»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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ugexe m: say "';'" ~~ / \; /; 00:04
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢;｣␤␤»
ugexe ';' that isn't surrounded by ' or " 00:05
m: say 'ok1' if ' ; ' ~~ /<-['"]> ';' <-['"]>/; say 'ok2' if ' ";" ' ~~ /<-['"]> ';' <-['"]>/; say 'ok3' if " ';' " ~~ /<-['"]> ';' <-['"]>/; 00:06
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«ok1␤»
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Mouq m: say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; <~~0>/ # :P 00:10
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tkmD6VJ5DG␤Sorry, ~~ regex assertion with a capture is not yet implemented␤at /tmp/tkmD6VJ5DG:1␤------> say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; <~~0⏏>/ # :P␤»
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Mouq m: say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; <{$0}>/ 00:42
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native string␤ in sub MAKE_REGEX at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14162␤ in block at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14088␤ in method INTERPOLATE at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14078␤ in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14210␤…»
Mouq m: say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; <{~$0}>/
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling EVAL_0␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" ␤at EVAL_0:1␤------> anon regex { ^'}⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ scoped declarator␤ …»
Mouq Uh
fail
ohh 00:43
m: say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; <{"\\$0"}>/
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢';'｣␤ 0 => ｢'｣␤␤»
Mouq m: say all(q[';'], q[";"], none q[";'], q[';"]) ~~ /(<['"]>) \; <{"\\$0"}>/ 00:44
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Start of substr out of range. Is: 5, should be in 0..3␤»
Mouq m: say (q[';'], q[";"], q[";'], q[';"]) >>~~>> /(<['"]>) \; <{"\\$0"}>/ 00:45
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«True True False False␤»
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dalek ecs: 9f20af7 | raiph++ | S17-concurrency.pod:
Fix typos and whitespace
 01:04
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jdv79 is there a way to pretty print like Data::Dumper or JSON::Tiny in p5 land? 01:14
I can't read a page of text for structure
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Mouq perhaps github.com/FROGGS/p6-JSON-Pretty/ ? 01:17
jdv79 JSON can't represent all types though, right?
I thought Data::Pretty would but it seems to not
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raiph Are the X and Z metaops theoretically parallelizable? Was my comment on HN accurate? news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8581868 01:42
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Mouq raiph: I believe X and Z are allowed to be lazy, so idk. »*» 2 would be a safer bet, which I believe is explicitly parellizable, though that's NYI 01:46
raiph m: say hyper 1..5 X* 2 01:51
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'hyper'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Any \op, Any \a, Any \b, Any :dwim-left($dwim-left), Any :dwim-right($dwim-right))␤:(Any \op, Any \obj)␤:(Any \op, Associative \a, Associative \b, Any :dwim-left($dwim-left), Any :dwim-right($dwi…»
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dj_goku cognominal: looks like it is back up now. testers.perl6.org 02:03
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ugexe nqp: my @a:= nqp::list; my @b := nqp::list; nqp::splice(@a, @b, 0, 0); say(@a); 02:07
camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)»
..nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«0␤»
..nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«cannot stringify this␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:682 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/languages/nqp/lib/NQPCORE.setting.moarvm:print:13)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQPCORE.setting:688 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/languages/nqp/lib/NQPCORE.setting.moarvm:sa…»
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ugexe not sure if the difference between parrot and moar is expected 02:07
colomon raiph: Mouq is write, X & Z return lazy lists, so they're not great candidates for parallelization. 02:08
*right
colomon sighs. too much bookkeeping crap today. brain done but work isn't.
Mouq hugme: hug colomon 02:10
hugme hugs colomon
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cognominal hugme: hug all of us 02:25
hugme hugs all
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cognominal dj_goku, it is off and on 02:26
adu hugs cognominal
cognominal hugs back 02:27
dj_goku cognominal: yeah I noticed the same. 02:35
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TimToady m: say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; $0 02:52
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Regex not terminated.␤at /tmp/hBx_1lAeYU:1␤------> say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; $0⏏<EOL>␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'␤at /tmp/hBx_1lAeYU:1␤------> say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; $0…»
TimToady m: say "';'" ~~ /(\') \; $0/
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢';'｣␤ 0 => ｢'｣␤␤»
TimToady Mouq: ^^ yer makin' it too hard 02:53
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raiph TimToady: Aiui one is supposed to be able to shift gears between lazy and eager using keywords eager, lazy, etc.; and the GLR is partly about making that implementable; and so at some point hyper @a X* @b should be eager and, if the compiler so chooses, parallelizable. Am I right about the long term intent? 03:04
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TimToady yes, but X does default to lazy, which is anti eager/hyper/race 03:16
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raiph TimToady: Thanks. (To recap my current understanding: `@a Xop @b` is by default lazy but `hyper @a Xop @b` might one day parallelize.) 03:27
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perltricks m: pi.fmt("%.10f") 03:30
camelia ( no output )
perltricks m: say pi.fmt("%.10f")
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«3.1415926536␤»
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BenGoldberg m: say Promise.new.result; 03:45
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 03:46
BenGoldberg Will perl have any sort of deadlock detection?
Err, perl6 ;)
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perltricks is there a short way to UC the first word of each line in a file? This: 03:48
perl6 -ne 'say s/(\w+)/{$0.uc}/' example.txt
clobbers the first word
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Mouq perltricks: try s/(\w+){}/... 03:51
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perltricks Mouq: hah! that works, thanks. But why? 03:52
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Mouq or just `say .tc` 03:53
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Mouq perltricks: There's an issue with $/ being created in s/// and .subst calls. It's been an outstanding bug for a while 03:53
perltricks Mouq: ok, thanks 03:54
Mouq perltricks: Did .tc work? 03:55
Mouq backtracks. TimToady++ :) 03:56
perltricks Mouq: no I think it titlecased the first word?
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colomon m: lines.map({.tc}).say 03:59
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll; Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ Ghaoth …»
colomon m: "no I think it titlecased the first word?".tc.say 04:00
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«No I think it titlecased the first word?␤»
Mouq m: "no I think it titlecased the first word?".wordcase.say
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«No I Think It Titlecased The First Word?␤»
perltricks Mouq: nice! 04:02
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perltricks Almost finished! github.com/sillymoose/Perl6-One-Liners 04:14
just a few perl 6 calcs to translate
(from P5)
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Mouq perltricks++ 04:18
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Mouq perltricks: "Print lines that contain all vowels" another version: perl6 -ne'.say if .comb (>=) <a e i o u>' or perl6 -ne'.say if .comb ⊇ <a e i o u>' 04:20
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perltricks mouq: thx, much better! 04:29
Mouq: thx, much better!
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raiph m: say "a" ~~ /<vowel>/ 04:39
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«No such method 'vowel' for invocant of type 'Cursor'␤ in method ACCEPTS at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14210␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/NWcrIDxi99:1␤␤»
raiph m: say "a" ~~ /<ident>/ 04:40
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢a｣␤ ident => ｢a｣␤␤»
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raydiak Mouq++: thanks for trying out Math::Symbolic and reporting that bug 05:01
yoleaux 17 Nov 2014 20:56Z <Mouq> raydiak: github.com/raydiak/Math-Symbolic/issues/1
17 Nov 2014 20:58Z <Mouq> raydiak: (Found because of gist.github.com/Mouq/f36a4ccf9547947eec8e btw :)
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raydiak oh neat, and you're trying to use it...big changes coming :) 05:04
Mouq raydiak++ :) 05:07
raydiak been working on the poly branch, can reorganize an expression into a polynomial in terms of a certain var 05:08
then will solve it e.g. via quadratic equation, is the idea
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raydiak also plan to add a .compile() that will return a perl routine for the expression by building it as a string and EVALing it 05:11
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Mouq raydiak: Nice, will you just have it die on polynomials of powers greater than 4? 05:13
raydiak wanted to make it so Pray can render 3D equations, and so I can describe primitives mathematically and precompile the results into automatically-generated primitve classes
I don't know much about solving them in higher orders, but yes there's a lot of 'die "{...} is NYI"' going on in there :) 05:14
so more of that, I'm sure
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Mouq
.oO( "Disproof of Abel–Ruffini NYI" )
 05:16
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raydiak hah...I wanted to eventually make it smart enough to search for it's own solutions by pathfinding through a network of manipulation edges and representation nodes using some kind of progress-towards-goal metric 05:18
so maybe eventually it'll start trying to make up its own solutions if it doesn't findan obvious one :)
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raydiak there is a "Knuth up-arrow NYI" in there somewhere, but I don't think you can trigger it normally 05:19
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tony-o Mouq: i'm trying to use that in a grammar, match a ';' not encapsulated by '|" 05:22
rather, match everything before a ';' not in a ' or " 05:24
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Mouq raydiak: :) Hmm... Well I'm sure there's research on these things out in the world... 05:29
m: say "abcd;efg" ~~ / .* <?[;]> / # ?
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd｣␤␤»
Mouq m: say "abcd;efg" ~~ / .* )> \; / # ?
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd｣␤␤»
tony-o m: say 'abcd";"efg;' ~~ / .* )> \; / 05:31
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd";"efg｣␤␤»
tony-o m: say 'abcd";"efg;' ~~ / .*? )> \; /
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd"｣␤␤»
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tony-o m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / .* )> \; / 05:32
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd";"efg｣␤␤»
tony-o Mouq: you're halfway to a 6 pack i think 05:33
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TimToady m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ '.*?' | ".*?" | .]*? )> \; / 05:34
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd"｣␤␤»
TimToady hmm
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Mouq doesn't actually understand the problem :P 05:35
TimToady m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ '.*?' || ".*?" || .]*? )> \; / 05:36
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd"｣␤␤»
TimToady m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ '.*?' || ".*?" || <-['"]>]*? )> \; /
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢｣␤␤»
tony-o github.com/tony-o/perl6-slang-sql/...asic.t#L29
Mouq m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ \'.*?\' || \".*?\" || .]*? )> \; /
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd";"efg｣␤␤»
TimToady m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ '<-[']>*?' || "<-["]>*?" || <-['"]>]*? )> \; / 05:37
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/mXnzv7neBH␤Unable to parse regex; couldn't find final '/'␤at /tmp/mXnzv7neBH:1␤------> say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ '<-[']⏏>*?' || "<-["]>*?" || <-['"]>]*? )> \; /␤ ex…»
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TimToady m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ \'<-[']>*?'\ || \"<-["]>*?\" || <-['"]>]*? )> \; / 05:38
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/5eXsc2iWCL␤Unable to parse expression in double quotes; couldn't find final '"' ␤at /tmp/5eXsc2iWCL:1␤------> '\ || \"<-["]>*?\" || <-['"]>]*? )> \; /⏏<EOL>␤ expectin…»
TimToady m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ \'.*?\' || \".*?\" || .]*? )> \; /
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd";"efg｣␤␤»
TimToady there we go
m: say 'abcd";"efg;123' ~~ / [ \'.*?\' | \".*?\" | .]*? )> \; / 05:39
camelia rakudo-moar 48edaa: OUTPUT«｢abcd";"efg｣␤␤»
tony-o that's the stuff sql slang is made of (now)
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raydiak Mouq: true the whole network thing is a bit out there (and possibly pointless), definitely not an immediate plan...guess it just sounded cool to have the software potentially come up with solutions I didn't already spoon-feed it 06:18
good night #perl6 \o 06:25
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dalek kudo/nom: 5dc4b46 | TimToady++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
pluralize parentheses when you mean a pair of them
 06:43
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travis-ci Rakudo build failed. TimToady 'pluralize parentheses when you mean a pair of them' 06:49
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/41331531 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/4...c4b469db21
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dalek ast: e8f7579 | TimToady++ | S03-operators/precedence.t:
list assoc now checks for same operator in rakudo
 06:53
ast: 4bcb05a | TimToady++ | S03-operators/minmax.t:
rakudo now checks list assoc op mismatch
p: 54ee667 | TimToady++ | src/HLL/Grammar.nqp:
list assocativity requires same operator name

  (except for the invocant colon, which is a comma in disguise)
kudo/nom: f2ffb9a | TimToady++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
bump nqp
 06:54
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travis-ci NQP build failed. TimToady 'list assocativity requires same operator name 06:58
travis-ci.org/perl6/nqp/builds/41332065 github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/4c2e5...ee66700d5b
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travis-ci Rakudo build failed. TimToady 'bump nqp' 07:01
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/41332096 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/5...ffb9a384b0
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TimToady m: say 1 X 2 Z 3 07:50
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/mWbU6KB83h␤Operators 'X' and 'Z' are non-associative and require parentheses␤at /tmp/mWbU6KB83h:1␤------> say 1 X 2 Z⏏ 3␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ …»
TimToady m: say 1 | 2 ^ 3 07:51
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/_eVu3e0P_F␤Operators '|' and '^' are non-associative and require parentheses␤at /tmp/_eVu3e0P_F:1␤------> say 1 | 2 ⏏^ 3␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ …»
FROGGS morning
ohh, who did that?
TimToady \o
FROGGS backlogs
m: say 1 // 2 || 3 07:52
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«1␤»
FROGGS ahh, it was missing here
TimToady hmm 07:53
m: say 1 min 2 max 3
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/GNuq2FJ9Jd␤Operators 'min' and 'max' are non-associative and require parentheses␤at /tmp/GNuq2FJ9Jd:1␤------> say 1 min 2 ⏏max 3␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix…»
TimToady dunno why // vs || doesn't work yet 07:54
m: say 1 ^^ 2 || 3
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«3␤»
FROGGS token infix:sym<//> { <sym> <O('%tight_or, :assoc<left>, :pasttype<defor>')> } 07:55
TimToady but those are the same prec level as min/max
FROGGS is assoc<left> correct here?
TimToady not according to S03's prec table
FROGGS min/max just is:
token infix:sym<min> { <sym> >> <O('%tight_or')> }
token infix:sym<max> { <sym> >> <O('%tight_or')> }
I am going to spectest the removal of the :assoc 07:56
what is the reason that they should be non-assoc? 07:58
TimToady all list associative operators are non-associative if they differ 07:59
maybe these could be argued the other way 08:00
m: say 1 min 2 // 3 08:01
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady m: say 1 // 2 min 3
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/8TC6ZF6Mgs␤Operators '//' and 'min' are non-associative and require parentheses␤at /tmp/8TC6ZF6Mgs:1␤------> say 1 // 2 ⏏min 3␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤…»
TimToady there's an asymmetry
FROGGS well, *I* read it from left to right...
:o)
JimmyZ m: say 1 ^^ 2 ^^ 3 08:03
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
TimToady that one must be list associative to work with 'one' semantics 08:04
well, I think about this more in the morning; right now my eyes are no long opposite their sockets 08:05
*longer
TimToady --> zzz &
FROGGS gnight
JimmyZ m: say ( 1 ^^ 2 ) ^^ 3 08:07
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«3␤»
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lizmat commute to Copenhagen& 08:34
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FROGGS TimToady: removing the assoc for // and || fails to build the setting with: Operation 'defor' needs 2 operands 08:38
actually, it fails in stage mast
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grondilu "gnotify" notifies you when a player is online: www.freechess.org/Help/HelpFiles/gnotify.html 10:47
^should work with relayed games as well I guess 10:48
grondilu tries +notify GMCarlsen
FROGGS is Perl 6 actually a game?
grondilu oops
FROGGS :o)
grondilu sorry guys, wrong channel
FROGGS np
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smls m: say "abc,123,,xyz".comb(/<-[,]>*/).perl 11:28
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«("abc", "", "123", "", "", "xyz", "").list␤»
smls ^^any way to make this print «("abc", "123", "", "xyz").list␤» with comb? 11:29
moritz smls: no easy way; that's what split is for 11:30
osfameron suspects he will need to reconfigure his entire terminal chain just in order to be able to read perl6 code :-( 11:31
moritz smls: though you could cheat with look-arounds, I guess
osfameron what's the character after .list ?
moritz .u ␤
yoleaux U+2424 SYMBOL FOR NEWLINE [So] (␤)
moritz osfameron: that one
osfameron oh, is that just a glitch then? or part of the method name (e.g. .listNL ?) 11:32
smls moritz: I thought I could maybe rewrite rosettacode.org/wiki/Tokenize_a_str...ing#Perl_6 in a simpler way using comb, but it would end up just as complicated...
m: say "abc,123,,xyz".comb(/<-[,]>* )> ","?/).perl # this almost does the right thing... 11:36
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«("abc", "123", "", "xyz", "").list␤»
moritz m: say "abc,123,,xyz".comb(/<-[,]>* )> "," | <-[,]>+/).perl 11:38
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«("abc", "123", "", "xyz").list␤»
moritz m: say "abc,123,,xyz".comb(/<-[,]>* <?before ','> | <-[,]>+/).perl 11:39
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«("abc", "", "123", "", "", "xyz").list␤»
smls Could the Perl 5 version using «split» of the above rosetta code task be ported to Perl 6? 11:43
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moritz smls: yes 12:07
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moritz smls: iirc the $esc . (*SKIP)(*FAIL) is a workaround for look-behinds 12:07
smls no, not in this case 12:08
you need to parse the string step by step from left to right, to make sure you catch all escaped characters
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FROGGS osfameron: say() appends \n to the said string... and here camelia will output as U+2424 12:10
smls just finding the separator and the checking if the char behind it is the escape char, isn't enough, as it may be escaped itself
osfameron FROGGS: ah yes, output. I did just scan the class docs to see if there was a .listNL method though earlier :-) 12:11
(it seemed doubly mysterious, as it's mojibake for me)
FROGGS m: say '' 12:12
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«␤»
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moritz osfameron: maybe irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/today helps with the Mojibake problem :-) 12:13
osfameron moritz: there seems to be plenty of terrible encoding in that too :-) 12:14
but I do see the NL symbol there at least
FROGGS hmmm, it does not strip/convert color codes 12:15
moritz osfameron: yes, it always trips when the line length limit of the IRC server strips off continuation bytes 12:17
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azawawi hi 12:22
yoleaux 12 Nov 2014 14:29Z <lizmat> azawawi: don't think so, deprecations are basically runtime call to a special internal sub
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colomon ack, bootloads of new failures overnight. :( host08.perl6.com:8080/report 12:23
moritz colomon++ # smoking 12:24
azawawi colomon: panda install URI # is not working... 12:28
colomon: and hence Farabi6... :(
FROGGS checks URI 12:29
azawawi it seems to be the grammar parsing
FROGGS hmmmm
ok 1 - We use URI and we are still alive 12:30
Could not parse URI: example.com:80/about/us?foo#bar
moritz maybe related to LTM tie-breakers?
azawawi latest rakudo 12:32
2014.10-133-gf2ffb9a to be exact 12:33
FROGGS it only parses the 'http', but nothing after that 12:35
azawawi colomon: where is the version of the runtime in the smoke test?
colomon: s/test/results
colomon azawawi: the version of rakudo? 12:36
azawawi colomon: yup
colomon d7c74ef
FROGGS hmmm, it thinks that 'http' is a path_noscheme of a relative URI 12:37
colomon errr… that's not a version of rakudo
This is perl6 version 2014.10-131-g48edaa3 built on MoarVM version 2014.10-47-gd7c74ef
so 48edaa3 12:38
FROGGS of course this helps, but I guess that's the wrong way to fix it:
- token URI_reference { <URI> | <relative_ref> };
+ token URI_reference { <URI> || <relative_ref> };
moritz that supports my theory that it's connected to LTM 12:39
FROGGS moritz: yes, you are right about that 12:40
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moritz though the question is, why doesn't <URL> match longer? 12:41
FROGGS TimToady: here is some fallout of the longlit change: gist.github.com/FROGGS/ebfc9d5e903475d1c2b7 12:44
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moritz \o 14:23
I just received a mail with a pledge for the p6 server 14:24
along with this gem:
Thanks you so much for your amazing work. I would appreciate very much
if you could forward my appreciation to all your Perl 6 developer
friends and colleagues. I frequently read the IRC logs but I am too
shy to drop by just to say "Hi guys, good job. You are amazing". So if
you would do it for me, I would greatly appreciate it.
so, everybody, feel appreciated by carlo++!
14:26 jfredett joined
tadzik \o/ 14:28
carlo, you rock :)
jnthn waves tiredly :) 14:34
[Coke] pounces on jnthn! 14:35
jnthn had a long journey, followed by nice food
[Coke] (just kidding, I've only had one cup of coffee so far.)
jnthn Also figured out what I might talk about at FOSDEM :) 14:36
[Coke]: Hm, I suspect we have a double-digit timezone diff, given it's very bedtime here :)
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[Coke] jnthn: almost 10am here. 14:54
ugh, I have YA meeting in 6 minutes, time to grab more coffee, fer realz. 14:55
jnthn 11pm or so here 14:56
lizmat 4pm or so here :-) 14:58
(Tivoli Time)
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FROGGS carlo++ 15:02
15:02 chenryn left 15:10 lizmat left
jnthn lizmat: enjoy! ;) 15:11
jnthn rests &
PerlJam moritz: how much $$$ do you have pledged for the server? 15:15
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moritz PerlJam: around 1.5k EUR (taken with a grain of salt in both directions) 15:19
PerlJam: some pledges were "up to" and some "at least", so there's a lot of elasticity in there 15:20
PerlJam: and things are complicated; I'll send out an update once things are clearer
PerlJam moritz: Did I ever email you with an amount? If not, put me down for $50USD
15:20 KCL_ joined
moritz PerlJam: one thing seems certain though: we'll get decent hardware 15:20
PerlJam moritz++ thanks for coordinating everything. 15:21
moritz PerlJam: ok, thanks; I'll let you know the proceedings once things are clearer
for everybody interested: moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/ang391032014a.pdf this is the server I've ordered now, minus the additional ethernet cards 15:23
it's German, but the whole tech speak in it is English anyway :-)
TL;DR: 1U server 19" with 6 core x2 (hyperthreading), 32GB RAM, 2 * 2TB hard drive
*cores 15:24
the order hasn't been confirmed yet
on the software side, somebody mentioned I might want to investigate cgroups instead of virtualization for resource management 15:25
which would make the network management easier
any opinions on that?
PerlJam moritz: RAID?
moritz PerlJam: software raid
PerlJam ah 15:26
RAID1?
moritz (there's a controller in there, but it's a fake one; so just additional SATA ports)
PerlJam: I haven't really done the planning yet, but RAID1 sounds sensible to me 15:27
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PerlJam moritz: I imagine that more people have experience with virtualization (if you're sharing the admin load) than cgroups. 15:31
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moritz PerlJam: aye; but my experience with managing infrastructure is that in the end, it always comes back to me :/ 15:35
PerlJam: and I don't have experience with either right now
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JimmyZ moritz: someone said it's good to use cgroup to controll the cpu resource of kvm since kvm is also a process 15:56
seems Google Compute Engine is doing this 15:58
smls <3 .classify and .deepmap 15:59
JimmyZ has some experience with kvm 16:00
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Ven wow, matz seems to want to give ruby 3.0 soft/structural typing 16:05
www.omniref.com/blog/blog/2014/11/...lly-typed/
16:05 ecocode left
nwc10 is more curious about the "Matz presented a few major ideas for the next version of Ruby, including improvements in concurrency support, and JIT compilation" alluded to by that blog post 16:08
Ven nwc10: JIT has already happened to many implementations.. hehehe. Jruby "9k" will be a big thing. 16:09
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Ven nwc10: I think the part that impresses me the most about Jruby 9k is actually the fact they've reimplemented C on the JVM, so that the VM can effectively inline stuff between ruby and C 16:18
It looks like it's from the same place to the optimizer/JIT!
[Coke] .u § 16:20
yoleaux U+00A7 SECTION SIGN [Po] (§) 16:21
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ugexe nqp: my @a := nqp::list; nqp::push(@a,'x'); nqp::setelems(@a, 0); # does ::setelems(@a,0) free memory originally used by the 1 element of @a? 16:38
camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)»
( no output )
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[Coke] is there a ticket for that nqp-jvm abort? 16:46
ugexe nqp: say 1; # it always aborts just to clarify 16:51
camelia nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say 1; # i"␤current instr.: 'panic' pc 15673 (gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.pir:5731) (gen/parrot/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:425)␤»
..nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)»
..nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say 1; # i"␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:485 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/languages/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic:105)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:913 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/languages/nqp/lib/nqp.moarvm:comp_unit:872)␤ f…»
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FROGGS o\ 16:55
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FROGGS ugexe: does it matter if it frees mem? 16:56
ugexe FROGGS: no, im just looking at rakudo source and curious 16:57
FROGGS ugexe: the backend can decide when it frees and what it keeps longer in memory 16:58
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FROGGS it is just that the backend might be allowed to free something when it is not reachable anymore 16:58
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ugexe i see. this optimization (i think) is why i wondered 17:01
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e2ae...#L699-L700
netstar very elegant 17:04
japhb ugexe: Yeah, that's to preextend the backing array, so that it doesn't have to be grown repeatedly when you know exactly how big it will end up, but at the same time appearing empty so you can push onto it. 17:08
netstar %*ENV{'CWD'} is legal ?
japhb netstar: yes, but save yourself some typing and use %*ENV<CWD> instead ... or in this particular case (CWD), you may want to avoid it altogether, because every so often I see commits that change the behavior of cwd across threads and spawns -- IIRC, the current thread-local cwd is in $*CWD, not %*ENV<CWD>. 17:12
netstar thanks japhb !
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japhb np 17:13
netstar i am loving some of the new syntax
some of it just "makes sense!"
japhb netstar: :-) 17:14
ugexe m: my @a = <a b c>; say @a[-0]; # should this give the *- failure message? 17:22
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«a␤»
PerlJam ugexe: no. 17:24
japhb ugexe: Why would it? That's an int or Int, so we do not guarantee that -0 and +0 are different. 17:25
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PerlJam the message no longer says "negative subscript" anyway, right? 17:28
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PerlJam m: my @a; say @a[-4]; # just checkign 17:29
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Unsupported use of [-4] subscript to access from end of Array; in Perl 6 please use [*-4]␤ in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13756␤ in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16487␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/rQ1syAe1UW:1␤␤»
ugexe thats why im confused. any other negative int it will fail wanting a WhateverCode. but not for -0 17:32
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colomon ugexe: -0 is 0 17:32
17:32 kaleem left
raydiak also nobody coming from p5, c, js, ruby, lua, etc would expect it to do anything other than what it does in p6 too, if I'm not mistaken 17:32
(and good morning #perl6 \o) 17:33
ugexe colomon: gotcha. im not a math guy
PerlJam is hard pressed to think of a language that *does* distinguish -0
colomon m: say 0 === (-0)
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«True␤»
colomon PerlJam: Nums make the distinction.
but Ints do not.
m: say 0e1 === (-0e1) 17:34
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«True␤»
colomon m: say -0e1
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«-0␤»
colomon huh
I'd expect those to == but not ===
[Coke] FYI, fudge blocks don't work on arbitrary blocks, they have to start a line. 17:36
(the blocks)
raydiak m: say .WHICH for -0e0, 0e0 17:39
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Num|-0␤Num|0␤»
raydiak m: say 0e0 * -1 17:43
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«-0␤»
raydiak I think I'm with colomon...as much as it pains me that we even have a distinct -0, I would also not expect it to === 0 17:47
17:47 jluis_ left
raydiak and that's enough javascript-like nonsense for me for one morning :) 17:47
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TimToady one morning, everyone! 17:48
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raydiak \o TimToady 17:48
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japhb There's a reason floating point numbers have a -0, and it's not just for convenience in the bit layout. It's necessary to distinguish -0 and +0 for certain physical simulations. 17:49
TimToady is not surprised there was some fallout to the longlit patch, since there were places in the test suite that were inadvertently depending on ordering
raydiak japhb: why? 17:50
geekosaur isn't it really about limits?
TimToady for some equations you want to know which limit...yes, what geekosaur++ said 17:51
you can approach 0 from either side
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TimToady of course, by that argument, we should have two 1's, two 2's, etc :) 17:51
geekosaur numerical methods can do some really weird things when approaching 0 if you don't specify from which side (which is what the sign is being overloaded to do, because that "works" with numerical methods) 17:52
TimToady yes, 0 gets to be special, since, well, it is special
17:52 virtualsue left
geekosaur except that if you do it at 0 (and +/-inf) then you get it for anything else by adding a constant offset 17:53
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TimToady sure, the special can be moved around :) 17:53
geekosaur so 0, being in some sense weird anyway, gets the odd behavior
17:54 FROGGS left
TimToady re fudge and blocks, yes, fudge is like many preprocessors in being primarily line oriented in its declarations 17:54
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TimToady the only other approach requires parsing a known language, which has at least two difficulties here 17:55
one is that a mutable language like Perl 6 is not just a single language 17:56
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TimToady the second difficulty is that we're testing whether it's the language we think it is in the first place, so we can't make that assumption that we know which language we're parsing 17:56
so we have to rely on arbitrary markers, and nothing is handier for that purpose than the newlines
pod is much the same 17:57
and to a lesser extent, heredocs
anyway, that's why fudge ignores blocks that aren't where it expects them 17:58
and why the individual tests have to start and end on a line boundary, more or less 17:59
(we allow for some whitespace there) 18:00
18:00 chenryn joined 18:01 wolv- is now known as wolv 18:02 chenryn left 18:03 chenryn joined 18:04 dakkar left
sergot hi o/ 18:05
p: ()[*-1]
camelia rakudo-parrot f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Unsupported use of [-1] subscript to access from end of Parcel; in Perl 6 please use [*-1]␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 476005 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.pir:197349) (gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12131)␤called from Sub 'sink' pc 519057 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.…»
sergot r: ()[*-1] 18:06
camelia rakudo-parrot f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Unsupported use of [-1] subscript to access from end of Parcel; in Perl 6 please use [*-1]␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 476005 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.pir:197349) (gen/parrot/CORE.setting:12131)␤called from Sub 'sink' pc 519057 (src/gen/p-CORE.setting.…»
..rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unsupported use of [-1] subscript to access from end of Parcel; in Perl 6 please use [*-1]␤ at <unknown>:1 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-1/languages/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:throw:4294967295)␤ from src/gen/m-CORE.setting:1…»
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ugexe m: my @a; say "1:"~@a[0;-1]; say "2:"~@a[0;*-1]; @a.push('x'); say "3:"~@a[0;*-1]; 18:14
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«1:␤2:␤3:x␤»
18:16 ajr_ left 18:18 ajr joined, ajr is now known as Guest4540, Guest4540 is now known as ajr_ 18:20 rurban left 18:21 prevost left 18:22 jluis joined, jluis is now known as Guest39179 18:24 dwarring joined, jack_rabbit joined 18:25 ajr_ left 18:26 El_Che joined 18:27 spider-mario joined 18:33 FROGGS_ is now known as FROGGS, fhelmberger left
FROGGS TimToady: so you say that the output of the URI grammar is expected like it is now? 18:33
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dwarring r; grammar g { my rule foo {.}; my rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><.bar>} }; g.parse("hi"); 18:35
dwarring ....
FROGGS m: grammar g { my rule foo {.}; my rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><.bar>} }; say g.parse("hi");
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«No such method 'bar' for invocant of type 'g'␤ in regex TOP at /tmp/1wtwO5e6PG:1␤ in method parse at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:14182␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/1wtwO5e6PG:1␤␤»
FROGGS m: grammar g { rule foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><.bar>} }; say g.parse("hi"); 18:36
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«｢hi｣␤ foo => ｢h｣␤␤»
dwarring yeah that works
that's started happening since yesterday 18:37
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TimToady you can't call a 'my' regex with <.foo> 18:37
18:37 anaeem1 joined
TimToady that's been spec for a long time, but rakudo is sloppy on how it implements it 18:38
18:38 fhelmberger left, kurahaupo1 joined
TimToady it just says "Oh, the . is a no-op, call back into <assertion>" 18:38
[Coke] why does S32-io/spurt.t try to unlink the file 3 times? 18:39
TimToady it should really be calling into $~MAIN's methodop rule to parse the metod
*th
dwarring explains overnight CSS::Module failure - will fix 18:40
[Coke] (well, more than that, but right at the end.)
TimToady so, yeah, there's the <.foo> issue in addition to the longlit semantic that can now come in via either <foo> or <.foo> 18:46
Mouq m: grammar g { my rule foo {.}; my rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><&bar>} }; say g.parse("hi");
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«｢hi｣␤ foo => ｢h｣␤␤»
18:46 Mouq left 18:47 Mouq joined
TimToady (but not yet <&foo>, since that goes through INTERPOLATE) 18:47
there's also the <.&foo> variant, which appears to work too 18:48
I guess that work at the moment because QRegex throws away the . and parses it as <&foo>
[Coke] TimToady: I was just looking at the "pluralize paren..." commit. that's in an exception that is thrown from one method that is never explicitly called, it seems (EXPR_nonassoc) - how does that get invoked? 18:49
TimToady you'll note that <."foo"> won't work as a method call, since it's taken as <"foo">
npq/src/HLL/Grammar.nqp line 531 18:51
m: grammar g { rule foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><."bar"()>} }; say g.parse("hi"); 18:54
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter < (must be quoted to match literally)␤at /tmp/jk_KidFyEc:1␤------> foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><.⏏"bar"()>} }; say g.parse("hi");␤Malformed regex␤at /t…»
TimToady m: grammar g { rule foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><"bar">} }; say g.parse("hi"); 18:55
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized regex metacharacter < (must be quoted to match literally)␤at /tmp/S24QYniofJ:1␤------> foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><⏏"bar">} }; say g.parse("hi");␤Malformed regex␤at /tmp…»
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TimToady std: grammar g { rule foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><"bar">} }; say g.parse("hi"); 18:55
18:55 camelia left
TimToady darn it, where is camelia running? not host08, as far as I can tell... 18:55
[Coke] she was on 08 for a while. not sure if moritz moved her when we started having issues with the jvm there. 18:56
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TimToady n: grammar g { rule foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><"bar">} }; say g.parse("hi"); 18:57
18:57 gfldex joined
camelia std : OUTPUT«Can't chdir to '/home/camelia/std/snap': No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 166.␤ EvalbotExecuter::_auto_execute(HASH(0x1c009c8), "grammar g { rule foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><\"bar\""..., GLOB(0xa79da70), "/tmp/Jz0AMyF1fx", "std") cal…» 18:57
18:57 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
camelia niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Unrecognized regex assertion at /tmp/17tubWGmyq line 1:␤------> foo {.}; rule bar {.}; rule TOP {<foo><⏏"bar">} }; say g.parse("hi");␤␤Parse failed␤␤» 18:58
FROGGS TimToady: that's nine++'s machine
TimToady .seen nine
yoleaux I saw nine 17 Nov 2014 07:56Z in #perl6: <nine> The christmas before that ;)
TimToady nine++ for setting up camelia and ++nine for doing a search for /home/camelia in std's directory nad fixing it to the actual home dir 19:00
19:00 smls left
TimToady m: say %*ENV<HOME> 19:00
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«/home/camelia␤»
TimToady well, maybe that's not the problem 19:01
maybe it just needs a mkdir /home/camelia/std/snap
FROGGS yeah, we had to do that on a feather recentlyish
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TimToady hmm 19:09
FROGGS I don't understand why that URI grammar parses how it parses... 19:10
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TimToady was that the thing that | -> || fixed? 19:12
FROGGS yes
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FROGGS I golf it down right now 19:12
TimToady it's certainly possible there's a bug or two yet in the longlit
FROGGS TimToady: does the order in an | alternation matter? 19:13
because it does right now
TimToady it does if it gets to PEG rule 4
1 is LTM, 2 is longlit, 3 is derivation, 4 is order 19:14
FROGGS hmmmm
TimToady some of the issues I ran into earlier involved longlit stopping on a character class, so you can't parse both ? and ! in one expression, for instance, if you want to use longlit tiebreaking 19:17
of course, there's always the final tiebreaker, which is to fail to match the earlier rule and fail over to the later rule 19:18
but it's nice to avoid the overhead when possible
perltricks hey all I'm trying to translate this p5 one liner and not getting the right result. Any suggestions please?
FROGGS ohh, now that's funny
perltricks perl -e 'print join ".", map { ((2130706433>>8*($_))&0xFF) } reverse 0..3'
perl6 -e 'say join ".", map { ((2130706433+>8*($_))&0xFF) }, reverse 0..3'
FROGGS TimToady: I just need to comment this line: gist.github.com/FROGGS/ebfc9d5e903...il-pl6-L47
TimToady: ... to make it pick <URI> in line 39 19:19
PerlJam perltricks: +& rather than just &
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perltricks m:say join ".", map { ((2130706433+>8*($_))+&0xFF) }, reverse 0..3 19:20
FROGGS TimToady: putting the bars on the left do not help sadly
perltricks m: say join ".", map { ((2130706433+>8*($_))+&0xFF) }, reverse 0..3
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«0.0.0.0␤»
TimToady the longlit for that line is just '//', since authority starts with a ? term 19:21
perltricks Tekk_`: thanks! that's progress. It prints out 0.0.0.0 instead of 127.0.0.1 though
TimToady m: say join ".", map { ((2130706433+>(8*$_))+&0xFF) }, reverse 0..3 19:22
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␤»
TimToady precedence
perltricks TimToady: Ah yes, that's it. Thank you! 19:23
TimToady seems like we could do better though
Mouq m: map {$_}, 3...0 # wtf 19:24
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'map'; none of these signatures match:␤:(&code, *@values)␤:(Whatever, Any \a)␤:(&code, Whatever)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/SbCjmilju7:1␤␤»
TimToady precedence
... is looser than ,
Mouq Ahhhh
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perltricks I was wondering about that reverse. Because 3..0 doesn't do what I expected. But ... works. I can check the doccs for that one though 19:27
m: say join ".", map { ((2130706433+>(8*$_))+&0xFF) }, (3...0) 19:28
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␤»
Mouq perltricks: .. is just a Range, ... is a list generator
perltricks Mouq: got it, thanks 19:29
There's not pack/unpack routine in Perl 6 right?
TimToady there is, but it's incomplete
m: say 2130706433.chr.encode("utf-32").decode("latin-1") 19:31
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Unknown string encoding: 'utf32'␤ in method encode at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:7116␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/rddjryPan2:1␤␤»
TimToady aww
19:31 espadrine_ left
Mouq m: say @(pack "N", 2130706433).join(".") 19:32
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␤»
Mouq m: say join ".", @(pack "N", 2130706433)
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␤»
19:38 vendethiel joined, kurahaupo left 19:39 Isp-sec joined
flussence m: say join q{.}, ([\+>] 2130706433, 0o10 xx 3).reverse »+&» 0xFF 19:40
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«127.0.0.1␤»
flussence can't really golf it down as far as &pack :)
19:43 kurahaupo joined
Mouq flussence: Well, tbh, I'm not really sure if that's how &pack is supposed to work or if that's just a convenient bug 19:43
flussence m: say (pack "N", 2130706433) 19:44
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Buf:0x<7f 00 00 01>␤»
flussence ah, looks intentional...
TimToady we've talked about a repeating divmod from time to time
19:46 darutoko left
perltricks hah, thanks all! 19:52
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FROGGS TimToady: that's what I had to do: github.com/FROGGS/uri/commit/8c9e2...700f62fdcd 19:56
TimToady: so even when the URI I am parsing does not touch the branches that start with '//', the literals make the entire token more important 19:57
not only the branch they are in
at least, that is what I think is going on 19:58
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[Coke] thanks the Perl 6 folks for, in general, being decent human beings. Thanks. :) 20:00
PerlJam Coke: that's a weird thing to be thanked for, but on behalf of my fellow humans ... you're welcome. :) 20:03
TimToady where "decent" is generally defined as "pretending to be decent most of the time" :)
20:04 tinyblak left
flussence I think simply being here has defused a lot of the bad habits I learned from the rest of the internet... :) 20:04
FROGGS TimToady: that's the correct link now 20:05
TimToady it wasn't before?
it looks...immutable...
FROGGS -> github.com/FROGGS/uri/commit/7380a...96f68aa28d 20:06
-.-
20:06 dwarring left
FROGGS seem like I forgot a 20:06
seems* 20:07
-.-
TimToady hier_part still has '//'
is that intentional?
FROGGS yes
if I patch it the same I end up getting 'http:/' for a subparse 20:08
TimToady maybe there needs to be a $ or $$ in there somewhere 20:09
FROGGS but my test is just: say IETF::RFC_Grammar::URI.subparse('example.com:80/about/us?foo#bar'); 20:10
TimToady maybe I'll need to play with the grammar myself rather than cheering from the sidelines 20:12
FROGGS m: grammar G { token TOP { <bar> | <foo> }; token foo { \w+ }; token bar { <foo> | aa } }; say G.subparse('bb') 20:13
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«｢bb｣␤ bar => ｢bb｣␤ foo => ｢bb｣␤␤»
FROGGS is that correct?
20:13 anaeem1 joined
FROGGS m: grammar G { token TOP { <foo> | <bar> }; token foo { \w+ }; token bar { <foo> | aa } }; say G.subparse('bb') 20:13
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«｢bb｣␤ foo => ｢bb｣␤␤»
TimToady something seem a little off there 20:14
FROGGS yeah, and that is what the URI problem boils down to I think
20:15 denis_boyun left
FROGGS star-m: grammar G { token TOP { <bar> | <foo> }; token foo { \w+ }; token bar { <foo> | aa } }; say G.subparse('bb') 20:15
TimToady okay, I'll poke at that one some later today, but first lunch, and maybe a nap, since I'm still recovering from my sniffle...
camelia star-m 2014.09: OUTPUT«｢bb｣␤ bar => ｢bb｣␤ foo => ｢bb｣␤␤»
FROGGS hmmm 20:16
colomon is trusting FROGGS++
FROGGS /o\
TimToady part of the problem may be that rakudo doesn't do fates quite as completely as STD does
if a subrule has alternatives, it may be confusing them with each other in terms of fate, and the longlit info currently rides along with the fate 20:17
STD kept the subfates distinct, but rakudo just relabels the top NFA with a new fate, so maybe we're losing info somewhere 20:18
FROGGS that's the point where I guess I have to nod, since I always have problems imagining that 20:19
TimToady I thought I kept the longlit info distinct, but maybe not...
anyway, that's a good one-liner test case
or as far as I can tell, without mental nutrition... 20:20
lunch &
FROGGS couch & 20:21
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colomon just moved URI to perl6-community-modules 20:26
FROGGS colomon++
colomon FROGGS++ # seems to work now
FROGGS nice 20:28
would be interesting to see what is left open from the some run 20:29
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moritz was it grammar implementation bug, or an URI bug, or both? 20:31
FROGGS feels like a grammar impl bug 20:32
20:35 mj41 left
colomon FROGGS: I can always fire off another smoke run if you're interested. takes about 30 minutes. 20:35
FROGGS ohh yes 20:37
that'd be awesome :o)
perltricks ok y'all, just 1 one liner left to translate: "convert an ip address into an unsigned integer" github.com/sillymoose/Perl6-One-Liners 20:43
m: say join ",", @(unpack("N", "127.0.0.1") 20:45
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/px6qoPnghI␤Unable to parse expression in contextualizer; couldn't find final ')' ␤at /tmp/px6qoPnghI:1␤------> say join ",", @(unpack("N", "127.0.0.1")⏏<EOL>␤ expecti…»
perltricks m: say join ",", @(unpack "N", "127.0.0.1")
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/LBEbDqsbS3␤Undeclared routine:␤ unpack used at line 1. Did you mean 'pack'?␤␤»
Mouq m: say buf8.new(+«"127.0.0.1".split(".")).unpack("N") 20:49
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«2130706433␤»
Mouq m: say Buf.new(+«"127.0.0.1".split(".")).unpack("N")
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«2130706433␤»
20:50 telex left
japhb What's perl6-community-modules (other than a github organization)? Meaning, why are modules moved there, and what are its rules? 20:50
TimToady m: say :256["127.0.0.1".comb(/\d+/)]
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«2130706433␤»
japhb m: say +':256[127,0,0,1] 20:51
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/8MDks417fJ␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" ␤at /tmp/8MDks417fJ:1␤------> say +':256[127,0,0,1]⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ …»
japhb m: say +':256[127,0,0,1]'
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«2130706433␤»
20:52 telex joined
japhb Seriously though, is perl6-community-modules intended as a place to put modules you're relinquishing ownership of? Or just to make it easier to collaborate with other org members? Or something else? 20:53
flussence I take it to mean "these seem high-profile enough to need a bus number > 1" 20:54
TimToady well, but it can't mean just that; merely making the github repo available does that
I take it to also have a component of "the original author doesn't mind a fork" 20:55
20:55 spider-mario left
TimToady "so we'll just put it somewhere where everyone can neglect it" :P 20:56
japhb :-/ 20:57
perltricks Mouq: got it, thanks! 20:59
flussence after poking through it I get an impression it's used for things where someone needed a fix more urgently than upstream was willing to apply it 21:01
TimToady so temporary forks, then, for possibly permanent definitions of temporary 21:02
depending on the upstream
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flussence it's a fairly githubby way of doing the "distro patchset" thing that happens in the wider world, I guess. 21:04
21:04 Mso150 left
japhb Hmmm, who is a member? I appear to not be, so it's not the perl6 org 21:04
TimToady m: say +":256[{'127.0.0.1'.subst(/\./,',')]" 21:05
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/5DwEQf6rqW␤Unable to parse expression in block; couldn't find final '}' ␤at /tmp/5DwEQf6rqW:1␤------> say +":256[{'127.0.0.1'.subst(/\./,',')⏏]"␤ expecting any of:␤…»
TimToady m: say +":256[{'127.0.0.1'.subst(/\./,',')}]"
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: malformed ':256' style radix number, expecting comma separated decimal values after opening '[' in ':256[127,0⏏.0.1]' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13756␤ in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.…»
TimToady m: say +":256[{'127.0.0.1'.subst(:g,/\./,',')}]" 21:06
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«2130706433␤»
21:06 ptc_p6 left 21:07 ptc_p6 joined
TimToady though that one is ready-made for an injection attack 21:07
well, maybe not quite 21:08
21:09 kaare_ left 21:10 Mso150 joined 21:15 ptc_p6 left 21:22 camelia left 21:23 Guest39179 left, camelia joined 21:25 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia, rindolf left 21:29 itz_ joined, itz left 21:32 lizmat joined 21:38 Mso150 left
TimToady hmm, no dalek 21:38
anyway, current nom says:
> my @a = 1,2,3; say @a[*-5]
Index [-2] is out of range; indices start at 0 for objects of type Array
though the exception is still misnamed 21:39
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FROGGS sergot: ^^ 21:42
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/b2...8c48d33a8a 21:43
" deconfuse out-of-range index with obsolete syntax "
21:44 kjs_ left
FROGGS .oO( I can call you daddy, when you call me d-Al-ek ) 21:44
ohh, was it actually betty?
lizmat does anybody have opinions about my idea of having ().end return Nil ? 21:46
m: ().end.say 21:47
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«-1␤»
moritz lizmat: IMHO that mixes types / categories a bit too much
the typical thing would be to return an undef, so Int
TimToady it's just an out-of-range indiex, that's all 21:48
lizmat ok, Int then...
TimToady no, it wants to be -1
it's just a logic error, and should blow up
lizmat does a git stash drop
japhb
.oO( Does a git stash drop? )
 21:49
Sometimes ...
TimToady Today, Tomorrow... 21:50
sorry, was free-associating with Who's on First
21:50 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Rakudo build failed. TimToady 'deconfuse out-of-range index with obsolete syntax' 21:50
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/41411943 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/f...bf90cc2dc6
21:50 travis-ci left
TimToady wonder why travis is failing 21:50
*ders
TimToady tries rebuilding without =master 21:53
FROGGS hmmm, do we need to bump versions again? 21:54
MAST/Ops.nqp is new IIRC
hmmm, maybe not...
lizmat japhb: to clarify, I had some code in the stash for making ().end return Nil 21:55
I don't anymore :-)
FROGGS I think travis had just a hickup 21:56
vendethiel flowtype.org/ wow, facebook adding yet another gradual types to a language 21:57
I guess it's so much better than TS and the likes.
Also, guess if it works with their own JSX project.
21:57 FROGGS left 22:00 virtualsue joined
timotimo i think we need a newer mvm version 22:02
a fresh rakudobrew is complaining that moarvm doesn't have close_fsh
close_fhi*
what. both my MoarVM and nqp are at master 22:05
i'm confused. 22:06
with a current rakudobrew i get "MoarVM op 'close_fhi' is unknown as a core or extension op" ?!? 22:08
moar --version gives me 2014.10-60
TimToady rebuilds fine without master 22:10
timotimo i'm very confused
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ugexe m: my @a; say @a[0;*-2]; 22:14
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«␤»
ugexe m: my @a; say @a[0;-2];
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«␤»
22:15 Augustus joined
ugexe should 0;-2 throw the *-1 failure? 22:16
TimToady never gets there, since 0 doesn't exist
ugexe yeah i understand why it does that
TimToady and we presume that by the time people have learned the multi-dim syntax, they've got the message on the need for * 22:17
it'll still blow up, just not till run time 22:18
ugexe trying to trace down the *-1 on an empty list and using random code to find my way through
TimToady can't make the compiler check everything, or it'll be even slower
m: say ()[*-1]
camelia rakudo-moar f2ffb9: OUTPUT«Unsupported use of [-1] subscript to access from end of Parcel; in Perl 6 please use [*-1]␤ in method gist at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13756␤ in sub say at src/gen/m-CORE.setting:16487␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ekaRoYodgt:1␤␤»
TimToady not updated yet
it'll have a different message
Index [-1] is out of range; indices start at 0 for objects of type Parcel 22:19
of course, the GLR is getting rid of Parcel, so then it will say List 22:20
Augustus is there any documentation anywhere on %*LANG and how to make your own grammar/actions into a slang? 22:21
ugexe ah, i thought there might be side effects someplace else with a Whatever getting turned into the wrong thing
22:21 anaeem1 left
TimToady no, it's working as designed, just that 0-1 comes out to the value -1, which is out of range 22:22
japhb TimToady: What's the status of the GLR? Is it paused right now, or is pmichaud working feverishly but locally? 22:23
TimToady Augustus: not really, other than the things FROGGS++ has been working on, and reading related bits of the implementation in source
and knowing how derived grammars work in general in Perl 6
slangs are just an application of that, fed back into the current language braid 22:24
which Perl 6 parsers have been doing internally for years
there's some stuff about slang syntax in the synopses that is not very implemented yet 22:25
on the camelia std thing, it looks to me like the build.pl std in crontab is not successfully making a new snapshot for some reason, but I have no way to diagnose that remotely 22:26
22:26 travis-ci joined
travis-ci Rakudo build failed. Elizabeth Mattijsen 'Fix whitespace' 22:26
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/41416879 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/b...d3d5038647
22:26 travis-ci left
Augustus slangs can be any arbitrary grammar, right? They don't need to derive from perl 6? 22:26
TimToady right, it's up to the grammar you poke into the braid (represented in the parser by %*LANG) 22:27
Augustus but if your actions don't generate AST appropriately, it's essentially going to 'run' at compile time, right?
like you have to understand how P6 generates code for the VM 22:28
but you generate AST and it will go through the same JIT etc that any other language would
TimToady well, we try to mediate all actions through NQP these days, which should be VM agnostic 22:29
there's very little VM-specific code left at that level
Augustus right
TimToady writing nqp is, however, something of an obscure art 22:30
Augustus i mean that obviously your action methods get run at compile time essentially
TimToady yes, and the downstream is expecting QAST of some sort
Augustus and to actually have code written in your grammar result in something that ultimately gets executed at 'runtime' you generate AST
and i'm guessing the only way to figure out how to generate appropriate AST (what does the Q stand for?) is to look at the rakudo source? 22:31
TimToady yes, you're now near enemy lines :) 22:32
Mouq Augustus: I have a thing
Augustus Mouq: yes?
Mouq But essentially you've got the gist
TimToady and your battle plans will require reconnaissance 22:33
one nice thing is that as you're generaing QAST, there's always a .dump method
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Augustus I will take your word on that, I haven't even gotten to the first thing about generating QAST, I figured I would have to browse the rakudo source but haven't yet 22:35
my goal is just to make a tiny, tiny toy language
and be able to use Toy etc
TimToady m: nqp::say( (quasi { 1 + 2 }).dump ); # curious 22:36
camelia rakudo-moar b2bf90: OUTPUT«No such method 'dump' for invocant of type 'AST'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ec005m4JUa:1␤␤»
TimToady I guess AST is hiding the QAST inside somehow
22:37 ClarusCogitatio joined
Augustus Do you know, is $*MAIN := 'Perl5'; the line that actually switches the current grammar? I'm poking in the v5 source trying to understand what's going on 22:39
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TimToady doesn't seem quite right to me 22:45
maybe it's something v5 sets to talk to itself though
Augustus there's also some $*W.install_lexical_symbol calls
but I don't know what $*W is
raydiak tuxic looks like it does it in a very similar way, though via nqp: github.com/FROGGS/p6-Slang-Tuxic/b...xic.pm#L32 22:46
Augustus ok, that appears to be setting the main langauge to be whatever the current main language is with Tuxic mixed in 22:47
just on a surface reading
Mouq Sorry, I was called away. This was written a little last minute and not quite worked on as much as I'd like mouq.github.io/slangs.html 22:48
raydiak I assume b/c its a slight variation instead of an entirely separate language
Augustus yeah. Is $*MAIN as alias then for $*LANG<MAIN> ?
Mouq It was written as a paper in my English class
Augustus: Nope
lizmat TimToady: re ().[-1] vs ().[*-1] 22:49
$ 6 'say ().[*-1]'
Effective index [-1] is out of range for a Parcel of 0 elements (*-1)
$ 6 'say ().[-1]'
Unsupported use of [-1] subscript to access from end of Parcel; in Perl 6 please use [*-1]
Mouq That should probably be cleared up in the document.. but it's just the key of %*LANG that the current language is contained in 22:50
Augustus Mouq: Tuxic appears to be binding to $*LANG<MAIN> while v5 is doing $*MAIN := xxxx; can you explain the difference?
so $*LANG<MAIN> has no special significance, but $*MAIN tells which key in LANG to look at? 22:51
woolfy London Perl Workshop videos are online now. Like this one by Stefan Seifert: www.youtube.com/watch?v=JZD2Diw1Tb...p;index=27
Mouq %*LANG<MAIN> === Perl6::Grammar, %*LANG{$*MAIN} === {Current slang} 22:52
The name is probably sub-optimal from a user-facing perspective
Augustus ahh, ok $*LANG<MAIN> is *always* p6
so when writing p6 code, $*MAIN will == "MAIN"
also, I see these modules make this changes inside the export function, but I see no explicit cleanup or rollback. I take it there's an implicit mechanism which will rollback when a block ends? 22:55
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Mouq Well, only in the parser -- it can't normally be accessed. But `my $r #`["MAIN"] = q[[ #`["Q"] ]] ~~ rx/ ^ #`["Regex"] / 22:56
Mouq has to go
22:56 Mouq left
lizmat just committed github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2d...3e28a86d1f and github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/93...faa1b41b2c 22:59
23:00 treehug88 left
perturbation hi all - just downloaded/built rakudo from github and I have a dumb question. Are Parrot/MoarVM independent backends, or is there a dependency/hierarchy there? 23:01
lizmat they're completely independent
parrot was only used to bootstrap MoarVM (afaik) 23:02
sorry, NQP on MoarVM I should say
Augustus when you configure you can tell it what backends you want, and I noticed you no longer have to build parrot 23:03
my memory says it used to be required at some point
lizmat indeed
but no moer
more
perturbation hmm... will parrot continue to be a supported backend or is it being phased out?
lizmat good question...
Augustus my understanding is some people still work on it, but it hasn't been even close feature wise for a long time 23:04
lizmat yup, nor performance wise
Augustus JIT doesn't work at all on parrot right?
lizmat so one could argue that parrot is there for historical reasons only
perturbation gotcha - I'll check out some of the tutorials/rosetta code to get started 23:05
lizmat there's a JIT in MoarVM, and the JVM has a JIT: parrot does not
perturbation I was just wondering since I didn't really understand what was connected to what
23:05 perltricks left
lizmat the only connection between the backends is really NQP 23:06
if you want a new backend for Rakudo Perl 6, you need to create a backend for NQP
Augustus it is confusing since google will often show results that are 5 or 10 years old :(
lizmat the rest should more or less follow automagically
japhb Once long ago, parrot had the beginnings of a JIT, but it was unmaintained and broken, so the #parrot folks voted to remove it in the hopes of replacing with something better and less broken. That did not come to pass.
Augustus parrot is still to this day based on PIR? 23:07
lizmat yes
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lizmat (afaik) :-) 23:07
m: ().[*-1]
camelia rakudo-moar b2bf90: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Index [-1] is out of range; indices start at 0 for objects of type Parcel␤ at <unknown>:1 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/languages/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:throw:4294967295)␤ from src/gen/m-CORE.setting:13764 (/home/came…»
lizmat that message will change again
Augustus but MOAR has some fundamentally different take on bytecode; not sure exactly what's different in terms of philosophy
lizmat check moarvm.org, I would say :-) 23:08
bronco_creek Hi. I'm trying to use panda to install JSON::Path with my 2014/9 rakudo* on moarvm. It's failing a test. Any advice? 23:09
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travis-ci Rakudo build failed. Elizabeth Mattijsen 'Make difference between [-1] and [*-1] 23:10
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/41421513 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/4...c2b4c4e16d
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raydiak bronco_creek: I can at least confirm the failure...embedding perl code in the path doesn't seem to work properly, but if you don't care about that, installing via 'panda --notests' may still work for your purposes 23:29
lizmat sleep&
bronco_creek raydiak: thanks
raydiak good night lizmat
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bronco_creek radiak: Should I use yoleaux or something to alert jnthn? I'm not bot savvy. 23:31
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raydiak bronco_creek: if you wanted to, you can ".tell jnthn something" 23:31
a bug on the github repo might do it too, but sometimes the busier ones of us don't notice the github notifications 23:32
bronco_creek .tell jnthn When I try to use panda to install JSON::Path with my 2014/9 rakudo* on moarvm it fails a test. 23:36
yoleaux bronco_creek: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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bronco_creek radiak: Thanks again. Bye for now. 23:38
raydiak bronco_creek: you're welcome! good luck
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