»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 25 June 2013.
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[Coke] jnthn: sorry. no luck making things fail this evening. 01:35
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raydiak \o * 01:55
colomon o/ 02:00
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raydiak colomon: what have you been up to? 02:32
colomon Trying to clean up Unicode filename handling in my C++ $work code. 02:36
raydiak eh...idk specifically what that entail, but I'm sorry :)
*entails 02:37
colomon It entails trying to deal with Microsoft's incompetence.
raydiak even more "eh"/ew...sorry :P
colomon basically, I've gone through my filename class and made sure it handles utf8 in char *s and utf16 or utf32 in wchar_t *s, depending on where the code is compiling. 02:38
raydiak learned perl 5 in his late teens and got spoiled too much to go very far w/things like C 02:39
colomon and it's only just now occurred to me to wonder if one (or more?) of the libraries I have to interface with may be using utf16 in 4-byte wchar_t class, because they are programming like they are on (broken) Windows even though their code is actually running on OS X / Linux. 02:40
And I've got no idea how I'm going to determine whether that is the case.
raydiak I have it in my memory for whatever reason that we have similar interests...do you have any interest in Math::Symbolic? 02:43
colomon oh, yes. :)
haven't really had time to look at it yet 02:44
raydiak it's a one-man band atm, but I'm totally down for more awesome people to swoop in and make it more serious at any time :)
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colomon is going through a life phase where he is pretty much perpetually wildly behind in everything he needs to do. 02:44
raydiak it needs a serious API, is where it's at atm...has some decent functionality, like solving for a variable in many cases, and compiling to perl 6, but justis plain "not done" 02:45
colomon I did poke a bit recently at Math::ContinuousFractions, but I'm running into infinite loops where I think laziness should be working for me, and haven't had time to sort it out. 02:46
raydiak it's close to being able to replace large parts of the primitive definitions in Pray w/the solving and precompiling abilities 02:47
colomon Pray?
raydiak that raytracer I used to write about 02:48
cyberuniverses.com/pray/
written in P6
colomon Oh! 02:49
raydiak it's basically how I introduced myself to #perl6, over a year ago now
colomon I remember the raytracer, forgot the name. :)
raydiak yeah that thing :)
the only thing stopping me atm, off the top of my head, is figuring out exactly how to deal with the ± resulting from solving a quadratic when calling .compile 02:51
colomon huh. I wouldn't think that would be that hard... 02:52
raydiak it's not, I'm just indecisive
colomon apologizes for phazing in and out of the conversation here, trying to juggle some $work and dishes at the same time. ;) 02:53
raydiak nah yer fine didn't even notice
anyway, Math::Symbolic has serious implications beyond itself and myself, like auto-generating the math/logic for your games and simulations, so I'm just looking for people besides me who might be interested in contributing 02:55
I used it to solve the leading problem in 3D as the intersection of a 4D line and a hypercone :) 02:57
colomon I absolutely am interested, but at the moment I cannot see myself having much in the way of tuits before 2015 02:58
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raydiak awesome, good news to me...by then it'll likely be more stable anyway 03:02
(in terms of api...runtime seems stable already)
jimmy_ Does it run on MoarVM ?
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raydiak well ya :) 03:03
not sure if I've tested it on anything else yet...
but cpandatesters has
(though I can't seem to get those result sto load atm) 03:07
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colomon raydiak: just went spulunking through the library code in question, and in fact they with malice aforethought return utf-16 in wchar_t values even if wchar_t is 4 or 8 bytes. (Who does 8 bytes?) :( 03:41
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BenGoldberg Some strange 64 bit platform which can process strings which use 8 bytes per wchar_t faster than other sizes. 03:47
geekosaur would be tempted to suggest Alpha
colomon The good news is I think my code will handle utf32 in 8 byte characters in a pinch. 03:48
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geekosaur ok, not alpha, it was 4 byte 03:52
it does sound like some platform that used (long) for wchar_t and then ported to 64 bit 03:53
colomon the better news is there is not such thing as utf64 03:55
BenGoldberg That would verge on madness! 04:03
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dalek osystem: a2f27de | (Nick Patch)++ | META.list:
add Geo::Region
 05:18
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raydiak if I define a .list() method but my class doesn't do Positional, will it do anything other than let people say @$object? e.g. it won't get called in list context or stuff like that, right? 07:20
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moritz raydiak: stuff in a scalar container generally isn't automatically iterated over 07:53
m: say(42) for [1, 2, 3] 07:54
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«42␤»
raydiak true, and since it can't go in an @ either, I guess it's only an applicable question when the object is used as the return value from a routine without an intermediate container 07:55
moritz iirc map/for use Iterable to decide whether to iterate over a non-itemized object 07:56
raydiak ah, thanks, will read up on that 07:57
moritz not sure much of it is documented
m: say Positional ~~ Iterable
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«False␤»
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moritz raydiak: also, Any has a 'list' method, so all your objects already have one 07:58
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raydiak oh, well that answers that then :) 07:58
moritz++
FROGGS morning 07:59
raydiak \o FROGGS
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hahainternet so nativecall has no union support it seems, that's a shame 08:33
i need to find some stuff to write in p6
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grondilu rosettacode.org/wiki/Fast_Fourier_t...orm#Perl_6 is broken, apparently because it's not possible anymore to extract a finite list of values with an infinite list of indices. 08:36
perl6: my @a = 1 .. 10; say @a[0, 2 ... *];
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grondilu is not sure what the spec has to say about that. 08:36
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camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} dfcf9f: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 08:37
FROGGS hahainternet: talk to timotimo, he was about to implement that
hahainternet: so he has at least some insights
hahainternet FROGGS: rgr, i'm not sure what's blocking it but i've not written anything useful in p6 yet so 08:38
FROGGS hahainternet: you might want to skim the advent posts, or skim the module list for inspiration 08:39
sergot hey o/ 08:40
FROGGS hi sergot
hahainternet FROGGS: i did but finding details even on 'repr' and its implementation is frustrating
short terms, hard to google for, and i'm inexperienced
grondilu perl6: my @a = 1 .. 10; say @a[0, 2 ...^ * >= @a]; # kind of ugly, is there a better way to write this?
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} dfcf9f: OUTPUT«1 3 5 7 9␤»
FROGGS hahainternet: this should shed some lights: github.com/edumentab/rakudo-and-nq...als-course 08:43
hahainternet: here are pdf's: edumentab.github.io/rakudo-and-nqp-...ls-course/
hahainternet yep already there :)
thanks
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eiro o/ #perl6 09:03
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azawawi hi 09:11
yoleaux 30 Nov 2014 16:46Z <timotimo> azawawi: will you write a post on the advent calendar about farabi6?
azawawi timotimo: ping 09:12
azawawi takes a look at HTTP::Server::Async 09:13
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azawawi .tell timotimo Please see github.com/azawawi/farabi6/issues/59 09:37
yoleaux azawawi: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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dalek volaj: 4d9eb73 | (Rob Hoelz)++ | t/08-callbacks.c:
Remove strdup in Str callback example

MoarVM no longer attempts to free strings coming in via callbacks; other implementations should follow soon		 09:40
volaj: c2e7e3c | (Rob Hoelz)++ | README.markdown:
Add callback example to README
volaj: 6bf4145 | jonathan++ | / (2 files):
Merge pull request #52 from hoelzro/master

Documentation for function arguments, and removal of strdup in Str callback test
azawawi .tell timotimo im currently busy a bit @ $work. Hopefully workload will lighten up a bit after December. The HTTP::Server::Async idea is great. Is EventSource possible with it? 09:48
yoleaux azawawi: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
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Ulti how can I grab an account on the advent calendar ahead of time? 09:52
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moritz Ulti: /msg me your email address 09:56
Ulti k k 09:57
masak antenoon, #perl6 09:59
moritz \o masak
jnthn .tell hoelzro I'd suggesting giving make_where_block a third optional argument, which defaults to QAST::Var.new( :name('$_'), :scope('lexical') ), and then pass in the QAST tree to make it do $_.signature where you are calling it. 10:01
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to hoelzro.
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Ulti moritz can we get the pygments plugin via wordpress.com? 10:17
moritz Ulti: I have no idea if we can 10:18
Ulti: I tend to use tools that generate HTML, and copy&paste the output into the HTML box 10:19
Ulti yeah I did that but you can't include any <style> tags 10:21
just checking if the appspot version of pygments has the perl6 support installed or not, not much point otherwise
moritz according to wordpress.com/products/custom-css/ you can put custom CSS somewhere, but I haven't managed to do that yet 10:25
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blackbolt Hi, someone install Steroids? i have problem : "Cannot locate native library './sdlwrapper.so" 10:50
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carlin blackbolt: did you run `make -f Makefile.sdlwrapper` ? 11:00
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blackbolt carlin: yes, there was "sdl-config" -unknown command 11:02
carlin : sdl2-config * 11:03
moritz that would it explain it, I guess :-)
blackbolt: you probably need to install the sdl2 development headers (+config program)
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blackbolt mortiz : i will do that 11:05
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Ulti moritz you'd need admin rights for that though 11:44
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moritz Ulti: I have admin rights 11:46
Ulti moritz well here's a bunch of pygments classes ;P gist.github.com/asaaki/1007420 11:47
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Ulti it's annoying GitHub stopped using pygments otherwise embedded Gist would have worked nicely 11:49
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colomon huh. cleanest smoke test run in days, but I don't understand why. :\ 11:55
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carlin colomon: LibraryMake was fixed yesterday, would have a fixed a few projects 12:01
colomon ah 12:02
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smls o/ 12:09
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smls is enjoying mst's advent calendar ("mstpan") in which each day he provides an opinionated overview of available Perl 5 modules for a particular task: shadow.cat/blog/matt-s-trout/ 12:19
^^ might also be of interest to Perl 6 module authors looking for inspiration / prior art / cautionary tales
Ulti so how do I get around "Circular module loading detected" when there is no actual circular dependencies other than two classes might want to produce each other 12:35
do they have to be in the same file?
or is it just that I'm doing use rather than require or something
dalek ecs: a3cb57b | (Nick Patch)++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
[S32::Exception] remove double-a typo
 12:38
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FROGGS Ulti: perhaps put it in the same file, then stub class A, then declare B and A 12:44
Ven "valgrind is not just a leak checker" 12:52
maintainablecode.logdown.com/posts/...ak-checker
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brrt \o 12:57
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Ulti this feels like a bigger problem though if you have a bunch of classes that coerce to each other 13:01
FROGGS you just need to stub the A's once
and this should perhaps also work across files/CUs 13:02
arnsholt masak: Oooh, those were interesting posts. Thanks for mentioning it!
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Ven needs to clog masak's links 13:06
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smls moritz, Ulti (re. custom CSS on wordpress): I've read that's only possible if you either self-host your wordpress blog, or upgrade to a paid plan on wordpress.com 13:08
masak arnsholt: I have completely lost context ;) no idea what posts those were, but glad they were interesting. 13:10
smls although you can embed CSS in a <style></style> element in your post contents
arnsholt masak: mstpan =)
Oh, except it was smls, not you
Apparently I have still not had enough caffeine this morning >.< 13:11
colomon caffeine++
moritz (not needing caffeine)++ 13:12
colomon moritz: indeed :)
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smls Ulti: Also, I've tried the pygments plugin on a local wordpress install, and it isn't very good. 13:14
For example, non-ASCII characters tripped it up badly. 13:15
And it inserted a huge CSS block before every single syntax-highlighted code snippet, rather than just one per page.
(which significantly affected page load time for a page with many code snippets) 13:16
Ulti lame 13:21
smls Ulti: Note that you can manually pipe your code snippets through pygmentize though (which is installed with Pygments), using «pygmentize -f html -O nowrap -l perl6 -o output.htm input.p6» 13:24
Or write your file in HTML and make sure all code snippets are in <code></code> tags, and then use my convenience script on it: github.com/smls/undef/blob/master/...de-tags.p6
(although the script still has some rough edges) 13:25
And then add something like this to the top of the HTML: gist.github.com/smls/a67af2e2c6466df32dc9
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moritz or you could use Text::VimColor 13:28
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colomon wonders how hard it would be to make a p6 version of Text::VimColor... 13:46
FROGGS ++colomon 13:47
:D
Ulti yeah smls I was already doing that but the problem is <style> is stripped out by Wordpress 13:58
I think moritz can probably allow all HTML in posts though
smls really? 13:59
Ulti yarly
smls it's not stripped out in my install
Ulti at least with the current security settings
smls maybe it's a *wordpress.com* thing, to promote their premium plan which includes custom CSS support?
Ulti smls well I literally just tried this
moritz Ulti: would it help you if I gave you admin privs? 14:03
Ulti :S perhaps 14:04
moritz Ulti: what's your wordpress user name? 14:05
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Ulti though it's perhaps a better plan if I get some crappy wordpress.com blog to play in and work it out first 14:05
moritz matteoates
moritz Ulti: ok, you should be admin now 14:06
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Ulti uh oh 14:38
yeah I think its more this version of wordpress is some funky one specific to wordpress.com like all the stuff you might want to change and use ask you to pay £70 a year 14:40
smls :( 14:41
Does it at least allow inline style="" attributes? 14:42
Ulti not sure
smls Did you test if <style> elements are stripped even when posting as admin? 14:43
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Ulti yeah they are 14:45
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masak m: role A {}; role B does A {}; multi foo(A) { say "A" }; multi foo(B) { say "B" }; foo(B.new) 15:22
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«B␤»
masak m: role A {}; role B is A {}; multi foo(A) { say "A" }; multi foo(B) { say "B" }; foo(B.new)
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'foo'; these signatures all match:␤:(A)␤:(B)␤ in sub foo at /tmp/wV8QRUJXF6:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/wV8QRUJXF6:1␤␤»
masak oh, maybe that makes sense. 15:23
"is" on a role means something like "compose at the last minute".
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tadzik I just noticed that Supply.act is pretty much what Steroid's event system is doing 15:26
yoleaux 7 Dec 2014 01:37Z <raydiak> tadzik: sent you a PR for panda, s:g/path/IO/
tadzik raydiak: oh, thanks :) Will look at it later today
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psch hi #perl6 \o 15:28
yakudza \o 15:29
hoelzro jnthn: sounds good, thanks! 15:30
yoleaux 10:01Z <jnthn> hoelzro: I'd suggesting giving make_where_block a third optional argument, which defaults to QAST::Var.new( :name('$_'), :scope('lexical') ), and then pass in the QAST tree to make it do $_.signature where you are calling it.
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perltricks hey y'all is there a way to capture stderr from qx//? 15:41
lizmat good *, #perl6! 15:46
did pl6anet.org fall out of DNS ?
moritz I get connection resets from the DNS servers 15:49
pyrimidine Anyone else seeing NativeCall test fails on OS X? 15:54
gist.github.com/cjfields/bd7682e80c679eb1a49c
lizmat sees many tests flapping on OS X, period :-( 15:55
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pyrimidine lizmat: :( indeed 15:59
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El_Che spend the day configuring a nice perl5 soft that really could use p6 threading :). The soft is single threaded on a single cpu. Making it scale takes some work. Happy it works :) 16:09
brrt is still looking for a way to run a recent darwin on virtualbxo
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brrt virtualbox 16:09
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psch is there a different name for the colonpair on a used module's name without a space in contrast to with? 16:11
i.e. "use Foo :<Bar>;" vs "use Foo:from<java>;"
i'd happily call the left one an adverb, but not the right one
Ulti pyrimidine: yes 16:12
psch ah, S11 calls it an adverb as well 16:13
Ulti the same error here on OSX 10.9.5
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psch that does seem somehow lacking to me, but i guess it's the space or lack of space which changes whether we're changing what's used vs how we use 16:13
pyrimidine Ulti: was planning on an initial run at NativeCall implementation of htslib/samtools when I have time. Kinda puts a kink in that :P 16:14
Ulti :[
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Ulti yeah I was going to try and get SQUID bindings as a demo, but I think your plan is more useful 16:15
pyrimidine squid would be nice and probably simpler 16:16
Ulti erk it fails even more on Linux for me 16:17
this is with Rakudo-m from today
might be a better plan to use an actual release I guess 16:18
brrt hasn't seen great linux-related failures yet
but i haven't checked today either
nickpatch howdy all! 16:20
i made a new p6 module Geo::Region: github.com/patch/geo-region-pm6
masak nickpatch! \o/
nickpatch: add it to the ecosystem?
nickpatch masak: already done!
ported it from p5, so i would love any feedback on the code or api in regards to p6ishness 16:21
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lizmat nickpatch: the only thing that seemed a bit non-optimal, are the "contains" and "is_within methods 16:25
(also is-within maybe?)
seems like an awful lot of work to be done to get a boolean
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digitalw00t ? 16:25
lizmat otoh, it's only done once, right?
digitalw00t Morning
lizmat digitalw00t /o
Ulti nickpatch the long list of constants could maybe be an enum 16:28
colomon nickpatch: I've been fighting with Unicode (for $work rather than p6) since Thursday. And as long as you're here: utf16 in wchar_t on Linux: Wrong or Very Very Wrong? 16:29
Ulti nickpatch: perlcabal.org/syn/S12.html#Composit...from_Pairs
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TimToady STD calls foo:bar<baz> a longname 16:30
Ulti that way you have typeness and you dont pollute the namespace of someone using the module and you get helper methods like .invert
dalek kudo/newio: 6b53d38 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo/Local/Installation.pm:
fix last .IO.path.basename leftover
 16:31
kudo/newio: 4a9ebae | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/core/CompUnitRepo.pm:
fix CompUnitRepo.files

When asking for an installed file (i.e. a script) then we basically ask for a filename, and optionally for distname/auth/version. In contrast to asking for packages where we tend to ask for packagename, and optionally for a filename/auth/version.
kudo/newio: 8a9791d | moritz++ | Configure.pl:
Configure: warning on missing --prefix option

requested for star in rakudo/star#40, and added here for consistency
kudo/newio: dfcf9fc | moritz++ | src/core/Exception.pm:
Preserve warning message "0"
kudo/newio: bef54c7 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | / (4 files):
Merge branch 'nom' into newio
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psch TimToady: i'll call the parameter to use a "longname consisting of the module name and a colonpair" then, thanks 16:32
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colomon nickpatch++ # making patches to Geo::Region as I'm reading the source. :) 16:35
nickpatch lizmat: is_within is now is-within
colomon: yay! :D 16:36
lizmat: and what do you think in non-optimal? suggestions otherwise? 16:37
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nickpatch Ulti: i'll look into p6 enums. ty 16:38
raydiak gmorn #perl6 16:40
masak good antipodal morning, raydiak :)
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nickpatch colomon: i'm such not a C programmer that i won't be much help with wchar_t 16:42
raydiak heh good diametric evening, masak \o
NotJack is there a deeper writeup somewhere on what "native shaped arrays" are? 16:44
for mortals, I mean
PerlJam NotJack: Ever used PDL in P5? 16:45
NotJack nope
colomon nickpatch: ok. I will continue to consider it Wrong but not actually flame the programmers responsible. ;)
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TimToady S09 is the best we have on native shaped arrays, so far 16:46
NotJack thanks, I'll go refresh on that 16:47
TimToady but since they're not implemented yet, most everything there is subject to change
NotJack TimToady: Yeah, the reason I ask is because they're called out specifically as one of the last TODOs for a p6 launch
TimToady though the design does seem largely implementable
NotJack also, because I'm interested in anything novel p6 has to offer in the way of arrays and collection processing 16:48
TimToady jnthn is working on the underpinnings of that
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NotJack is prefix<||> a thing yet? 16:54
that looks neat
p6: say 'hi'; 16:55
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} dfcf9f: OUTPUT«hi␤»
NotJack p6: @shape = 4, 2; say ||@shape;
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} dfcf9f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Variable '@shape' is not declared␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> @shape⏏ = 4, 2; say ||@shape;␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
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NotJack p6: my @ints[4;2]; my @shape = 4,2; say @ints[||@shape]; 16:56
camelia rakudo-{parrot,moar} dfcf9f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Shaped variable declarations not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤at /tmp/tmpfile:1␤------> my @ints[4;2]⏏; my @shape = 4,2; say @ints[||@shape];␤»
NotJack wait, wait, "shaped arrays" means "arrays of a fixed size"?
ah, that clears it up then
PerlJam well, "shaped" also means "smooth or bumpy" to me. 16:57
(sparse arrays, arrays that are indexed on non-integer things, etc.) 16:58
NotJack Ok, I get it now.
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NotJack Do non-fixed-sized multidim arrays exist? 17:17
NotJack should go back and read the perl6 book
moritz NotJack: yes, but rakudo's support for them is very thin 17:20
TimToady basically, only multidimensional subscripts are supported currently, but they only work on arrays of arrays and such 17:22
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pmurias one hard problem I have in nqp-js, is how to compile subs that can be called before their surrounding scope come into existance. 17:27
example: XYZ::foo(); module XYZ { my $x; our sub foo() {...} } 17:28
TimToady make a stub that says "I don't exist yet!" ? 17:29
kurahaupo isn't the real problem the initialization of $z in pmurias' example? 17:30
$x I mean 17:31
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pmurias with ... being for example '$x := 123' 17:31
TimToady the call doesn't and shouldn't know what foo cares about later
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TimToady it just needs to fail gracefully until there really is a foo 17:31
moritz pmurias: compile to a lookup by name(s) 17:32
TimToady that also works, but might run slower
kurahaupo the same problem exists in p5 of course. it'd be nice to solve it
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TimToady m: XYZ::foo(); module XYZ { my $x = 21; our sub foo() { say $x * 2 } } 17:34
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context in sub foo at /tmp/kBr9FfxGLt:1␤␤0␤»
TimToady ah, module isnt' initialized yet
m: XYZ::foo(); module XYZ { our $x = 21; our sub foo() { say $x * 2 } } 17:36
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«use of uninitialized value of type Any in numeric context in sub foo at /tmp/HpOyvbwrzs:1␤␤0␤»
TimToady now that one's incorrect, since it should initialize $x at INIT time
probably a known rakudo bug
m: XYZ::foo(); module XYZ { constant $x = 21; our sub foo() { say $x * 2 } }
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«42␤»
TimToady yes, our is initializing too late
if someone wants to doublecheck that we're testing for that, that'd be LHF 17:38
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TimToady to check, not to fix :) 17:38
moritz what exactly is initialized at INIT time? all our-scoped vars? 17:40
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kurahaupo so ... initializations won't be able to call yet-to-be-defined subs? 17:43
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mathw Sorry to barge in, but how do I read a single character from the console? 17:44
or rather, from stdin
kurahaupo oh, wait
INIT, not BEGIN 17:45
moritz mathw: $*IN.getc
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pmurias TimToady: re fail gracefully, so is it safe for subs that depend on variable from scope that don't exist yet to fail gracefully? 17:45
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kurahaupo makes note to self: actually *drink* wakeup coffee before chatting on irc 17:46
mathw moritz: thanks!
pmurias TimToady: for example stuff like XYZ::foo(); for @foo -> $x { my $z = $x+1; module XYZ { our sub foo {$z = 7;say $z;}} 17:47
m: XYZ::foo(); for 1,2 -> $x { my $z = $x+1; module XYZ { our sub foo {$z = 7;say $z;}}} 17:48
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«7␤»
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pmurias moritz: if I need to support things like that, the best solution I have found (and used in the previous nqp-js) is to compile the subs twice 17:51
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nickpatch Ulti: how does this look? github.com/patch/geo-region-pm6/compare/enum 18:01
not sure if i did the organization and naming the most p6ish or not 18:02
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TimToady if Region is exported, you shouldn't need to qualify with Region:: after the enum is imported 18:06
(unless there's an enum collision somewhere)
nickpatch TimToady: i would like that but it didn't work 18:07
TimToady mebbe it's a bug 18:08
m: module Foo { enum Bar is export <a b c> }; import Foo; say b 18:09
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/8rz6t_Q8Yo␤Undeclared routine:␤ b used at line 1␤␤»
TimToady yeah, bug
m: module Foo { enum Bar is export <a b c> }; import Foo; say Foo::b
camelia rakudo-moar dfcf9f: OUTPUT«b␤»
mathw "Slurpy positionals with type constraints are not supported." aaaw :(
TimToady it's impossible to guarantee the type of a lazy list at bind time unless we have manifest list types on the list being passed, which we don't currently 18:12
we are not Haskell :)
(currently :)
mathw well, can't have everything 18:13
I was getting a little carried away perhaps
TimToady we still have some difficulty implementing time travel, for some reason :)
we could conceivably wrap the list iterator with a lazy type check, but that'll generally be redundant with something in your routine anyway, and just slow things down 18:15
and only blow up just before the routine would anyway
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TimToady so when we do enable slurpy types, it will probably be to require arguments that can be known at compile time to be of that type 18:17
mathw yes probably best to let the existing run-time type failure code catch it rahter than adding more
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TimToady but that means inferring types through .list calls, likely 18:17
and type inference is probably post-6.0, if we ever decide to do it 18:18
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TimToady the basic problem with type inference is that it tends to require your user to be as smart as your compiler 18:19
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TimToady especially if your compiler is stupid about error messages, and just says "That can't possibly work." without saying why 18:20
mathw my problem with languages that do have type inference (other than stupid error messages) is when people then say "isn't this cool! We never need to mention types at all!" without realising apparently that from time to time it is good if your code does actually say what type things are expected to be 18:21
TimToady or if does explain it, but the explanation requires a graduate degree in mathematics
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TimToady yes, there's that failure mode as well 18:22
so I'm guess we'd enable it technically, but try not to overdo it culturally
*guessing
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TimToady sort of like with extensibility, we provide all the tools, then given them a language they mostly won't want to extend :) 18:23
*give 18:24
mathw well these library authors always want to extend things...
TimToady can't type toady...
don't they just
mathw extensibility is great, it's an admission also that you don't know everything today
so you give people tools to help add some of the things they know they need next week
a lack of extensibility being a major failing of many languages 18:25
IMO anyway