»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, std:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by masak on 12 May 2015.
pink_mist I think they're automagically inflated to a class if you try? maybe? 00:00
dalek ast: 87bf26b | TimToady++ | S03-junctions/misc.t:
actually test onearg semantics on junctions
 00:02
ast: 9079e5d | TimToady++ | S03-operators/ (2 files):
junctional listops don't flatten now
BenGoldberg m: my role foo { }; say foo.new().WHAT 00:03
camelia rakudo-moar f8ee5f: OUTPUT«(foo)␤»
dalek kudo/nom: 885cf27 | TimToady++ | src/core/Junction.pm:
do onearg correctly on junctional listops
kudo/nom: 7173d13 | TimToady++ | src/core/operators.pm:
logic infixes shouldn't flatten
 00:05
TimToady there's a difference: IntStr etc. are for when the user has no option but to use a textual representation of a number, whereas there is no Rat trap here, just an overspecified target compared to the source 00:07
[Coke] masak said many times that ints were not rats... but didn't say why the type system ended up in such a way that it wasn't. 00:09
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[Coke] That might help the medicine go down, anyway. 00:16
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TimToady well, we might be able to work something out that can do information-preserving autoconversions anyway 00:21
it's really binding that has to be super strict
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mspo just got rakudo-star 2015.07 pkgsrc package working (I think) 00:35
ShimmerFairy [Coke], TimToady: my guess is that class inheritance is all about "lemme take this, and add more features to it!", where mathematical types are more about "lemme take this domain, and restrict it a bit"
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mspo not sure if I should make lang/perl6 just point to this pkg or just rename it to perl6 or what 00:36
ShimmerFairy So 'subset's are perhaps more suited for a mathematical version of the numeric hierarchy, however they're not featureful enough to do stuff like subclassing can.
(in more concrete terms, if we made Int.isa(Rat), then we'd have to cut off functionality inherited from the Rat class that doesn't make sense for Int, which would most likely cause a number of issues) 00:39
TimToady right, so we're not gonna do it that way, if we do anything 00:41
mspo anyone else doing any os packaging? 00:42
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ShimmerFairy the Right Solution™ for mathematicians would be to invent a new HOW for restrictive inheritance .oO(use Math::SubsetsPlus) 00:43
dnmfarrell Is it still ok to use .pm6 file endings for Perl 6 class files? (but not .t6 right?)
TimToady right
ShimmerFairy dnmfarrell: of course, in fact I would strongly recommend file extensions with a 6 in them :) 00:44
(except for .t :P)
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dnmfarrell Ah that was going to be my next question, whether there was a consensus that .pm6 was to be preferred over .pm 00:44
TimToady free advertising :)
dnmfarrell haha 00:45
mst plus .pm6 uncomplicates quite a lot of things
ShimmerFairy dnmfarrell: it's my own personal opinion that Rakudo has made a big mistake using .pm in src/core :P
dnmfarrell but .t6 files are not executed by Panda I think ...
or maybe it's just prove
mst yeah, the cargo culting of .pm from rakudo core is really upsetting
pink_mist dnmfarrell: right, nobody suggested using .t6 =) 00:46
dnmfarrell aright thanks for the info everybody!
mst unfortunately, doing the rename with outstanding branches would be a colossal pain in the derriere
ShimmerFairy If it wasn't going to be perceived as even more useless than normal bikesheds (which I'm sure it would be), I'd be tempted to just make a big commit and do *.pm -> *.pm6 in one fell swoop :P
mst I think the problem that somebody noticed was that if you don't 'use v6;' and use .pm as an extension, static tooling gets utterly confused 00:47
ShimmerFairy 'use v6' is another thing I heard hasn't caught on that much (just what I heard), so eek 00:48
mst while I think it would probably be cruel to require it, I thing having linters complain loudly that you should be either using .pm6 or .pm w/'use v6;' would be a net win 00:49
labster use v6; convinces my editor that the file is SQL.
pink_mist hahah
mst right, because mysql
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mst could be worse. could be cassandra. 00:50
pink_mist I think I saw somewhere that github (for their code stats) assumes all .pm files are perl 6 unless there's a use statement for a perl5 version in them ... not sure if that's still true though
ShimmerFairy Maybe if we did a more gradual renaming of files, starting with most-stable core files, it wouldn't be such a problem :P
mst I think core should be 'as correct as possible' in such things, ideally
since people are totally going to cargo cult whatever it does
right or wrong 00:51
mst is applying Alias' "everything your users do wrong with your software is your fault" principle here
ShimmerFairy afk 00:54
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dnmfarrell so with vim to get Perl6 syntax highlighting, you can: use *.pm6 extension, include a syntax directive "# vim: ft=perl6" or have project vimrc. Any other methods people use? 01:00
mst it -should- detect 'use v6;' but apparently that's rarely used enough that things often don't 01:01
mst prefers vi, and hence doesn't have syntax highlighting at all
dnmfarrell ah yeah, let me test that
my vim doesn't seem to do that (automatically). But it would be easy to add a "use v6;" check in the /vimrc 01:02
mst TimToady: oh, btw, perl5's thing where if it detects a non-perl #! it re-execs is really useful 01:03
TimToady: though people have a tendency to look at me really funny when they realise half of my t/*.t start with #!/usr/bin/env tclsh 01:04
dnmfarrell haha
mst is getting steadily more polyglot as time goes by 01:06
TimToady just incorporates all other languages into Perl... 01:07
vendethiel mst++ # tricking people into believing you're writing Perl, when really you're writing Tcl *g* 01:08
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mst TimToady: oh, I'll almost certainly end up writing a Tcl grammar eventually ;) 01:10
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japhb jnthn++ # nope.md, both for intrinsic value and because of the excellent choice of filename 01:16
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dalek kudo/nom: 1b09de3 | TimToady++ | src/core/List.pm:
list and cache listops can now use +args

list is not guaranteed to produce a List now, since it can also pass a Seq through unchanged. Use List for a guarantee.		 02:04
ast: 5463a12 | TimToady++ | S03-operators/context-forcers.t:
account for list listop passing Seq through
 02:07
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dalek ast: 247d3fb | TimToady++ | S17-supply/minmax.t:
reverse is non-flattening now
 02:29
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dalek kudo/nom: fd3c578 | TimToady++ | src/core/List.pm:
reverse is now oneargy
 02:30
kudo/nom: fec7edb | TimToady++ | src/core/control.pm:
callwith/nextwith shouldn't flatten
colomon really hopes that means reverse now follows the one argument rule, and not, as he first thought, that reverse had been renamed “oneargy”. 02:36
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mspo I need to get moar from the build to be different from moar I install 02:37
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dalek ast: b8cea3d | TimToady++ | S32-list/classify.t:
classify doesn't flatten now
 03:15
kudo/nom: 89751c5 | TimToady++ | src/core/Any-iterable-methods.pm:
don't need raw on +args
kudo/nom: f6a2fad | TimToady++ | src/core/ (3 files):
more miscellaneous deflattening
TimToady I think that pretty much wraps up my flattening audit
skids mspo: not sure what you need exactly but look at "rakudobrew triple" maybe? 03:16
TimToady everything remaining has a decent reason to stay flattening, usually having to do with expecting all the arguments to be non-structural or they wouldn't work anyway
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TimToady hopefully we're finally close to the end of the GLR shakeup 03:18
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skids m: my @a = <a b c d>; @a[(1,2),3].perl.say # so funny story, I accidentially made this happen, and not knowing it was me, or an accident, I docced it. And a few people liked it, but no real "ruling" on it yet. 03:29
camelia rakudo-moar fec7ed: OUTPUT«(("b", "c"), "d")␤»
TimToady still doesn't know what to make of it... 03:31
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ShimmerFairy I can't think of a good use for it myself, so I wouldn't be bothered if it disappeared, but I can't help but feel like it's a Cool Thing™ 03:32
TimToady well, it's a sort of deep map 03:35
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ShimmerFairy TimToady: true, and probably the nicest solution for "pull these elements into this structure". 03:38
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ShimmerFairy Huh, 'path' was supposed to be removed from Str, right? 'Cos there's a method path in Cool that makes sure it's still available for Str :P 03:53
m: say "foobar".path
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia/foobar".IO␤»
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mspo skids: I'm trying to create a pkgsrc pkg 03:54
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mspo skids: so when moar is built insid eof the destdir it links with moar.so in the wrong place 03:54
I can probably do the build and then futz with the linking later but it's nasty 03:57
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mspo I can also just build radkudo and nqp withouth -star 04:00
err- moar
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FROGGS .tell jnthn I agree with all points made on nope.md fwiw, though I bet there are more nopes out there 06:49
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
ShimmerFairy Where is this nope.md ? 06:51
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go|dfish ShimmerFairy: gist.github.com/jnthn/040f4502899d39b2cbb4 06:52
FROGGS moritz: was star released already? I won't be able to help today, but probably tomorrow evening (doing the MSI etc) 06:53
ShimmerFairy thanks :) 06:55
Hm. I have a question: what is PDL (I know it's a Perl 5 thingy), and why exactly does Perl 6 need to "support" it, according to S09? 07:01
AFAICT, the parts of S09 about it read like "how to make modules doing something like PDL", rather than describing anything directly relevant to core. 07:04
mst wut 07:08
PDL is perl data language, basically it's a bigass set of operator overloaded classes that allow things like matrix multiplication in perl5 except backed by lovingly hand optimised C code
I helped arrange the PAUSE adoption for it when it got orphaned for a bit
I would strongly suspect that a lot of this stuff is obsoleted by perl6's subsequent choices to be really freaking clever in terms of how you're doing math stuff 07:09
ShimmerFairy mst: well, a lot of reads like "PDLers would want to do [this]" or "A PDL implementation would...", which doesn't sound very core-ish to me :)
FROGGS mst: at some point we just need to talk to the PDL ppl to know what they'd need
and aid them somehow 07:10
ShimmerFairy mst: I don't know PDL at all, so I couldn't say, but my intuition is that whenever PDL was last written down in S09 was long enough for lots of things to have changed :) 07:11
FROGGS exactly 07:12
mst have you perused p3rl.org/PDL at all?
that should give you a quick overview
ShimmerFairy I've not, but I'll look
mst but my bet is that basically what it would mean is "make sure we can define e.g. matrix multiplication operators and have them be reasonably efficient"
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ShimmerFairy My first instinct to that is "use nqp ops [rakudo only, ech] or do something with NativeCall". 07:13
mst please remember I've not read the synopsis, I'm just explaining based on what I know of PDL 07:14
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mst I'm a perl5 person who hangs out here in the name of cross-contamin^Wpollination 07:14
ShimmerFairy There's only a couple dozen mentions of PDL in S09, and I just now flipped through them. So I'm not that much more familiar myself :P 07:15
mst also because I accidentally released rakudo as a CPAN module at one point to help fund the belgian perl workshop
wait, no, french perl workshop
sorry
I'll be doing that again soon now parrot is actually dead and I can do it properly
FSVO soon
skids My impression of PDL was it was the set of ops that, once Perl6 got them, would plumbed to transparenty use a multi-interpreter cloud/cluster before most anything else would. 07:19
mst it's just like matrix and vector shit but with operator overloading 07:21
I ... dunno why it got into a synopsis
except maybe "if we can't overload at least this hard, we suck"
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ShimmerFairy mst: after browsing the QuickStart, I'm of the opinion that Perl 6 doesn't need to offer any special support for PDL, since it can already handle what I've seen. 07:23
At the very least, it doesn't need to be support specially labeled for PDL :)
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mst that's rather my point 07:24
hence "if we can't overload at least this hard, we suck"
ShimmerFairy Also of note is that the P6 version of PDL wouldn't have to hijack infix:<x> , it could write a infix:<×> as it should be :)
mst that would be nice 07:25
the fact I can't oveerload that from pure perl has often made me sad in perl5
(I am, after all, a pure maths grad before I accidentally a programming career ;) 07:26
ShimmerFairy mst: yeah, just took a look and saw that P5 took the C++ route of operator overloading, by the looks of it :(
mst I dunno, I've largely avoided C++ anything overloading on grounds of the world doesn't contain enough changes of underwear ;) 07:27
ShimmerFairy (Also, the P6 PDL module would be strongly discouraged from defining a compatibility infix:<x> , since that's a Stringy op and we don't generally like conflating meanings like that (cf. eq/==, leg/<=>, etc.))
mst x is not stringy in perl5 07:28
if perl6 has decided to make it more restrictive, that's just weird
ShimmerFairy mst: infix:<x> works on strings in P6 ("A" x 4 -> "AAAA"), so making it do something numeric too would be a poor idea. 07:29
mst ShimmerFairy: it does in perl5 07:30
ShimmerFairy: it also works on lists
ShimmerFairy: (1) x 4 -> (1, 1, 1, 1) 07:31
mst uses that a lot more than the string version
ShimmerFairy m: say ((1) x 4).perl
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«"1111"␤»
ShimmerFairy m: say ((1) xx 4).perl
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«(1, 1, 1, 1).Seq␤»
ShimmerFairy the list version is now xx, and x is always stringy :) 07:32
mst: basically, unless I'm mistaken, it would be like defining sub infix:<eq>(Matrix $a, Matrix $b) { } for matrix equality, instead of using == (or whatever fancy Unicode math op there may be for matrix equality) 07:34
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mst ShimmerFairy: aha, right 07:38
just speaking as a mathematician, being able to use x as matrix cross product would be really nice 07:39
I could likely live with xx instead :)
FROGGS .tell jnthn I also think Bit/bit, a proper Complex and Cat are also quite nope
yoleaux FROGGS: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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ShimmerFairy mst: the cool people way would be to define the unicode operator × for it :) 07:41
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mst ShimmerFairy: how would I get that on a normal keyboard without wanting to stab myself? 07:50
genuine question, I'm normally very much 7-bit clean in terms of what I type 07:51
ShimmerFairy mst: I've got Compose key + x + x
that obviously needs a compose key setup though
m: say "×".ord.base(16)
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«D7␤»
mst also I have a horrible feeling ex-vi will get really confused by that 07:52
ShimmerFairy huh. I'm surprised you'd only have to upgrade to 8-bit clean for that one :P
mst there are occasionally disadvantages to maintaining an editor written in 1970
ShimmerFairy mst: nice modules would provide ASCII versions of operators. We do that with « » available as << >>, and all the set ops we provide, for example. 07:53
mst but, yeah, "make it so a PDLish thing can be built" still seems like me to be all that should be retained from whatever 07:56
maybe larry'll correct that
dalek ast: 7a34a79 | FROGGS++ | S02-names/pseudo.t:
refudge, we know about CORE now
 07:57
ShimmerFairy I'm sure we've already got quite a bit of stuff in place for PDL (sans the remaining work on multidim arrays). We've even got support for C++ in NativeCall, for pete's sake! :P
mst right 07:58
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masak good antenoon, #perl6 08:44
brrt good * masak 08:46
masak and a fine * it is 08:47
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Goblin_ How to generate all possible combinations with repetition of given length? 09:20
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brrt Goblin_: i'm sorry, i don't understand what exactly you want 09:20
Goblin_ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combination#...repetition 09:24
Тут нет русских? 09:34
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masak да, конечно мы говорим по-русски 09:40
cognominal Goblin_: you have to write yourselve. There is a .permutations without repetition though
m: < a b c >.permutations 09:41
camelia ( no output )
cognominal m: say < a b c >.permutations
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«((a b c) (a c b) (b a c) (b c a) (c a b) (c b a))␤»
cognominal I would not be surprised if does already exist on Rosetta though 09:42
masak Goblin_: it's a good question. I don't know offhand. would need to code it up, I think
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cognominal there is an extremely ineffecient way to do it. 09:44
Or though I thought. 09:45
say < a a b c >.permutations.unique
m: say < a a b c >.permutations.unique
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«((a a b c) (a a c b) (a b a c) (a b c a) (a c a b) (a c b a) (a a b c) (a a c b) (a b a c) (a b c a) (a c a b) (a c b a) (b a a c) (b a c a) (b a a c) (b a c a) (b c a a) (b c a a) (c a a b) (c a b a) (c a a b) (c a b a) (c b a a) (c b a a))␤»
cognominal apparently it's not unique :(
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cognominal m: say < a a b c >.permutations.unique(as => -> @a { join '', @a }) 09:51
camelia rakudo-moar f6a2fa: OUTPUT«((a a b c) (a a c b) (a b a c) (a b c a) (a c a b) (a c b a) (b a a c) (b a c a) (b c a a) (c a a b) (c a b a) (c b a a))␤»
cognominal ho, Goblin_ was not patient enough 09:52
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jnthn The question said "with repetition", I thought, so no uniq'ing required :) 10:08
yoleaux 06:49Z <FROGGS> jnthn: I agree with all points made on nope.md fwiw, though I bet there are more nopes out there
07:39Z <FROGGS> jnthn: I also think Bit/bit, a proper Complex and Cat are also quite nope
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jnthn .tell FROGGS thanks, added those to gist.github.com/jnthn/040f4502899d39b2cbb4 10:14
yoleaux jnthn: I'll pass your message to FROGGS.
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timotimo o/ 10:22
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vendethiel jnthn: "that works" <- tiny typo 10:31
timotimo should be "that work's"? :P
mst blinks 10:32
mst first read that as 'tiny hippo'
timotimo the problem about "we already have shaped arrays and such!" is that we can't really give them to NativeCall in a sensible manner 10:33
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timotimo i.e. we don't offer any kind of interface yet 10:33
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timotimo i haven't looked at the design of our shaped arrays too closely yet; i just remember that numpy has an extremely flexible design that'll allow you to arrange your data in more or less any way you'd like 10:34
and there's this inline c++ code thing that'll expose these numpy arrays as an extremely high-powered class with a lot of support for advanced slicing and such 10:35
i'm not sure we'll be able to get somewhere similar 10:36
without a whole bunch of work
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lizmat good *, #perl6! 10:39
timotimo heyo liz!
lizmat jnthn: taint mode I guess is also a nope
timotimo o/
jnthn timotimo: I did, afaik, have our shaped arrays laid out as C does lay its out, so as to make at least the easy case work out 10:41
lizmat: Will add, thanks
vendethiel: thanks! 10:42
vendethiel jnthn++
timotimo jnthn: numpy (or at least scipy) has a whooole lot of code in fortran, so it supports both C and Fortran array layout
jnthn timotimo: aha
timotimo but it has these "strides" that can pretty much be anything, IIUC
jnthn timotimo: Good we have repr poly ;)
timotimo heh :) 10:44
jnthn gist updated :) 10:45
lizmat jnthn: last year I made a list for myself, good to see many things got implemented :-)
jnthn ;)
lunch &
lizmat DYNAMIC:: is that still a thing
?
augment: seen by subclasses ? 10:46
multi level type definitions? 10:47
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[Tux] Updating panda as well 11:03
X11 forwarding request failed on channel 0
==> Bootstrapping Panda
Default constructor for 'Panda::Ecosystem' only takes named arguments
in method throw at /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/runtime/CORE.setting.moarvm:1
in sub make-default-ecosystem at /pro/3gl/CPAN/rakudobrew/moar-nom/panda/lib/Panda/App.pm:39
in sub MAIN at bin/panda:16
in block <unit> at bin/panda:95
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timotimo lizmat: "augment seen by subclasses" is not going to make it into 6.christmas? :o 11:05
that seems pretty bad
lizmat well, that is the question
FROGGS[mobile] jnthn: what's this flexible type unint4 for you are talking about? :o)
lizmat timotimo: currently, classes don't know their subclasses: only subclasses know their parent class 11:06
FROGGS[mobile] lizmat: I dont think that this would be hard to solve...
timotimo mhh
lizmat jnthn: last time I raised this with jnthn, he seemed to find it not that easy to fix
timotimo classes should not keep their subclasses alive in a GC situation 11:07
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timotimo that's the first thing that comes to my mind at least 11:08
building a simple nqp-level array or hash into a ClassHOW that tracks the subclasses for method cache invalidation would make classes uncollectable 11:09
cognominal I thought there already was weak hashes in MoarVM 11:14
timotimo oh? 11:23
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Marius Marius1984 11:29
11:29 Marius is now known as Guest98026
Guest98026 Titulo hack01 Banck $ tress start 11:30
Start tress
Tress
Arvores iniciar
Nick serv
timotimo hello marius, how can we help you? 11:31
Guest98026 Cancelar tudo 11:32
11:33 brrt left
Guest98026 Como posso hackear um jogo? 11:33
pink_mist Guest98026: do you speak english? 11:34
Guest98026 Sair
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tadzik i.imgur.com/fNEy5Wd.gif 11:36
Loren evening , #perl6 11:37
timotimo helloren
Loren timotimo, hi. 11:38
vendethiel o/ 11:40
btyler_ hi folks. continuing with some meta-programming messing around, how do I dynamically add an attribute with an accessor? add_attribute + add_method that secretly does $attribute.get_value feels a bit clunky, and isn't working to boot: gist.github.com/kanatohodets/f193d...a755e32d23 11:43
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btyler_ to save a click through: "doesn't work" here means: I self.^attributes lists the given attribute, but when I grep it out of self.^attributes and do $attr.get_value(self), I get a crash saying "no such attribute" (on this object, presumably) 11:52
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kid51 A perl6 beginner's question: To use the p6doc tool to read the documentation, you have to have a perl6 executable installed -- correct? 12:00
yoleaux 17 Jun 2014 14:13Z <[Coke]> kid51: Pending parrot-nyc-users request that I can't do anything with. it's been pinging me for a few days
lizmat kid51 o/ 12:03
it has been a while
kid51 2 weeks is a while? 12:04
pink_mist well yoleaux had a message for you from June 2014 0_o
lizmat the message from [Coke] was from June 2014 ?
kid51: IRL indeed :-) 12:05
kid51: I'm afraid I cannot answer your question... feels to me like you should have a perl6 installed
note that "make install" does *not* install a system wide perl6
it just installs it in the local install dir 12:06
personally, I have a symlink to my most used perl6 in /usr/local/bin
kid51 Looking at the README for Rakudo Star, it states that, upon build, the executable is installed into ./install/ -- not into a more permanent location like /usr/local/ 12:07
Is there any reason *not* to install into /usr/local/ 12:08
?
psch no particular rakudo-specific reason afaik 12:10
lizmat kid51: ah, rakudo-star is a bit of a different beast 12:11
kid51 Background: dha has been asking me to work with him on his p52p6 documentation efforts.
lizmat is a rakudo-star noob
++kid51 dha++ :-) 12:12
kid51 knows nothing about current state of perl6 language; is not currently interested in contributing to perl6 source code; perl 6 docs are separate repository
So I don't see need for git checkout of perl6 itself or need to keep up with HEAD 12:13
psch i think installing rakudo or rakudo-star into /usr/local means 1) you have package manager untracked files there 2) you have run panda as root 12:14
kid51 What is panda?
psch kid51: our cpanm equivalent, i think? cpanm is the small one that doesn't do that much right? :) 12:15
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[ptc] kid51: it's a package manager for perl6 12:15
similar in spirit to cpanm
kid51 psch: If I am compiling rakudo-star (or even just rakudo) from source, I am by definition not using a package manager -- in which case *all* installed files are "package manager untracked" -- correct? 12:18
Does panda come with Rakudo Star?
psch kid51: sure, but many distros recommend not putting those kind of files into /usr/, but instead ~/usr for example 12:19
kid51: i personally don't have strong feelings about that, but i've read that some people do
pink_mist is there a local::lib equivalent for perl6? 12:23
lizmat pink_mist: there will be, in a way 12:24
thing is, rakudo won't have a centrally managed package list
but having said that, it is currently in flux pretty much 12:25
pink_mist oh, so there won't be a cpan for p6?
lizmat pink_mist: why would there not be a cpan for perl6
? 12:26
there will be many (conceptually speaking)
please read S22
pink_mist oh, you said there wouldn't be a centrally managed package list ... I assumed that meant no cpan
lizmat ah, I meant locally
pink_mist so in that case I don't understand what you actually meant with that. could you explain further?
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lizmat S22 describes a "recommendation manager" 12:27
that you *could* equate to CPAN's module list
but there does not need to be a single one in the world :-)
pink_mist alright, wonder how that will work out :P 12:28
lizmat :-) me too :-) 12:29
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kid51 So what I ended up doing was: 12:33
perl Configure.pl --backend=moar --gen-moar --prefix=/home/jkeenan/rakudo 12:34
and then adding /home/jkeenan/rakudo/bin to PATH in .bashrc
$ perl6 -v
This is perl6 version 2015.07.2 built on MoarVM version 2015.07
lizmat looks legit to me :-) 12:35
ShimmerFairy psch: well, first of all, /usr/local is specifically supposed to be for outside-package-manager system-wide install (AFAIU), and secondly you can most certainly run panda without root :) 12:39
kid51 Speaking of package managers, ... the results for apt-cache search rakudo seem horribly out of date; refer to Rakudo as Perl 6 on Parrot VM 12:42
ShimmerFairy kid51: not surprised. I imagine things will get updated quickly once Christmas arrives, though :) 12:44
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psch ShimmerFairy: fair enough, it's that's what /usr/local is for i probably misremember whatever rant i read 12:51
ShimmerFairy: and yeah, i saw panda install $pkg $to a bit afterwards
ShimmerFairy psch: at least on gentoo that's how it works, so I can't help but think that any package manager making use of /usr/local is perhaps not very good :P 12:52
psch: ? just panda install Module::Name works. It'll install to ~/.perl6
psch shrugs
i don't use panda much :P
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err whoops
tadzik oh, mispaste :)
psch yeah...
fixing my mouse
tadzik what would that lead to.. :P
psch uhm
i think trails in the sky
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psch ohh 12:54
no
horrible disgusting porn
>_>
yeah well vOv
moritz: can i ask you to scrub that..? ._. 12:55
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ohh ffs
moritz psch: first stop pasting that stuff please :-)
psch yeah
sorry 12:56
pink_mist coughs
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tadzik so, how do we scratch that off everyone's immediate backlog. Have you guys heard? Rust 1.3 is out or something 12:58
psch i can complain about getBI and makeBI..? 12:59
tadzik has anyone tried it yet? It seems like an interesting language, kind of forcing you to change your way of thinking about things
psch it's weird and complicated
moritz tadzik: I've toyed a bit with Rust (0.9 iirc), but quickly gave up, because I had no real use case 13:00
tadzik: but I'd seriously consider it if I had something very low-level to do
psch oh, they a stringly-typed switch/case?
doc.rust-lang.org/book/patterns.html yeah, no, it's almost given/when with junctions :o 13:01
tadzik wow :)
psch and ranges
leont Rust looks to me like the first credible C++ replacement I've seen so far 13:02
I hope it will kill off Go
[ptc] kid51: the Debian packages for MoarVM/NQP/Rakudo are in the process of being updated to current Rakudo 13:03
moritz leont: unlikely; Go seems to appeal to the pythonistas, not to the low-level programmers
[ptc] kid51: MoarVM is already packaged and (I believe) 2015.07 or 2015.08 is current
leont To me, Go's niche seems to be "I want a fast somewhat low level language without having to deal with low-level issues" 13:04
[ptc] if I bother to kick myself in the backside, nqp might end up happening soon...