»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend! Set by sorear on 25 June 2013. |
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jepeway | well, i'm kinda torn between relying on the underlying OS's olson db & embedding one for p6. | 00:05 | |
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BenGoldberg | How out of date (no pun intended) is the OS's database likely to be? | 00:09 | |
BenGoldberg is trying to remember if his laptop, running XP, presently does daylight savings time on the correct date. | 00:10 | ||
jepeway | well, i'm thinking that vendor updates are kinda automated, so the likelihood is high-ish. i can be persuaded otherwise, mind you. | 00:14 | |
BenGoldberg | jepeway, You could do both -- have a backend which uses the OS's db, a backend with an embeded DB, and a frontend which uses one or the other based on some user setting. | ||
jepeway | XP support was over as of April this year, so yer likely OK. | 00:15 | |
raydiak | XP did get an update to DST changes in like 07 or something | ||
www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/de...x?id=23731 | |||
jepeway | yeah, a mix-n-match that DWIM'ed. | ||
japhb is very happy now -- he has managed to make a simple stress test that causes Rakudo absolute conniptions. | 00:16 | ||
jepeway | japhb: say on. | ||
japhb | m: my \SCALE = 3; my \FANOUT = 2; sub divide-and-conquer($n, $depth) { say "$depth: $n" if 0; $depth <= 0 ?? $n !! [+] await do for ^FANOUT { start { divide-and-conquer($n / FANOUT, $depth - 1) } } }; say divide-and-conquer(1.0, SCALE); | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 315ec6: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 8480 bytesMemory allocation failed; could not allocate 8480 bytes» | ||
japhb | That sucker will give all sorts of results, including 1 (the correct answer), 1.25 (WHAT?), the above error, 'Cannot invoke this object (REPR: Null)', locking up solid .... | 00:17 | |
Really quite fun, actually. | |||
And hopefully short enough to actually help jnthn++ et al. to debug it finally. | 00:18 | ||
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raydiak is still learning how to write his programs in way that *isn't* a stress test that causes rakudo absolute conniptions :) | 00:19 | ||
japhb | In fact, with SCALE = 5, it's pretty much guaranteed to lock up solid on my box. SCALE = 1 or SCALE = 2 usually works. | ||
raydiak: I've been trying for a month or more to golf down my threading instabilities to something that can be easily tested and shows the problems. | |||
BenGoldberg | m: my \SCALE = 3; my \FANOUT = 2; sub divide-and-conquer($n, $depth) { say "$depth: $n" if 0; $depth <= 0 ?? $n !! [+] await do for ^FANOUT { start { divide-and-conquer($n / FANOUT, $depth - 1) } } }; say divide-and-conquer(1.0, SCALE); | 00:20 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 315ec6: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 8480 bytesCould not spawn thread: errorcode -1» | ||
BenGoldberg | m: my \SCALE = 3; my \FANOUT = 2; multi sub divide-and-conquer($n, 0) { say "done $n"; $n }; sub divide-and-conquer($n, $depth) { say "$depth: $n"; [+] await do for ^FANOUT { start { divide-and-conquer($n / FANOUT, $depth - 1) } } }; say divide-and-conquer(1.0, SCALE); | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 315ec6: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/8xP1T2cBoXRedeclaration of routine divide-and-conquerat /tmp/8xP1T2cBoX:1------> d-conquer($n / FANOUT, $depth - 1) } } }⏏; say divide-and-conquer(1.0, SCALE); ex…» | ||
japhb | Oooh, two errors for the price of one! | ||
raydiak | japhb: that makes me feel better that I haven't had much luck doing the same yet, though admittedly with far less than a month of total effort | ||
BenGoldberg | m: my \SCALE = 3; my \FANOUT = 2; multi divide-and-conquer($n, 0) { say "done $n"; $n }; multi divide-and-conquer($n, $depth) { say "$depth: $n"; [+] await do for ^FANOUT { start { divide-and-conquer($n / FANOUT, $depth - 1) } } }; say divide-and-conquer(1.0, SCALE); | 00:21 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 315ec6: OUTPUT«3: 12: 0.52: 0.51: 0.251: 0.251: 0.251: 0.25done 0.125Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 8480 bytes» | ||
japhb | Well, it's not like it's been my day job ... but definitely a free time hacking problem | ||
.tell jnthn Finally a short stress test for Rakudo threading that fails many different ways, relatively quickly: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-10-29#i_9579979 | 00:22 | ||
yoleaux | japhb: I'll pass your message to jnthn. | ||
jepeway | well, gotta go. g'nite airbody. | ||
raydiak | good night jepeway | 00:23 | |
japhb | o/ jepeway | ||
masak | good night jepeway | ||
good night #perl6 | |||
japhb | o/ masak | ||
Sleep well ... | |||
raydiak | g'night masak \o | 00:24 | |
BenGoldberg | I got that code to say 'Cannot assign to a readonly variable or a value' | ||
japhb | BenGoldberg: Yeah, I keep getting different stuff the more I try it. I can only assume heap corruption or somesuch. | 00:29 | |
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japhb | Although the lockup at SCALE >= 5 my guess is a problem with the way the scheduler manages the threadpool. | 00:34 | |
BenGoldberg | Can moar be run using valgrind? That would give a hint as to the location of the problem. | 00:41 | |
dalek | rl6-bench/stress: 1a31fa5 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files): Add the first Perl 6 stress test: divide-and-conquer |
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japhb | BenGoldberg: I believe nwc10++ has done that. | 00:46 | |
BenGoldberg | m: my \SCALE = 10; my \FANOUT = 10; multi sub divide-and-conquer($n, 0) { $n }; multi divide-and-conquer($n, $depth) { [+] await do for ^FANOUT { start { divide-and-conquer($n / FANOUT, $depth - 1) } } }; say divide-and-conquer(1.0, SCALE); | 00:52 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 315ec6: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 8480 bytes» | ||
japhb | OK, that's some serious stress right there. | 00:57 | |
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japhb | divide-and-conquer ++++++++++,++++++++++,++++++++++,+++ØØ++≠+≠ | 01:05 | |
^^ Diagnosis from perl6-bench stress of divide-and-conquer at increasing SCALE | 01:06 | ||
You can see where it starts to fall apart | |||
dalek | rl6-bench/stress: a33943f | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | timeall: Don't skip remaining runs of a test at a particular SCALE when a compiler starts to fail |
01:16 | |
rl6-bench/stress: 9c8ef17 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench: Default to 10 runs per compiler per test when doing stress testing |
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rl6-bench/stress: 7ded32e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | / (2 files): Add a --verbose option to analyze, and support it in bench |
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MilkmanDan | Is there no site that gives a current status of Perl6 work that a non-guru could follow? | 01:46 | |
Most of the hits under duckduckgo.com/?q=current+state+of+Perl6 are ca. 2010 and even perl6.org/compilers/features is close to two months old. | |||
So I'm clearly looking in the wrong places. | 01:47 | ||
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peteretep | MilkmanDan: Have you seen the table of supported features? | 01:47 | |
MilkmanDan | peteretep: On the second link I pasted? | ||
peteretep | ah, yeah, that's the one | 01:48 | |
Sorry I didn't look closely enough | |||
MilkmanDan | No worries :) | ||
peteretep | That and the blog posts are the best I've seen | ||
Although those are about Rakudo, but I tend to feel that's a reasonable proxy | |||
(rakudo.org/) | |||
MilkmanDan | That's probably more useful for the deep hackers. I'm more interested in something like stackoverflow.com/questions/1899639...erl-6?rq=1 | ||
"closed as not constructive" is a but of a put-off though. :) | 01:49 | ||
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peteretep | MilkmanDan: Over the years, I've tried to get a feel for it, and not found a good place | 01:50 | |
MilkmanDan: I feel like the best answer is "There's a usable alpha out" | |||
MilkmanDan | peteretep: That's the impression I get but I have a hard time getting much farther than that. For example, "what exactly do I download to start learning, and why those bits instead of other bits?" | 01:51 | |
peteretep | I think the one-off answer to that is: Rakudo | 01:52 | |
MilkmanDan | I can see that there a gaggle of different, um, compilers and interpreters? | ||
peteretep | rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ | ||
MilkmanDan | Rakudo is a frontend to some backend like a JVM that actually executes the code, yes? | ||
peteretep | I think it's more generally a release, that includes a workable back-end | 01:53 | |
peteretep is making a not of these questions to write up a document | |||
colomon | MilkmanDan: I don't know that anything that would require a change to perl6.org/compilers/features has happened in the last two months. | ||
peteretep | I also don't know the answers definitive though | ||
MilkmanDan | colomon: Thanks, good to know. | ||
colomon | Rakudo is implemented in terms of NQP, and NQP currently runs on Parrot, JVM, and MoarVM. | 01:54 | |
Unless you specifically want to use lots of threading stuff, the best choice is probably MoarVM. | |||
peteretep | colomon: I think that is a very accurate answer, but not necessarily a helpful one for people outside the know | ||
MilkmanDan | Yeah, this is the sort of stuff that I think needs a site to track the State of the 6 Onion. | 01:55 | |
On6on? | |||
peteretep | heh | 01:56 | |
MilkmanDan | Whichever. A site that took a snapshot of the state every quarter or two would make it a lot easier for relative noobs to get up to speed and start learning things. | ||
peteretep | MilkmanDan: I have an ulterior motive for wanting to create such a thing, and am currently procrastinating about something else | 01:57 | |
peteretep throws something together | |||
MilkmanDan | Or maybe I'm being overly optimistic about when things will be finalized enough for noobs to begin using it. | ||
That book on Github looks like it's mostly about 2-4 years old. | 01:58 | ||
peteretep | MilkmanDan: I think there's a real focus on producing working code at the moment, rather than documenting progress | ||
Actually, I think that's been the case forever | 01:59 | ||
MilkmanDan | nod | ||
peteretep | Regardless, I would agree with what you've said | ||
MilkmanDan | Oh dear. irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6book/ is a bit depressing. | 02:00 | |
I think I better just lurk for another 6 months. | |||
peteretep | Which is a shame, as I think there's enough that you could fruitfully learn Perl 6 right now | ||
Although it requires investment and archeology, which is a shame | 02:01 | ||
leont learned perl 6 mostly by doing, and by not being afraid to ask "stupid" questions here | |||
colomon | leont has the best way of it, indeed. | ||
peteretep | Amazing that now I have a commercial incentive in publicizing a Perl-related site, I am more willing to put together Perl content :-/ | 02:02 | |
MilkmanDan | leont: How did you get past the "which bits? etc" part? | ||
I'm still not entirely sure why I need to install a Java virtual machine to learn Perl (or that I should be forced to live in such a state of sin. :) | 02:03 | ||
colomon | MilkmanDan: you only need JVM if you want to use it. | 02:04 | |
MilkmanDan | colomon: Use MoarVM instead? | ||
leont | Yeah | 02:05 | |
colomon | I'd strongly recommend that. | ||
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MilkmanDan | I very much like the of MOAR THINGS! But that's about as far as my decision process would go. | 02:05 | |
dalek | rl6-bench/stress: 80d904e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | bench: Refactor quickstart command and add quickstress command |
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MilkmanDan | So is Moar a weakly typed VM where the JVM is strongly typed? | 02:07 | |
peteretep | Would this be a fair statement: "Rakudo Star implements enough of Perl 6 that it feels feature parity with Perl 5"? | ||
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colomon | The key to Moar is that it was explicitly developed to support the current Rakudo. | 02:07 | |
MilkmanDan | peteretep: That sounds great to me. | 02:08 | |
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peteretep | MilkmanDan: That may not be true :-) | 02:08 | |
MilkmanDan: I am asking to assertain its truthiness | |||
colomon | Eh, there certainly are some features of Perl 5 which Rakudo doesn't really handle yet | ||
peteretep | But I think it is true | ||
colomon | it's mostly there. | ||
peteretep | Unicode, complicated IO/threading | ||
colomon | and there are things there which are not in perl 5 | ||
peteretep | I feel like those are the two biggies | ||
MilkmanDan | I can probably get by quite well without Unicode. :) | 02:09 | |
colomon | as far as I know we don't have a decent pack / unpack facility yet | ||
japhb | Why would you think we are unicode impaired? | ||
peteretep | japhb: It says it on the Rakudo star website | ||
well, rakudo website | 02:10 | ||
japhb | peteretep: link? | ||
BenGoldberg | The biggest thing that perl5 has that perl6 is barely starting on, is CPAN. For any task that can possibly be done, there's a perl5 CPAN module out there which does it well. | ||
peteretep | japhb: rakudo.org/ | ||
BenGoldberg: I'm doing my dissertation on that, strangely enough | |||
colomon | Certainly basic Unicode stuff works fine in Rakudo. | 02:11 | |
MilkmanDan | "This Star release includes release 2014.09 of the" | ||
Rakudo Perl 6 compiler, version 6.7.0 of the Parrot Virtual | |||
Machine, version 2014.09 of MoarVM, plus various modules, | |||
documentation, and other resources collected from the Perl 6 | |||
community." | |||
Crap, that was supposed to be one line. | |||
japhb | peteretep: Ah, I see what you're looking at. That's roughly saying "We're only doing *somewhat* better than Perl 5 at Unicode, instead of OMG A LOT" | ||
MilkmanDan | Anyway, why does Star include two different VMs? Are they both used? | ||
peteretep | japhb: Hrmmmm | 02:12 | |
japhb: Now I come to think of it, actually Perl 6 promised a lot | |||
japhb: Are the Unicode features that currently exist then very similar to what's in Perl 5? | |||
japhb | MilkmanDan: Star is a distro release (batteries included, basically), so it includes what you need to play around however you like. We just can't include the JVM for obvious reasons | ||
MilkmanDan | japhb: Ah, right. Java stinks. | 02:13 | |
MilkmanDan nods solemnly. | |||
japhb | peteretep: In general, we pervasively do Unicode in strings. And know when we're using strings and when we're using Blobs. | ||
BenGoldberg | It's not that java stinks, it's that java is huge. | ||
MilkmanDan | So both Parrot and Moar included for fun for the user. | ||
BenGoldberg | Well, JRE is relatively huge, anyway. | ||
japhb | BenGoldberg: And possibly encumbered in a not-Artistic-2.0 compatible way, I haven't looked recently. | ||
MilkmanDan | BenGoldberg: No, no, I've taken Java classes before. It definitely stinks. :) | ||
japhb | MilkmanDan: Yes, fun for the user. | 02:14 | |
BenGoldberg | MilkmanDan, JVMs take java *classes*, java students take java *courses*. So unless you're a computer... | 02:15 | |
:) | |||
colomon can't really comment on Rakudo Star, as he pretty much always uses rakudobrew to build rakudo these days. | |||
MilkmanDan | Haha | ||
japhb | m: say uniname('F') | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 315ec6: OUTPUT«LATIN CAPITAL LETTER F» | ||
MilkmanDan | I'm not so much a computer as I am an entity created for a webcomic.... | 02:16 | |
BenGoldberg | Also, MilkmanDan, are you saying that that java programming language stinks, or that the java virtual machine stinks? | ||
Because the java backend of Rakudo produces class files directly from NQP, *without* using the java programming language. | 02:17 | ||
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MilkmanDan | BenGoldberg: Seriously? Well, when I studied Java I had previously done a bit of dabbling in various languages including Perl. Java just felt all _wrong_ to me. | 02:17 | |
BenGoldberg | So it's the language, not the vm. | ||
MilkmanDan | Yeah. | ||
peteretep | github.com/sheriff/perl6status/blo.../README.md | 02:18 | |
I plan to "finish" this document in the next 90 minutes | |||
By making it about 5 times the size | |||
BenGoldberg | You *do* realize that there's like, a dozen different languages which compile to .class files, which can run on the jvm. | ||
peteretep | I would very appreciate some extra eyes | ||
BenGoldberg | And many of them are completely and utterly unlike the java programming language. | ||
MilkmanDan | Although from reading (I think?) Perlmonks it seems that getting Perl to run in the JVM is a bit of a flawed hack because Java is completely typed and Perl has always been "that's cool, whatevs you want, bro". | ||
peteretep | MilkmanDan: My understanding is much as the VM has gotten a lot better, actually the language has improved a lot too | ||
BenGoldberg | I mean, consider lisp, and ironpython, as just two examples. | 02:19 | |
MilkmanDan | Lisp I can understand, but Python running in the JVM sounds just as odd to me as Perl. | ||
BenGoldberg shrugs. | 02:20 | ||
And yet, it runs! | |||
MilkmanDan | But I'm no low level hacker. | ||
Yeah | |||
Nevertheless, it moves! | |||
japhb | MilkmanDan: Perl 6 has a much more interesting type system than Perl 5 does. | ||
MilkmanDan | japhb: Oh dear. Is that analogous to "may you live in interesting times"? | ||
japhb | Well we hope not. :-) | 02:21 | |
Actually, it allows for a lot more intelligence in a lot of places, which makes using the language much freer of annoyances. | |||
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MilkmanDan | I like the idea of asking Perl to tell you the [scalar] length of a hash and getting the number of elements in it because Perl and the programmer have an understanding that doing a scalar operation on a hash only makes sense in such a way. | 02:22 | |
peteretep | MilkmanDan: heh. Context has always felt like the weakest part of Perl to me | 02:23 | |
MilkmanDan | peteretep: Really? I always thought it was brilliant. | ||
I liked it because it was like Perl telling me "this is brilliant but you can use it if you step up your game and try to be a little bit brilliant yourself." | 02:24 | ||
Humbling but inspiring at the same time. | |||
peteretep | Everyone: is there a particularly good or well-written Perl 6 module that should be highlighted as an example of how to write Perl 6? | 02:25 | |
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colomon | nothing is jumping to mind. There are beautiful short modules that jnthn has written. | 02:32 | |
I've got my ABC, which is reasonably big and uses a lot of nice bits of Perl 6, but I wrote the bulk of it ages ago and would certainly not write it that way if I started over today. | |||
panda, maybe, but it's pretty specialized. | 02:33 | ||
peteretep | github.com/sheriff/perl6status/blo.../README.md | 02:35 | |
MilkmanDan: ^^ does that answer most of the questions you came here with? | |||
colomon: Is everything on that page I just posted true, as far as you know? | |||
MilkmanDan | peteretep: I'll look in a bit. Thanks. | 02:37 | |
colomon | peteretep: I'd wait around to get other opinions on truthiness. | 02:38 | |
I don't know of any Unicode features missing from Rakudo-Moar, for instance. (But that doesn't mean they don't excist.) | 02:39 | ||
*exist | |||
As far as I know, forms and pack/unpack are both still missing from rakudo. | 02:40 | ||
peteretep | forms? | ||
colomon | (Both of which are p5 features I've certainly relied on in the past.) | ||
sorry, formats | |||
peteretep | Like %02d? | 02:41 | |
colomon | no, we've got sprintf etc. | ||
like @<<<<<<<<< @>>>>> @>>>>> | |||
peteretep | ah | ||
colomon | I vaguely remember something about a module to do that, but I don't know anything more than that about it. | 02:42 | |
at the moment, the big not done part is the currently underway Great List Refactoring. | |||
as pmichaud++, etc try to get List handling more consistent and more efficient. | 02:43 | ||
but rakudo is perfectly suitable for doing a good bit of p6 development. I use it pretty much every day for $work. | 02:49 | ||
peteretep | What do you do for work? | 02:51 | |
colomon | CAD software library development | 02:55 | |
all the CAD code is in C++ | |||
but I've got a ton of support code in p5 and a growing amount in p6 | 02:56 | ||
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hagiri | TimToady, hello man | 03:39 | |
=) | |||
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peteretep | perl6.guide/ | 04:00 | |
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peteretep | Is there any published or implicit roadmap for Rakudo? | 04:29 | |
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lucs | peteretep: Is that a domain of yours? | 04:32 | |
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peteretep | lucs: Yes | 04:35 | |
lucs | Aha. | ||
(first time I see a .guide domain) | 04:36 | ||
D'oh! I should have read to the end of the page :) | 04:37 | ||
peteretep | I would like to improve that page to include a roadmap that is derived from various blog posts | 04:40 | |
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peteretep | "I also announced that discussions would happen about what ought to be in Perl 6.0.0" | 04:47 | |
What does that actually /mean/? | |||
Does that mean a Rakudo version that says it can support Perl 6.0.0? | |||
Is that a tag on a certain set of the unit tests for Perl 6? | 04:48 | ||
Presumably it needs to be the latter | |||
Perl 6.0.0 is a set of tests that are canonicalized as "Perl 6.0.0" | |||
And it being "released" is ... there's software somewhere that can compile it? | 04:49 | ||
I note that the bullet points after that (p6weekly.wordpress.com/) talk about the Great List Refactor | |||
Is GLR specifically a Rakudo-specific thing? | |||
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peteretep | Or is there more work implied there in figuring out what the language itself should do? | 04:51 | |
Reading on there, it seems to be /both/ | |||
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JimmyZ | peteretep: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/docs/ROADMAP | 06:09 | |
peteretep | JimmyZ: That's something. Shame it's so out of date :( | 06:10 | |
(based on viewing it as: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blame/nom...s/ROADMAP) | |||
JimmyZ | peteretep: Last updated: 2014-09-14 | 06:11 | |
peteretep | JimmyZ: Don't believe everything people tell you - believe what the evidence shows you :-) | ||
JimmyZ | well. it's not out of date actually | 06:12 | |
peteretep | JimmyZ: Do you think it's accurate? | 06:14 | |
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JimmyZ | peteretep: almost | 06:15 | |
peteretep | JimmyZ: My understanding is that the most pressing issues are Unicode improvements, shaped arrays, and a general rewrite/refactor of list handling code | 06:16 | |
JimmyZ | Unicode improvements, shaped arrays is feature roadmap, and it's in the ROADMAP tooo | 06:17 | |
GLR is not feature roadmap | |||
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peteretep | JimmyZ: So this is a roadmap of language features only? | 06:19 | |
JimmyZ | yeah | ||
peteretep | It seems to me a brave explorer could go in and change the numbers next to the tasks to reflect that | ||
JimmyZ | or something longstanding performance roadmap | 06:20 | |
peteretep | Wouldn't that include GLR? | 06:21 | |
"Longstanding performance"? | |||
JimmyZ | GLR is not longstanding | ||
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vivek_ | hi | 06:37 | |
hi camelia | 06:38 | ||
Is there anyone online now? | |||
lucs | Sure, but a lot are missing, sleeping I guess. | 06:39 | |
JimmyZ | peteretep: rakudo start does have non-blocking IO, methinks | ||
vivek_ | I would like to contribute to this perl 6 | ||
JimmyZ | and does have a pack/unpack | 06:40 | |
vivek_ | I have been working in Perl for more than 5 years | ||
I would like to know how could I start contributing? | |||
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JimmyZ | vivek_: What would you like to do :P | 06:40 | |
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peteretep | JimmyZ: My understanding is that the non-blocking IO is limited to certain back ends | 06:41 | |
vivek_ | I think I am good at handling data structures in Perl | ||
JimmyZ | peteretep: yeah, but it does have :P | ||
peteretep | JimmyZ: Someone told me earlier pack/unpack were missing; can you point me to a passing test that shows otherwise? If so I'll update it | ||
JimmyZ | peteretep: it is not missing, just not as good as the perl 5 one | 06:42 | |
peteretep | JimmyZ: It's generally better to under-promise and over-deliver, rather than the other way around, in this world | ||
JimmyZ | peteretep: consider java only has one backend :P | 06:43 | |
and nodejs too | |||
you can't say java has no non-blocking io because it limited to only JVM | 06:44 | ||
peteretep | JimmyZ: I understand your point completely. I disagree with the assertion that that means we should disagree with the person who last released Rakudo Star and say "actually it has it just fine" | 06:45 | |
JimmyZ | peteretep: maybe the better way is that: it has, but only on XXX backends. | 06:46 | |
peteretep | This is doubly true for a language with a(n unfair) reputation problem for being vapour-ware | ||
JimmyZ: Perhaps, but the commenter who started off this whole discussion this morning was complaining that the various backends, and the different sets of functionality between them, was confusing | 06:47 | ||
And I have sympathy for that position | |||
JimmyZ | but say no make people leaves :P | ||
peteretep | I didn't understand that sentence | 06:48 | |
JimmyZ | complaining is better than no-complaining ;) | ||
lucs | vivek_: Did you see this page?: rakudo.org/how-to-help/ | ||
peteretep | JimmyZ: Ultimately, I think the message that "Perl 6 is usable right now, with these caveats" than anything more nuanced | 06:49 | |
JimmyZ | things without complaining means noboyd use it:P | ||
*nobody | |||
chenryn | Rakudo-MoarVM don't support non-blocking io? | ||
JimmyZ | it does support :P | 06:50 | |
and does have pack/unpack too | |||
peteretep | I suggest you ask Tobias Leich to update his last release note | 06:51 | |
lucs | vivek_: This too: perl6.org/about/ | ||
chenryn | so, could we say only performance improve needed? | 06:53 | |
JimmyZ | so to make rakudo having non-blocking IO, we just needs delete other two backends :P | 06:54 | |
and then no caveats | 06:55 | ||
peteretep | JimmyZ: Yes. While they're distributed as part of the official distribution, it turns out the person packaging the releases considers it to be "not quite there" | ||
JimmyZ | but it 's still there | 06:56 | |
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grondilu | I think rosettacode.org/wiki/Draw_a_sphere#Perl_6 is broken. Can anyone confirm? | 07:56 | |
FROGGS tries | 07:57 | ||
it infiniloops as it seems | 07:58 | ||
grondilu | it does not on my machine, but the resulting image does not look like a sphere at all. | 07:59 | |
FROGGS | the result on my box is just: | ||
P5 | |||
255 255 | |||
255 | |||
grondilu | you sure it's not still running? | 08:00 | |
because it's supposed to do everything in memory, and then finish write the file. | |||
Tekk_ | it fails to compile for me | 08:01 | |
on moar just built today | |||
FROGGS | but... is it meant to run longer than a minute? | ||
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FROGGS | Tekk_: O.o | 08:01 | |
how so? | |||
grondilu | it's quite slow indeed | ||
several minutes on my machine. | |||
FROGGS | ohh, oaky | ||
okay* | |||
Tekk_ | expected a term but found infix .. instead at out.print( draw_sphere( ($x-1)/2, .9, ..⏏chrs ); | ||
lizmat | good *, #perl6! | 08:02 | |
yoleaux | 28 Oct 2014 22:02Z <FROGGS> lizmat: are you happy with IO::Handle.close-pipe? | ||
lizmat | FROGGS: will look later | ||
peteretep | FROGGS: I'd love any input you have on perl6.guide/ | ||
Tekk_ | wait.. | ||
FROGGS | Tekk_: copy&pasto... there is: ».chrs | ||
moritz | Tekk_: what is ..chars supposed to me? | ||
Tekk_ | yeah | ||
FROGGS | lizmat: thanks :o) | ||
Tekk_ | FROGGS: yeah, apparently that didn't copy right for some reason | ||
moritz | \o lizmat, FROGGS, Tekk_, * | ||
FROGGS | morning moritz | 08:03 | |
Tekk_ | yep, there we go | ||
hi moritz | |||
FROGGS | peteretep: will read | ||
peteretep | FROGGS: it's very very short :) | ||
lizmat | meanwhile, I would like to note that since I pullled late last night, I'm seeing a lot more flappy test files, that run fine by themselves | ||
moritz | Tekk_: you canuse >>.chrs if non-ASCII causes problems | ||
lizmat | but have nothing apparent to do with async | ||
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FROGGS | peteretep: we have pack/unpack | 08:04 | |
peteretep | FROGGS: You are the 3rd person to say that. I will correct it now. | ||
FROGGS | :P | ||
lizmat: it is unlikely to be my fault though | 08:05 | ||
because these code paths are unused in tests | |||
moritz | did the nqp revision bump change anything? | ||
FROGGS | moritz: hmmm, not sure about taht | 08:06 | |
peteretep: rakudo (-m|-j) has threads and concurrency | |||
lizmat runs a third spectest run | |||
peteretep | FROGGS: I've changed the wording slightly there. The last release notes say it's "not quite done" and I think it's best not to over-rpromise | ||
FROGGS | okay, I can live with that :o) | 08:07 | |
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peteretep | I am hoping it gets some traction on hacker news | 08:07 | |
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FROGGS | peteretep++ # 've got nothing more to complaint about :o) | 08:12 | |
I like it | |||
grondilu: aye, the sphere does not look like a sphere :o) | 08:14 | ||
it looks like that the lines are eithr too short or too long | |||
either* | |||
grondilu | it seems to work if I change the code to create a P2 (ASCII) image instead of P5 | ||
so I suspect there's somthing wrong with binary IO | |||
maybe .chrs | 08:15 | ||
btw chrs here is not necessary, chr should do. | |||
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FROGGS tries | 08:17 | ||
I'll profile it this time... | |||
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lizmat | gist.github.com/lizmat/d5efe6e42efc59c94b17 # 3 runs of flappy tests, each of which runs fine by its own | 08:19 | |
*on | |||
away to computer parts store& | 08:20 | ||
moritz | lizmat: I'm now spectesting 9022b0f to see if it's flappy too | ||
first run was fine (no fails) | |||
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FROGGS | hmmm, if I had to guess I'd say it is a newly jitted op | 08:23 | |
moritz | my plan is: | ||
1) run three spectests on rakudo 9022b0f | |||
2) if they are fine, update moar to master without updating NQP or Rakudo | |||
3) if the spectests are still fine, update NQP | 08:25 | ||
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moritz | This is perl6 version 2014.10-21-gb9deb95 built on MoarVM version 2014.10 => three spectests in a row are fine | 08:30 | |
now trying with moar master | |||
uhm | 08:31 | ||
on moar master I get | |||
Unimplemented spesh ops hit at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:4755 (././CORE.setting.moarvm:Int:3) | |||
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moritz | do I have to rebuild rakudo and/or nqp when I switch to a newer MoarVM version? | 08:33 | |
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rurban | yes, make clean and rm nqp-m | 08:38 | |
rm install/bin/nqp-m | 08:39 |
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