»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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Hotkeys .trans sure has some weird behaviour 00:03
m: say "a123b12332c".trans(<23> => <t>); say "a123b12332c".trans(<23 a> => <t a>); 00:04
camelia rakudo-moar c322e1: OUTPUT«a1ttb1ttttc␤a1tb1t32c␤»
Hotkeys it can replace matched strings but only if the match array has > 1 elems?
my matched strings I mean more than a single character 00:05
s/my/by/
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unmatched} probably some hysterical raisings to do with perl 5's tr/// that only does single-char replacements. 00:10
rasins too
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konobi lo 00:19
yoleaux 5 Aug 2016 20:04Z <pmurias> konobi: do you have any ideas what (program):1755 might refer to in a profile I'm getting from v8?
unmatched} hel 00:20
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TEttinger unicode request: curse tablet emoji www.qwantz.com/index.php?comic=2866 00:41
like a whole emoji that describes a request of a higher (or lower) power to have your enemy suffer in incredibly detailed ways. probably a whole supplementary plane, you could go nuts 00:42
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dalek c: 97a01da | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/io.pod6:
make examples compile
 01:16
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dalek c: 1606ce2 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6:
make examples compile, fix broken examples
 02:10
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j75 Why does this work as a one liner ls | perl6 -e 'for (lines) { say $_ }' but ls | perl6 -e 'for lines { say $_ }' doesn't work? Why is it necessary to put lines in parentheses? 03:46
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gfldex m: sub f(&c){}; f {}; for f {} {}; 03:50
j75: ^^^ do you see the problem? 03:51
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gfldex m: .say for lines; 03:51
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gfldex and this is how you solve this problem 03:52
j75 .say for lines works but why does that not require (lines)
@gfldex not sure I fully follow
gfldex because that form wont have a block as a 2nd "parameter" to for
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Type check failed in binding to &c; expected Callable but got Hash (${})␤ in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
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j75 but it's ok to call for @array ? 03:53
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gfldex subscripts are not separated by a space, so that case is fine 03:53
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gfldex m: my @a; for @a{1} {}; 03:54
camelia ( no output )
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j75 gfldex so what exactly does the () around lines do ? when called for (lines) { } 03:56
gfldex m: for lines() { .say }
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Céad slán ag sléibhte maorga Chontae Dhún na nGall␤Agus dhá chéad slán ag an Eireagal ard ina stua os cionn caor is coll;␤Nuair a ghluais mise thart le Loch Dhún Lúich’ go ciúin sa ghleann ina luí␤I mo dhiaidh bhí gleanntáin ghlas’ G…»
gfldex it makes your intend clear not to call lines with a block as it's first parameter
j75 for lines() { .say } makes it clearer what's going on. is lines a sequence? 03:59
gfldex appreciate your help
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gfldex m: say lines().^name; 03:59
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Seq␤»
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MasterDuke is there a way to create a single item list literal with angle quotes? 04:03
m: <abc>.WHAT.say; <a b c>.WHAT.say; < abc >.WHAT.say
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«(Str)␤(List)␤(Str)␤»
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MasterDuke i know the first form will always be a Str, but is there some other way to do it? 04:05
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MasterDuke m: ['abc'].WHAT.say 04:05
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«(Array)␤»
MasterDuke that works, but is there a way without having to use both quotes and brackets 04:07
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gfldex m: <abc>.Array.^name.say 04:28
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Array␤»
gfldex m: my @a = <abc>; @a.^name.say;
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«Array␤»
gfldex MasterDuke: depends on where you want to use it 04:29
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gfldex m: say ¬10; 05:43
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 ¬10;␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5¬10;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ s…»
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gfldex m: say ∨10; 05:43
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Argument to "say" seems to be malformed␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say7⏏5 ∨10;␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 7⏏5∨10;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ …»
gfldex m: say 8∨10;
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Bogus postfix␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say 87⏏5∨10;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ postfix␤ statement end␤ statement modifier␤ sta…»
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mr-foobar is there a thread pool abstraction library ? 06:28
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timotimo what do you mean "abstraction library"? 06:30
there is a thread pool
what do you need abstracted about it?
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timotimo maybe it'd be a good start to read up on concurrency in perl6 and then see if the question about a thread pool abstraction library still stands 06:35
docs.perl6.org/language/concurrency
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j75 is the an array method similar to select in ruby? 07:34
timotimo i didn't know arrays had a method named "an"? 07:35
brrt j75: i think (not a ruby guy) we call that rep 07:36
grep
j75 ruby has a select method for arrays does perl have something similar?
brrt grep i think it what I am looking for thanks!
brrt yw :-)
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j75 is there a method that combines grep and map? or do i have to use grep them map ? 07:58
nine use grep then map 08:00
It makes your code easier to follow anyway
j75 nine, thanks thought it'd be a little more efficient if i could do them at the same time rather than iterate a second time 08:01
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nine j75: never ever try to guess at the efficiency of your code. Always benchmark. In this case your error is in assuming that the chained .grep(...).map(...) will iterate twice, which it won't. 08:03
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j75 nine, great to know! Thanks for the clear explanation 08:04
nine j75: both grep and map will actually just return an iterator. The real work happens once you ask for values (e.g. by assigning the result to an array). The assignment will ask map for the next value which in turn will ask grep for the next value. One by one. 08:06
That said, if you really, really insist on doing everything in the map, you can use loop control like next and last in the map, too. 08:07
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j75 Understood, thanks again! 08:08
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El_Che morning 08:17
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gregf_ j75: [*1..10].select(&:even?) == [1..10].grep(* %% 2 ) 08:32
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dalek c: 3bcbc19 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/unicode_entry.pod6:
show how to use digraphs (and extend them) in GNU Screen
 09:37
gfldex how to do font linking on windows. This works quite well. I linked GNU unifont to FreeMono to get pretty much all possible glyphs. msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/goglobal/bb688134.aspx 09:42
TEttinger gfldex, interesting 09:52
there's a unifont upper too
gfldex can you read this: Ⓟⓔⓡⓛ ⑥ ? 09:59
timotimo yeah
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TEttinger yeah, I default to unifont in IRC 10:04
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lambd0x Hi fellas! 10:17
unmatched} Just fellas? :)
lambd0x unmatched}: :P
How you're doing? 10:18
unmatched} Just woke up and hung over.
lambd0x unmatched}: too.
unmatched} m: say 'test' 10:20
camelia rakudo-moar 9bfbab: OUTPUT«test␤»
unmatched} s: &say, \('test')
SourceBaby unmatched}, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/9bfb...ors.pm#L22
unmatched} \o/ it's alive 10:21
timotimo SourceBaby: source 10:22
SourceBaby timotimo, See: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-sourceable
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lambd0x finally got my little code running for multiplying matrixes after reading both from a file. \o/ 10:34
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lambd0x guys is there a better way to the same: bpaste.net/show/6194ad04de36 10:34
?
timotimo is the code for first matrix the same code as for second matrix? itlooks that way 10:35
just using @B instead of @A
nine lambd0x: it could probably be a lot faster if you used native types. Assuming you can get away with it? 10:36
gregf_ implement a function that takes and presents a result of a x b where ,b are square matrices of order n
lambd0x nine: haven't seen them, where could I learn about it?
AlexDaniel committable6: HEAD bpaste.net/raw/6194ad04de36
committable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL. 10:37
AlexDaniel, ¦«HEAD»: Cannot pop from an empty Array␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/z2wK0MsS7J line 4␤␤Actually thrown at:␤ in block <unit> at /tmp/z2wK0MsS7J line 4␤ «exit code = 1»
unmatched} lambd0x: the most obvious thing is to save matrix reading code in a function and shorten your program by like half :)
timotimo so why not either make it a function, or just put a loop around the thing
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lambd0x unmatched}: will try that. 10:38
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unmatched} lambd0x: what's the input file? 10:41
gregf_ wow, thats handy @arr[ind1; ind2] = <whatever> 10:42
lambd0x unmatched}: something like this: bpaste.net/show/63c391aa39e7 .It's created by another code of mine that generates random order matrixes (both will always have the same order) 10:44
unmatched} And always two matrices? Looks like a fun Grammar excersise there :) 10:48
lambd0x unmatched}: In this case I limited it to be yes. Because I wasn't sure how to do it at first. After I get it nice maybe I'll try augmenting the amount of matrixes :P 10:50
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AlexDaniel MasterDuke: alright, it's time to make it possible to set STDIN of all our bots 10:51
unmatched} lambd0x: and if your other script can change the format of the files, I think it'd be easier to avoid specifying the length and instead specify a separator between matrices. 10:55
lambd0x unmatched}: one thing a time. But true :) 10:57
unmatched} :)
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lambd0x wow, better indeed not to work specifying sizes haahah things get more clean and sweet :P 11:11
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lambd0x here's a somewhat improved version of my earlier code: bpaste.net/show/a3b870198815 11:12
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stmuk_ does YAPC slides 11:16
lambd0x something else inprovable in my script guys? 11:19
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timotimo no need for $file.get.words to have parenthesis 11:21
stmuk_ Perl v6.0.0 required--this is only v5.22.1 11:23
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stmuk_ I assume perl 5 needs fixing if we aren't using 6.0.0? 11:23
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lambd0x timotimo: ok 11:24
timotimo you can use the value of the outer for loop instead of manually incrementing $i 11:25
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dalek c: 8f8e9b5 | Altai-man++ | doc/Language/objects.pod6:
Index BUILDALL
 11:27
lambd0x timotimo: I don't know how to do this. Was trying it earlier eheh 11:30
lambd0x: have a lot to learn in perl6. It's fun. 11:31
timotimo for ^$o -> $i { ... }
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lambd0x timotimo: thanks. 11:43
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bazzaar \o perl6 12:20
unmatched} \o
bazzaar .oO I am wondering why any Perl 6 introduction course would not use the excellent Perl6 Introduction by Naoum Hankache as it's backbone ? 12:22
unmatched} :/ 12:23
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unmatched} benchable: sleep 60*10 12:25
benchable unmatched}: ¦«sleep»:Cannot find this revision
[Coke] bazzaar: is there a course in particular you think should have done that?
unmatched} committable6: HEAD sleep 60*10
committable6: HEAD say 'meow'
committable6 unmatched}, ¦«HEAD»: «timed out after 10 seconds, output»: «exit signal = SIGHUP (1)» 12:26
unmatched}, ¦«HEAD»: meow
bazzaar Having a themed set of code problems for users to tackle, giving the users 5-10mins breaks to research the appropriate section of Nauom's tutorial, has got to be the right approach, hasn't it?'s tutorial 12:27
unmatched} wouldn't want to attend such a course.
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mst unmatched}: hrm? 12:28
why wouldn't reverse engineering slides and materials and treating perl6intro as course notes work? 12:29
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bazzaar [Coke] ... yes ....?,?@ 12:29
unmatched} 'cause I can just do it at home, at my leasure, without having to race for the 5-10min mark. I can equally go through codeeval.com's problems using perl6intro as course notes 12:30
I'd expect the course to teach me something and the 5-10min window is where I try to apply my new knowledge to build something
[Coke] bazzaar: ok, which one are you thinking of that didn't do that? 12:31
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bazzaar unmatched}: yes I know that anyone could do that, but when I look for a video on Perl6 introduction to work through, in a structured way, with some code problems that tie together, then I don't get that, I get something else 12:34
[Coke] bazzaar: I don't think anyone is making a coherent set of videos for that sort of thing, no.
mst bazzaar: oh, you want a *video*, not a course?
you never said that
[Coke] mst: does anyone other than gabor do that regularly on the p5 side? 12:35
mst not really. I do wish we had somebody who could actually write working perl doing videos, but I've not managed to convince anybody yet 12:36
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bazzaar [Coke]: I don't want to point the finger, what I want is the fabulous product that is perl6, to be marketed and promoted in the best possible way 12:36
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[Coke] bazzaar: ok. you should lead with that, then. :) 12:36
also, please find us a marketer. :) 12:37
perlpilot bazzaar: wanting that makes it partly your responsibility :P
mst bazzaar: so, start trying to make a video from perl6intro.com and let people help
[Coke] notes down one request for video learnin'.
mst [Coke]: you know TPF has like an entire marketing team, right? just only liz and wendy seem to ever talk to them
unmatched} bazzaar: well, I take it it's an offer then? We do have a marketing repo in dire need of contribution: github.com/perl6/marketing/ 12:38
unmatched} tries to imagine storing videos in a github repo :o
[Coke] mst: no, I had no idea.
mst: let me downgrade to "very little idea" 12:39
mst [Coke]: mdk gives talks every couple years reminding people they exist
but without the community saying they want stuff done
TPF's treasurer (Dan Wright) will never allocate an actual budget for it
[Coke] mst: I have no way to get to the YAPCs these days. :|
mst and no access to youtube? :) 12:40
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bazzaar O'Reilly make the video's, the perl6 community say 'who / what' should be the official approach / communicators, the perl6 code isn't being left to chance, why should it's marketing 12:40
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mst ... 12:40
bazzaar: that's not how free software works
unless you're planning to personally pay O'Reilly to do that
[Coke] bazzaar: I think you misunderstand perl 6 and tpf's relationship with ORA.
mst because they really don't care much about perl
they're a conference company now
perl6's code is handled by volunteers. so will its marketing. 12:41
DrForr *cough* www.safaribooksonline.com/library/...491968321/
unmatched} :)
mst wonders why people are always insistant that marketing should be magically done by other people
even though they know that code doesn't get written unless somebody writes it 12:42
I wonder if this is the dilbert principle thingy in reverse
"I hear mauve gets the most pageviews"
[Coke] has found it's much easier to find good developers willing to donate their time than it is to find good marketers.
unmatched} lol
[Coke] bazzaar: anyway, yes, "we suck at marketing" is our slogan, so we get it. Constructive suggestions welcomed on how to improve the situation. 12:43
mst [Coke]: well, mdk tries, but then TPF won't let him have any money to market *with*
unmatched} Stopping saying "we suck at marketing" would be the good first step :)
[Coke] unmatched}: I tOLD YOU we WER Ebad at THIS OK!?
bazzaar I am not criticising the open source effort, that is not my point. The best perl6 video's (sound and vision) are the ones newcomers will be drawn to. 12:44
[Coke] mst: so there's half a dozen people on an unfunded committee?
bazzaar: ok. so next step: who is going to make and publish and market those videos?
bazzaar they need to be effective products
unmatched} heh 12:45
DrForr Good quality perl 6 videos will be good? Who knew?...
[Coke] mst: frustrating! (glad i'm on the one that gets some cash occasionally!)
mst [Coke]: pretty much. he manages to get money for print materials but generally has to ask on a per-print-run basis because TPF won't give them a budget
yeah, well, welcome to the world according to Dan Wright, where nobody else is allowed to decide things ever ;)
[Coke] mst: it's kind of how we do grants. we never know how much money we have, we have to ask at the end of each round what we can afford to fund.
... as I understand it. 12:46
that's actually one level above my pay grade, which I've been fine to keep there.
mst yeah, thing is, nobody except me appears to think this is worth complaining about, and if it's -only- me, it's easy to dismiss as 'mst is being an ass again' 12:47
so we continue to not actually have any way to get to functional marketing
and there's basically nothing I can do about it if nobody else will bother speaking up :(
unmatched} bazzaar: IMO that's too expensive to be the main focus of Perl 6 marketing. And tossing around several hundreds of gigs of raw data also makes collaboration by volunteers difficult. 12:48
DrForr That's why I've said 'fuck it' and started doing stuff. It's *not hard* to get in to these conferences, hell, if *I* cn. 12:49
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bazzaar I am speaking up, I am going out on a limb just by voicing my thoughts on this 12:49
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unmatched} bazzaar: for comparison, the last 3.5 minute video I shot at work took two hours to shoot (included decisions on how it should be shot), took me about 30 minutes to edit, with the intro theme already done, and my repo for that job is 2.55GB 12:50
mst bazzaar: you're going out on a limb telling other people what to do, and refusing to help
bazzaar: that's not how open source works
unmatched}: hey, do youhave a good canonical example of perl6's errors being awesome? I'm trying to wow a rust dev 12:51
[Coke] m: my Rag $a;
camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5===␤Type 'Rag' is not declared. Did you mean any of these?␤ Rat␤ Bag␤␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my Rag7⏏5 $a;␤Malformed my␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my7⏏5 Rag $a;␤␤»
unmatched} mst: funny that you mention, I kind thought rust's new error thing they announced was kinda awesome... awesomer than maybe even Perl 6 :) 12:52
bazzaar all I'm saying is, if perl6 related talks/ tutorials like those at Oscon are being professionally recorded, then it is imperative that there is coordinatination within the opensource community about how the product should be
unmatched} bazzaar: you got cut off after "the product should be"
[Coke] mst: mailed mdk 12:53
er, mk, whatever his MI is.
mst [Coke]: note if I've oversold what's doable here that's entirely my fault
I've been spending so long just trying to get people to talk to him in the first place that I may've garbled what is/isn't doable 12:54
bazzaar mst: I havn't refused to help, I have helped in a minor way previously bringing to light some bugs in the perl6 grammar and DBIish
mst I hope, under the circumstances, if that's the case, you'll forgive me
unmatched} We want a giant billboard! :D
mst bazzaar: training courses don't generally get recorded because the trainers need to get paid, sadly 12:55
[Coke] mst: eh, just pinging him to start a conversation, no worries.
DrForr bazzaar: You have control of your own presentation and style, that's it. 12:56
mst bazzaar: ok, but "we need to do X" type things don't generally help. "I think we should do X, and here's how I propose to start making that happen" helps
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mst bazzaar: start doing stuff and then try and rope other people in 12:56
pmurias speaking of rust errors, blog.rust-lang.org/2016/08/10/Shap...-come.html is kindof interesting 12:57
unmatched} bazzaar: in other words, we don't suffer from lack of ideas :) It's the peoplehours and finances that are the limiting factors
mst yes, that's what led to me asking
unmatched}: anyway, got a good example?
AlexDaniel
.oO( rope! That's what we are good at )
unmatched} m: say Any eq $x
camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$x' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3say Any eq 7⏏5$x␤»
unmatched} m: say Any eq 'x'
camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value of type Any in string context.␤Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful. in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤False␤»
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unmatched} mst: nothing amazing comes to mind. 12:58
markk [Coke]: figured I'd just pop in here rather than keep it to email
The people I have worked with in the Perl6 community have generally been Liz and Wendy 12:59
And one or two others at conferences
AlexDaniel mst: perhaps try searching for “did you mean” in rakudo?
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mst pmurias: possibly also of interest - 13:00
13:59 <nox> Most of our stuff comes from Elm, especially the layout for --explain with actual English sentences and whatnot.
13:59 <nox> elm-lang.org/blog/compiler-errors-for-humans
markk As mst pointed out the biggest block at the moment is that I have to present a case for funds each time. Technically I spend and they refund me, however I think I am still owed on the last print run (perl 6 and perl 5 stickerts and Perl 6 pamphlets) and I didn't get refunded for FLOSS yet
Some of this is my fault for not aggressively chasing it, Dan is a volunteer as well
jnthn mst: The ones that do Leavensh^WLeven^WLichtenstein^Wedit distance to suggest what you maybe meant are kinda nice
m: sai 42 13:01
camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Undeclared routine:␤ sai used at line 1. Did you mean 'say'?␤␤»
markk As for producing videos, again possible. What you need to work out is what you are trying to achieve
jnthn m: class A { has $!x; method m() { $x } }
camelia rakudo-moar 76be77: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '$x' is not declared. Did you mean '$!x'?␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3class A { has $!x; method m() { 7⏏5$x } }␤»
[Coke] ok. I mean, I trust liz and wendy with our marketing more than any of the other people that just do dev. :)
markk Do you want to promote Perl 6 or teach people how to use it - and don't say both. The issue with marketing thus far is that everyone wants to do it all
mst I did mention that liz and wendy and mdk had been talking 13:02
[Coke] markk: Bot---- oh. :)
markk You need to have one goal for the whole campaign or you get the current mess which I have trouble solving without funds
mst shakes [Coke] :P
[Coke] also, liz++ wendy++
DrForr bazzaar: I'm one of two people that's presenting Perl 6 in conjunction with OSCON. I asked people what I should talk about, and the response I got meant I basically wrote my own material, because of being Warnocked.
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markk mst: I read the backlog that [Coke] sent me :) 13:02
mst ah good
[Coke] markk: I don't know enough about marketing to know which of those two choices is better. 13:03
markk So what are you hoping to achieve?
perlpilot [Coke]: teaching people how to use Perl 6 would be best IMGO
er, IMHO
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[Coke] I would imagine we can teach people how to perl 6 with our current resources, though. 13:03
G... Godlike? ;)
markk And teaching people may not get you more eyes looking at it 13:04
[Coke] so, see, even perlpilot and I cannot agree. :)
perlpilot yeah, that's it ;)
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DrForr And if I felt I was required to ask a committee of open source people to dictate my course content, I would ... have done nothing. 13:04
El_Che DrForr: you rebel
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unmatched} I'm hoping to achieve: we straighten out the whole "Name Issue". That is: people thinking Perl 6 is just some mild improvement over some old language that was popular in the 90s 13:04
mst JFDI + -Ofun don't always produce the most co-ordinated results but they sure as heck produce results
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unmatched} And I don't mean renaming anything, but getting people to know that Perl 6 is a new language. And it's the next "cutting edge" or whatever over the 25 year old Pythons and their kin 13:05
Once they know Perl 6 is something new and shiny and not a minor upgrade to an old language, I don't think we'll have trouble teaching people Perl 6. 13:06
markk Doesn't help when Larry calls it a teenager, it isn't. It is 8 months old, just had a 15 year pregnancy was all
unmatched} It's not uncommon that someone comments with "20 years too late, Perl 6" on my Perl 6 languages and that's entirely a matter of ignorance and that's what I'd aim the marketing efforts to change. 13:07
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unmatched} *my Perl 6 articles 13:07
AlexDaniel markk: O_O
markk unmatched}: I think you might be devaluing people a little, it isn't new and shiny they go for at all, it is the missing out on the next big thing - Python and Javascript are neither new or shiny
mst both postmodern *and* postmature
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DrForr bazzaar: On the other hand, if you're interested in proposing talks to OSCON, FOSDEM, SXSW &c I can give you a hand writing your roposals. 13:07
AlexDaniel
.oO( ropeosals )
 13:08
nine Speaking of budgets: we're now at 4500 Euros that my company did not contribute, because neither TPF, nor the YAPC Europe foundation seem to be capable of writing invoices which is the only thing I need in return for my 500 Euros / month budget.
El_Che imho, one of DrForr's project would be a nice addition for the sexyness of perl6. The atom beautifier packages uses perltidy for reformatting perl5 and perl6, what does not really work for perl6. With madcapjake perlfe's and azawawi's linter, perl6 programming on atom looks ok
nine [Coke]: ^^^
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markk The aim is not to educate people, or change their minds, marketing will not do that for you. You have to tell them something, or repeat something, you have to make them want the thing, not give them a wiki article 13:09
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markk It's not about showing them, it is about moving them into a position where they want it 13:09
DrForr El_Che: I'm getting whitespace handled this weekend.
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bazzaar DrForr: It is not for me to criticise an individuals efforts, my original question, was why when we have an excellent web tutorial, why was isn't it being used in the media products that newcomers will be drawn too 13:09
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markk It is why you have one goal and all your targetting should be towards making that goal happen 13:10
perlpilot markk: but telling them things without also having a way for them to easily learn and use Perl 6 seems a little useless to me. It ends up with frustrated potential users.
markk Coke is over a hundred and one of its marketing points is that it is a 'fresh taste'
perlpilot "Perl 6 looks cool, but I can't figure out how to do anything without #perl6" 13:11
markk perlpilot: I do not disagree
perlpilot: but we were discussing marketing and what you are trying to achieve by it
perlpilot: if you don't have the tools to support people learning then that's a different focus
El_Che DrForr: I volunteer to at least have a go for patch to atom-beautifier when you think it's ok. Not reaaly a knowledgable at JS, but I had a look yesterday and the patch seems trivial (I wrote a small one to activiate for perl6fe as it's seen by atom as a different grammar than perl6) 13:12
markk hence my question about what you are trying to achieve
unmatched} markk: what if there's nothing to be missing out on? I mean, Perl 6 doesn't have a niche, it's also slow and can be frustratingly buggy. 13:13
perlpilot A virtuous cycle of continual converts ;)
DrForr bazzaar: Well, find someone that does good voiceovers and write a script? I don't have a great voice, otherwise I'd volunteer.
markk If we want shiny videos to educate then we should focus on that but that shouldn't be confused with getting people to look at them as those are not the same
unmatched}: are you saying it has no usp whatsoever that I might as well use Perl5 or Python or JS? 13:14
[Coke] markk: ... your line about Coke REALLY confused me for about 10 seconds. :) 13:15
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markk Because I can do the flippant taglines 'perl6: just like every other language but slower and likely to crash' - not a great usp 13:15
[Coke] nine, markk: markk, you are closer to the finance than I am, can you ping someone about nine's comment there?
markk [Coke]: oops, yeah sorry
DrForr Rust, Go and Swift users could ask the same question of perl6, python, js/node as well. 13:16
mst nine: bet EPO could do it
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nine This is so frustrating. I walked to management, asked for 500€/month for supporting free software and actually got it. Now wasting a lot of work time trying to find someone who can take the money seems excessive. 13:18
markk nine: email [email@hidden.address] with your offer and I will get you an invoice for the money by the end of the day - just need the ammount, the frequency and a business address for the invoice
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El_Che nine++ : wow 13:18
perlpilot markk++
markk Fuck it, give me the details in query with your email address and I will get it done now
nine++ btw
mst nine: this would be one of the reasons I arranged for EPO to exist 13:19
nine++
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unmatched} markk: I can't think of any. I like the language for many of its small things, like letting me avoid using brackets all over the place. Perl 6 doesn't have a great ecosystem. It's too slow for web apps. It's too buggy for me to recommend using it as a primary language *right now* for some large business up. All of this kinda leads to lack of volunteers and points to the question: how do we get more volunteers 13:19
to be interested in this language to make it faster and less buggy?
perlpilot There's not enough ++ for nine. (I'm overly enamored of Inline::Perl5 :)
markk Nine - EPO will use the money to fund Perl-QA, CPAN Testers (all their servers) - Strawberry Perl (servers and bandwidth) and anything else that sounds good - we got MetaCPAN their server sponsorship as well
nine markk: all sound like things that help us at work (maybe except for Strawberry), so I'd be completely ok with supporting them :) 13:20
unmatched} s/business up/business app/; # can't type today >_<
Community might be Perl 6's USP, but I suspect it'll change as we grow larger and it doesn't stop people going "ROFLMAO LOOK! They made a new regex syntax that's not compatible with anything!!!!" 13:22
DrForr FWIW Inline::Perl5 needs more publicity, at least as a transition solution from perl5. 13:23
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unmatched} Awesome concurency too. But all of the awesome bits are currently NIY, so it's hard to sell people on them, and points again to too few volunteers implementing things. 13:23
tadzik yep, it's a huge marketing thing
mst NIY?
oh, not implemented yet 13:24
jnthn Um, what exactly is not implemented yet?
"Implemented but has a bunch of rough edges" we have in abundance.
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unmatched} jnthn: all of the autothreading that's currently doesn';t autothread 13:24
mst unmatched}: yeah, this is why I'm slowly grinding towards being able to get at grammars in a way that makes me happy, and then I'm going to trick myself and other people into using perl6 via that
DrForr mst: So I need to finish up my ANTLR translator? :) 13:25
markk DrForr: that's an internal thing though and you talking about it at conferences works well
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unmatched} jnthn: at least I got that feel from Damian's concurrency talk. Every time he pointed out something awesome like hyper ops or feeds, he then went and said it's NIY 13:25
jnthn So there's a bunch of stuff that's both implemented and nice and he focused on a bunch of stuff that isn't? :P 13:26
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ugexe some feeds are implemented though 13:26
unmatched} ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
ugexe i still look forward to the double pointy feed 13:27
perlpilot ugexe: what would it do? 13:28
mst DrForr: I don't understand ANTLR at all, my favourite thing about grammars is that they actually sort of seem to make sense to me 13:29
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ugexe perlpilot: allows multiple sources to be used as a single source (maybe worded poorly) 13:31
`@a1 ==>> @a2 ==> map { say $_ }` instead of `map { say $_ }, flat (@a1, @a2)` 13:33
Woodi ugexe: (@a1, @a2) ==> map {.... } would be nice 13:34
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Woodi maybe even: my $f1 = Feed.new(@a0) ? 13:35