»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
krshn timotimo: what is SSA? 00:00
cygx single static assignment
timotimo "single ... " yes
cygx but in this case, more like single static binding
00:00 woolfy left
cygx m: my \hello = my $ = "world"; hello ~= " world"; say hello 00:01
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«world world␤»
cygx you can still assign if you bind something assignable
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gfldex m: my @a = <mdash amp>; say ('&' xx * Z~ @a Z~ ';' xx *).join; 00:02
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«&mdash;&amp;␤»
timotimo i've already shown that, cygx :P
m: my @a = <mdash amp>; say @a.fmt("&%s;").say
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/Hj_lvmmmnR␤Variable '%s' is not declared␤at /tmp/Hj_lvmmmnR:1␤------> 3my @a = <mdash amp>; say @a.fmt("&7⏏5%s;").say␤»
timotimo m: my @a = <mdash amp>; say @a.fmt('&%s;').say
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«&mdash; &amp;␤True␤»
timotimo m: my @a = <mdash amp>; say @a.fmt('&%s;')
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«&mdash; &amp;␤»
timotimo too much say
krshn interesting. thanks. 00:03
cygx timotimo: repetition is an essential teaching tool :p
krshn cygx: yes++
timotimo yes yes
am i doing it right? 00:04
cygx oO( Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life. )
(Terry Pratchett)++ :'(
nebuchadnezzar m: my @a = 1; @a[3] = 2; say @a.grep(.defined) 00:05
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«Cannot use Bool as Matcher with '.grep'. Did you mean to use $_ inside a block?␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/1IeLr1Vs9X:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/1IeLr1Vs9X:1␤␤»
atweiden timotimo: nom is currently not building 00:06
No writeable path found in block <unit> at tools/build/install-core-dist.pl:12
it compiled fine, but for this
krshn so here.. \hello is more like a reference to some memory location ? 00:07
timotimo no
krshn if it points to something that can change, it can be modified, else not?
timotimo delete the thought of "reference" from your brain right now :) 00:08
cygx variable names are bound to a thing, normally a scalar container, an array or a hash, depending on whether you use $, @ or %
then, you can assign to that thing with = or re-bind the name with := 00:09
nebuchadnezzar erf, how could I grep all those “(Any)”?
cygx native variables and sgilless ones are special
*sigilless
timotimo nebuchadnezzar: you can .grep(*.defined)
i'll go to sleep nao 00:10
nebuchadnezzar erf, thanks
timotimo++
krshn thanks.. lot of reading to do :-)
thanks timotimo++ gnite 00:11
nebuchadnezzar lot of things to learn, Perl6++
krshn nebuchadnezzar: yep.. I am prepared for the long haul. Ideally, I would like to program in perl6 for the next 25 years 00:12
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_nadim hi, there a way to grep a list and get two lists, one that matches one that does not? And I means something that is syntaxically pleasant and perl6ish, not a for loop, and if and two lists. 00:12
nebuchadnezzar read the doc looking for what *.defined means
_nadim s/there/Is there/
AlexDaniel nebuchadnezzar: * is whatever star 00:13
nebuchadnezzar: you can probably do .grep({.defined}) as well
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gfldex it's WhateverCode see: doc.perl6.org/type/WhateverCode 00:13
cygx m: m: my ($a, @b, %c); my int $d; say $a.VAR.WHAT, @b.VAR.WHAT, %c.VAR.WHAT, $d.VAR.WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(Scalar)(Array)(Hash)(IntLexRef)␤»
cygx krshn: ^^
AlexDaniel nebuchadnezzar: or .grep({$_.defined}) if you wish
or .grep: { .defined }; … 00:14
timotimo but never .grep(.defined)
AlexDaniel hm I wonder, what about .grep(&defined) ?
cygx just .grep(*.defined)
nebuchadnezzar gfldex, AlexDaniel: ok, that's what I used to use in perl5
m: my @a = 1; @a[3] = 2; say @a.grep(&defined)
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«Cannot call ACCEPTS(Sub+{<anon|70088992>}: Int); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:U $: \topic, *%_)␤ (Mu:U $: Mu:U \topic, *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/zHLS744LX5:1␤␤»
nebuchadnezzar m: my @a = 1; @a[3] = 2; say @a.grep(*.defined)
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(1 2)␤»
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nebuchadnezzar m: my @a = 1; @a[3] = 2; say @a.grep: .defined 00:15
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«Cannot use Bool as Matcher with '.grep'. Did you mean to use $_ inside a block?␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GvblBOeuGv:1␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/GvblBOeuGv:1␤␤»
nebuchadnezzar m: my @a = 1; @a[3] = 2; say @a.grep: {.defined}
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(1 2)␤»
nebuchadnezzar ok, thanks guys
krshn can someone point me to SSA doc? 00:16
atleast what do I search for?
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AlexDaniel m: sub foo { defined $^a }; my @a = 1; @a[3] = 2; say @a.grep(&foo) 00:17
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(1 2)␤»
AlexDaniel honestly I don't understand why you have to wrap ｢defined｣ into your own sub 00:18
timotimo m: say &defined.perl
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«Sub+{<anon|70088992>}.new␤»
krshn en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_singl...nment_form ?
timotimo m: say &defined.signature 00:19
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
timotimo krshn: yeah
krshn ok. thanks.
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krshn that wiki relevant to perl6 ? 00:19
cygx timotimo: curious notion of 'sleep' you have there ;)
timotimo yeah.
timotimo suspends computer
AlexDaniel timotimo: which means?
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krshn why do I have the feeling that once I learn a good chunk of perl6, I would have learnt a good chunk of computer science itself ? 00:21
I am a electrical engineer btw :-) 00:22
so this is great
I would never have come across SSA otherwise
AlexDaniel krshn: I'm not sure about that. But you will learn a bunch of stuff that you can also use in other languages, yes
krshn sure.. :-) I am not so naive to think that cs == perl6 00:23
AlexDaniel krshn: which is why I like the idea of using Perl 6 for teaching. Basically anything that you want to show you can show in Perl 6
hankache TimToady post is up 00:24
check the Advent
krshn it definitely is overwhelming.. perl6 has everything and the kitchen sink thrown in
AlexDaniel hankache: nice :) 00:25
krshn thanks hankache
was waiting for it
TimToady at one time we had a type named KitchenSink, just so we could say that
hankache TimToady++
TimToady we still have the sink
cygx krshn: documantation is at doc.perl6.org/language/variables#Si..._variables and design.perl6.org/S06.html#Term_binding 00:26
krshn :-) first time on this channel.. can't believe I am chatting with you Larry.
gfldex m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; say @a >>~~>> Int:D;
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«[True True True]␤»
cygx *documentation
gfldex m: my @a = 1, Nil, 3; say @a >>~~>> Int:D;
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«[True False True]␤»
krshn cygx: thanks 00:27
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RandalSchwartz what is panda? Why doesn't it install from git? 00:27
hankache can you please go to news.ycombinator.com/newest and www.reddit.com/r/perl6/ and upvote Larry's Post (An Unexpectedly Long-expected Party) 00:28
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RandalSchwartz I'm building git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git every day, but it doesn't have anything panda in it 00:28
_nadim it installs modules, it needs to be bootstraped. clone repo, follow instructions.
github.com/tadzik/panda/ 00:29
RandalSchwartz INSTALL.txt doesn't mention it, except to say to "use it"
perhaps that INSTALL.txt needs to be updated to say what you just said
_nadim Error message "Directives specify 0 arguments, but 2 arguments were supplied" could be more helpful, like where that occures to start with 00:30
skids Most people install it using "rakudobrew build panda"
RandalSchwartz what the heck is rakudobrew? What would have told me about that?
that's *also* not mentioned in INSTALL.txt .. I just read that 00:31
skids All good questions. github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew
RandalSchwartz so there's a lot of folklore around rakudo already
tadzik what is INSTALL.txt? :)
there's some tribal knowledge
diakopter what is reading?
AlexDaniel cool.
RandalSchwartz I'm being the guinea pig for christmas
because I really want this to work when the crowds throng in 00:32
tadzik well, panda and rakudobrew are not official stuff of any sort
it's just what a lot of people tends to use
RandalSchwartz is there a web page I should have read instead of INSTALL.txt?
Nothing is official!
this is perl6!
tadzik does perl.org recommend perlbrew?
or cpanminus?
skids Well, I expect the crowds wil be using xmas's star release which will bundle that all.
RandalSchwartz Oh - so when I download two days from now, I will get that? 00:33
AlexDaniel RandalSchwartz: rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/
RandalSchwartz but just not today?
AlexDaniel RandalSchwartz: this one does
_nadim perl6.org/getting-started/
RandalSchwartz "this" "one"
diakopter RandalSchwartz: a rakudo.org post from February (on first page still) mentions panda
RandalSchwartz not the current git?
skids But, we shoud probably make some "developers install" instructions very easy to find.
RandalSchwartz I don't see panda anywhere in today's build
gfldex m: my @a = 1, Nil, 3; say [Z~~] @a, Int:D xx *; 00:34
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(True False True)␤»
diakopter RandalSchwartz: you're not building the star distribution
hankache can you please go to news.ycombinator.com/newest and www.reddit.com/r/perl6/ and upvote Larry's Post (An Unexpectedly Long-expected Party)
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_nadim I started at perl6.org/getting-started/, was done within 10 mn. simple enough 00:34
diakopter hankache: you already posted that
skids panda isn't part of rakudo, so that's way it does not mention it, same way gcc does not mention dpkg.
hankache diakopter i am spamming
diakopter as a way of life? 00:35
RandalSchwartz Is there a git archive I can build instead of using brew?
brew conflicts with macports... I went crazy having both of them installed
diakopter you can try github.com/rakudo/star
_nadim start here: perl6.org/getting-started/
diakopter RandalSchwartz: rakudobrew is not brew
RandalSchwartz ... rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ 00:36
says brew install rakudo-star
I don't want to do that
diakopter very outdated
RandalSchwartz again... this is festivus
christmas is just around the corner
diakopter ++
AlexDaniel actually, I think that the debian package is going to be there
RandalSchwartz people are going to swamp to this page
s/swamp/swarm/
AlexDaniel last time I complained about it being outdated somebody on this channel actually uploaded 2015.09 00:37
diakopter who's building the debian package? is it in the pipeline?
AlexDaniel diakopter: Dominique Dumont [email@hidden.address]
jdv79 just clone rakudo off github and perl Configure.pl --gen-moar && make install
cygx RandalSchwartz: there's a section 'Building from source'
RandalSchwartz so perl6 *isn't* ready for a "release on christmas" if the docs on how to get started aren't even correct.
diakopter RandalSchwartz: start with the "To install rakudobrew" lines on that rakudo.org page 00:38
RandalSchwartz ahh... thank you
sorry, I got stuck on the brew command.
diakopter it ends with panda install Task::Star
RandalSchwartz yeah yeah, thanks. OK, whining volume reduced.
I'll give that a try tonight when I'm on a faster link 00:39
diakopter I think only moritz and pmichaud can post to rakudo.org
krshn great post 00:40
jdv79 that how-to-get-rakudo is a little verbose and rambly. a TOC would help too. 00:41
s//page/
RandalSchwartz so rakudobrew will also do what my direct install from git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git has been doing? 00:42
I've been doing it the hard way? :)
jdv79 i fee like it could be < 1/4 that size and then link off to more rambles if they are really needed
diakopter RandalSchwartz: yes, but you need panda also to get the Star modules
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diakopter github.com/rakudo/star/blob/master...re.pl#L290 00:43
RandalSchwartz ok... so I'll change my morning workflow
diakopter someone should try running that lately
tadzik: the problem with tribal knowledge is that non-tribal conflicting knowledge is unaware of it 00:44
jdv79 huh. do we really need install/bin when we have install/share/perl6/site/bin? 00:45
nm 00:47
krshn I am not able to do "panda install Task::Star" 00:49
==> Installing Grammar::Debugger Cannot unbox a type object in block at /home/krshn/local/linux/share/perl6/site/sources/443265C9F8492658D1FECC3F5B7DAAC93EDF370F:61 in sub indir at /home/krshn/local/linux/share/perl6/site/sources/19FE314CF0CF0A0E3BC1A2E32118466C7984705D:20 in method install at /home/krshn/local/linux/share/perl6/site/sources/443265C9F8492658D1FECC3F5B7DAAC93EDF370F:42 in method install at /home/krshn/local/lin
this is on the latest version of perl6/8955469 00:50
jdv79 try it again
krshn and latest version of panda/005eb66
jdv79 that is a currently difficult to repro bug
it normally only happens the first time
:(
krshn ok again 00:51
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jdv79 i thought that had been fixed. maybe it should be bumped up in priority. nine would know. 00:51
krshn failing Template::Mustache 00:52
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TimToady URI also appears to be failing 00:53
krshn ==> Installing Template::Mustache ==> Successfully installed Template::Mustache ==> Fetching URI ==> Building URI ==> Testing URI t/01.t ................... ok Use of the 'unpack' method is experimental; please 'use experimental :pack' in sub uri-escape at /rhel5pdi/workplace/krshn/git/panda/.panda-work/1450918318_9/lib/URI/Escape.pm:18 in block <unit> at t/escape.t:18 # Looks like you planned 11 tests, but ran 4 t/escape.t .......
TimToady oh, looks like it needs 'use experimental'
krshn Sorry URI as TimToady pointed out 00:54
jdv79 krshn: is that literally failing? looks like a warning only.
oh, nm
krshn URI failing .. Files=4, Tests=86, 5 wallclock secs ( 0.01 usr 0.00 sys + 5.39 cusr 0.40 csys = 5.80 CPU) Result: FAIL
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TimToady even though we don't promise Star by Christmas, we would do well to make this a bit smoother... 00:55
hmm, I see a [DISLOCATED MESSAGE] Useless use of enter_result__1 symbol in sink context 00:57
better fix that...
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_nadim TimToady: Error message "Directives specify 0 arguments, but 2 arguments were supplied" could be more helpful, at least where it occures 01:00
or shall I report a bug?
jdv79 krshn: that's from a change made today. 01:01
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krshn ok 01:01
jdv79: ok
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TimToady _nadim: it could at least mention 'printf' or some such 01:02
_nadim yes, the error was %:2d, note the extra ':' in the format of a sprint. the line could be useful too if one has many sprintf 01:03
c_babbalage _nadim: What makes it a bug? Is `Directives` a separate kind of thing, or the name of a sub/function/method/thingy? Sorry, I'm not helping, I just dropped in here because it's nearly Christmas and I wanted to try it out.
RandalSchwartz TimToady - that's why I'm helping point out things before the masses approach 01:04
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TimToady nodnod 01:04
RandalSchwartz since I've been mostly disconnected from everything, other than building moar every day
TimToady we always need fresh viewpoints
RandalSchwartz make.rakudo && perl6 -e 'say "Hello, World!" 01:05
jdv79 I don't get why most of the stuff is in Task::Star.
krshn When I started trying out perl6 about a month back, I was able to get rakudo compiling on gcc 5.2.0 only after: export CFLAGS="-Wno-error=declaration-after-statement" 01:07
jdv79 JSON::RPC, Test::Mock, HTTP::Status, ufo? most of these aren't general purpose.
krshn perl Configure.pl --gen-moar --gen-nqp --backends=moar --prefix=$HOME/local/linux
jdv79 krshn: what os?
krshn it took me a while to figure out this flag
Linux <host> 2.6.18-164.el5 #1 SMP Tue Aug 18 15:51:48 EDT 2009 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux 01:08
dalek kudo/nom: 93c6c9f | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
suppress useless use of enter_result_1
jdv79 is it redhat 5?
krshn yes
jdv79 i think you hit a bug i did in the confif of moar 01:09
its reported but aparrently not fixed
*config
krshn jdv79: now is it fixed?
can I try removing it and trying?
jdv79 i'm not sure. last i tried i wasn't.
krshn jdv79: so it only works after this declaration? is it documented? 01:10
jdv79 github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/277
that seems like it
krshn jdv79: let me try removing it 01:11
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jdv79 its likely not fixed 01:11
c_babbalage So.. I have a program that does the countdown game (it's pretty simple, and only does `(.... (a + b).... op n)` forms, not `(a / b) + (c / d)` forms fwiw). It fails bizarrely: 01:12
With `Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1` -- but only after the first ordering of number has been checked (it's a brute force approach, I can share code if that'll help) 01:13
AlexDaniel c_babbalage: that'll help, especially if you can golf it down to something short
skids c_babbalage: code would help.
c_babbalage It's about 40 lines...
:/
skids Make a github gist
c_babbalage I am not a golfer
kk 01:14
AlexDaniel m: my \pi = pi; say pi 01:15
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
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krshn jdv79: works without the flag -- confirmed 01:16
c_babbalage AlexDaniel: gist.github.com/hughsimpson/eca3dd...69e56a5c97
Probably I just don't know how to write perl6 yet 01:17
But the error message is LTA
krshn going to try panda after TimToady update
AlexDaniel c_babbalage: meh no line number 01:18
jdv79 krshn: its fixed? 01:19
doin a pr for a one line change is kinda a pita
c_babbalage AlexDaniel: Well yeah, hence all the `say`s...
krshn i am able to build rakudo with setting CFLAGS
c_babbalage Not a clue where it dies
jdv79 ok
TimToady it's just suppressing a warning
dalek c: 770c7f8 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
add TODOs for Meta Operators so it's easier to spot that documenting
c: ded6e00 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #258 from gfldex/master

add TODOs for Meta Operators so it's easier to spot that documenting Perl 6 supports lazyness too
TimToady won't fix the big issue
krshn TimToady: ok
jdv79 anyone with commit on URI - github.com/perl6-community-modules/uri/pull/28 01:20
TimToady and won't add experimental to modules that need it...
gfldex self.tomorrow.push('doc Meta Operators'); self.sleep;
krshn logging off. thanks. 01:21
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AlexDaniel c_babbalage: I think that it dies here: for comp(@p, %{}) -> $k, $v { 01:21
grondilu suddenly realises it's December 24th already
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AlexDaniel c_babbalage: yes, I'm pretty sure that it is what happens 01:22
c_babbalage AlexDaniel: What'd I get wrong there, then?
krshn great channel btw. I can't believe I stayed away for so long -- bad experience in other channels in the past.
AlexDaniel c_babbalage: not so fast! Still trying to figure out :)
jdv79 nite
c_babbalage :)
cygx_ AlexDaniel: c_babbalage: if you get LTA error messages, you can try with --ll-exception to get at least a backtrace 01:23
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AlexDaniel cygx_: yeah and get a bunch of errors in m-CORE.setting. True, sometimes it is useful 01:24
cygx_ at troll.p6:23
c_babbalage AlexDaniel: And that does indeed nail it to the line you mentioned. Nice, thanks :)
Learning more here every time
AlexDaniel cygx_: ah!!! Indeed!!
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skids m: my %d = :b; for %d -> $k, $v { say "$k $v" }; 01:25
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/IhLnHC_UnS:1␤␤»
skids m: my %d = :b; for %d.kv -> $k, $v { say "$k $v" };
camelia rakudo-moar 895546: OUTPUT«b True␤»
AlexDaniel yeah, that's what I figured too
skids That's the issue I think.
AlexDaniel missing .kv
TimToady well, the real issue is the missing line number 01:26
unfortunately binding is very low level
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c_babbalage Thanks so much for the help here 01:27
knew I wouldn't regret dropping by :)
TimToady oh, it does have a line number, nm 01:28
skids c_babbalage: so for %hash will send one pair from the hash each iteration, if you ask for two via "-> $k, $v" it will fail with that message if the hash had an odd number of keys.
TimToady sometimes I think the filename:line# notation is a bit too terse
c_babbalage skids: Yup, that clears it all up 01:29
grondilu "Really, I feel sorry for the people who are only happy when they have something to be unhappy about." That's a great quote.
TimToady not only does the line# disappear into the filename visually, it also makes it hard to copy/past the filename
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TimToady does anything depend on the foofile:42 format? 01:30
if not, I'd like to expand it to 'in file foofile line 42' or so 01:31
krshn how does one authenticate name on freenode?
AlexDaniel krshn: /msg NickServ HELP I think
I'm still trying to figure out why there is no line number… 01:32
c_babbalage btw, after the fix, I now have `Type check failed in binding $x; expected Rat but got Num`. Aren't I fun today? Also no line number, but again `--ll-exception` helps 01:33
skids krshn: freenode.net/faq.shtml#userregistration
jdv79 why does Bailador give panda such a workout?
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c_babbalage I'm aliasing `perl6 --ll-exception` to `wtf` right now 01:34
krshn AlexDaniel, skids: thanks
c_babbalage AlexDaniel, skids: also thanks 01:35
but for different reasons :)
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krshn Colloquy (mac) is asking for username/password which is not same as nick/username 01:38
i mean nick/password
AlexDaniel c_babbalage: ok down to 30 lines… It's so weird 01:39
c_babbalage: basically if you change the code at least a bit then the line number suddenly appears!
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c_babbalage AlexDaniel: If I remove all the` .Rat`s, then the code works 01:41
krshn anyone logging into irc.freenode.net using mac? need help
c_babbalage I have no clue with regards the line number, I've only spent a few days looking at the rakudo github ;)
AlexDaniel c_babbalage: nah I don't know about this one, trying to figure out what makes it hide the line number
skids krshn: you shouldn't need a password at all. Try leaving it blank? 01:42
c_babbalage `((((3 + 4) * 12) - 8) * 7)` \o/
jdv79 DBIish is pretty sluggish too 01:43
c_babbalage AlexDaniel: You have fixed my code, you are a wizard, please have this wheel of cheese as a token of my goodwill O
krshn skids: Colloquy client needs a username/pass. not the web interface that I am on now. 01:44
c_babbalage Sorry to leave you with a bug, of course. *egress*
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krshn I don't really care for the client. I just need one that stores history. 01:44
01:44 hankache left
skids krshn: well, you sure you selected IRC as the protocol? There should be a way to do that w/o a password. 01:45
(I don't have a mac, so...)
01:45 spannerMallet joined 01:46 AndyDee joined
AlexDaniel 7 lines! 01:47
krshn skids: any GPL client that works on mac? (sorry not much into irc before)
skids krshn: pidgin maybe? 01:48
jdv79 i'm gettin the feelin that DBIish isn't gonna finish installing
spannerMallet skids: rejoined (was c_some-sodding-babbage-typo) but srsly, I was stuck for a week . Just realised you were the one who pointed out my .kv error and I may've been insufficiently gracious. Now I will lurk and say n'more. Anyway. Thanks a bunch too. 01:49
skids ◔ I already ate most of AlexDaniel's cheese :-) 01:51
AlexDaniel skids: and by that you mean?
skids Nothing ust being silly 01:52
01:52 _nadim left
AlexDaniel m: gather for %{1 => ‘a’, 2 => ‘b’, 3 => ‘c’} -> $k, $v { take “him” } 01:54
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤»
AlexDaniel here
01:54 twatmonger joined
TimToady oh great, I broke ENTER... 01:55
AlexDaniel m: gather for (1 => ‘a’, 2 => ‘b’, 3 => ‘c’) -> $k, $v { take 1 }
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤»
dalek kudo/nom: 7f30326 | TimToady++ | src/core/Backtrace.pm:
say 'line' when we mean line, not colon
kudo/nom: 6471e82 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
Revert "suppress useless use of enter_result_1"

This reverts commit 93c6c9f0ce2ac9f4d4698268c686e34a1c500239.
01:56 krshn left
TimToady WANTED isn't visible from World, alas...how to fix 01:57
AlexDaniel uhh so it seems like gather-take is eating the line number somehow
TimToady huh 01:58
AlexDaniel m: my %h = <1 a 2 b 3 c>; gather for %h -> $k, $v { take 1 } 01:59
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤»
jdv79 so I can install Task::Star sans DBIish, LWP::Simple and JSON::RPC. also had to use my fork of URI for the pack exper thing.
and with that goodnight
AlexDaniel but it's funny
m: my %h = <1 a>; gather for %h -> $k, $v { take 1 } 02:00
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤ in code at /tmp/HKVx8GP5cC:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/HKVx8GP5cC:1␤␤»
AlexDaniel why? Why now it has no problem finding the line number?
anyway, I'll just rakudobug it 02:01
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skids m: gather for 1,2,3 { $^k, $^v; take 1;} 02:06
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤»
skids m: gather for 1 { $^k, $^v; take 1;}
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤ in code at /tmp/h3cDaNSv_Q:1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/h3cDaNSv_Q:1␤␤»
AlexDaniel m: gather for 1,2,3 -> $k, $v { take 1 } 02:07
camelia rakudo-moar 93c6c9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 1␤»
AlexDaniel oh right, that is shorter
ab6tract TimToady++ / camelia++ # nice blog post! 02:11
dalek kudo/nom: 1e5c2a4 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/World.nqp:
suppress enter_result warning a better way
llfourn .tell tadzik PR for your consideration github.com/tadzik/Shell-Command/pull/8 :) 02:12
yoleaux llfourn: I'll pass your message to tadzik.
TimToady m: die "phoo" 02:13
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«phoo␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/M2lPyU5Jfg line 1␤␤»
TimToady claims another colon, in some sense or other 02:14
ab6tract m: my $z; while ++$z < 5 { $z } # i thought that this leaves a list on the stack now? 02:15
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/qD1K7aExf2:␤Useless use of $z in sink context (line 1)␤»
ab6tract m: my $z; say while ++$z < 5 { $z } 02:17
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/pVvDKpyOcH␤Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun␤at /tmp/pVvDKpyOcH:1␤------> 3…»
02:19 shmibs left
ab6tract TimToady: did I misunderstand your fixes from yesterday? i thought that it would fix this: 02:19
02:19 shmibs joined
ab6tract m: sub f($x) { my $z; while ++$z < $x { $z }; say f(5) 02:19
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/pa7WNLbPTI␤Missing block (taken by some undeclared routine?)␤at /tmp/pa7WNLbPTI:1␤------> 3 my $z; while ++$z < $x { $z }; say f(5)7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤ statem…»
02:19 twatmonger left
ab6tract m: sub f($x) { my $z; while ++$z < $x { $z } }; say f(5) 02:19
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/Bh1vER8cM3:␤Useless use of $z in sink context (line 1)␤sub infix:«<» (Mu $?, Mu $?) { #`(Sub+{<anon|58275344>}|57596376) ... }␤»
02:20 CasketBase joined
TimToady while at statementlist level is never wanted, you have to use parens 02:23
m: sub f($x) { my $z; (while ++$z < $x { $z }) }; say f(5)
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«Cannot call prefix:<++>(Any); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:D $a is rw)␤ (Mu:U $a is rw)␤ (Int:D $a is rw)␤ (int $a is rw)␤ (Bool $a is rw)␤ (Num:D $a is rw)␤ (Num:U $a is rw)␤ (num $a is rw)␤ in block <uni…»
TimToady er, hmm
that's...odd...
m: sub f($x) { (while ++(my $z) < $x { $z }) }; say f(5) 02:24
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«Cannot call prefix:<++>(Any); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:D $a is rw)␤ (Mu:U $a is rw)␤ (Int:D $a is rw)␤ (int $a is rw)␤ (Bool $a is rw)␤ (Num:D $a is rw)␤ (Num:U $a is rw)␤ (num $a is rw)␤ in block <uni…»
ab6tract TimToady: i get () as the return value locally.. that almost looks like a autoviv bug??
TimToady m: sub f($x) { my $z; do while ++$z < $x { $z } }; say f(5)
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«Cannot call prefix:<++>(Any); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:D $a is rw)␤ (Mu:U $a is rw)␤ (Int:D $a is rw)␤ (int $a is rw)␤ (Bool $a is rw)␤ (Num:D $a is rw)␤ (Num:U $a is rw)␤ (num $a is rw)␤ in block <uni…»
TimToady something's not right there 02:25
AlexDaniel oh wow, these bug reports by zefram are awesome
TimToady yeah, he's good
02:25 FROGGS_ joined
TimToady m: sub f($x) { my $z; do $z while ++$z < $x }; say f(5) 02:26
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«Cannot call prefix:<++>(Any); none of these signatures match:␤ (Mu:D $a is rw)␤ (Mu:U $a is rw)␤ (Int:D $a is rw)␤ (int $a is rw)␤ (Bool $a is rw)␤ (Num:D $a is rw)␤ (Num:U $a is rw)␤ (num $a is rw)␤ in block <uni…»
ab6tract m: ++(my $f)
camelia ( no output )
TimToady m: sub f($x) { my $z; return do $z while ++$z < $x }; say f(5)
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«(5 5 5 5)␤»
02:26 cpage_ left
TimToady m: sub f($x) { my $z; return (while ++$z < $x { $z }) }; say f(5) 02:27
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«(5 5 5 5)␤»
ab6tract interesting and bizarre :)
TimToady works with explicit return, anyway
so at least there's a workaround
ab6tract indeed!
diakopter m: sub f($x) { my $z; Nil while ++$z < $x }; say f(5)
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«sub infix:«<» (Mu $?, Mu $?) { #`(Sub+{<anon|58275344>}|77085112) ... }␤»
diakopter ahh precedence 02:28
ab6tract i have to admit that most times i get into golfing bugs, it's for cases that may never be useful :)
TimToady well, that's just what happens to be sitting on the stack, I suspect
ab6tract TimToady: shall I rakudobug?
TimToady sure, we can decide if it's blocking later 02:29
prolly not though
diakopter m: sub f($x) { my $z; Nil while ++$z < $x }; say f(5)(4)
camelia rakudo-moar 6471e8: OUTPUT«True␤»
TimToady cute...that probably should not leak
02:29 FROGGS left
diakopter the sub is returning a sub 02:30
TimToady kinda sorta by accident
I can think of a way to fix that, which might or might not be the best way 02:31
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AlexDaniel “Sent by the Internet” woo! Marketing!! 02:32
02:33 CasketBase left
diakopter my signature is Sent by an Internet 02:34
ab6tract also, that's a super interesting thunk form! 'do $z while ++$z < $x'
02:34 shmibs left
ab6tract took me a minute to grok that 02:34
diakopter it's not supposed to be
02:34 shmibs joined
diakopter until TimToady makes it work out with a few hundred cavitations 02:35
02:35 Su-Shee left
diakopter excavitations 02:35
ab6tract diakopter: sorry, what? 02:36
diakopter don't mind my loose association drivel. but it's not supposed to be a thunk
ab6tract why is that not supposed to be a thunk? 02:37
diakopter bc t's the statement form of do 02:38
it's
TimToady testing a patch for that bit of it
well, compiling, then testing :)
diakopter it's supposed to mean the same as $z while ++$z < $x, except the do emphasizes the immediate evaluation?? 02:39
TimToady do takes it out of statementlist context, which allows it to return a list value 02:40
ab6tract ah, ok i think i'm starting to get it..
TimToady at statementlist level it's always self-sinking
and should return Nil 02:41
patch dint werk, thinking
diakopter we need proofs, not tests or uncertain fixes <- this is my new(ish) lifelong refrain 02:42
TimToady could have something to do with botching the patch...
diakopter TIL that livestream lost my password to a hack, and Hyatt hotels lost my payment card to "all our payment computers had/have malware" 02:44
02:45 ilbot3 left, ab6tract left
skids m: start { sleep 3; "TO".say; exit }; sub f { ( loop { last if $++ > 3; 42; } ) }; f().perl.say; 02:45
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«TO␤»
02:47 rurban left 02:48 ab6tract joined
dpk p6: say "happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday Perl 6, happy birthday to me" 02:48
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«happy birthday to me, happy birthday to me, happy birthday Perl 6, happy birthday to me␤»
02:49 ilbot3 joined
ab6tract i read that as a thunk-ing version of do { $z } while ++$z < 5 ... 02:49
diakopter I actually suspect it's a parsing problem
(the error about ++ not accepting candidates) 02:50
ab6tract so i guess i'm still confused about why it's wrong, when thunking has been explained to be as auto-bracketing
but i can wait for the Butterfly Book to fully grok statementlist ;)
ab6tract is glad that no one is pushing the 'but camelia is actually a moth' position :) 02:51
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orange_ what's the latest news about Perl6 02:53
PoopyShoes m: "5".Rat.FatRat 02:54
camelia ( no output )
02:54 krshn_ left
PoopyShoes m: say "5".Rat.FatRat 02:54
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«5␤»
PoopyShoes m: say "5".FatRat
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«Method 'FatRat' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/VClNcqsU7r line 1␤␤»
TimToady the ++ problem is likely having to do with sneaking an extra scope in there
ab6tract TimToady: fwiw, the ++ issue doesn't happen locally with a rakudo i just built an hour ago.. 02:55
PoopyShoes is the above a bug guys? Why do I have to .Rat my Str before I can fatten it?
's almost like some implicit conversion would be fun here.... 02:56
skids orange_: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2015/12/22/...e-release/
ab6tract PoopyShoes: looks like there is no coercion to FatRat implemented in Str 02:57
PoopyShoes ab6tract: looks precisely like that, I'm just wondering why I have to go round the houses here
ab6tract no reason for implicit anything... it's just a question of whether Str has a method FatRat { ... }
PoopyShoes Implicit something would belie baving to implement the coercion on a crossproduct basis, though... 02:58
*baving == having
IDK how rakudo works, sorry
skids: Great. Now I'm going to be reading blogs on perl6 for the next half hour. I hope you're happy. 02:59
I am :) 03:00
03:00 labster left
skids have fun :-) 03:01
ab6tract PoopyShoes: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2014/12/...us-corner/ 03:03
03:03 Guest54696 left
ab6tract it's a bit ramble-y but hopefully that will help get the hang of coercion in perl 6 03:03
m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class Str { method FatRat { self.Rat.FatRat } }; say "5".FatRat 03:04
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«5␤»
TimToady FatRats are a little dangerous, and contagious, so we try not to let people get them by accident, but maybe this is a valid coercion, since it's explicit
03:05 labster joined
thomax why are they dangerous? 03:05
TimToady m: say "5" + 0.FatRat
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«5␤»
03:06 krshn left
TimToady because they can slow down exponentially if you're not careful 03:06
thomax ok.
TimToady why we limit Rat denominators to 64 bits
diakopter I've always wondered why unmatched parens aren't okay
thomax i thought they could bite me in my..
TimToady they'll just bite your ankles, hang on, and slow you down 03:07
AlexDaniel TimToady: is it 64 bits on 32-bit system as well?
diakopter why not let them imply a matching one at the beginning/end of the input (or just after/before the last one of that spin) 03:08
TimToady yes
diakopter: redundancy is good 03:09
diakopter (say 55).say) # basically it eliminates any doubled/tripled parens ever
ab6tract diakopter: wow. auto-matching parens? even perl has never been so insane as to help out with that
thomax i hope p6 didn;t overdone the operator / syntax shuffle. << is now +<, ?: is now ??||, for is now loop, etc
ab6tract thomax: for is not loop, only the why-would-you-ever-use-it C version is 03:10
TimToady oh, we overdid it on purpose :)
diakopter say 55).say
I hate doubled up parens when the count can just be implied anyway 03:11
TimToady now, even there it's ambiguous
*no
uruwi The TI-83+ does that.
cxreg thomax: ??!! btw, not ??||
TimToady though the effect comes out the same in this case
diakopter why, just make it match as far back as possible 03:12
cygx thomax: I've actually started to like ?? !! better than ? :
thomax what does the book publisher think about the 6.c release?
cygx curse you, perl6 - now my Perl5 and C coding 'feels' wrong! 03:13
uruwi Well, someone could create a slang that autocloses parens.
diakopter autocloses and opens
03:13 ab6tract_ joined
diakopter but yes, it would admittedly be much easier to imagine such an implmentation in the Perl 6 grammar 03:14
uruwi Auto-opening... now even the TI-83+ doesn't do that!
03:14 risou is now known as risou_awy, risou_awy is now known as risou, ab6tract left
skids braces too? 03:15
uruwi Probably
skids well then "as far back as possible" is always the beginning of the compunit. 03:16
diakopter or the previous opener
XD 03:17
03:18 ab6tract_ left
cxreg tries exercism.io/languages/perl6 03:18
TimToady testing new patch over dinner...well, not *over* dinner... 03:19
well, I guess the computer is upstairs to dinner, so maybe it is...
afk &
03:19 krshn joined 03:20 noganex_ joined, kid51 left
thomax hopes that epic, the eclipse plugin, will release a epic6 soon 03:21
03:23 noganex left
PoopyShoes Is there much scope for a FatRat with a particular precision? I'm thinking something like clojure's `(with-precision 10 (/ 1M 6))` --- which gives `0.1666666667M` 03:24
I'm sure it's implementable _within_ the framework of perl6, but it might be frustratingly slow... oh I don't know, I'm going back to flam people who didn't like the new Star Wars 03:25
skids PoopyShoes: custom types are certainly possible, even MoarVM can be extended if someone wanted to go that deep. 03:26
krshn Are there any Perl6 related talks scheduled for the upcoming year that we can look forward to ?
thomax PoopyShoes: i don't know anything about the new star wars. but i think i could hate it.
PoopyShoes skids: It's beginning to sound like my family won't see much of me over Christmas. I'll explore that possibility. Ta
thomax: You might, but only if you meant to 03:27
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AlexDaniel krshn: what about watching existing ones? :) 03:28
krshn Finished most of them :-) 03:32
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thomax junkie 03:33
krshn Now.. but need to start writing more code in perl6. For some reason, perl5 has become so second nature, and because I am lazy ;) 03:34
Exaggerated when I said I saw most of them.. I saw a few of them but unless I actually coded more in perl6, I found it hard to follow may talks by jnthn for ex 03:35
PoopyShoes krshm: perl5 is crazy and if it is second nature to you you are a crazy person ;) But you should look at scala. I've been learning perl6 by translating little scripts from one to the other. They're almost perfect analogues until you start getting into their 'killer features'. 03:36
krshn but today, I have resolved to finish going through perl6intro 03:37
I have hard a lot about Scala -- also finished seeing this video: www.youtube.com/watch?v=LH75sJAR0hc 03:38
But I have my heart set on perl6, esp. because I love perl so much. 03:40
PoopyShoes Yeah, I use scala every day, but I've already introduced one tiny text munging perl6 into the utils set, and want to add more :)
they're very similar, though 03:41
until you really need one or the other
dalek kudo/nom: eea4cb0 | TimToady++ | src/ (2 files):
more s/:/ line /
kudo/nom: e34842f | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
suppress accidental return of final loop
PoopyShoes hence using perl for text
krshn PoopyShoes: cool
thomax i just hope the industry will adopt p6, so that all the efforts in developing p6 will be justified 03:42
PoopyShoes I fully intend to secretly use it on my machine as much as possible. When things need to be shared -- oh, sorry, you'll just have to get used to p6
krshn I somehow feel scientific computing will be perl6 calling card
AlexDaniel thomax: I don't really care about this one 03:43
PoopyShoes All the power of J, but not crap
AlexDaniel thomax: Perl 6 is already extremely useful to me
PoopyShoes AlexDaniel: What do you mainly use it for? 03:44
Or is that blogged already
krshn atleast it is my secret wish ;-). then I can do away with coding in anything else
TimToady me too, though that's not so secret :) 03:45
PoopyShoes krshm: You'll need the performance wins before it becomes legit for those high-end tasks, though
krshn TimToady: lol
PoopyShoes I'm guestimating 2 years
AlexDaniel PoopyShoes: small projects, throw-away scripts, tests for C code that I'm writing (using NativeCall). Stuff like that 03:46
PoopyShoes Great for anything one off task that takes under a few minutes, though!
huh
AlexDaniel: never thought of writing tests _in_ it 03:47
probably because I still suck at p6
AlexDaniel PoopyShoes: also whenever somebody asks me “how can I write code that does X” I just show them an example in Perl 6 and let them figure out how to do that in their language.
PoopyShoes but that's a thought right there
AlexDaniel PoopyShoes: it happens to be shorter than pseudo-code so…
PoopyShoes AlexDaniel: I was trying to do that a few days ago with the countdown code :) Ended up doing it in scala because of that bug I couldn't find 03:48
(Yeah, sorry, haven't settled on a handle yet)
(This is my second outing here and I'm drunk anyway)(
krshn PoopyShoes: today is my first :-). 03:49
PoopyShoes krshm: high five
krshn: high five (with more accuracy)
krshn cheers
mspo I'd like to see something like erlang's ranch + cowboy start to show up 03:50
TimToady m: sub f($x) { my $z; while ++$z < $x { say "hi" } }; say f(5) 03:51
camelia rakudo-moar 1e5c2a: OUTPUT«hi␤hi␤hi␤hi␤sub infix:«<» (Mu $?, Mu $?) { #`(Sub+{<anon|63105296>}|47520344) ... }␤»
TimToady m: sub f($x) { my $z; while ++$z < $x { say "hi" } }; say f(5)
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«hi␤hi␤hi␤hi␤Nil␤»
TimToady better
now to see if I can do something about that ++ mess
krshn why does the REPL in perl6 suck so bad? even sqlite3 has better REPL 03:52
AlexDaniel m: my \pi = pi; say pi # by the way, what is happening here?
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Mu)␤»
TEttinger what's different between those two lines, TimToady?
TimToady it's better than perl5's, but that's not sayin' much
AlexDaniel krshn: have you tried linenoise?
TimToady TEttinger: nothing :)
TEttinger wow, last second bugfixes ftw
TimToady actually, if you look carefully, you'll see it's running a different version
TEttinger ah yeah 03:53
PoopyShoes AlexDaniel: I have the same complaint. What's linenoise?
TimToady and I know just about how long a recompile takes, which makes it easy to do before/after
it's a readline clone-ish
AlexDaniel PoopyShoes, krshn: modules.perl6.org/#q=noise 03:54
TimToady panda install Linenoise
or use rlwrap
I'm not sure any of them handles Unicode right, though
krshn I just did on mac on top of rakudo 2015.11. I use vim key bindings and non of them work 03:55
when I try ctrl-p, it does not work
sqlite3 handles them perfectly :-(
I should probably try on my linux with latest perl6/moar/panda 03:56
PoopyShoes TimToady: IDK if this is inappropriate querying for IRC, but are you the real Larry Wall Timtowtd? Just, y'know, to confirm that this whole channel is a beautiful dream
krshn I was gushing like a teenager a little while back for the same reason :-) 03:57
cygx krshn: what about `rlwrap perl6`?
krshn cygx: i have not tried it yet
will do now
TimToady PoopyShoes: I would shoot myself if I were not the real me. 03:58
AlexDaniel PoopyShoes: yes, we would shoot him if he is not real 04:00
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mspo but how can you ever know which one is real? 04:02
TimToady well, usually they're all me 04:03
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PoopyShoes *swoons* 04:03
krshn cygx, TimToady: rlwarp is perfect. Thanks 04:04
works perfectly with vim command line bindings 04:05
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PoopyShoes krshn: I tried to 'PM' you... did you get that? If you -- like me -- are using a browser, there may be an extra tab ? 04:08
But, like, under the real tabs. IRC is too hardcore for me 04:09
AlexDaniel m: enum Animal (Cat => 2005, Dog => 3, Mouse => 25); my $x = Date.new(Cat, Dog, Mouse); say "{$x.year}-{$x.month}-{$x.day}" 04:10
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Cat-3-25␤»
04:10 joydong joined
AlexDaniel damn, on my machine that's Cat-Dog-Mouse 04:10
but damn, that's very clever. Zefram++ 04:11
cygx 'night o/
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cxreg if I accidentally declare class Foo when I've previously said "unit module Foo;" then Foo.can("bar") errors with Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3 04:21
could be more helpful 04:22
04:22 yqt left
AlexDaniel cxreg: consider submitting rakudobug :) 04:23
04:24 spannerMallet left
cxreg not sure what the right thing would be? 04:24
disallowing the class Foo ?
fixing .can?
AlexDaniel cxreg: list a couple of possible solutions then :) 04:25
skids m: unit module Foo; class Foo { method bar { }}; Foo.can("bar").say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(bar)␤»
cxreg actually it happens for any "unit module". will look at submitting
AlexDaniel m: unit module Foo; class Foo { }; Foo.can("bar").say 04:26
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«()␤»
cxreg ... ? hrm. 04:27
skids what version rakudo?
AlexDaniel cxreg: yeah, I usually try the golfed down code on camelia just in case :) 04:28
cxreg 1e5c2a4
skids oh so pretty much bleeding edge.
cxreg just built it 04:29
camelia is 2 commits ahead
i'm gonna try scrapping all of brew, maybe i have something nasty 04:30
i wonder if github suports git repack. the repos are getting painful to clone 04:35
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[Coke] (bugfixes) those are ok, but they need passing tests in roast. 04:48
and probably eyes from one other committer.
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[Coke] (star release) has anyone signed up to do the star release, or am I implicitly on the hook for that? 04:56
cxreg AlexDaniel: so it repros from file but not with -e 04:58
o.O
skids Hrm I can't repro from file. 04:59
cxreg gist.github.com/cxreg/ded31eeedf2d021c15d2 05:00
skids Oh the .can from another compunit OK. 05:01
cxreg but it happens even if i remove the class
[Coke] catchs up and sees he is not on the hook for R*. 05:03
cxreg skids: i discovered this trying to go through the exercism perl6 set 05:04
skids m: unit module Foo; Foo.can("bar").say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/CZGBnLKJ1h line 1␤␤»
skids Which is probaby related to: 05:05
cxreg ah there we go
skids m: unit module Foo; Foo.HOW.WHAT.say;
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(ModuleHOW)␤»
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skids m: unit module Foo; Foo.HOW.WHAT.say; class Foo { }; Foo.HOW.WHAT.say; 05:06
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(ModuleHOW)␤(ClassHOW)␤»
cxreg and the fact that that "shadowing" acts differently across compunits? not sure if even doing so should be allowed 05:07
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skids cxreg: I think it is actually correct behavior, just an LTA error. 05:13
When you do "unit module Foo; class Foo { }" you are defining class Foo::Foo.
cxreg oh, and in the other unit (outside of that lexical scope) Foo is the module but inside it becomes the class? 05:15
ok that appears correct
skids Right, but a module should probably have a better response to .can and such than "not enough args" 05:16
cxreg hilariously, if you pass no args it says too few 05:17
skids m: unit module Foo; Foo.^find_method("can").candidates».signature.say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«((Mu \SELF: $name, *%_))␤»
skids m: unit module Foo; Foo.can(Foo,"bar").say; 05:18
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/7oQB6CzE42 line 1␤␤»
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skids Ah, it's because ^can a.k.a. ModuleHOW.can defaults back to Mu's .can, where HOW methods get passed HOW,obj,<args> 05:24
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skids But Mu's non-introspective form just wants obj,<args> 05:24
cxreg skids++ 05:32
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skids m: unit package Foo; Foo.can(Foo,"bar").say; 05:34
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/yJ8HQrnpRQ line 1␤␤»
skids m: Str(Any).can("foo") 05:35
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Method 'can' not found for invocant of class 'Perl6::Metamodel::CoercionHOW'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mbrRcP_CwR line 1␤␤»
skids That does not inherit .can from Mu apparently 05:36
m: (subset Foo of Str).can("foo").say 05:38
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Too many positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 3␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/cOaqEq0HCQ line 1␤␤»
05:41 felher left
[Coke] t/spec/S32-array/adverbs.t failing test 21 for anyone else? 05:44
t/spec/S17-procasync/stress.t is dying.
t/spec/S32-io/IO-Socket-Async.t also dying 05:46
(even when run individually)
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skids [Coke] yesterday I remember adverbs fails on both array and hash IIRC 05:57
ugexe did ranguard take license into consideration for the distributions he chose to upload to pause? should a 3rd party upload another authors unlicensed work to pause?
s/unlicensed/no explicit license/ 05:58
skids cxreg: RT#127018 06:02
rt.perl.org/SelfService/Display.html?id=127018 # synopsenonbot 06:03
AlexDaniel .tell Skarsnik have you tried getting “timestamp”s from some table? Today I noticed that ｢.allrows｣ gives me “Any” instead of some meaningful timestamp 06:08
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to Skarsnik.
AlexDaniel .tell Skarsnik that's on postgresql though 06:10
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to Skarsnik.
autarch TimToady: I like your advent post
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tmw1 What's the best book for learning perl6 these days? Have a pretty good knowledge of 5, but not much OO experience 06:13
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AlexDaniel tmw1: no good enough book yet, I'm afraid 06:14
tmw1: though there are many other interesting resources 06:15
tmw1 that's a shame, I like a good book. What resources do you recommend?
AlexDaniel tmw1: like doc.perl6.org/ or rosettacode or perl6advent.wordpress.com/
tmw1: though that's not what you wanted, I think 06:16
tmw1 thanks
06:16 regreg left
AlexDaniel tmw1: still, for example advent posts are very interesting to read and you learn about perl 6 itself 06:17
tmw1 yeah, I guess I'll have to take what I can get
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AlexDaniel tmw1: and on doc.perl6 there is this section: doc.perl6.org/language.html 06:18
tmw1: which is more structured, you might like it
tmw1 yeah, I think this will work, thanks
maybe one day we'll get a new camel book
AlexDaniel sure!
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AlexDaniel I think that there were attempts to write a book, but I don't think that those had any chance to succeed. Perl 6 was evolving quite fast before this Christmas, perhaps we will see less revolutionary changes next year, thus there will be a chance to write a book :) 06:20
tmw1 that makes sense
AlexDaniel another thing is that we don't know yet how idiomatic Perl 6 will look like 06:21
awwaiid tmw1: also, as you learn and find holes in doc.perl6.org, please file issues (or PRs). There are tons of holes, but having a TODO list is great
tmw1 will do! 06:22
AlexDaniel tmw1++ 06:23
awwaiid I just discovered that `MAIN` isn't documented well on doc.perl6.org, for example, and so opened up an issue github.com/perl6/doc/issues/259 so I don't forget to do it 06:25
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AlexDaniel .tell Skarsnik Adding ｢1114 => 'Str', # timestamp｣ to ｢lib/DBDish/Pg/Native.pm6｣ seems to solve the problem temporarily, but I don't think that it is right. Do you have any ideas how to make it better? 06:32
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to Skarsnik.
06:32 cpage_ joined
AlexDaniel .tell Skarsnik ah… OK, I open a new issue: github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/41 06:37
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to Skarsnik.
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[Tux] test 50000 23.661 23.549 06:54
test-t 50000 13.903 13.791
csv-parser 50000 50.787 50.675
www.facebook.com/419562134853848/p...mp;theater => scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1...e=56DA2930 07:05
dalek c/phasers: 243908a | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
Further refinement of Phasers doc, maybe even useable
 07:11
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awwaiid Someone might have said this before, but I feel like a lot of reference docs should live more alongside roast. Maybe I'll someday look into at least doing cross-checks for doc coverage 07:16
dalek c/phasers: 118835a | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/phasers.pod:
Modify subtitle a bit
 07:23
krshn tmw1: Try perl6intro.com/. I asked the same question earlier today and was referred to this one. I am going through it as we chat. 07:25
dalek c: 26e5b69 | (Brock Wilcox)++ | Makefile:
Add make clean target based on gitignore
 07:26
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awwaiid Enough doc-ticket-smashing for tonight I guess. 07:51
awwaiid is getting psyched
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krshn perl6intro mentions 3 naming conventions. The Kebab case seems very interesting. Never seen it before. 07:53
xtreak Posted Larry's announcement to r/programming :)
AlexDaniel krshn: yeah, well. A lot of programming languages don't allow dashes, that's probably why 07:55
m: my $what-about'quote'case = 5 07:56
camelia ( no output )
hankache hello #perl6
hankache looks for his glasses
krshn AlexDaniel: Is it very popular in perl6 community? I have not read much perl6 code yet.
AlexDaniel krshn: definitely not rare
hankache krshn yes kebab case is popular in Perl 6 community
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Su-Shee good morning. when is official release hour? ;) 08:00
AlexDaniel Eh! Wrote an email to debian maintainer of “rakudo” package and received an answer “next week or so”. Well, better next week than next year, right? 08:02
looking at the calendar… next week is also possibly next year :/ 08:03
hankache AlexDaniel next week is next year :) 08:04
AlexDaniel hankache: only one half of it
krshn How does perl6 calcuate 3 ** 19999 ? perl gives inf 08:05
AlexDaniel krshn: well, Perl 6 has Rats 08:06
awwaiid very carefully
AlexDaniel krshn: instead of typical floating-point stuff 08:07
awwaiid m: say 3 ** 19999
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«8871011424058065973260672374154714571421010996467885015115710929898310137452945851304429162059393570233821582653516803167382678594922333243233401114450897594812655850097238851933466017741150968631087784907969243102046747080031512493303046916206444127860450…»
krshn Is there any promotion of types going on?
AlexDaniel m: (3¹⁹⁹⁹).chars.say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«954␤»
AlexDaniel m: (3¹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹).chars.say
xtreak perl6.org/compilers/features is not updated
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
AlexDaniel krshn: promotion of types? No, it's just that everything is a Rat 08:08
m: (3¹⁹⁹⁹⁹).chars.say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«9542␤»
awwaiid krshn: I don't know how many bits it is allowing in it's integer
AlexDaniel m: (3¹⁹⁹⁹⁹⁹).chars.say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«95424␤»
AlexDaniel krshn: hmmm I'm actually telling the wrong thing
krshn: if we are working with Int's then it's all about bigints 08:09
krshn: that is, unlimited, at least in theory
m: (3¹⁹⁹⁹⁹).WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Int)␤»
AlexDaniel m: (3.5¹⁹⁹⁹⁹).WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
AlexDaniel whoah!
m: (3.5¹⁹⁹⁹⁹).say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
krshn So in the type hierarchy, BigInt is a Int
AlexDaniel m: (3.0¹⁹⁹⁹⁹).say
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«8871011424058065973260672374154714571421010996467885015115710929898310137452945851304429162059393570233821582653516803167382678594922333243233401114450897594812655850097238851933466017741150968631087784907969243102046747080031512493303046916206444127860450…»
AlexDaniel how come it silently changes it to Num? 08:10
krshn interesting
AlexDaniel krshn: no, it's just Int. That's how Ints work in perl6
krshn: if you want something more dumb then you can use native ints like 08:11
m: my int $x = 3; say $x¹⁹⁹⁹# let's see if it works
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«5826237505742172032199915397215535235096874958117295059372960039368954220757584964304954899548937036918696502320484255295904561452918362158381380673645461606243041266966590597938432094927735078397730475605014746864702967381668335492713119396419006351342018…»
AlexDaniel nope. Well…
awwaiid m: say (3.5 ** 19999).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
awwaiid m: say (3.0 ** 19999).WHAT 08:12
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
AlexDaniel m: say (3.5**63).WHAT 08:13
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Rat)␤»
AlexDaniel m: say (3.5**64).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(Num)␤»
krshn So a number is more constrained than a Int?
AlexDaniel krshn: yeah, it's just a normal floating point
krshn AlexDaniel: with 64 bits ? 08:14
(or a fixed number of bits)? 08:15
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AlexDaniel krshn: “On most platforms, it's an IEEE 754 64-bit floating point numbers, aka "double precision".” 08:15
krshn: doc.perl6.org/type/Num
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krshn I really love perl6 -- it has got a Cool type .. How cool is that! 08:16
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AlexDaniel um, can anybody tell why 1.3⁶³ is a Num and not Rat? 08:16
awwaiid "To prevent the numerator and denominator from becoming pathologically large, the denominator is limited to 64 bit storage. On overflow of the denominator a Num (floating-point number) is returned instead."
AlexDaniel okay, right 08:17
awwaiid So says doc.perl6.org/type/Rat
AlexDaniel which means that we can use FatRat instead
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AlexDaniel m: say (3.5.FatRat ** 1999).WHAT 08:17
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(FatRat)␤»
krshn awwaiid, AlexDaniel: thanks for the clarifications
awwaiid hasn't heard of FatRat
AlexDaniel m: say (3.5.FatRat ** 1999)
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«3908594856673225867459754002670259373811400266845456460424451885859793567912033986871842169304143622039379408590343278414508064984527132097640557167925452623259893176422086544770930264581232866044354347181678427624685940688247646486393149784812532366264677…»
awwaiid m: (3.5.FatRat ** 1999).WHAT.say 08:18
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(FatRat)␤»
awwaiid fancy
AlexDaniel awwaiid: I was aware of that but didn't expect the denominator to overflow
awwaiid yeah -- also interesting that it goes Rat -> Num instead of Rat -> FatRat
krshn say (3.5.FatRat ** 19999) is taking foreever on my computer
awwaiid krshn: maybe that's why it falls back to Num :) 08:19
AlexDaniel m: say (3.5.FatRat ** 19999).WHAT
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(FatRat)␤»
AlexDaniel m: say (3.5.FatRat ** 199999)
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«(timeout)»
AlexDaniel krshn: well, 19999 should not be a problem 08:20
awwaiid: a good clue is that it turns into a Num when you do **64 and not when you do **63 :)
awwaiid def
krshn AlexDaniel: I finally got an answer 08:21
AlexDaniel how did I miss that. Okay, I'd better get some sleep
awwaiid me too
krshn awwaiid: nice one 08:22
oh.. that was AlexDaniel
08:22 vv3 left
AlexDaniel awwaiid: that's not so interesting actually 08:22
awwaiid: I think that it was decided that FatRat math is opt-in
so that it does not blow up when you don't expect it to 08:23
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krshn AlexDaniel: makes sense 08:23
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sjn \o 08:24
good *, #perl6, and merry x-mas :) 08:25
timotimo oh my. i merged that pull request for uri-escape even though people on the channel vetoed it
Su-Shee sjn: hey ;)
sjn almost wrote merry z-mas, but I'm not sure we're quite at that stage yet :)
RabidGravy ah, Shell::Command is broken by github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/4355eacf82 08:26
awwaiid ah timotimo, is that why random things are breaking like the doc build?
RabidGravy "sub cp($from as Str, $to as Str, :$r) "
hence, panda is broken
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AlexDaniel RabidGravy: just in time! :) 08:28
RabidGravy let's just test again
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: so according to the commit message it should be ｢cp(Str() $from, Str() $to, :$r)｣ 08:29
RabidGravy: as simple as that
RabidGravy yep
AlexDaniel ahhh it is fixed already 08:30
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krshn AlexDaniel: keyboard seq for superscript? 08:31
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AlexDaniel krshn: depends. 08:31
krshn: For example Compose, ^ 2 should give you ²
krshn: I have a dead key for that though 08:32
RabidGravy AlexDaniel, just not in the version that panda bootstraps itself with
krshn AlexDaniel: REPL?
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AlexDaniel krshn: it's a keyboard layout feature, that's everywhere. Not sure if there is any special way to do that in your terminal though 08:32
timotimo i have a nice fix for uri escape now
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krshn AlexDaniel: got it 08:33
timotimo awwaiid: huh? i have no clue.
i mean, i have no idea what you're talking about; can you show a travis log or something?
AlexDaniel krshn: basically to use all the unicode stuff I highly recommend you to set your Compose Key to something
08:33 vv3 joined
AlexDaniel krshn: this way you can insert a lot of unicode stuff without changing your layout much 08:34
krshn Compose key equivalent on Mac?
I already have setup my caps lock to esc
(vi :-))
I will come up with something 08:35
so what is the idea here -- you set the compose key to what?
timotimo github.com/perl6-community-modules...fb4971432a - check it!
isn't it a good improvement?
RabidGravy yes 08:36
Su-Shee krshn: if mac supports the iso standard, you can just input the codepoint with a keyboard shortcut you'd have to google. it's ctrl-u on linux.
krshn: no configuration necessary. 08:37
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stmuk www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLxa...OcInCYStzK 08:37
my slides will be updated and linked later
timotimo stmuk: awesome! 08:38
regretfully don't have time to watch stuff now, really
oh, how was the emperor's new programming language?
08:38 vv3 left
timotimo the abstract sounded somewhat like uninformed ranting and uselessness in general 08:38
stmuk its there so we can see (probably post xmas) 08:39
I think it was supposed to be more positive than the summary suggested
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AlexDaniel Su-Shee: Somehow I don't think that it is much easier to remember a bunch of numbers than to change your setup… 08:39
timotimo stmuk: well, at least the illusion to "the emperor's new clothes" is a pretty negative thing in my eyes 08:40
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Su-Shee krshn: oh you even get a nice menu: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unicode_input see macos. 08:40
timotimo ah well. i'd rather have a positive-ish talk than a terrible rant :) 08:41
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timotimo BBIAB 08:41
08:42 vv3 joined
krshn Su-Shee: Cmd+Ctrl+Space seems to be what I should be looking for 08:42
Su-Shee: thanks for the link
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Su-Shee krshn: it should work almost everywhere. 08:43
krshn Su-Shee: still not sure how to get superscripts 08:45
still looking
timotimo i liked the TT post again this year :) 08:47
stmuk timotimo: yes I didn't attend that talk based on the summary
krshn what code should I be searching for for superscript?
timotimo better not to attend than to stand in the back row and "boo!" or hold up a sign ;)
Su-Shee krshn: some apps seem to use cmd ctrl + (and -) 08:48
timotimo m: (0 .. 0x10000).grep( *.uniname ~~ / SUPERSCRIPT / ).map( .chr.print )
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«WhateverCode object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that) in block <unit> at /tmp/BYn92MvYzJ line 1␤Method 'chr' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/BYn92MvYzJ line 1␤␤»
timotimo i did that thing again!
m: (0 .. 0x10000).grep({ .uniname ~~ / SUPERSCRIPT / }).map( .chr.print )
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Method 'chr' not found for invocant of class 'Any'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/9RVo7btpVf line 1␤␤»
08:48 vendethiel joined
timotimo m: (0 .. 0x10000).grep({ .uniname ~~ / SUPERSCRIPT / }).map( *.chr.print ) 08:49
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«²³¹ٰܑ⁰ⁱ⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁺⁻⁼⁽⁾ⁿﱛﱜﱝﱣﲐﳙ»
_nadim good morning
timotimo i did the other thing again, too!
i should have BBIAB'd when i wrote "BBIAB" on the channel ...
_nadim m: "abc123".=trans([0..9] => [<⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>])
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Cannot modify an immutable Str␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/mTr52gGAU_ line 1␤␤»
timotimo m: say "abc123".trans([0..9] => [<⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>]) 08:50
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc¹²³␤»
_nadim m: my $s = "abc123"; say $s.=trans([0..9] => [<⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>])
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc¹²³␤»
AlexDaniel ↑ which is faster than trying to do it by entering the hex code 08:51
Su-Shee so, when is official release? #perl tries to be ready to send people to you.
timotimo AlexDaniel: but how do you get the contents of that list without entering the hex code? :) 08:52
AlexDaniel timotimo: google it
krshn timotimo: thanks
_nadim the code above seems to be a resource hog and I mean HOG, I put it in a loop and I watch my program become a sloth
timotimo Su-Shee: well, the current release is mostly about the language becoming stable and us devs committing to not break stuff a lot any more. there'll be a rakudo-star release to go with it soon (though i don't actually know how soon. tomorrow? the day after tomorrow?) 08:53
_nadim: is the "my $s = ..." inside the loop or outside?
nine .tell TimToady That must be the lovliest announcement I've ever read. 08:54
yoleaux nine: I'll pass your message to TimToady.
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Su-Shee timotimo: are you telling me that after all the public announcement about a real release on christmas there won't be one on.. christmas? ;) 08:55
_nadim timotimo: inside of course :) but that called, say, 30 times.
run time went from 1 second to 3.5 secs 08:56
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timotimo Su-Shee: i don't know much about the christmas release, actually 08:57
08:57 user_9707 left
Su-Shee who does? 08:57
krshn m: say "abc678".trans([6..9] => [<⁶⁷⁸⁹>])
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc⁶⁷⁸⁹⁶⁷⁸⁹⁶⁷⁸⁹␤»
AlexDaniel m: say "abc678".trans([6..9] => [‘⁶’..‘⁹’]) 08:58
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc⁶⁷⁸␤»
krshn oh. shace
<space>
AlexDaniel though the range thing is not going to work from ¹ to ⁹
_nadim timotimo: this on the other hand is faster $subscript_level = "$level".comb(/./).map: { <⁰ ¹ ² ³ ⁴ ⁵ ⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>[$_]} ;
krshn say "abc678".trans([6..9] => [<⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>])
m: say "abc678".trans([6..9] => [<⁶ ⁷ ⁸ ⁹>])
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc⁶⁷⁸␤»
timotimo please don't comb(/./). either .comb() or .comb(1)
RabidGravy starts on the 29 modules that probably all need fixubg 08:59
timotimo fixbug?
AlexDaniel m: say "abc678".trans([6..9] => ‘¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹⁰’.comb)
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc¹²³␤»
timotimo BBIAB, for real this tim
AlexDaniel m: say "abc678".trans([0..9] => ‘⁰¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹’.comb)
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc⁶⁷⁸␤»
AlexDaniel why [] by the way
_nadim timotimo: old remains, it was combing more complicated stuff :)
RabidGravy it's getting off to a bad start as LibraryCheck needs a change for the dll version thing
AlexDaniel m: say "abc678".trans(0..9 => ‘⁰¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹’.comb)
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«abc⁶⁷⁸␤»
nine Su-Shee: we've done software releases for years. All that was missing was a promise of backwards compatibility. We at least try to give it now :) 09:00
Su-Shee I know. I'm waiting since 2002. I already had pugs. I just need a rough time so people who are coming to #perl aren't left hanging. 09:02
AlexDaniel hanging what. Just tell them to get rakudo and be happy :)
Su-Shee and people expect something today or tomorrow.
nine I think the plan is to create the release packages today and announce them tomorrow. 09:03
aigan_ perl6 --version
... expecting 6.0 09:04
nine aigan_: the release is called 6.c
stmuk Su-Shee: my guess is its Xmas EST sometime
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Su-Shee stmuk: ok. well that leaves it all to the estians. 09:05
nine Those yanks think christmas is on the 25th ;)
09:06 domidumont joined
AlexDaniel m: say $*PERL 09:06
camelia rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«Perl 6 (6.c)␤»
stmuk oddly the British Royal Family exchange presents on the 24th .. almost as if they were once German! 09:07
Su-Shee yeah well I just want to be able to send people over and not let them sit around waiting. ;)
09:09 Ben_Goldberg joined
aigan_ I guess this was the release then: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/d9...7658a125c8 09:09
Su-Shee ok then we'll just wait for the announcement to go with it. 09:10
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AlexDaniel aigan_: well not really: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/releases 09:10
stmuk aigan_: more steps needed than that
aigan_ perl6advent.wordpress.com/2015/12/...ted-party/
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stmuk oh my VLC icon has a Xmas hat! I forgot it did that 09:13
RabidGravy before I start fixing these modules, there aren't going to be any changes to nativecall before 6.c now are there?
Su-Shee yeah I read that but I didn't see a download link? 09:14
diakopter no, release hasn't occurred; see [Coke] 09:15
stmuk RabidGravy: perl 6 isn't the sort of thing to rush in last minute changes .. or is it ;) 09:16
Su-Shee diakopter: I'll wait then. 09:17
RabidGravy well that's the first github.com/jonathanstowe/LibraryCh...tag/v0.0.6 09:19
28 more to do
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nine RabidGravy: you're safe from me ;( 09:30
;)
timotimo wait wait wait ... christmas presents aren't always distributed on the 24th?! 09:33
are you saying my whole life has been a lie!?
dalek ast: 7e5f5db | lizmat++ | S32-temporal/Date.t:
Test for RT #127010
 09:35
09:35 brrt joined, rindolf joined 09:36 AlexDani` joined
brrt cheers #perl6 09:36
dalek kudo/nom: fb475d2 | lizmat++ | src/core/Date (2 files):
Fix for RT #127010
09:38 st_iron joined
st_iron hello 09:38
09:39 AlexDaniel left 09:40 AlexDani` is now known as AlexDaniel, pierre-vigier left, fitz left 09:41 LLamaRider joined
st_iron Merry Christmas My Friends!!! 09:41
09:41 rurban left
timotimo hello :) 09:43
09:44 yeahnoob left
st_iron good morning timotimo 09:44
timotimo now this is surprising: today's advent calendar post already has more views and visitors than yesterday's. i wonder why that is!! 09:45
xtreak I posted it to reddit r/programming
brrt it's been on hn, too
although not very popular
09:45 zhi left
timotimo reddit has a significant lead over hn in the referrers 09:46
with reddit at 163 views, twitter at 121 and hacker news at 97
xtreak Is there a version bump on github or something when the release happens? 09:48
timotimo well, rakudo already generates "6.c" as the version
RabidGravy nine++ # that's good enough for me 09:49
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el_amigo hmm 09:51
I fell out
it is my alternate nick
09:51 el_amigo is now known as st_iron
st_iron way better 09:52
dalek c: 4ee960f | labster++ | doc/Type/DateTime.pod:
document DateTime.new(Str) laxness, as brought up in RT #127002
 09:55
timotimo breakfast and celebration and family time! \o/
09:56 FROGGS_ is now known as FROGGS
FROGGS \o/ 09:56
nine Ah, time for the only christmas song I like: net.muddasheep.com/download/muddash...knight.mp3
st_iron \o/ 09:57
krshn nine: thanks for sharing 09:58
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xtreak How can I profile my programs in perl6. Is there a flag that I can pass? 10:09
RabidGravy --profie 10:10
jdv79 can anyone install DBIish?
RabidGravy --profile even
jdv79 so I can install Task::Star sans DBIish, LWP::Simple and JSON::RPC. also had to use my fork of URI for the pack exper thing. 10:11
RabidGravy let me guess, the nativecall part needs updating
I think timotimo removed the pack from URI just now 10:12
jdv79 just saw that
RabidGravy LWP::Simple is broken and there is a PR someone reported earlier
dunno JSON::RPC
jdv79 that had a dep on LWP is all i know 10:13
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jdv79 why stuff like that is in task star is beyond me 10:13
RabidGravy I think it was the best there was when Task::Star was made 10:14
jdv79 but people seem to want to install star
RabidGravy I'm going to make a Task::Audio and a Task::Author later
jdv79 best for what? i thought star was about gen purpose non-core type stuff 10:15
HTTP::Status?
RabidGravy anyway off out to get Mrs Gravy's present
ttfn
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st_iron christmas lunch is done 10:35
family is done
what else? yeah the christmas tree
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dalek Iish: cd85faf | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | lib/DBDish/ (2 files):
Added API version for sqlite/pg binding
 10:53
Iish: 32a0164 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | lib/DBDish/ (3 files):
Fix lib name for Pg/mysql/sqlite
Iish: 938cac8 | Skarsnik++ | lib/DBDish/ (3 files):
Merge pull request #40 from Skarsnik/master

Added API version for sqlite/pg binding [Don't merge yet]
AlexDaniel [Don't merge yet] – Merged! ✓ 10:54
nebuchadnezzar m: my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 } 10:55
camelia ( no output )
nebuchadnezzar m: my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 }; $double(2)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«Attempt to return outside of any Routine␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/ZfNu9lrLSX line 1␤␤»
nebuchadnezzar could it be caught at compile time?
AlexDaniel m: my $double = -> $x { $x * 2 }; $double(2)
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel m: my $double = -> $x { $x * 2 }; say $double(2)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«4␤»
nebuchadnezzar AlexDaniel: yes, I'm reading github.com/rakudo/star/blob/master...course.pdf so I saw the note about return in a pointy block 10:56
but I just wonder why it's caught at runtime and not at compile time
AlexDaniel oh, let's see 10:57
m: my $double = -> $x { $x * 2 }; sub foo { say $double(2); say ‘test’ }; foo
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«4␤test␤»
AlexDaniel m: my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 }; sub foo { say $double(2); say ‘test’ }; foo
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«Attempt to return outside of any Routine␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/nLYuurvfu5 line 1␤␤»
AlexDaniel no idea
10:58 BenGoldberg_ left
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 }; say $double(2); say ‘test’ }; foo 10:58
camelia ( no output )
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 }; say $double(2); say ‘test’ }; say foo 10:59
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«4␤»
AlexDaniel nebuchadnezzar: there we go
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AlexDaniel m: sub foo { my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 }; return $double }; say foo()() 10:59
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 1 argument but got 0␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/iwJFSki4Vi line 1␤␤»
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { my $double = -> $x { return $x * 2 }; return $double }; say foo()(2)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«Attempt to return outside of any Routine␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/X0kjqA7__k line 1␤␤»
10:59 BenGoldberg_ left 11:00 user1 left
nebuchadnezzar ok, the return in the pointy block returns from the outer sub 11:00
AlexDaniel nebuchadnezzar: yea… it's so weird
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BenGoldberg_ m: my $double = -> $x { leave($x * 2) }; say $double(2) 11:07
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«leave not yet implemented. Sorry. ␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/Hfl85w9g2c line 1␤␤»
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 2 } ... 10); 11:19
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 2 4 6 8 10)␤»
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
hankache why? ^^ 11:20
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hankache why is it jumping after 10? weird thing is if you replace 10 with 9 or 12 it works fine 11:21
is this a bug or normal behavior??
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mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 9) 11:23
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 10)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 11)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 12)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 13)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 13)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
mre m: say (0, {$_ + 3} ... 14)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
mre hankache: that doesn't appear to be doing what I expected. It seems if the lhs of the range is a result of the $_ + 3 then it stops there 11:24
hankache m: say (0,3 ... 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
hankache mre whenever we use a custom generator enclosed in {}, the endpoint seems to be skipped
timotimo if you put a code object in there, all bets are off
11:25 jcrespo left
timotimo we don't intends on trying to solve the halting problem for you 11:25
hankache timotimo is this by design?
or just a bug?
timotimo so just use * > 10
by design
11:25 jp6 joined
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... * <10); 11:26
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0)␤»
timotimo there are series that are not monotonic
other way around
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... * > 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
timotimo and you can exclude the final value by using ...^
mre m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... ^ * > 10 11:27
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/f9KYjLsWK0␤Unable to parse expression in parenthesized expression; couldn't find final ')' ␤at /tmp/f9KYjLsWK0:1␤------> 3say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... ^ * > 107⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ st…»
mre m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... ^ * > 10)
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
hankache but timotimo if one works why would the other not?
11:28 okazu joined
hankache knows nothing about how hard it is. 11:29
11:29 okazu left
mre hankache: I believe that: In you ... 10 example there is now halt point. Its says "keep adding 3 until the result is 10" which is never true. It works for 12 as that is true. 11:31
changing it to "unitl the result is greater than 10" makes it halt correctly 11:32
11:32 kjs_ joined
hankache mre indeed 11:33
dalek kudo/nom: 888ecd8 | lizmat++ | src/core/DateTime.pm:
Add max day check for moving years as well

   DateTime.new("2016-02-29T00:00:00").later(:1year)
now works and gives
   "2017-02-28T00:00:00Z"
just like
   DateTime.new("2017-01-31T00:00:00").later(:1month)
hankache what i was saying is that the average user will expect ... 10 to behave like ... * > 10
mre timotimo: t/01-sanity/55-use-trace.t is failing for me on latest nom. Seems that the line number output has changed from $filename:$line to $filename line $line. Should I change the test to match the new output
hankache so why not *magically* make one equivalent to the other 11:35
not that i know how.
mre hankache: I am not sure thats true. I was actually expecting ... 10 to be xx 10. Then when I realised what it was doing the ... * == 10 made sense
11:36 jp6 left
dalek ast: 70cca29 | lizmat++ | S32-temporal/DateTime.t:
Add test for problem fixed with 888ecd85e63a3c1ed
 11:36
hankache well anyway i guess it's a matter of perspective. I have no issue using *>10 11:37
mre TimToady: timotimo: The above seems to be as a result of TimToady's change yesterday eea4cb0ad0 11:38
hankache: it seems to be better to be explicit about what halts the loop in this case
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hankache m: say (0,3 ... 10); 11:40
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
mre TimToady: timotimo: Have fixed the test. Just checking everything passes now.
hankache mre what confuses me is why then this ^^ halts?
ZoffixWin TBH, this makes me think the "be explicit in ... end point" will become the recommended practice, simply because real-world examples would likely be something you can't be arsed calculating whether or not it'll halt on your end point 11:41
mre hankache: I suspect that uses p6's cunning range generation logic. whereas if you use a code block it can't
ZoffixWin Are there any usecases where making it halt if * > $end-point when lone $end-point is specified NOT what the user would've wanted? 11:42
Skarsnik Hey ZoffixWin, can you merge my PR in xml, so it can install? x)
yoleaux 06:08Z <AlexDaniel> Skarsnik: have you tried getting “timestamp”s from some table? Today I noticed that ｢.allrows｣ gives me “Any” instead of some meaningful timestamp
06:10Z <AlexDaniel> Skarsnik: that's on postgresql though
06:32Z <AlexDaniel> Skarsnik: Adding ｢1114 => 'Str', # timestamp｣ to ｢lib/DBDish/Pg/Native.pm6｣ seems to solve the problem temporarily, but I don't think that it is right. Do you have any ideas how to make it better?
06:37Z <AlexDaniel> Skarsnik: ah… OK, I open a new issue: github.com/perl6/DBIish/issues/41
hankache ZoffixWin i don;t
ZoffixWin Skarsnik: xml? You might got the wrong person :P
Skarsnik and Hello there 11:43
hankache ZoffixWin i don't think so
* > end-point should work properly
Skarsnik hm, I probably dreamed seeing merge on of my pr in it x)
mre hankache: I think that is a req that would need to be dealt with by one of the architects. Unless you can find a spec that says otherwise. 11:45
ZoffixWin This behaviour is especially pernicious, since there ARE conditions when it'll halt as expected (at least by me).
mre ZoffixWin: it seems that it will halt in a "* == $endpoint" situation 11:46
ZoffixWin m: say (0,3 ... 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
lizmat masak moritz is there a reason why "daycount" is not documented? Is it supposed to be an implementation detail of Dateish and friends?
Skarsnik someone know how the str (not Str) type is encoded?
ZoffixWin m: say (0,{ 3+0} ... 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 ...)␤»
ZoffixWin m: say (0,{ *+3} ... 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/FJHQApzxqO␤Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *␤at /tmp/FJHQApzxqO:1␤------> 3say (0,{ *+3}…»
ZoffixWin At this point changing it would have to be left until next language release, so we have plenty of time to think about it :P 11:47
11:47 Ben_Goldberg joined
ZoffixWin m: say 0, *+ 3 ... 10 11:47
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12 15 18 21 24 27 30 33 36 39 42 45 48 51 54 57 60 63 66 69 72 75 78 81 84 87 90 93 96 99 102 105 108 111 114 117 120 123 126 129 132 135 138 141 144 147 150 153 156 159 162 165 168 171 174 177 180 183 186 189 192 195 198 201 204 207 210 213 216 2…»
hankache i don't mind * > endpoint. What i propose it to make it behave the same way in both cases. Either ... end point works everywhere or doesn't
ZoffixWin m: say (0,3 ... 10);
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
ZoffixWin ^ that is a problem in my eyes 11:48
And...I'm late for my bus >_<
\o
11:48 ZoffixWin left
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... * > 10) 11:49
camelia rakudo-moar fb475d: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
hankache why does it stop at 12 not 9?
11:49 BenGoldberg_ left
hankache is this also by design? 11:50
mre hankache: because ! 9 > 10 11:51
so it halts at the first number after 10
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hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... * > ^10) 11:51
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
11:51 Psyche^ left
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... ^* > 10) 11:51
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
mre that I am not sure about
11:52 Psyche^ joined
hankache mre is there a way to tell it to stop before 10? 11:52
mre the ^ * > 10 should I believe do that. Don't know why it isn't
hankache m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ... ^Inf > 10)
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0)␤» 11:53
hankache :(
11:54 ZoffixWin joined
mre m: say (0, * + 3 ... ^ * > 10) 11:55
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9 12)␤»
ZoffixWin You havta put the ^ as part of the ... operator, otherwise (I think) it's interpreted as a junction
m: say (0, { $_ + 3 } ...^ * > 10)
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
mre m: say (0, * + 3 ...^ * > 10)
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
mre ZoffixWin++ aha
hankache mre ZoffixWin thanks
mre m: say (0, * + 3 ..^ * > 10)
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 WhateverCode.new)␤»
mre m: say (0, * + 3 ...^ * > 10)
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«(0 3 6 9)␤»
mre ($work laptop)-- # Killed by running make spectest 11:56
dalek Iish: 39f65b8 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | / (3 files):
Should fix pg for timestamp and other missing type
Iish: 6109493 | Skarsnik++ | / (3 files):
Merge pull request #42 from Skarsnik/master

Should fix pg for timestamp and other missing type
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lucasb stmuk++ for sharing the youtube link of LPW talks 11:59
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dalek kudo/nom: 2ef8881 | lizmat++ | src/core/Date.pm:
Add max day check for Date.later as well
 12:02
12:02 rurban left
dalek ast: b54c7b9 | lizmat++ | S32-temporal/Date.t:
Add test for problem fixed in 2ef8881e9e4b1a401
 12:03
c: a3d9a03 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/Date.pod:
Verify correctness of documented Date methods
 12:05
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lucasb m: while $++ < 5 { FIRST { 42 } } 12:10
camelia rakudo-moar 888ecd: OUTPUT«[DISLOCATED MESSAGE] Useless use of LOOP_BLOCK_1 symbol in sink context␤»
lucasb ^^ just to show the dislocated message so that it can be fixed later
12:11 vv3 joined
andreoss .seen masak 12:12
yoleaux I saw masak 22 Dec 2015 23:21Z in #perl6: <masak> 'night, #perl6
El_Che -a 12:13
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lizmat m: loop { FIRST last } 12:15
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«[DISLOCATED MESSAGE] Useless use of LOOP_BLOCK_1 symbol in sink context␤»
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lizmat golfed ^^^ 12:16
dalek Iish: 1e86465 | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | lib/DBDish/Role/StatementHandle.pm6:
Remove fetch_typedhash/fetch_alltypedhash, there were already marked as DEPRECATED
Iish: 19c6a1e | (Sylvain Colinet)++ | lib/DBDish/Role/StatementHandle.pm6:
forget to remove something
Iish: b6a92ad | Skarsnik++ | lib/DBDish/Role/StatementHandle.pm6:
Merge pull request #43 from Skarsnik/master

Remove fetch_typedhash/fetch_alltypedhash, there were DEPRECATED
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Skarsnik PR are quite noisy x) 12:16
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mre lizmat: is that issue just caused by using FIRST in a void context loop? 12:17
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lizmat m: my $a = loop { FIRST last } 12:19
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/G_1SVpm7ig␤Undeclared routine:␤ loop used at line 1␤␤»
lizmat m: my $a = do loop { FIRST last }
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'CURSOR'␤»
lizmat mre: not sure
mre lizmat: could that be related to the fix for UNDO in while loops that was done the other day?
lizmat: I am happy to write a test for it if you want. 12:20
(when I understand what the expected result should be)
lizmat tests are always good (well, generally :-)
well, that's the problem, I'm not sure
mre lizmat: (on that can you merge a pull request fixing a rakudo test)
lizmat afk for a bit 12:22
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El_Che I see the metamodel has an add_method and add_private_method method. It there something to replace a private method (e.g. for mocking a method doing external connections). I guess I could test a sub class for that 12:33
timotimo mre, i think you were creating a range with ^* 12:34
m: (1..10).map( ^* ).map(*.say) 12:36
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«^1␤^2␤^3␤^4␤^5␤^6␤^7␤^8␤^9␤^10␤»
timotimo m: (1..10).map( ^* ).map(*.list.say)
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«(0)␤(0 1)␤(0 1 2)␤(0 1 2 3)␤(0 1 2 3 4)␤(0 1 2 3 4 5)␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6)␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤»
timotimo m: (1..10).map( ^* ).map({ $_.list.say; say $_ > 10 })
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«(0)␤False␤(0 1)␤False␤(0 1 2)␤False␤(0 1 2 3)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4 5)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤False␤»
timotimo m: (1..10).map( ^* ).map({ $_.list.say; say $_ > 5 })
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«(0)␤False␤(0 1)␤False␤(0 1 2)␤False␤(0 1 2 3)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4)␤False␤(0 1 2 3 4 5)␤True␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6)␤True␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)␤True␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8)␤True␤(0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)␤True␤»
timotimo there you can see why it still aborted after 10 12:37
because the > operator interpreted the list as the number of its elements
and since you were getting ^* evaluated against the last element in the sequence, it was growing more and more 12:38
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ab6tract El_Che: sounds like a use case for MONKEY-TYPING 12:38
mre timotimo: ah makes sense 12:39
ab6tract m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class Str { method Rat { "ooo you dirty rat! i'm mocking you lol " ~ self } }; "foo".Rat 12:40
camelia ( no output )
ab6tract m: use MONKEY-TYPING; augment class Str { method Rat { "ooo you dirty rat! i'm mocking you lol " ~ self } }; say "foo".Rat
camelia rakudo-moar 2ef888: OUTPUT«ooo you dirty rat! i'm mocking you lol foo␤»
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ab6tract El_Che: note that this does not populate to subclasses yet, afaik 12:41
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mre gist.github.com/ungrim97/9434cc56e7544c1c59ae <-- Any one have any ideas why this if failing to install 12:45
lucasb I've never hit this "Could not find symbol '&bool'" error because I always starting with a clean environment. But, by reading the backlog, the answer is always to nuke everything. 12:51
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dalek kudo/nom: 8f1d504 | (Mike Eve)++ | t/01-sanity/55-use-trace.t:
Fixed test broken by 7f3032685

Line numbers in errors/trace are now "line $number" rather than
  ":$number"		 13:02
kudo/nom: 939c94b | lizmat++ | t/01-sanity/55-use-trace.t:
Merge pull request #650 from ungrim97/nom

Fixed test broken by 7f3032685
mre lucasb: cheers will try that 13:05
lizmat: thanks
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timotimo thank you, mre :) 13:07
Skarsnik ok, time to get lost in bitsec hell! 13:08
dalek kudo/nom: 4af3ff0 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
Add Mike Eve to list of contributors
 13:09
mre lizmat: I suspect that I am in the list of contributers as Mike Francis (Finally got round to updating my name in gitconfig after almost a year of marriage) 13:10
lizmat ah, ok, so which name would you like to have in there ?
mre Mike Eve please
timotimo the new one , i'd expect :)
mre :D 13:11
Skarsnik I am not in! (but who care!)
mre Skarsnik: :( 13:12
dalek kudo/nom: 5b377cc | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
Mike Eve was Mike Francis

As requested at irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-24#i_11770306
lizmat Skarsnik: with which name would you like to be in? 13:13
Skarsnik Sylvain Colinet
dalek kudo/nom: da1ad00 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
Add Skarsnik to list of contributors
 13:14
lizmat any new contributors that aren't in the list yet ? 13:15
Skarsnik Thanks! 13:16
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BooK lizmat: maybe add my nickname ;-) 13:21
so is Christmas today or tomorrow?
which TZ?
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lizmat tomorrow 13:23
BooK +0000 ? 13:24
lizmat as BooK or as Philippe Bruhat ?
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BooK Philippe Bruhat (BooK) 13:24
lizmat you were already in there :-) but now corrected :-) 13:25
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BooK I wouldn't have said anything if I wasn't already in the list 13:25
dalek kudo/nom: 89cdb53 | lizmat++ | src/core/Dateish.pm:
Can use native ints in daycount calculation
kudo/nom: 491f775 | lizmat++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
Philippe Bruhat is BooK
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lizmat can anybody tell me why DateTime needs a dedicated clone method ? 13:27
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BooK now is the time where the more minor contributors become the more vocal :-) 13:27
Skarsnik lizmat, what does the clone method do ? x) 13:28
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lizmat m: class A { has $.a; has $.b }; A.new(:42a,:666b).clone(:67a).say # create a clone, with possibly changed attributes 13:29
camelia rakudo-moar 939c94: OUTPUT«A.new(a => 67, b => 666)␤»
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patrickas Hello all, I just thought I drop by 5 years later and wish you all a merry christmas :-) 13:30
Skarsnik Merry christams to you them ^^
timotimo lizmat: maybe because it wants to verify the changes?
badsanta m: 5⁸⁸ == 5 × × 88 13:31
camelia rakudo-moar 491f77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/87Hki9ckVP␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix × instead␤at /tmp/87Hki9ckVP:1␤------> 035⁸⁸ == 5 × ×7⏏5 88␤»
lizmat timotimo: ah yes, I guess 13:32
badsanta m: 5⁸⁸ == 5 ** 88
camelia rakudo-moar 491f77: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/Q9jXvTdwYs:␤Useless use of "==" in expression "⁸⁸ == 5 **" in sink context (line 1)␤»
timotimo m: say 5⁸⁸ == 5 ** 88 13:33
camelia rakudo-moar 491f77: OUTPUT«True␤»
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timotimo the last advent post has surpassed 2k views 13:39
er, no
the *day* has
1.3k direct views on the latest post, 525 views on the front page, which includes it 13:40
st_iron and my comment is still under moderation :) 13:41
timotimo oh
let me have a look
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st_iron ;) 13:42
timotimo i didn' tget any notifications and on the page i looked at all the time it didn't even show comments
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timotimo i had to click the wp admin button on the bottom left 13:42
st_iron yeah, I had the same problem with wp 13:43
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badsanta m: say 5⁽⁸⁸⁾ 13:43
camelia rakudo-moar 491f77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/vOdzYdvBI0␤Bogus postfix␤at /tmp/vOdzYdvBI0:1␤------> 3say 57⏏5⁽⁸⁸⁾␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statem…»
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dalek c: c20d1c8 | lizmat++ | doc/Type/DateTime.pod:
Check validity of documented DateTime methods
 13:43
timotimo wordpress has become so much better since i started using it for the weekly 13:44
er
i meant to say
wordpress has become so much *worse* since i started using it for the weekly
lizmat before / after, left / right, up / down, it's all relative :-) 13:45
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dalek kudo/nom: 09ca24c | lizmat++ | src/core/DateTime.pm:
No need to make YAH (YetAnotherHash) when cloning
 13:46
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lizmat these conclude my commits for today 13:47
st_iron let's write a great blog saas in perl6 :)
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patrickz Hi everyone and merry Christmas! 13:50
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patrickas patrickz: I feel a great disturbance in the force! 13:51
patrickz Oh nose! 13:52
Right there in the middle of your face!
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patrickz rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ should be updated: The rakudobrew installation instructions do not reflect what rakudobrew itself recommends. 13:53
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patrickz git clone github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew %USERPROFILE%\rakudobrew 13:53
SET PATH "%USERPROFILE%\rakudobrew\bin;%PATH%"
RabidGravy st_iron, that's how I got in this mess in the first place
patrickz echo 'eval "$(rakudobrew init -)"' >> ~/.profile
would be better
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lizmat brb 13:54
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geekosaur patrickz, the quoted stuff indicates Windows, there may not be a Unix-like shell in play 13:55
patrickz geekosaur You're right! 13:56
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patrickz Then copying the "Installation" part from github.com/tadzik/rakudobrew might be the best idea. 13:57
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lizmat I wish everybody a very nice Christmas Eve... 14:08
see you tomorrow
afk for the rest of the day&
RabidGravy :)
perlpilot lizmat: you too!
st_iron merry christmas to you too
RabidGravy Just in case you're into a spot of classic techno and getting festive soundcloud.com/ibanzero/voltereta 14:09
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AlexDaniel oh, 24th of December! What a great day for cycling 14:13
Skarsnik AlexDaniel, hey, can you see if the last dbiish commit fix your timestamp issue? x) 14:14
AlexDaniel well, I had exactly the same thing done locally
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AlexDaniel I can upgrade it just to make sure 14:14
Skarsnik: I don't really like that it is Str and not DateTime 14:15
Skarsnik: or any other type… Instant or whatever it should be
Skarsnik Other people in dbiish seem to not like being too clever with type ^^
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Skarsnik so I left it as discusion 14:16
Because I already though of returning date for date field
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AlexDaniel Skarsnik: fine, whatever. By the way, what is going to happen if some type is not listed in Native.pm6? 14:17
Skarsnik I make it default to Str
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RabidGravy I'm in the "leave it to a higher level abstraction" party by the way 14:17
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: ok, great then 14:18
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Skarsnik You could try removing the timestamp stuff, but it should be fine 14:18
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Skarsnik RabidGravy, I will need to have hight level abstraction have access to the native type 14:20
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: “No appropriate parametric role variant available for 'NativeCall::Native'”
what the
Skarsnik duh
AlexDaniel that's when I try to install it
Skarsnik old rakudo? 14:22
like 4 days olds
AlexDaniel g9a01b4b 14:23
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Skarsnik because the lib version stuff make dbiish don't work with old rakudo 14:23
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AlexDaniel 2 days old 14:24
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Skarsnik hm 14:24
check NC code if the NativeCall::Native role accept List in the where 14:25
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AlexDaniel Skarsnik: I'll just build the newest version hoping that it will solve it somehow 14:27
Skarsnik timotimo, I found the faulty commit: 02588190492349fabde00c5a15b873ea61a9333e is the first bad commit 14:28
so I can blame TimToady
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perlpilot Does DBIish keep the original column information around somewhere? (just thinking that if dates/timestamps come a cross as strings, you'd want the original type so that you could make something akin to DBIC::InflateColumn::DateTime) 14:40
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timotimo Skarsnik: well, i'm glad it wasn't one of my (few) commits :) 14:42
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lucasb panda is taking forever to install some modules 14:46
only some modules. I experienced it with Bailador and 007
tadzik hmm
yoleaux 02:12Z <llfourn> tadzik: PR for your consideration github.com/tadzik/Shell-Command/pull/8 :)
tadzik which part of the process? 14:47
lucasb the "==> Installing" part
tadzik llfourn++, and lizmat++
lucasb: ah, yes, copying files is notoriously slow
lucasb but maybe it's not panda's issue
maybe it has something to do with precomp
tadzik that's about as precise as I nailed it down to 14:48
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lucasb I run this cmdline: find ~/.perl6 -printf "%C+ %f\n" | sort | less 14:48
llfourn :D merry christmas tadzik & all ( it is actually christmas where I am )
tadzik llfourn: likewise, merry christmas! 14:49
lucasb and I can see the *.rev-deps files are the ones getting modified last
tadzik: by "notoriously slow" do you mean like more than 30 minutes? that's what is happening here :) 14:50
llfourn lucasb: is it hanging?
tadzik llfourn: wooo what
lucasb: ^
lemee try :)
llfourn panda has has a few hanging issues in the past few days... 14:51
lucasb llfourn, tadzik: idk if its hanging, it seems to be doing its job somehow :)
tadzik :P
El_Che hi
RabidGravy Another one down github.com/jonathanstowe/Audio-Snd...tag/v0.0.8 only 26 more to do
lucasb I'm just hopefull it will end. because I waited very long for Bailador and it didn't end after a while 14:52
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tadzik RabidGravy: what's your quest? 14:52
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RabidGravy fix all my modules before midnight ;-) 14:52
tadzik ah :)
RabidGravy only three work for sure at the moment
tadzik I should teach smoker to only run stuff for github user X and then scream at me on the console 14:53
El_Che so, what the plannig? Release at midnight at Larry's timezone or too optismistic?
RabidGravy also at some point after the actual release I'm going to bounce all the modules to v0.1.0 14:54
lucasb *I meant to say Bailador *did* end installing successfully, after a long while. 14:55
tadzik lucasb: okay, panda is now "==> Installing Bailador" here
let's see how it fares
cpu is actually working hard
RabidGravy El_Che, nothing much is broken. All the target RTs are done, no-one is going to push anything today so yeah I'd say 14:56
lucasb I'll just abort the "==> Installing 007"... can't wait longer for this...
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tadzik I'm now very interested in this 14:57
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lucasb tadzik: I'll just repeat that I think this is not an issue with panda itself... It may be more like a precomp problem 14:58
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lucasb because other modules install without any problem 14:58
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tadzik yeah, I still want to know what's taking so long :) 14:59
time for some print debugging
RabidGravy I think that some low level stuff takes longer to compile 15:00
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RabidGravy I've noticed this with "trait heavy" stuff 15:00
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mspo many passes? 15:01
tadzik argh 15:02
now CUR doesn't allow installation of stuff with the same version
I don't like that 15:03
that makes module development a PITA
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AlexDani` Skarsnik: it didn't help 15:03
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AlexDaniel Skarsnik: same error on lines 14 and 52 in this file github.com/perl6/DBIish/blob/maste...ve.pm6#L52 15:04
Skarsnik dug
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Skarsnik perlpilot, not for now 15:05
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RabidGravy tadzik, use the --force 15:06
Skarsnik AlexDaniel, I am confused. did you check the file it point out?
it should not fail like that x)
tadzik, merge my pr so I can rework on Discord! x) 15:07
tadzik Skarsnik: but you can make it work using the custom unmarshaler :)
and it turns out to be easier than we both thought
Skarsnik merge the null stuff at least x)
tadzik oh, oh 15:08
Skarsnik if you don't want to keep the Int
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: uhmmh, which file?
Skarsnik AlexDaniel, the error point you to a file (the sha of NC)?
tadzik Skarsnik: yes, I'll do the null thing
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: that's the same file that I've linked 15:09
tadzik I still have mixed feelings about the automatic Str-Int conversion
Skarsnik AlexDaniel, I mean your local (precompiled) file
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: that's exactly the same file, I've diffed it 15:11
Skarsnik The Int thing I can work around with, well not typing the attribute, but the null was more trickyt x) 15:12
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: or what do you mean?
Skarsnik AlexDaniel, yes but you must have the can't find role thingy error pointing to the NativeCall.pm?
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tadzik Skarsnik: does it not work to name it as Int but have a is unmarshalled-by('Int') or so? 15:12
as RabidGravy pointed out?
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Skarsnik No idea 15:12
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: nope, it points to this file
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tadzik argh, now my panda broke because of the 'as' changes 15:14
AlexDaniel tadzik: just edit the file
tadzik for some reason, even if I update it to HEAD
Skarsnik it seem like it using an old NC file
tadzik yeah
timotimo tadzik: because a panda lib is still pre-installed?
tadzik I just nuked my installation
timotimo in the sources?
hankache hola!
AlexDaniel tadzik: $x as Str to Str() $x and it will work
timotimo hola hankache
Skarsnik did you nuke the installed stuff?
tadzik timotimo: well, 'rakudobrew build panda' should overwrite them, no?
timotimo not necessarily 15:15
AlexDaniel Skarsnik: I didn't, but I probably should
jeez, these issues are annoying
Skarsnik: anyway, I have to go now. Thanks for your help
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Skarsnik timotimo, Could I fill a rakudo bug for my bug, even if I don't golf it? 15:16
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Skarsnik use experimental :pack; it's from today? x) 15:23
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timotimo Skarsnik: i forgot what bug you had where ... 15:24
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Skarsnik the Can't find infix < A in my Gumbo module (on a given switch) 15:24
timotimo please golf it 15:25
Skarsnik I have no idea where to start x) 15:28
timotimo it's a parse error, right? 15:31
just cut out things all over the place
wait ... it's not a parse error, it's a parse mitsake or something like that
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Skarsnik it's a call error? "Cannot call infix:(Any, Int)" 15:32
nine tadzik: it's not copying but precompilation onbinstall that's slow 15:33
lucasb: ^^^ 15:34
timotimo Skarsnik: can you get rid of all but that one function and call it in isolation?
thomax waves & shouts Ho Ho Ho 15:36
tadzik ah
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thomax is p6.c official now? 15:38
FROGGS not yet I think
timotimo not completely, no 15:39
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timotimo wait for the tag in the perl6/roast repository 15:39
that'll be the release of the language version
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timotimo and then we'll tag a rakudo version that does well enough with that language version 15:39
and then a rakudo star, so that we also have panda and a few modules bundled
thomax nice! what else is in the package? 15:40
awwaiid thomax: github.com/tadzik/Task-Star/blob/m.../META.info
some delicious stuff! 15:41
timotimo rakudo star also comes with a lovely .pdf introduction course
i wonder if we should also ship the perl6intro.com in rakudo star?
thomax nice!
timotimo .ask hankache if we should perhaps put the perl6intro text into rakudo star tarballs and such?
yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to hankache.
thomax and don't forget to press release it! 15:42
timotimo i expect the perl foundation would be able to do something like a press release? 15:44
i personally have no clue how press releases work 15:45
thomax let's hope the best
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Skarsnik hm, that work with just calling the method 15:49
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Skarsnik I updated rakudo too in between also x) 15:49
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ChoHag How can I set a value to the result of breaking early from looping over another value? 15:54
ie. better than my $result = sub { loop (...) { return processed($_) if $_.ok } }() 15:55
Skarsnik last
oh in a loop
grondilu { value; last; }?
ChoHag Does the last return the value of the previous expression? 15:56
grondilu m: say do loop { pi; last }
camelia rakudo-moar 09ca24: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for /tmp/iycH0KttNW:␤Useless use of constant value pi in sink context (line 1)␤()␤»
grondilu apparently not, my bad
nine Put the loop in a sub and return? 15:57
grondilu javascript-style, basically
ChoHag Well that's what I did, but it looks clunky.
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grondilu I like it, personally 15:57
nine subs should be small anyway ;)
perlpilot m: my $v = do loop (my $i = 0; $i < 10; $i++) { say $i }; 15:59
camelia rakudo-moar 09ca24: OUTPUT«(timeout)0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0␤0…»
perlpilot bug!
grondilu took a while
TimToady it loops forever
yoleaux 08:54Z <nine> TimToady: That must be the lovliest announcement I've ever read.
grondilu oh yeah, and wrong
konobi happy perl6 day y'all!
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timotimo merry sixmas 16:00
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timotimo i must admit the last paragraph of the advent post reads a whole lot like "here you go. perl6 is released." 16:01
ChoHag Oh is it?
perlpilot timotimo: Every month, like clock work ;) 16:02
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timotimo my clock works more often than once a month, to be honest 16:02
perlpilot If we'd been tagging roast every month too, we could call it "done" (for some values done)
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perlpilot I bet on boxing day people are going to be like, "Where's my Perl 6 MSI?" and "Where's my Perl 6 RPM?" etc. 16:05
thomax it's official?
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grondilu is always a bit confused when people talk about "boxing day". Always thinks about the punching sport. 16:06
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flussence perlpilot: I'm trying to make sure gentoo has some sort of perl6 package ready to go at release, even if nobody else has shown any interest :) 16:07
perlpilot grondilu: For those people who don't quite get the Christmas spirit, that could be the result of the christmas festivities 16:08
grondilu: well ... less like "sport" and more like "fight"
timotimo well, not everybody is aware that what's just been released is the spec test suite
Skarsnik one of the dep of H:UA suffer from the as stuff
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timotimo which one is that? 16:09
Skarsnik IO::Capture::Simple
LLamaRider merry perl6 day to everyone! :)
konobi grondilu: it originates from giving a box filled with stuff as a gift to the "help" 16:11
Skarsnik sub prints-stdout-ok (Callable $code, $expected as Str, $reason = '') does the as keyword get removed?
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jeturcotte ahoyhoy 16:12
perlpilot greetings jeturcotte 16:13
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vendethiel merry sixy 16:14
also o/, #perl6.
jeturcotte I come to poke around for wisdom, re: io::socket::async and why I can't telnet to the example given on perl6.org
im missing out on some fundamental little bit
awwaiid greetings jeturcotte 16:15
jeturcotte *points* 16:16
awwaiid lemme see if I can get it to work
nine Skarsnik: yes
use Str() ibstead
perlpilot Skarsnik: apparently. See 4355eacf825ff33f906ae75b2d613ed57e228390
Str() implies Str(Any), right?
jeturcotte i can telnet to the inet version, but have had equally little luck separating it off onto a separate thread, whereas that works fine with the async one, but the communication back and forth is in some way different
awwaiid jeturcotte: er... which example?
jeturcotte sample server on doc.perl6.org/type/IO::Socket::Async 16:17
lucasb awwaiid: Hi. I'm sorry to be picky, but can you review your doc commit about hash literals?
Skarsnik It's getting annoying having half the ecosystem that broke at each commit ~~
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jeturcotte i can telnet TO it, but not have a conversation as is 16:18
awwaiid ah sure lucasb
jeturcotte and i don't comprehend enough of the fundamentals yet to anticipate where the problem is
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FROGGS o/ 16:19
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jeturcotte alternatively, their sample client DOES communicate, but I'd rather not make a client when telnet is sufficient 16:19
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awwaiid lucasb: mmm, I'm not sure to what you are referring 16:19
lucasb awwaiid: :{} is syntax for an object hash 16:20
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awwaiid ah great! Can you point me to the Synopsis or something for that so I can fix it? 16:20
lucasb but to be honest, I don't know how to put it into words :)
awwaiid I asked some folks about :{} but nobody answered so onward I drove :) 16:21
mre how does one go about debugging nqp? (as in print string of something)
lucasb it's ok. thanks for adding to the docs, awwaiid++
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lucasb idk if this :{...} has made it into the synopses... I'll take a look 16:22
awwaiid but ya -- explain it to me or link it to meme and I'll fix
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Skarsnik I can't even insall Inline::Perl5 (╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻ 16:24
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mre Skarsnik: I couldn't either 16:24
flussence ooc, who's our designated driver for rakudo 2015.12 and/or star? 16:25
Skarsnik Inline::Perl5 is in Star? x) 16:26
jeturcotte reading rfc 854 ... might as well start from the beginning 16:28
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lucasb awwaiid: design.perl6.org/S03.html#line_181 16:31
iow, :{...} isn't to disambiguate between hash and blocks. it's a special hash composer.
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lucasb and doing 'my %when = :{ ... }' results in a warning, just like normal 'my %h = { ... }' 16:32
TimToady yes, that's a one-arg thing, not a type thing 16:33
it'll iterate either {} or :{} for a list
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TimToady but it's probably not what was intended 16:33
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awwaiid cool, thanks lucasb, I'll fix the doc 16:34
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awwaiid jeturcotte: running the server and then telnetting into it isn't behaving how I expect either, so that's good 16:35
jeturcotte aye; the INET one just works, but the async one cooperates with my having a separate process/thread going 16:36
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jeturcotte i just get the feeling one end or the other doesn't understand the other 16:36
as a connection is made
but then there's no intelligible back and forth 16:37
i need to understand how they're expected to work so I an diagnose
reading in another screen
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awwaiid I'm surprised you can't assign a non-string-key hash to a %-var 16:38
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jberger I just read the p6advent post today and then read the backlog from the channel today 16:40
if there isn't some huge party popper popping, champaign pouring, release announcement today or tomorrow then you will have blown your chance for it 16:41
lucasb iiuc, one *can* assign both {...} and :{...} to %-sigiled variables. it just emits a warning
jberger this has to be the "get out the word" "its not vaporware" day(s)
lucasb like I said the other day, a new user would maybe expect some symetry between 'my @a = [...]' and 'my %h = {...}' 16:42
jberger and if its a dithering "we are committing to backwards compatibility" and "this is only for the test suite" then you lose the moment and no one will give you another such moment
land this one!
lucasb that's why I suggested that this warning could be reconsidered
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jberger right now I have nothing to link to hacker news 16:44
nothing to show a project manager
awwaiid lucasb: ah, yes I see, does work with %h = :{ ... }, and seems totally fine despite the warning
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awwaiid jberger: For myself, I'm holding back until we can point at a full Rakudo + Task::Star / toolchain release :) 16:45
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jberger is that tomorrow? 16:46
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jberger I'm not kidding, this is the moment 16:46
that advent post can't be "the announcement"
flussence why not?
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awwaiid mmm. dunno. ASAP I guess; I've only been working on the docs and those aren't nearly as ready as the rest, sadly. 16:46
jberger it was cute, but it doesn't say anything to those outside the community 16:47
awwaiid flussence: because I can't link my friends over to something to give it a spin :)
flussence ah, it's not farmable for upvotes. gotcha.
jberger that's what you need, cynical as it sounds
we need to get eyeballs
perlpilot mre: nqp has say() 16:48
awwaiid well in my case I'm not looking for upvotes, I'm looking for something that my friend scott can run on his machine
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jberger no, you need upvotes or scott doesn't ever consider this language 16:48
awwaiid that too
but I'll take the long view on that
jberger nor does scott's boss or his boss
15 years of promising christmas isn't long view enough?! 16:49
dalek c: 958ca8a | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/ (2 files):
Fix reference to :{} syntax
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awwaiid jeturcotte: well, i have to go for a bit, I'll see if I can construct a working example later 16:50
lucasb awesome, thanks awwaiid++
awwaiid thanks for helping me understand :)
jeturcotte no prob; this isn't terrible important anyhow... trying their bind-udp by getting errors on that, like maybe the documation's a bit aged on that part. 16:51
have a good eve
mre perlpilot: what about for things that don't stringify (hashes)
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jberger would you all like me to write the press release? 16:53
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ribasushi TimToady: ^^ having a relative outsider write one is likely rather sensible, I'd "thumb up" that 16:54
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flussence depends; do you understand the language and community well enough to do it right? 16:54
mre jberger: You could write one and let us review it :D
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jberger "I, Larry Wall, along with the tireless team of developers that have helped me, am very happy to announce that after 15 years of development, the Perl6 spec has now reached a stable release ..." 16:55
jdv79 its a good point - why isn't tpf doing promotion or something
isn't that part of what they are for
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jberger "I expect that within days or hours, implementations of the Perl6 spec, such as the Rakudo project will make their announcements of their v6.c releases" 16:55
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jdv79 when will the release(s) be cut? is that [Coke] solely? 16:56
flussence jdv79: think so...
jdv79 [Coke]: what's happenin? 16:57
jberger "This represents thousands of hours of effort by hundreds of developers over 15 years. The language is like nothing you've ever seen before, providing such features as ..."
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jdv79 jberger: mabe a gist or a blog post that's not chopped up into irc sized chunks:) 16:57
*maybe
jberger flussence: notice that I don't have to know anything about the development process nor the community to do this 16:58
isBEKaml jdv79: there's already one. It's up there on perl6advent
jberger because its not for us and its not about that
isBEKaml jdv79: perl6advent.wordpress.com/2015/12/...ted-party/
mre jberger++
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jdv79 that's not what jberger is looking for 16:58
jberger its something that we can proudly point to outside of the perl bubble and get them to look
jdv79: thanks
isBEKaml Ah, okay
mre Yeah it needs to be synically markitable 16:59
jberger larry's post is cute, we all like it
but that's not going to sell on hackernews
its not going to get tech writers to write about it
this story is interesting
isBEKaml HN is a dour crowd
flussence that's fine, we aren't trying to sell anything :)
jberger but we have to make it accessible
flussence: if you aren't then this is all a waste
your aren't selling it for cash, but you should be selling it for eyeballs 17:00
isBEKaml Do we already have R* distributions up anywhere?
jberger s/your/you/
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mre flussence: We really are trying to sell it. Not financially but in terms of use. I would very much like it to be used in companies and they sadly only will do that if it becomes fashionable. 17:00
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flussence in all seriousness, I'd nominate raiph++ to write a press release. He's done an amazing job of that sort of thing over the past few years IMO. 17:02
jberger then let raiph do it
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jberger but someone really should 17:03
for all your sakes
you have put in tons of time
I WANT to see this get the attention it deserves
andreoss .seen masak
yoleaux I saw masak 22 Dec 2015 23:21Z in #perl6: <masak> 'night, #perl6
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Begi .seen azawawi 17:04
yoleaux I saw azawawi 7 Dec 2015 10:00Z in #perl6: <azawawi> RabidGravy: hi
jdv79 it is a holiday so might have to settle based on availablity 17:05
Begi Happy Christams #perl6 ! ++ 17:06
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dalek kudo/nom: b49aa3e | TimToady++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
Be very clear what's being delivered, or not
 17:10
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andreoss is it ready yet? 17:12
TimToady ready for what?
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andreoss for the release 17:12
TimToady well, we'll see if any last-minute bug fixes sneak in, but largely, yes 17:13
we do need to figure why t/spec/S32-array/adverbs.t is failing
that's the only test that fails for me when running a single test job 17:14
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TimToady multiple jobs still get occasional hangs, but maybe the tests are assuming things they shouldn't about load 17:15
jdv79 jberger: oh yeah. forgot about the announce that has all the contrib names. that's probably what you are looking for.
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skids I actually found a circumstance where "use Test" hangs reliably 17:16
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jberger jdv79: if you mean I'm looking to see my name in lights, no I'm not, I don't have a single p6 commit 17:16
TimToady I guess I'm willing (given what I just put into the release notes above) to ship with tests passing in single file, but it'd be nice if we could do a little better
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skids Proc::Screen commit ef49cd156 will hand on tests 17:17
jdv79 jberger: no. the thing you can link to and such.
skids hang even.
jberger yeah, that's all I want
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jberger give the press something to feed on 17:18
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jberger hope for (or cajole) a tech journal to write a story on the release 17:18
this is how people who have long since moved beyond perl see it
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andreoss there's still time to adopt eastern customs to gain two extra weeks 17:19
flussence it's almost certain that the reputable ones (like LWN) will pick it up regardless :)
TimToady well, Infoworld already ran an article
jberger andreoss: greek orthodox christmas :-P (is that a thing? I know it is for Easter) 17:20
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[Coke] The christmas release is going to be on christmas, yes. tomorrow is christmas here. 17:20
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jberger [Coke]: if something else is being said tomorrow then I'll shut up 17:21
btyler although it is entertaining to think about perl6 shipping a day early :)
TimToady yes, we're going to release on Christmas regardless of how many disclaimers we have to put in the release notes :)
araujo hello, anybody knows where I can find information about interfacing perl6 with C libs?
jberger [Coke]: I came here because of the advent calendar post, which, though cute, couldn't be the only release message
Su-Shee I agree.
#perl is ready to send people over here tomorrow regardless. ;) 17:22
TimToady if we have to put a big fat "We know of one or two stabiity issues in the multithreading and precompilation" then we will 17:23
the rakudo release will serve as the official announcement of the frozen 6.c spec; see my edits above
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mre araujo: the best place to start I think is doc.perl6.org/language/nativecall 17:25
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thomax huhu Su-Shee 17:25
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ZoffixW is almost ready for party :) 17:26
TimToady++ # awesome Advent post 17:27
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araujo mre, Thanks!, pretty much what I was looking for 17:28
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lucasb That announce edit clarified a lot, thanks. If one does a "serious" announcement, people expect to find a polished product. I think that's why most P6 people prefers to not be sooo serious. :) 17:28
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[Coke] jnthn: you have a link to your "what to do post release" in re: branches & spectests? 17:29
lucasb this? gist.github.com/jnthn/f3a691016c20f0cc4cfa 17:30
Su-Shee lucasb: well considering that the "release at christmas" bell rang a lot this year, people expect something more serious, yes.
lucasb: and trust me they will ignore all disclaimers. ;)
awwaiid is totally psyched for some rakudo christmas 17:31
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TimToady every time I announced christmas, I said "there will be bugs, it won't be as fast as we'd like" 17:31
peteretep I personally will be taking credit for being a supporter all along :-P
TimToady but we've pretty much hit the mark we set for ourselves, and we can never make everyone happy with that
peteretep I al still interested in sponsoring some hackathons 17:32
awwaiid totally. I think some folks are worried that the roast is the ONLY christmas gift they are getting
FROGGS raises his glass to TimToady
|Tux| I *do* have a X-mas present for you :)
Su-Shee well I trust you made it nice enough to properly install and to make module installation not fail. if it's then not fast enough, nobody will really care.
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ZoffixW |Tux|, watisit? :)\ 17:33
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jdv79 Su-Shee: well...:) 17:33
|Tux| <drumrolllllll>…
peteretep Does it still complain about installation in directories with soaces in?
Skarsnik most of the ecosystem is broken probably x)
ZoffixW Su-Shee, there's still some obscure panda issue where modules with prereqs fail on first try, but succeed on second
TimToady Su-Shee: module installation doesn't *always* fail :)
ZoffixW :P
Su-Shee stuffs her fingers in her ears and sings *lalalala* ;)
jdv79 progress i guess 17:34
Su-Shee MODULE INSTALLATION WILL WORK, WON'T IT. ;)
|Tux| test 50000 22.561 22.439
test-t 50000 12.440 12.318
csv-parser 50000 50.349 50.227
stmuk I did wonder whether panda should have a "please wait" message since some installs are *very* slow
|Tux| UNDER 13! this is an all-time low
ZoffixW |Tux|, what do those numbers mean?
TimToady wow
flussence 12 means fast(ish)
ZoffixW heh... mkay :)
TimToady maybe panda should have an autoretry when it sees that happen
awwaiid what are they numbers of?
ZoffixW I do notice rakudo is much faster than when I first started playing with it
skids Post release I think some thought into how ecosystem module maintainers go about offering a works-with-6.c version and a works-with-nom version is in order. 17:35
flussence considering it started at about... 250 or so that's quite good
|Tux| ZoffixW, tux.nl/Talks/CSV6/speed4.html
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awwaiid fancy graphs |Tux|! 17:35
[Coke] hurls gist.github.com/coke/dc55e617e76a6f7082f9 for those who keep asking about the release.
|Tux| time to go home and celebrate!
for those that have other/better things to do than hang around here, enjoy X-mas :) 17:36
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ZoffixW What we really need to ensure is there's something for Windows users to install and play with. I often noticed in the past the Windows R* was lagging significantly behind. 17:36
TimToady [Coke]: are my edits above okay by you? 17:37
awwaiid [Coke]++ # throwing release notes
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TimToady maybe we want a specific link to roast? 17:37
nebuchadnezzar time to make an unreasonable diner
ZoffixW nebuchadnezzar, a whole diner? Use thick plywood :P 17:38
autarch I'm trying to run "panda gen-meta" but it complains that it can't find Panda::DepTracker - when I try to install such a module, panda says it doesn't exist
[Coke] sees he needs to pull TimToady++'s insert into the release announcement - thank you, I was just composing something like that. 17:39
flussence seems like DepTracker was deleted in panda commit a7040f8450
autarch I just did "rakudobrew build-panda" to make sure I had the right version too 17:40
ZoffixW Hm
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autarch and zef won't even build at all 17:40
ZoffixW When I run this, I just get panda usage instructions: panda gen-meta --name=Foo::Bar --auth=Blah --ver=v0.1 --desc="A sec"
autarch ZoffixW: yeah, I had that problem too
TimToady who all has write access to the rakudobrew/panda stuff? Do we need to fork versions of those that could have last-minute emergency patches applied?
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skids lizmat has access to panda and a bunch of tadzik's stuff. 17:41
[Coke] TimToady: I would love to be able to give a URL that says "here's the tests". I know our eventualy goal was a standalone copy of tests that didn't need fudging, but I think a tag of "6.c" as the "official" christmas spec is a reasonable place to start (or, more likely, a 6.c branch, since we expect there to be incremental clarifications that don't count as a new spec.)
autarch it seems like it'd be good to move panda to the perl6 org, no?
stmuk I don't think "gen-meta" has worked for months
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TimToady yes, a 6.c branch will be sufficient for now; we can work out the 'unfudging' later 17:42
ZoffixW autarch, agreed
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TimToady well, it's tadzik++'s stuff, so it'd be nice to get preapproval of that, but he's been pretty busy lately 17:44
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RandalSchwartz where is panda installing things? 17:44
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TimToady same install directory as rakudo, wherever that is 17:45
flussence m: say $*REPO.writable-path
camelia rakudo-moar b49aa3: OUTPUT«Method 'writable-path' not found for invocant of class 'CompUnit::Repository::Installation'␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/V0S2SQDFFc line 1␤␤»
lucasb RandalSchwartz: on $PREFIX/share/perl6/site
RandalSchwartz Oh, and installing Task::Star failed on Grammar::Debugger
autarch TimToady: I'm not saying steal it, I'm saying it'd be good to ask him if it's cool to move it
[Coke] ok. anyone planning any changes for the tests? If not, I'll cut a branch now, and remove any tests not explicitly listed in rakudo's t/spectest.data
flussence m: say $*REPO.writeable-path
camelia rakudo-moar b49aa3: OUTPUT«"/home/camelia/.perl6/2015.11-779-gb49aa3e".IO␤»
stmuk RandalSchwartz: it should work if you try again
Skarsnik RandalSchwartz> Oh, and installing Task::Star failed on Grammar::Debugger <= retry it should work x
RandalSchwartz oh weirfd.
TimToady and I'm saying if we have to steal it to fix a last minute issue, we will, but I'd rather not :) 17:46
RandalSchwartz and yes, it did
TimToady like, if we decided that we had to hack in an autoretry to panda, for instance :)
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ZoffixW RandalSchwartz, that will happen for a few more modules. Just retry. It happens on any modules that have uninstalled prereqs 17:46
RandalSchwartz would prefix there be moar-nom, or its parent
heh... same error on URI 17:47
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ZoffixW Yup :) 17:47
Skarsnik should xml be moved to perl6 or something like that? it's quite a nice module and the author see not that active x)
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pdcawley Feeling slightly silly. I have sub example($a,$b,$c) { ... } and I want to do example( "2x3x4".split(/x/) ) and have it act in a perl 5ish manner. What's the syntax to turn the result of split into a capture? 17:48
ZoffixW I think that type of stuff should be avoided as much as possible, or we'll be drowning in forks
flussence is watching `top` report 30% cpu usage while "==> Installing Net::HTTP" has been on screen for the past 15 minutes or so 17:49
jdv79 ZoffixW: huh?
ZoffixW jdv79, sup?
awwaiid Skarsnik: probably not -- that is more likely a work-with-author thing for xml, ultimately forking maybe but probably not a #perl6 ownership
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jdv79 just use a different auth, no? 17:49
i don't get your commen is what i meant.
lucasb pdcawley: maybe try ( |("2x3x4".split(/x/)) )
RandalSchwartz ahh... moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site
jdv79 *comment
TimToady git has taught us that forks are not evil, if there's the intent to remerge
but it's still less efficient than non-fork 17:50
jdv79 or abandon
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flussence strace shows this doing *something* precomp-related, but it seems to be looping over a huge number of files and I've no idea wtf's going on 17:50
Skarsnik well you can replace exemel in ecosystem to my work to have an install copy x)
awwaiid TimToady: profound thought! that's why some people prefer threads over forks! hahahaha
ZoffixW jdv79, yeah, but then the author comes back and what's then? What if they don't like the direction the fork has taken? I see there has been activity on the repo 19 days ago. IMO that's a bit too early for hostile forks.
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TimToady well, emergency forks are a gray area 17:51
ZoffixW jdv79, the :auth stuff is no different than simply using a different name. At the end, you still have two diverged forks.
Sure, emergency is a different matter.
lucasb flussence: I have experienced the same hang up on installing Bailador and 007 :(
jdv79 idk how that's hostile. we have auth to ameliorate some of the issues.
Skarsnik well we can just change the file in ecosystem6 to a working fork, the time the issue get fixed?
TimToady and we aren't promising that anything downstream works, but it'd at least be nice if some of it works :)
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jdv79 some of it does work most of the time 17:52
ZoffixW jdv79, maybe I don't understand the auth, but I see no difference between Foo:auth<zoffix>/Foo:auth<perl6> and Foo::Zoffix/Foo::Perl6
pdcawley lucasb: Right... so... map { example(|(.split(/x/)) } lines...
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autarch I note that forking panda also requires everyone to update rakudobrew since it hard codes tadzik's repo 17:53
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dalek kudo/nom: 9fcf651 | coke++ | docs/announce/2015.12.md:
Add a link to the roast branch with the Christmas

Minor cleanup		 17:53
skids ZoffixW: module with the :auth will still work if you do not specify an :auth, that's the difference. 17:54
One will be chosen.
ZoffixW jdv79, and the hostility is in the form that if the fork was required to make some fix, then logically there will be X number of people using that fork. Now, when I come back from my vacation and fix my code (even assuming I approve of the change someone else made in their fork), what happens to the original fork? Will it be deleted? Will those X number of users have to change their code?
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Skarsnik what happend if you put two Meta to the same module in ecosystem6? 17:55
TimToady one would hope there's a way to say "pick the latest on from either auth"
*one
RandalSchwartz until panda install Task::Star; do echo retrying; done 17:56
TimToady then it would automatically revert
there you go :)
ZoffixW Skarsnik, at the same location? Nothing (as far as modules.perl6.org is concerned)
Skarsnik Like if I add my exemel fork. will panda try this one if the first one fail to install?
RandalSchwartz does rakudobrew self-update also update installed modules? 17:57
Skarsnik self-update only update rakudobrew I think
stmuk RandalSchwartz: no
ZoffixW skids, that's actually a real problem. A security problem I'd even say. All that tells me is if I don't explicitly specify an :auth<>, I open myself to action-at-a-distance errors if me or $evil-guy installs a same-named module with different auth
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RandalSchwartz and the moar-vm? or is that update separate 17:57
TimToady ZoffixW: true, there are security implications if you don't nail down the identity
ZoffixW So the "one will be chosen" is an unresolved ambiguity in my eyes, not a feature by a long shot.
Skarsnik I don't even know if there is a way to update module in panda? 17:58
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pdcawley It feels like map { example(|(.split(/x/))) } lines is a bit clumsy. Would like to write lines>>.split(/x/)>> 17:58
skids ZoffixW: depends on your use case. If your worried about security to that level you should be excercising change control on your systems.
pdcawley Argh... don't it return when you mean to hit delete.
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ZoffixW skids, that was just one of the examples. My general complaint is that { use Foo } is ambiguous be definition, since :auth<> is missing. 17:59
RandalSchwartz it's been installing DBIsh for about 4 minutes.
normal?
ZoffixW RandalSchwartz, Not in my experience
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TimToady yes, unless you have some authoritative recommender that tells you what to trust 17:59
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flussence RandalSchwartz: seems normal for that part to break lately... 18:00
jdv79 i ctrl-c'd it last night after 10min
RandalSchwartz so I'm not going to be able to complete this task?
ZoffixW RandalSchwartz, I've seen several commits fly through this morning into it tho. Maybe Skarsnik would know more.
jdv79 Bailador takes long but not that long
skids ZoffixW: I view that as a feature. You tune what you're willing to except in your installer/repo manager.
Skarsnik err DBIish should install?
skids *accept
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jdv79 Skarsnik: you installed it today? 18:01
RandalSchwartz yes I noticed that. And DBIsh also failed because I don't have every possible server installed. :)
ZoffixW skids, on a scale between -10 (complete misfeature) and 10 (good feature), I view :auth<> as -3
Skarsnik Nop but travis build ok
maybe I should add a panda --install . at the end?
jdv79 its the install though
the precomp its taking forever they say
skids ZoffixW: if the ecosystem repos you are using are unstable or unreliable, that's a problem with the repo, to fixed on that end. 18:02
Su-Shee if one of you gets to the press release/release notes for .. "us common folks" and the internet mob, I'd love to link, tweet, and spread it.. I'd need a simple "yay, awesome perl 6 features, unicode, numbers, threads, types, whatever now go make awesome things with it", just one page really. with a download link.
Skarsnik precomp is very slow latelty lol
jberger Su-Shee++ me too
RandalSchwartz oh, so it's actually compiling during this install into something intermediate?
ZoffixW Su-Shee, jberger I'll ping ya :)
Su-Shee ZoffixW: excellent. 18:03
ZoffixW RandalSchwartz, yes, pre-compilation. Makes subsequent start ups for stuff using those modules faster
Su-Shee ZoffixW: don't be shy, make it hip. ;)
stmuk it all mostly works! certainly the test suite is in better state than the last week to 10 days
Skarsnik DBIish should install even if you have no working lib for t
ZoffixW & commute 18:04
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RandalSchwartz yes... it made it past that 18:04
yeah... at least moar seems to be running something. :) 18:05
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Skarsnik Someone has an idea why Inline::Perl5 just fail all its test? 18:05
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TimToady does it say anything? 18:06
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Skarsnik gist.github.com/Skarsnik/5546acb9b7be2aaa2a8b 18:07
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Skarsnik parse errors: no plan found? hm weird 18:07
awwaiid sounds like no output at all 18:08
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TimToady sounds like an old/corrupt Test precompile 18:08
try blowing away install/share/perl6 maybe
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xtreak29 Are perl6 threads lightweight like goroutines? 18:08
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TimToady Skarsnik: it's passing here, btw, so I suspect a local precomp issue 18:09
flussence xtreak29: not familiar with go, but perl6 threads behave a lot like libgcd's in practice 18:10
s/libgcd/libdispatch
TimToady xtreak29: yes, they're really an abstraction that gets run by various actual worker threads underneath 18:11
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timotimo how is zef these days btw? 18:12
TimToady Skarsnik: so my Inline::Perl5 passes all its tests, then fails the install because it's already installed, which seems a bit off
xtreak29 goroutines are lightweight threads with 4kb at start and then expand on need.. I saw a talk where rob pike spinned up and killed a million of them in few seconds..
stmuk panda --force install Inline::Perl5
skids TimToady: That seems to be normal behavior these days for all modules 18:13
stmuk will reinstall a module
flussence is there an env var I can use to force-disable precomp?
dalek ast: 1b0a10c | coke++ | README:
Someday is here
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stmuk flussence: no I started to look at that but couldn't work it out 18:14
autarch is there any way to get perl6 to tell me how it's trying to match a multi?
some sort of debugging output
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stmuk flussence: you can use "no precompilation" pragmas 18:14
flussence stmuk: that doesn't help when I'm trying to write an ebuild :) 18:15
[Coke] Su-Shee: updated gist.github.com/coke/dc55e617e76a6f7082f9 to note that I'm going to post an advent post with the release announcement.
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TimToady autarch: that would be difficult; it is, by necessity, very low-level code that has to run blazing fast 18:15
autarch makes sense
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TimToady that being said, there's a fast path, and a slow path, so one could hope to instrument the slow path without slowing the fast path 18:16
autarch I'm trying to figure out why panda's gen-meta isn't matching a specific multi when given arguments
TimToady but I don't think it has much instrumentation of that nature
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RandalSchwartz Hmm... moar is still moaring on DBIsh 18:16
I'll give it a bit... uh.. more.
TimToady I suspect it's hung 18:17
dalek kudo/nom: 313832d | FROGGS++ | src/Perl6/Actions.nqp:
fix explosion found by lucasb++ because missing .node

m: say ({ 42 } while $++ < 3) rakudo-moar e34842: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot find method 'CURSOR'␤»
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stmuk no it's just very slow
awwaiid autarch: one thing to note with panda is that the options come BEFORE the action, unlike git or other action-based cli
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autarch awwaiid: that could explain it 18:17
jdv79 coo. IO::Capture::Simple is broke too? so H::UA is a bust atm:(
autarch yep, that was the problem - that's _really_ confusing and non-standard, it'd be nice to fix that somehow 18:18
dalek ast/6.c: 485f471 | coke++ | README:
Note which version of the spec this branch is for
awwaiid autarch: github.com/tadzik/panda/issues/256
autarch seems like a core issue based on that issue discussion 18:19
but maybe the solution is to write a simple module that command-pattern scripts like this can use
awwaiid autarch: my inclination is, now that there are more eyeballs, go ahead and "fix" panda, trying to talk tadzik into it :)
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awwaiid yeah, shared command-pattern lib good idea 18:19
TimToady or fix MAIN to support it 18:20
awwaiid even better
TimToady but probably not this side of xmas
awwaiid but I don't know what that would look like
yeah
TimToady it's actually been in my todo list for a while, but never bubbled up to the top 18:21
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TimToady one could write a shim in the mainline that moves all --foo to the front of @*ARGS before MAIN sees it, but that'd just be a hack 18:22
awwaiid autarch: I bet with that and xmas in mind, tadzik would accept a normalization MAIN that then re-dispatched to the others
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TimToady but yeah, we really need the input processing to create multiple captures that dispatch at different levels 18:22
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TimToady rather than just clumping all switches together 18:23
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dalek ast/6.c: 3dea37e | coke++ | S (63 files):
Remove any tests not currently part of Christmas

These files will remain on master and can be pulled into this branch if we determine they are part of the spec.		 18:23
TimToady would be nice if 'panda help' explained that switches need to go in front
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[Coke] ok. There's a spec, such as it is. Feels anticlimactic. :) 18:24
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stmuk I added an example of the switches to panda 18:25
RandalSchwartz are there plans to make moar multi-threaded at some point?
stmuk it's at the top and scrolls by I guess
mspo isn't it?
RandalSchwartz well, why is this panda install using only one thread? 18:26
timotimo RandalSchwartz: yeah, we'v eplanned to make it multi-threaded more than a year ago, and actually also did make it multi-threaded
zef installs stuff in parallel
ugexe is responsible for that project. it's pretty cool, but i think it hasn't been updated to handle the newest changes yet
[Coke] RandalSchwartz: because panda is a script that wasn't written to be multi-threaded. 18:27
jdv79 it seemed broke a few days ago
[Coke] It could be, sure.
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RandalSchwartz does zef work better installing DBIsh? :) 18:27
jdv79 perfect timing
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awwaiid stmuk: TimToady: github.com/tadzik/panda/pull/268 -- made the note about switches in front louder :) 18:28
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[Coke] Note! Any changes made to roast going forward are NOT part of christmas unless you merge those tests into the 6.c branch. 18:28
TimToady were those test removed all outside of spectest.data? 18:29
[Coke] We should probably have a soft rule about that. At least get another pair of eyes on any test changes to 6.c
TimToady +1
[Coke] TimToady: that was the plan. Someone might want to double check that, but i just ran the "update-passing..." test and removed all the unrun tests it found.
timotimo RandalSchwartz: zef doesn't install anything at the moment
RandalSchwartz oh... so, no. 18:30
[Coke] Doing a test run with a 6.c checkout now.
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RandalSchwartz do I need Task::Start, or can I just let anything that needs it install its own depends? 18:30
I'm not doing anything with DBI at the moment
jdv79 it looks like it might be precomping the same file over and over
awwaiid RandalSchwartz: you should be fine with just depends rather than full Task::Star
TimToady someone should take out the auto-retry...oh wait... 18:31
[Coke] Thanks to everyone trying to kick the tires before tomorrow, btw.
awwaiid RandalSchwartz: ... and if there is a hidden dependency it should be fixed :)
timotimo oh lord. the first "buggy interaction of features" zefram shows in his talk is just the REPL being dumb
and i can't even read the damn code
RandalSchwartz I really wanted to try Inline::Perl6, which requires building Inline::Perl5 for Perl 6. :)
TimToady wonders if it would help our launch to cut Task::Star way down for the moment
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RandalSchwartz Oh - can't do that. Still running with 5.16 on my laptop 18:32
jdv79 taking DBIish out is pretty obvious.
[Coke] TimToady: I'm thinking that instead of saying "here's what we added in this release" like we normally do for the announcement, instead list various features/paradigms available in the spec/impl.
jdv79 most of task star is fine
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stmuk a star release in a few days is fine I think 18:32
mspo so does the announcement mean that the spec is stable for some amount of time?
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AndChat268400 Merry Xmas eve 18:32
TimToady yeah, but a lot of people may try it before then and get frustrated, and if it works again in a few days, can be put back in
[Coke] We don't have anyone on deck for a star release, that I know of.
mspo: yup 18:33
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TimToady mspo: that's the intention, we'll see how it works out after first contact with the enemy :) 18:33
mspo where is are moar and rakudo in terms of compliance?
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[Coke] we don't have a particular time frame, but you should be able to track the monthly releases now and get bug fixes and speedups instead of death and destruction. 18:33
timotimo hey everybody
[Coke] moar isn't perl6. it's a backend.
timotimo should we kick out the REPL part of rakudo?
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timotimo or just a big fat warning? 18:34
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[Coke] TimToady: what's wrong with the REPL? 18:34
er, timotimo.
TimToady besides sucking?
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timotimo well, in this example here, zefram could assign CORE:: into my Int $a 18:34
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ZoffixMobile cutting R* is definitely a good option. I rather people get something usable without errors than include all sorts of modules. 18:35
stmuk is going to see what subset of the current Task::Star works quickly
[Coke] with linenoise, it's been tolerable.
TimToady stmuk: thanks!
lucasb m: my Int $x = CORE; say $x
camelia rakudo-moar 313832: OUTPUT«(CORE)␤»
lucasb it's not just in the REPL :)
timotimo er, huh?
ZoffixMobile [Coke], is it hard to cut R* release? I'm free for the next 4 days, but I dunno what to do
[Coke] mspo: rakudo is (not quite tautologically) at 100% of spec compliance on 2 or 3 platforms at the moment.
timotimo ah, i locally tried my Int $x = CORE::; that one blows up
so ... how the fuck does that happen %) 18:36
TimToady maybe a repl without history could come up with a suggesting to install linenoise or rlwrap
[Coke] ZoffixMobile: if you've never done it before, christmas is probably not the time to cut your teeth on it.
lucasb timotimo: I tried watching his talk, but couldn't read anything on the screen, so I gave up
[Coke] TimToady++
timotimo m: my Int $x = CORE; dd $x
camelia rakudo-moar 313832: OUTPUT«CORE $x = CORE␤»
ZoffixMobile [Coke], good point :)
timotimo it changes the type of the variable, even
[Coke] ponders a faq, "no, dd is not part of the spec"
jdv79 18 mins and counting so far 18:37
mspo it isn't? :)
TimToady that's a pretty amazing bug, but I wouldn't call it a blocker
jdv79 wonder if its an infiloopy thing
[Coke] "There's always next month", said the overworked volunteers.
(which, btw, is a good thing) 18:38
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geekosaur still thinks there's always Orthodox Christmas if necessary 18:38
lucasb jdv79: what is hanging for you?
TimToady DBIish precomp, I presume 18:39
timotimo the next thing he brings up is "you can pull IterationEnd out of the CORE symbol table and it'll stop any map or grep that's run over multiple values containing that thing"
jdv79 ==> Installing DBIish
sdo merry Xmas
jdv79 yeah, tis precomping over and over
lucasb ah, ok. I waited more than 30 minutes to install 007, but then I gave up :(
jdv79 did DBIish install for you? 18:40
lucasb didn't try DBIish
stmuk I have seen DBIish install in the last day or so but it took ~20mins
not sure if it always works
jdv79 i'm at 22mins now
and the strace is a loop to my eyes
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lucasb It looks like precomp keeps re-generating the same *.rev-deps files 18:41
jdv79 i just see it precomping one of the SQLite files over and over 18:42
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autarch can someone tell me how to add a module to the ecosystem? 18:43
jdv79 because the 101st time will be different?!
add it to the META.list file in the perl6 eco repo
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awwaiid autarch: PR on github.com/perl6/ecosystem 18:43
RabidGravy is there an indirect circular dependency?
flussence doc.perl6.org/language/modules#Dist...ng_Modules 18:44
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[Coke] autarch: doc.perl6.org/language/modules#Dist...ng_Modules 18:44
flussence++ # coke too slow
autarch yeah, I had read that - the last step says "Ping someone on IRC (#perl6 at freenode) to either show you how to add your module to the ecosystem, or else ask them if they could please add it for you." - that's where I was
dalek c: f14aae5 | (Anthony Parsons)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod:
Fix typo
 18:45
awwaiid autarch: I'm going to fix the doc for that right now.
autarch since I have commit access is it ok to commit directly to master in that repo?
TimToady the big question is at what point it's looping; does it actually finish and do the whole thing over? if so, we can probably short-circuit the loop somehow and call it done
ZoffixMobile autarch, yes
TimToady if not, we can maybe at least abort precomp and install it without precomp
dalek ecosystem: 7841fce | (Dave Rolsky)++ | META.list: 18:46
ecosystem: Add Pod::TreeWalker to ecosystem
ecosystem:
ecosystem: <img class="alignnone wp-image-2908" src="perl6advent.files.wordpress.com/20...small.png" alt="Camelia-small" width="147" height="107" />
ecosystem:
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autarch pood, done 18:46
poof*
flussence TimToady: I ^C'ed it on Net::HTTP and the result seemed to run fine, so probably
timotimo i don't think it's a valid complaint, but here's some code zefram threw up:
ZoffixMobile heh, nice commit message :)
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timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a[1] = slip(9, 9, 9); @a.map({ $_ }).perl.say 18:46
camelia rakudo-moar 313832: OUTPUT«(1, 9, 9, 9, 3).Seq␤»
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autarch ZoffixMobile: that's automatically filled in for me when I do the edit directly on github - not sure how that was configured 18:46
ZoffixMobile ahh 18:47
timotimo zefram argues that .map({ $_ }) should be an identity map, but isn't because the resulting list isn't the same as the incoming list
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cxreg when i'm installing all of Task::Star i sporadically get a "Cannot unbox a type object" error during installation 18:47
timotimo he argues that this should be the boilerplate everybody should use to identity-map whatever data you get, because it could contain slips you don't want to slip:
ZoffixMobile autarch, you've made 777th commit! :) too bad it's not a slot machine :p 18:48
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autarch we're rich in code 18:48
timotimo m: my @a = 1, 2, 3; @a[1] = slip(9,9,9); @a.map({ my @s = $_; @s.Slip }).perl.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 313832: OUTPUT«(1, slip$(9, 9, 9), 3).Seq␤»
ZoffixMobile cxreg, not sporadic: any dist with uninstalled prereqs. retrying fixes the issue
dalek c: b015b24 | (Brock Wilcox)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod:
Direct people to open PR on ecosystem
cxreg ZoffixMobile: parallelism bug?
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ZoffixMobile cxreg, no clue :( 18:49
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cxreg hm, i'm sure it'll get figured out eventually 18:49
jdv79 RabidGravy: i don't see one. but could be.
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jdv79 at 30mins i'm stopping 18:49
cxreg any spoilers on the time of release? 18:50
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ZoffixMobile cxreg, yes: "tomorrow" :) 18:51
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cxreg heh. tomorrow GMT is in a few hours 18:51
awwaiid cxreg: no more specific time is available to anyone
cxreg roger that 18:52
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timotimo oh, this is an interesting bug: 18:53
m: (1, 2, 3)[0] := 4
(hangs)
lucasb (suspense)
camelia rakudo-moar 313832: OUTPUT«(timeout)» 18:54
cxreg o_o
timotimo ah, zefram even found out the cause of the problem
and didn't tell us, i guess?
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cxreg that's how you destroy a replicant 18:54
stmuk grrr LWP::Simple is broken and is a dependency of quite a few Task::Star modules 18:57
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stmuk oh nine fixed it in a PR .. its not applied though 18:58
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lucasb m: say $(slip).perl 18:58
camelia rakudo-moar 313832: OUTPUT«slip$()␤»
stmuk github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple/pull/67
does anyone have access to github.com/cosimo/perl6-lwp-simple?
timotimo the slip thing seems a bit like a DIHWIDT, though. dunno.
lucasb ^^ just prepending 'slip' won't do the right thing with a itemized list
TimToady cxreg: given the Moar-folk won't be spinning their release till tomorrow, I don't see anything coming out at midnight, but it should still be Christmas in *someone*'s timezone :) 19:00
cxreg heh
TimToady meaning the 25th
stmuk I could hack the ecosystem to use nine's working LWP::Simple for a bit 19:01
cxreg either way, it's a minor miracle
timotimo TimToady: any comment on the "identity map" thing?
and now i'm wondering how to not-implement BIND-POS inside List
TimToady the point of a map is to *map* something, and the map is not the territory, duh 19:02
timotimo since Any has a fallback that is supposed to handle multi-dim bind-pos, but it accidentally also handles single-dimension bind-pos by not checking if the argument list has two arguments in it
TimToady one should use *.self if one wants and identity function
*an
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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa yo 19:03
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timotimo TimToady: well, mapping $_.self doesn't not-iterate the slip 19:03
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dalek osystem: c5bf53c | (Steve Mynott)++ | META.list:
migrate perl6-lwp-simple into perl6 for the moment
 19:09
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timotimo stmuk: why not into perl6-community-modules instead? 19:09
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timotimo anyway. binding to any subclass of Any that doesn't implement BIND-POS gives us an infinite recursion 19:10
stmuk timotimo: I wasn't aware of that .. if you want to do that . please do
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timotimo whatever's least friction at the moment is fine with me 19:10
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timotimo gist.github.com/timo/607c8de71020eebf68a3 - i suggest this patch for rakudo 19:11
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stmuk grrr it doesn't work .. is the META.list cached? 19:11
timotimo it takes a litle bit for the ecosystem website to update 19:12
and "panda update" is also required
stmuk ah I tried the "panda update" but need to wait for some cron I guess
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timotimo yeah 19:12
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TimToady oh lovely, Shell::Command uses 'as', and panda uses Shell::Command 19:14
skids That was fixed earlier today
ZoffixMobile yeah, it runs server/update-list.pl
timotimo panda has to pull in new versions with the update-subtree script
did anybody do that?
TimToady apparently not 19:15
timotimo has been familying a lot today
skids Before Shell::Command was fixed, lizmat pulled in 6073de4c which removed the "as" by hand. 19:17
So I don't know why anyone is seeing it anymore. 19:18
I'm not.
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TimToady I guess I'll try the nuclear option 19:19
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stmuk I have a Task::Star installing with only two modules removed I think .. 19:20
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cxreg "The MONKEY pragmas" sounds like a book series 19:23
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stmuk trying on another platform 19:24
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ChoHag Can I print the call stack at a given point? 19:26
stmuk say ~Backtrace.new
ecosystem-api.p6c.org/projects.json still hasn't changed!
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stmuk is anyone able to manually refresh that? 19:27
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RandalSchwartz now DBIish is failing differently 19:28
... DBIish:ver<*>:auth<>:api<> already installed
RabidGravy :-\
stmuk RandalSchwartz: look at the panda examples at the top
--force
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dalek kudo/nom: 986f98d | timotimo++ | src/core/Any.pm:
if multidim BIND-POS candidate fires for single-dim ...

we're in trouble, because that means the class we're a part of doesn't implement binding. So we throw X::Bind.		 19:29
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quux is it realy happening?? 19:29
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RandalSchwartz and of course, I intuitively typed: panda install --force Task::Star 19:29
timotimo that fixes the hang of (1, 2, 3)[0] := 4, but it also makes (Any.new())[1] := 5 not hang, but die, as it should.
RandalSchwartz that argument is really in the wrong place
TimToady is testing a bandaid fix to the precompile loop 19:30
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ChoHag Is $foo[*-1] (where $foo does Positional) supposed to call $foo's list method? 19:30
RandalSchwartz because --force is an adverb on install
ChoHag The document suggests otherwise.
RandalSchwartz not on panda
timotimo ChoHag: it at least has to figure ou tthe number of elements 19:31
not sure that should go through .list, though
ChoHag doc.perl6.org/language/subscripts suggests is uses .elems, which exists.
timotimo and $foo[1] doesn't call .list?
ChoHag No. 19:32
timotimo mhm mhm
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ChoHag I don't mind - and having it work that way revealed an off-by-one bug in my .list - but not sure if the documentation is wrong or unclear. 19:35
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krshn I am testing perl6/panda/task::star on mac 19:35
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stmuk can people try "panda update && panda --force install LWP::Simple" please? 19:37
TimToady I can at least tell you that the rev-dep-id precompile is recompiling the same id over and over
I do not yet know whether it's finite
cxreg RandalSchwartz: i got that same DBIish error just now. it hung and i killed it, and that happened on trying again
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krshn Cannot unbox a type object 19:38
in block at /Users/krshn/local/osx/share/perl6/site/sources/54D6C35C8308A2355B72B5AB93E9C21E57E7E2AF line 61
ChoHag TimToady: Get back to us after the heat death.
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krshn I ran "panda install Task::Star" 19:38
ChoHag Universe or CPU. Whichever comes first.
TimToady my attempted patch is to keep a %done array and skip precomps we've done, in the hopes that the input is finite
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RabidGravy krshn, run it again it should work 19:39
hankache i think DBIish should be removed from star
yoleaux 15:41Z <timotimo> hankache: if we should perhaps put the perl6intro text into rakudo star tarballs and such?
krshn RabidGravy: yes -- doing it now
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stmuk try removing both "DBIish" and "Bailador" from a local checkout of Task::Star .. that should now work 19:39
RabidGravy it sometimes fails when there are deps that aren't yet installed
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hankache .tell timotimo no problem. I have pdf copies if it's easier 19:40
yoleaux hankache: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
timotimo very cool.
yoleaux 19:40Z <hankache> timotimo: no problem. I have pdf copies if it's easier
timotimo .botsnack
yoleaux :D
krshn running again -- I get this
==> Installing URI
Cannot unbox a type object
stmuk does anyone have access to github.com/tadzik/Task-Star
asht Hi mates, new to Perl 6. just installed rakudo on mac os/x. panda is giving errors when installing module Inline::Perl5 prereq Pod::Coverage: 19:41
hankache timotimo as a matter of fact I am finalizing it right now
timotimo asht: we're currently very busy fixing last bits; i'm not sure, but i think your problem might be known 19:42
krshn should I put Task::Star in the back-burner and test LWP::Simple instead?
stmuk krshn: trying LWP::Simple would help .. you might have to "panda update"
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krshn stmuk: ok trying panda update && panda --force install LWP::Simple 19:43
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krshn How does LWP::Simple look on linux? I can test that too 19:44
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krshn stmuk: worked on mac 19:44
no issues
using yosemite
stmuk krshn: also "git clone [email@hidden.address] and "panda install ." in target might work
krshn latest xcode
TimToady now testing my patch on DBIish 19:45
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krshn ok.. let me test 19:45
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TimToady yatta! 19:47
krshn stmuk: can you give me url without git@.. I have not setup git hub yet to use do authentication
TimToady should run a spectest before checking in the fix, however
stmuk github.com/stmuk/Task-Star.git
krshn thanks
TimToady but think I've solved the hung install problem
krshn I did a quick search and yours did not come up
TimToady (my log of DBIish showed that it probably would have finished eventually, but after doing many, many unnecessary precomps) 19:48
timotimo again and again and again ... :)
stmuk I did see it finish once .. I guess I was lucky :) 19:49
timotimo what's the function called again that has two arguments and grows incredibly fast?
perhaps we were trying to implement that just with precompilation
ackermann
hankache woot! I added a new chapter on functional programming #perl6intro.com
krshn stmuk: works on mac 19:50
task::star
stmuk krshn: thanks for your help .. just retesting on linux
krshn no problems
anything else I can help
I have access to redhat 5, ubuntu, mac yosemite
FROGGS TimToady: yesterday the install_core_dists.pl also recompiled stuff again and again... might that be related? 19:51
krshn ubuntu 12.4 i think
pretty dated :-)
stmuk testing on redhat 5 might be useful ... I guess of us use more recent debianish distros
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krshn ok.. will do it on redhat 5 19:51
FROGGS I used 12.4 until two weeks ago
TimToady FROGGS: could well be 19:52
FROGGS err, no, 14.4
hoelzro o/ #perl6
brrt i'm using fedora but that is quite Ala different beast
hoelzro I don't have a whole lot of free time today, but is there anything I can help with?
TimToady there will be a RAKUDO_LOG_PRECOMP envvar that you can watch what it's precomping while it's working
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FROGGS TimToady: nice 19:52
hoelzro: hi
hoelzro o/ FROGGS
TimToady it works through panda too, that way 19:53
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hankache away for lunch 19:54
will be back later
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ugexe timotimo: hey, regarding zef status: its still actively developed despite the lack of a recent public release. mostly waiting on precompilation issues and custom CUR loading (loaded before other modules so the custom CUR can not just install but load). I've been lucky to get most of this development time funded, but thats also why I won't release a partially finished result or change the milestones :( 19:56
Rotwang Hi, could someone tell me why:
ugexe on the plus side it does work with metacpan
Rotwang m: my @a[0] = 1;
camelia rakudo-moar 986f98: OUTPUT«Index 0 for dimension 1 out of range (must be 0..-1)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/44JWEKl7_Z line 1␤␤»
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nine TimToady: what was wrong exactly? 19:57
quux perl 6!
FROGGS hi quux
timotimo ugexe: oh, sounds good!
quux hi 19:58
FROGGS Rotwang: you're declaring an array with a dimension there, an that cannot be zero
m: my @a[1] = 1;
camelia ( no output )
Rotwang FROGGS: ok, thanks
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TimToady the rev dependency lists produces lots of duplicates 19:59
jdv79 ugexe: is that usable in anh form?
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TimToady nine: I'll go ahead and check in my "fix", and you can fix it better if you like 19:59
timotimo TimToady: since things pretend they're a list of themselves, should $a[0] := 1 be the same as $a := 1, actually?
FROGGS TimToady / nine: that fits, I got the feeling the install_core_dist.pl takes longer and longer every time 20:00
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dalek kudo/nom: 11040a7 | TimToady++ | src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm:
dedup precomps
 20:00
FROGGS timotimo: is that sensible or does that just cover a braino?
TimToady nine ^^
timotimo TimToady: what "that" exactly? 20:01
m: (1, 2, 3)[0] := 1
camelia rakudo-moar 986f98: OUTPUT«Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/kR29jFz0aP line 1␤␤»
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timotimo m: (Int)[0] := 1 20:01
camelia rakudo-moar 986f98: OUTPUT«Cannot call BIND-POS(Int: Int, Int); none of these signatures match:␤ (Any:D $: **@indices is raw, *%_)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/VytyU7jPn6 line 1␤␤»
timotimo m: (10)[0] := 1
camelia rakudo-moar 986f98: OUTPUT«Cannot use bind operator with this left-hand side␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/JUzgZehixi line 1␤␤»
jdv79 interesting. wonder where all the dups come from.
timotimo the first one and last one used to hang
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timotimo i'm just now writing tests that test that these things should throw X::Bind 20:03
but i'm not entirely sure that's the right thing.
ugexe jdv79: only as much as metacpan currently allows. im sure you know what the problems are regarding dists actually on metacpan. but it uses the metacpan API to obtain the metadata, and fetches/extracts the .tar.gz archive
jdv79 the p5 metacpan? 20:04
ugexe yes, i couldnt figure out how to access the api for the version you have on hack (although I tried)
jdv79 ust curious how you are doing the resolving and recommendation parts
with the auth, ver, api, and different collections to choose from 20:05
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nine TimToady: there's already RAKUDO_MODULE_DEBUG with some infrastructure 20:05
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jdv79 is there a collection hierarchy? is there a way to force it to fetch from only one place or block a place. 20:05
TimToady well, this is something a panda --verbose could set if it wanted to
jdv79 i'd like to get into that soon
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TimToady not sure panda --verbose would want all the debugging... 20:06
tadzik stmuk: yes, me
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TimToady nine: I was just trying the simplest thing that could possibly work :) 20:06
ugexe it will use any ContentStorage that is configured in the configuration file (or explicity chosen with a command line flag) 20:07
TimToady and it seems to've, wonder of wonders...
jdv79 nice
TimToady is quite certain he's never see the word "to've" before...
brrt quite likely
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stmuk github.com/tadzik/Task-Star/pull/9 20:08
brrt twas understood though
nine I'd prefer if we avoided writing redundant entries in the first place so repository implementations wouldn't have to deal with it
stmuk I'm suggest removing Bailidor and DBIish unless other fixes work
ugexe versions and auth are hacked together as much as i could do with the current state of metacpan, so as you probably guessed its just string concating to create the identity t should look for
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jdv79 stmuk: i think what TimToady just did may be the ticket, no? 20:08
ugexe and then does some local filtering of meta data to get what you really want 20:09
jdv79 i'm rebuilding now
nine TimToady: thanks for fixing my bug in any case
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jdv79 ugexe: ok 20:09
stmuk jdv79: yes hence "unless other fixes work
:) 20:10
TimToady I successfully precomped DBIish, anyway
stmuk yay
TimToady though haven't tried it in my rakudobrew dir
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quux I like the perl talk you gave about lord of the rigns 20:10
i'm reading the silmarrilion
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ugexe jdv79: is there a way to access the actual API to the metacpan stuff you have on hack? 20:11
TimToady trying that now...
jdv79 its there. port 5000 i think i what you are asking for
what is normally api....
ugexe api.metacpan.org/v0/$api-stuff
tadzik stmuk: what's the problem with them, the installation time? 20:12
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jdv79 ugexe: hack.p6c.org:5000/v0/release/_searc...ion:DBIish 20:13
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nine TimToady: don't know if I'll be able to sneak away from Christmas celebrations, so I guess we'll just go with your fix. To my shame the same problem appeared with the .deps files, too, so I could have anticipated rev-deps... 20:14
RabidGravy I'm doing quite well here, only a quarter of the modules thus far have needed fixing
jdv79 ugexe: that download_url is unforunate - it should be the other port *sigh*
stmuk tadzik: yes which may be fixed
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ChoHag What's the closest perl6 thing to perldoc Mod::ule? 20:15
tadzik stmuk: but is it already dropped from Star itself? I try to have Task::Star follow that
ugexe jdv79: ah cool, that will help. i was hoping the <metadata> would use meta-spec 6 (or whatever META6.json is)
jdv79 Bailadfor installed in 3m here
way better than before ~ 10min
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jdv79 ugexe: in what way. it is kinda shorhorned atm 20:16
stmuk tadzik: ah I thought Task::Star was master
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jdv79 one of those messy details for later unless its important to you sooner 20:16
*shoehorned
tadzik stmuk: it probably should be somehow integrated, I'm not very good at keeping it up-to-date 20:17
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stmuk OK will close PR 20:17
tadzik I'm having a shameful shortage of tuits these... years
TimToady RandalSchwartz: I think if you 'rakudobrew build moar' again you should be able to finish DBIish now
and you can watch its progress now if you say: RAKUDO_LOG_PRECOMP=1 panda --force install DBIish 20:18
jdv79 now what are the chances of finding a resturant open now in berlin. i'm pretty sure this mission wil fail.
flussence tadzik: I know the feeling, been procrastinating on some projects since before I started using p6 :(
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jdv79 wow! DBIish installed in 3m here as well 20:18
ugexe jdv79: i was guessing that all the data was generated *from* the <metadata> field itself, and that the <metadata> field was the meta/makefile data as distributed in the actual distribution. i.e. <metadata> would be the literal META6.json of the distribution
jdv79 TimToady++
nine TimToady++ indeed :) 20:19
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cxreg TimToady++ # merry 6mas 20:19
tadzik flussence: in my case it embarrasingly coincided with the release of Steam for linux ;P
flussence I've got no excuse, never got that damn thing to work right :)
jdv79 ugexe: well, for p5 its something like meta.json transformed into a meta obj thing 20:20
TimToady was just trying to help out his old pal RandalSchwartz++
jdv79 it could be different for p6, probably should be.
its largely very similar as far as i've soon so far though
tadzik Skarsnik: yt? 20:21
cxreg once upon a time there was accomodation for multiple versions/authors of a module loaded at once. is that still so?
jdv79 ugexe: what do you need from it?
maybe that'll help give me or whoever direction
but i must at least look for food now. later.
cxreg i've become quite fond of nodejs's load-by-reference model that discards the symbol table 20:22
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TimToady cxreg: in theory, using 'need' instead of 'use' just loads the module without import, but I dunno if we get name collisions anywhere that way 20:23
it's possible we're still storing things under the short name, in which case, the short answer is "no"
and the long answer is "not yet" 20:24
:)
Skarsnik tadzik, yes?
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stmuk does Bailador install? 20:25
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stmuk and is the multiple install fix for "unbox" still needed? 20:26
"fix" :)
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asht_ just installed rukudo on mac os x and windows. panda fails to install Inline::Perl5 on both platforms 20:26
cxreg TimToady: cool. maybe later? is it crazy to imagine a version of need/use that skips the symbol table or returns some localized one to the caller?
my $Foo-Bar = need Foo::Bar; 20:27
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asht_ any one with ideas on what could be wrong? On windows it complains no program ccalled "git" when it tries to get module from goit:://github.... 20:27
nine TimToady: I think jnthn++ did some work in that direction, but there's a link missing between module loading and class naming 20:28
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stmuk asht_: doc.perl6.org/language/faq#As_a_Per...install%3F 20:28
TimToady ==> Successfully installed Task::Star \o/
ugexe jdv79: nothing in particular, mostly for ease of use. i have a fallback that tries to generate a meta6 without using the <metadata> field. but things like identity strings for prereqs/depends involving authority/api stuff would work better using the META6 spec i think. i think i might have run into something regarding replacing '::' with '-' like meta-spec 2 does when a module name actually has a '-' in it.
stmuk asht_: "You will need Windows Git to use panda"
TimToady++
pmurias is there a special christmas rakudo release today? 20:29
TimToady tomorrow
asht_ where can I get windows GIT?
TimToady sometime on the 25th, somewhere in the world :) 20:30
stmuk asht_: lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+GIT
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Rotwang What about this one: 20:30
m: say (**/2)(4,4)
camelia rakudo-moar 11040a: OUTPUT«(2 2)␤»
Rotwang what on earth just happened? 20:31
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Rotwang Two stars have special semantics? 20:33
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ranguard www.cpan.org/authors/id/P/PS/PSIXDISTS/Perl6/ now being populated from modules.perl.org 20:34
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TimToady Rotwang: yes, that's a HyperWhatever, works on a list 20:34
stmuk ranguard++
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TimToady m: say WHAT ** 20:35
camelia rakudo-moar 11040a: OUTPUT«(HyperWhatever)␤»
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Rotwang TimToady: thanks, there is much to learn over christmas C: 20:36
vendethiel waves 20:37
rindolf Hi all! To commemorate the release of Perl 6 , I think I'll translate my solution to the most recent Project Euler problem to Perl 6.
Skarsnik i:p5 still does not want to install :( 20:38
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TimToady installed for me 20:40
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TimToady did you rebuild moar? 20:40
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perlpilot Who is doing the PSIXDISTS uploads to CPAN? 20:42
ranguard me
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nine Skarsnik: what goes wrong? 20:43
stmuk confesses his ecosystem module stealing crime to cosimo
Skarsnik Yes I just nuke and rebuild 10 min ago
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Skarsnik gist.github.com/Skarsnik/5546acb9b7be2aaa2a8b 20:43
perlpilot ranguard: to what end exactly?
Skarsnik could is be my perl5 version? (5.20) 20:44
ranguard perlpilot: github.com/perl6modules/perl6-module-uploader
stmuk ranguard++ # DoS protection from Chinese Govt
Bleary Merry Christmas from Melbourne, AU. Five sugar high children here... I'm trying to explain my stocking has a programming language in it :-) 20:45
TimToady Skarsnik: are you running this as root?
ranguard perlpilot: slightly out of date - the version bit... as I need a version that gets indexed to help jdv79 with metacpan6
RabidGravy stmuk, hey I've just copied a third of a module into one of mine since it never got fixed after the GLR and I only needed ten lines of code 20:46
perlpilot ranguard: yeah, I understand what your doing now. I had some lingering worries, but they've been answered. Thanks.
ranguard :) 20:47
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nine Skarsnik: is your perl cimpiled with -fPIC like the README describes? 20:48
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perlpilot So ... how do I upload my Perl 6 stuff to CPAN? is it just as easy as provising a META6.json in the tarball? 20:48
s/provising/providing/ 20:49
Skarsnik Yes I am running stuff as root x)
nine, How I can check that? it's perl5 from debian stable x)
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ranguard perlpilot: and using a subdir of Perl6 20:49
perlpilot: pause.perl.org/pause/authenquery?ACTION=add_uri has instructions 20:50
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perlpilot cool. I may try it in the next week or so. 20:50
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nine perl -V prints a lot 20:50
perlpilot anyway ... Merry Christmas all! 20:51
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perlpilot has to run 20:51
perlpilot *poof*
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Skarsnik Dynamic Linking: 20:51
dlsrc=dl_dlopen.xs, dlext=so, d_dlsymun=undef, ccdlflags='-Wl,-E'
cccdlflags='-fPIC', lddlflags='-shared -L/usr/local/lib -fstack-protector'
I guess it's fine?
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cxreg does panda pull from cpan? i thought it was separate 20:52
TimToady Skarsnik: it's possible that perl is automatically turning on tainting when run as root
ranguard cxreg: not yet
TimToady so try it outside of root
cxreg ranguard: oh ok, still the case, thx
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Skarsnik TimToady, sound like an issue if you can't install I:p5 system wide as root x) 20:54
TimToady yeah, but it's not an xmas issue because we're not promising system-wide installation yet 20:55
atweiden vim users of youcompleteme, i think i figured out why kebab case completions aren't working 20:56
there needs to be a custom ruleset for p6 at: github.com/Valloric/ycmd/blob/mast...ils.py#L69
flussence dryly notes that smoke.perl6.org is massively more helpful than testers.p6c.org right now, because the former is showing 40% of the ecosystem broken while the latter is claiming everything's all green all the time...
leont wait status 11 means segfault
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leont Skarsnik: ^ 20:57
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Skarsnik damn smoke is interesting :) 20:58
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leont I'd advice running one of those tests with GDB and see what shows up 21:00
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dalek c: 8e543e3 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
doc Assignment Operators
 21:02
c: 7c1a0c0 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #262 from gfldex/master

doc Assignment Operators
RabidGravy gah, sergot you in the house? 21:04
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atweiden rakudo nom fails at `make install`: ix.io/mYc 21:06
tools/build/install-core-dist.pl at issue
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moritz PSA: shop.spreadshirt.de/rakudo/ now has lambdacamel t-shirts 21:08
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ZoffixWin flussence: note that smoke page is like 20 days old 21:11
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ZoffixWin
.oO( second system? )
 21:12
tadzik Skarsnik: so I tried the Any/null test, and it works even wihtout the code changes
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dalek c: 12df7b2 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
explain Meta Operators
 21:12
c: ad5fae0 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #263 from gfldex/master

explain Meta Operators
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ZoffixWin wants a black mug with camelia and "Just another Perl 6 hacker" on it... 21:15
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leont tap-harness passes its tests again \o/ (though minus a feature until a rakudobug is fixed) 21:17
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flussence ZoffixWin: that's a very good point (I assume it's been failing to complete a daily run since then), but at the same time, the other one doesn't even have timestamps! 21:19
ZoffixWin flussence: well, at the bottom it says "generated at Dec 24" 21:20
atweiden between 2015.11 release and now, did something change in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blame/nom...tion.pm#L7 to make it no longer take DESTDIR (`make DESTDIR=...`) into consideration when checking for path writeability?
Guest11856 why is perl 6 named "perl 6" if it's a completely new language, isn't it damanging both ecosystems?
ZoffixWin Guest11856: the answer is "history" 21:21
flussence Guest11856: why is C# named C#?
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ZoffixWin Guest11856: as for damage, I'm not sure why you think there would be any damage. 21:21
Guest11856: if you care to elaborate, I can answer more questions.
dalek kudo/nom: 6c3e8ad | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
Suppress usually harmless DISLOCATED MESSAGEs

The need for this bug flusher outer is largely past.
kudo/nom: 08ba7f5 | TimToady++ | tools/build/NQP_REVISION:
bump NQP to get sprintf message fix

and apparently a lot of other accumulated changes that we'd better get some time on before release...
tadzik it's half a tone higher than C, duh
ZoffixWin tadzik++
flussence *groan* :)
dalek p: b345d13 | TimToady++ | / (2 files):
improve LTA sprintf message

Otherwise people are clueless what "directives" mean...		 21:22
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Guest11856 ZoffixWin, it carries all the stigma that perl has over perl 6 21:23
RabidGravy Skarsnik, you know everything about how NativeCall finds the libraries don't you
leont How can I figure out why my Koalatee score isn't 100%? If I click on the number/link, I get a "Not Implemented Yet" error
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ZoffixWin Guest11856: which stigma in particular? 21:23
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Guest11856 people also thing that perl 6 is just another version of perl, but they're completely different 21:23
ZoffixWin Guest11856: true. 21:24
Guest11856 ZoffixWin, it's old, it's line noise, it's spaghetti, ...
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RabidGravy it works 21:24
flussence I don't think we're targeting the sort of audience that base their entire prejudices on a number or name...
ZoffixWin Guest11856: but for historical reasons, it's too late to change the name. We just have to make the best out of the situation and if the two communities join together, I believe we can clarify any confusion
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ZoffixWin Guest11856: those arguments can be applied equally to Perl 6, regardless of what it's named. The only one that's not quite true is "it's old." 21:25
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Theophane o/ 21:25
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flussence
.oO( if you think the name is bad, wait 'til you bother to read the website for the first time... )
 21:26
ZoffixWin Guest11856: you're also leaving the beneficial aspects of the name. Perl is a well-known name.
s/leaving/leaving out/;
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Su-Shee oh well why is javascript named after java and it quite emancipated from that... 21:27
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ZoffixWin Guest11856: and since you mention that the damage is being done to both ecosystem, I disagree with that point. I think Perl 5 can get new users too. Users that haven't been following the Perl world and don't realize that P5 changed significantly. If they don't care about new P6 features, they could go and check out the improvements in P5. 21:28
Theophane Su-Shee: because of commercial interests :) 21:29
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Su-Shee Theophane: that was rhetorical to the subject. not a question. 21:29
ZoffixWin Guest11856: what are your thoughts on my reasoning?
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RabidGravy dun trollin 21:30
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ZoffixWin Ah :D 21:30
Oh
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Theophane Su-Shee: :P okay 21:30
ZoffixWin Guest11856: ronin! :) The name sounds familiar :)
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Su-Shee javascript managed very nicely to overcome its bad rep and become hip and clojure managed nicely to be a lisp finally used. perl 5&6 can only learn from that. 21:33
awwaiid HyperWhatever! so many things to learn :) 21:34
rindolf Hi all! With close to latest Rakudo moar, this program does not print the Discord line and instead starts consuming all CPU and RAM - www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/text...mif.p6.txt . Why?
hankache awaiid you like it?
the hyper operator is one of my favorites, no more for loops 21:35
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flussence saw hyperwhatever used for the first time a few days ago, and now can't remember what for 21:37
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awwaiid hankache: I haven't digested it yet, but I have been fascinated by the "regular" WhateverStar for a while now :) 21:38
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rindolf And happy holidays , everybody. 21:39
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RabidGravy anyone in a position to help work out how to fix the library function in OpenSSL 21:39
rindolf RabidGravy: the P6 module? 21:40
RabidGravy happy everything rindolf
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rindolf RabidGravy: thanks. 21:40
RabidGravy yeah
leont What are the Koalatee items anyway? The percentages suggest there are 5, but I can only find suggestions for 4 (has readme, has tests, has source-url and has provides)
dalek kudo-star-daily: dca119d | coke++ | log/ (8 files):
today (automated commit)
rindolf RabidGravy: ah, where is the code?
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RabidGravy this is the offending file github.com/jonathanstowe/openssl/b...iveLib.pm6 21:41
flussence RabidGravy: try replacing the bare 'libssl' string with just 'ssl', I think it does some magic if there's no .so appended now 21:42
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RabidGravy no tried that, it doesn't do quite the same magic if it's a Routine in the native trait 21:44
flussence ah, dunno then...
atweiden rakudo isn't building on arch due to this commit: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e4...349a71a895 21:45
DESTDIR is not being passed to github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...ion.pm#L9, so the installer thinks a writeable path DNE
ZoffixWin leont: not having a failing Travis is a point
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rindolf Does anyone have any idea about my problem? Am I doing anything wrong? 21:45
leont I see. Then I'm still not sure which ones I'm failing :-/ 21:46
flussence atweiden: thanks for tracking it down! exact same problem's happening on gentoo but I had no idea where to begin
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ZoffixWin leont: which dist? 21:47
leont YAMLish and Path::Iterator
Ow wait, YAMLish is missing a README 21:48
leont is just blind -_-
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dalek kudo/nom: 70ab538 | TimToady++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.nqp:
whoops, only comment the message, not the return
 21:49
rindolf I see - I had a |= instead of a +|= - and it caused the runtime to FUBAR. 21:50
Now it runs but yields the wrong result . :-(
awwaiid rindolf: I'm practicing hitting it with LREP; one hting is that if you try to print out $mymin right at Pinkie it hangs; I don't know what is in there but seems bad
ahh
rindolf awwaiid: ah,
awwaiid yeah -- $mymin.WHAT -> (Junction) 21:51
interesting
dalek c: d82b06c | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
doc Assignment Operators
c: c35787f | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #265 from gfldex/master

doc Assignment Operators
awwaiid with your change, $mymin is an Int == 864691128455135232
ZoffixWin got distracted 21:52
flussence that looks vaguely 2**63ish
ZoffixWin leont: YAMLish is losing 20% for missing README
flussence m: say 2**63
camelia rakudo-moar 08ba7f: OUTPUT«9223372036854775808␤»
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dalek ast: 57179ad | TimToady++ | S32-str/sprintf.t:
test for upgraded printf directives message
 21:52
flussence well, some of the digits match...
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regreg is there any release date for final xmas rakudo on windows? 21:52
travis-ci Rakudo build failed. TimToady 'bump NQP to get sprintf message fix
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/98722290 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/1...ba7f504143
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ZoffixWin leont: and so is the other dist 21:52
rindolf what's the equivalent of python -i (= run the script and then enter the REPL with all defs present) in perl6?
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atweiden flussence: really want to figure this out before christmas 21:53
ZoffixWin leont: sorry, I intend to make a proper Koaleety page that shows what's failing and why and how to fix it.
flussence atweiden: yeah, me too :(
ZoffixWin .... when I stop celebrating :)
ZoffixWin does another shot
atweiden i did find this though: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/f9...a43e700539
flussence compunit stuff is way over my head atm...
awwaiid don't think there is one, but you can try my LREP alternative REPL (which is not as good as the built in one for some definitions, but good for others). For this I did "panda install LREP", dropped "LREP::here" right after Pinkie, then perl6 -MLREP prob539-shlomif.p6 . Then you get a prompt
atweiden am now rerunning with `make install DESTDIR=... PERL6_LANG_DIR=...`
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rindolf awwaiid: are you talking to me? 21:54
TimToady .tell [Coke] where are the 6.c tests? I don't see a branch, and 57179ad needs to go over
yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to [Coke].
awwaiid rindolf: biggest drawback right now is that newly defined stuff doesn't get kept
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jdv79 ugexe: so obv you could walk deps one META6 file at a time like CPAN.pm does i think or maybe we could setup some special services off metacpan?... 21:54
awwaiid rindolf: yeah sorry, forgot to prefix my reply
[Coke] TimToady: I thought I pushed to a branch. checking.
yoleaux 21:54Z <TimToady> [Coke]: where are the 6.c tests? I don't see a branch, and 57179ad needs to go over
rindolf awwaiid: OK.
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[Coke] github.com/perl6/roast/tree/6.c ? 21:55
rindolf Maybe I'll just EVAL A cmd line arg.
TimToady how come it doesn't show up here as a git branch?
flussence TimToady: I see a remotes/origin/6.c in my local copy...
awwaiid rindolf: "LREP::here;" will start a REPL at that line and you can execute many (but not all) things in the context of your script execution
[Coke] hopes he didn't screw up the branching. 21:56
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TimToady I guess it doesn't show up here till I checkout it 21:57
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labster good postnoon, #perl6 21:57
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[Coke] seems to be fine in a fresh checkout 21:58
oh, you found it? ok.
Skarsnik RabidGravy, mostly, what is your issue?
[Coke] probably needed a branch -r or -a to see it before you made a local one.
dalek ast/6.c: 57179ad | TimToady++ | S32-str/sprintf.t:
test for upgraded printf directives message
 22:00
ast/6.c: 0cb65f1 | TimToady++ | S32-str/sprintf.t:
Merge commit '57179ad' into 6.c
TimToady did I do it right?
RabidGravy Skarsnik, actually I think it's cool - just use $*VM.platform-library-name in the github.com/jonathanstowe/openssl/b...iveLib.pm6
TimToady looks like, or it wouldn't have only listed one file
[Coke] seems plausible. :()
er, :)
rindolf awwaiid: thanks.
TimToady funny that a branch is invisible till you co it 22:01
[Coke] how were you looking for it?
TimToady git branch
awwaiid need "git branch -a" maybe
atweiden flussence: it appears setting PERL6_LANG_DIR=... is necessary but not sufficient
Skarsnik RabidGravy, hoo good find on openssl x) I did not manage to install h:ua so I did not stumble on that 22:02
[Coke] yah, that only shows local branches.
labster git branch -r
TimToady ah, yeah, that lists a whole lot more of 'em
well, gotta go play my fiddle at a Christmas Eve thingie, so I'd better go take a shower... 22:04
afk & 22:05
El_Che cheers TimToady , cheers #perl6
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dalek c: 8fe1835 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
doc Reversed Operators, the question "why?" remains unanswered.
 22:06
c: 1cbb2cf | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #266 from gfldex/master

doc Reversed Operators, the question "why?" remains unanswered.
RabidGravy sergot, I've sent a PR for OpenSSL
flussence has a sinking realisation that most of the people who'd know how this compunit stuff works aren't gonna be around until tomorrow, if at all... 22:07
pmurias Guest11856: The way 6 relates to 5 in Perl 6 vs Perl 5 is similiar to the way movies and computer games are versioned 22:08
RabidGravy :)
Skarsnik not a good day for me: Update Gumbo for nativecall change in lib, the module fail on a weird error now. I want to work on Discord module (for a bot of mine) http::ua does not install. I switch to write something to play with a movie format => inline:perl5 does not install xD 22:09
rindolf www.shlomifish.org/Files/files/text...mif.p6.txt - I am getting an empty b_exp at the Griffon line. 22:11
Skarsnik www.sandraandwoo.com/2015/12/24/074...languages/ too bad, no perl in this x)
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cygx merry almost-christmas o/ 22:14
vendethiel *g*
rindolf cygx: it's already 25-Dec here.
ZoffixWin rindolf: stop bragging, future boy :P 22:15
cygx re flags after arguments and MAIN, one of my scripts actually does this: gist.github.com/cygx/cd9d9e1ee0db7e680949
not a general solution, but good enough for what I was doing
rindolf: are you, like, from the future? 22:16
do you have flying cars yet?
rindolf cygx: heh.
Skarsnik rakudo does not like when the build fail in a middle for an external reason (not enought disk space) 22:17
need to nuke everytime lol
labster stop filling up your disk
rindolf Anyone knows what the problem is ? 22:18
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rindolf Griffon b_exp = <2..1> ==> this is wrong. 22:18
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[Coke] off-topicalyl hurls www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmi2orAKG3w - his kid's acapella group. 22:19
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dalek kudo/nom: 9cab516 | labster++ | Configure.pl:
document --make-install and --no-clean in Configure.pl
 22:20
atweiden flussence: sed -i 's/$.prefix.w/True/g' src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm
:)
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rindolf Oh, I needed triple dot. 22:20
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Skarsnik hm 22:21
In file included from src/vm/moar/ops/perl6_ops.c:2:0:
#include <uv.h>
/home/piko/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/include/moar/moar.h:24:16: fatal error: uv.h: Aucun fichier ou dossier de ce type
flussence atweiden: that looks... reeeeeeeally wrong but I'll give it a shot
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atweiden flussence: what it's not proper sed regex? :) 22:21
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flussence if I understand it right, it's changing the code so it thinks all paths are installable to even if they're root-owned 22:22
that'll probably explode the first time someone tries to install a module as a regular user 22:23
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flussence (which, admittedly, is an improvement over right now...) 22:24
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labster m: '/'.IO.mkdir # if anyone feels like fixing this one while poking around moar, that would be nice 22:24
camelia rakudo-moar 70ab53: OUTPUT«(signal SEGV)»
atweiden good point 22:25
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atweiden yea it's not a fix 22:25
RabidGravy ouch 22:26
dalek c: f12060a | ab5tract++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Clarify about assignment meta op
 22:27
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: 26f59ff | (Shlomi Fish)++ | categories/euler/prob539-shlomif.p6:
Add a solution to Euler #539.

It works but is incredibly crude.		 22:34
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dalek pan style="color: #395be5">perl6-examples: a4a4673 | (Shlomi Fish)++ | categories/euler/prob539-shlomif.p6:
Add missing trailing semicolons.
 22:36
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rindolf nuzzles dalek 22:36
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atweiden flussence: hmm it still doesn't build 22:36
rindolf Wow! these junction operators sure can yield subtle errors if used instead of the bitwise operators. 22:37
atweiden could be because i didn't set PERL6_LANG_DIR
RabidGravy All sorts of not installing action going on here 22:41
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leont Style question: in enum values, would you use Foo-Bar or Foo-bar? 22:42
atweiden nope this is fubar 22:44
flussence :(
TimToady leont: I'd use whatever looks best in the situation :) 22:45
atweiden flussence: now it's breaking on `my $lock //= $.prefix.child('repo.lock').open(:create, :w);`
(line 111 of Installation.pm) 22:46
flussence looks like it's trying to write where it's not allowed to...
RabidGravy I tend to go with CamelCase in enums, but that's just me
TimToady yeah, as honorary types, I'd tend to CamelCase too 22:47
I mean, yeah, they're really integers, but they parse like types
leont My head wants to make Camel Kebab out of it, not sure yet if that's sensible
flussence I've never used Arch, is it the same as in gentoo where things compile in a sandbox and the package manager merges the result to the live filesystem itself? 22:48
atweiden yes
flussence yup, guess we're both seeing the exact same problem then
leont Debian likes to do a similar thing, AFAIK
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Skarsnik still the same issue with i:p5 with a normal user :( 22:49
leont Skarsnik: tried gdb? 22:50
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travis-ci Rakudo build passed. Brent Laabs 'document --make-install and --no-clean in Configure.pl' 22:50
travis-ci.org/rakudo/rakudo/builds/98726639 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/compare/7...ab5167d94b
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Skarsnik leont, How I can do that with panda? 22:53
atweiden idk what rakudo/src/core/CompUnit/Repository/Installation.pm does exactly, but am strongly considering patching in an earlier version
idk what that blows up though
RabidGravy what do we do with a problem like maria
leont perl6-m-gdb -Ilib t/whatever.t
flussence it's part of the stuff responsible for precompiling on demand and loading the precomped files 22:54
problem is, it just puts those files wherever
leont Not sure how to make panda get you there though, there must be a way
flussence and wants to do so in the middle of compiling rakudo :(
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RandalSchwartz if I do "rakudobrew build moar", is that an incremental build with the latest commits? 22:55
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atweiden earlier version of tools/build/Makefile-Moar.in would probably be more sensical 22:55
sensible*
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Skarsnik leont, I mean I git clone I::perl5, I just need to run the configure to make it work? 22:56
leont RandalSchwartz: it's an upgrade, yes
RandalSchwartz ok thanks
leont Skarsnik: I think the panda-build command will help you
Skarsnik running autoload test it sigsev and with perl6-gdb it does nothing 22:58
Theophane hmm
TimToady hmm, on the throttle.t hangs, it appears to hang on the 8th test, which has these curious lines: 22:59
my @a; @a[9] = 0; # pre-size array to allow seamless multi-thread updates
(1..10).Supply.throttle( $n, { @a[$_] = 1 } ).wait;
is @a.sum, 10, "ok with $n at a time";
Theophane does anyone know if someone released a module with a pipe operator?
22:59 xtreak29 left
Theophane (or if it's a native operator) 22:59
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Skarsnik Should work like any other operator x) 23:00
TimToady is presizing an array really sufficient to allow multi-thread write access?
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flussence ...and ought code like that be able to work seamfully too? 23:02
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TimToady .ask jnthn see thread safety question I asked at irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2015-12-24#i_11773124 which might be related to hang of throttle.t 23:02
yoleaux TimToady: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
nine TimToady: it's a race condition that hits mostly when running parallel tests 23:04
TimToady: the block passed to throttle runs too fast
23:05 regreg left
TimToady is there a safe way to write the test that still, er, tests? 23:05
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nine I think it's a genuine bug. 23:05
TimToady is it just load based, or something more structural? 23:06
it's not like our parallel tests share an eval-server, at least on moar, ifaiu
so how could it be anything but load based? 23:07
nine It is load based. The block finishes before some thread handling or Supply's code finishes 23:08
cygx wonders if we should put the .precomp directories in a central location
23:08 BenGoldberg left
nine Typing on this phone is tedious 23:08
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flussence cygx: I tried writing a patch to do that, it didn't really solve anything 23:09
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cygx flussence: what was the issue? 23:09
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rindolf Good night everyone. 23:10
nine cygx: please read jnthn++'s gist with the module handling design before speculating about changes :)
flussence my initial reason was a petty "I don't want these cluttering up git-status output" :)
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flussence but also I think ugexe mentioned trying to load modules from a readonly filesystem doesn't work because of .precomp also 23:10
cygx nine: there's nqp::const::STAT_PLATFORM_DEV and nqp::const::STAT_PLATFORM_INODE, so the physical location of the file doesn't matter 23:11
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nine flussence: I thinkbthe read only issue can be fixed in a less drastic way 23:12
cygx: I'm not sure I can follow you there 23:13
TimToady cygx: and now's not the time to reorg things
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cygx you can keep the design as-is, but instead of adding .precomp to the location in question, jst use the path's device and inode number to uniquely identify them 23:15
TimToady: sure, just musings about future directions
nine TimToady: maybe Supply thinks the block is still running, because it only started listening to finish messages when it was already finished
cynx inode number on Windows? 23:16
cygx nine: sure
NTFS has an equivalent thing, and nqp supports it
_nadim Merry Christmas, or whatever you belive in or like, to all of you.
nine and FAT32?
FROGGS Merry Christmas _nadim :o) 23:17
cygx nine: FAT32 might indeed be a problem 23:18
FROGGS cygx: I don't favour solutions that ties us to filesystems 23:19
Skarsnik ms drop suport for win xp and 7 is soon to come, I don't think there is still a lot of fat32 stuff x
FROGGS Skarsnik: arn't usb sticks Fat32 usually?
nine they are 23:20
Skarsnik oh yeah... that
FROGGS and what if the repo is located on a samba share?
dalek c: 381bd11 | skids++ | doc/Language/control.pod:
Flesh out for loop docs a bit
cygx whatif it's located somewhere you don'T have write access?
FROGGS then you can install
I guess 23:21
and also cant precomp
flussence okay I went and looked up where STAT_PLATFORM_foo values come from, it's libuv 23:22
nine cygx: you ought to be able to write somewhere
TimToady
.oO(compile to memory)
flussence their stuff makes no mention of ntfs/fat32 specifics, so I gave up looking 23:23
cygx I'm not convinced central storage is the right things to do (additional complexity, garbage collecting the store, ....)
but at least i principle, it could be made to work
*in
jdv79 so is the precomp stuff considered an official part of the release? 23:26
nine Sure, it's programming...it's usually just a matter of time, effort and patience (kudos to anyone catching the Babylon 5 reference there :)
jdv79 as in could it change "under the hood" in 6.c or is that 6.d
flussence jdv79: it's going in 2015.12, but it's not part of 6.c
jdv79 stuff like moving file locations and having readable names and such
cygx but then, creating a .precomp directory somewhere just because you used -I also is somewhat sketchy
skids jdv79: I would assume only to the extent of what is tested in roast 23:27
jdv79 oh good cause not much is:)
TEttinger so what happens after 6.z ? 6.alpha ? 6.aa ?
skids By then everyone wil have gotten used to unicode
Skarsnik the world end
cygx TEttinger: unicode's the limit ;)
23:27 kaare_ left
TimToady m: say v6.z cmp v6.1 23:27
AlexDaniel TEttinger: hold on, isn't it supposed to take some time between .c and .z?
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«Less␤»
flussence after 6.z people start getting angry that the language that's supposed to last a century has gone through 25 changes already
TimToady so we've just put off having version 6.6.6 for 25 years or so 23:28
ZoffixWin :P
TEttinger AlexDaniel: isn't perl 6 intended to last like 100 years?
Theophane :D
AlexDaniel TEttinger: yea, but first it has to last at least 25 :)
flussence perl 5's only used a dozen or so major version numbers in the past while, I think we're safe 23:29
RabidGravy I only care if it lasts ~30
geekosaur keep in mind that it's only going to last 100 years if it continues to evolve
AlexDaniel RabidGravy: hey, think about your kids! 23:30
geekosaur humans are notoriously bad at predicting the future, after all >.>
RabidGravy infact maybe only ~13 (until I retire)
AlexDaniel, no kids
23:30 khw left, virtualsue joined
nine cygx: -I makes most sense for development where you usually have write permission 23:30
23:31 llfourn joined
AlexDaniel geekosaur: not if we implement time travel in Perl 6! :) 23:31
Theophane :D
23:33 biggy left
dalek c: 1d0000d | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
show of with Hyper Operators
 23:33
c: e4624b9 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/ (2 files):
Merge remote-tracking branch 'upstream/master'
c: 047a3cf | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #267 from gfldex/master

show of with Hyper Operators
flussence
.oO( the worst-case scenario is someone invents brain-uploading, and we'll end up being unwilling maintenance programmers trying to keep 6.c code working in 2115 )
AlexDaniel flussence: we in 2115. You are rather optimistic 23:34
nine Time for need. Good night all!
for bed
flussence o/
jdv79 later
cygx flussence: sorry, but we'll likely be dead when that becomes a reality 23:35
23:35 llfourn left
cygx it's in fact one of the more plausible sci-fi technologies 23:35
jdv79 not if ray kurzweil is right
cygx in contrast to, say, FTL travel
jdv79 iirc he believes we'll achive immmoratily before he _would have_ died 23:36
23:36 kjs_ left
cygx in the not-too-distant future (relatively speaking), it might be possible to fork a brain, so to speak 23:38
pdcawley Hmm... what does 'Unknown QAST node type NQPMu' mean?
jdv79 my guess is "a serious problem"
AlexDaniel cygx: yeah, would be great to use my right to fork in case of some people. 23:39
23:39 BenGoldberg left 23:40 cognominal left, BenGoldberg joined
AlexDaniel pdcawley: well, just another LTA error, I guess. 23:40
pdcawley LTA?
AlexDaniel pdcawley: report it if possible :)
pdcawley: Less Than Awesome
pdcawley AlexDaniel: Ah. 23:41
Let's see if I can reduce it first.
Hmm... I think it might be me just making shit up and expecting the computer to understand it. 23:42
map { :w<$^w>, :h<$^h> } (1,2), (2,3), ... is all kinds of wrong isn't it? 23:43
AlexDaniel pdcawley: basically, this error message is not wrong, possibly. But it is definitely less than awesome because someone ended up asking what it means here. That kind of stuff usually comes up when something weird happens internally.
flussence needs a comma after the } in any case 23:44
23:44 bpmedley_ left
flussence m: map { :w<$^w>, :h<$^h> } (1,2), (2,3) 23:44
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling /tmp/LBal7cIYwE␤Missing comma after block argument to map␤at /tmp/LBal7cIYwE:1␤------> 3map { :w<$^w>, :h<$^h> }7⏏5 (1,2), (2,3)␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤»
pdcawley flussence: It actually _does_ in the code that caused the error.
23:44 AndyDee joined
flussence hrm 23:44
m: map { :w<$^w>, :h<$^h> }, (1,2), (2,3)
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«Cannot call map(Hash, List, List); none of these signatures match:␤ (&code, + is raw)␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/TQaXGrVWjH line 1␤␤»
23:45 BenGoldberg left, BenGoldberg_ joined
pdcawley m: map { :w<$^w> :h<$^h> }, (1,2), (3,4) 23:45
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
pdcawley grins... that's my psychotic bit of code :) 23:46
flussence m: dd map { :{ :$^w, :$^h } }, (1,2), (2,3)
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«Too few positionals passed; expected 2 arguments but got 0␤ in block at /tmp/RAcxf7lpuS line 1␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/RAcxf7lpuS line 1␤␤»
TimToady m: map { ; :w<$^w> :h<$^h> }, (1,2), (3,4) 23:48
camelia ( no output )
TimToady m: say { :w<$^w> :h<$^h> }
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
TimToady m: say { :w<$^w,> :h<$^h> }
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
23:49 Ben_Goldberg joined
TimToady m: say { :w<foo> :h<bar> } 23:49
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
TimToady m: say { :w<foo> }
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«w => foo␤»
TimToady m: say { :w<foo>, :h<bar> }
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«h => bar, w => foo␤»
cygx m: { :w :h<42> }
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
AlexDaniel m: say (:w<foo> :h<bar>)
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
diakopter thar's a bug
TimToady yah
diakopter can you golf it any more? XD 23:50
AlexDaniel m: (:w :h<x>)
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
diakopter <kidding>
cygx m: (:w :h<42>)
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unknown QAST node type NQPMu␤»
23:50 BenGoldberg_ left
Skarsnik m: (:w :h) 23:50
camelia ( no output )
cygx no cigar .p
:p
jdv79 a comma isn't required there?
diakopter it means the Actions is getting an empty capture and not handling the absence
AlexDaniel jdv79: yeah, comma is not required to cause this error :D 23:51
diakopter TimToady can fix it XD XD
AlexDaniel m: say (:x :y :z)
camelia rakudo-moar 9cab51: OUTPUT«(x => True y => 1 z => 1)␤»
diakopter I don't have a dev env handy or else I would
RabidGravy only two more modules to fix now
AlexDaniel RabidGravy++ 23:52
Skarsnik :)
why y and z are 1 and not True too ?
23:53 AndyDee left
RabidGravy I call bug on that 23:53
AlexDaniel anybody going to fix that right away or should it be submitted?
23:54 rurban joined
RabidGravy I'd RT 23:54
TimToady go ahead and submit it, not clear how quick the fix would be
23:54 krshn joined 23:55 firstdayonthejob left
leont was just going to add a readme, and now he's been hacking on that project for almost two hours and still doesn't have a readme yet :-p 23:55
AlexDaniel done
RabidGravy leont "echo 'Stuff' >README.md" ;-) 23:56

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