»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
masak at least that's the way it feels, deep down in my intuition. 00:00
but yes, I see the deviation from consistency in what an integer literal *is* in the language. 00:05
suddently it's one thing inside of literals, and another thing outside of them.
I wonder if there's a middle way somehow, a way to allow prefix:<-> without corrupting what "literal" means. 00:06
'night, #perl6
00:11 BenGoldberg joined
vendethiel o/ masak 00:18
00:21 Juerd joined 00:22 telex left 00:24 telex joined 00:25 Juerd left, Juerd joined 00:26 ugexe left 00:28 mprelude left 00:29 mprelude joined 00:41 Skarsnik left 00:45 telex left 00:46 telex joined 00:55 telex left, mr_ron left 00:56 telex joined
ShimmerFairy TimToady: my suspicion is that more people see -1 where the - is a literal part of the int (like '.' in 3.0, or 'e' in 5e2), and don't see it so much as &prefix:<->(1) 01:08
TimToady: but I don't know if actually making the change to reflect is a good idea at this point.
01:08 telex left 01:09 aborazmeh joined, aborazmeh left, aborazmeh joined
ShimmerFairy notes that S03 shows ** has its own precedence level all by itself, most likely just to make -1 ** 2 mathematically right 01:09
01:10 telex joined
dalek kudo/nom: ea2d21c | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
allow negative integers as parameters
 01:16
ast: 08154ac | TimToady++ | S06-multi/value-based.t:
test negative parameter values
BenGoldberg m: say -1 ** 0.5 01:17
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«-1␤»
BenGoldberg m: sqrt(-1)
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of "sqrt(-1)" in expression "sqrt(-1)" in sink context (line 1)␤»
BenGoldberg m: sqrt(-1).say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
BenGoldberg m: sqrt(-1 + 0i).say 01:18
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
BenGoldberg m: ((-1 + 0i) ** .5 ).say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«6.12323399573677e-17+1i␤»
BenGoldberg m: ((-1) ** .5 ).say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
BenGoldberg m: (-1 ** .5 ).say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«-1␤»
ShimmerFairy m: use Test; is-approx i, <-1+0i> ** .5, 1e-6 01:21
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
ShimmerFairy close enough though :P
(for some reason not specifying 1e-6 is broken with Test, even though that's the default)
BenGoldberg m: (<-1> ** .5 ).say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $x = 2; my $y = 3; say ($x.$y); # imagine if this printed '2.3' ?
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/bzNQcKrh0m:1␤␤»
BenGoldberg m: my $x = 2; my $y = 3; say($x.$y); # imagine if this printed '2.3' ? 01:22
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«Cannot find method 'postcircumfix:<( )>'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/X6TQ3o0npr:1␤␤»
ShimmerFairy BenGoldberg: yeah, that's the one thing that makes me hesitant about making -1 literal; it'd make '-' the only thing that's part of a literal *and* available as an operator :) 01:24
say (<-1+0i> ** .5).reals».Rat.map({$^a + $^b\i}) 01:25
m: say (<-1+0i> ** .5).reals».Rat.map({$^a + $^b\i})
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«(0+1i)␤»
ShimmerFairy BenGoldberg: for the record, piping the pieces of the Complex number through Rat happens to eliminate floating-point oddities ^^^ :)
01:26 vendethiel left 01:33 telex left 01:34 telex joined
BenGoldberg m: say (<-1+0i> ** .5).reals 01:35
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«(6.12323399573677e-17 1)␤»
BenGoldberg m: say (<-1+0i> ** .5).reals>>.Rat
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«(0 1)␤»
01:38 larion left
ShimmerFairy BenGoldberg: I can't guarantee that Num->Rat will always do that, but in this case it happened to :) 01:39
01:39 telex left 01:40 telex joined
ShimmerFairy ("that" being "remove some of the oddities that can appear in binary-based floating point numbers") 01:40
01:41 telex left 01:42 telex joined 01:45 ilbot3 left, colomon joined 01:47 ilbot3 joined
BenGoldberg m: Rat(1,1).say 01:47
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«2␤»
BenGoldberg m: Rat(1,-1).say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«2␤»
BenGoldberg m: Rat(1).say 01:48
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«1␤»
BenGoldberg m: Rat(-1).sqrt.say
camelia rakudo-moar 6252fc: OUTPUT«NaN␤»
01:53 dha joined 02:00 mprelude left
dha docs for C<while> and C<until> added. 02:03
02:03 rangerprice joined
dha You *can* git from an airplane! 02:04
02:09 colomon left 02:10 colomon joined
geekosaur network no longer costs more than the plane tickets? 02:13
dalek ecs: bdbe964 | ShimmerFairy++ | S03-operators.pod:
Add postfix:<i> to S03

It wasn't mentioned at all before, and since it's at the methodcall level in rakudo, which may not be expected at first, I figured it was worth mentioning. It also makes postfix:<i> the only operator at that level to not start with a dot, which seems like another noteworthy detail.
02:20 telex left, larion joined, telex joined 02:24 colomon left, colomon joined 02:31 telex left 02:32 telex joined 02:35 dha left 02:37 colomon left 02:48 noganex joined 02:51 colomon joined 02:52 noganex_ left 02:59 dust_ joined 03:11 telex left, telex joined 03:12 telex left 03:14 telex joined 03:15 rangerprice left 03:17 colomon left 03:22 telex left 03:23 telex joined, telex left 03:24 telex joined
zostay m: sub foo(Str() $s) { say $s }; foo(4) 03:27
yoleaux 14 Sep 2015 19:40Z <jdv79> zostay: IO::Socket::INET seems a bit too specific
camelia rakudo-moar ea2d21: OUTPUT«4␤»
zostay !tell jv79 IO::Socket::INET is too specific, but using the Raw IO is completely the wrong solution always and the alternative is to be implementation-specific, which might as well not even be in the standard 03:30
dalek p: 17b6555 | hoelzro++ | src/vm/js/nqp-runtime/deserialization.js:
Remove comments from JS backend

These are notes I was taking during my merge of the JS branch that I forgot to remove		 03:31
zostay .tell jdv79 IO::Socket::INET is too specific, but using the Raw IO is completely the wrong solution always and the alternative is to be implementation-specific, which might as well not even be in the standard 03:32
yoleaux zostay: I'll pass your message to jdv79.
03:36 larion left, travis-ci joined
travis-ci NQP build failed. Rob Hoelz 'Remove comments from JS backend 03:36
travis-ci.org/perl6/nqp/builds/81121244 github.com/perl6/nqp/compare/a2c05...b6555833df
03:36 travis-ci left 03:37 mr-foobar left
Zoffix TigerDirect-- # 20 minutes between my call and "I dunno. OK. BAI!" EVGA++ # 20 minutes between "Fix my card. Dunno what you want" and "K. Send it here. We'll fix it" 03:48
03:52 Loren joined 03:53 rurban joined 04:01 telex left 04:02 telex joined 04:03 rurban left 04:08 telex left, telex joined 04:09 telex left 04:10 telex joined
TEttinger Zoffix: good to know. I never know what companies have good customer service before it's too late 04:12
04:16 frodwith left 04:17 Peter_R left 04:21 khw left 04:26 rmgk is now known as Guest37138, rmgk_ joined, Guest37138 left, rmgk_ is now known as rmgk 04:31 vendethiel joined 04:33 xinming_ joined 04:36 xinming left 04:37 BenGoldberg left, telex left, telex joined 04:38 telex left 04:40 telex joined 04:47 Loren_ joined 04:50 quester joined, Loren left, quester is now known as Guest63960 04:53 Guest63960 left, Guest63960 joined 04:56 Guest63960 left, vendethiel left 04:57 quester joined, quester is now known as Guest59677
dalek ast: 3fdcdae | ShimmerFairy++ | S02-literals/allomorphic.t:
Fix tests for GLR

This test file was forgotten in the merging mess surrounding allomorphs, so it took a while for this to show up.		 05:00
05:01 Guest59677 left 05:06 lolisa joined, quester-temp joined 05:07 quester-temp left 05:08 quester joined, telex left, telex joined, telex left 05:10 telex joined 05:11 perl6_newbee joined 05:14 TEttinger left 05:16 dustinm` joined
dalek ast: 41fa6e7 | ShimmerFairy++ | S02-literals/allomorphic.t:
Change complex number val() tests.

On second thought, it seems that stacking signs like was being tested isn't all that useful, so the tests in question have been changed to testing a different kind of complex number (one using Inf in the imaginary part).		 05:17
05:18 telex left 05:20 telex joined 05:32 Sgeo left, CurtisPoe left 05:33 Sgeo joined
dalek ast: 12fe957 | ShimmerFairy++ | S02-types/ (3 files):
Fix plans in a few test files

These were forgotten about when various duplicate tests were removed.		 05:33
bartolin could it be that eval-dies-ok and eval-lives-ok from Test.pm is busted (and has been for some time)? it seems that symbols from the surrounding scope are not known: 05:43
m: use Test; my $a = 1; eval-dies-ok( '$a = 7' ) 05:44
camelia rakudo-moar ea2d21: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
bartolin m: use Test; my $a = 1; eval-lives-ok( '$a = 7' )
camelia rakudo-moar ea2d21: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤␤# Failed test at /tmp/EAYzorI5Ow line 1␤# Error: Variable '$a' is not declared␤»
bartolin star-m: use Test; my $a = 1; eval-dies-ok( '$a = 7' )
camelia star-m 2015.03: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/lcbJJuG6xn␤Undeclared routine:␤ eval-dies-ok used at line 1. Did you mean 'eval_dies_ok', 'eval_lives_ok'?␤␤»
bartolin star-m: use Test; my $a = 1; eval_dies_ok( '$a = 7' )
camelia star-m 2015.03: OUTPUT«ok 1 - ␤»
bartolin star-m: use Test; my $a = 1; throws-like '$a = 7', Exception # works for throws-like 05:45
camelia star-m 2015.03: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5NDOMQiyA1␤Undeclared routine:␤ throws-like used at line 1. Did you mean 'throws_like'?␤␤»
bartolin m: use Test; my $a = 1; throws-like '$a = 7', Exception # works for throws-like 05:46
camelia rakudo-moar ea2d21: OUTPUT« 1..2␤ not ok 1 - '$a = 7' died␤ ␤# Failed test ''$a = 7' died'␤# at /tmp/CPXtcpXSwR line 1␤ ok 2 - # SKIP Code did not die, can not check exception␤ # Looks like you failed 1 test of 2␤not ok 1 - did we throws-like Exception?…»
05:47 skids left
bartolin hmm, adding 'context => CALLER::CALLER::CALLER::' to the EVAL in eval_exception (Test.pm:484) seems to fix that. 05:56
06:01 skids joined 06:02 domidumont joined 06:05 telex left
dalek kudo/nom: 9856a43 | TimToady++ | src/core/ (2 files):
change list associative reductions to onearg
 06:06
06:06 telex joined, laouji joined 06:07 domidumont left 06:08 domidumont joined 06:16 telex left 06:17 skids left 06:18 telex joined
bartolin with that change to Test.pm there are about a dozen spectest failures. (maybe wrong tests) 06:27
06:29 pnu left 06:30 pnu joined, FROGGS left 06:37 telex left, telex joined, telex left 06:38 telex joined 06:45 perl6_newbee left 07:24 telex left 07:26 telex joined
dalek osystem: 133a138 | ugexe++ | META.list:
Update META.list
 07:28
07:28 hoelzro left, hoelzro joined 07:33 rindolf joined 07:37 telex left 07:38 telex joined 07:39 leont joined
garu_ hi everyone! quick question: what's the most idiomatic way to fetch the last element of an array? Like $array[-1] in Perl 5 07:47
07:50 CIAvash joined
ShimmerFairy garu_: @array[*-1] (the * in this case means "number of elements") 07:50
mst every time I see *, I think "and I thought $_ meant lots of things" 07:51
garu_ heh
mst then again also every time I see *, I think "ooooh shiny"
"this sword is double edged, what a surprise"
dalek ecs: 3bf2eb9 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S07-lists.pod:
Fix syntax error and add clarification in S07-lists
 07:52
garu_ ShimmerFairy: thanks! Now that you mentioned it, I see it right there on the error message :)
ShimmerFairy np :) 07:53
07:54 telex left 07:55 araujo joined, araujo left, araujo joined 07:56 telex joined
lizmat technically, *-1 creates a code object that takes a single parameter 08:02
the slicing logic will call that with the number of elements 08:03
but you can really do anything with this
m: my @a = ^10; @a[ { say "got $^a" } ] 08:04
camelia rakudo-moar 9856a4: OUTPUT«got 10␤»
08:11 aborazmeh left 08:12 darutoko joined 08:16 Loren_ left 08:18 telex left 08:20 telex joined 08:21 diana_olhovik_ joined 08:28 TEttinger joined
nine Should I rebase gmr onto nom before merging or merge nom into gmr? 08:40
timotimo personally, i prefer rebasing 08:43
psch hi #perl6 o/ 08:47
rebase both ways 08:48
timotimo ohai psch
psch always rebase everything!
timotimo yeah, rebase nom onte gmr!
psch and then back!
timotimo draw a pretty picture in the history graph
ShimmerFairy GitTurtle programming language
dalek ast: b88cb33 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S (3 files):
Rename EnumMap to Map
 08:59
roast: 473e246 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | S (7 files):
roast: Merge Enum into Pair
08:59 dalek left, dalek joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v dalek
timotimo in the past i've tended to build "new" branches with "_2", "_3", .. whenever i've rebased things i expect others would already have played with 09:00
but if you're going to merge the stuff into nom anyway, there's no need for that
nine github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/7ee6ef9 Remove PairMap - its use case is unclear and it's untested
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0d40e00 Fix return 1, :a(2)
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0f699bb Make %hash.pairs .value writable
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/0e0495e Fix passing adverbs to 'import' and 'no' statements
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5256ed6 Fix {:a(1) :b(2)} dieing due to missing value arg to Pair.new
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/86536d2 Fix (:a(1) :b(2)) dieing due to missing value arg to Pair.new 09:01
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/de907e5 Fix use Foo :whatever<1> losing the adverb's value
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4023a33 Make :a($i) and a => $i mutable like 'a' => $i
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/2232157 Merge Enum into Pair
pink_mist nine++
ShimmerFairy The advice I've seen (and agree with): rebase unless/until you've pushed the stuff-to-rebase somewhere, at which point it saves everyone grief to just merge
nine Makes sense, yes. 09:03
ShimmerFairy Even then, I don't think merging is as bad as some people would like to make it out to be :)
(merging feels more natural as a way of saying "I am taking this feature I've been working on, and moving it into the mainline" to me, for example, and unlike rebasing explains the time warping you'll see in commit timestamps ☺) 09:05
09:05 vendethiel joined
nine Well you have to merge the feature branch into the mainline even after rebasing it. I should have used --no-ff though to get a proper merge commit. OTOH half of gmr's commits were fixes that would have been good to have even without the gmr. 09:06
09:06 diana_olhovik_ left
nine So it wouldn't have made as much sense to revert the whole merge 09:06
09:09 diana_olhovik joined
nine And 2 tickets closed by the gmr :) 09:09
psch huh, IntStr has a P6OpaqueDelegateInstance in field_0 during construction..? 09:10
does that make sense..? :/
09:11 telex left 09:12 telex joined
timotimo daleninek? 09:15
psch ...and P6bigint.c isn't really helpful :/ 09:21
the thing that i'm kind of hung up on right now is
timotimo you may want to look into P6Opaque instead?
to find out how these things work? 09:22
psch yesterday i had a case where REPRData.unboxIntSlot had the right hint for the field the bigint should go in
timotimo that should be the common case, no?
psch but i forgot the exact case, and the one i use now doesn't have it
i'm guessing &val and <0> do it differently somehow, still 09:23
but even if that hint is there it's still wonky, cause we want to bind_native
but IntStr has a P6opaque in field_1 that has the BigInteger in field_0 09:24
or "had", rather, in cases where it worked
but Int has a BigInteger in field_0
which i guess is not-quite-right composition 09:25
and composition being wonky would also explain why we get a delegateInstance in field_0 - and not in .delegate
well, excepting the (reasonable) explanation "psch doesn't really get it, it's fine" :P 09:26
timotimo huh 09:29
timotimo doesn't knows
psch P6opaque.c looks like i'd expect it - it checks unbox_int_slot and gets the bigint from there 09:30
timotimo yeah
psch which means the IntStr type doesn't get the right hints on jvm, but does on moar 09:32
timotimo OK, that may be a good hint perhaps 09:34
psch it's puzzling, cause seeing the fitting unboxIntSlot in the debugger is what made me rewrite my impl from "iterate the reflected fields and check their type" to "check for the slot in the REPRData" 09:36
timotimo we're supposed to have only one slot for every kind of unboxing operation, so that'd make sense 09:37
at least that's how moar does it, as you've figured out for yourself, too
psch i mean, all unbox*Slot are -1, so none get set apparently 09:39
that's with &val and <0>, so potential differences in object construction there aren't it :s
timotimo very strange
09:39 [Sno] left 09:40 [Sno] joined 09:42 spider-mario joined
ShimmerFairy psch: have you tried seeing what happens with the older version of IntStr construction? It won't work when you want bigger-than-native integers, but does a construction process mirroring the other allomorphs still cause problems? 09:43
psch ShimmerFairy: oh, you mean without the add_I workaround? i expect that to not hit the same code path at all 09:44
ShimmerFairy: but the getBI/makeBI bits are what's wonky in the first place 09:45
ShimmerFairy psch: yes, that's what I mean. I also wonder what would happen if IntStr did nqp::create like the other types, but still did add_I to actually set the Int part. 09:46
psch: OK. I've gotten the feeling that it's the VM's fault, but admittedly the IntStr is being constructed a bit weirdly :)
psch ShimmerFairy: well, it's not the VM, it's our bigint handling :)
ShimmerFairy: nqp::create would only add another (unused) allocation, makeBI allocates as well 09:47
ShimmerFairy psch: it's the VM's fault for not making bigints easier at first implementation :P
psch ShimmerFairy: idk, the first implementation was really easy and worked :P 09:52
well, until we had IntStr that is 09:53
09:53 cognominal joined
timotimo i'm glad you're doing it, psch 09:54
i mean, working on fixing the JVM port of rakudo
moritz psch: just wait for intInt, the new type with a native int and a bigint slot, hold separate values 50% of the time
:-)
09:55 mprelude joined
timotimo and also the AtAt class that represents objects that have two locations in physical memory 09:58
psch and ObjAtAt that points at the ObjAt 09:59
timotimo and, of course, AtSt which points at an object's STable's memory location
_itz I assume GMR fallout might be less pain than GLR? 10:00
psch oh right
timotimo much, much, much less
probably not noticable
_itz :D
psch and then we can implement polymorphic objects that use an algorithm adapted from C3MRO to find their REPRs, and call them C3PO right 10:01
timotimo yes.
10:03 telex left
erxeto moritz: thsnka for the patch on DBIish. Now Task::Star installation completes without issues. 10:03
thanks*
timotimo sweet
10:04 telex joined
moritz erxeto: you're welcome 10:11
dalek ar/panda-bootstrap: 7b2465c | moritz++ | tools/star/release-guide.pod:
Wee correction in the release guide

since there is no more PARROT_VERSION to adjust, there are only three lines to change		 10:14
ar: 06f75c4 | moritz++ | tools/build/panda-state.p6:
Socket.send is now .print
 10:18
10:19 leont left 10:20 telex left, telex joined, telex left 10:22 telex joined
dalek kudo/nom: a3962b0 | (Stefan Seifert)++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Fix IO::Handle not correctly limiting lines in batch processing

The iterator's push-all did not actually stop iteration when $!todo got down to 0. Also it did not close the file handle on reaching eof despite being asked to do so.
Fixes regression in S16-filehandles/io.t		 10:22
moritz isn't it wonderful that we have tests? :-) 10:23
ShimmerFairy moritz: and so many! :) 10:24
nine If only we could have more of them. 10:27
10:28 telex left
nine The closing the file handle part is not covered by any test 10:28
10:28 telex joined, telex left 10:30 telex joined 10:40 domidumont left, vendethiel left
cognominal Where is the S[] = ... with the upper case S documented in the synopses? 10:43
timotimo that's just the "sequential" metaop
right?
but i haven't seen it used in that way yet
ShimmerFairy timotimo: perhaps the S/// non-mutating substitution 10:44
psch S03:Sequential_Operators
cognominal I see it alright in the grammar and actions github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/....nqp#L6803 but not in roast or the spec. I probably don't know where to look
psch vOv
design.perl6.org/S03.html#Sequential_operators
but there's also S///, as ShimmerFairy says
timotimo oh, of course
in that case it's the non-mutating substitution 10:45
psch m: $_ = "foo"; say S[o] = "O"
camelia rakudo-moar 7ee6ef: OUTPUT«fOo␤»
psch m: $_ = "foo"; say S[o] = "O"; .say 10:46
camelia rakudo-moar 7ee6ef: OUTPUT«fOo␤foo␤»
cognominal m: $_ = "foo"; say s[o] = "O"; .say
camelia rakudo-moar 7ee6ef: OUTPUT«｢o｣␤fOo␤»
psch S/// is .subst, s/// is .subst-mutate 10:47
cognominal ok
10:50 perl6_newbee joined
masak right, it's what the /r flag does in Perl 5. 10:50
10:55 TEttinger left 10:56 telex left 10:58 telex joined
moritz ARGL, why do we have both Term::ANSIColor and Terminal::ANSIColor in the ecosystem? 11:01
of course this makes a star relase harder :( 11:02
11:03 fling joined, fling left, fling joined
ShimmerFairy moritz: because it was suddenly a bad thing for "Term" to be a name in modules. Somehow. 11:04
moritz though Term::ColorText, Term::ProgressBar and Term::termios don't seem to be particularly bad 11:05
dalek ar: 4051620 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
Bump some versions
 11:06
ar: 9c32c32 | moritz++ | modules/ (27 files):
Update submodules
ShimmerFairy moritz: yep, IIRC the reason was this "but there's a name called 'term' in the grammar!!!" or something along those lines, which I don't buy at all.
(Term::ColorText is mine, and damned if I rename it) 11:07
11:08 jack_rabbit_ joined
dalek ar: 8b1cb9f | moritz++ | / (4 files):
Use Terminal::ANSIColor instead of Term::ANSIColor

Grammar::Debugger has changed its dependency. Because reasons.		 11:10
moritz Testing modules/p6-file-directory-tree with /home/moritz/p6/star/install/bin/perl6-m... 11:13
done without supply or react in block <unit> at t/basic.t:26
.tell labster any chance you could merge github.com/labster/p6-file-directo...ree/pull/5 soonish? It would help with the Rakudo Star release 11:14
yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to labster.
moritz panda and Template::Mustache use JSON::Fast, while jsonrpc still uses JSON::Tiny 11:16
I guess for now star will have to ship both :(
(unless we drop jsonrpc)
11:26 larion joined 11:31 telex left 11:32 telex joined
jnthn wondered why the Term/Terminal bikeshed pointlessness 11:45
I only accepted the PR to stop my module give people a warning, not 'cus I thought the name change made sense. 11:46
11:52 z448 joined 11:53 kid51 joined 11:54 Marius joined, Marius is now known as Guest19613
Guest19613 Marius1984 11:54
Identificar Marius1984 11:55
timotimo you change your nickname by typing /nick Marius1984
DrForr Or more pertinently /msg nickserv help 11:56
11:56 Guest19613 left 11:57 rindolf left
z448 p6: say something 11:58
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/tmpfile␤Undeclared routine:␤ something used at line 1␤␤»
z448 p6: say 'something';
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«something␤»
psch /o\ 11:59
12:00 CIAvash left
ShimmerFairy jnthn: that was what I recall btw. I can't fathom why 'Term' and 'term' could ever be a problem, esp. since we're not a case-insensitive language :) 12:01
12:05 z448 left
timotimo i didn't even know we changed the name; i thought someone came up with a distinct Terminal::ANSIColor 12:07
12:08 rindolf joined
ShimmerFairy nah, it's just the result of pointless bikeshedding :) 12:08
timotimo this is the perfect opportunity to model and implement "provides" 12:09
Terminal::ANSIColor provides Term::ANSIColor
jnthn & 12:14
12:15 colomon joined 12:16 kanishka joined, vendethiel joined 12:25 telex left 12:26 telex joined
tadzik timotimo: the idea to change the name is that Term is a thing in perl 6 12:35
as in term 'self' or so 12:36
timotimo oh
12:36 Andrie joined
timotimo that sounds kind of sensible 12:36
timotimo puts down pitchfork and torch
12:37 Andrie left
ShimmerFairy tadzik: still not convincing for me. 'Term' is not a thing in standard P6, and I don't buy that someone will mistake Term::ANSIColor for implementing a term, for example. 12:37
tadzik so we might have eventually Operator::plusminus and Term::thyself or so
ShimmerFairy: it's not a matter of mistaking it's that Term may become useful for us in module space, and I think it's good to disambiguate Terminal 12:38
ShimmerFairy But it already is useful, as meaning Term[inal] :)
tadzik heh :)
12:39 larion left
tadzik maybe we should use some unicode monospace characters that read Term 12:39
ShimmerFairy (and there's no law saying we have to make sure a part of a longname has an entirely, 100% unique and singular meaning)
timotimo why don't we have a version of Term::ANSIColor that exports the colors as terms? :P
tadzik timotimo: that... is brilliant
timotimo Termi, termn, Terma, terml?
tadzik Term::inator 12:40
that'd be a module for terming
12:40 vendethiel left, mr_ron joined, Goblin_ joined
Goblin_ How to convert string into array of chars? 12:41
tadzik .comb should work
m: "foobar".comb.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«("f", "o", "o", "b", "a", "r").Seq␤»
tadzik fsvo array
timotimo well, if you assign it to a @foo, you'll get a proper array 12:42
but oftentimes you don't need that
12:42 tomboh joined
colomon m: my @a = “foobar”.comb; dd @a 12:43
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Array @a = ["f", "o", "o", "b", "a", "r"]␤»
colomon indeed. :)
_itz maybe contraversial but
github.com/rakudo/star/pull/50
tomboh I have installed rakudo and moarvm on freebsd, and I'm seeing t/04-nativecall/16-rt125408.t fail - is this a known problem?
timotimo i'm not against that 12:44
tomboh I don't see anything in RT but I thought I'd ask here before submitting a new bug report
colomon _itz: I don’t think there’d be anything contraversial at all if you just added the SPW slides. (Presuming we have jnthn++’s permission.)
_itz good point we should at least ask :) 12:45
12:46 Marius joined, Marius is now known as Guest95184
Guest95184 Hack bank BPI whit Marius1984 12:46
psch tomboh: the filename is a ticket number, RT #125408 12:47
tomboh: it's closed though, and i'm not sure if you can request reopen on RT directly
(rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=125408)
_itz jnthn: can we use your SWP slides as a replacement (for the time being) for the draft book pdf in star please? 12:48
^ SPW
tomboh psch: sure, I gather the test is a regression test to ensure the fix for rt#125408 doesn't break - and I'm seeing it fail
12:50 Psyche^_ joined
tomboh oh, but that was only fixed on Thursday - I'll do a fresh "git pull" and retest 12:51
12:53 telex left
tomboh psch: thank you, "All tests successful." :) 12:53
12:55 telex joined, telex left 12:56 telex joined 12:57 Guest95184 left 12:59 pmurias joined
pmurias (Term::ANSIColor rename)-- 12:59
13:00 vendethiel joined
pmurias there is already Term::Curses 13:03
there is always Lang::Term:: for linguistic usage 13:06
timotimo mhm 13:08
13:08 larion joined
dalek ar: e933fca | moritz++ | / (3 files):
Ship JSON::Fast with Star

panda and Template::Mustache (included from Bailador) depend on it		 13:10
13:16 frodwith joined, pmurias left 13:19 telex left 13:20 telex joined 13:28 mr_ron left 13:31 diana_olhovik left 13:40 Goblin_ left 13:41 laouji left 13:44 Goblin_ joined
Goblin_ How to generate all possible permutations of characters with a given minimum and maximum length? 13:44
13:45 nuc joined 13:48 Marius joined, Marius is now known as Guest55267
colomon Goblin_: of a given set of characters? 13:50
Goblin_ yes
colomon Goblin_: doc.perl6.org/routine/combinations 13:51
m: say (‘a’ .. ‘f’).combinations(3..4).perl 13:52
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(("a", "b", "c"), ("a", "b", "d"), ("a", "b", "e"), ("a", "b", "f"), ("a", "c", "d"), ("a", "c", "e"), ("a", "c", "f"), ("a", "d", "e"), ("a", "d", "f"), ("a", "e", "f"), ("b", "c", "d"), ("b", "c", "e"), ("b", "c", "f"), ("b", "d", "e"), ("b", "d", "f"), …»
colomon oh, wait, you want permutations.
m: say (‘a’ .. ‘f’).permutations(3..4).perl
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Cannot call permutations(List: Range); none of these signatures match:␤ (List $: *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/KUHFfrwMSI:1␤␤»
colomon m: say (‘a’ .. ‘f’).permutations(3).perl
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Cannot call permutations(List: Int); none of these signatures match:␤ (List $: *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ID80shav9d:1␤␤»
psch m: say (‘a’ .. ‘f’).permutations().perl 13:53
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f"), ("a", "b", "c", "d", "f", "e"), ("a", "b", "c", "e", "d", "f"), ("a", "b", "c", "e", "f", "d"), ("a", "b", "c", "f", "d", "e"), ("a", "b", "c", "f", "e", "d"), ("a", "b", "d", "c", "e", "f"), ("a", "b", "d", "c", "f", "e"),…»
colomon m: say (‘a’ .. ‘f’).permutations().perl
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(("a", "b", "c", "d", "e", "f"), ("a", "b", "c", "d", "f", "e"), ("a", "b", "c", "e", "d", "f"), ("a", "b", "c", "e", "f", "d"), ("a", "b", "c", "f", "d", "e"), ("a", "b", "c", "f", "e", "d"), ("a", "b", "d", "c", "e", "f"), ("a", "b", "d", "c", "f", "e"),…»
13:53 laouji joined
colomon hmmm… may have to play around a bit to get a combination of those two things…. 13:54
timotimo no, i think he does want combinations, not permutations
otherwise "minimum and maximum length" don't make sense
oh, but maybe no repetition is wanted? 13:55
DrForr I'd guess 'aaa', 'aab'..'fffe','ffff' for password generation?
Goblin_ yes
13:58 laouji left
timotimo ah 13:58
well, that's just 'aaa'..'zzzzz' in that case
m: say ("aa".."zzz").perl 13:59
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«"aa".."zzz"␤»
timotimo m: say ("aa".."zzz").list.perl
moritz m: say join '', ('a'..'z').roll((3..5).pick)
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«("aa", "ab", "ac", "ad", "ae", "af", "ag", "ah", "ai", "aj", "ak", "al", "am", "an", "ao", "ap", "aq", "ar", "as", "at", "au", "av", "aw", "ax", "ay", "az", "ba", "bb", "bc", "bd", "be", "bf", "bg", "bh", "bi", "bj", "bk", "bl", "bm", "bn", "bo", "bp", "bq…»
rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«uiiq␤»
timotimo ah, there you can't really see it get longer
moritz huh
timotimo m: say ("aa".."ccc").list.perl
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«("aa", "ab", "ac", "ad", "ae", "af", "ag", "ah", "ai", "aj", "ak", "al", "am", "an", "ao", "ap", "aq", "ar", "as", "at", "au", "av", "aw", "ax", "ay", "az", "ba", "bb", "bc", "bd", "be", "bf", "bg", "bh", "bi", "bj", "bk", "bl", "bm", "bn", "bo", "bp", "bq…»
timotimo oh, and there it does a-z, too
14:00 cognominal left, dust_ left, cognominal joined 14:02 telex left
psch m: say join '', ('a'..'z').roll((3..5).pick(5)) 14:02
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«gqh␤»
psch oh right
m: say join '', ('a'..'z').roll((3..5).pick)[^5]
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«quk␤»
psch m: say ('a'..'z').roll((3..5).pick)[^5]
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(c b t t)␤»
psch m: say ('a'..'zzzz').roll((3..5).pick)[^5]
timeout \o/ 14:03
14:03 Goblin_ left
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 14:03
psch well, yeah, to be expected...
14:04 telex joined 14:12 mr_ron joined, Sqirrel_ left
moritz it needs to generate the whole list to even know the propability to pick one 14:19
DrForr Isn't there an old interview question showing how to get around that? Something like "Choose an item from an arbitrarily long list with equal probability to each entry?" Something like the equivalent of for(@x){rand(1/$.) and return $_} (though $. doesn't work for arrays, and it's perl5.) 14:21
lucs DrForr: I believe you need to know when you've reached the end of that arbitrarily long list for that technique to work. 14:24
14:24 laouji joined
DrForr Entirely possible, it's been a long time since I've had to deal with that interview question. 14:25
dalek ar: f86f204 | (Steve Mynott)++ | docs/ (2 files):
Replace draft book (not currently actively maintained) by jnthn's Swiss
 14:28
ar: a738fc9 | moritz++ | docs/ (2 files):
Merge pull request #50 from stmuk/master

Replace draft book by SWP slides
14:52 telex left, zakharyas joined 14:54 telex joined
moritz anyone want to write a release announcment for the 2015.09 star release? 14:55
14:58 Skarsnik joined
Skarsnik Hello. How do I get the type of an attribute? (getting it from MyClass.^attributes) $attr.WHAT give me.. Attribute 15:05
moritz Skarsnik: it seems that's not exposed yet 15:06
psch m: class A { has Int $!foo }; A.^attributes[0].type.say 15:07
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
moritz m: say Atribute.^can('type')
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/PyptEZTlbG␤Undeclared name:␤ Atribute used at line 1. Did you mean 'Attribute'?␤␤»
moritz m: say Attribute.^can('type')
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(<anon>)␤»
Skarsnik oh there is a .type?
moritz seems like it
m: say Int.^attributes[0].type
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Method 'gist' not found for invocant of class 'bigint'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/IAxlHLc7NV:1␤␤»
15:08 khw joined
moritz ah, bootstrapping 15:08
psch yeah, that's bigint $!value
masak some 'gist' methods still missing.
moritz m: say Enum[C.^attributes[0].type
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/5QL6R9_krV␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/5QL6R9_krV:1␤------> 3say Enum7⏏5.^attributes[0].type␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ …»
moritz m: say Enum.^attributes[0].type
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/gleQBHt7Ye␤Undeclared name:␤ Enum used at line 1. Did you mean 'num'?␤␤»
masak m: say Int.^attributes[0].type.^name
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«bigint␤»
psch m: say Int.^attributes[0].^attributes[2].type.^name 15:10
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Mu␤»
psch that's $!descriptor, iirc :P
m: say Int.^attributes[0].^attributes[2].name
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«$!box_target␤»
psch ah, now
-w
m: say Int.^attributes[0].^attributes>>.name
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«($!name $!type $!box_target $!package $!inlined)␤»
psch shrugs 15:11
moritz m: say Attribute.^methods(:local)>>.name
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(<anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> <anon> compose apply_handles get_value set_value container has-accessor readonly package inlined WHY set_why Str gist)␤»
Skarsnik I got a weird error too: I have sub plain_attr(Hash $opt, Attribute @tab). If I write plain_attr({}, MyClass.^attributes) I got a type check error, but if I write the Attribute @tab= MyClass.^attributes and call the sub with the @tab it work 15:12
dalek c: 99aef50 | moritz++ | lib/Type/Attribute.pod:
Document Attribute.type
 15:13
moritz Skarsnik: I'll have to write an FAQ entry for that one, I fear :(
psch m: my Attribute @foo; say Int.^attributes.WHAT; say @foo.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«(List)␤(Array[Attribute])␤»
15:14 Guest55267 left
psch m: say List ~~ Array[Attribute].new 15:14
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«False␤»
psch m: say Array[Attribute].new ~~ List
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz Skarsnik: if you have a paramter typed 'Attribute @thing', then it'll only accept arguments of type Positional[Attribute] (or subtypes thereof, such as List[Attribute]
Skarsnik Type check failed in binding @tab; expected 'Positional[Attribute]' but got 'Parcel' 15:15
psch makes me wonder if we want CORE to return narrowly typed lists...
moritz Skarsnik: the difference is that *assignment* to an array is coercive, so it doesn't matter what the right-hand side is typed
psch probably not, even ignoring performance
moritz Skarsnik: oh, and your rakudo is too old
15:15 mr_ron left 15:16 zakharyas left
Skarsnik I don't know. I install perl6 with a script from perl6.org like 2 month ago ~~ 15:16
psch hm, is parameterized type coercion design..? 15:17
moritz psch: no
psch m: Array[Int](@(1, 2, 3)) # somewhat like this
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Type check failed in assignment to ''; expected 'Int' but got 'List'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Nt3naZeWF6:1␤␤»
moritz psch: see www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6....g2155.html for my rant
Skarsnik it's pretty... unatural? unexpected? x) 15:18
moritz Skarsnik: I know; assignment to arrays is coercive, so people are surprised with (signature-)binding to arrays isn't 15:19
Skarsnik It's more for me an Array is an ..Array. why would it be weird subtype that I have to pay attention? 15:21
psch Skarsnik: a (workable but clumsy) comparison is Java generics
Skarsnik: an ArrayList<Object> can be assigned an ArrayList<Integer>, but an ArrayList<Integer> can't be assigned an ArrayList<Object> 15:22
Skarsnik: and any literal array in perl6 is pretty much an Array[Any] 15:23
moritz: i think i had read your rant once already... i have to admit the approach mused about seems tempting, but i can't see the bits of the Binder i know work good with it - not to speak of those i don't... 15:24
so, yeah, "if you want to have typed arrays in your signatures, declare the arrays you want to pass as typed as well" 15:25
m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my Int @b = 1, 2, 3; f @b
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«6␤»
psch m: sub f(Int @a) { say [+] @a }; my @b = 1, 2, 3; f @b
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding @a; expected 'Positional[Int]' but got 'Array'␤ in sub f at /tmp/fkBHZ2t0_L:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/fkBHZ2t0_L:1␤␤»
Skarsnik but if the core class does not give typed thing. It make the whole type stuff useless 15:26
psch m: sub f(@a where all(@a) ~~ Int) { say [+] @a }; my @b = 1, 2, 3; f @b
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«6␤»
psch Skarsnik: i don't agree that it makes "the whole type stuff" useless 15:28
moritz psch: I wrote that before I knew that the PositionalBindFailover trick was possible
Skarsnik it make it a struggle
moritz Skarsnik: only if you overdo it 15:29
TimToady by putting the type on the receiving end and not the sending end, you're just violating postel's law
moritz Skarsnik: it takes some time to find the sweet spot between too much and too little type-constraining
Skarsnik but it's the core fault if ^attributes is not typed, no mine 15:30
moritz Skarsnik: it's not documented to return a typed list, so there is no fault.
psch Skarsnik: i think postel's law is bad advice
oh
err
TimToady then :P 15:31
i guess that should read as "we don't type the list, so you're breaking things if you want it constrained"?
15:34 skids joined
Skarsnik The issue is: Ok perl6 offer type. let's type some stuff to have the compilator be able to do some check for us and avoid writing error. but it does not really work like this at all. or when it's work you have to learn weird subtility that make sens if you know most of the internal (That how It feel for me using type) 15:34
moritz Skarsnik: you don't need to know any internals to know when to expect a typed list; reading the docs is enough 15:36
masak I agree with Skarsnik's sentiment, if not his rationale. 15:37
to the point where I've concluded for the time being that typed arrays are not of interest to me.
15:37 telex left
TimToady well, we probably need a couple of things we don't have: 1) an easy way to narrow a list, and 2) and easy way to type the values of a list 15:38
masak well, hm. not really that extreme.
I did end up liking typed array attributes.
like `has Item @.items`
15:38 telex joined
masak that's probably thanks to lizmat++, who implemented it so that they actually typecheck stuff. 15:38
gfldex r: my @a = [Mu]; @a.perl.say; for @a -> $i:D {} 15:40
camelia rakudo-jvm a3962b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not invoke this object␤»
..rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object␤»
gfldex r: my @a = [Mu]; for @a -> $i:D {} 15:41
moritz doesn't even know how -> $i:D { } parses
camelia rakudo-jvm a3962b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not invoke this object␤»
..rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object␤»
gfldex std: for @a -> $i:D {}
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Variable @a is not predeclared at /tmp/wsIb5I8jdj line 1:␤------> 3for 7⏏5@a -> $i:D {}␤Potential difficulties:␤ $i is declared but not used at /tmp/wsIb5I8jdj line 1:␤------> 3for @a -> 7⏏5$i:D {}␤Check failed␤FAILED…»
gfldex std: my @a; for @a -> $i:D {}
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ $i is declared but not used at /tmp/cADPaJUhBO line 1:␤------> 3my @a; for @a -> 7⏏5$i:D {}␤ok 00:00 140m␤»
gfldex std: my @a; for @a -> $i:D { $i.say } 15:42
camelia std 28329a7: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 140m␤»
gfldex even if what I do is silly, I still feel entitled to a proper error message :) 15:43
pink_mist what's the differences between std:, p6:, m:, r:, and whatever others there are?
moritz pink_mist: they run the code through different compilers
pink_mist: std is the standard grammar, which only does syntax checks
psch m: my @a = [Mu]; for @a -> :($i:D) {}
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot invoke this object␤»
gfldex m: - rakudo on moarvm (without jvm), r: rukudo with both moarvm and jvm (two outputs)
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/a7DxspFEgl␤Missing block (taken by some undeclared routine?)␤at /tmp/a7DxspFEgl:1␤------> 3- rakudo on moarvm (without jvm7⏏5), r: rukudo with both moarvm and jvm (t␤ expecting any of:␤ …»
moritz pink_mist: m is rakudo with the moarvm backend 15:44
pink_mist: j is rakudo with the jvm backend
15:44 JimmyZ_ joined
moritz pink_mist: p6 runs both j and m 15:44
JimmyZ_ github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...2015.09.md
pink_mist moritz: ah, thanks! =)
psch p6 probably would run other implementations, if some come up again
JimmyZ_ Stefan Seifert is niner
pink_mist so p6 is the same as r?
JimmyZ_ they are the same one😊 15:45
psch idly wonders what happened to the Perl 6 compiler in C++ that was hinted at some time ago...
TimToady p6 used to run niecza too till it monorotted
psch or was is C99, i forget
TimToady nothing surprising :) 15:46
vendethiel psch: arakne? ded
oops, arane. github.com/BizarreCake/Arane
moritz perlito: say 42 15:47
15:49 JimmyZ_ left, telex left, telex joined 15:50 telex left 15:52 telex joined
psch yeah, it seemed somewhat ambitious at the time already... :) 15:52
jnthn masak: Your finding that typed arrays work most nicely for you on attributes is a nice reflection of the fact that types are most naturally used in Perl 6 when you are trying to keep your own things internally consistent, rather than trying to export a strongly typed view to a language where people mostly expect to easily plug things together without much regard for such things. 15:53
moritz is always skeptical when announcements are made before working code is there
jnthn: which is contrary to the common opinions that interfaces/APIs are the place where APIs matter most 15:54
jnthn We've seen across the industry that when a language tries to make all interfaces strongly typed, people end up reaching for dynamically typed things to loosen coupling ("let's use web services between these two Java things!")
moritz: APIs are where APIs matter most? :) 15:55
Oh...was one of those meant to be types?
moritz s:last/APIs/types/
15:56 zacts joined
TimToady m: sub foo(Rat() *@rats) { say @rats }; foo 1,2,3 15:58
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/ldl7JjnzYi␤Slurpy positionals with type constraints are not supported.␤at /tmp/ldl7JjnzYi:1␤------> 3sub foo(Rat() *@rats7⏏5) { say @rats }; foo 1,2,3␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
jnthn suspects that one should work eventually
15:58 telex left
Skarsnik hm, how I can test if soemthing is an Array? (or more exactly something that act like an Array) since a Array attribute is a Positional 15:58
15:58 telex joined
TimToady why do you want to know? 15:59
moritz Skarsnik: fwiw the @ sigil type-checks against Positional
15:59 telex left
TimToady introspection is usually a code smell 15:59
moritz (and type checking is usually done with ~~, so "if $thing ~~ Positional { ... }") 16:00
16:00 telex joined, colomon left
nine m: class Bar::Foo { has $.foo-hoo; has $.bar; }; sub foo() { my @arr = 1, 2, 3; return Bar::Foo.new(bar => "2", foo-hoo => @arr); }; say foo().foo-hoo; 16:04
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«[1 2 3]␤»
nine Does anyone have an idea why this works flawlessly, while a simple return Panda::Ecosystem.new(statefile => "$pandadir/state", projectsfile => "$pandadir/projects.json", extra-statefiles => @extra-statefiles); fails with "Default constructor for 'Panda::Ecosystem' only takes named arguments"? 16:05
Skarsnik I can't find a concret example, but if I write soemthing stupid like print_stuff($a) {say 'fancyint' if $a ~~ Int; say 'fancyarray' if $a ~~ Array;} and pass it an array attribute from a class, does it fell back to Array?
dalek ast: f55aa8d | jnthn++ | S17-supply/syntax.t:
Tests for RT #126089.
psch m: sub f($a) { say $a.perl }; my $b = "foo"; my @c = ^5; f $b; f @c 16:08
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«"foo"␤[0, 1, 2, 3, 4]␤»
psch m: sub f($a) { say $a ~~ Positional }; my $b = "foo"; my @c = ^5; f $b; f @c
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«False␤True␤»
nine Oh, setting MVM_SPESH_DISABLE=1 or MVM_JIT_DISABLE=1 fixes the panda problem! 16:09
moritz oh, a JIT bug 16:10
vendethiel psch: well, if not ambitious, at least bound to be caught cheating "early on" 16:11
nine moritz: do you think it's an actual JIT bug or rather just something that has to be changed in the JIT, too after changing Perl6::Actions? 16:13
jnthn Anyone know why method Capture() {...} in List doing something other than just making a Capture whose positional bits are the List? 16:15
Well, the list elements
It's trying to do something with named args which I'm sure isn't how it's meant to work, and is also causing a bug.
16:15 mr_ron joined
jnthn m: (0 => 1, 2 => 3).Capture 16:16
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«This type cannot unbox to a native string␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/_ZcSpt6bLK:1␤␤»
jnthn That of note
m: (a => 1, b => 3).Capture.perl.say
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«\(:a(1), :b(3))␤»
jnthn m: (a => 1, b => 3).Capture.list.say
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«()␤»
nine jnthn: List.Capture is a weird mix of old List's .Capture and Parcel's 16:17
jnthn nine: Ah, OK
That explains something, thanks.
I think it wants to be a good bit simpler. I'm not sure what it'll break :)
nine jnthn: the named args handling is for "Fix binding a List to a Signature not recognizing Pairs as named args"
jnthn I don't know that it should... 16:18
What wanted it to, ooc?
nine Fixes :(:t($t), :m($m)) := (t => 1, m => 'a');
jnthn I *thought* you'd have to write that one \(t => 1, m => 'a') 16:19
nine In the next life I'm gonna add info about the fixed spec tests to every commit message but right now I'm glad that I spent as much time writing them as I did :)
jnthn That is, with a Capture literal
16:19 perl6_newbee left, raiph joined
jnthn m: my Any $a is default(3) 16:20
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/9OPR5WiAl0␤Default value '3' will never bind to a parameter of type Any␤at /tmp/9OPR5WiAl0:1␤------> 3my Any $a is default(3)7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
jnthn has a fix for that one
moritz also note that it says "parmater" in the error message
TimToady m: gist.github.com/TimToady/003e9c5c953de6014864 16:21
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«1..8␤1..4␤1..8␤»
jnthn moritz: Yeah, I noticed that too...
TimToady so...why does the middle one produce 1..4, and the last one 1..8?
jnthn TimToady: Probably something overlooked when implementing + 16:22
TimToady: Try with --optimize=off
nine m: sub foo() { return :a(1), :b(2); }; my ($a, $b); :(:b($b), :a($a)) := foo(); say $a, $b;
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«12␤»
TimToady simply adding a statement shouldn't change the value of args 16:23
yup, it's the optimizer
16:24 rangerprice joined
jnthn TimToady: Well, the big tip-off is we only consider single statement things in the static inliner 16:24
TimToady: I'll bet the compile-time bind analyzer was never taught about +
TimToady: So it thinks it's looking at a totally ordinary positional arg
TimToady I did some stuff in there, but maybe not enuff
16:24 telex left
jnthn Apparently... :) 16:25
16:25 telex joined, telex left
jnthn m: use Test; lives-ok { EVAL 'my Any $a is default(3)' }; 16:26
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«not ok 1 - ␤␤# Failed test at /tmp/iZbk4tcPUk line 1␤# Default value '3' will never bind to a parameter of type Any␤»
16:26 telex joined
vendethiel jnthn: should the static inliner be taught that unused values can be removed? 16:27
m: 1; # like this warning already knows
camelia rakudo-moar a3962b: OUTPUT«WARNINGS:␤Useless use of constant integer 1 in sink context (line 1)␤»
moritz that's not a variable :-)
16:27 colomon joined
vendethiel variable? 16:27
jnthn vendethiel: I thought it already was 16:28
moritz vendethiel: oh, I misread
vendethiel ;)
psch gist.github.com/peschwa/30639506d16f937f393d # help o.o
vendethiel jnthn: maybe there's a discount today, and you uncovered two bugs instead of one
dalek kudo/nom: a5ef61e | jnthn++ | src/core/Variable.pm:
Fix inverted type test in `is default(...)`.
 16:30
ast: fbd627c | jnthn++ | S02-names/is_default.t:
Test for RT #126104.
16:31 skids left
jnthn 16 to go before we knock a page off RT :) 16:32
moritz the R* release I'm preparing... is this our Christmas Preview? 16:33
jnthn Note that RT #126108 is about the bad error, so we can address it wiht that.
zefram++ files well-formed/analyzed bug reports 16:35
16:36 laouji left
bartolin yeah, zefram++ ( but there are so many of them /o\ ) 16:36
mprelude Anyone using AnyEvent::Twitter::Stream? If so, what Twitter lib do you use for... tweeting, rting, etc? Net::Twitter? 16:38
Wrong chan :D
16:38 laouji joined 16:40 Sqirrel joined 16:43 laouji left
jnthn m: sub MAIN() { map { say 'hi' }, ^2 } 16:43
camelia ( no output )
moritz jnthn: I'm looking into that one right now 16:44
dalek kudo/nom: f7c2a72 | moritz++ | src/core/Main.pm:
RT #126029: sink MAIN (and USAGE)
 16:45
jnthn I have a patch locally
oh, damm 16:46
moritz sorry :(
16:46 telex left
jnthn Well, I have a test? :) 16:46
moritz jnthn: push that, then :-)
16:47 colomon left
dalek ast: a1d59e2 | jnthn++ | S06-other/main.t:
Test for RT #126029.
 16:48
16:48 itsme_ joined, colomon joined, telex joined
jnthn Went for a test that didn't end up needing to sleep :) 16:48
Your patch looks like mine except I didn't think of USAGE
moritz jnthn: ok, so it wasn't totally sunk (sic) effort :-) 16:49
jnthn ;P
16:52 itsme_ left 16:53 frodwith left
dalek ast: 1db8547 | usev6++ | S03-feeds/basic.t:
Remove dubious test

S06 currently says:
   Because feeds are defined as lazy pipes, a chain of
   feeds may not begin and end with the same array without
   some kind of eager sequence point. That is, this isn't
   guaranteed to work:
   @data <== grep { $_ % 2 } <== @data;
   [...]
   Conjecture: if the cloning process eagerly duplicates @data,
   it could be forced to work. Not clear if this is desirable,
   since ordinary clones just clone the container, not the value.
  'Is not guaranteed to work' sounds rather weak and does not
justify to test for the code given to die.
Also, the code currently lives and the test only succeeded because @data wasn't visible within 'eval-dies-ok'.		 16:54
vendethiel rip dalek?
bartolin oops. but it looks like he survived. dalek++ 16:55
vendethiel dalek++ :D
vendethiel is always happy to see MAIN fixes
jnthn m: while 0 { my $_ } 16:57
camelia rakudo-moar a5ef61: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'value'␤»
jnthn has figured that one out
moritz what should an empty block return? ()? 16:59
17:00 larion left
jnthn moritz: I'd assumed Empty (which is the empty Slip) 17:00
vendethiel m: my \a = ().Slip; say (1, \a, 2); 17:01
camelia rakudo-moar a5ef61: OUTPUT«(1 \(()) 2)␤»
dalek kudo/nom: a328aab | jnthn++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
Fix compiler explosion in `while 0 { my $_ }`.
 17:02
ast: 406c27b | jnthn++ | S04-statements/while.t:
Test for RT #125876.
 17:03
17:04 telex left, telex joined
dalek ecs: 3f0277c | moritz++ | S04-control.pod:
S04: Fix pre-GLR-ism

isn't it wonderful how much simpler this passage becomes through the GLR?		 17:05
17:05 colomon left
xinming_ Anyone here knows what is the best template engine for perl6 for now? 17:06
Or, if there is a template engine that is is mostly close to perl6 language itself.
That'll be good.
jnthn Well, there's a few Saturday patches. Should probably get back to resting myself from the busy last few days... :)
jnthn also needs to blog soon... :) 17:07
o/
17:08 colomon joined 17:12 xinming_ is now known as xinming
dalek ast: 05eed96 | usev6++ | S02-types/subset.t:
Replace test using 'eval-lives-ok' with more specific test

Also avoid conflict with other subsets used in test file.		 17:23
17:24 laouji joined
moritz m: say (EVAL ().Slip.perl).^name 17:24
camelia rakudo-moar a328aa: OUTPUT«List␤»
moritz Slip.perl is RONG
if I change empty blocks to return Empty instead of Nil, surprisingly few spectests fail 17:25
17:28 laouji left 17:34 zakharyas joined 17:39 laouji joined 17:43 laouji left 17:47 telex left 17:48 telex joined 17:49 xinming left 17:51 xinming joined 17:56 rangerprice left 18:04 kaare_ left 18:09 laouji joined 18:12 telex left, telex joined, telex left 18:13 laouji left
dalek ast: c48ef39 | usev6++ | S04-phasers/end.t:
Unfudge/rewrite some tests for END phaser

  * use 'lives-ok' with EVAL instead of 'eval-lives-ok'
  * one 'todo' test only failed because $a was not visible within 'eval-lives-ok'
  * the second 'todo' test needed a rewrite with 'is_run'		 18:14
18:14 telex joined 18:16 zakharyas left 18:26 telex left 18:28 telex joined 18:34 Peter_R joined
lizmat nine: thanks for a3962b05480453c36fc4897a , specifically the thinko in line 413 18:46
DrForr waves to lizmat.
lizmat however, I don't think the fix in line 416 is correct
lizmat waves back to DrForr!
DrForr Must be getting better, back on IRC :) 18:47
lizmat nine: as we've done all lines that we wanted, we indicated the handle should be closed, so even if there are more lines in the file, we don't want them (ever) I would think
:close to lines means: close when you're done
DrForr: good to see you online again, you *must* be getting better! :-) 18:48
or you have some contraption that allows you to type / see your screen while laying down :-)
either way, an improvement over before :-)
DrForr Both :) 18:49
moritz imagines a transparent mattress with a screen under it 18:50
18:53 leont joined 18:54 woolfy joined
moritz m: say slip().perl 18:54
camelia rakudo-moar a328aa: OUTPUT«()␤»
18:55 woolfy left
moritz locally I've added multi method perl(Slip:D: |) { callsame() ~ '.Slip' } 18:55
and now I get ().Slip.Slip as the answer :/
that's a bit too slip(er)y for me 18:57
same when I change it to self.List::perl(|c) ~ '.Slip'; 18:59
dalek kudo/nom: 032dd7f | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
suppress bogus inlining of +args
TimToady jnthn: took all morning, but I found the bug 19:00
it wasn't something I neglected to do, but something I just did rwong
ShimmerFairy TimToady: I can't place my finger on it, but something about that return statement seems almost... repetitive. :P 19:02
TimToady yeah, well, it's nqp 19:05
19:08 telex left 19:10 telex joined
grondilu nqp: say([||] 1, 0); 19:12
pink_mist that seems to have worked less than well 19:13
grondilu no reduce metaoperator in nqp anyway. Nvm
19:13 camelia joined
camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "say([||] 1"␤ at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:519 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic:105)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:921 (/home/camelia/rakudo-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/nqp.moarvm:comp_unit:872)␤ from gen/…» 19:15
..nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 193.␤exec (./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p /tmp/tmpfile) failed: No such file or directory␤Server error occurred! Closing Link: ns1.niner.name (Quit: camelia)␤Lost connect…»
..nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«#␤# There is insufficient memory for the Java Runtime Environment to continue.␤# pthread_getattr_np␤# An error report file with more information is saved as:␤# /tmp/jvm-13006/hs_error.log␤»
19:15 ChanServ sets mode: +v camelia 19:16 kaare_ joined
pink_mist so jvm ran out of memory from that? 0_o 19:16
19:19 braintwist joined
ShimmerFairy nah, it's because nqp-p is still something the bot tries to do that it left for a moment. 19:20
19:25 LonelyGM joined
psch nqp-j: say("hi") 19:27
camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)#␤# There is insufficient memory for the Java Runtime Environment to continue.␤# pthread_getattr_np␤# An error report file with more information is saved as:␤# /tmp/jvm-17024/hs_error.log␤»
psch nqp-j is always out of memory... :)
ShimmerFairy ah. nqp-p didn't help though :P 19:29
19:29 telex left 19:30 telex joined, LonelyGM left
lizmat hmmm... S04-phasers/pre-post.t fails for me with "Lexical '$_' already declared" at compile time 19:32
19:35 mr_ron left
TimToady always fakes me out, I think my test run is done because my fan spools down, but it's just all the S17 stuff twiddling its thumbs 19:36
19:38 colomon left
ShimmerFairy I've noticed some tests with memory allocation problems on my machine, I'll go report them against MVM now that I'm reminded. 19:39
lizmat perhaps not running the spectest alphabetically could work ?
TimToady: ^^^
19:39 nebuchad` joined 19:40 nebuchad` is now known as nebuchadnezzar
lizmat is there a reason why Str doesn't have a 'spurt' method ? 19:43
"foo".spurt($filename) # for easy writing a string to a file ?
19:44 [Sno] left
pink_mist good idea 19:44
ShimmerFairy lizmat: give IO back the slurp method, and I think there's more argument for it :P
timotimo well, it could go at the end of a long chain of methods
those are kinda common
lizmat "t/spectest.data".IO.lines(:!chomp).pick(*).join.spurt("wop") # my use case
jdv79 isn't spurt more related to the IO thing than the content
yoleaux 03:32Z <zostay> jdv79: IO::Socket::INET is too specific, but using the Raw IO is completely the wrong solution always and the alternative is to be implementation-specific, which might as well not even be in the standard
dalek kudo/nom: 039de8f | TimToady++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
minmax now one-arg
 19:45
kudo/nom: 83d7248 | TimToady++ | src/core/metaops.pm:
reductions now one-arg
19:45 [Sno] joined
dalek ast: 8cd1edb | TimToady++ | / (2 files):
reductions are now under one-arg rule
 19:45
jdv79 zostay: not sure i agree but ok
ShimmerFairy I never _really_ understood the rename of slurp to slurp-rest for the method form, and it still feels like a bad thing to have happened.
dalek kudo/nom: eeed6bb | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
lines(:close) means close the handle, always
 19:46
jdv79 uh, what is slurp-rest?
TimToady read-to-end 19:47
but don't close
slurp implies closing 19:48
jdv79 so slurp still exists?
i haven't updated in a while
ShimmerFairy TimToady: while I do understand slurp-rest being "from current point to end" (and apparently the not-closing thing), it felt like an inconsistency was made when .slurp was renamed, and &slurp was left alone 19:49
(even though they do behave different, AIUI)
TimToady it's a foolish inconsistency
er, however you say that...
very bikesheddy, as far as I am concerned 19:50
jdv79 "rest" doesn't jump out at me as not closing. and as for from cur pos to end - that's the sort of thing that's implied with a lot of IO operations, no?
seems wonky but ok
why not paramaterize that sort of stuff more clearly
ShimmerFairy TimToady: yeah, admittedly it's not that bad, I just still see it from when the change was made, and it felt odd to not be able to do $string.slurp like you could slurp($string) anymore
TimToady if you want to be consistent, rename .slurp to .slurp-all-and-close, but that's a bit long
lizmat well, since I've given up anything IO related design wise, I have not much interest in participating in further bikeshedding this 19:51
so whatever you guys decide, is fine by me
TimToady has bigger fish to fry 19:52
timotimo bon appetit
TimToady like whether listop map should be onearg instead of flattening
19:52 kaare_ left
jdv79 lizmat: so newio is dead in the water? 19:52
ShimmerFairy lizmat: you may be able to do .&spurt at the end of that method call chain (depends on how the args are ordered) 19:53
lizmat jdv79: am afraid so: at some point I may revisit the branch and see if I can salvage some from it
timotimo m: say &spurt.^signature
camelia rakudo-moar 032dd7: OUTPUT«Method 'signature' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/kXnsaZpflO:1␤␤»
timotimo m: say &spurt.signature 19:54
camelia rakudo-moar 032dd7: OUTPUT«(|)␤»
lizmat but I've gotten so much flak from it, that I got completely de-funned there
timotimo m: say &spurt.candidates
camelia rakudo-moar 032dd7: OUTPUT«(sub spurt (|) { #`(Sub|57331736) ... })␤»
timotimo hum.
ShimmerFairy lizmat: does the newio branch of specs give a good overview of what your goals were? I wasn't around when you were working on it, so I don't know anything about it.
jdv79 can we not muster a new torch bearer to bring it home?!
lizmat newio turned out to be -NoFun to me
ShimmerFairy timotimo: if 'sub spurt' has a first argument of the Str to spurt, then you'd be able to use $string.&spurt(...)
timotimo aye 19:55
lizmat &spurt has the filename as the first param
jdv79 lizmat: is it worth completing at this point?
timotimo i wanted to find out
obviously we'll need a &trups for this
lizmat ShimmerFairy: there's also a newio branch in specs 19:56
in which I described what I wanted to achieve / largely achieved
ShimmerFairy lizmat: that's the branch I asked about :) . I'll be sure to check that out when I have the chance.
19:57 lichtkind joined 20:00 laouji joined 20:01 telex left
dalek ast: 8e7418f | TimToady++ | S03-metaops/reduce.t:
untodo [=:=] et al. that now work after onearg
 20:01
20:02 telex joined
TimToady multi sub map(&code, Whatever) { (1..Inf).map(&code) } <-- who ordered that? 20:04
and why 1-based?
ShimmerFairy TimToady: I think we decided that @list.map(*) was useless not too long ago, the sub form should probably go too :) 20:05
oh, that's not quite the same thing. But still.
m: say *.map({say $_ }) 20:06
camelia rakudo-moar 032dd7: OUTPUT«WhateverCode.new␤»
ShimmerFairy ^ should do that, as far as I'm concerned
TimToady m: say map * + 0, * 20:07
camelia rakudo-moar 032dd7: OUTPUT«(...)␤»
TimToady m: .say for map * + 0, *
camelia rakudo-moar 032dd7: OUTPUT«(timeout)1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤11␤12␤13␤14␤15␤16␤17␤18␤19␤20␤21␤22␤23␤24␤25␤26␤27␤28␤29␤30␤31␤32␤33␤34␤35␤36␤37␤38␤39␤40␤41␤42␤43␤44␤45␤46␤47␤48␤49␤50␤51␤5…»
TimToady that's just kinda bizarre 20:08
ShimmerFairy I agree. I don't see why map should have a shortcut for what's basically an infinite loop.
20:09 diana_olhovik_ joined
TimToady seems like it would be much more straightforward to say 1..Inf when you mean that 20:10
20:11 telex left
TimToady doubtless it will come back around to being my fault somehow :) 20:12
lizmat TimToady: if anybody's to blame for that one, that would be me
20:12 telex joined
lizmat and as to why 1-based, I would not know the answer to that :-( 20:12
I think it dates from a time where a gather loop {} did not work in the settings (is what I vaguely remember) 20:13
afaics, it can be killed with fire...
jdv79 where can i find out more about this quote "as usual, the presence of a named option is a design smell" 20:14
lizmat
.oO( who switched on the zefram bot? :-)
20:16 mr_ron joined 20:17 rindolf left
timotimo downloaded more zefRAM 20:17
20:18 rindolf joined 20:19 laouji left
jdv79 i don't understand that quote 20:19
lizmat jdv79: fwiw, I would like to see an explanation of that quote as well :-)
labster moritz: I merged the File::Directory::Tree change. 20:22
yoleaux 11:14Z <moritz> labster: any chance you could merge github.com/labster/p6-file-directo...ree/pull/5 soonish? It would help with the Rakudo Star release
20:23 kanishka left, laouji joined 20:24 darutoko left
jdv79 esp since slurp-rest has adverbs or named options or whatever you want to call them for other stuff. wut. 20:26
i am starting to imagine why newio was unfun. i glossed over it while it was going on so didn't notice. 20:27
20:28 laouji left
ShimmerFairy jdv79: where did you get that quote from? 20:32
dalek kudo/nom: a98ce40 | TimToady++ | src/core/Mu.pm:
Add .self as an identity method

So people aren't so tempted to hardwire * as an identity map function.		 20:34
kudo/nom: d9c21e9 | TimToady++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
simplify listop map dispatch to a single one-arg
kudo/nom: 244b7b4 | TimToady++ | src/core/Str.pm:
listop map no longer flattens
btyler_ hi folks. in the category of "evil but useful tricks", can a perl6 role add methods to the consuming class/object in a dynamic way? here's an example in perl 5: gist.github.com/kanatohodets/aff43...igarole-pm 20:35
that is, run code to generate a bunch of methods
jdv79 i dug into the slurp-rest hits from irc log 20:37
masak jdv79: trying to understand the quote, I think it's about over-configuring, and I also think I have an example. 20:38
jdv79 ShimmerFairy: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2014-11-07#i_9622385
ShimmerFairy jdv79: in my experience, it's only a big problem if it ends up a poor reimplementation of the type system; that's why we ended up with NFC, NFD, etc. types for normalization, instead of :nfc adverbs on everything :) 20:39
20:39 diakopter left
ShimmerFairy (though that's surely not the only time it's an issue to use nameds, just the only time I've personally encountered it being problematic) 20:40
TimToady we had a long history of trying to customize operators like range using adverbs, and it almost always meant there was some other better way to do it 20:41
masak jdv79: .roll used to be .pick(:replace)
jdv79: but having it as a separate method is clearly better
jdv79: as an example of operators with adverbs, there's :by on infix:<..> -- but it turned out to be vastly better to have that kind of stepping magic as a separate operator infix:<...> 20:42
TimToady in linguistic terms, having options often means you're trying to stretch a metaphor too far
20:44 telex left 20:46 telex joined 20:47 rurban joined, diakopter joined
jdv79 tahnks 20:54
*thanks ^H
20:58 TEttinger joined 21:01 laouji joined
jdv79 I'll just restate a bit and then drop it. As someone who just learned of slurp-rest i was immediately confused by the name and needed docs. if it was just slurp with a close param with sensible default(s) I probably would not need to look it up. but i'm guessing i'm missing some things that would make that rename make more sense. 21:01
masak jdv79: all I remember is that at some point we got more discriminating, and started considering a full-file slurp to be different from a slurp on a filehandle that had already been partially consumed. 21:06
jdv79: implementing the latter as a flag/named may or may not have been considered, I don't know.
21:07 laouji left
lizmat vaguely remembers it being considered, but that may be confabulation 21:09
21:13 AlexDaniel joined
masak the one I *would* sign up on as being a definitely design/code smell, is when the API ends up looking like :!someflag 21:14
that is, if the default of the named is True, and you have to pass in False to override the default 21:15
21:15 dnmfarrell joined
lizmat lines(:!chomp) anyone ? 21:15
dalek ast/return_outside_routine: 38fdf08 | usev6++ | S04-statements/return.t:
Use 'run' to test for returning outside of routine

We can't test for 'Attempt to return outside of any Routine' with our toolchain from Test.pm or Test::Util.		 21:17
lizmat masak: would you consider lines(:!chomp) a code smell ?
masak lizmat: yes.
TimToady lines(:pristine)
masak keep in mind, though, that "code smell" does not mean "destroy! destroy!" 21:18
it means we should keep on the lookout for a nicer factoring
lizmat I guess it came from hysterical raisins
21:18 rindolf left
lizmat I mean, in p5 you would almost *always* do a .chomp on whatever you got 21:18
masak yes, that's what I thought when you just showed it, that the term 'chomp' is historical
lizmat lines(:no-chomp) ? 21:19
masak it just moves the bump around the waterbed :)
lizmat I mean, that would just change the spelling :-)
masak yep
jdv79 no, its a much larger bump cause now you have the possibilitiy of a double negative which can be highly confusing 21:20
masak TimToady++ is on the right track with :pristine, but 'pristine' doesn't immediately ring true/simple/fitting 21:21
jnthn btyler_: Didn't see anyone answer your roles question, so: yes, any code you write in the role body will run at role composition time, and you can use the generic ::?CLASS to at stuff
*add
btyler_ oh, yay. so ::?CLASS.^add_method presumably
leont The nice thing about chomp is that it will actually well "does it do this action"
btyler_ I'll give that a shot, thanks!
leont :pristine is its own kind of negative, by meaning "don't do some action")
masak m: role B { say "run at role composition time: {::?CLASS}" }; class C does B {}; class D does B {}
camelia rakudo-moar 244b7b: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'collisions'␤»
21:22 diakopter left
masak ...hm. 21:22
btyler_ yeah, I was getting that error and assuming it was just me doing something silly
jnthn m: role R { ::?CLASS.^add_method(<foo bar baz>.pick, method () { }) }; class C1 does R { }; class C2 does R { }; say C1.^methods; say C2.^methods;
camelia rakudo-moar 244b7b: OUTPUT«(<anon>)␤(<anon>)␤»
jnthn hah :)
masak jnthn: are we doing something silly?
21:22 silug joined
jnthn m: role R { ::?CLASS.^add_method(<foo bar baz>.pick, method () { }) }; class C1 does R { }; class C2 does R { }; say C1.^method_table; say C2.^method_table; 21:22
camelia rakudo-moar 244b7b: OUTPUT«foo => <anon>␤baz => <anon>␤»
jnthn m: role R { ::?CLASS.^add_method(<foo bar baz>.pick, method () { }) }; class C1 does R { }; class C2 does R { }; say C1.^method_table; say C2.^method_table;
camelia rakudo-moar 244b7b: OUTPUT«foo => <anon>␤foo => <anon>␤»
jnthn There you go :)
masak jnthn: what about the 'collisions' thing above?
jnthn masak: Expecting .gist to work before the target class is composed, then running onto the bug already in RT where somehow instead of reporting an error correctly we complain about collisions. 21:23
masak aha.
TimToady wonders, looking at sort, why signature (&cmp, +values) is not considered a better match than (+values)
jnthn m: multi m($a, *@b) { say 1 }; multi m(*@b) { say 2 }; m(1); m(1, 2); 21:24
camelia rakudo-moar 244b7b: OUTPUT«Ambiguous call to 'm'; these signatures all match:␤:($a, *@b)␤:(*@b)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/lvM0TEeofx:1␤␤»
jnthn TimToady: You want the first to win in that case?
TimToady if it doesn't break something else or slow things down, seems like a good idea 21:25
jnthn I can't tell you if it'll break anything because I already surpassed the point where I can understand the arity-based sorting rules in multi-dispatch. :/
TimToady in some sense the first parameter is binding tighter by definition
jnthn Probably 'cus I made a bunch of reasonable-sounding reqeusts work and now I don't understand the result. :) 21:26
TimToady me too :P
21:27 BenGoldberg joined, telex left
jnthn We probably need to simplify things a bit :) 21:27
My gut feeling is "yeah, that should work", but given my following my gut already got us the current impl... :) 21:28
21:28 diakopter joined, telex joined
dalek kudo/nom: c1af489 | lizmat++ | src/core/Iterator.pm:
count-only doesn't take any params
 21:28
kudo/nom: 8158cb5 | lizmat++ | src/core/IO/Handle.pm:
Re-implement lines(:count) using iter.count-only
kudo/nom: c5407d2 | lizmat++ | src/core/Seq.pm:
Make Seq.elems call iterator.count-only

Provide a shortcut when we want an iterator to just find out the number of elems and nothing else (think "words".IO.lines.elems)
kudo/nom: ffa8ea2 | lizmat++ | src/core/array_slice.pm:
Prevent [*-1] from consuming the iterator too soon
kudo/nom: 8c3980f | TimToady++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
attempt to de-flatten sort
 21:30
lizmat jnthn: you may want to look at c5407d2 and ffa8ea2
jnthn ffa8ea2 concerns me a little, yeah
Like, I don't get why it's needed 21:31
lizmat jnthn: it used to do the .cache inside Seq.elems before
jnthn ah
oh, it's AT-POS we forward, we don't have an alternative set of postcircumfix candidates
lizmat otherwise the .elems will consume the iterator before we can get at the underlying seq
jnthn Yeah
OK, now I understand why it's needed 21:32
lizmat but it should allow for all other iterators to provide a fast shortcut for just counting
it makes "words".IO.lines.elems about 2.5 times as fast
TimToady only about 167 more *@ and **@ slurpies to audit in the core, sigh... 21:33
lizmat jnthn: and no spectest breakage
TimToady plus the places with hand-rolled one-arg that could use +args instead 21:35
BenGoldberg TimToady, on that sort patch, why not let the dispatcher do the work? Something like: multi sub sort(Callable \cmp, +values) { values.sort(cmp) }; multi sub sort(+values) { values.sort }; 21:36
jnthn lizmat: I'm fine with it for now, I think :) 21:37
mattp__ is there any 6guts / p6weekly coming any time soon? its been a while :)
jnthn mattp__: 6guts updates will resume shortly; I wasn't too well for a while :( 21:38
(and spent what energies I had on getting stuff done rather than blogging) 21:39
TimToady BenGoldberg: doesn't work; that's what jnthn++ and I were just discussing
21:41 rurban left
BenGoldberg reads the irclog... 21:43
What about some sort of: multi sub sort(AnyThingOtherThan(Callable) \not_a_cmp, +values) { ... }?
mattp__ jnthn: given the past tense glad youre feeling better atleast :) 21:44
jnthn mattp__: Well, better in the "improved" sense than the "totally well" sense, but it's progress. :)
jnthn wants to get back to writing weekly reports, anyways. 21:45
21:46 dnmfarrell left
lizmat mattp__: writing a P6W has become a daunting task 21:48
timotimo seems to have worked on it: not sure of the status right now
timotimo oh 21:53
that's right
21:53 spider-mario left
timotimo last status: 21:53
wordpress was like "blogpost, OM NOM NOM GONE!" 21:54
timo was like: *flips table*
BenGoldberg Speaking of things I'm seeing in the irc log before I joined today... IIRC, p5 started with a chop operator, which removed and returned the last byte of a string, regardless of what that byte was. The idea of chopping off the end of string kinda makes english-language sense. chomp was added shortly after, to remove only the current input record separator; unlike chop, it was idempotent; but since it's task was so similar, it was
given a similar-but-cuter name.
lizmat FWIW, I think chomp logic should really live in the VM 21:55
as an attribute of the PIO
and it should be able to handle other line-endings as well :-)
21:56 telex left
BenGoldberg To super-super-summarize, I think maybe p6's version of chomp should be $:retain-record-separator or $:remove-record-separator 21:56
lizmat but I'm pretty sure jnthn agrees and has it somewhere down on his list :-)
jdv79 timotimo: you trust a browser as a text editor? 21:57
jnthn suspects once he's done the multi-dim array stuff, I/O related bits will be on his plate
lizmat wishes jnthn much strength
lizmat feels we need a bit of a GIOR
21:58 telex joined
jnthn IO is one of those things I've continually hoped someone more experienced than me would take on... 21:59
timotimo jdv79: it has a recovery function
jnthn Concurrency and NFG both used to be in that category, though :P
pink_mist jnthn: maybe those more experienced than you are experienced enough that they hope the same thing :P 22:00
jnthn pink_mist: Probably, yeah. It's a thorny area. :)
Thankfully, it's 2015, and the list of platforms you have to care about supporting to achieve >99% market penetration is really short :) 22:01
uh, market penetration ain't the phrase I wanted...but anwyays :)
lizmat well, if someone would actually look at what I wrote in the newio branch of specs 22:04
and we could reach some consensus about that, then maybe I could be convinced to take it up again
TimToady gee, when I take flatttening off the any/or/one/none, the flattening tests flunk, who'd'a thunk?
lizmat gets a thunking feeling 22:05
jnthn lizmat: I think there's a bunch of lower-level things too
lizmat well, yes, like input-line-sep and output-line-sep
jnthn lizmat: But yeah, looking at what you did in newio would certainly be part of what I want to do.
lizmat most important thing was really getting rid of IO::Spec, I think 22:06
and $*SPEC
using / as a dir separator basically works everywhere
I don't see Perl 6 running on VMS / EBCDIC any time soon 22:07
as long as open can take a "raw" argument for opening files, I think any exotic file systems can export their own logic where needed
geekosaur <USR.LOCAL.BIN>PERL6.EXE :p (tops20 4 lyfe) 22:08
TimToady so, how much code actually depends on junction listops flattening, ka na... 22:09
geekosaur well, probably more like SYS:<USR.LOCAL.BIN>PERL6.EXE
leont Windows sometimes cares about the directory separator, but not that often 22:11
timotimo did we get somewhere with regards to the action class/instance not residing in a dynamic variable? 22:12
masak 'night, #perl6
timotimo gnite masak
22:13 Skarsnik left
timotimo or did we get an approximate measurement of how that'd improve things? 22:14
22:20 mr_ron left
TimToady I don't think anyone has worked on that 22:22
we'd probably get a bigger performance win from a better dynvar cache in general; getting rid of $*ACTIONS is more of a correctness thing to my mind 22:23
jnthn It's one of those things on my "stuff to do it I want something fun to do" :)
TimToady for my part, I'm concentrating on language definition right now, not performance
timotimo oh, when we call into "foreign" grammars, the ACTIONS may wrongly be "derived"? 22:24
TimToady the current language should be completely encapsulated in the cursor, because then it's portable outside the current dynamic scope
timotimo mhm 22:25
jdv79 is Pod::To::HTML failing tests on install for anyone else?
TimToady currently I'm trying to bias our listops more toward one-arg instead of flattening, except when a good argument can be made for flattening by default 22:26
right now, it's kinda 50/50 whether something flattens or not; I'd rather have the exception list be all on one side 22:27
lizmat takes a long nap 22:28
TimToady so at the moment, junctional listops are on the block 22:31
_itz 22:33
timotimo 22:34
_itz Always Winter, Never Christmas </cslewis> :P
BenGoldberg Unless you're in the southern hemisphere ;) 22:35
22:36 jack_rabbit_ left, pdcawley joined 22:37 Mans joined
Mans Tress 22:37
22:37 colomon joined, leont left
Mans Title hack 22:38
Titulo hack01
22:38 Mans left
jnthn On the "defining what will 6.christmas be" effort, I decided to make a list of things in the design docs that I'm pretty sure we're *not* going to have in 6.christmas. gist.github.com/jnthn/040f4502899d39b2cbb4 22:41
22:41 colomon left, espadrine joined
jnthn (Partly so if TimToady++ feels we really must explore one or more of these sooner rather than later, I know to have it in mind.) 22:43
22:45 telex left
jnthn Time for some sleep o/ 22:45
22:46 telex joined
TimToady o/ 22:47
dalek kudo/nom: f8ee5f6 | TimToady++ | src/core/Junction.pm:
onearg any/all/one/none listops
 22:49
ast: 445fb73 | TimToady++ | S03-junctions/ (2 files):
onearg any/all/one/none
22:50 mprelude left 22:51 dj_goku left 22:53 mr_ron joined, colomon joined
_itz sue-- # activating zefram bug finding bit 22:55
^ bot
geekosaur makes note not to start using p6 actively... 22:57
<-- human fuzzer
23:04 diana_olhovik_ left 23:07 cognominal left, jack_rabbit_ joined
vendethiel m: say so any (1, 2) eqv any($[1, 2]) 23:10
camelia rakudo-moar 8c3980: OUTPUT«False␤»
vendethiel TimToady: shouldn't there be such a test, with only one itemized arg? 23:11
mst geekosaur: pretty sure I'll end up doing the same thing ;) 23:26
TimToady m: say so any (1, 2) eqv any(1,2))
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/if1wmkRaWf␤Unexpected closing bracket␤at /tmp/if1wmkRaWf:1␤------> 3say so any (1, 2) eqv any(1,2)7⏏5)␤»
TimToady m: say so any (1, 2) eqv any(1,2)
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«False␤»
TimToady m: say so any (1, 2) eqv 2
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«False␤»
TimToady m: say any (1,2) 23:27
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«any(1, 2)␤»
TimToady m: say so any (1, 2) == 2 23:28
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady m: say so any (1, 2) === 2
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«False␤»
TimToady gah, looks like someone borked === and eqv on junctions :(
23:31 telex left 23:32 telex joined
TimToady m: say so any(1, 2) === 2 23:33
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady or...not...hmm...
23:40 telex left 23:42 telex joined
dalek kudo-star-daily: 0b00557 | coke++ | log/ (2 files):
today (automated commit)
 23:44
kudo-star-daily: 87e5547 | coke++ | log/ (10 files):
today (automated commit)
rl6-roast-data: 2ef68c2 | coke++ | / (9 files):
today (automated commit)
[Coke] waves from the highway and starts backlogging. 23:46
I agree with Ovid; We already make allowances for sloppy types with IntStr. Why not a RatInt. 23:49
(Sorry, with CurtisPoe++)
geekosaur yes, that's part of my cognitive dissonance with that issue 23:50
23:51 mr_ron left 23:58 geekosaur is now known as eviltwin_b, eviltwin_b is now known as allbery_b, allbery_b is now known as geekosaur
labster m: my role foo { }; say foo.new() 23:59
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«foo.new␤»
labster roles can have instances?

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!