»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
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rangerprice Hi everyone 00:33
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colomon m: say List ~~ Positional 02:30
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«True␤»
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ShimmerFairy .tell jnthn I put japhb's code in val(), with minimum modification to make it work properly, and got marginal improvements (null program startup decreased by about .01s, profiling sorting line shows it went down ≈1.2s). It's of course better (so I'll keep it in ☺), but val()'s implementation seems to be a non-issue now 02:36
yoleaux ShimmerFairy: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
ShimmerFairy .tell jnthn I suspect having a version of val() in World.nqp, or perhaps even in NQP itself, for strings with compile_time_values would be the most helpful, considering how many constant strings in quotewords there are in CORE and such :) 02:39
yoleaux ShimmerFairy: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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jdv79 has never used :right 04:36
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dalek ast/allomorphs: 27cc5ac | ShimmerFairy++ | S32-str/numeric.t:
Improve testing functions in S32-str/numeric.t

The failure check now prints a .perl of the string it was given, so that the output makes sense (changing it from Q[+-3/-2] to Q[+"-3/-2"] , for example). The success check now uses 'is' instead of the weird use of 'ok' shown before, since 'is' works just fine.		 04:46
MadcapJake in Supply's `done` method, why does it call the result of `$t.done()` github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...ply.pm#L74 04:47
dalek kudo/allomorphs: 7d56f92 | ShimmerFairy++ | src/core/ (2 files):
Reinstate the string-to-number code by japhb++

It's a bit faster than my version, and it was the original implementation, so in it goes, in preference of me wasting time trying to optimize my version further (since such optimizations at this point would've been of the trickier, more subtle variety).
The biggest functional change to it, aside from making it work in val(), was disallowing 'Infi' and 'NaNi' as valid numbers. Other test failures as a result of this code concern things like if Rat fractions should allow negative denominators, so it's been left untouched for now.
Unfortunately, it seems that the particular implementation of val() is not the cause for the perceived slowdown anymore, so this replacement doesn't offer much improvement. The cause is likely the existence of a bunch of val() calls on quotewords in CORE existing now. Handling val() calls at compile time where possible might offer the best improvement at this point.		 04:50
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moritz ShimmerFairy: marking the val(|) proto as 'is pure' might help to promote some calls to compile time 05:28
ShimmerFairy moritz: oh, what does 'pure' mean? 05:29
nvm, found the doc :) 05:31
moritz for the record, it means "can be constant-folded" 05:40
MadcapJake anyone able to answer my question above? Just trying to understand why Supply's done method calls the result of `$t.done()`? I thought `done` was jut a supplied callback? 05:44
is it because `$l` could be a Lock? 05:46
no, that couldn't be it because `&.done` is just a callback, it's not something handled internally. 05:48
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MadcapJake It seems like both `done` and `emit` invoke themselves before proceding (emit procedes by invoking again with `msg` and done procedes by invoking if not nil). Is that accurate? I don't quite understand why that's necessary. 06:06
moritz I thought 'done' invoked the 'done' callback of the tap(s) 06:15
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MadcapJake yeah it does, i just am trying to follow the code: `for self.tappers -> $t {my $l = $t.done(); $l() if $l;}` 06:25
what does the `$l() if $l` mean? I don't follow why that's necessary. 06:26
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RabidGravy marning! 06:47
ShimmerFairy moritz: hm, adding a 'proto sub val(|) is pure {*}' seems to have made things worse. I'll try adding 'is pure' to just the single-value multi, though. (It does seem to have done stuff, at least, seeing as the optimize stage goes up about 10s with the addition ☺) 06:59
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ab5tract_ .tell MadcapJake that's because the return value of $tap.done() is the callback itself 07:21
yoleaux ab5tract_: I'll pass your message to MadcapJake.
ab5tract_ m: class Hap { has &.done }; my $f = Hap.new( done => { say "here we go"; 42 } ); my $b = $f.done(); $b.WHAT.say; $b().say 07:22
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«(Block)␤here we go␤42␤»
ab5tract_ .tell MadcapJake try this example: `class Hap { has &.done }; my $f = Hap.new( done => { say "here we go"; 42 } ); my $b = $f.done(); $b.WHAT.say; $b().say`
yoleaux ab5tract_: I'll pass your message to MadcapJake.
ab5tract_ .tell MadcapJake contrast that with replacing `my $b = $f.done()` with `my $b = &($f.done)()`. So the reason it is written this way is because the second option would be run time error if the tap did not define a done block 07:25
yoleaux ab5tract_: I'll pass your message to MadcapJake.
ab5tract_ *be a
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nine Good morning #perl6! 07:55
ab5tract_ morning, nine! 07:57
nine I've just slept for 10 1/2 hours...this feels strange ;)
ab5tract_ :) 08:00
nine: so does the GMR (Great Map Refactor?) plan to address the points raised by postcircumfix.com/2015-08-29-untang...-hierarchy 08:05
dalek ast/gmr: 434b189 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S (3 files):
Rename EnumMap to Map
 08:06
ast/gmr: a2d3e62 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S (7 files):
Merge Enum into Pair

This should reduce the confusion around enum, Enum an Enumeration. Pair now implements shallow immutability like List. Pairs themselves are immutable, but containers used as values can be assigned to.
nine ab5tract_: that blog post is exactly what I'm implementing 08:07
though half of it seems obsolete, as for example Hashes don't do Positional
ab5tract_ indeed 08:08
nine Note that it has not been decided, if we really want those changes. I'm just implementing them to see how much work it would be and what problems may arise. So far I like what I've seen. 08:09
ab5tract_ An exploratory branch :) 08:10
A Map for a potential voyage! (*baddum ching*) 08:11
ab5tract_ wanders to breakfast
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pmurias in which branch does the post glr rakudo live? 08:14
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ShimmerFairy pmurias: nom 08:17
lizmat commuting& 08:18
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ambs we can't make perl6 a little more intelligent? "min 1..*" takes forever to compute. 08:34
RabidGravy yes 08:39
m: multi sub min(Range $a) { $a.bounds[0] }; say min(1..*)
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«1␤»
ambs not really... then min 10..5 would not work :-) 08:40
it I understood it correctly 08:41
s/it/if/
RabidGravy ah yes
ambs but yeah, not something relevant right now
was just messing around with ranges and lazyness.
ShimmerFairy Yeah, if rakudo knew how to determine if a range was all-ascending or all-descending, then there are some nice shortcuts that could be implemented :) 08:42
RabidGravy m: multi sub min(Range $a) { min($a.bounds) }; say min(1..*); say min(10..5)'
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/qnrLbWOIpJ␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/qnrLbWOIpJ:1␤------> 3bounds) }; say min(1..*); say min(10..5)7⏏5'␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ s…»
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RabidGravy m: multi sub min(Range $a) { min($a.bounds) }; say min(1..*); say min(10..5);' 08:43
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/R2GRDS_HsY␤Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" ␤at /tmp/R2GRDS_HsY:1␤------> 3unds) }; say min(1..*); say min(10..5);'7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ sing…»
ambs RabidGravy: I see what you are trying to do there :-)
RabidGravy m: multi sub min(Range $a) { min($a.bounds) }; say min(1..*); say min(10..5)
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«Cannot call min(Parcel); none of these signatures match:␤ (Range $a)␤ in sub min at /tmp/xFCWE2y0tQ:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/xFCWE2y0tQ:1␤␤»
RabidGravy or something like that
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nine m: say (1,2).WHAT 08:53
08:54 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia
camelia rakudo-moar e6f360: OUTPUT«(Parcel)␤» 08:54
vendethiel camelia is pre-merge, IIRC 08:55
nine Yeah, trying to figure out how to fix that
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jdv79 grondilu: i would help if i understood Digest better. there's a bunch of syntax i'm not familiar with in there. 09:01
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RabidGravy right, off to the "White Isle" in a bit, see you all in two weeks. Don't break anything I wouldn't and play nicely 09:02
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nine Have fun :) 09:02
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RabidGravy always do :) 09:03
byeee
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pmurias the post glr semantics are described in S07-glr-draft.pod? 09:09
nine More or less. That document is not up to date. 09:10
pmurias S07-lists.pod is pre-glr?
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nine I don't think anyone has updated the specs yet. 09:11
pmurias that sucks badly :( 09:12
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nine m: say (1,2).WHAT 09:14
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
nine \o/
vendethiel \o/
nine I disabled build of the jvm backend for now.
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nine m: (:a(1) :b(2)).perl.say 09:44
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(:a(1), :b(2))␤»
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ShimmerFairy nine: I was thinking, could you and/or other people familiar with GLR put up a gist or something with bullet points on what's changed with having GLR (or at least the important bits of GLR), so it's easier for someone interested in updating the specs to do so? 09:58
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ShimmerFairy (I ask because I'm possibly interested in helping update S07 and related, but I'm not nearly familiar enough with GLR to write specs on it yet. A gist-like thing would just speed up that familiarization for someone like me ☺) 10:02
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leont How can I interpret a string as hex? 10:05
vendethiel m: say :16("CAFE"); # what was it?
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«51966␤»
ShimmerFairy Yeah, also available as :16<CAFE> or :16[12, 10, 15, 14] :) (though :16() will let you handle variables) 10:06
vendethiel m: my @a = 12, 10, 15, 14; say :16[|@a]; 10:08
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«51966␤»
vendethiel *g*
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hahainternet i'm not exactly likely to be helping out with GLR but i would appreciate the same as ShimmerFairy, a nice summary somewhere when someone has time 10:21
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leont Interestingly, :16("0o10") == 8 10:34
Is that intended or a bug? 10:35
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ShimmerFairy intended, :16() only sets a default radix, which can be overridden by the string 10:37
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cdc ShimmerFairy: don't you think :16("0o10") should be rejected? For instance, in the follozing scenario: $input = prompt("Enter hex"); $checked-input = :16($intput)" 10:54
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ShimmerFairy cdc: nope, the idea is that the string knows what it wants better than the surrounding conversion function. 10:55
It's been that way forever, so it's not my design decision in the first place :) . Nevertheless I agree with it.
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ShimmerFairy If you _really_ wanted to enforce hex, easiest way would be :16("0x" ~ $input) , which will die if the string ends up being "0x0o10" 10:56
hahainternet you'd want to do some sanitation on the input regardless 10:57
because 'z'
i'm half and half
it would be nice to know there were ways to be strict about formatting built in
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cdc well, I understand your point, but :16("0o10") == 8 looks so weird to me. 11:05
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hahainternet cdc: it does, but if you gave that octal a variable name it would make much more sense 11:08
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MadcapJake m: class Hap { has &.done }; my $f = Hap.new( done => { say "here we go"; 42 } ); my $b = $f.done(); my $c = $f.done; my $d = &($f.done); say $b === $c && $c === $d; 11:18
yoleaux 07:21Z <ab5tract_> MadcapJake: that's because the return value of $tap.done() is the callback itself
07:22Z <ab5tract_> MadcapJake: try this example: `class Hap { has &.done }; my $f = Hap.new( done => { say "here we go"; 42 } ); my $b = $f.done(); $b.WHAT.say; $b().say`
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«True␤»
yoleaux 07:25Z <ab5tract_> MadcapJake: contrast that with replacing `my $b = $f.done()` with `my $b = &($f.done)()`. So the reason it is written this way is because the second option would be run time error if the tap did not define a done block
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MadcapJake ab5tract: so in the case of assigning a method to a variable, there's no difference between `$f.done()` and `$f.done`? Both will just assign the variable to the given block. Is that correct? 11:33
ShimmerFairy both .done() and .done call a method 11:37
MadcapJake but if you do `my $b = $f.done` you don't call it, you just assign the block to $b
ShimmerFairy m: class C { method M { 42 } }; my $b = C.M; say $b.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«42␤»
MadcapJake m: class C { method M { 42 } }; my $b = C.M; say $b.WHAT.say 11:38
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(Int)␤True␤»
ShimmerFairy m: class C { method M { -> $a { say $a } } }; my $b = C.M; say $b.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-> $a { #`(Block|71367056) ... }␤»
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ShimmerFairy m: class C { has $.done }; my $obj = C.new(done => 42); say $obj.done.perl 11:39
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«42␤»
MadcapJake wait, what about when it's like this
ShimmerFairy m: class C { has $.done }; my $obj = C.new(done => { 42 }); say $obj.done.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-> ;; $_? is parcel { #`(Block|55982096) ... }␤»
MadcapJake yeah like that :P
timotimo that's how
ShimmerFairy when the "done" attribute is assigned a block, then calling the method returns that block :) 11:40
(the has $.done declaration creates 'method done' for you)
MadcapJake so it's not really a method, it's just a block? is that what i'm getting confused about?
ohhhhh
timotimo it's a method tthat returns a block
you'd call it an attribute instead of a method, probably
MadcapJake so when you instantiate the class, you're passing what the `done` method will return? 11:41
timotimo right, though of course the code in the class may re-assign to $!done or implement "method done" itself in a different way if it likes to
ShimmerFairy yeah, the 'done => { 42 }' part sets the value of the $!done attribute. The main difference between 'has $!done' and 'has $.done' is that you'll get a method done { $!done } made for you 11:42
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MadcapJake ok! I get it now! :) I was thinking that `has $.done` was just creating an empty "field". But really the `.` twigil means it's actually building an accessor/gette 11:43
timotimo that's right 11:44
MadcapJake awesome! Thanks so much for the explanation!
timotimo and if the . twigil gets combined with "is rw", the accessor will also allow assignment
ShimmerFairy MadcapJake: note that when you _use_ the attribute in your class' methods, $!foo is the actual variable, and $.foo is treated like $(self.foo) 11:45
MadcapJake ok cool, i read about `is rw` but it wasn't really making sense until now xD
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MadcapJake ShimmerFairy: but `$!foo` would only be available inside the class body, right? 11:48
ShimmerFairy yes
Use $!foo whenever you want to modify or otherwise use the attribute directly. $.foo is nice for letting subclasses define their own 'method foo' and getting that used 11:49
timotimo and $!foo is namespaced to the current class, so if you want to access a superclass' attribute "$!foo", you'll have to go a different way 11:52
ShimmerFairy m: class C { has $.bar; method foo { "This is a $.bar" } }; class D is C { method bar { "derived class" } }; say C.new(bar => 42).foo; say D.foo 11:53
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«This is a 42␤This is a derived class␤»
ShimmerFairy ^ example of what I was talking about with using $.foo
MadcapJake cool! Thanks ShimmerFairy & timotimo! It all fits now that I understand that darn twigil xD 12:07
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lizmat waves from 2500m up on the Sierra Nevada 12:20
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FROGGS .tell japhb I'm unable to merge C++ support in rakudo until it got ported to jvm... and I cannot port it as long as the jvm build is broken 12:29
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to japhb.
FROGGS TimToady / jnthn: I intend to bisect the setting this evening (by commenting stuff out), until the jvm build succeeds... if one of you have better ideas, please let me know 12:30
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lizmat .tell TimToady looks like brokenness of Vampire-number/vampire-number.pl6 is also a @a := Seq issue 12:41
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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[Tux] o/ 12:45
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_itz m: say (1,2).WHAT 12:49
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(List)␤»
_itz is jvm fixed?
TimToady nach nicht 12:50
yoleaux 12:41Z <lizmat> TimToady: looks like brokenness of Vampire-number/vampire-number.pl6 is also a @a := Seq issue
moritz but that's a current rakudo 12:51
on camelia
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timotimo is still a bit sad about the re-naming of the Cheese Shop to PyPI 12:54
ShimmerFairy moritz: JVM build has been disabled on camelia for the time being
moritz :sadface: 12:56
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lichtkind cheers i saw parcel is gone 14:03
where can i read mor on that? 14:04
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nine FROGGS[mobile]: do you have any idea, why after adding a multi method new($key, Mu \value) to Pair.pm I still get a "Default constructor for 'Pair' only takes named arguments" but only for this weird :a(1) b(2) case (without comma) 14:05
FROGGS[mobile]: I also removed $key.named('key'); and $value.named('value'); from make_pair in Actions.nqp 14:06
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nine lichtkind: it's not yet documented 14:13
lichtkind nad whats main idea, that list can contain named vals ? 14:14
nine ?
lichtkind the amin idea between parcels was that they are not decided if they become list or hashes 14:17
what makes them dispensable 14:18
masak m: sub s($x) { $x ?? $x < 0 ?? -1 !! 1 !! 0 }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN 14:21
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-1␤0␤1␤1␤»
masak m: sub s($x) { $x / abs $x }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN 14:22
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-1␤Attempt to divide by zero using div␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/h1bOsgu6S9:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/h1bOsgu6S9:1␤␤»
masak (some wrong implementations of the 'sign' function I've found on Github so far)
m: sub s($x is copy) { !($x = +$x) ? $x : $x > 0 ? 1 : -1 }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN 14:23
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/as7bLcyhYe␤Unsupported use of ? and : for the ternary conditional operator; in Perl 6 please use ?? and !!␤at /tmp/as7bLcyhYe:1␤------> 3sub s($x is copy) { !($x = +$x) ?7⏏5 $x : $x > 0 ? 1 : -1 }; s…»
masak m: sub s($x is copy) { !($x = +$x) ?? $x !! $x > 0 ?? 1 !! -1 }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN 14:24
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-1␤0␤1␤-1␤»
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nine lichtkind: you mean Captures 14:24
lichtkind im pretty sure i mean parcel but i will recheck 14:25
masak m: sub s($x) { if $x > 0 { return 1 }; return -1 }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-1␤-1␤1␤-1␤»
masak I'm thinking of writing a blog post follow-up about how virtually everybody who tries to implement/polyfill Math.sign is also too inexperienced to get it right. 14:26
but now that I'm looking around, I'm not sure I'll be able to research it enough without becoming too depressed about what I find. 14:27
m: sub s($x) { $x < 0 ?? -1 !! 1 }; return -1 }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/QwvRM1MH6W␤Unexpected closing bracket␤at /tmp/QwvRM1MH6W:1␤------> 3 s($x) { $x < 0 ?? -1 !! 1 }; return -1 7⏏5}; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN␤»
masak m: sub s($x) { $x < 0 ?? -1 !! 1 }; say s($_) for -42, 0, 42, NaN
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«-1␤1␤1␤1␤»
lichtkind nine: your right but i thought it was the other way around for long time 14:28
masak there's definitely a blog post's worth in there, though.
mst lichtkind: I always suspected you were a little bit backwards 14:29
(sorry :)
lichtkind sometimes i am
_itz lichtkind++ # good .es art gallery tips :)
lichtkind thanks 14:30
yes leaving granada tomorrow
ShimmerFairy m: sub sign($n) { $n ?? $n / $n.abs !! 0 }; say (-42, 0, 42, NaN)».&sign # masak: this is my version :)
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(-1 0 1 NaN)␤»
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Begi Hey #perl6 ! I'm new to Perl6. I've code a little Reverse Polish notation calculator. Can you tell me what can I improve ? gist.github.com/Emeric54/b94d607aca841df8f2d8 14:33
Juerd Begi: That's nice! 14:34
In general, in any programming language, I think things become harder to read if you have many nested constructs and high indentation levels. It's a good reason to refactor things into subroutines. 14:35
That'll force you to think about how to share values. Explicit passing and returning is widely considered as the best solution, followed by hiding state in objects. 14:36
But for code this small it might be overkill :)
I'm not sure if "defined +$w" makes sense 14:37
vendethiel Juerd: that's to make sure .Int returned an Int :)
(at least that's what I'm guessing)
Juerd vendethiel: I don't understand. There's no .Int in the code.
vendethiel Juerd: there's a + 14:38
m: say +"foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '⏏foo' (indicated by ⏏)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/7VAhJ9Nxx4:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/7VAhJ9Nxx4:1␤␤»
vendethiel m: say defined +"foo"
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«False␤»
vendethiel the defined "traps" the failure :)
Begi Yes, I started with a subroutine, but I deleted it because the code was very small.
Juerd Oh wow, so +"foo" evaluates to an unthrown exception? 14:40
Which is then thrown if you use it where you can't?!
vendethiel Juerd: +"foo" evaluates to a Failure
Juerd I think I read about this, but this is the first time I understand it...
(I think) 14:41
vendethiel m: say (+"foo").WHAT.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«Failure␤»
vendethiel m: say (+"foo").Bool
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«False␤»
Juerd m: sub bar ($f :D) { }; bar(+"foo")
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤»
Juerd Slightly LTA. 14:42
Which object?!
vendethiel whoops. :-)
m: sub bar($f :D) {}; bar(1);
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤»
vendethiel m: sub bar($f:D) {}; bar(1);
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤»
vendethiel Juerd: you can't :D something that's not a type btw 14:43
m: sub bar($f:D) {};
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object (REPR: P6opaque, cs = 0)␤»
vendethiel Juerd: Any:D would work, fwiw
masak I just realized that NaN boolifies to True in Perl 6. have we ever thought about whether it should...? 14:44
(data point so far: it boolifies to false in JavaScript)
vendethiel has no idea, since he never writes code that takes NaN into account 14:45
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nine GLRR semantics in a gist: gist.github.com/niner/d5f825c07ce1f7a6f7bb 14:46
masak in a way, NaN (being a kind of numeric failure) feels falsy. 14:47
14:47 Begi left
nine At least what came to mind right now 14:47
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ShimmerFairy masak: I think the issue is that "not a number" is far too general for an easy answer 14:48
nine ShimmerFairy: gist.github.com/niner/d5f825c07ce1f7a6f7bb 14:49
ShimmerFairy thanks :)
nine I'll be happy to add clarifications and answer questions that this will raise.
ShimmerFairy Ah, so the $ protection was added then? Seems like the sanest option, considering how many problems not having something like it was causing :) 14:50
nine Added jnthn++'s clarifications about slurpies 14:52
masak ShimmerFairy: well, many languages do answer it by allowing NaN to be coerced, implicitly or explicitly, to a boolean value.
ShimmerFairy: I agree it's not an easy question. but there's certainly prior art.
ShimmerFairy masak: what I mean is the question of "is NaN truthy or falsy?"
masak and I'm wondering if there's any language out there besides Perl 6 that boolifies NaN to True.
ShimmerFairy nine: shouldn't 'is rw' be the one that leads to Array, if Lists are immutable? 14:53
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masak hm, Perl 5 does too, it seems. 14:53
$ perl -Mstrict -wE 'say !! +"NaN"'
1
Loren m: say (+"fgg").perl 14:54
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::Str::Numeric.new(source => "fgg", pos => 0, reason => "base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.'"), backtrace => Backtrace.new)␤»
ShimmerFairy masak: from a purely bit-pattern perspective, NaN does have some on bits :P
14:55 dakkar joined
dakkar why does IO::Path cache the "exists" bit? 14:56
my $f = '/tmp/thing'.IO; $f.spurt('something'); say $f.e; # prints False 14:57
nine ShimmerFairy: well the "is rw" allows you to assign to @foo. It doesn't say anything about @foo itself. But other than having slowly come to terms with this, I share your confusion.
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ShimmerFairy nine: Another possibility is perhaps "use Array for *@, since we've flattened already and might as well enforce scalar containers, and use List for **@ , since we're keeping structure and shouldn't enforce containerization on any part of it" 14:59
nine Well there's still lizmat++'s proposal to have **@arr expose the single arg semantics we use for all builtins.
bbkr Hi. I've published new blog post of how to deal with asynchronous parallel nested documents processing (and don't get crazy). Enjoy: blogs.perl.org/users/pawel_bbkr_pab...bread.html ! 15:00
ShimmerFairy nine: how would you enforce single-arg rule like the "for" keyword, currently?
nine ShimmerFairy: oh it's easy. It just involves some nqp... 15:02
ShimmerFairy nine: is that because of GLRR? I recall that being default earlier 15:03
(that is, I remember that you couldn't get rid of single-arg earlier on)
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nine The canonical way seems to be having a multi candidate that takes a \value and one for **@values. Then first one does an istype(Iterable) && !iscont check on value 15:07
ShimmerFairy It'd be nice if that were easier to do :) .oO(***@i-want-single-arg :P) 15:10
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grondilu m: constant foo = grep * % 2, 1 .. *; say foo[1]; say foo[1]; 15:17
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«3␤3␤»
grondilu m: constant primes = grep *.is-prime, 2 .. *; say (map 2 * *, primes)[^3]; say (map 3 * *, primes)[^3]; 15:18
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(4 6 10)␤This Seq has already been iterated, and its values consumed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mNp30ZydZT:1␤␤»
grondilu m: constant @primes = grep *.is-prime, 2 .. *; say (map 2 * *, @primes)[^3]; say (map 3 * *, @primes)[^3];
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(4 6 10)␤This Seq has already been iterated, and its values consumed␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/kUDir4ylC_:1␤␤»
grondilu m: my @primes = grep *.is-prime, 2 .. *; say (map 2 * *, @primes)[^3]; say (map 3 * *, @primes)[^3];
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«(4 6 10)␤(6 9 15)␤»
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FROGGS[mobile] nine: perhaps look of the ast what :a(1) :b(2) produces, to be able to reproduce it with other Perl 6 code 15:24
nine: if nothing helps I can look into it in about three hours 15:25
cdc bbkr: I think you wouldn't exhaust the thread pool if you move the start block after the recursive call, ie. "start { sleep 1 # here the chapter itself is processed }" 15:26
FROGGS[mobile] nine: though I plan to spend the night fighting the JVM breakage 15:27
cdc .tell bbkr: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-09-06#i_11176345 15:28
yoleaux cdc: What kind of a name is "bbkr:"?!
cdc .tell bbkr irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-09-06#i_11176345
yoleaux cdc: I'll pass your message to bbkr.
15:35 bbkr joined 15:40 lolisa joined
bbkr cdc: yes, but this is suboptimal solution. It was my first attempt to fix: gist.github.com/bbkr/b27aca2d1a265...e-txt-L127 15:44
yoleaux 15:28Z <cdc> bbkr: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-09-06#i_11176345
[Tux] GLR:
test 50000 54.743 54.658
test-t 50000 54.748 54.664
timotimo that's more than it used to be, huh? :(
bbkr I've even explained why it won't give full speedup, but whole post became too big so I got this solution removed. 15:45
[Tux] yes, but I have been able to test GLR just *once* before
[Tux] is building nom just now to compare
timotimo OK
masak ShimmerFairy: the correct answer, if such a thing existed, would of course be "Not a Boolean" :P 15:47
timotimo NaB, eh? 15:48
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timotimo hm 15:50
[Tux] have glr and nom been merged? I now get the same errors in nom as I get in glr
timotimo the problem i may be seeing is an eliminated-by-optimizer block has survived and that causes some trouble
or something
glr is now in nom, yes
cdc bbkr: oh, I see. 15:52
masak found a regression. 15:55
m: sub foo { sub bar($) { "OH HAI" }; bar 5 }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak m: sub foo { bar 5; sub bar($) { "OH HAI" } }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«sub bar ($) { #`(Sub|71849184) ... }␤»
masak submits rakudobug
I think this is unusual enough that it hasn't been discovered yet in the spectests or ecosystem. 15:57
but we should probably have a spectest for it :)
anyway, behold! gist.github.com/masak/b9371625ad85cfe0faba -- fizzbuzz without conditionals in Perl 6 :) 15:59
(forked from a Clojure version)
garu masak++ 16:04
timotimo masak: so ... what is the bug? 16:05
vendethiel masak: you can also cheat and use && - || instead of ?? - !! :P 16:06
timotimo pah
but then you have a conditional on the LHS of && 16:07
vendethiel m: say True && 1 || 0;
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«1␤»
vendethiel timotimo: ?
masak timotimo: the bug is that the sub is not called if it's post-declared. 16:08
m: sub foo { bar 5; sub bar($) { "OH HAI" } }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«sub bar ($) { #`(Sub|64738528) ... }␤»
masak ^ that's wrong.
vendethiel masak: it is called, you're just not "say"ing in it
masak no, look again.
vendethiel m: sub foo { bar 5; sub bar($) { say "OH HAI" } }; say foo
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤sub bar ($) { #`(Sub|50845312) ... }␤»
masak oh, argh. 16:09
vendethiel masak: the say is after the return. what's returned is the last expr - the sub
masak yes, I'm wrong. ignore me. :)
masak goes to reject the ticket
timotimo :)
masak m: sub foo { return bar 5; sub bar($) { "OH HAI" } }; say foo 16:10
camelia rakudo-moar 13f829: OUTPUT«OH HAI␤»
masak that's what I meant.
timotimo good that it works :)
i'm pretty sure we rely on calling postdeclared subs in core, actually 16:13
mst masak: cute
masak mst: yes, one of those "ooh, I wish I had thought of that" ideas 16:14
of course, both multis and infix:<5> could be said to be conditional-ish in nature 16:15
infix:<%> *
typing with 8mo in lap :)
timotimo i think there's some oversharing of QAST::Var objects going on somewhere in rakudo and that's what messes up the optimizer :| 16:16
mst masak: felt very erlang-ish