»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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dalek ast: 0aefc53 | (David Warring [email@hidden.address] | integration/advent2012-day14.t:
adding 2012 advent day 14
 01:19
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avuserow colomon: I haven't considered a proxy really. I didn't find too much on that. I'll give it a shot. 03:56
masak morning, #perl6 03:57
avuserow good localtime, masak :) 03:59
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BenGoldberg Good mornevenafternnight? 04:29
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masak the abigail quote by the end of www.perl.com/pub/2005/03/03/pugs_interview.html is funny :> 04:42
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TimToady a lot of moat water has flowed under that drawbridge 05:10
FROGGS_ single moat water, even 05:12
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moritz \o 05:19
FROGGS_ o/ 05:20
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lue Not very Perl 6-related, and a bit ranty, but I blogged anyway :) rdstar.wordpress.com/2014/04/25/i-...2%99%A5-c/ 05:50
FROGGS_ lue: I commented on that and I'd like to know your opinions... rdstar.wordpress.com/2014/03/09/perl6-and-cpan/ 05:51
lue FROGGS_: replied 05:56
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FROGGS_ lue: replied again :o) 06:00
lue: whenever you have concerns or anything, please please ping or .tell me/lizmat 06:01
raydiak \o 06:03
lue FROGGS_: ah, I think my mistake was looking at the .pod pages, because that's where your searches always land and they seem like the main feature of search.cpan.org anyway. 06:04
♘ #perl6 o/
FROGGS_ lue: yes, the interface of search.cpan.org is not state of the art :o) 06:06
gnight lue
hi raydiak 06:07
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sergot morning #perl6 o/ 06:13
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FROGGS_ morning sergot 06:22
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timotimo hmm 06:57
FROGGS hmm?
timotimo: btw, I made some progress with labels-m last night
it installs the exception handlers in while loops for last/redo/next LABEL (yet without the label), and when it throws the exception (like in `last FOO`), it throws the correct exception category and already attaches the LABEL 06:59
timotimo <3
FROGGS next is to attach the LABEL to the handler and then when looking for an exception handler I just need to compare for the LABEL's .WHERE (which is its memory address) 07:00
I'd love to work on that right now, but... $work :/ 07:01
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moritz stripe.com/blog/stripe-open-source-retreat # maybe somebody wants to work on rakduo or MoarVM for three months in SF? :-) 07:16
(I doubt they'd fund that, but it might be worth a shot)
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FROGGS wow 07:19
stripe.com++
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sergot karma stripe.com 07:43
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FROGGS .karma stripe.com 07:49
.help
yoleaux FROGGS: I'm yoleaux. Type .commands to see what I can do, or see dpk.io/yoleaux for a quick guide.
FROGGS .commands
yoleaux Commands are divided into categories: services, general, api, demos, admin. Use .commands <category> to get a list of the commands in each.
FROGGS .commands services
yoleaux Commands in services: acronym, add-command, command-help, del-command, dety, geo, leo, moon, ngrams, nokiageo, o, r2r, roll, rot13, shipping, suggest, swhack, thesaurus, title, tw, twho, weather, yi. Use .help to get information about them.
FROGGS .commands general 07:50
yoleaux Commands in general: ask, at, botsnack, buck, bytes, choose, in, msg, on, pick, ping, seen, supercombiner, t, tell, to, tz. Use .help to get information about them.
FROGGS hmmm, perhaps only preflex did that
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dalek ast: 3978e49 | raydiak++ | S02-types/type.t:
Fix 'Int !~~ Numeric' test description
 08:03
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FROGGS hehe 08:04
good catch :o)
raydiak :) 08:05
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raydiak I noticed on the feature matrix it says rakudo supports an outdated spec of type coercions...what specifically does that mean? 08:06
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FROGGS I dunno 08:08
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moritz m: sub f (Cool $x as Int) { say $x }; f '42' 08:16
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«42␤»
moritz by the current spec, that would be written as sub f(Cool(Int) $x) { ... }
raydiak I see 08:17
moritz it seems to treat those coercion types as first-class objects
but is pretty much silent on their properties, exception for the coercion aspect
raydiak hm 08:18
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moritz so I guess some significant exploring/prototyping is necessary before actualy implementation 08:20
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sergot For those who don't know about this: I have the pleasure of inviting you for the second Polish Perl Workshop which is held on 17th and 18th of May. act.yapc.eu/plpw2014/ 08:23
FROGGS moritz: that feels like I could `say Cool(Int)` and would get an coercion object... is that right?
sergot We'd have nice gadgets for you! :)
FROGGS yay! I am coming for the gadgets then :o)
sergot FROGGS: hah, a mug maybe? :) 08:24
moritz FROGGS: yes, if I understand correctly
FROGGS sergot: ohh, I like mugs
moritz: that could be very very handy
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mhasch whow, plpw has lots of Perl 6 coverage 08:34
FROGGS that is the new shiny, aye :o) 08:35
and, even when somebody is not interested in P6 itself, learning techniques or how it can be done also is more interesting than "Here I show you how we mangle data in company X" IMO 08:36
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dalek p/async_ops: fd6faf9 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/runtime/Ops.java:
Fix Ops.bindsock to test instanceof IIOBindable instead of ServerSocketHandle.
 11:48
p/async_ops: e5b3c06 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (5 files):
Implement socket asyncconnect, asynclisten on JVM.
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dalek rlito: f08aa3e | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | src5/lib/Perlito5/Grammar/Regex5.pm:
Perlito5 - regex - cleanup
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[Coke] drinks a coffee and lets his brain decompress. 13:16
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vendethiel is back from a conf where people discussed CMS in java ... 13:30
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raiph www.youtube.com/watch?v=YW75CXY-P3M is a one hour video of jnthn doing his 2014 fosdem talk titled "Perl 6: what can you do today?" 13:38
I believe this is the version with the audio cleaned up as best possible.
Does someone have the tools to create a new version of this that is just the bit from 4m06s thru 33m59s? 13:39
vendethiel raiph: that's the best part :P ? 13:41
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raiph vendethiel: yes 13:47
vendethiel: the audio is clean for a few seconds before and after, and there are sporadic clean bits later on 13:54
retupmoca I found another moarvm precomp issue: gist.github.com/retupmoca/11290398 13:56
I might poke at it this weekend if I have time 13:57
raiph I think the section 4m06s thru 33m59s (of the above video) would make a nice coherent talk titled "Parsing informally structured text into a data model in 36 lines of Perl 6 code"
vendethiel raiph: usually, I just show people the JSON::Tiny grammar, and they're like "oh. yeah. Uhmmm..." 13:58
raiph vendethiel: as in, a neutral/negative reaction? have you gone thru jnthn's temperature data example, eg watched the video I linked? 13:59
vendethiel raiph: as in, "holy buckets, that would take 100 more lines to write in my language" 14:00
-- am I that bad at conveying enthusiasm of other people ?!
(and yeah I've pretty much read every slides jnthn made 'til ~2011)
what I show, in order of appearance : junctions. That always get people a head start. Multi dispatch. Ability to add operator. [+] with range. With "...", they're usually convinced
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vendethiel and when they ask what could be a really strong point, I show them JSON::Tiny. It's worked everytime, and I think I got 3 people on this channel :) 14:01
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FROGGS vendethiel: you have very good points there :o) 14:06
jnthn My NLPW talk: jnthn.net/papers/2014-nlpw-reactive.pdf 14:07
raiph vendethiel: sounds like a winning strategy. JSON::Tiny makes a point, and very quickly :)
vendethiel It's like I was a commercial in an older life o/
raiph advantages of the temp data example over JSON::Tiny include: ad hoc data (so one can't say, well, just use an existing parser); jnthn++; shows more of P6 dev process, especially use of debugger; is a video walk thru; jnthn; shows how to map from parser tree to a different data structure; jnthn 14:08
vendethiel (I'm not sure if you can say "I was a commercial" like I mean it, in english)
jnthn github.com/jnthn/perl6-reactive-samples is the sample code (link in slides too, but that's a clicky :))
vendethiel jnthn++
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colomon jnthn++ 14:14
raiph jnthn: have you done your recent one hour "Perl 6: what you can do today?" talk anywhere else, with a good recording? (only half the FOSDEM talk is salvageable as discussed above) 14:15
jnthn raiph: no, only did it the one time at fosdem 14:16
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jnthn today's was recorded fwiw. 14:16
vendethiel nice o/
jnthn hopefully well...I wore a mic 14:17
vendethiel How was the Python perl6 grammar called ? I thought it was snake
jnthn I thought snake too 14:18
github.com/arnsholt/snake
vendethiel yeah, thanks. Github didn't yield any result.
(and had no "Perl" in the language list ...)
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vendethiel One more future-perl6er, I guess :] 14:21
raiph jnthn: I would love to see you get a nice break from P6ing, but from the POV of having a longer video to point folk to, a well recorded "Perl 6: what can you do today?" talk this year by you, perhaps with some concurrency too, would be very useful :) 14:23
jnthn raiph: Yeah. Wonder how to arrange it... 14:25
coffee, bbl
colomon does IO::Notification actually work today?! 14:26
[Coke] -1 on showing junctions first. (people always want to poke at the internal values, which is a no no)
FROGGS [Coke]: for perlers I'd show sub signatures and multiple dispatch 14:27
moritz show roles!
FROGGS that would be like a wow... WOW!!
masak jnthn! \o/
jnthn oh, my bad, lightning talks... 14:28
:)
colomon: Yes, all that code works today. :)
colomon \o/
jnthn++ indeed!
jnthn Yes, I really did write a partial GTK binding on the train to the Netherlands.
FROGGS hehe
colomon jnthn: I haven't gotten that far yet….
FROGGS nice :o)
jnthn oh, sorry for spoiling the surprise :P 14:29
colomon thinks we need to figure out how to get jnthn to take more train rides. ;)
Ulti buy a model railway...
jnthn Well, needs to be a train ride with power and preferably internets :) 14:30
So you can't just send me off on the Trans-Sib...unless it gained power sockets since I last did it :)
masak vendethiel: arnsholt/snake is still very early days, I'm afraid.
vendethiel: I have vowed to add indentation parsing and a test suite... but haven't gotten that far yet. :/
jnthn masak: Would it help if we badger you more about it? :) 14:31
masak: Or give you mushrooms, maybe? 14:32
colomon Ulti: I have a very small, very simple, very desperately in need of scenary work, model railway.
masak jnthn: aaaaaaaah!
colomon jnthn: GTK::Simple not yet in ecosystem? 14:33
masak .oO( have to make do with GTK::Complicated... )
jnthn colomon: No, I was wondering if I might delekate that
moritz then I'll contribute a GTK::Weird
jnthn uh, delegate
btyler jnthn++ # just read the reactive programming slides. so cool! 14:34
masak jnthn: sounds like a delekate problem 14:35
btyler: url?
jnthn masak: a defekate problem would be crappier...
btyler masak: from about 20 minutes ago here: jnthn.net/papers/2014-nlpw-reactive.pdf
masak btyler++ # thanks!
jnthn masak: You get to see it live next month anyway :) 14:38
colomon jnthn: oh, the GTK::Simple code is already up at perl6-reactive-samples. nice. 14:41
jnthn yes :)
colomon is there a way to make a module owned by the perl6 organization on github? 14:42
moritz colomon: yes, you can transfer ownership 14:43
or I can create a fork into the perl6 organization
colomon hmmm… # definitely would not want to personally own a GTK::Simple module, but….
moritz colomon: or I can create a new git repo for you, if you want
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jnthn yes, I can contribute more to it, but I own enough things ;) 14:43
colomon I think group ownership is best for something like this, at least if you don't want it personally. 14:44
colomon is more than willing to let moritz++ do all the work so colomon can $work. ;)
moritz also for modules that have been abandonded by their previous owners
colomon: repo name? perl6/gtk-simple ?
colomon sounds good
jnthn wtfm
I'm not attached to the name GTK::Simple either
Though it...does make for simple code :) 14:45
tadzik is there any reason why it should be ::Simple?
do we have a regular Gtk?
LWP::Simple was simple at first, but then more and more features got it, and it isn't any simple now :)
jnthn Well, given it uses supplies for all the events, Gtk::Reactive isn't a bad name either 14:46
but doing it *without* supplies is probably not very idiomatic Perl 6 ;) 14:47
moritz github.com/perl6/gtk-simple created for your convenience
tadzik: we can have a module Gtk.pm6 in the gtk-simple repo, and rename the repo once it stops being simple :-) 14:48
vendethiel [Coke]: why not show junctions first ? Why not show them that, finally in 2014, you can say `$a == 1 | 2` ?
moritz [Coke]: then the next quextion is 'given 1|2, how do I extract the values?'
sorry, meant vendethiel
vendethiel moritz: no, it's not. They don't see it as a value 14:49
moritz vendethiel: and then you link them to faq.perl6.org/#eigenstate
vendethiel yeah, I've seen that already, but I'm not linking anybody to that.
moritz vendethiel: well, it's been a FAQ in here
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vendethiel if they ask do ask "how do I extract the values", I say "use an array instead". 14:49
s/ask do/do/ 14:50
(with any(@ari), that is) 14:52
timotimo an array or a set 14:57
vendethiel sure, but that's out of my point here (point itself being in the faq too)
timotimo is reading the slides and is a bit giddy
masak jnthn++ # jnthn.net/papers/2014-nlpw-reactive.pdf is awesome 14:58
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masak jnthn: so, you took the best bits of Rx, and ported them to Perl 6? :) 14:58
jnthn And TimToady gave us some nice names for things :) 14:59
Still some combinators to go :)
tadzik hmm 15:03
timotimo there's something funny about writing "$source.changed.unchaged(1)"
tadzik so now I just have to port MIDI to Perl 6 and I can rewrite my bachelor's code in Perl 6 :)
jnthn timotimo: hehe :)
unchanged is one of those names TimToady is likely to twiddle anyway
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colomon tadzik: hmmm..... 15:03
tadzik and use all the nice threading things 15:04
masak tadzik: please please port MIDI to Perl 6
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masak tadzik: I promise that if you do, we'll have the awesomest lightning talk together that ever lightning-talked. 15:05
tadzik hmmmm
masak synthesizer on stage anyone?
timotimo jnthn: i don't know why i'm even surprised, but that talk seems pretty darn awesome
jnthn :D
tadzik ha :)
timotimo thank you so much!
tadzik well, I mostly need MIDI for parsing midi streams
jnthn masak: ooh, #perl6 band? :)
masak "Camelia and the wailers" 15:10
FROGGS the first album will be called "Anonymous Monk" 15:12
colomon +1 15:13
jnthn haha
masak I'd like to see an album called "Swiss Army Chainsaw" 15:14
colomon dreams of a tune called "NYI" 15:16
jnthn Or "==SORRY!==" :) 15:17
masak jnthn: :)
we should make a list of these album titles.
jnthn And, in one of my favorite errors: "Unmarshallable object" :) 15:18
masak moritz: hah! we could have one called "RT #58392" :P
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...l?id=58392
masak clearly that will be an album from the "angry era"...
you young'uns have no idea what I'm talking about... :P 15:19
jnthn I hope that isn't the closure bug :P
btyler speaking of music, I went to a javascript meetup last night and someone was doing live-coding music improv using yaxu.org/tidal/ (a haskell dsl). seems to me that nativecall + slangs could make for some really fun bindings to different sound libs
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jnthn oh my, it is... 15:19
masak of course it is. 15:20
btyler: indeed.
btyler: which is yet another reason we need slangs ASAP for world dom^W^Woptimized for fun.
colomon is going to try rakudobrew on his MBP 15:21
Unhandled exception: While looking for 'ModuleLoader.moarvm': no such file or directory 15:24
at <unknown>:1 (src/vm/moar/stage0/nqp.moarvm::7)
make: *** [gen/moar/stage1/nqpmo.moarvm] Error 1
tthat's a new one for me
vendethiel m: sub f($l) { return() if $l <= 0; say "entering $l"; for 1..3 { f($l-1); say "looping in $l"; }}; f(2); 15:27
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«entering 2␤entering 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 2␤entering 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 2␤entering 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 1␤looping in 2␤»
jnthn pub & 15:28
colomon rakudobrew doesn't handle the failure well at all, if I try to do rakudobrew build moar again after the above failure
it it claims moar is already built.
pub++ 15:29
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raydiak mornin 15:52
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dalek kudo-star-daily: e93fd22 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 15:58
grondilu so I receive a mail telling me that I've automatically been subscribed to github.com/perl6/gtk-simple but it appears to be just a placeholder. So yeah, lol. Question though: will it depend on NativeCall (it does not work on my machine)?
timotimo it does depend on that 15:59
[Coke] Do you have a ticket open for nativecall not working?
grondilu there's issue #21 already: github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/issues/21 16:00
arnsholt Yeah
Have you tried wrapping some code, BTW?
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grondilu not sure what you mean. 16:01
arnsholt I suspect it might be a test bug, rather than an implementation bug 16:03
grondilu oh 16:04
donaldh Since it's Friday, here's "Hello world!". In async socket IO. 16:05
IO::Socket::Async.listen('localhost', 4000).tap(-> $c { $c.send("Hello world!\n"); $c.close() });
timotimo \o/ 16:06
jnthn: is there a clever way to abort the eval in the golf helper if it gets replaced?
especially if you accidentally an infinite loop?
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colomon tadzik: rakudo moar will not build for me under rakudobrew on my MBP, it works fine if I build it by hand. (parrot on rakudobrew works fine on the MBP, moar on rakudobrew works fine on my Linux box.) 16:08
raiph jnthn++ # awesome reactive presentation 16:09
jnthn: possible improvements: typo? "thread safely" -> "thread safety"; "UI events are exposed as live supplies (since the events happen whether they are tapped or not)" -> "Live supplies rather than on-demand (since the events happen whether they are tapped or not)"; "This means many things can tap a given event" -> "Many things can tap a given ev
ent" (unless this is really due to "live" aspect)
grondilu arnsholt: oh you seem to be write. I change 'long value' to 'long long value' and now the test pass. 16:10
s/write/right/ # what an awful typo
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grondilu but should the code somehow work also with 'long value' anyway? 16:11
s/should/shouldn't/
grondilu is talking about line 39 of 05-arrays.c 16:12
dalek p/async_ops: 4872cf7 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (2 files):
First cut at timer cancelling on JVM.
p/async_ops: 704c5c6 | (Donald Hunter)++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/ (3 files):
WIP async read, write ops on JVM.
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TimToady surely "unchanged" should be something more like "stable" 16:15
backing negatives into a name is almost always an ungood idea 16:16
*baking
another bad taipeaux
well, the x is probably x-cessive 16:17
btyler unless not unchanged { } ... else { ... }
vendethiel .changed(:debounce(1)) ? 16:18
or :throttle maybe
timotimo maybe even "stabilize"
FROGGS unless ... { ... } elsif ... { ... } continue { ... } *shudder* 16:19
but it could be worse, it could be PHP or Java
raydiak heh...OT but amusing...how to tell if something is true or false in PHP: php.net/manual/en/types.comparisons.php 16:27
FROGGS that files under the category: if you have to make a table, there is something wrong 16:28
timotimo see also the periodic table of operators :P 16:29
vendethiel bashing php ? what is this, 2006 :-) ?
vendethiel last bashed PHP this afternoon - but in a room full of php devs, it's hard not to :p 16:30
timotimo poor php devs
raydiak is still reading comments on that page and chuckling 16:33
grondilu here is the patch of my local modifications of NativeCall's test suite. gist.github.com/grondilu/11295465 I basically replaced all 'long' in structures with 'long long'. It made all tests pass. 16:34
timotimo i like how the == thing with strings that look like numbers is fixed in perl 6 in two different ways at the same time
first, we have eq, second we have infinite-sized ints.
masak +1 on "stable" 16:36
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vendethiel well, I think I can resume one of the biggest warts of php with `assert(in_array(array('7.10'), '7.1'))` 16:37
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vendethiel thinks having separate operators for separate operations is good 16:41
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timotimo that's for substring containment? 16:42
vendethiel timotimo: no, that checks if a value is an array(/list)
but it does coerce, even if both of them are strings already. go figure ...
timotimo er, what now? 16:43
this checks what is an array?
vendethiel I'm afraid you got PHP'd.
raydiak checks what is *in* an array
vendethiel Yes, in_array checks whether the 2nd argument if in the first
is in* the first (the first being an array) 16:44
timotimo ah. that makes more sense
vendethiel but PHP decides to coerce both operands when comparing it seems, even if they have the same type
timotimo so you have to coerce the first argument to an array if it's a string, but the second one gets coerced for you?
vendethiel No, you just use in_array like `any(('7.10', '3')) == 5` 16:45
(would be in PHP `in_array(array('7.10', '3'), 5)` - in_array isn't for substring containment. if you want to check substring containment in php, you gotta use strpos)
huf no it wouldnt
in_array is needle,haystack 16:46
and the default is the insane incomprehensible php-ish loose comparison which does whatever the hell it wants
perturbed by leap seconds for all i know
vendethiel oh yeah, that's strpos which has parameters the other way around :-)
huf there's an optional boolean 3rd parameter to make it compare strictly
vendethiel I can never remember the order, for there's *no* order.
huf because *that* is such a wonderful idea...
timotimo boolean arguments are great
they are always so clear in their meaning 16:47
huf true, true, true, false, null, true true
vendethiel that's where perl6 shines :-)
timotimo especially since you've gotten rid of named arguments
because they make code harder to understand
well
they would, if you had them
but you don't have them. you've abolished them. you never put them in. and look how your lovely code shines now <3
huf ha! function x($_) { extract($_); .... } # named params! 16:48
just to bring up another god-awful feature
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timotimo does extract do what i fear it does? 16:49
huf creates a bunch of vars from the k/v of the so-called array 16:50
also has some random flag options to control how it clobbers your shit
timotimo i'm quite glad lexpads are frozen at compile-time in perl6
vendethiel that's why :abc is sooo much better 16:51
m: sub defau(:$!lt) { say $lt }; defau(); 16:52
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not locate compile-time value for symbol $?CLASS␤»
vendethiel that's an, uh, interesting error.?
oh, okay
timotimo ah, yes
that ought to be more helpful
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vendethiel m: sub defau(:!$lt) { say $lt }; defau(); 16:53
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/NuqoayPDmU␤Malformed parameter␤at /tmp/NuqoayPDmU:1␤------> sub defau(⏏:!$lt) { say $lt }; defau();␤ expecting any of:␤ statement list␤ prefix or te…»
timotimo that seems to happen inside the optimizer
vendethiel well, I get that it sees $! as a class thingie, but erm
timotimo nope, it does ot. 16:54
yes, it does
it should warn you that you're using $! variables where no class is available
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timotimo is working on a fix already :) 16:54
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FROGGS "Weird-ish use of class private variable outside of a class" 16:56
or, in proper english or so
damn, I don't even know how to brane
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timotimo cannot use a $! parameter in a signature where no $?CLASS is available 16:58
------> sub defau($!lt⏏) { }
vendethiel timotimo++
erm, I remember a debate here to decide whether `abc(1..10)` should smartmatch or match a range ? 16:59
timotimo i'll clean up the code and put it up
why would abc(1..10) smartmatch anything?
vendethiel sub abc*
timotimo oh
hm. the cleaner code didn't fly 17:00
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timotimo since it doesn't take long at all, i can just as well go ahead and do a spectest run with the change :P 17:02
actually. nah. 17:03
dalek kudo/nom: 440739c | (Timo Paulssen)++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
nice error if $?CLASS isn't there around signatures
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timotimo does anybody have an idea how to have something like start { try EVAL .text } have a timer that'd abort the evaluation in case of stuff like infinite loops and such? 17:07
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tadzik colomon: how does it fail? 17:09
timotimo is there a way for NativeCall to refer to symbols inside the current application? 17:10
colomon tadzik: give me a moment
retupmoca timotimo: maybe just "is native is symbol('foo')" ? 17:11
timotimo hmm, how to best try this? 17:12
ah, i could abuse MVM_vm_create_instance 17:14
raydiak timotimo: one way to do a promise timeout: perlcabal.org/syn/S17.html#line_320
colomon tadzik: OH 17:15
arnsholt timotimo: is native(Str) will let you look up symbols in the current executable 17:16
What're you trying to do?
colomon tadzik: and that time it worked. stupid computers.
timotimo oh, cool
just pass an undefined string?
retupmoca is native does the same thing as is native(Str)
you don't need the (Str) at the end
timotimo i want to embed a moarvm in a program and offer C functions to be called to the perl6 program i'm embedding 17:17
raiph .tell lue blog.gatunka.com/2014/04/25/charact...ogrammers/
yoleaux raiph: I'll pass your message to lue.
colomon when it failed, it looked like irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-04-25#i_8637865
tadzik: ^^
tadzik oddness 17:19
curious though, how building it manually is any different than building on rakudobrew
arnsholt timotimo: Right. In that case, just exposing them with unadorned is native is probably the right thing, yeah 17:20
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timotimo cool. 17:20
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arnsholt What're you embedding Moar in, OOC? 17:21
timotimo huh
i'll perhaps have something to show at some point, or abandon the program :P
it's mostly a program that wants to load scripts and run them, replacing the VM each time
vendethiel m: sub foo(%foo, :$when) { say :%foo.perl; say :$when.perl; }; foo(a => 1, when => 2); 17:22
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/zDgc8USZdG:1␤ in block at /tmp/zDgc8USZdG:1␤␤»
vendethiel m: sub foo(%foo, :$when) { say :%foo.perl; say :$when.perl; }; foo({a => 1}, when => 2); 17:23
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«"foo" => {"a" => 1}␤"when" => 2␤»
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timotimo you probably want () around the colon pairs there 17:23
colomon tadzik: huh, now the rakudo moar I built isn't working correctly.
grondilu realises there actully is a int32 native type in Perl 6
vendethiel timotimo: {} is fine too :-)
timotimo m: sub foo(%foo, :$when) { say (:%foo).perl; say (:$when).perl; }; foo(a => 1, when => 2);
colomon > rakudobrew build-panda
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«Not enough positional parameters passed; got 0 but expected 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/kU_owRHqX4:1␤ in block at /tmp/kU_owRHqX4:1␤␤»
colomon Missing or wrong version of dependency 'gen/moar/stage2/QRegex.nqp'
timotimo er, oops :)
i was reading that wrong
vendethiel timotimo: also, no, I don't want () around those :) 17:24
I thought you meant in the call
m: my $a = 5; say (:$a).perl; say :$a.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«"a" => 5␤"a" => 5␤»
vendethiel m: my $a = "something quoted here"; say (:$a).perl; say :$a.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 1ae0b2: OUTPUT«"a" => "something quoted here"␤"a" => "something quoted here"␤»
timotimo yay, this just segfaults \o/ 17:25
so i can't really tell if i'm doing it right, but it's gonna be all right
arnsholt Hehe 17:28
When I started programming C I was always dismayed at segfaults
Now I'm usually pretty pleased when things segfault, since they're generally quite straightforward to debug =) 17:29
colomon arnsholt: amen
raiph stripe.com/blog/stripe-open-source-retreat # the one (and only) project I can see that I think matches their grant criteria is libperl-embedded-in-moarvm P5 interop for Rakudo/MoarVM 17:33
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grondilu updated version of the patch to have NativeCall's tests pass on 32bits: gist.github.com/grondilu/11295465 Here I changed 'int' to an explicit 'int32'. 17:38
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grondilu (the C-files don't need to be modified with this) 17:39
what I don't get is why 'int' is not a synonym to 'int32' on 32bit systems. That would make more sense. 17:40
ajr_ gronedilu: 12:34:58 would be the Chinese pianist fix. :-)* 17:41
nwc10 jnthn: what was that about *modern* OSes providing notification of changes to files?
arnsholt grondilu: Could be a Moar bug, even. It might use Moar's default integer type, which might be 64 bit 17:42
nwc10 jnthn: I think that MacOS Classic did it, and I know that RISC OS did: OMG a value! Do something!
oops
did: www.riscosopen.org/wiki/documentat...UpCall%203
arnsholt grondilu: And that patch'll break the tests on 64-bit systems =)
nwc10 or arguably "does"
raiph rakudo debugger bug "Crash when code to highlight includes a completely blank line" (github.com/jnthn/rakudo-debugger/issues/19) now includes my candidate for a fix.
[Coke] yay, rakudo.jvm daily run should be back to normal today. 17:46
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[Coke] It'd be great if someone could open tickets for the few concurrency failures that are still there. 17:47
colomon tadzik: so now build moar appears to work, but build-panda fails
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tadzik how? 17:48
17:48 kurahaupo left 17:49 kurahaupo joined
colomon Already up-to-date. 17:49
Missing or wrong version of dependency 'gen/moar/stage2/QRegex.nqp'
hmmm
okay, build moar "appears to work" is key, the install is still borked 17:50
grondilu arnsholt: could it be line 15 of nqp/MoarVM/src/6model/reprs/P6int.c? There is a MVMint64 mention that seems quite arbitrary. 17:52
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grondilu ah no it seems to be used as such quite a bit so it's more complicated than I thought I guess. 17:57
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masak *sigh* -- no wonder Python people don't have any qualms making fun of Perl. Guido makes Perl the butt of a joke in his PyCon keynote... 18:06
arnsholt grondilu: Actually, I think this might be a problem on all backends 18:07
Now that I think about it, it's coming back to me
NativeCall really wants int to correspond to C int, but the rest of Perl 6 often doesn't 18:08
moritz masak: funny enough, $coworker (who is a python dev) complained to me that there are too many options to do OO stuff in python, and he can't learn them all
multi inheritance, method decorators, class decorators, meta classes, dunno what else
and often he has trouble finding where stuff is actually implemented 18:09
masak Guido also pleads with the audience to try out Python 3.x, and to please help things forward so that the switch will gradually happen. 18:10
"Basically, all the people who can review the patch are already very busy. So the question is how we can grow that core." -- sounds familiar. :) 18:13
btyler masak: the concluding paragraph of the (1600+ page) Programming Python book is a joke at perl's expense. this one: www.python.org/doc/humor/#python-v...ng-to-yoda
so it seems to be Official Canon
masak I'm not saying it doesn't happen in the other direction, but... not as much, I would say. 18:15
there's something interesting psychologically going on there.
almost as if Python people *need* to say "we're not Perl", but Perl people don't need to say "we're not Python".
masak .oO( as to PHP, however... )
lue hello o/ 18:16
yoleaux 17:17Z <raiph> lue: blog.gatunka.com/2014/04/25/charact...ogrammers/
masak hellue \o
dalek rl6-roast-data: e19395d | coke++ | / (6 files):
today (automated commit)
 18:22
nwc10 masak: it often seems to me that many Python folks define their identity as "not Perl". Concentrating as much on what they are not as what they are. Which seems a strange way to prioritise things
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masak nwc10: maybe in some way, the seed of that was sown when Guido decided to create Python in the first place, and *already knew about Perl*. 18:24
grondilu watches Van Rossum's keynote: www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ef9GudbxXY First Perl joke at 11'10'' 18:25
nwc10 possibly
grondilu (followed by a round of applause) 18:26
nwc10 I wonder if it also makes it hard, if you define yourself as what you are against, because that thing seems to be bigger/endemic/"the establishment"
vendethiel Coming back to what I talked about earlier : I literally have a school full of "apprenctice PHP developers"(also c) I'd sure as hell like to do something
nwc10 and then the empire crumbles
masak grondilu: that's the one I referred to.
nwc10 and now what are you rebelling against? 18:27
vendethiel Most of them seem to like web - the other part is apparently fixated on their language, even if they don't always know why - so I'd be glad to have stuff to introduce them to better stuff - may it be perl6 or anything else
masak oh, there's another one at around 33:23.
nwc10 "also c" as in "also C" as in that rather useful language for writing fast but subtly insecure code?
masak a *Perl 6* joke, no less.
nwc10 where's the stuff about Python 3? 18:28
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vendethiel nwc10: "also C" as in, they're also c apprentice devs. 18:28
nwc10 aha.
masak ok, so at least now we know how to make Guido sleep bad :P 18:29
speaking of which...
vendethiel masak: so, it really was in a pejorative way :)
grondilu masak: I remember a GVR talk where he mentioned Perl 6 twice in the first five minutes. I thought that says something, don't know what exactly but it does say something.
masak ...'night, #perl6
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vendethiel but tbh, these really seem more like jokes than bashing 18:31
lue I'm not surprised a Pythoner would make jokes :P 18:33
vaskozl masak: night! 18:34
grondilu an other Perl mention at 18:05, but not a joke at all. 18:35
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raydiak lue++: thanks for the idea to put the perl6-bench test code next to the graphs, it definitely beats having to go dig it up yourself 18:39
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lue raydiak: I would've been fine if, say, the header for the graph linked to it on github. :) Let me see the site... 18:40
raydiak lue: cyberuniverses.com/perl6-bench/ is where I was working on it 18:41
hoelzro_ jnthn++ # awesome slides 18:42
18:42 hoelzro_ is now known as hoelzro
hoelzro I love the inter-commit tool 18:42
lue raydiak: I notice some of them don't have [code] things, such as zero. Is this intentional?
raydiak lue: a couple of them don't have strings where the test code is kept, so I just skip those ones; haven't investigated 18:44
the last few have arrays instead of strings, and I think the first one had nothing but don't recall for sure
lue OK then. I only saw the first test and the last couple of tests were missing them, from a very quick scroll-thru 18:45
raydiak I just saw the test code in a data::dumper output, and used it...didn't pay much mind to where it comes from or where it goes :)
those are the only ones
so it seems more spotty than it is
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hoelzro holy crap 18:47
this GTK thing is even better
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raiph raydiak++ # making the p6-bench results page so much more useful 19:13
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hoelzro hmm...bailador on perl6-m does *not* care for concurrent requests =/ 19:35
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timotimo hoelzro: it's kinda not easy to make that work in the same codebase as backends that lack these features :( 19:37
hoelzro oh, I know
I'm not blaming =)
tadzik hoelzro: it wasn't quite designed that way
timotimo mhm
tadzik back when I wrote it, concurrency was SF :P
hoelzro hell, I think it's awesome that I'm getting 40 RPS =)
tadzik :) nice
timotimo and as soon as your program does things with data structures that may end up being shared between requests, you'll start cursing :) 19:38
hoelzro I'm thinking of taking an application I wrote in Perl 5 and porting it
tadzik I could probably make it thread-safe
hoelzro most of the logic is in angular.js
timotimo though it may be a nice start to make it use asynchronous sockets?
hoelzro so this would be a good start
tadzik the main problem would be that the context object is there all the time, modified on every request 19:39
to save allocations and all that
hoelzro is that PSGI-specific, or bailador-specfiic?
tadzik bailador 19:40
hoelzro maybe you could make it thread-local?
that doesn't help async socks, though =(
tadzik psgi is not really implementation-bound
I think it's orthogonal
well, m
you probably want workers
async sockets themselves don't solve much
hoelzro well 19:41
timotimo i suppose we really are cpu-bottlenecked due to rakudos inefficiencies here and there
hoelzro I'm wondering why multiple concurrent requests mess with bailador
timotimo (and with "here and there" i really mean "everywhere")
hoelzro because shouldn't it just wait to accept() each client serially?
or maybe there's some concurrency madness going on? 19:42
tadzik hoelzro: because the context object is shared
and modified by each and every one of them
and it breks it at some point
hoelzro tadzik: but is bailador handling requests concurrently?
or rather PSGI 19:43
tadzik nonono
psgi is nothing about implementation
bailador isn't, because when I wrote it, concurrency in p6 was a distant future
so there was no need to bother with it at all
hoelzro maybe I mean HTTP::Easy::PSGI, then
tadzik maybe
19:50 rindolf left
raydiak fwiw, Pray concurrency branch also crashes under moar...I can't speak to the correctness of that code, don't even recall what it does/how it works atm, but it doesn't crash under jvm 19:51
dalek p/loop_labels: 8ec9562 | (Andrew Egeler)++ | src/HLL/CommandLine.nqp:
Fix perl6 -pe 'stuff'
 20:04
p/loop_labels: b596f16 | (Tobias Leich)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
bump moar rev for eof fix
p/loop_labels: 47ab859 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/nqp into loop_labels
p/loop_labels: 4738218 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
implement labeled loops and next/redo/last LABEL for nqp itself on moar

851cb6b | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/nqp/8 (2 files): renumber test file because old num was taken
retupmoca modules.perl6.org/ seems rather...empty today O.o
FROGGS damn, most of the commit msg isnt shown :/
jnthn: so we have loop labels on nqp-m and nqp-p now :o)
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raydiak heh, so, like retupmoca said, what's up with modules.perl6.org? anyone have access to the error log for the cron job? 20:16
[Coke] raydiak: you can probably grab a copy of the git source and try to build it, maybe you'll see it. 20:24
(I just tried, but am not in a position to install mojo5 atm)
raydiak [Coke]: good idea, trying 20:25
colomon wonder if it's running into the same problem I am with the module smoke results…. 20:26
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vendethiel do we have a "complicated" URL parser ? 20:30
(I mean, able to extract URL parts and such) 20:31
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retupmoca vendethiel: does URI do what you need? 20:46
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vendethiel retupmoca: I don't "need" stuff, I'm looking for stuff to do :p 20:58
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vendethiel retupmoca: no it doesn't 21:04
I mean, `extract('/page/5', ('/page/:id'))` would return `:id(5)` 21:05
retupmoca Ah, that kind of extract 21:07
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vendethiel could probably use URI's &segments tho 21:07
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dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: e5af4fc | raydiak++ | web/lib/P6Project.pm:
Allow HTTP redirection
 21:14
raydiak that should fix it, I think
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[Coke] raydiak++ 21:31
raydiak thanks :) hope it's actually fixed, can't entirely test due to some github api oauth token thing that I don't entirely understand 21:32
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timotimo what conference was it where jnthn did his talk? 22:20
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breinbaas today (friday) he was at NLPW in Utrecht, if that's what you mean 22:23
timotimo that was probably the one i meant 22:24
the one he gave the reactive programming talk on
ah, it's even in the slide filename
breinbaas yeah, that was today
timotimo hoping the recording will be up soon :) 22:25
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timotimo i think in order to chill out a bit i shall build a little nibbles in perl 6 23:09
but not right now, i don't think
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raydiak with 45 degree angles? 23:11
timotimo i was going to build it with ascii art, actually 23:12
so that wouldn't be very easy to properly do
raydiak correct
hey, you got '/' and '\', right? good to go... 23:13
timotimo hah
yeah, but i was hoping to use half blocks for the graphics
and then slashes and backslashes would look very out of place
raydiak you could include a custom font, and... 23:14
timotimo yeah right :) 23:15
raydiak or...um...you could raytrace each frame :)
guess I'm in a nonsensical mood 23:16
timotimo :)
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BenGoldberg m: for (0x0_0000 .. 0x1_0000) { my $n = uniname $_; say .base(16), " ", $n, " ", .chr, ";" if $n ~~ /<<BLOCK>>/ and $n ~~ /<<LEFT>>/; } 23:17
camelia rakudo-moar 440739: OUTPUT«2589 LEFT SEVEN EIGHTHS BLOCK ▉;␤258A LEFT THREE QUARTERS BLOCK ▊;␤258B LEFT FIVE EIGHTHS BLOCK ▋;␤258C LEFT HALF BLOCK ▌;␤258D LEFT THREE EIGHTHS BLOCK ▍;␤258E LEFT ONE QUARTER BLOCK ▎;␤258F LEFT ONE EIGHTH BLOCK ▏;␤»
BenGoldberg You can use quarter and eighth blocks for the graphics ;)
timotimo .o( we can now do that without a timeout! )
BenGoldberg blinks 23:18
yeah, it was faster, wasn't it
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timotimo aren't there supposed to be upper half blocks as well? 23:24
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raydiak .u ▀ 23:26
yoleaux U+2580 UPPER HALF BLOCK [So] (▀)
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timotimo m: say :16<2580> 23:39
camelia rakudo-moar 440739: OUTPUT«9600␤»
timotimo it's in that range still :\ 23:40
oh, there was an "and $n ** <<LEFT>>" in there

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