»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
00:10 tinyblak joined
raydiak good afternoon, #perl6 00:11
vendethiel o/ raydiak 00:13
raydiak \o vendethiel; working on anything interesting? 00:14
vendethiel raydiak: not really, no, I was playing games with friends :P
raydiak what game? I ought to try one again some time... 00:15
vendethiel raydiak: borderlands 2 :) 00:18
raydiak realizes his age as he has no idea what borderlands is, and goes to read :) 00:19
00:19 TEttinger left 00:20 mohij joined 00:22 rurban left 00:23 mohij_ left
raydiak neat, I think my laptop might even handle it once I clean out the fan again (scorching summer here, setting records for my city) 00:24
haven't been very active here lately myself, got some work painting a house for a few weeks, so spending part of a day off checking to see if all my modules still work on latest rakudo and so forth 00:29
00:35 amurf joined
ugexe m: my $path1; my $path2 = ''; say $path1.?IO.is-absolute; say $path2.?IO.is-absolute; # could it be more useful if $path2.?IO did not die? 00:36
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«Nil␤Must specify something as a path: did you mean '.' for the current directory?␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/7i2MBik27k:1␤␤»
cognominal ...travelling to see the World.nqp instead of sleeping 00:42
raydiak ugexe: that die for '' is something lizmat++ put in after one of my projects rm -rf'd itself due to a GLR change...so I'd argue that it'd be better if $path1 *did* die :) 00:43
ugexe i dont want to actually do anything. i want to check if a path is absolute, but not being able to check "" doesnt seem correct 00:47
00:47 tinyblak left
ugexe or a better way than saying !$path || $path.IO.is-absolute ?? $path !! $path.IO.abspath 00:49
vendethiel raydiak: well, I did manage to get a few more compile-time NULLRepr 00:55
01:00 BenGoldberg joined 01:01 laouji joined 01:04 tinyblak joined 01:05 dayangkun left 01:15 Hor|zon joined 01:16 rmgk_ joined, rmgk is now known as Guest36324, rmgk_ is now known as rmgk 01:20 Guest36324 left, Hor|zon left 01:26 vendethiel left
raydiak ugexe: myself, I'd rather that any attempt to treat an empty string or undefined value as a path died immediately...if I'm seeing any of those things where I should see a path string, something has probably gone wrong upstream 01:29
though I can see an argument for wanting to treat it as the current directory (which is how my project self-destructed) 01:30
but I wouldn't be in favor of it working for certain operations (like .is-relative), but not others
01:39 amurf left 01:46 yeahnoob joined 01:56 TEttinger joined 02:09 yeahnoob left 02:13 noganex_ joined 02:14 aborazmeh joined, aborazmeh left, aborazmeh joined 02:15 noganex left 02:17 atroxaper joined 02:21 atroxaper left 02:23 dayangkun joined 02:24 dayangkun left 02:25 laouji left, dayangkun joined, dayangkun left, dayangkun joined, dayangkun left 02:28 dayangkun joined 02:35 yeahnoob joined 02:37 laouji joined 02:48 colomon left, vendethiel joined
ugexe in this case the string is going to get absolute-ified one way or another, which involves $*CWD during the $*SPEC. methods (since a string cant carry its $*CWD around with it) 02:50
02:50 colomon joined 03:04 Hor|zon joined 03:09 Hor|zon left 03:11 telex left 03:12 telex joined 03:14 xinming joined 03:22 xinming left, xinming joined 03:23 amurf joined 03:25 colomon left 03:28 amurf left 03:29 colomon joined 03:31 BenGoldberg left 03:39 colomon left 03:40 colomon joined 03:45 tinyblak left, laouji left 03:47 colomon left, nys left 03:51 amurf joined 03:55 molaf_ left 03:56 amurf left 03:59 kaare_ joined 04:03 vendethiel left 04:04 kaare__ joined 04:07 kaare_ left 04:53 atroxaper joined, Hor|zon joined 04:55 aborazmeh left 04:57 khw left 04:58 Hor|zon left, tinyblak joined 05:05 skids left 05:08 tinyblak left 05:20 baest_ is now known as baest 05:22 vendethiel joined 05:38 [Sno] left 05:43 raiph left 05:45 vendethiel left 05:59 araujo_ left 06:01 araujo joined, araujo left, araujo joined 06:04 rurban joined 06:09 dalek left, dalek joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v dalek 06:11 xinming left 06:21 geekosaur left 06:23 geekosaur joined 06:27 vendethiel joined 06:33 espadrine_ joined 06:40 FROGGS joined 06:42 Hor|zon joined 06:44 atroxaper left 06:46 FROGGS left 06:47 Hor|zon left 06:49 tinyblak joined, vendethiel left 06:51 vendethiel joined 06:53 atroxaper joined 06:57 zakharyas joined 07:01 brrt joined 07:05 [Sno] joined 07:08 RabidGravy joined
brrt \o 07:09
cognominal brrt o/ 07:11
brrt good.. monday, i guess :-)
cognominal m: my token ws { \h* }; say qq|a\n| ~~ m:s/ a $ /; 07:12
｢a
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«｢a␤｣␤»
07:12 atroxaper left
cognominal m: my token ws { \h* }; say qq|a\n| ~~ m:s/ a \n /; 07:12
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«False␤»
cognominal I wonder why the second does not match 07:13
07:14 vendethiel left
moritz cognominal: because the whitespace before the \n in the regex already slurped up the newline in the string 07:14
TEttinger m: my token ws { \h* }; say qq|a\n| ~~ m:s/ a\n /;
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«｢a␤｣␤»
moritz wonders if the lexical ws is picked up 07:15
ShimmerFairy m: my token ws { <digit>* }; say qq|a3| ~~ m:s/a /; say qq|a3| ~~ m:s/a<digit>/
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«False␤｢a3｣␤ digit => ｢3｣␤»
ShimmerFairy m: my token ws { <digit>* }; say qq|a3| ~~ m:s/a /; say qq|a3| ~~ m:s/a<ws>/
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«False␤｢a3｣␤ ws => ｢3｣␤ digit => ｢3｣␤»
ShimmerFairy ^ lexical ws is not being picked up by :s whitespace
moritz m: grammar A { token ws { \h* }; token TOP { a \n } }; say A.parse("a\n")
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«｢a␤｣␤»
07:15 atroxaper joined 07:16 darutoko joined, vendethiel joined
moritz cognominal: ^^ works fine inside a grammar 07:16
cognominal ShimmerFairy diagnostic seems accurate. 07:17
07:17 xfix joined
masak good morning, #perl6! 07:18
cognominal I waited masak to wake up to file the bug :)
moritz isn't sure that's a bug
moritz isn't sure it's not a bug either 07:19
ShimmerFairy on the one hand, it does feel a bit inconsistent with how it works in grammars, on the other hand it feels like this is the kind of thing where you should be using grammars already. 07:20
I'm not sure if non-grammar regex/token/rule declarations should "attach" to whatever implicit grammar regexes pull from when not in grammars, overriding declarations and such. 07:23
cognominal github.com/perl6/specs/blame/maste...x.pod#L342
masak I'm too drowsy to backlog :) I'll leave that for later. 07:24
07:25 FROGGS joined
cognominal the given examples use m:s// so they are not grammars 07:25
could we blame the greeks for that too? 07:26
ShimmerFairy Said examples show how to _use_ sigspace, but I don't see any explicit example showing how to _change_ sigspace's behavior. 07:27
DrForr Heh. I just fixed handling of RE modifiers in Perl-Mogrify last night. (with the exception of /x :) ) 07:29
07:30 abraxxa joined 07:39 vendethiel left, nnms left 07:40 vendethiel joined
masak does Rakudo have something like Perl 5's `readlink`? 07:42
moritz masak: resolve, I think 07:43
IO::Path.resolve
07:43 Hor|zon joined
moritz m: say '/usr/bin/editor'.IO.resolve 07:44
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«"/usr/bin/editor".IO␤»
masak oh, nice. 07:46
japhb++ # implementation
moritz $ ./perl6-m -e ' say "/usr/bin/editor".IO.resolve'
"/usr/bin/vim.gtk".IO
07:48 Hor|zon left 07:54 Hor|zon joined 07:58 dakkar joined 07:59 dalek left 08:00 dalek joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v dalek 08:02 vendethiel left
[TuxCM] Inline::Perl5 broken: Merging GLOBAL symbols failed: duplicate definition of symbol HLL 08:04
DrForr Just as an aside I had good luck sending him a github issue as well :) 08:05
08:05 g4 joined, g4 left, g4 joined 08:24 vendethiel joined 08:30 espadrine_ left
[TuxCM] test 50000 46.251 46.162 08:47
test-t 50000 46.427 46.337
there has been time that it was 36!
09:06 verzz joined 09:11 brrt left 09:13 bin_005 joined 09:16 andreoss joined 09:20 brrt joined
kanl m: my @a = 1 .. 3; my @b = < a b c >; my @c = @a Z @b; for @c -> $a, $b { $a.say; $b.say; }; for @a Z @b -> $a, $b { $a.say; $b.say; } 09:22
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«1␤a␤2␤b␤3␤c␤1 a␤2 b␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/TW7_7hQB4q:1␤␤»
kanl m: my @a = 1 .. 2; my @b = < a b >; my @c = @a Z @b; for @c -> $a, $b { $a.say; $b.say; }; for @a Z @b -> $a, $b { $a.say; $b.say; }
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«1␤a␤2␤b␤1 a␤2 b␤»
kanl so Z seems to be buggy with odd sized lists 09:23
masak nope. 09:24
kanl masak: care to elaborate on that "nope"? :) 09:25
vendethiel what's buggy here?
kanl am i misunderstanding the usage of Z then? 09:26
vendethiel flattening, I think
m: my @a = 1 .. 3; my @b = < a b c >; for @a Z @b -> ($a, $b) { $a.say; $b.say; }
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«1␤a␤2␤b␤3␤c␤»
vendethiel kanl: for @a Z @b -> $a, $b {} will have $a = @a[0], @b[0] 09:27
and $b be @a[1], @b[1] (<- this comma is the lsit one)
kanl vendethiel: ic. so @c = @a Z @b flattened? 09:28
vendethiel kanl: yes, list assignment flattens :) 09:29
kanl got it, thanks!
ShimmerFairy But if list assignment flattens, then how come: 09:30
m: my @a = [0,1], [2,3]; my @b = @a[0]; say @b.perl;
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«[[0, 1]]<>␤»
vendethiel ShimmerFairy: [] is an itemized list (currently) 09:31
GLR will (most probably) change this
ShimmerFairy That is the first time I have ever heard of [] being that. 09:32
vendethiel m: for 1, [2, 3, 4], (5, 6) -> $a { say "hey $a" };
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«hey 1␤hey 2 3 4␤hey 5 6␤»
vendethiel m: my @a = 1, [2, 3, 4], (5, 6); for @a -> $a { say "hey $a" }; 09:33
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«hey 1␤hey 2 3 4␤hey 5␤hey 6␤»
kanl so then when is GLR happening? wouldn't it break tons of existing code?
vendethiel it probably will, yes 09:34
ShimmerFairy I haven't seen an explicit description of GLR yet, but I'm _hoping_ it'll make lists sane in Perl 6.
vendethiel much the same
there's one draft, though
DrForr And just a few months before release :) 09:35
vendethiel ShimmerFairy: github.com/perl6/specs/blob/master...-draft.pod
DrForr: I'm ready to trade a bit of my time to fix my code for sanity
DrForr Oh, I am too, it's just the whole "just before release" bit. 09:36
ShimmerFairy Well, I can't say I've kept quiet about how dumb lists can be in Perl 6 over the years :P 09:37
09:37 vendethiel left
DrForr Just stability issues, and worried that it's going to go in just before YAPC::EU and potentially break demo code when we should be touting successes :) 09:39
09:42 brrt left 09:45 yeahnoob left, rindolf joined 09:46 Ven joined 09:51 andreoss left, espadrine_ joined, espadrine_ is now known as espadrine 09:59 bin_005 left, bin_005_i joined 10:04 tinyblak left, tinyblak joined 10:07 tinyblak left 10:09 brrt joined 10:15 vendethiel joined 10:20 xinming joined
kanl wouldn't it be nice to be able to @a Z -> [ $a, $b ] { } @b, directly? 10:21
otherwise have to overload an operator 10:22
or, -> $a, $b {}, post GLR 10:23
10:27 gfldex joined 10:31 dayangkun left 10:32 Ven left 10:33 virtualsue joined, pecastro left
dalek kudo/nom: 6967186 | (Nick Logan)++ | .travis.yml:
non-legacy travis-ci config

buildtime--		 10:36
kudo/nom: 533d1a9 | lizmat++ | .travis.yml:
Merge pull request #469 from ugexe/travis-nolegacy

non-legacy travis-ci config
10:44 TEttinger left
kanl m: my %h = a => 1; %h.push: a => 1; %h.say; 10:47
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«a => 1␤»
kanl doc.perl6.org/routine/push 10:48
my %h = a => 1; %h.push: b => 1; %h.say; 10:49
m: my %h = a => 1; %h.push: b => 1; %h.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 2e612a: OUTPUT«a => 1␤»
kanl so .push on hash no longer autovivify either? 10:50
moritz m: my %h = a => 1; %h.push: (b => 1); %h.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«a => 1, b => 1␤»
moritz kanl: it's the named vs. positional argument thingy again 10:51
ShimmerFairy m: my $a = a => 1; my %h = $a; say %h.perl; %h.push($a); say %h.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«{:a(1)}<>␤{:a([1, 1])}<>␤»
ShimmerFairy That example in the docs assumes that implicit *%_ doesn't exist (and it shouldn't)
kanl moritz: got it. thanks! i seem to keep falling over the same spot :p 10:53
nine [TuxCM]: cannot reproduce an Inline::Perl5 failure here 10:55
[TuxCM] will retry 10:58
10:58 verzz left
kanl m: my @a = < a b c >; my %h = a => 1; @a.map: { %h.push: $_ => 1 }; %h.say; 11:01
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«a => 1 1, b => 1, c => 1␤»
kanl so in $_ is not treated as named in this case? 11:02
lizmat m: my @a = < a b c >; my %h = a => 1; @a.map: { %h.push: $_ => 1 }; %h.perl.say 11:03
yoleaux 12 Jul 2015 22:49Z <japhb> lizmat: I was referring to the fact that perl6's command line options don't seem to affect the REPL (or at least, not all of them). In my particular class, -I wasn't affecting @*INC in the REPL, and ugexe seemed to indicate --ll-exception was problematic as well.
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«{:a([1, 1]), :b(1), :c(1)}<>␤»
lizmat kanl: I'm not sure what you expected? Seems to work as planned to me
kanl further back, my %h = a => 1; %h.push: b => 1; %h.say; 11:04
[TuxCM] nine, still got it
ShimmerFairy The question is why %thing.push(a => 1) goes to *%_ but %thing($_ => 1) doesn't.
[TuxCM] prepares gist (waiting for test to finish) 11:05
nine [TuxCM]: I do see random test failures running make test in a loop. But they're very infrequent :/ And they are all of the "No subtests run" kind 11:07
kanl lizmat: things like this confuse a newbie like me. because it _seems_ to be inconsistent, when actually there are actually sound reasons behind the seemingly inconsistency.
[TuxCM] but you run locally, not from an installed Inline::Perl5
11:08 tinyblak joined
lizmat kanl: yeah, I see what you mean, but I'm on record not to rant about that anymore 11:08
kanl i'll shut up :)
ShimmerFairy would argue the extent to which implicit *%_ is a sound reason :P 11:09
[TuxCM] gist.github.com/Tux/2a769f16bd5505be78b6
lizmat kanl: please don't 11:10
you strengthen my point
it's just that if you feel as strongly about it as I do, you should let yourself be heard 11:11
nine I see the same errors locally and with the installed Inline::Perl5. But not your's. Though considering the randomness of my failures, it looks like some memory corruption. Like the heisenbug I tracked a couple of months ago that turned out to be a GC bug in NativeCall
ShimmerFairy lizmat: oh, are you talking about that time you argued against the conflation of pairs and named parameters? If so, this is definitely a case where I'm left wondering why it's like this. 11:12
lizmat there's nothing more *I* can say about it
ShimmerFairy: indeed
ShimmerFairy m: sub foo(:$bar) { say $bar }; my $baz = "bar"; foo(bar => "Hello!"); foo($baz => "World!") 11:13
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«Hello!␤Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1␤ in sub foo at /tmp/oFlm1yBicd:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/oFlm1yBicd:1␤␤»
ShimmerFairy I've never encountered this before, but it feels very, very wrong. 11:14
FROGGS jnthn: ping 11:15
kanl lizmat: from a user adoption pov, these so-called inconsistencies may be offputting to people and turn some of them away, just saying. but speaking for myself, i'm not that easily frustrated/discouraged :)
ShimmerFairy Those two calls should definitely be consistent, though how so is another point :)
11:15 tinyblak left
FROGGS jnthn: what does a for loop return in statement level? this here? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...er.pm#L201 11:16
lizmat kanl ShimmerFairy : teaching and user adoption are the most important reasons to separate :a(42) and a => 42 in meaning 11:17
especially since you cannot use a => 42 as an adverb in @a[42]:exists and the like 11:18
kanl *nod*
lizmat so newbies are first taught to use :a(42) notation for slices and the like
and then learn they can also use a => 42 for custom code to indicate a named parameter 11:19
but not for slices
ShimmerFairy lizmat: I'm on board with not mixing pairs and named params. I've actually thought about it before, but never complained about it much (if at all). They're such different things, I wonder why they deserve to share syntax, and in a not-always-clear fashion to boot.
11:19 rurban left
kanl as a user with some p5 experience, i'd have to agree with ShimmerFairy on that 11:20
ShimmerFairy lizmat: And I mentioned a few days ago how my mind sees a => 42 as a Pair-ish thing, and :a(42) as a named param-ish thing. I'm not too likely to write foo(a => 42) , and I definitely wouldn't write %h = :a(42) 11:21
kanl old p5 habbits can be quite harmful
11:22 atroxaper left
tadzik 25 years from now we'll still be afraid to use $a and $b so we don't break sort 11:25
it'll be like with goto. "Ancients told us to never use goto!" "But it was completely different back then!" "LOL, doesn't matter, stay away from it anyway!" 11:26
(yes, I'm pretty sure prefix:<LOL> will still be around in 25 years)
(maybe for the same reason)
ShimmerFairy What's this about breaking sort?
lizmat $a and $b have a special meaning in P5 wrt to sort 11:31
11:31 bjz joined
ShimmerFairy Ah, that explains why I don't know about it :) 11:31
lizmat in p5 one can say sort @a, { $a cmp $b } where $a and $b would be the two parameters to the code block 11:32
similar to P6's { $^a cmp $^b }
except in P5 they are fixed to the names "$a" and "$b" 11:33
hence you can use $a and $b anywhere in P5 code without defining them, even with "use strict"
so they're really pretty magical
in P5
itz__ is compiling to mbc on OS X several times slower than a couple of days ago or is it me? 11:35
11:35 itz__ is now known as itz
lizmat itz: not sure, could be 11:36
11:36 FROGGS left
itz I'll nuke .rakudobrew just in case 11:37
11:42 tinyblak joined 11:52 pecastro joined 11:56 kurahaupo left 12:02 bin_005_i left
itz hmm it seems to affect certain modules only 12:10
jnthn afternoon, #perl6 12:17
yoleaux 11 Jul 2015 21:02Z <japhb> jnthn: What are your thoughts on irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-07-11#i_10881267 and irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-07-11#i_10881334 ? Having no good resolution kinda gets in the way of a nice refactoring (for now, I'm copying the required private methods into each role that would want to consume them, and then changing the names to not collide between the roles which is ... blech.)
12 Jul 2015 20:46Z <FROGGS> jnthn: I think MVMExceptionBody needs an MVMObject *label, so the payload can be used for: LABEL.leave(42)
12:17 rurban joined
jnthn .tell japhb I think the one at irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-07-11#i_10881271 should indeed DWYM; feel free to file a ticket on that 12:19
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to japhb.
12:22 atroxaper joined
lizmat tries to catch some more sleep 12:25
12:26 rindolf left 12:27 atroxaper left
arnsholt jnthn: How accessible is the multi-dim stuff from Perl 6 currently? I've got an idea which might be a good fit for giving it a real-worldish spin 12:28
timotimo o/
jnthn arnsholt: It ain't yet, but I intend for it to be later this week.
arnsholt Spiffy! I'll keep an eye out for it =) 12:29
12:32 yakudza joined 12:35 itz is now known as _itz, itz joined
RabidGravy remember kids, doing "sub trait_mod:<is> .... " without a multi will get you really confused ... 12:38
well the symptons are somewhat confusing to me anyway
12:42 FROGGS joined
FROGGS $ perl6 -e 'say (FOO: for ^3 { FOO.leave(123); say "alive" }); say "ho!"' 12:43
123
ho!
masak: ^^
dunno how sane my implementation is though
jnthn: ^^
masak woo! \o/ 12:44
FROGGS, you nice person you!
FROGGS :D
jnthn FROGGS++ 12:45
FROGGS I'll push my stuff in a minute
jnthn Would be interested to see that stuf,f yes
*stuff
FROGGS jnthn: please review then :o)
12:51 telex left 12:52 aborazmeh joined, aborazmeh left, aborazmeh joined, telex joined 12:54 verzz joined 13:03 christovchristov joined 13:06 amurf joined 13:09 brrt left 13:10 amurf left
dalek p/leave: 10af152 | FROGGS++ | src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
map {get,set}label, and handle CONTROL_RETURN + label
 13:12
masak looks, too
13:14 raiph joined
masak so the handler name is called RETURN on the nqp level? even though it's a leave? 13:14
13:16 andreoss joined
andreoss with token { <line> ** 9 } what separator is assumed? 13:18
13:19 bjz left 13:20 bjz joined
dalek kudo/leave: 6744251 | FROGGS++ | src/core/ (2 files):
and handle CONTROL_RETURN + label in MapIter
 13:20
FROGGS masak / jnthn: I pushed all the things
13:20 lucasb joined
FROGGS masak: aye, CONTROL_RETURN already existed 13:21
andreoss: none
masak FROGGS: here my ignorance of the specifics is showing, but... 13:23
FROGGS masak: I just can tell that it works for the one-liner I posted, I'm not sure the implementation is sensible
13:23 kaare__ is now known as kaare_
masak FROGGS: ...it seems to me that a `return` and a `leave` might take you to different locations. how does that square with using CONTROL_RETURN for both? 13:23
oha isn't LEAVE a phaser executed before exiting? like a guard? why for 1..3 { FOO.leave(); say "alive" } doesn't print "alive" 3 times? 13:24
FROGGS return does not use CONTROL_RETURN AFAICS
it invokes a lexical &RETURN or so
oha is leave in this context different than the phaser
shouldn't be .last() ? 13:25
masak FROGGS: maybe make sure that the lexical &RETURN doesn't use CONTROL_RETURN...?
m: sub foo { sub return(|c) { say "nuh-uh!" }; return 42; say "alive" }; foo
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«nuh-uh!␤alive␤»
jnthn I don't think it uses it at the moment, but it maybe should eventually 13:26
dalek ast: 570c8cc | (Steve Mynott)++ | S32-io/spurt.t:
fix spurt on file handle deprecation
jnthn The history on this is that Parrot never got lexical exception handler lookup
But it had a different, and rather convenient, way to implement it
masak if there is a CONTROL_RETURN, but only &leave uses it, maybe rename it CONTROL_LEAVE? :P 13:27
jnthn And we've kinda carried that forward
Path of least resistance and all that
andreoss FROGGS: why does it work with \n and whitespaces between <line>?
FROGGS andreoss: maybe your token/rule line allows it?
andreoss i specified nothing about whitespaces 13:28
FROGGS andreoss: is line a rul?
andreoss some default rule is applied
FROGGS rule*
or is it a token? 13:29
andreoss rule
FROGGS see
andreoss with token it's actually the same
FROGGS a rule allows arbitrary whitespace at the end
hmm, should not be
13:31 colomon joined
andreoss sorry, i've been mistaken and changed rule to token only for TOP 13:32
13:36 andreoss left
dalek p: cd7a532 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/MultiDimArray (3 files):
Get multi-dim object arrays working on JVM.
 13:41
13:43 jaffa4 joined
jaffa4 hi 13:43
How would you copy a hash?
PerlJam jaffa4: my %hash = %other-hash; 13:44
jaffa4 as a reference?
and make it a reference?
my $h = %hash;
El_Che jercos: a reference is not a copy, but an alias (changes to the "copy" will change the original) 13:45
jaffa4 I would ike to have reference to a copy 13:46
geekosaur what
why do you need a reference? for the most part references are a perl5-ism 13:47
jaffa4 my %h2 = %h; my $r = %h2;
Is there an easier way?
geekosaur things you shouldn't need to do don;t generally come with easier ways 13:48
jnthn $(my % = %h) probably works
13:48 molaf joined
El_Che (lol this is the #perl6 tab, I thought I was in #perl) 13:49
jnthn Well, but {%h} does copy too :)
13:49 aborazmeh left
jnthn so my $r = {%h} or so 13:49
nine m: my %a = a => 1, b => 2; my $b = $(my % = %a); $b<b> = 1; say %a.perl; say $b.perl; 13:51
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«{:a(1), :b(2)}<>␤{:a(1), :b(1)}␤»
13:51 khw joined
[Coke] Note: the TPF grants committee is looking for grants to fund. Historically we haven't gotten many perl 6 grant requests. If someone has a good idea for a grant, don't let the fact that it's six instead of five stop you. 13:51
jaffa4 like what? 13:52
Coke
Coke, what is the url? 13:54
PerlJam jaffa4: news.perlfoundation.org/2015/07/cal...uly-1.html 13:55
jaffa4 jnthn: I getr postcircumfix:<{ }> not defined for type Bloc
jnthn: thanks for the other version, that works 13:59
christovchristov hey Im consideirng using perl for a webspider but concerned about performance vs using php.. does anyone have any performance info where I can read more?
PerlJam christovchristov: sounds like you want #perl rather than #perl6 14:00
14:01 colomon left
christovchristov ah. my bad. Ofcourse it was a more generic question :) cheers 14:01
PerlJam christovchristov: no worries
christovchristov: though, if I were you, I would do some profiling myself :) 14:02
14:04 colomon joined, itz left 14:06 n0tjack joined 14:07 colomon left
tadzik I'm continually surprised that Perl is one of the very few languages apparently that get stuff like gist.github.com/tadzik/80987d58011eeff3d96f right 14:09
TIL that C# and Go don't either
moritz christovchristov: in general, web spidering is IO (network) limited, not performance limit
tadzik I thought only Python is like that
moritz christovchristov: so you don't have to worry much about the performance of the implementation language
PerlJam moritz: #perl is enthusiastically telling him that. :) 14:10
moritz ok :-)
jnthn A language that lets you manage multiple concurrent requests easily is worth having for it, though :)
nine Which I guess would be pretty much any language except PHP
14:11 christovchristov left 14:13 skids joined
dalek p: 11dd464 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/MultiDimArray (10 files):
Support native/packed multi-dim arrays on JVM.
 14:15
14:18 g4 left
masak nine: but PHP has other nice/redeeming features, such as... ah... 14:21
...
arnsholt It's not BrainFuck, I guess? 14:24
jaffa4 I found some weird behaviour concerning and and && see codepaste.net/yier8s 14:25
Could anyone explain that?
nine But BrainFuck should be easily compilable to a very fast binary, shouldn't it?
arnsholt Not necessarily 14:26
14:26 lizmat left
arnsholt It can actually be harder to optimise very low-level stuff 14:27
masak jaffa4: before I opened that link, I went "oh, I bet jaffa4 got precedence wrong"
jaffa4: I was right :D
DrForr jaffa4: && and 'and' have differing precedence.
masak m: say True and False
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«True␤»
masak m: say (True and False)
camelia rakudo-moar 533d1a: OUTPUT«False␤»
masak jaffa4: ^
jaffa4: if you don't understand precedence, and the differing precedence between `&&` and `and`, I would heartily recommend not using `and` 14:28
14:28 VinceDee joined
masak jaffa4: it *has* a good use, but people who don't understand its precedence won't use it right. 14:28
14:29 colomon joined
jaffa4 masak: in the example, && gave bad result and, AND gave good one 14:29
DrForr jaffa4: && is binding tighter than you expected.
jaffa4 a change from Perl 5? 14:30
DrForr They're different languages, yes.
dalek p: 0da71d8 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/MultiDimArrayInstanceBase.java:
Good errors for size-changing ops.
 14:31
p: 0743f03 | jnthn++ | src/vm/jvm/runtime/org/perl6/nqp/sixmodel/reprs/MultiDimArrayInstanceBase.java:
Do rest of positional API in MultiDimArray on JVM.
jnthn Phew, 140 out of 188 tests. :)
jaffa4 masak: I assumed it stayed the same for Perl6, some things did not change 14:32
tadzik I think it's the same as in Perl 5, this particular thing
vendethiel tadzik: you'll be pleased to know C#5 fixes that :)
tadzik vendethiel: oh, I am :)
vendethiel: I'
vendethiel: I'm also sad to realize that Unity is not likely to adopt it any time soon :P
vendethiel tadzik: Unity uses a butchered version of C# already :) 14:33
tadzik yeah, I noticed :P
on ancient mono
*shudder*
vendethiel
.oO( "let's remove access modifiers, they look too confusing" )
RabidGravy I thought that 'and' was lower precedence than '&&' in perl 5 too
tadzik access modifiers?
masak jaffa4: it did stay the same. 14:34
jaffa4: Perl 5 has exactly the same distinction between `&&` and `and`. I suggest you learn it.
skids jnthn++ cruising along on native multidim... guess I'd better dust off the Keccak specs.
masak jaffa4: or, if you don't feel like learning it (which is fine), I suggest only using `&&`.
vendethiel tadzik: "public void X()" <- only "void X()" works in unity#
hoelzro o/ #perl6 14:35
lucasb Good monday to everyone. I can use .subst directly, but sometimes I felt like wanting to use s/// with .subst semantics, not .subst-mutate. Do you think there is room for an adverb that does that, just like P5's s///r ? (I know that :r is already taken for something else)
vendethiel lucasb: I asked about the same some time ago :P 14:36
tadzik vendethiel: nah, both work
skids Wasn't that S///?
jaffa4 masak: I used &&, that did not seem to work
vendethiel tadzik: really? there's something they changed wrt that, but I can't remember right now :). I only used unity for 2 weeks
tadzik I mean, I even think that the latter might not, if you expect it to be public
vendethiel: certain magic methods do that, yeah :D 14:37
like void Awake(), void Update() etc
those Unity fetches via reflection and stuff
jaffa4 masak: as in Perl 5
ShimmerFairy jaffa4: As I understand the code, you need parens around defined (stuff) , so (defined (stuff)) && morestuff
tadzik actually, not sure if they break if you make them public explicitely, but knowing Unity, they might :P
vendethiel tadzik: no, I was right. it doesn't work like that in c#.
tadzik: in unity#, no access modifier = public, not in c# 14:38
tadzik oh
huh
class attributes for example don't show up in the editor if they're not public
lucasb vendethiel: I must read the logs more often. :) What was the answer when you asked about this?
14:38 tinyblak left
tadzik I'd be surprised if it recognized private methods as public and callable then 14:38
14:39 lizmat joined
masak jaffa4: you're not 100% successful in providing golfed examples. this makes it harder to help you. 14:39
jaffa4: it also makes it harder for *you* to see what the problem is with your code, since it's still tangled with all these inessentials. 14:40
jaffa4: if you put whitespace between `defined` and the `(...)` thing, that means something different than `defined(...)`
jaffa4: *that* is the difference between Perl 5 and Perl 6 that's tripping you up.
lucasb skids: I tried S///, but I don't understand how it works
masak jaffa4: thanks to ShimmerFairy for putting me on the right track. I didn't see that before. 14:41
lucasb skids: I didn't know it existed :)
vendethiel tadzik: not sure. but all the methods you define for unity are declared with "public"