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Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
vendethiel seems like perl can't ever find my module 01:37
oh, it's okay 01:38
zacts so I wonder if ideas have been pondered about using llvm in some way for perl6 06:25
tadzik pondered, yeah, I think someone even tried to build something at some point 06:27
zacts tadzik: oh cool
tadzik github.com/ekiru/Bennu there
it looks dead though
thing is, llvm is nice and all, but is also, as the name suggests, low-level 06:28
so it's not exactly fitting perl 6
zacts ok
Woodi morning hackatownicy and * :) 06:54
Woodi I was reading Observer pattern aka Publish-Subscribe in Go4 and it is described in terms of notifications... Implementations may vary but maybe sometimes Supplies could just work as notifications of change/availability ? 07:00
btw. there are many methods/filters in Supplies/Rx... maybe sometimes a general mechanism like FSM for generating events could be usefull ? 07:02
timotimo morning * 07:21
FROGGS morning 07:29
lizmat commuting&
timotimo jnthn: i'm confused. i have num and Num candidates for the bindpos_n methods; the one where bindpos_n was used with no type in the signature weren't meant to be bindpos_n and i fixed that now 07:30
tadzik itz starting \o/ 08:09
jnthn Woodi: Supplies *are* an implementation of the observer pattern. 08:28
sergot_ \o/ 08:40
vendethiel mh, I can't pass what I want to remove to `trim-trailing` :( ? 08:55
vendethiel m: my %p = {v => {p => ('a',)}};say %p<v><p>.perl; 09:02
camelia rakudo-moar 641398: OUTPUT«$("a",)␤»
vendethiel why is that $() ? 09:03
m: say (1,).perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 641398: OUTPUT«(1,)␤»
lizmat lotrortk 09:09
vendethiel what 09:11
lizmat lknjasljhjh= 09:13
what can I day, not quite awake yet ?
*say 09:14
sigh
:-)
vendethiel there's no glob ? mmh :( 09:17
m: say dir('**/*').perl
camelia rakudo-moar 641398: OUTPUT«Failed to get the directory contents of '**/*': Failed to open dir: 2␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14104␤ in any at /home/p6eval/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:1␤ in method contents at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:141…»
vendethiel doc.perl6.org/routine/dir => the link to IO::Path 404s 09:18
and it seems it actually only returns IO::Path, even for files. 09:22
vendethiel github.com/Nami-Doc/Sprockets.pl/b...ocator.pm6 'did what i could 09:27
lizmat wonders what a Sprockets::Locator is 09:29
vendethiel lizmat: Sprockets is a ruby library for asset management (filters, caching, dep, etc) 09:30
vendethiel m: 1 and (say 1) && (say 2) 10:09
camelia rakudo-moar 641398: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
FROGGS n: 1 and (say 1) && (say 2) 10:15
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«1␤2␤»
FROGGS is that right?
vendethiel a bit surprising to me 10:17
dalek kudo/eleven: 6413980 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | src/core/Temporal.pm:
Fix incorrect order of operations in sleep-timer()
 10:22
kudo/eleven: 840d16d | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (103 files):
Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into eleven
kudo/eleven: 44ad975 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/ (4 files):
Merge branch 'eleven' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into eleven
panda/depends: 3be5bd5 | (Andrew Egeler)++ | lib/Panda/Builder.pm: 10:31
panda/depends: Remove old Build class when using Build.pm
panda/depends:
panda/depends: If two packages with Build.pm files were installed during the same panda
panda/depends: run (example: "panda install MIME::Base64 Auth::PAM::Simple"), the
dalek kudo/nom: a672ad9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
Add MMD candidates for simple Callables

for grep, grep-index, first, first-index, last-index		 10:45
dalek kudo/eleven: 3f8e0e1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
unbreak CompUnitRepo.install

We cannot use Hash.v (because it does not exists) and also not Hash:v, because it will complain about storing something into Pairs.		 10:51
lizmat oops, FROGGS++ 10:57
FROGGS :o)
dalek nda/depends: d2e4608 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Panda/Bundler.pm:
s/$*EXECUTABLE_NAME/$*EXECUTABLE/
 10:59
masak I wonder if Supply.migrate isn't really the "join" (or μ) transformation of a monad. 11:00
the signature for it is right: T(T(A)) -> T(A)
masak is listening to jnthn++'s Reactive Programming talk for the first time
timotimo oooh the video is up now? 11:07
FROGGS timotimo: no, we're seeing him live... 11:14
timotimo jnthn: please explain again what you meant with the num candidate? i have num and Num candidates
oooh!
i'm jealous
vendethiel same.
colomon_ o/
vendethiel masak: sounds like join to me :)
colomon_ knows not why he has an underscore this morning.
pippo o/ #perl6 11:41
pippo Little typo to be corrected at doc.perl6.org/type/EnumMap 11:42
say %e.values; # prints "1 2\n" if the previous line # printed "a b\n", "b a\n" otherwise
should be say %e.values; # prints "1 2\n" if the previous line # printed "a b\n", "b a\n" otherwise
should be say %e.values; # prints "1 2\n" if the previous line # printed "a b\n", "2 1\n" otherwise
colomon_ pippo++ 11:43
pippo :-)
o/
masak vendethiel: but is Supply a monad and a comonad? I think the latter. (but I'm not really good at distinguishing them yet) 12:10
dalek kudo/nom: 74b5674 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/Any.pm:
Properly MMD grep/first and friends
 12:13
vendethiel masak: a monad is something with a safe wrapping operation (and an unsafe unwrapping one). A comonad is something with a safe unwrapping (but an unsafe wrapping) 12:19
masak ooh
that's gonna make it a lot easier to think about.
vendethiel masak: in most cases, these kind of constructs don't respond to the monad laws, because of exception semantics
(ie they don't respect the right identity law) 12:20
masak ok, I see how List (for example) has a safe wrapping operation. you just take e to [e], right.
masak and there's no natural way to go the other way, because lists can have several elements -- which by the way leads to some hilarity in Perl 5. 12:20
vendethiel (so I've heard)
masak $ perl -E 'my $a = (5, 6, 7); say $a' 12:21
7
jlaire you can do that in C, too :P
masak $ perl -wE 'my @a = (5, 6, 7); my $b = @a; say $b'
3
vendethiel it'd be the first, though :)à
jlaire int x = (5, 6, 7);
masak ^ hilarity 12:22
vendethiel jlaire: but the comma isn't a list operator in C :). It's merely a semicolon operator at the statement level
masak heck, that should be the prototypical example of "there's no safe unwrapping" :)
vendethiel hahaha
jlaire vendethiel: my point exactlyl, the comma is also a sequencing operator in scalar context in Perl 5
jnthn o/
I gived my talk :) 12:23
masak moving on, what does it mean for Supply to have safe unwrapping but no safe wrapping?
jnthn++
jnthn timotimo: Link to latest gist?
vendethiel masak: a monad has `return` (Monad a => a -> m a), whereas a comonad has a `extract` (Comonad w => w a -> a) 12:26
FROGGS m: class Foo { my $.thing = 42 }; say Foo.thing
camelia rakudo-moar a672ad: OUTPUT«(Any)␤»
jnthn r: class A { my $.x = 42 }; A.x = 69; say A.x 12:26
vendethiel masak: Supply is something that can be used to wrap values and you have to use its flatMap (.tap I think ?) to get a value 12:27
camelia rakudo-jvm a672ad: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
..rakudo-{parrot,moar} a672ad: OUTPUT«69␤»
masak vendethiel: so, aha. a List[e] is an "e consumer" and a Supply[e] is an "e producer" 12:29
vendethiel masak: colist is the comonad of list 12:30
masak vendethiel: but... what does it mean for Supply to have no safe wrapping.
?
vendethiel masak: doesn't supply have a wrapping operation ? 12:31
or is it something else ? I don't really know supply
masak m: given Supply.for(1..10,1..10) { .tap(&say) } 12:32
camelia ( no output )
masak hm.
seems I don't really know it either :)
jnthn .for currently runs asynchronously
masak m: my $s = Supply.new; $s.tap(&say); $s.more("OH HAI")
camelia rakudo-moar a672ad: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak \o/
vendethiel: is any of that wrapping? I don't see it.
jnthn That's probably not great.
vendethiel masak: wrapping would be .more, wouldn't it ? 12:33
masak oh yes.
you're right.
vendethiel but Supply is not really a monad, so you have to look in a weird way to see it :)
masak what makes it "not safe"?
in the way List[e] -> e is not safe.
jnthn vendethiel: It lazy lists are a monad, then supplies are a monad too... 12:34
masak well, comonad.
vendethiel masak: I think it's a monad
there's no safe unwrapping for Supply 12:35
[14:26] <14vendethiel> masak: Supply is something that can be used to wrap values and you have to use its flatMap (.tap I think ?) to get a value
masak ok...
I would expect it to be a comonad, since we've used duality to get observables from lists. 12:36
masak or from iterables/enumerables, more exactly. 12:36
vendethiel masak: what would be `extract` for supply then ? 12:37
Woodi jnthn: I'm probably more then bad in explaining things... Supplies/Rx push _elems_ to receivers what is one possible implementation of Observer pattern. Other is: subscribing objects could be just _notified_ about available elems, and then receivers can get value
masak vendethiel: well, .tap is a kind of `extract`, I think. 12:38
vendethiel masak: no, it's a fmap
masak oh, ok. 12:38
vendethiel masak: an extract would mean you could do `my $a = $s.tap;`
masak Woodi: I fail to see the significant difference. 12:39
masak vendethiel: yes, you're right. 12:39
.tap is an fmap.
I think Erik Meijer said that Supply (well, Observable) is a comonad. 12:40
masak falls back to Appeal to Authority 12:41
vendethiel doesn't really like erik meijer 12:42
but then again, maybe somebody who knows what they're talking about would be better
masak :) 12:43
masak maybe I should instead ask: what's a colist, and what is a use case for one? 12:43
Woodi masak: for example receivers can skip intermediate updates. when updates are pushed sometimes it can fire additional unneeded updates somewhere else in the chain of supplies. I think observer patter is not the same as triggers 12:45
timotimo github.com/jnthn/zavolaj/pull/40/files ← jnthn 12:46
Woodi but it's implementation dependend, just saying... 12:47
jnthn timotimo: yeah, that looks fine to me. 12:48
masak Woodi: seems to me there's a trivial isomorphism between (a) receiving a value and conditionally ignoring it, and (b) receiving a notification about an update and conditionally getting the value.
timotimo jnthn: cool, feel free to merge that, then 12:49
masak Woodi: that's why I don't see any significant difference.
dalek volaj: ac41467 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
assign_pos for CArray
volaj: 92c8f2d | (Timo Paulssen)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
these weren't meant to be num methods.
volaj: 2cd79b0 | jonathan++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
Merge pull request #40 from timo/assign_pos_carray

assign_pos for CArray
timotimo i hope it also works. somebody ought to test it :P
All tests successful. 12:50
that doesn't sound too bad. though i don't know if it actually gets tested :)
jnthn *sigh* You didn't run the tests before sending the PR? :P
masak lizmat: subtests show up in prove without the -v option -- probably shouldn't. 12:51
I just ran the spectests. failures in S17-supply/on.t and S17-supply/watch_path.t
timotimo jnthn: i did now! :)
if the observer is moving at the right speed between where i wrote the code and where i sent the PR from, it could conceivably be that i tested it before i sent the pull request 12:52
because relativity!
jnthn I thought I was feeling heavy 'cus of all the pizza but no, it's because relativity :P 12:54
timotimo did your talk get recorded again? 12:57
jnthn I saw a video camera :)
masak m: use v5; my $a = (5, 6, 7); say $a 12:58
camelia rakudo-moar a672ad: OUTPUT«5 6 7␤»
masak FROGGS: ^ bug
timotimo i wonder if the recording from this talk will be up before the one from plpw will be
masak FROGGS: where do I submit 'use v5' bugs?
timotimo that was plpw, wasn't it?
jnthn masak: uh...is that actually really using v5?
FROGGS no
masak oh. :)
how do I try 'use v5' things using camelia? 12:59
timotimo i don't think we can do that yet
masak I see.
jnthn And when we can it'll likely be star: ...
FROGGS 'use v5' is noop right now here
someday it will be in star, yeah
hopefully in <3months or so 13:00
jnthn lovemonths?
FROGGS maybe a bit more, dunno
*g*
masak in lovemonths, gotcha.
FROGGS there are only lovemonths :o)
jnthn FROGGS: What's the blocker? "Just" getting the patch on Rakudo eliminated? 13:01
FROGGS jnthn: yes
well, and then it is "only" about getting closer and closer to Perl 5
jnthn FROGGS: If we were to get that patched into Rakudo in the next days, we could have it in the monthly, and get v5 into the next star in theory, no? 13:04
FROGGS jnthn: yes, this should be no problem at all 13:05
that's the patch btw: github.com/rakudo-p5/v5/blob/maste...kudo.patch
timotimo and it could be in the weekly, too :) 13:07
flussence
.oO( I have a feeling this christmas is going to be "the" one :)
 13:10
timotimo every christmas is the christmas 13:11
vendethiel masak: good question :)
masak: github.com/ekmett/comonad/blob/mas...Comonad.hs 13:12
masak looks
vendethiel (that's for comonad, not colist - can't find good stuff for colist)
I found an article but it's wrong 13:14
masak really interesting question during lizmat++'s talk: what's the percentage of pure perl modules on CPAN?
things that complicate the answer: (a) dependencies might not be pure Perl, and (b) the DarkPAN is largely not using XS. 13:15
timotimo is DarkPAN just a word for "modules that are not uploaded to the CPAN"? 13:16
masak yes.
timotimo want to put it into S99?
:)
masak it's a thing that Perl 5 Porters take quite seriously.
timotimo: oki.
timotimo right. "how will this change affect the DarkPAN"?
masak right. 13:17
timotimo right.
masak (b) means we'll never know the "real" answer. 13:18
I would still like to actually traverse CPAN and find out the answer, with and without (a).
timotimo mhm
dalek ecs: 6feffb1 | masak++ | S99-glossary.pod:
[S99] "DarkPAN" entry

Nobody expects the Spanish Darkquisition!		 13:21
timotimo the Panish Darkquisition?
masak hehe
jnthn
.oO( СPANish inquisition )
 13:22
lizmat masak: do the subtest show up without indentation ?
masak lizmat: yep. 13:24
lizmat ah?
masak chuckles at the word "Cokleisli" in the .hs source file above
lizmat: would you like a gist?
oh wait 13:25
hold on -- I'm stupid, that's what.
lizmat: never mind :/
yeah, everything works. 13:26
masak PEBKAC 13:26
anyway, here's the failed tests stats: 13:28
t/spec/S17-supply/on.t -- Failed tests: 4-5
t/spec/S17-supply/watch_path.t -- Failed tests: 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19, 22-23
masak in t/spec: 13:36
$ git grep -c sleep | perl6 -ne 's/^ <-[:]>+ \://; our $sum; $sum += $_; END say $sum'
92
:/
58 of those are in S17-*/
I bet a lot of those can be eliminated by using Scheduler cleverly.
masak just gave a TDD course where he said "you should inject time, not sleep literally -- unfortunately, it's not done so often in practice..." 13:37
jnthn masak: Yeah, I mentioned we could use a TestScheduler-alike, as Rx does. If you're curious enough to implement it... ;-) 13:38
masak I am.
jnthn In theory it's not much code
masak I see that as a potential win for the S17 tests.
jnthn See the Scheduler interface.
Me too :)
masak *nod*
jnthn uh, s/interface/role/ :) 13:39
masak first in my queue, though: :expires for .squish
jnthn ooh :)
++masak # squishing NYIs 13:40
FROGGS timotimo: you might enjoy: www.infoq.com/presentations/invokedynamic - by jnthn++
jnthn I just identified the minimum revert needed to unbust Panda builds against HEAD MoarVM that various folks have seen (the SEGV happened around compiling Builder.pm) 13:42
dalek kudo/nom: d154cc8 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/SupplyOperations.pm:
Fix Supply.grep for Regexes
ast: 6f14b03 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S17-supply/grep.t:
Add tests for Supply.grep(Regex)
 13:43
lizmat jnthn ^^^ 13:44
should fix oddness you've seen
cognominal jnthn++ for www.infoq.com/presentations/invokedynamic 13:47
masak half-expected cognominal to make a French pun about invokedynamic 13:48
cognominal I can't think of any 13:49
masak ;)
cognominal jnthn has the right mix of informality and precision in his presentations that makes them so enjoyable 13:52
jnthn
.oO( Not sure precisely informal, or informally precise... )
 13:54
cognominal s :g /interesting/really hard/ from jnthn's sublanguage to mine 14:00
masak .oO( www.preciselyinformal.org ) 14:04
vendethiel m: say 5 ?? $_ : 0; 14:16
camelia rakudo-moar 74b567: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/UxrhFTb1hz␤Please use !! rather than :␤at /tmp/UxrhFTb1hz:1␤------> say 5 ?? $_ ⏏: 0;␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ infix stopper␤ infix or …»
vendethiel m: say 5 ?? $_ !! 0;
camelia rakudo-moar 74b567: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
vendethiel mmh. 14:16
lizmat m: .say 14:17
camelia rakudo-moar 74b567: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
lizmat vendethiel: apparently $_ is by default Nil in the repl ? 14:19
vendethiel lizmat: I was just looking to see if I could get the ternary's "topic"
jnthn ?? doesn't topicalize
You can do that with if foo() -> $x { ... } or so 14:20
lizmat which makes much more sense then the Perl 5 idiom: if my $x = foo() { say $x } 14:22
jnthn gets the scoping righter 14:24
masak it's nice -- I use it occasionally for "interesting values of True". 14:25
jnthn aye
masak it's kinda cool that it just falls out of the principle that "blocks (even those in syntactic forms) can also have signatures"
lizmat p5: if ( my $x = 0 ) { } else { print "$x\n" } 14:26
perl5: if ( my $x = 0 ) { } else { print "$x\n" }
masak ENOP5
lizmat $ perl -e ' if ( my $x = 0 ) { } else { print "$x\n" }'
0
even weirder: $ perl -e ' if ( my $x = 0 ) { } else { } print "$x\n"' 14:27
so, it *is* in the scope of the if/else but not outside 14:28
$ perl -we ' if ( my $x = 0 ) { } else { } print "$x\n"'
Found = in conditional, should be == at -e line 1.
Name "main::x" used only once: possible typo at -e line 1.
Use of uninitialized value $x in concatenation (.) or string at -e line 1.
lizmat <3 Perl 6 14:30
cognominal What jnthn describes in plan b looks like a simplified version of bibliography.selflanguage.org/_static/pics.pdf There are other papers and it is used in v8. 14:32
vendethiel oh, I've spent 30 min trying to understand what happened then I remember perl6 does list flattening :( 14:37
ooh ... I'm using $ and not @ ... 14:43
vendethiel that'll take some time to sink ... 14:50
But I hope what I'm doing will be useful to web frameworks in the future :)
masak workshop over for the day 14:55
&
vendethiel masak: I use it a lot 15:43
vendethiel m: class A { has $.a; method m(:$.a) {say $.a} }; my $a = A.new; say $a.perl; $a.m(a => 6); say $a.perl; 15:47
camelia rakudo-moar d154cc: OUTPUT«A.new(a => Any)␤Cannot find method 'STORE'␤ in method m at /tmp/VGrBqogIkR:1␤ in block at /tmp/VGrBqogIkR:1␤␤»
vendethiel it's a bit surprising that $.a has to be rw in this case
(because it makes it public)
TimToady try it with :$!a instead 15:48
$.a is the virtual interface
vendethiel m: class A { has $.a; method m(:$!a) {say $.a} }; my $a = A.new; say $a.perl; $a.m(a => 6); say $a.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar d154cc: OUTPUT«A.new(a => Any)␤6␤A.new(a => 6)␤»
vendethiel Ah, alright. thanks TimToady 15:49
.oO( my autocomplete is gettign tired of all these tim )
TimToady make case sensitive :) 15:50
vendethiel even with `use v6;` p6 complains that "this looks like p5 code"
just because I don't know properly how to do a module that exports functions, meh !
TimToady starts looking around for his MJD quotations... 15:51
vendethiel tries to look for the difference between module and package 15:52
TimToady packages don't export
packages don't export in P5 either, but the way you turn a package into a module in P5 is not by using the keyword "module", is all 15:53
you make a module by installing something that can export to 'use', and in P6 you do that by saying 'module' 15:54
(or 'class')
(or 'grammar') 15:55
but in both P5 and P6, a package is just a place to poke symbols
TimToady P6 just makes it look more declarative to go beyond that 15:56
vendethiel to "poke symbols"? 16:46
vendethiel even expected our to have an `is export`-ish behavior, but fixed his code 16:47
TimToady 'our' is the sense of 'globally nameable', like Yellowstone Park, not in the sense of "cultural imperialism", like the whole world must acquire the values of Hollywood 16:50
we don't export Yellowstone, but you know where to find it 16:51
TimToady cultural imperialism would be bad in a programming language, because it would violate the rule of the programmer knowing what language they're using 16:52
vendethiel ah, alright. 16:53
There's no construct to only import some names from a module, is there ?
TimToady sure, use Foo <just these names>; 16:54
or there are tags
vendethiel I really dig that.
mmh, and I just learned about `need`. 16:55
TimToady equivalent to P5's use Foo (); 16:56
vendethiel yeah, I'm reading through S11 (trying to find alias if they exist)
on the other hand, you can force a program to have any symbol with :mandatory,right ? even if they don't `use $ <it>` 16:57
TimToady doesn't remember the specifics :)
or whether rakudo implements any such thing... 16:59
vendethiel ah, there's apparently no aliasing
TimToady you can always alias anything that is visible 17:09
TimToady for the rare occasions you need to, that's probably sufficient 17:09
flussence I've done good today... more crashes caused than chars of code added :) 18:06
vendethiel "batman does good - you did well" :P 18:07
ingy that's all week and good but... 18:12
grr
ingy returns to being lame
vendethiel #` comments are so hard to type on an azerty :[ 18:38
.u 「 18:39
yoleaux U+300C LEFT CORNER BRACKET [Ps] (「)
vendethiel . 19:03
m: say 'ping'
camelia rakudo-moar d154cc: OUTPUT«ping␤»
vendethiel m: my $s; sub a { UNDO $s = 1; fail "foo" }; try a; say $s; 20:25
camelia rakudo-moar d154cc: OUTPUT«1␤»
vendethiel m: sub do-stuff-with-db($param) { state $db = get-db-cnt(); ENTER $db.start-transaction; KEEP $db.commit; UNDO $db.rollback; } 20:27
camelia rakudo-moar d154cc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/ItfhErpIys␤Undeclared routine:␤ get-db-cnt used at line 1␤␤»
vendethiel m: sub do-stuff-with-db($param) { state $db = get-db-cnt(); ENTER $db.start-transaction; KEEP $db.commit; UNDO $db.rollback; }; sub get-db-cnt { True }
camelia ( no output )
vendethiel is showing off p6 to yet another one 20:28
timotimo o/ 20:32
vendethiel o/ timotimo
flussence m: await( (^10).map: { start { say $_ } } ) 20:44
camelia rakudo-moar d154cc: OUTPUT«0␤1␤2␤435␤␤6␤7␤8␤9␤␤»
timotimo i can't watch the presentation on invokedynamic and i would have to sign up to download the mp3 file :\ 21:29
vendethiel ah, looks like I missed the link somehow 21:30
vendethiel thanks perlgeek.de
timotimo signing up requires *lots* of info 21:33
vendethiel this talk starts with a good reminder about a great thing wrt perl 6 : it's good with dealing with known unknown 21:43
timotimo the ipv6 in this place seems very flaky 21:51
and i don't see a simple "turn ipv6 off" thingie in network manager
geekosaur gnome network manager? afaik you can go into the interface properties, ipv6 tab, set to link-local 21:52
you can't shut it off entirely but link local might as well be off since it's non-routable

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