/p6eval/star/lib/parrot/5.5.0/languages/perl6/lib, /home/p6eval/.perl6/2013.09/…»
FROGGS cognominal: and it was working before?
cognominal never tried
will try to install other packages 19:13
can I use panda with moarvm? 19:15
nwc10 cognominal: I believe that the answer is "panda is supposed to work with Moarvm" 19:16
but you would be an early adopter :-)
retupmoca cognominal: it's been working for me
nwc10 it needs to work by next week
cognominal is it faster than with parrot?
retupmoca I'm not sure, it's been a long time since I've used parrot 19:17
I think it is
cognominal install the Web package works (with parrot).
19:18 Sqirrel left
FROGGS panda does work with moar, problem is that it delegates to your perl6 binary, which is the parrot one on my box 19:19
nwc10 FROGGS: well fix that then! :-)
(The perl 6 binary)
but also fix panda, to delegate to $^X 19:20
r: say $^X
camelia rakudo-parrot 01d16c, rakudo-jvm 01d16c, rakudo-moar 01d16c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Unsupported use of $^X variable; in Perl 6 please use $*EXECUTABLE_NAME␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> say $^X⏏<EOL>␤»
FROGGS nwc10: done so in the "eleven" branches :o)
nwc10 yay, non-LTA message
prn: say $*EXECUTABLE_NAME
cognominal it is very exciting to see moarvm leapfroggin parrot.
nwc10 oh, that doean't work
rn: say $*EXECUTABLE_NAME
camelia rakudo-jvm 01d16c: OUTPUT«perl6-j␤» 19:21
..rakudo-parrot 01d16c: OUTPUT«./rakudo-inst/bin/perl6-p␤»
..rakudo-moar 01d16c: OUTPUT«perl6-m␤»
..niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/niecza/run/Niecza.exe␤»
FROGGS P: say $*EXECUTABLE_NAME
camelia pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
FROGGS heh
19:25 cosimo left
moritz p6: say $*EXECUTABLE_NAME.^name 19:26
camelia rakudo-parrot 01d16c, rakudo-jvm 01d16c, rakudo-moar 01d16c, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«Str␤»
dalek kudo/nom: 6d62ea4 | jnthn++ | src/ (4 files):
Unbust JVM/Parrot builds.
 19:29
19:32 cosimo joined
tadzik release tiem \o/ 19:35
dalek kudo/nom: 1d29330 | tadzik++ | docs/ (2 files):
Add a new release announcement
 19:42
tadzik patches and proofreading welcome
TimToady grondilu: I already added a version that is 10 times faster or so 19:50
so I could remove all the comments badmouthing P6's speed :)
cognominal I also get "No STable at index 1" for LWP::Simple which is a rakudo star module. Something fishy here. 19:52
19:52 kurahaupo left
cognominal seems a serialization problem : 19:54
nqp/MoarVM/src/6model/sc.c:174: "No STable at index %d", idx);
nqp/src/vm/parrot/6model/serialization_context.c:95: "No STable at index %d", idx);
19:56 telex left 19:58 telex joined
moritz tadzik: announcement looks good 20:00
colomon \o/ release day!
tadzik hooray, release day 20:01
masak yay 20:05
masak chips in and reads l'announcement
jnthn tadzik: Maybe the TimToady++ Unicode improvements deserve a mention? 20:08
masak announce looks good.
tadzik oh, serly :)
surely
masak .oO( ser Larry Wall )
dalek p: 21a89d7 | tadzik++ | VERSION:
Bump version to 2014.03
 20:09
jnthn masak: How cheesy :P 20:10
dalek kudo/nom: 35b2bff | tadzik++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
[release] Bump NQP revision
kudo/nom: c413905 | tadzik++ | VERSION:
[release] Bump VERSION
kudo/nom: b576526 | tadzik++ | docs/announce/2014.03.md:
Add things to release annoucement
tadzik so much karma
jnthn so appreciation
PerlJam This channel makes me think of "Guys and Dolls" way more often than I should :) 20:12
masak queues up "Guys and Dolls"
20:14 pecastro left
masak cosimo: reading more about Hack has only reinforced my feeling that JavaScripdt:TypeScript::PHP:Hack. 20:15
cosimo: the fact that it's written in OCaml is interesting, too. I suppose that's how they are able to compile it so fast.
it all makes a lot of sense. doesn't make me like PHP more, but probably makes life loads easier for the Facebook folks. 20:16
tadzik parrot build is the most time-consuming step of a release process :o 20:18
PerlJam masak: that analogy seems spot-on to me. 20:19
(ergo, you're not only reinforcing it with yourself, but with me as well :)
masak PerlJam: TypeScript, on the other hand, makes me increasingly excited. it just makes so much sense.
PerlJam: I've resolved to try and write my next big JavaScript thing in TypeScript, just to try it out. 20:20
PerlJam nice.
Be sure and blog about it so we can gain some vicarious knowledge :)
tadzik prepare for 3-second-long compilation times :) 20:21
it's like rakudo pre-nom
so still fun :P
arnsholt masak: Did you see my link to my Python thing the other day, BTW? 20:22
FROGGS t/spec/S05-mass/charsets.rakudo.parrot (Wstat: 0 Tests: 16 Failed: 0)
TODO passed: 8
t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo.parrot (Wstat: 0 Tests: 709 Failed: 2)
Failed tests: 10, 647
jnthn FROGGS: Hm, mebbe fudge/ticket those latter 2? 20:31
FROGGS jnthn: maybe I can fix them, I'm about to have a look
jnthn ok
FROGGS not ok 647 - &uc is a suggestion 20:32
# got: 'uc'
# expected: '&uc'
not ok 10 - 'pack "A1", "mÄ"' died
let's see
20:34 cosimo left
FROGGS m: say pack "A1", "mÄ" # why is that supposed to die? 20:34
camelia rakudo-moar 1d2933: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<6d>␤»
masak arnsholt: yes. been looking through the commits so far. 20:35
FROGGS m: say pack "A2", "mÄ"
camelia rakudo-moar 1d2933: OUTPUT«non-ASCII character 'Ã' while processing an 'A' template in pack␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5410␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:5400␤ in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7559␤ in method reify at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:742…»
arnsholt masak: Cool. If inspiration strikes, I'd be happy to commitbit you =) 20:36
dalek ast: 4070a73 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
we need to cover both chars to hit Ä
 20:39
masak arnsholt: let me try to deserve that commitbit. I'll hit you with some PRs when you least expect it ;) 20:42
20:42 Goodbox joined
masak Goodbox: greetings, my good box! 20:44
dalek ast: 97fa523 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
&instead is only suggested if there was an & in the unkown sub
arnsholt masak: Deal!
dalek ast: 2d11bf4 | (Tobias Leich)++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
fix query for routine_suggestion
 20:48
Goodbox hey :p (Yes I choosen strange nick). Just taking a walk on this corner of freenode. I recently interested to (R)?ex and Perl6, firstly because I found mysefl managing a node, and because I just love computing =) 20:49
FROGGS Goodbox: welcome :o)
m: say 'Ä'.encode 20:50
camelia rakudo-moar 1d2933: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<c3 84>␤»
Goodbox Thank's ! :)
masak hands Goodbox back that apostrophe 20:52
Goodbox: Perl 6 is well worth becoming interested in! 20:53
FROGGS m: say 'mÄ'.ords
camelia rakudo-moar 1d2933: OUTPUT«109 196␤»
masak Goodbox: we like to think of it as, if not a good first language, then at least a good last language. :)
FROGGS tadzik: I have a rakudopatch in the queue, please hold back that release :o) 20:55
tadzik nooooooo
Goodbox Dont hesitate to correct my bad english, Yes I found of right computing despite I'm not writing perl everyday ^^ However for a apprentice sysadmin like me, this is essential to know what about :)
moritz \o/ parrot release notes contain a quote from HPMoR
masak Goodbox: you're doing fine. and we're happy to have you here. 20:56
moritz: yes, Util++
Goodbox: the beginner experience here is strange and bewildering. some of us are bots, not humans. don't hesitate to ask about stuff.
masak .oO( on IRC nobody knows you're a bot ) 20:57
dalek kudo/nom: 0caa198 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
complain about chars not bytes

When why want to cry about non-ASCII characters we should use .ords instead of using the list of bytes.		 20:58
FROGGS tadzik: done, now I am rerunning spectests
tadzik ok, they're your responsibility now :P 20:59
(I'm serious)
FROGGS sure
Goodbox I was sometimes reading articles from "Les mongeurs de Perl" which were published in linuxmag's. About my personnal preferencies, i find python really snicky (and so slow), (But far from me the idea to start a troll) 21:00
masak Goodbox: people have all sorts of preferences. Perl 6 is for people who like expressive power, lexical scoping, and extensibility. 21:02
cognominal GoodBox, the mongueurs hangout is #perlfr on irc.perl.org :)
and we have "les journées Perl" in June : journeesperl.fr/fpw2014/ 21:03
Goodbox Thank's cognominal ! I guess, knowing me, having more florescence using perl families languages ;)
cognominal: Nice! Plan to go to the RMLL's ? 21:04
cognominal I don't know.
where are you? In France? 21:05
grondilu cognominal: will there be talks about Perl 6?
Goodbox (Yes, I first join english communities beacause I have to prictice :p) cognominal I'm from the east of France and I plan to go at Montpellier with some french librist's :)
cognominal grondilu, it is up to you :) and people in this channel. I am not sure to attend :( 21:06
I wish I would be sure. 21:07
grondilu well, there aren't many french people in this channel, are there? You and me are the only one I know, IIRC. 21:08
cognominal elbeho told me fpw is almost at the same time as YAPC::NA :(
grondilu, I am working on articles about Perl 6 for the french linuxmag. If you are interested to collaborate... Witth rakudo star supporting moarvm, it will be a good time to publsh 21:11
grondilu cognominal: I suggest you wait until MoarVM supports conc. 21:13
then you'll have even more pretty cool stuff to talk about
cognominal conc?
nwc10 concurrency
grondilu concurrency
nwc10 I think that jnthn hopes to have it in for April
how frequently does the magazine come out? and what are its publication deadline dates? 21:14
cognominal We need to give an article at the end of the month to get it publish for the next month. 21:15
japhb__ jnthn: I've recently started loading down r-j enough with threads to result in some instability (errors coming up when they don't at lower loads). However, I've yet to golf it down to A) something easy to reproduce, and B) prove that it isn't something external to r-j that is failing (since the program in question spawns many dozens of subprocess pipes). Do we have any existing threading load-tests for Rakudo?
grondilu as cann have been observed on perlmonks, whenever you talk about MoarVM, people go "meh, yet another dead end" or something. So I think you really need to have something spectacular to show off before bothering them.
nwc10 cognominal: how many articles do you think you will be writing? 21:16
sorry if I seem to be all questions
jnthn japhb__: No, we don't. BUT I do know that there can be issues with regards to not having switched over to the thread-safer coderef stuff in JVM. 21:17
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jnthn japhb__: You may be hitting that. I'd love to say "try it on Moar" but ENOTYET. 21:17
japhb__: Since Moar has the right model.
japhb__ Ah, OK. Was this the stuff that you said in your recent commit you'll need to do after the release is cut?
masak finds much of the debate over "crumbling foundations" truly interesting in news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7436401
japhb__ jnthn: Yep, understood.
cognominal I have one which use rosalind as example to talk about strings and a little about OO. I have others that have bitrotten
masak best way to describe the whole situation -- that I've found thus far -- is Kent Beck's phrase "clean code that works". you can have either "clean code" or "that works", or both, and much discusssion will happen between the two camps that have found one but not the other. 21:18
nwc10 cognominal: ah OK, these are general Perl 6 articles? Rather than "new news" articles? 21:19
jnthn japhb__: No, the thing I fixed there was a case of "Moar caught us cheating".
japhb__ suddenly wonders if he's managing to spawn *so* many subprocess pipes that he's actually starting to run into FD limits or some such and the errors are just LTA.
jnthn: ;-D
brrt masak - it's a good discussion isn't it 21:20
masak moritz: i.imgur.com/F0t5T21.png :)
grondilu opens his eyes wide at the |args syntax on rosettacode.org/wiki/Elementary_cel...ton#Perl_6
masak brrt: for a long time, I had big problems with "clean code" vs "that works", because it seemed that both camps have a point. well, it turns out they do, and you can have both, and it's not obvious that you can, and that's why there are long discussions about this. 21:21
FROGGS grondilu: about the "yet another dead end": when you state what improvements moarvm brought us, then nobody can still think it is a dead end :o)
lue masak: distressing is the fact that 50% of all mentions of 2048 were misspelled :)
(in that png you shared) 21:22
masak lue: I suspect the screenshot is a fake :)
lue meanwhile, xkcd mentioned 2048, and I keep coming back to it (worse, I see potential mathematical questions, like "what is the largest tile you can have?" etc. :P) 21:24
21:24 kaare__ is now known as kaare_
masak lue: what *is* the largest tile you can have? 21:25
lue masak: my guess is ∞, like Hanoi. (You can solve a three-peg hanoi with any amount of disks; the shortest solution is just 2**n steps, IIRC) 21:26
tadzik argh 21:27
jvm is failing a lot of stuff
moritz lue: no, you can't
tadzik gist.github.com/tadzik/9674264 21:28
masak lue: no, there has to be an upper limit.
lue: because there's finite room, and it runs out.
moritz lue: you are limited to 2 ** ($n + 2), where $n is number of positions
lue moritz: really? I recall that a three-peg hanoi could handle any amount of disks. I agree that's possibly not the case for 2048 though.
moritz hanoi, yes. 2048, no
jnthn tadzik: I can explain/take blame for one: 21:29
t/spec/S17-concurrency/lock.t (Wstat: 0 Tests: 6 Failed: 0) Parse errors: Bad plan. You planned 7 tests but ran 6.
tadzik: I shoulda pushed that to a branch in roast, as the code that makes it pass is also in a branch.
FROGGS tadzik: jvm always failed tests 21:30
lue oh, right. In an absolutely perfect game, the largest would be 2**16 I think (imagine a snake of 15 blocks, each double the last, and a 2 appearing in the empty spot next to the existing 2)
FROGGS tadzik: seems like this month's low was at 5
tadzik oh 21:31
so, should I just carry on with the release>
FROGGS tadzik: in case I still can count we will end up with 9 failed tests (taking lock.t not into account) 21:32
jnthn We should really clean these up, but it's no worse than in previous releases. 21:33
21:33 brrt left
FROGGS damnit, spectesting for something other than moar takes ages >.< 21:33
tadzik you tell me
my laptop was at load 8 for an hour spectesting this 21:34
FROGGS *g*
21:34 colomon left
tadzik and make release fails with no error message 21:34
gist.github.com/tadzik/9674390
jnthn o.O 21:35
FROGGS O.o
21:36 colomon joined, BenGoldberg joined
FROGGS I guess `make manifest` does fail too? 21:37
japhb__ Something fun to show off serious concurrency + NativeCall: Something that draws a fractal by recursively spawning tasks to take smaller and smaller pieces of it until they hit one pixel, calculate it, *DRAW IT*, and then finish off. Because seeing that in motion would be very fun. 21:38
tadzik FROGGS: yes
I dunno why though 21:39
FROGGS tadzik: is the MANIFEST file locked by some process or so?
tadzik the MANIFEST file is not empty
FROGGS I cannot imagine what can fail in `find t/spec -type f | grep -v '\.git' >>MANIFEST`
and t/spec is a regular directory?
tadzik um, no
it's a symlink 21:40
should probably be find t/spec/
FROGGS maybe that confuddles it?
tadzik ah, now it works :)
FROGGS yay :o)
tadzik feather.perl6.nl/~tjs/rakudo-2014.03.tar.gz 21:42
please test
21:43 raiph joined
FROGGS tadzik: btw, p-spectest is clean now, will test your tarball now 21:43
tadzik awesmoe, thank you 21:44
BenGoldberg japhb__ Why not just have a top-level task spawn one sub-task per pixel directly? I don't see the benefit of recursion, here. 21:46
There would still be concurrency (all those subtasks calculating pixels), and there would still be NativeCall (drawing those pixels). 21:47
sjn gets an error when trying to build rakudo-2014.03 with a parrot background 21:48
backend*
japhb__ BenGoldberg: I left out some details. I imagined information flowing between the layers via e.g. channels and such, and showing that multi-level task fanout doesn't result in one portion of the fractal blocking on some other portion. (e.g. The first N tasks get assigned real threads, but then all other pixels start plodding through getting thread resources as if queued)
grondilu r: sub infix:<o>(&f, &g) { -> |args { f(g(|args)) } }; say (&atan o &tan)(pi/4)
[Coke] sjn: deets? 21:49
camelia rakudo-jvm 0caa19: OUTPUT«0.7853981633974483␤»
..rakudo-parrot 0caa19, rakudo-moar 0caa19: OUTPUT«0.785398163397448␤»
colomon BenGoldberg, japhb: I wouldn't do either -- each task doing one scanline of the fractal probably makes the most sense. at least for something like the Mandelbrot set
[Coke] r: so?
camelia rakudo-parrot 0caa19, rakudo-jvm 0caa19, rakudo-moar 0caa19: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Bogus statement␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> so?⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ statement list␤ prefix or t…»
sjn perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --backends=parrot
sh: 1: /home/sjn/src/rakudo-2014.03/install/bin/parrot: not found
[Coke] yup, that's fine, usually. it's looking for an existing parrot to use int eh build location, and noting it didn't. 21:50
sjn how about quieting the warning, if it's fine?
japhb__ BenGoldberg: My inspiration was a visual, thread-based variation on this: perl.plover.com/obfuscated/
(But not needing to be obfuscated per se. I'm not trying to create a sig JAPH.) 21:51
[Coke] sjn: seems reasonable. did your build stop there, or did it continue? (also, you might want --gen-nqp also)
sjn (it's the first line you get when running the first build instruction in the README file)
it seems to continue fine
[Coke] I agree, it's scary. 21:52
FROGGS sjn: yes, we should hide that to not frighten anybody
21:52 kaare_ left
tadzik agreed 21:54
japhb__ colomon: Oh, I know what makes *sense* -- I had a misspent youth doing renderings of various sorts -- but this is about crazy-that-works. :-) 21:55
colomon oh, crazy, carry on, then. :)
21:57 kivutar joined 21:59 kbaker left
dalek rl6-roast-data: 7567a7d | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
today (automated commit)
 22:02
[Coke] ... that's weird. usually at least pugs changes some of the failure modes. 22:03
sjn is easily frightened 22:05
22:06 brrt joined 22:07 cosimo joined
sjn get some more compilation warnings 22:07
pastebin?
no bot with pastebin suggestions..
FROGGS there are a lot of warning for the parrot backend, and just one or two when building moarvm 22:09
tadzik: Rakudo has been built and installed. 22:13
tadzik awesome 22:14
FROGGS nice, $dayjob is done too 22:15
tadzik: are you going to patch Make-Common? 22:17
MAKEFILE-Commin.in or what it is called
tadzik FROGGS: probably, yes :) 22:18
FROGGS tadzik++
22:19 brrt left 22:21 brrt joined
tadzik but tomorrow 22:23
for today, I'm more than done :)
22:23 skids joined
tadzik thanks for release assistance :) 22:23
FROGGS tadzik: does your tarball include my rakudo patch?
tadzik FROGGS: yes, it got it
FROGGS hmmm
tadzik s:2nd/it/in/
FROGGS t/spec/S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo.moar (Wstat: 0 Tests: 709 Failed: 8)
Failed tests: 10, 554, 556, 558, 560, 562, 598, 647
test 10 and 647 should pass on moar too 22:24
tadzik huh
FROGGS perhaps you did not pull roast?
tadzik I think I did 22:25
FROGGS the rakudo patch is in there, yeah
tadzik maybe I forgot :o
doesn't 'make spectest
' pull roast though?
FROGGS yeah
throws_like 'pack "A1", "mÄ"', X::Buf::Pack::NonASCII, char => 'Ä';
that should read A2 for example 22:26
tadzik: no, since it is not a git repo anymore
tadzik ah, right ;|
damn
but no, impossible
I did make spectest on the rakudo repo before doing the release 22:27
that pulled roast alright
22:27 brrt left
FROGGS pull again? 22:27
I dunno
tadzik the roast patch got there too late :/ 22:28
it's not in
FROGGS /o\
tadzik oh noes wat do 22:29
FROGGS pull and rebundle
tadzik and sneak-reupload :/
FROGGS we cannot ship failing tests for our "stable" backend
tadzik 2014.03.01 wuld be the right thing to do
I'll do that, but I think I'll spare the release announcement 22:30
dalek kudo/nom: 1c1a085 | tadzik++ | VERSION:
[release] Bump VERSION
 22:34
tadzik ok it's there 22:37
I'll update all the wikis tomorrowm since it's almost tommorow anyway :P
22:41 Halldor joined 22:43 Halldor left 22:44 Mouq joined 22:45 vky joined
Mouq tadzik++ FROGGS++ 22:46
jnthn tadzik++ # release 22:48
FROGGS++ # making sure release hadn't failing tests
timotimo is looking forward to MoarVM-2048 22:49
tadzik++ FROGGS++ # writing this seems to be hip today 22:51
FROGGS hehe
jnthn Time for some rest 22:53
I've have few to no tuits until Monday evening. 22:54
'night o/
lizmat gnight jnthn!
FROGGS gnight, I am going to bed also 22:55
Mouq o/ jnthn
o/ FROGGS
.seen smls 22:56
yoleaux I saw smls 25 Feb 2014 16:46Z in #perl6: <smls> :P
Mouq .seen raydiak
yoleaux I saw raydiak 7 Mar 2014 20:49Z in #perl6: <raydiak> isBEKaml: agreed, I can only imagine someone didn't want to add another dependency just for that one use
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dalek c: 93563f5 | Mouq++ | lib/modules.pod:
lib/modules.pod Formatting tweaks
 23:07
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Mouq doc.perl6.org/language/modules 23:26
That's all copied from the wiki, and should probably face some editing, especially as we revamp S11/22
But there ya' go 23:27
timotimo better than having lost it, thanks!
timotimo changes modules.perl6.org to match the new url 23:28
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timotimo there we go. 23:30
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: f9c8436 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | web/index.tmpl:
link to where the modules creation guide lives now
Mouq \o/ 23:31
timotimo: Do you have the power to actually update modules.perl6.org though?
timotimo i think it updates automatically regularly
(last update 2014-03-20 23:17:26 GMT).
Mouq It updates the modules list
But I made a change a while ago that hasn't shown up 23:32
Well, maybe I'm wrong
timotimo oh
maybe moritz will have to do it for us? 23:33
Mouq But I don't see what I'd expect the change to be from github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org...it/ef1e109
You mean moritz++? :9
timotimo i do see that change show up 23:34
Mouq curls modules.perl6.org/ to check if his browser's just weird 23:36
Mmm, still points to the ecosystem wiki
You sure you're not reading the commit backwards? 23:37
:P
timotimo oh damn
i was 23:38
Mouq timotimo: Heh, I do that too :)
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