»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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ren1us Okay, as part of my continuing struggle to work through the book, such as it is, I now have a question: When it comes to constructing a new instance via self.bless, how would the syntax look for sending in a param with a name which doesn't quite match an attribute? 01:48
And because that clearly made no sense in words, here's a quick example: new($value) { return self.bless(:$value); } works fine, given a "$value" attribute
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ren1us However, let's say you wanted to do something along the lines of: new($val) { return self.bless(value => $val); }. How would the *proper* syntax for that look? 01:49
I think my big confusion is, exactly what is that : operator actually doing and how is bless trying to match things. 01:50
BenGoldberg As far as I know, :$foo is exactly identical to foo => $foo 01:51
ren1us But what if you're trying to do foo => $bar? 01:52
BenGoldberg Then write foo => $bar 01:53
flussence You can write :foo($bar) if you want, but they're both the same everywhere.
ren1us That works and actualyl makes a ton of sense. Thanks. 01:54
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perltricks anyone know why this capture doesn't work? perl6 -e '"one two" ~~ m:g/(\w+)/; for @() { say } 03:09
avuserow2 m: "one two" ~~ m:g/(\w+)/; for @() { .say } 03:12
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«｢two｣␤␤»
avuserow2 perltricks: ^
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avuserow is that what you are seeing? 03:12
m: "one two" ~~ m:g/(\w+)/; @().perl.say 03:13
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«(Match.new(orig => "one two", from => 4, to => 7, ast => Any, list => ().list, hash => EnumMap.new()),).list␤»
perltricks Hi, thanks. I'm getting the last match ... but I want to iterate all matches 03:14
With global matching I expected 'one' and 'two' as captures 03:15
avuserow you could always use .comb here 03:20
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avuserow m: .say for "one two".comb(/\w+/) 03:21
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«one␤two␤»
perltricks aha, thanks avuserow let me try that
lue m: .say for "one two".words # even shorter, if you're specifically looking for /\w+/ 03:22
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«one␤two␤»
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perltricks thanks lue, will try that also 03:26
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FROGGS_ moritz: the LWP::Simple r-m* problems you mentioned make me think that we cannot have a star release *after* the compiler release anymore 07:36
moritz: I think we should do a star release and compiler release at the same time, so do not have regressions in star that require a point release
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moritz lue: iirc .words uses \S+, not \w+ 07:42
FROGGS correct 07:51
m: .say for "ohh, yeah".words
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«ohh,␤yeah␤»
moritz FROGGS: I dunno, the failures shoudl have been obvious from the rakudo-star-daily thingy 07:53
FROGGS moritz: nothing hangs on my box when I build r-m*
just checked
moritz FROGGS: maybe adding that to the release guide would help
FROGGS: it hung here on two different machines :(
FROGGS: does r-p* build the modules fine for you? 07:54
xfix perlcabal.org/syn/S03.html#line_1456 - interesting, ANSI C explicitly allows for operator looser in the precedence in middle part. But I guess it's because there is rarely an use for that.
FROGGS moritz: it did on wednesday, but I'll check in a minute
moritz (that is, no SORRY in the output) 07:55
FROGGS I see that LWP::Simple fails a test though (on r-m) 07:56
"Internal error: inconsistent bind result" 07:57
never seen that before
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masak FROGGS++ # a new internal error; well done! 09:31
FROGGS meh
:P
moritz git grep -i inconsistent in rakudo/nqp/parrot/moarvm doesn't yield that error message anywhere 09:32
any idea where it comes from? 09:33
FROGGS rakudo/src/Perl6/Metamodel/BOOTSTRAP.nqp:2927: nqp::die("Internal error: inconsistent bind result");
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jnthn waves from the mojoconf hackathon 09:45
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moritz oh, my local copy of rakudo is "a bit" out of date 09:45
like, 1225 commits
jnthn FROGGS: That means that the lowered signature code thought the bind failed, it fell back to the binder proper to generate an error message, and that then thought all was OK, and the internal error is 'cus that should not happen. 09:46
FROGGS hmmm
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jnthn agrees with moritz that we need to use the star-daily thingy to try and make sure we don't cut releases that bust stuff for Star 09:49
On the other hand, given it seems that that only some of us can re-produce the bug... 09:50
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jnthn FROGGS: Can you get me a condensed test case on the internal bind error? 10:01
FROGGS jnthn: gimme a minute 10:02
jnthn ok
I'm also looking into the crazy slowness of IO::Path.contents 10:03
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jnthn Uhh...yeah 10:09
Doing it 100 times hits the binder slow path around 30,000 times.
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jnthn We also hit it 78 times at startup now. 10:13
Wonder how much that is costing...
vendethiel that reminds me of String#hashCode which is itself called so much time in Java's library that the JIT optimized it already when your own program starts
jnthn wonders which on earth BUILD method is so costly... 10:14
vendethiel (what tools do you use for bottlenecks ?)
xfix timotimo++, I just noticed you (yes, I know, late, but I don't follow Perl 6 news lately) continued my old blog I didn't have time to write anymore. Also, it seems you write better posts than I did :-). 10:16
FROGGS jnthn: the lwp-simple problem is about this: gist.github.com/FROGGS/9228162347e3b4c03a18 10:18
jnthn: when I delete the LWP/Simple.moarvm, I get the gisted bt 10:19
and it passes when I disable spesh
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jnthn FROGGS: eek, yeah, that obj looks like junk 10:20
FROGGS I am not sure I can provide a one-liner though 10:21
but perhaps.... I create a shorter script that shows the problem 10:22
xfix I barely have time for programming and writing because of school.
(perhaps I should try Perl 6 again, and check how it improved...) 10:23
FROGGS xfix: you should :o)
xfix It was 6 months, after all. Is MoarVM usable now? 10:24
(or should I continue using Parrot Perl 6?)
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jnthn xfix: Many folks are using MoarVM as their Perl 6 backend of choice these days. 10:27
xfix: Worth it for the speedup. 10:28
xfix So, it's reasonably complete.
jnthn Well, it passes more spectests than any of the other backends by now.
So at least by that measure...
:)
Has full nativecall support too
xfix Interestnig.
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xfix Compared to Perl 5, how fast MoarVM Rakudo Perl is? 10:32
But considering Parrot's performance six months ago, it's probably comparable or faster. 10:34
moritz xfix: try it and see 10:35
xfix :-)
Right now it's compiling.
jnthn Comparison with Perl 5 varies greatly by benchmark.
xfix note: expected ‘char (*)(struct DCCallback *, struct DCArgs *, union DCValue *, void *)’ but argument is of type ‘char (*)(struct DCCallback *, struct DCArgs *, union DCValue *, struct MVMNativeCallback *)’ 10:36
I love overzealous compilers.
jnthn doesn't
The MSVC build of MoarVM is warning free. The clang build on OSX apparently spits out 1000 warnings o.O
xfix Well, I guess that void * in function is not compatible with struct MVMNativeCallback *, but it will work on most platforms. 10:37
jnthn gcc is a few
xfix Except for Emscripten if I remember correctly.
But considering MoarVM is JIT, I doubt it would work on Emscripten either way. 10:38
FROGGS three warning using gcc 10:39
warnings*
xfix I got one while compiling MoarVM.
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xfix gcc 4.8.1, if you ask. 10:40
FROGGS I've got also 4.8.1
jnthn I htink I have 3 on GCC... 10:41
I'll fix those is nobody else gets to them first.
The clang 1000 is just crazy though :)
xfix Why it would report way more than gcc? 10:42
FROGGS jnthn: I can't provide a simple case for the lwp-simple issue, the problem vanishes when I rip out random stuff
vendethiel (is clang bad ?)
I watched some C++ talks and they kept making fun of clang ;o)
jnthn vendethiel: Not bad, just different defaults, I guess :)
FROGGS I like clang
xfix For fish shell, I get two warnings in clang, and one in gcc. 10:43
vendethiel the little I used clang, it was just soo good because it was soo fast
xfix But let's be honest, before fixing them, clang reported way more.
Those two warnings that were left are about unused static functions for which calls are generated using preprocessor. 10:44
tadzik I think clang is awesome
xfix It is.
It found lots of legit issues in fish shell. 10:45
github.com/fish-shell/fish-shell/b...k.cpp#L804 10:46
Now I wonder who added __attribute__((unused)) here, and didn't add it anywhere else.
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xfix MoarVM installed, and it seems more responsive than Parrot. Interesting. 10:49
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xfix Its REPL still loads faster than Node.js's REPL, which is already quite great. 10:50
tadzik well, I started writing Steroids and games because Mokudo was faster than Typescript :) 10:52
xfix The only issue I see for now is that -e code loads in 0.8 seconds or so.
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xfix Typescript slower than Rakudo? What? 10:53
Aren't JavaScript implementations optimized really well?
tadzik well, startup-time wise
typescript needed like 3 seconds to compile an empty file
vendethiel xfix: they mean the compiler :-)
tadzik so I said "screw this, I'll write it in Perl 6"
vendethiel compile it is long, not running it
tadzik which is funny, since typescript compiler is written is JS which is supposed to be OMG FAST 10:54
xfix 3 seconds is faster than C++ that can easily compile for 2 days :-).
tadzik but it was super annoying to deal with
moritz xfix: I don't know any C++ compiler that takes >3s for an empty fie
xfix Hm, right.
I assumed that 3 seconds for a complete program. 10:55
tadzik well, Rakudo now takes more than 3 seconds to compile the entire steroids too
and it's possible that typescript is still at 3 :)
but the startup time was unbearable so I ditched it
xfix I remember compiling HHVM. It took so long that I just installed Fedora in VM, and downloaded the .rpm package in meantime.
(yes, it's PHP_) 10:56
tadzik I like Go :)
well, Hiphop is C++, I don't think it uses PHP in itself, does it
xfix Well, it's VM for PHP.
I like Go, but I cannot get used to the types being on the right side just because. 10:57
vendethiel go is bad :/
all hail rust !
xfix And this array declaration syntax which looks like []int. Like, why?
tadzik because writing function pointers isn't crazy like in C :) 10:58
and it all makes sense
xfix It's not even consistent. func main() should be main func() IMO. 10:59
tadzik *
FROGGS ohh dang, panda's sub local-fetch needs some love... 11:03
xfix And there is issue of Unicode support. It claims to be Unicode supporting programming language. It even has fmt.Println("Hello, 世界") on main page. 11:04
It even has some methods that only make sense in Unicode. But they don't work, strings.EqualFold("ss", "ß") returns false.
What's worse? Not having Unicode support, or claiming to have Unicode support without having it? 11:05
moritz xfix: the world isn't just black and white. Get used to it. 11:06
xfix: it simply could have Unicode support that's not perfect.
xfix I guess you are right here, but it still annoys me.
But it's annoying when according to Go, uppercase version of ß is ß. That's basic ISO-8859-1. 11:11
Then again, it's not that Rakudo does it better. 11:12
rn: say uc "ß" 11:13
camelia rakudo-jvm dca172: OUTPUT«SS␤»
..rakudo-{parrot,moar} dca172, niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«ß␤»
xfix But I assume it's just a bug in Rakudo.
moritz r-j does better. 11:14
xfix r-j: say uc "ß"
camelia rakudo-jvm dca172: OUTPUT«SS␤»
xfix I already know it was reported - rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=121377 11:15
tadzik isn't ß defined as case neutral in unicode? 11:16
xfix 00DF; 00DF; 0053 0073; 0053 0053; # LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
No, it's not.
tadzik The Unicode standard defines, that “ß” does not change when mapping to upper, title, or lower case.
xfix (according to SpecialCasing.txt) 11:17
tadzik no source for that above sentence though
just an internet comment that people didn't disagree wiht :)
xfix According to Unicode, \xDF is \xDF (lowercase), \x53\x73 (titlecase) or \x53\x53 (uppercase).
moritz tadzik: that comment is wrong; I recently looked it up 11:18
tadzik fair enough
xfix www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt - this is newest version of Unicode, if you want it. 11:20
In most cases ß is uppercased to SS. 11:22
Apparently ẞ is obligatory for official documentation when wriing geographical names in all-caps (141.74.33.52/stagn/Portals/0/101125_TopR5.pdf), but other than that, SS is being used. 11:23
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FROGGS xfix: I also had email conversation with german grammar officals, and it is quite possible that ẞ will be the offical ß.uc in a few years 11:29
which would result in an update to unicode of course 11:30
xfix Well, yes, but currently Unicode doesn't change this change.
FROGGS "change this change"? 11:31
xfix update for this change*
wasn't updated*
FROGGS the officals will only accept ẞ if it used more widely btw
xfix: unicode can't do that on its own 11:32
xfix That would be an interesting change.
Especially considering that ẞ was added rather recently. Windows Vista doesn't have ẞ character, but I bet that Microsoft would release an update if ẞ would be officially accepted. 11:33
(assuming that it will be changed before Vista end of support) 11:34
FROGGS ẞ is there since uniode 5.1 (2008) 11:37
not that recently
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tadzik hmm, I don't suppose there's something like nqp::getattr() that'll traverse the inheritance hierarchy for me? 11:50
FROGGS hehe
nice try :o) 11:51
tadzik :>
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tadzik that nice try would've saved me a 'for { ... try {' :P 11:51
tadzik is porting MooseX::StrictConstructor
jnthn
.oO( "It looks like you're after a method" )
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jnthn grr 12:02
So I got :enc(:$encoding) to work out for bind lowering, thus dealing with open, subst, etc.
Then I discovered match :/
:st(:nd(:rd(:th(:$nth))))
FROGGS :/ 12:03
jnthn just hacks it 12:04
timotimo o/ 12:05
xfix: thanks for your kind words
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xfix r: a: goto a; 12:08
camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm,moar} dca172: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Undeclared routine:␤ goto used at line 1␤␤»
jnthn It turns out the slow-path binder is less slow than I thought... Eliminating the 30,000 calls to it doesn't really make much difference to the IO::Path.contents slowness
xfix Any idea why 'a:' causes SIGSEGV in r-m (on my computer)? 12:09
(but only in REPL)
FROGGS hmmmm
jnthn No idea. Doesn't here in REPL for me.
xfix > a:
fish: Job 1, 'perl6' terminated by signal SIGSEGV (Address boundary error)
Strange.
FROGGS segfaults for me too :(
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jnthn Odd. No problems here. 12:10
xfix Perhaps it's x86_64 specific or something.
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jnthn is on x86_64... 12:11
xfix I have 3.11.10-7 kernel, but it's probably not about that.
Well, 3.11.10-7-desktop (openSUSE). 12:12
Let me check gdb...
(after I install it)
FROGGS xfix++ 12:14
xfix "/home/xfix/Code/rakudo/install/bin/perl6": not in executable format: File format not recognized
Hm...
It's a shell script. Ok. 12:15
gist.github.com/xfix/7313ed1b82d2047f7faa 12:18
huh
FROGGS xfix: you need a MoarVM --debug=3 build 12:19
xfix Hm, ok
FROGGS you don't need to reinstall nqp/rakudo afterwards btw 12:20
xfix So, I guess I have to recompile Moar.
FROGGS just reconfigure MoarVM, and provide --prefix and --debug=3
xfix I installed Rakudo using --gen-moar.
FROGGS --prefix needs to point to your install directory
xfix And there is --moar-option
I guess I have to download Moar then. 12:22
jnthn now has a Rakudo that doesn't hit the slow-path binder at all at startup
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jnthn or match/subst 12:22
xfix Heh, fish shell still calls sed on startup. 12:23
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FROGGS jnthn: do you recognize a speed improvement? 12:25
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jnthn Not a great one... 12:26
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pippo o/ #perl6 12:26
jnthn I mean, it knows some off IO::Path.contents
xfix Hi, pippo.
jnthn But it appears not to be the main thing that makes it costly
Even though 100 of them did it 30,000 times 12:27
pippo xfix: same problem as yours on my box here. I have a 32bits machine.
xfix: btw also on perl6-j REPL.
xfix gist.github.com/xfix/8aa1ba6cb3d9f8679654 12:28
Is it useful enough?
FROGGS xfix: yeah 12:29
it tries to unbox_s a NULL object
xfix Why it would do that... 12:30
FROGGS I dunno 12:31
but I will find out
xfix Anyway, I have to go away
FROGGS thanks for the backtrace :o) 12:32
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dalek p: b436340 | jonathan++ | / (3 files):
Support having a pair of possible parameter names.

Just on MoarVM backend for now, but that's the only one that lowers Perl 6 signatures at present.		 12:36
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dalek kudo/nom: 10d5c92 | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
Lower attributive parameter binds.
 12:38
kudo/nom: 9df1a8c | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
Lower :a(:$amaze) in signatures.
kudo/nom: 33e16f0 | jonathan++ | src/core/Str.pm:
Tweak match signature to be lowerable.

With this, we never hit the slow-path binder on startup, and avoid it on all the calls to match.
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tadzik "A class's explicit method definition hides any role definition of the same name", says S14. Is there a way to call it anyway? 12:41
vendethiel tadzik: .RoleName.method ? .*method ?
tadzik nah, doesn't work 12:42
masak m: role R { method foo { say "R!" } }; class C does R { method foo { say "C!" } }; C.new::R.foo
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find symbol 'new'␤»
masak m: role R { method foo { say "R!" } }; class C does R { method foo { say "C!" } }; C.new()::R.foo 12:43
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/GVUay61J3v␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/GVUay61J3v:1␤------> s R { method foo { say "C!" } }; C.new()⏏::R.foo␤ expecting any of:␤ method arguments␤ ar…»
jnthn ummm...
masak m: role R { method foo { say "R!" } }; class C does R { method foo { say "C!" } }; C.new().R::foo
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«R!␤»
tadzik hmm
masak got the syntax wrong first. but there it is.
tadzik how about from C.foo? :)
jnthn in IO::Path.contents
We do 12:44
next unless $elem ~~ $test;
And then a few lines later
take $elem.path if $elem ~~ $test;
Meaning we're doing the test twice?
tadzik m: role Bar { method meth { say "from role" } }; class Foo does Bar { method meth { say "from class"; Bar::meth } }; Foo.meth
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«from class␤===SORRY!===␤Could not find symbol '&meth'␤»
jnthn That won't be helping its speed...
tadzik masak: that's what I want to do here
jnthn tadzik: self.Bar::meth 12:45
tadzik maybe I get the syntax wrong too
aha!
jnthn++
masak yeah, it's still a method call.
I used to not like the syntax, feeling it mixed together roles with module 'our' sub lookup.
tadzik and I guess I can do that with callwith() too
masak but nowadays I think it's fairly brilliant. 12:46
tadzik or something
jnthn FROGGS: Do you know if the test in contents is meant to happen on the fully qualified path after we catfile, or on the unqualified one?
FROGGS: Feels wrong to do it on both...
FROGGS jnthn: what test on contents? 12:48
jnthn FROGGS: In IO::Path.contents 12:49
We try $test twice.
next unless $elem ~~ $test;
$elem := $.SPEC.catfile($!path, $elem) if self ne '.';
if $elem.substr(0, 2) eq any("./", ".\\") {
$elem := $elem.substr(2);
}
take $elem.path if $elem ~~ $test;
There's so much fail in here... 12:50
Just avoe
*above
my Str $elem := nqp::nextfiledir($dirh);
if nqp::isnull_s($elem) || !$elem.chars {
isnull_s is meant to be used on a native str...
FROGGS hmmm 12:51
I've seen that we test twice yesterday or so... but we also modify $elem in between 12:53
jnthn yeah but...only on Moar
on JVM we check it once
tadzik I ported MooseX::StrictConstructor to Perl 6: github.com/tadzik/ClassX-StrictConstructor 12:55
it was fun :)
I wonder if I should maybe reuse some existing exception class, but X::Attribute::Undeclared only supports one attribute 12:56
and I feel it's more helpful to show them all
Juerd What does .^ do and does anybody know a way to google for punctuation? :) 12:57
Or another search engine
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masak tadzik++ # boa constrictconstructor 12:58
tadzik Juerd: calls to MOP
Juerd Thanks
masak Juerd: $obj.^meth == $obj.HOW.meth($obj)
tadzik and no, I don't know how to search for punctuation 12:59
vendethiel m: role R { method foo { say "R!" } }; class C does R { method foo { say "C!" } }; C.new().R.foo # what's that ambigous with ?
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«No such method 'R' for invocant of type 'C'␤ in block at /tmp/SKp2ZG4DVx:1␤␤»
vendethiel oh, it's left associative ?
dalek kudo/nom: 2c54ffd | jonathan++ | src/core/IO.pm:
Various optimizations to IO::Path.contents.

Eliminate duplicate application of $test on MoarVM; probably just an accident in porting. Then do a range of other optimizations. Cuts the time taken to less than half of what it was.
tadzik hm. I can remove nextsame; from the end of Boa::Constrictor's new(), and tests will still work
vendethiel m: role R { method foo { say "R!" } }; class C does R { method foo { say "C!" } }; C.new().(R::foo) # what's that ambigous with ?
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find symbol '&foo'␤»
Juerd Not being able to search for punctuation has always been annoying when learning Perl... Maybe I'll create an operator lookup web thingy.
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tadzik I wonder if tests are lacking, or is it indeed unnecessary :) 12:59
vendethiel Juerd: "poogle", like hoogle :P 13:00
Juerd ?
jnthn FROGGS: Hopefully the various patches today alleviate your .contents slowness issues a little.
vendethiel Juerd: haskell.org/hoogle
Juerd Ah, I was googling for poogle and found nothing relevant :)
This does look like something we could use indeed 13:01
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masak tadzik: well, can you think of a situation where 'nextsame' would make an observational difference? 13:01
tadzik masak: I just thought of one 13:02
FROGGS jnthn: that'd be nice :o)
tadzik masak: gist.github.com/tadzik/815aa29efaebd5d15adf
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tadzik this outputs "new from B\nnew from A" 13:03
FROGGS installing v5 using panda takes more than 10m
tadzik if teh class weren't using the StrictConrnsyarntoa it would never say "new from A"
so the nextsame is rong
masak aye.
tadzik: minor thing, but I saw github.com/tadzik/ClassX-StrictCon...ctor.pm#L6 and thought "hm, using the private forms in that string means that a subclass cannot polymorphically override typename and extras in that message" 13:04
jnthn FROGGS: Almost all the rest of the time is taken up in evaluating the test...
masak tadzik: usually, I use the ! forms in command methods and the . forms in query methods, for this reason... YMMV. 13:05
tadzik masak: hm, I see 13:06
but speaking of this nextsame, I found a counter-example
FROGGS jnthn: looks like I need to profile my use-case and then come up with something sane :o)
tadzik m: class A { method new { say "new from A" } }; class B is A { }; B.new
camelia rakudo-moar dca172: OUTPUT«new from A␤»
FROGGS my brane is not very capable of doing this right now sadly
tadzik so adding a StrictConstructor to B should not change anything
so A.new still should get called
so nextsame is necessary after all 13:07
jnthn FROGGS: Well, looks like Junction.ACCEPT being slow is muchly to blame. 13:08
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FROGGS