»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
gtodd except ... the aliens abduct all the ways of building software: auto-%@$, CMake ,rake, scons, waf, ant, ninja ... Inf 01:42
firefish5000 m: class Person { has $.Is=$0 if "very sensable" ~~ m{(.+)}; has $.IsNot=$0 if "Insane" ~~ m{(.+)}; }; my $FireFish = Person.new(); say "I am {$FireFish.Is}"; 05:06
camelia rakudo-moar b5032f: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 05:07
vendethiel o/, #perl6 05:37
ingy \/\/\o vendethiel! 05:53
moritz \o 06:51
_slade_ oﾊﾊ八八ﾉヽﾉヽﾉヽﾉ ＼ / ＼/ ＼ 06:52
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: 24e8143 | raydiak++ | web/index.tmpl:
Re-enable js search w/less truncation. See issue 5
 07:45
moritz raydiak++ 07:51
raydiak :) thanks...doesn't fix the dt/dd issue, but I figured it's better than a broken search box (or none at all) 07:53
nwc10 timotimo: Elizabeth has just spotted the Camelia on the APW site - "wow - that's very nice" 07:55
argh
TimToady: Elizabeth has just spotted the Camelia on the APW site - "wow - that's very nice" 07:56
timotimo: that might also be intersting to you, but it's probably more amusing to him
FROGGS nwc10: I like the shirt design very much btw :o) 07:59
nwc10 FROGGS: I don't think that the designer will be in Salzburg, but you'll probably see her friend/our contact at the same time as me, so you could pass that on directly. 08:01
FROGGS nwc10: will do that :o) 08:02
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org:">modules.perl6.org: fd86dda | moritz++ | web/lib/P6Project/Hosts/Github.pm:
Fix error reporting on older Mojolicious versions
 08:12
Ven what's the last date for registering a talk to apw2014? 08:16
moritz modules.perl6.org now all fixed, and 90% awesome 08:18
FROGGS Ven: perhaps ask nwc10 directly 08:20
Ven nwc10: ping :)
nwc10 Ven: hi. I might vanish without notice 08:21
Ven nwc10: hi. what's the last date for submitting a talk (apw2014)?
nwc10 Ven: other than lightning talks, it may well have passed. The schedule is already very full 08:22
I have actually lost track of what the revised date was
I'm on holiday (or is that "holiday") and I'm really not in a position to work anything out 08:23
Ven ha, because the form is still available
nwc10 if you have sufficient abstract ready that it's a copy-paste job, then you're welcome to submit a talk, but the others might have to reject it because it won't fit 08:24
Ven: that wouldn't surprise me
Ven eh
raydiak moritz++ # un-breaking things
nwc10 Ven: I've not been looking after the site, nor dealing with the talks 08:25
moritz raydiak: I also broke it in the first place :-)
Ven nwc10: alright. Next one: do you need to submit your real name in order to do a talk?
nwc10 Ven: I don't think so. Zefram often doesn't use his real name, nor does chromatic 08:26
raydiak moritz: you wouldn't have broken it if you weren't improving it in the zeroth place :)
moritz I think of "chromatic" as chromatic's real name. It's very real to me, even it's not his legal name
Ven Well, I guess I'll submit "Perl 6 and the other cheek" 08:27
raydiak sleep time...good morning and good night #perl6 o/ 08:31
Ven well, submitted a 20min talk, I hope it'll go in :( 08:36
timotimo is it that x creates strings and xx creates lists because a string is one thing and a list is many things? 09:20
(very roughly)
moritz yes 09:21
timotimo cute 09:22
dalek kudo/nom: e4adb29 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/IO/Spec/Unix.pm:
Remove my @ sillyness, any Iterative will do
 11:21
ast: d8a8632 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-io/io-spec-unix.t:
Make IO::Spec::Unix.path tests more sensible
 11:22
dalek ecs: b89831b | (L. Grondin)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
fix minor syntax error
 11:28
dalek ecs: 66edfbe | (L. Grondin)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
adding missing =over
 11:35
ast: fc2dbbe | usev6++ | S04-declarations/multiple.t:
Add ticket number RT #83430 to existing test
 11:40
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...l?id=83430
lizmat errands& 12:02
timotimo it's been a month since the first batch of videos of yapceu has been released; i wonder what's keeping them and if we can do anything to help? 12:30
.o( or even obtain raw videos for the talks i'm interested in :P )
dalek kudo-star-daily: b746522 | coke++ | log/MoarVM-version.log:
today (automated commit)
 12:33
dalek rl6-roast-data: c8f369f | coke++ | / (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 12:45
rl6-roast-data: b535377 | coke++ | bin/ (2 files):
Remove rakudo.jvm from the daily runs

it's taking over 24 hours to run rakudo with moar,moar-jit,parrot & jvm. Nearly all the time is spent on rakudo.jvm. - this is a performance regression in the past 2-3 days.
dalek rl6-roast-data: 800882f | coke++ | perl6_pass_rates.csv:
annotate last 2 jvm runs.
 12:46
grondilu timotimo: no P6-related videos yet indeed. It's almost as if they were censored or something. 12:50
timotimo i find that highly unlikely
grondilu what's the explanation then? It's not like posting video on YouTube takes a month, is it? 12:51
timotimo could be anything, really 12:52
the person who was supposed to cut the videos may be on vacation/sick
computer dead
timotimo trouble extracting the raw video from the cameras? 12:52
backup tapes can't be located?
grondilu if there was a technical incident it would be mentioned somewhere, wouldn't it? 12:53
jkg I tend to assume "volunteers running out of spare time" 12:53
yeahnoob where's the video? 12:54
timotimo www.youtube.com/user/yapceu/videos 12:55
[Coke] never assume malice where life is a probably cause.
*probable. (arglebargle!)
yeahnoob Maybe i can Translate&Add Chinese language subtitle for it. if it's not too long. 12:56
timotimo is someone in a yapceu channel or something and can ask what's up? 12:59
grondilu can tweet them 13:02
timotimo that would be interesting
grondilu not sure I still quite understand how twitter works but here is my attempt: twitter.com/grondilu/status/517298929965477888 13:06
timotimo that sounds a bit more like "fuck you, give me the videos", whereas i would have suggested something more like "can we help get this out faster?"
grondilu yeah with hindsight that was not very diplomatic 13:08
timotimo they are not our enemy, using the word "diplomatic" is also undiplomatic in this situation :P
yeahnoob " 25/08/14 Lost laptop Guys, we have lost one of the conference laptops. A metallic Asus Zenbook. If anyone have found it. Please contact me."
grondilu it's a good thing I can remove tweets
yeahnoob from act.yapc.eu/ye2014/. Is that the lost video in the ladtop? 13:09
timotimo yeahnoob: look a line above that: NB: talks from the main room Vitosha will take a little longer, as they had a much more complicated setup. We'll post here and on twitter as soon as they're ready!
sounds like the videos wouldn't be on that laptop
nine It's quite common for converence videos to take even a couple of months to show up online. 13:12
grondilu That's quite difficult to believe, but I guess in these matters there are factors I'm totally oblivious of. 13:14
timotimo unless you've contracted NextDayVideo
PerlJam wonders how complicated the setup was for Vitosha that it's taking so long ... the videos for the other rooms were up in just a couple of weeks. 13:20
nine Volunteer organized conference: lots of work, getting more and more stressful the closer the conference is, followed by a couple of extremely intense days with even more work and stress. Then it's finally over. You need some time to relax. Then some time to follow up on lots of stuff you pushed out because you were busy with the conference. Good that the conference is over. Oh I forgot, there's some videos to upload. Not much motivation because there's no deadline 13:30
nine Also the complicated setup could be that video and audio were not recorded on the same device. So they'll have to cut and sync them again. Tedious work. 13:33
PerlJam aye. 13:36
gtodd nine: hmm if only ACT included a builtin perl/jscript based video web app that could grab footage from laptop onboard cams .. :-) 13:55
moritz that would be aweful quality 13:57
gtodd heh 13:58
nine Better wait for a few months than hardly understanding a word due to low audio quality ;) 13:59
gtodd hehe yeah but in those scifi futures in the movies automagically streaming recording, editing, subtitlling, translating and mixing randomly errm "supplied" video streams is trivial .... 14:00
because in the future they have p6 :-)
moritz I'm mostly amazed that in scifi movies, they can immediately decode any incoming video stream 14:04
nine moritz: they obviously just use mplayer
moritz no missing codecs or unknown streaming formats etc.
nine: :-)
gtodd nine: :-D 14:08
in the future you never have upgrade "Adobe Flash Player" 14:09
(which always makes me think "Adobe bought Flash? Oh yeah ...")
gtodd camelia: m: say "jubilation"; 14:47
camelia gtodd: rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«jubilation␤»
gtodd speedy
japhb botsnack 15:32
yoleaux 30 Sep 2014 19:08Z <timotimo> japhb: the only relevant thing i see is --skip-incomplete, but it doesn't change anything :(
japhb timotimo: OK, back. So ... are you running `bench compare` or `bench history`? 15:33
timotimo: Also, pretty please p6weekly? It's may main source of #perl6 goings on these days. :-)
*my
timotimo japhb: this was bench history 16:47
also ... oh yeah the weekly :S
gtodd heh 16:50
timotimo my energy levels seem to be far from over 9000 these days
gtodd could change the name to p6timely
and or weekly could be read as a range ... 16:51
38 .. 41
dalek rlito: b0e7ab7 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | Makefile:
Perlito5 - use 'nodejs' in Makefile
 16:57
dalek rlito: 6f48b7a | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (3 files):
Perlito5 - fix associativity of && and ||
 17:01
grondilu m: multi f($a, $b where $a|$b == 0) { 0 }; multi f($a, $b where $a == $b) { "==" }; say f(0, 0); # can I rely on this behavior? (higher priority for junctions or something? 17:02
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«0␤» 17:02
timotimo that junction isn't visible to the multi dispatch
it's part of an opaque "where block" type of thing
grondilu doesn't understand 17:03
timotimo the multiple dispatch code doesn't see a difference between the $a|$b == 0 and the $a == $b things 17:04
grondilu then why does he pick one?
vendethiel first one?
tries to match it, it does, yay
grondilu I would have expected an "ambiguous" error or something 17:05
vendethiel it's not ambigous
ambiguous*. Not really.
It's very useful to have "cascading matches"
grondilu m: multi f($ where * %% 2) { 2 }; multi f($a where * %% 3) { 3 }; say f(6); # indeed it picks the first one 17:06
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«2␤»
grondilu I don't quite understand how I managed to get an "ambiguous call" error once. (in a very different code, though) 17:07
grondilu doesn't remember the exact phrasing of the error
grondilu looks in rakudo's code 17:08
grondilu finds X::Multi::Ambiguous
grondilu then wonders when exactly X::Multi::Ambiguous is raised 17:09
timotimo m: multi f(Int $a, Cool $b) { 1 }; multi f (Cool $a, Int $b) { 2 }; f(1, 1);
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'f'; these signatures all match:␤:(Int $a, Cool $b)␤:(Cool $a, Int $b)␤ in sub f at /tmp/1MmXiAF4nW:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/1MmXiAF4nW:1␤␤»
grondilu ok
grondilu m: grep { ($_ == 5) ff ($_ == 7) }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5; # is there a more concise way to write this? 17:33
camelia ( no output )
grondilu m: say grep { ($_ == 5) ff ($_ == 7) }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5; # is there a more concise way to write this?
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5 2 7 5␤»
timotimo m: say grep { 5 ff 7 }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5 17:34
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«3 4 5 2 7 9 5␤»
timotimo ah, not quite
m: say grep { $_ ~~ (5 ff 7) }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5 17:35
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«␤»
timotimo also not quite that
how do i ff.
grondilu m: say grep { /5/ ff /7/ }, 3, 4, 5, 2, 7, 9, 5
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5 2 7 5␤»
grondilu ^this would work but I'd like to keep it numeric
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: ab6916b | raydiak++ | source/compilers/index.html:
Un-break box styling on the Compilers page
 17:40
timotimo yay
spider-mario: do you have time to build a rakudo-star 2014.09 package on aur soon? 17:41
raydiak o/ afternoon all 17:42
timotimo how are you doing, raydiak? :) 17:45
spider-mario oh, sorry, I was going to but I forgot
(school, etc.)
thanks for reminding me 17:46
timotimo that's all right :)
it's just i talked about perl6 with an arch user yesterday
so i noticed the version is behind a month
which is pretty fantastic compared to some other packagings we've had in the past
spider-mario I also provide a binary repo, but I’m not sure many people know about it 17:47
it has little visibility
wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Unoff...ies#rakudo 17:48
timotimo that looks pretty hidden, aye
raydiak timotimo: eh, this is not a good year for me so far...but un-breaking things is theraputic :) how are you? 17:49
timotimo i'm okay. currently in a writer's block / low energy mode kind of phase :\ 17:50
raydiak do season changes do that to you? 17:51
timotimo i'm not sure
timotimo i don't remember such a phase from last year 17:52
xfix Hello.
raydiak o/ xfix
timotimo ohai xfix!
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: d2b09dd | (Konrad Borowski)++ | README.md:
Testing site under IE6 and IE7 is unnecessary.

Who uses that, anyway? XP is not supported anymore, anyway.		 17:53
xfix How is Perl 6 going? The Blogs link on Perl 6 page is dead. 17:55
timotimo ah, yes, planetaria :( 17:55
planetaria kinda died
xfix I see.
timotimo pl6anet.org/ 17:56
when did you last check in?
xfix Long time ago.
Perhaps a few months before.
timotimo so you missed moarvm getting a jit?
xfix No.
I come here very rarely, however.
timotimo OK
jnthn grondilu: "where" clauses in multi-dispatch work like smart-match (they actually do .ACCEPTS on the thing you supply, even), meaning whichever matches first wins. I did try and get it to be ambiguous instead, but TimToady won that one, and these days I think it was probably the right call.
xfix timotimo: Do you think perl6.org should be changed to include pl6anet instead?
timotimo did you notice Inline::Perl5 getting up? 17:57
xfix Yes.
jnthn made it home
And oh wow...it's SO quiet.
timotimo hey jnthn!
glad to see you :)
jnthn Almost unnervingly quiet.
:)
jnthn notes he has been awake > 20 hours by now, so should not be asked anything important this evening ;) 17:58
timotimo is P == NP?
jnthn I did read lots of papers on the plane, and get some decent thinking/design time, though :)
timotimo oh awesome
i guess it was a high percentage of escape analysis related stuff?
xfix timotimo: That still wasn't solved (unless Perl 6 solved it while I was away) :-). 17:59
jnthn timotimo: Yes, if the constant factors are infinite... :P
vendethiel xfix: xp is actually still supported ;-)
timotimo xfix: what is "that"?
xfix Yeah, I know, this Microsoft update for security issue.
timotimo: P == NP.
However, moritz pushed the version to care about from IE6 to IE8, but didn't update the IE5.5 below. 18:00
jnthn timotimo: No, though masak and I did a couple of esc patches at BJ airport today...will push them from my laptop later...or tomorrow...
timotimo oh, cool :) 18:01
xfix And to be honest, I don't think this site works under IE6 anyway. Not that it has to. If somebody still uses IE6, the chance that this someone is interested in Perl 6 is close to 0 (if you still keep this old program...).
jnthn timotimo: Was more pondering native arrays, and parametricity in general...
timotimo that sounds great
jnthn Well, I might have come up with something that solves a bunch of problems at once... :) We'll see. I'll need a day or two to get it down coherently. :)
raydiak is the moar jit enabled by default yet? 18:02
nine jnthn: and probably a night or two to recover ;)
timotimo raydiak: we want that, but i don't know if anyone patched it yet
raydiak so it's pretty much stable? 18:04
timotimo we hope so :) 18:05
worst case we turn the default around before the next release
we want to at least get it tested more heavily from now on
nine Seems like parsing an 11000 lines file with a grammar is a bit too ambitious
jnthn nine: We parse a 20,000+ line one every single Rakudo build... 18:06
timotimo did you see how big the core setting is? we parse that in 25 seconds on moar nowadays
however, that's with a grammar built in nqp
raydiak cool, thanks for the info timotimo++
timotimo and action methods in nqp
which is known to be faster than perl6 in many cases
vendethiel
.oO( nqp-ing is overrated )
jnthn True, there's still some gap to close...
jnthn On JIT by default, I think I said I was fine wiht it, somebody could patch it, or I'd do it once I was back in action :) 18:07
timotimo gist.github.com/timo/fa6d113e897c9f1e1905 - does this seem sane?
xfix My personal opinion is that P == NP, however, you need infinite-length data structures to actually solve NP problems in P time. Not that this is useful in practice, however. 18:09
nine 7 minutes and 2.6 GiB RAM and still running. Is there anything obvious to keep in mind/avoid when writing such a grammar? 18:10
moritz nine: don't use left-recursion
timotimo do you have only a grammar or are you also building stuff with your actions?
moritz nine: also, don't quantify a rule that might match zero characters 18:11
timotimo (like <ws>)
nine timotimo: no actions yet
timotimo hm, interesting 18:12
xfix / ''* / # will always cause an infinite loop with current implementations (in future, Perl 6 implementation may notice this, but don't expect more than exception)
timotimo can you get a shorter input file and run a --profile with your moarvm?
timotimo also, putting some debug say statements at the end of some complex rules or something ... 18:14
or maybe you're trying to print the result of the matching, which may take a loooong time trying to concatenate lots of strings ...
xfix I think that Rakudo debugger supports regexes. 18:15
jnthn timotimo: Yes, though it's more about whether to build the JIT than enable/disable
nine oh indeed
I am printing the results
timotimo jnthn: oh? 18:16
jnthn --no-jit would match better with existing options we have
timotimo: You can disable it with MVM_JIT_DISABLE even if it's built
timotimo oh
well, i can rename them
jnthn timotimo: The command line flag means "don't even try building it"
timotimo but the change makes the previous behavior of --enable-jit the default 18:17
jnthn --no-jit works for me
Right, agree it does the right thing
timotimo or --without-jit
jnthn But no other option we have is called --without
We should at least pretend to believe in consistency... :)
timotimo OK
i must be AFK soon, so not sure if i'll fix up the patch soon 18:18
jnthn should go buy some food :)
np
timotimo and i still have to write the weekly ...
bon appetit :)
jnthn I'll probably eat something, write a "yes I got home safely don't worry about me" mail, and sleep... :)
jnthn bbl, or bbt... :) 18:19
xfix On sidenote, how fast Perl 6 boot time is now (on MoarVM, let's say)? 18:23
Is it faster than Perl 5 with Moose?
grondilu it was said to be so indeed 18:24
timotimo 15% less time than perl5 with moose
xfix Sounds great.
Last time I was here, it was slower than Moose.
PerlJam Though they're both moving targets as Moose gets improved too 18:25
xfix Moose was there for a while, it doesn't change that much, does it? 18:25
psch hi #perl6 18:27
xfix Hi, psch.
psch tr/// adverbs are confusing
(also i was apparently too slow to quit irssi and stick it into a screen)
bloomberg timotimo: yeah, the weekly. I've been waiting for that
psch Str.trans adverb are similarly confusing, of course
especially as neither 1) are implemented or 2) specced 18:28
xfix Well, tr/// works like tr in UNIX shell (and y/// in sed, of course).
psch xfix: neither of those have :squash or :complement, afaik
PerlJam xfix: I dunno ... ether did a Moose release 5 days ago.
psch i guess i'll spec them according to what i think the spectest means they mean
xfix Oh right. Well, I personally don't use those flags. 18:29
psch although short forms should probably not be confuseable with other short forms for s/// 18:29
xfix (they exist for compatibility with Perl 5, I believe)
perldoc.perl.org/perlop.html#tr/SEA...TLIST/cdsr 18:30
Perl 5 has documentation for these, but it's rather confusing.
PerlJam what's confusing about it? :)
psch xfix: thanks, i hadn't looked there. i guess i don't need to spec them, iff our spec still is "if it's not described, it's as it is in p5" 18:31
xfix The behavior of /c, /s, and /d.
psch where the last not-quoted 'is' is "behaves as", or some such :)
xfix I can see how tr may provide performance enhancements in rare situations, but that doesn't change that its behaviour is rather strange, especially with options. 18:33
flussence for the sake of people's sanity, the spec should probably specify "same as p5" means v5.8.8 (if it doesn't already)
PerlJam xfix: How is its behavior strange? It's always seemed straight-forward to me. 18:34
xfix I just don't get how it works. And why actually use those options.
Sure, you can write tr/a-zA-Z/ /cs. But so you can write s/[^a-zA-Z]+/ /g, which is more readable in my opinion (but to be honest, you should use Unicode letters meta character). 18:35
dalek rl6-roast-data: 07d545b | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 18:36
[Coke] ^^ no jvm runs because too slow.
PerlJam xfix: sounds like you're saying, because this more powerful thing exists that can do the same job, we don't need the special-purpose tool. 18:37
[Coke] Please let me know if moar-jit becomes the default. 18:38
moritz [Coke]: jnthn++ plans to make it the default, if nobody objects 18:39
xfix I just think that tr/// looks like an old feature that maps just exists here to make moving from sed to Perl easier.
[Coke] I assume that some platforms JIT will not occur, so I'll still need to test the non jit version with an env. variable...
xfix that just exists here*
PerlJam moar-jit default +1
xfix: maybe I've just got a soft spot for tr/// since I've used it so long :) 18:40
xfix That makes sense.
[Coke] does anyone have bench runs with recent commits of rakudo.jvm ? 18:41
xfix I just don't see how it's useful, unless you do something really special. I cannot think of examples that wouldn't be contrived, however.
[Coke] btw, rakudo.moar & parrot all test clean.
moritz [Coke]: fwiw I'm installing the oracle java 8 package right now 18:42
PerlJam xfix: flip side ... I just don't see why I should fire up the regex engine just to do some simple character replacements. :) 18:43
xfix That makes sense.
But well, I personally don't care about micro-optimisation. 18:44
PerlJam xfix: sometimes it's about optimization, but often it's also about saying what you mean. 18:44
vendethiel a.replace(from.split X=> to.split) :D
xfix One of contrived examples is tr/234/122/s which replaces all instances of 2 with 1, and all instances of 3 and 4 with 2 while squashing replacements.
I also don't really like thinking about characters. Usually a single character in a string doesn't matter. Entire strings are manipulated. substr is very rare. 18:46
brrt wonders if we're going to see a new flurry of JIT bugs if it will become default 18:48
timotimo m: token word { \w+ }; rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" } 18:49
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my token word'?)␤Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my rule phrase'?)␤No such method 'phrase' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤ in method ACCEPTS a…»
vendethiel brrt: computers might break down,yes 18:50
timotimo m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" }
camelia ( no output )
timotimo m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there.\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" }
camelia ( no output )
vendethiel
.oO( that's why we need continuations : ATNs ! )
 18:51
timotimo what are ATNs? 18:53
also, who knows what's wrong with my matching up there?
it seems to match fine up until the . and then maybe gets confused by the \n? 18:54
vendethiel timotimo: augmented transition network
timotimo m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \. }; if "hey, there." ~~ / <phrase> / { say "yay" } 18:55
vendethiel (tended to be used for sentence parsing)
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«yay␤»
vendethiel \n is "n"? 18:55
:P
vendethiel (in the regexp, that is.) 18:55
timotimo i don't think so :S 18:56
m: say "\n" ~~ / \n /
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«｢␤｣␤␤»
vendethiel fair enough
timotimo m: say "hello\n" ~~ / \w+ \n /
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«｢hello␤｣␤␤»
timotimo m: say "hello.\n" ~~ / \w+ \. \n /
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«｢hello.␤｣␤␤»
grondilu good to know : using a double entry cache is much slower than concatenating the keys: 18:59
(my %){rand}{rand} = rand for ^100_000; # ~ 22s on my machine
grondilu (my %){rand ~ "|" ~ rand} = rand for ^100_000; # less than 10s 19:00
moritz thie first allocates 100k hashes more
*the
raydiak timotimo: the trailing space in the phrase rule is gobbling up the \n, so the \n in the final regex doesn't have anything to match
raydiak m: my token word { \w+ }; my rule phrase { <word> [ \, <word> ]* \.}; if "hey, there.\n" ~~ / <phrase> \n / { say "yay" } 19:01
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«yay␤»
timotimo ooooh
of course
sigspace bites many people often, i believe ...
vendethiel :) 19:02
pmqs Quick question when someone has a moment - I'm running R* 2014.09. When I installed Compress::Zlib::Raw using ufo I ended up with a Raw.pm6 and a Raw.moarvm file under the site/lib tree. If I install the same module via panda I get Raw.pm6 and Raw.pm6.moarvm. The latter is more consistent with the naming of all the other modules that came with R*. Is this a bug in ufo? 19:05
moritz pmqs: yes, ufo is outdated 19:07
pmqs: (it used to be Raw.moarvm)
pmqs is there an alternative? 19:08
nine Indeed now that I fixed a bug in my grammar it finishes in a mere 3 seconds :) 19:09
[Coke] panda 19:10
Which I think is in the docs?
(which you already mentioned)
pmqs can panda install a module that's been downloaded?
PerlJam pmqs: I use "panda install ." in git clones all the time. 19:11
nine pmqs: AFAIK yes
pmqs ok - I'll checkout the panda docs - must have missed that 19:11
[Coke] doesn't look like it's in panda --help 19:13
github.com/tadzik/panda mentions it at the end of the README.
pmqs ok - see it now
pmqs thanks folks 19:14
timotimo hm, the documentation still refers to Pies, Pls and ufobuilder; are those actually still there at all?
ecocode perl devroom @ Fosdem 2015 has been accepted 19:18
(for info)
vendethiel nice :)
pmqs timotimo: I ended up trying ufo because the README for a module said that was how to do an install. Also it was in the modules list at modules.perl6.org
timotimo thereis apparently much chaos in our presentation; someone™ should update ufo quickly 19:19
ecocode devroom will be on saturday 31 January 2015. Reserve the date and send proposals (probably best to Wendy or Claudio)! I hope there will be lots of perl6 talks :) 19:24
jdv79 sorry. i lost it. where's the new planet?
masak is back in .se 19:27
hi, #perl6
masak sleeps, hard
timotimo pl6anet.org/ ← jdv79 19:27
timotimo AFK 19:28
jdv79 i was trying p6lanet... thanks timotimo! 19:41
lizmat [Coke]: will run a jvm spectest here in a minute, see if it's a lot slower than before or not 19:42
last one I did: Files=916, Tests=33552, 2428 wallclock secs ( 5.65 usr 2.11 sys + 22.92 cusr 4.81 csys = 35.49 CPU)
clearly the CPU usage is incorrect
spider-mario my newly built rakudo 2014.09 on parrot 6.8 hangs 19:49
the repl doesn’t start
(neither does nqp-p)
no such problem with the moarvm build
bartolin m: my $a is readonly = 5; ## should not compile, RT 65900
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/UWPX1K_Q3t␤Can't use unknown trait 'is readonly' in a variable declaration.␤at /tmp/UWPX1K_Q3t:1␤------> my $a is readonly ⏏= 5; ## should not compile, RT 65900␤ expe…»
bartolin m: my ($a is readonly) = 5; ## shouldn't that fail the same way?
camelia ( no output )
bartolin m: my ($a is readonly) = 5; say $a; ## shouldn't that fail the same way? 19:50
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5␤»
timotimo jdv79: yeah, i'm not sure what the person getting that domain was thinking ... maybe because of .pl6?
spider-mario oh, it doesn’t exactly hang 19:51
it doesn’t print the '> ' prompt, and cannot run anything
any instruction results in: 19:52
seek failed: -1
current instr.: '' pc 26739 (gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.pir:10264) (gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1084)
(several lines…)
called from Sub '' pc 1222 (src/gen/perl6.pir:438) (gen/parrot/main.nqp:55)
spider-mario it happens both with a “plain” rakudo and with rakudo star 19:53
but only with the parrot backend in both cases
lizmat spider-mario: what OS ? 19:57
spider-mario arch linux
“This is nqp version 2014.09 built on parrot 6.8.0 revision 0” 19:58
lizmat actually, I see similar REPL breakage with HEAD 19:58
> my $a = 42; say $a
Null PMC access in get_string()
seems REPL specific: $ perl6-p -e 'my $a = 42; say $a' 19:59
42
vendethiel I've seen this error for the longest time, actually
but only on error (and on parrot, ofc)
lizmat I guess we don't have tests for the REPL 20:00
spider-mario running scripts non-interactively does appear to work
only the repl is broke
n
lizmat $ echo 'my $a = 42; say $a' | perl6-p
seek failed: -1
spider-mario yeah, exactly that
lizmat $ echo 'my $a = 42; say $a' | perl6-m 20:01
42
moar seems fine
spider-mario I was wondering if I built it wrong or something. :p
lizmat I think it's time for a rakudobug
spider-mario: could you send an email to [email@hidden.address] with a description of the problem? 20:02
(like copying the above IRC dialog) 20:03
bartolin even this fails: $ echo | ./perl6-p 20:07
seek failed: -1
spider-mario RT #122879 20:18
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=122879
lizmat spider-mario++ 20:19
p: my $a = nqp::getstdin(); say $a
camelia rakudo-parrot e4adb2: OUTPUT«(signal )»
lizmat m: my $a = nqp::getstdin(); say $a
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'gist': no method cache and no .^find_method␤ in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:15500␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/earoTv2R3O:1␤␤»
lizmat feels to me that nqp::getstdin() on parrot is borked 20:20
lizmat [Coke]: result of my jvm spectest: Files=916, Tests=33566, 2367 wallclock secs ( 5.63 usr 2.29 sys + 22.64 cusr 4.69 csys = 35.25 CPU) 20:39
which appears to be *faster* than before, but that could well be noise 20:40
so I would conclude that roast slowness you experience is due to different underlying java version
timotimo YES 20:41
three screens :D
lizmat mine is: java version "1.7.0_45"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.7.0_45-b18)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 24.45-b08, mixed mode)
dalek ecs: e83a759 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Remove SEQ() fossil

This appears to be an implementation specific rakudo thing nowadays		 20:43
timotimo i should work at this place more often :3 20:44
lizmat wonders what this place is... 20:45
timotimo my local hackspace :)
lizmat aha! 20:46
lizmat S02:2690 : ($a, $, $c) = 1..3; will result in the message, "Anonymous variable requires declarator". 20:52
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_2690
lizmat it was my impression that we want that to be silent (as it actually is at the moment) 20:53
lizmat m: my $a; my $c; ($a, $, $c) = (1,3,42); say $a; say $c 20:53
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«1␤42␤»
dalek ecs: aadf058 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Make anonymous variables silent in all contexts

If you're actually specifying something like ($a, $, $b) in your code, you expect the 2nd value to drop on the floor. So why warn about that at all? Assuming that's what "will result in the message:" means.		 21:03
timotimo damn, soon i'll want two 1920x1080 screens at home, too :(
dalek ast: b93b787 | usev6++ | S02-types/type.t:
Add test for RT #93982
 21:06
synopsebot Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...l?id=93982
lizmat is waiting for the 4K iMac :-)
carlin timotimo: I left a comment on your gist from earlier 21:11
timotimo are you interested in finishing it? :D 21:12
i don't know about this getopt::long thingie 21:13
lizmat S02:2886: feels like a fossil: "To bind global variables into a lexical scope, predeclare them with C<use>: use PROCESS <$IN $OUT>;" 21:15
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#line_2886
lizmat feels strange that you would 'use' for that, unless we should interprete any pseudo-package name in a 'use' statement ? 21:16
[Coke] lizmat++ thanks 21:18
carlin timotimo: gist.github.com/carbin/b342ece3b357a63066f2 21:25
timotimo feel free to pullrequest moarvm/moarvm? 21:26
carlin done 21:34
timotimo thank you :) 21:36
timotimo travis-ci.org/MoarVM/MoarVM/jobs/36815437#L120 - can we make this prettier? 21:38
maybe put it all the way to the bottom directly above "Configuration SUCCESS."?
carlin sure can 21:48
timotimo cool :) 21:49
carlin travis-ci.org/MoarVM/MoarVM/jobs/36816568#L151 21:51
timotimo looks like i'll merge this :)
huh, clang is apparently much slower at this ?! 21:52
Mouq lizmat: I wouldn't consider SEQ() a fossil; it was TimToady's replacement for the old semantics of `( foo() ; bar() )` since it now produces an LoL 21:53
dalek ecs: f11c62c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Add inner link for Adverbial Pair forms
lizmat well, it was the *only* mention in the spec
timotimo wow, so many warnings from clang 21:54
lizmat so if it is not a fossil, then it needs elaboration :-)
timotimo const char * and unsigned char * ...
Mouq lizmat: Very true :)
lizmat timotimo: yes, from day 1
carlin it takes a long time to print all those warnings
Mouq lizmat: I don't know if TimToady was still looking for a better solution or if that's what has been decided on
lizmat doesn't either
I hope TimToady will take the nudge :-) 21:55
Mouq c'ya round #perl6
lizmat timotimo: shall I bump revisions ? and adapt the README ? 21:56
carlin someone who knows how the travis thingys work should add a --no-jit build
timotimo FROGGS would know, as he made that stuff
lizmat: i think that'd be a good idea 21:57
lizmat timotimo: will do
dalek p: f4a568d | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | tools/build/MOAR_REVISION:
Bump MOAR_REVISION for default JIT build
 22:01
psch t/spec/S05-transliteration/trans.rakudo.moar (Wstat: 0 Tests: 60 Failed: 0) TODO passed: 28, 32, 36-37 22:02
:squash wasn't that hard \o/
nor was :delete
i don't get enough of the inner class LSM for :complement, i think 22:03
and with that g'night, #perl6 \o 22:04
lizmat good night, psch
timotimo gnite psch! 22:06
thank you for your work! :)
dalek kudo/nom: 89abcf2 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (2 files):
Jit is now default for moar builds
 22:10
timotimo i believe rakudo's and nqp's configure.pl may need adjusting for the jit yes/no as well? 22:13
carlin wouldn't --moar-option=--no-jit suffice? 22:17
timotimo oh 22:19
of course
good catch
lizmat m: say :2(101) 22:31
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding $str; expected 'Str' but got 'Int'␤ in sub unbase at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7397␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Ttoxb7_boi:1␤␤»
lizmat m: say :2("101")
camelia rakudo-moar e4adb2: OUTPUT«5␤»
lizmat seems artificial to me to disallow the former 22:32
[Coke] twitter.com/mikko/status/517358472715710465 - awesome. 22:37
geekosaur aka news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8397664 22:43
tony-o lol 22:44
geekosaur the really sad thing is, having seen 3rd party windows app code, I can well believe it
tony-o "Super Windows X Turbo: World Warriors Edition"
carlin I'm looking forward to the "all the way to 11" jokes when Windows 11 gets released 22:46
or maybe Mac OS will get to XI first
geekosaur solaris beat 'em both :p
tony-o ubuntu is a number machine too 22:49
except not nearly as old as solaris
geekosaur also suse 22:50
tony-o wonder what mandrake is up to
guess it's called mandriva now 22:52
gtodd I think timotimo said it ... "almost everything is version 10, given the right base" 22:57
dalek kudo/nom: 298e811 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Make the :8(10101) a bit more like the spec
 23:02
kudo/nom: d60a8fa | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | src/ (2 files):
Hide unbase/unbase_bracket by uppercasing them

Since these are leaked to the PROCESS:: namespace, and not documented in the spec, we should probably hide them by obscurity for now.
lizmat and with that I'm calling it a day 23:04
good night, #perl6!
[Coke] ~~ 23:10
timotimo FROGGS: do you know when you'll have time to make MATCH faster than it used to be? 23:29
can you tell how much slower it still is than it used to be? 23:30
gtodd S99 23:37
oops
S99:compilation_unit 23:38
synopsebot Link: perlcabal.org/syn/S99.html#compilation_unit
gtodd does comipilation unit need examples? e.g. do users need to know if supercoolscript.p6 has use Inline::Perl5; use Stats; whether files from those modules part of the "compilation unit"? 23:43
I'ld like to see entries for different filetypes too :-) .pir .moarvm .nqp .pm6 .pm etc .pbc .pmc 23:48
japhb gtodd: In general, there are a fair number of guarantees in the spec (and implementation) about compilation units and exactly how separate they are, so I'd say "yes"
timotimo 32nd blog post posted 23:49
gtodd timotimo: just binge read the whole thing 23:52
:-)
japhb: just wondering ... my advantage is I can read the S99 and ask myself if I feel more knowledgeable/directed ... because unlike many devs I have "Shoshin" :-) 23:57
gtodd: so S99 is likely to have an effect on me 23:58

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