»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! Set by moritz on 22 December 2015. |
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tushar | I would like to add an element in an array at specific index. When I add the element, I don't want to replace the old element value with new rather I would like to shift the elements to the right. I hope that make sense. How can I achieve that? E.g. "Input --> my @a = [1,2,3]; --- add element at specific index and shift other elements on right -- @a = [1,4,2,3]" | 00:45 | |
timotimo | that's what splice is for | 00:47 | |
geekosaur | docs.perl6.org/type/Array#routine_splice | ||
timotimo | splice is really "at index i, remove n elements and replace them with this list: ..." | ||
so you'll just be removing 0 elements | |||
tushar | timotimo: I thought so.. Thanks.. | 00:48 | |
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dalek | href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 7b463a5 | (Angelo Compagnucci)++ | includes/menu-nav: doc.perl6.org not prominent enough * Documentation now point to docs.perl6.org * Added Resources pointing to /documentation/ Fixes: #48 |
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href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: dc08a96 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | includes/menu-nav: Merge pull request #56 from angeloc/issue_48 doc.perl6.org not prominent enough |
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BenGoldberg | m: my @a = 1..3; @a.splice 1, 0, 4; @a.say; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Two terms in a rowat <tmp>:1------> 3my @a = 1..3; @a.splice7⏏5 1, 0, 4; @a.say; expecting any of: infix infix stopper statement end statement modifi…» | ||
timotimo | ^- i am quite okay with that | ||
the perl6.org change, that is | |||
BenGoldberg | m: my @a = 1..3; @a.splice: 1, 0, 4; @a.say; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[1 4 2 3]» | ||
BenGoldberg | tushar, ^ | ||
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tushar | BenGoldberg: thanks. Still, I am not quite use to with the syntax without parenthesis. I just followed the syntax that shown in Perl6 doc. But it's good to know. | 00:57 | |
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tushar | m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice(2,0,4).say; | 00:58 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[]» | ||
tushar | m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice(2,0,4); @a; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:Useless use of @a in sink context (line 1)» | ||
tushar | m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice(2,0,4); @a.say; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[1 2 4 3]» | ||
tushar | Can I replace multiple values at the same time? | 01:00 | |
Meaning adding multiple values at multiple indexes of an array and shifting the existing values. All at the same time. I hope that make sense. | 01:02 | ||
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tushar | m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice([0..1],0,[4..5]); @a.say; | 01:03 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 87040 bytes» | ||
tushar | uhhh... Here is the output that I got while running above in REPL. Ouptut --> [1 2 4 5 3] | 01:04 | |
Looks like it took the last index i.e. 1 in and add new values after it. | 01:05 | ||
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tushar | @a; | 01:09 | |
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tushar | m: my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]]; @b.splice[0,0,[7..8]); @b.say; | 01:14 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Unable to parse expression in subscript; couldn't find final ']' at <tmp>:1------> 3 = [[1..3],[4..6]]; @b.splice[0,0,[7..8]7⏏5); @b.say; expecting any of: statement end …» | ||
tushar | m: my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]]; ; @b.splice(0,0,[[7..8]]); @b.say; | 01:15 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[7 8 [1 2 3] [4 5 6]]» | ||
tushar | In above, the array get flatten. I would like to get output like this -- [[7,8],[12,3],[4,5,6]]. How can avoid array flattening? | 01:16 | |
I hope I am clear enough | |||
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MasterDuke | m: my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]]; ; @b.splice(0,0,[[7..8],]); @b.say; | 01:18 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[[7 8] [1 2 3] [4 5 6]]» | ||
AlexDaniel | Haha. “Definitely there is no need to repeat that 4 four times.” – but apparently there is a need to repeat number 4 two times. // #125596 | 01:19 | |
synopsebot6 | Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=125596 | ||
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tushar | MasterDuke++ | 01:21 | |
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AlexDaniel | alright, I'm failing to find a bug report | 01:21 | |
my gut says that there was one | |||
MasterDuke | tushar: that's an example of the single argument rule in action | 01:22 | |
which i'm just creating an issue in the docs for now because it should be listed/searchable | |||
tushar | MasterDuke: can you be little more expressive? Can I adapt that for my work or is it an issue? | 01:23 | |
AlexDaniel | /o\ wtf | 01:24 | |
m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say max @a, :by(*.chars > *.chars) | |||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«bbbbb» | ||
AlexDaniel | m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say min @a, :by(*.chars > *.chars) | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«aaa» | ||
AlexDaniel | alright, yes? | ||
m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.max: :by(*.chars > *.chars) | |||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«cc» | ||
AlexDaniel | m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.min: :by(*.chars > *.chars) | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«aaa» | ||
AlexDaniel | ?? | ||
in other words, :by is just ignored | 01:25 | ||
I've seen that some time ago, can anybody remember a ticket title or something? | |||
MasterDuke | tushar: sure you can use that. is isn't really an issue, just something that people don't always realize at first | ||
AlexDaniel | by the way, it is even worse: | 01:26 | |
m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say sort @a, :by(*.chars > *.chars) | |||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Unexpected named argument 'by' passed in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1» | ||
MasterDuke | AlexDaniel: i've seen a similar ticket also | ||
rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=115758 | |||
AlexDaniel | if only bisectable was here… perhaps it worked some time ago | ||
tushar | MasterDuke: Thanks.. | 01:27 | |
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AlexDaniel | not a bug? Not funny | 01:28 | |
BenGoldberg | m: < aaa bbbbb cc >; @a.sort(:by(*.chars)).say; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Variable '@a' is not declaredat <tmp>:1------> 3< aaa bbbbb cc >; 7⏏5@a.sort(:by(*.chars)).say;» | ||
BenGoldberg | m: < aaa bbbbb cc >.sort(:by(*.chars)).say; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(aaa bbbbb cc)» | ||
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BenGoldberg | m: < aaa bbbbb cc >.sort(*.chars).say; | 01:29 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(cc aaa bbbbb)» | ||
bstamour | Quick question for anyone who can help me out. What does the line "use v6" actually do? | ||
Does it matter if I only run my scripts through a perl 6 interpreter? | |||
BenGoldberg | Nothing, except that it makes perl5 bail out. | ||
bstamour | Ah, so in case I accidentally fire it through the wrong program | 01:30 | |
Thank you | |||
BenGoldberg | Right. Many perl5 and perl6 modules end in .pm or .pl | ||
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bstamour | Makes sense. | 01:30 | |
AlexDaniel | it makes sense to use .pm6 and .p6 ;) | ||
BenGoldberg | The newest version of perl5 will automatically use the C-level exec() function to replace itself with perl6, if the first line starts with a # and contains 'perl6' somewhere in it. | 01:31 | |
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AlexDaniel | m: my @a = < aaaaa bbbbb cc >; say unique @a, :with(*.chars == *.chars) | 01:35 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(aaaaa cc)» | ||
AlexDaniel | /o\ | ||
so it is :by for some things and :with for others | |||
/o\ | 01:36 | ||
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AlexDaniel | my biggest problem with it however is this: | 01:36 | |
m: my @a = < aaaaa bbbbb cc >; say unique @a, :as(*.chars) | |||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(aaaaa cc)» | ||
AlexDaniel | unique has a very useful :as parameter | ||
yet nothing else has it, as far as I can see | 01:37 | ||
just imagine: @a.sort(as => *.chars) | |||
just imagine: @a.max(as => *.chars) | |||
very readable, no *.chars ><= *.chars crap | |||
I will open a few tickets for these. Feel free to start a holy war there. | 01:39 | ||
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AlexDaniel | MasterDuke: can you try clicking a “New ticket” button in RT? | 01:42 | |
I'm wondering if it is broken for everyone or just for me | 01:43 | ||
MasterDuke | AlexDaniel: blank page | ||
AlexDaniel | :( | ||
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[Coke] | broken here too. i'll ping the rt admins | 01:45 | |
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AlexDaniel | [Coke]: thank you | 01:49 | |
MasterDuke | m: sub foo($a where {* < 5 and * > 2}) {dd $a}; foo(6) | 01:55 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Int $a = 6» | ||
MasterDuke | m: sub foo($a where * < 5 and * > 2) {dd $a}; foo(6) | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Malformed parameterat <tmp>:1------> 3sub foo($a where * < 57⏏5 and * > 2) {dd $a}; foo(6) expecting any of: constraint infix infix stopper» | ||
MasterDuke | m: sub foo($a where {* < 5}) {dd $a}; foo(6) | 01:56 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *at <tmp>:1------> 3sub foo($a where {* < 5}7⏏5) …» | ||
MasterDuke | bug that the first one didn't give me the same error as the last? | ||
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AlexDaniel | MasterDuke: it is less than awesome | 02:01 | |
fwiw: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/5f91....nqp#L6034 | |||
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MasterDuke | thanks, hadn't found it yet | 02:03 | |
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dalek | c: c776b84 | MasterDuke17++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6: Fix typos and grammaros in Signature |
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BenGoldberg | m: constant μ = Mu; my μ $x = &say; dd $x; | 02:20 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Sub $x = sub say (| is raw) { #`(Sub|51498416) ... }» | ||
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[Coke] | the "new ticket" button was deliberately disabled following a big spam attack on the p5 queue. | 02:56 | |
(today) | |||
abuse prevention measures need to be put into place. (volunteers welcome, but I don't know what skill sets are needed0 | 02:57 | ||
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perlawhi1l | AlexDaniel: I brought up my concerns with sort about 5 months ago, but it never really went anywhere | 03:19 | |
I put up a gist here: gist.github.com/0racle/134921795a6...554492d824 | |||
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AlexDaniel | uhh! | 03:19 | |
perlawhi1l | the crux of the issue is that unique takes a named parameter, whereas most of these other methods take a code block | 03:20 | |
i feel it's not really consistent, and certainly not dwimmy | 03:22 | ||
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AlexDaniel | m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.max: :by(*.chars > *.chars) | 03:36 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«cc» | ||
AlexDaniel | m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.max: *.chars | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«bbbbb» | ||
AlexDaniel | m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.min: *.chars | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«cc» | ||
AlexDaniel | oh, alright | ||
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andrzejku | hello my friends x) | 06:38 | |
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perlawhi1l | hello | 06:48 | |
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andrzejku | perlawhirl, are you guy from whirlpool? | 06:49 | |
perlawhirl | nope. | ||
andrzejku | oh okay, your nickname suggest it | ||
perlawhirl | well.. i have an account, but i haven't been there in 10 years or so | ||
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moritz | \o | 07:10 | |
ufobat | morning perl6 :) | 07:11 | |
andrzejku | hello :) | 07:12 | |
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RabidGravy | boom! | 07:29 | |
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andrzejku | last days I tried to play with avr chips | 07:39 | |
and all failed :( | |||
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masak | good antenoon, #perl6 | 08:15 | |
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moritz | \o masak | 08:27 | |
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arnsholt | mst: I retract any previous statements I have made about OpenSSL. It's precision-engineered to drive people insane >.< | 08:34 | |
TEttinger | arnsholt, I believe it | ||
why does it have a heartbeat function anyway | 08:35 | ||
"madness" | |||
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zengargoyle | TEttinger: firewalls and session timeouts. | 08:43 | |
no traffic for X minutes, NAT session times out, remote sends data and fails, session lost. | 08:44 | ||
TEttinger | could that be resolved without exposing a buffer overflow vulnerability for much of the internet? :) | ||
zengargoyle | most probably | 08:46 | |
masak | ...nah :) | ||
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Woodi_ | hi #perl6 :) | 08:56 | |
arnsholt: if someone want simler cryptography would be enought to extract from OpenSSL number generators, algoritms and drop eg. network code, (always buggy) ASN.1, file formats ? | 08:59 | ||
...drop anything X.50X related ? | 09:00 | ||
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arnsholt | Woodi_: Probably | 09:12 | |
Of course, the X509 stuff and friends is a core part of SSL/TLS | |||
So you'll only get so far with just the crypto | |||
Woodi_ | arnsholt: I just want math parts :) equations, pluses minuses. rest is totally ecosystem... | 09:18 | |
but probably I know nothing about network security :) | |||
SSL/TLS is total foobar, it should be replaced | 09:21 | ||
fubar even :) | |||
zengargoyle | i tend to prefer vpn like solutions where possible. vpn or ipsec or wireguard between boxes. then it's sorta a no brainer, remote side IP is just at secure as talking to localhost. | 09:22 | |
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zengargoyle | Woodi_: if you just want crypto, maybe check www.wireguard.io/ ... it's a linux kernel module vpn/ipsec replacement based on pre-shared keys and "WireGuard uses state-of-the-art cryptography, like the Noise protocol framework, Curve25519, ChaCha20, Poly1305, BLAKE2, SipHash24, HKDF, and secure trusted constructions. It makes conservative and reasonable choices and has been reviewed by | 09:31 | |
cryptographers." | |||
dalek | c: 9008874 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6: correct spelling of possessive 'its' |
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Woodi_ | zengargoyle: would be nice to split that even more, extracting math and numbers calculations into more understendable form. vpns like systems shoould be everydays tools for businesses but as we know vpns was backdored long time ago (in OpenBSD) :) | 09:39 | |
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dalek | c: e5ddbfe | gfldex++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6: fix typo |
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Ulti | has anyone reported a borken OSX build? | 11:39 | |
noticing its since I updated to the latest XCode | |||
"Symbol not found: _clock_gettime" | |||
I can try and hunt down where this has moved to if no one is already checking it out | 11:40 | ||
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Ulti | full output gist.github.com/MattOates/45e87e3a...f396a56c01 | 11:44 | |
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moritz | I'm not aware of anybody chasing it down | 11:46 | |
Ulti | looks like its a problem for a lot of people over a tonne of projects for this version of XCode+OSX | 11:47 | |
OSX 10.11.6 XCode 8.0 | 11:48 | ||
the current solution online is update the whole of your OS :Z | 11:49 | ||
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moritz | does that make it OS Y? :-) | 12:10 | |
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El_Che | Ulti: be careful when upgrading the OS. The signature needed to downgrade is only valid a short period of time. | 12:16 | |
ios :) | |||
oh, I am too early? Give it a few years :) | |||
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[Coke] | I am on xcode 8.0 (8A218a) and have noticed no issues. | 12:43 | |
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bdmatatu | Is it possible to use nqp::sha1 (or is there a related nqp function) to compute the sha1 of bytes that are not valid UTF-8? | 12:51 | |
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gfldex | m: use nqp; say nqp::sha1("abc"); | 12:56 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«A9993E364706816ABA3E25717850C26C9CD0D89D» | ||
gfldex | bdmatatu: ^^^ possible but may be unwise | ||
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andrzejku | hey guys | 12:58 | |
why no-one tried to write llvm perl6 interpreter? | |||
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perlpilot | andrzejku: I think it's because llvm is more of a VM toolkit than a VM | 12:59 | |
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bdmatatu | gfldex: oh, too bad...nqp::sha1 is very fast, was hoping to use it as part of an hmac computation | 13:00 | |
gfldex | bdmatatu: you can test if you are on rakudo and if not provide a Perl 6 variant or load a module | 13:01 | |
bdmatatu: right now it's a little tricky to have automatic tests for not being on Rakudo tho (hence my unwise-remark) | 13:02 | ||
bdmatatu | gfldex: unfortunately it only seems to work for utf-8, so this makes it unsuitable for hmac (since it calls the hash twice, once with potentially invalid utf-8 bytes) | 13:03 | |
DrForr | bdmatatu: IIRC there's a Digest::HMAC, are you working with that? | ||
bdmatatu | I tried that, but was looking to improve performance. | ||
(of the hash part, not the hmac part) | 13:04 | ||
DrForr | Nice. | ||
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perlpilot | bdmatatu: I'd guess that the underlying sha1 implementation works on arbitrary octets and the only reason nqp::sha1 says anything about UTF-8 is because you have to feed it a str. Maybe someone could change it to be encoding agnostic? | 13:11 | |
hackedNODE | gfldex: why is it tricky? | 13:12 | |
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hackedNODE | m: $*PERL.compiler.name.say | 13:13 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«rakudo» | ||
hackedNODE | Oh, you mean at nqp level. Nevermind | ||
gfldex | hackedNODE: no i meant testing it against a non-Rakudo | 13:14 | |
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jnthn | fwiw, the nqp::sha1 op is built for the specific purpose of hashing source code for dependency management purposes, and isn't really intended to be exposed/used more widely. | 13:14 | |
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[Coke] adds that to the docs. | 13:22 | ||
dalek | c: 99a8666 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6: add example of type constraint on an optional argument |
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nine | 5~/win 13 | 13:37 | |
masak | m: sub infix:<~/win>($l, $r) { $l / $r }; say 5~/win 13 | 13:40 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«0.384615» | ||
masak | irssi window division :) | 13:41 | |
jnthn | m) | 13:44 | |
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andrzejku | hey should someone explain me | 13:47 | |
some details about nap | |||
nqp | |||
timotimo | OK, like what? | ||
andrzejku | nap is something similar to perl? | 13:48 | |
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andrzejku | nqp | 13:48 | |
timotimo | "not quite perl6" | ||
it's what we use to implement rakudo | 13:49 | ||
andrzejku | rakudo is perl6? | ||
timotimo | rakudo is our perl6 compiler | ||
andrzejku | okay | ||
so | |||
timotimo | there used to be other projects, but only rakudo remains in active development | ||
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andrzejku | why nqp was invented at all? | 13:50 | |
why just not to write perl6 interpreter | |||
in C or C++ | |||
whatever | |||
timotimo | rakudo started on Parrot. it would have been terrible to write rakudo completely in parrot's assembly-language | ||
andrzejku | and when the basic Perl6 things were implemented "they" will be used to implement standard library | 13:51 | |
timotimo | there's currently a project that writes a perl6 compiler in C++ | ||
andrzejku | ohh | 13:52 | |
timotimo, I am looking for it | |||
where can I find it? | |||
timotimo | good question | ||
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timotimo | github.com/Itay2805/Perl6-Native-Compiler | 13:52 | |
there it is | |||
oh, look at the first line of the readme | |||
i don't see a repo for a native nqp compiler, though | 13:53 | ||
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andrzejku | timotimo, sorry [kid] will be soon back | 13:58 | |
timotimo | i might be AFK when you return | ||
andrzejku | ok | ||
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hackedNODE | andrzejku: one of the benefits is the compiler is more accessible to Perl 6 *users* to hack on. nqp really has a feel of a Perl 6 module for a lot of things. The grammar that parses Perl 6 is pretty much the same grammar users of Perl 6 use, etc. Many parts of Rakudo would require knowledge of Perl 6 only to modify, and the end-goal is to as much as possible of Rakudo in Perl 6. | 14:08 | |
s: Hash, 'classify-list' | |||
SourceBaby | hackedNODE, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/5a3d...sh.pm#L309 | ||
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hackedNODE | andrzejku: ^ any Perl 6 user can fix a problem in that method. But if Rakudo were written in C, they would need to know C to do so. | 14:08 | |
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hackedNODE plugs perl6.party/post/Perl-6-is-written-in...-Perl-6 | 14:09 | ||
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hackedNODE | andrewalker: also: optimizations. It's easier to optimize a subset than a huge language. | 14:11 | |
timotimo | on top of that, nqp has a few limitations that make optimization a whole lot more feasible | 14:12 | |
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andrzejku | hackedNODE, I don't think to let users modify just for fun | 14:15 | |
is good idea | |||
it is better if they write libs which extend language | |||
timotimo | this isn't really about "modify perl6 for fun", it's about "please help us with core development" | 14:16 | |
skids | m: class A { has $!a = Channel.new; sub s($a) { start { my $r = 42; react { whenever $a { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note; LAST { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note } } } } }; has $!t = s($!a); method f { $!a.send(0) }; method DESTROY {$!a.close} }; use nqp; A.new.f; for 0..5 {sleep 0.1; nqp::force_gc; Rat.new}; # ok | 14:17 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«$r == 42 Scalar|140475831250104$r == 42 Scalar|140475831250104» | ||
timotimo | on the other hand, making it easier for users to change rakudo and nqp for their purposes is also good | ||
skids | m: class A { has $!a = Channel.new; sub s($a) { start { my $r = 42; react { whenever $a { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note; LAST { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note } } } } }; has $!t = s($!a); method f { }; method DESTROY { $!a.close } }; use nqp; A.new.f; for 0..5 {sleep 0.1; nqp::force_gc; Rat.new}; # Where'd my 42 go? | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«$r == Any Scalar|63362808» | ||
skids | It seems the local variable scope does not get constructed until the whenever gets normally entered. | 14:18 | |
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hackedNODE | andrzejku: I'm not sure what you mean by "modify for fun". The implication being that making the codebase more accessible somehow makes it more prone to unauthorized edits? :) | 14:20 | |
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timotimo | open source software is super insecure because anyone can just go and edit the code! | 14:21 | |
andrzejku | I don't mean prone | ||
timotimo | imagine all the backdoors and viruses you get! | ||
grondilu is currently writing some javascript and misses a lot of perl6 features, but when he reads about ES6 he realizes that most of these features are in ES6 or will come soon. | |||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: making the compiler in Perl 6 makes the number of people capable of improving the compiler proportionate to the number of people interested in those improvements. | ||
andrzejku | I think it makes Perl much more slower | 14:22 | |
skids | Until the compiler is improved, sure :-) | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: slower to... what? | ||
grondilu basically is wishing whoever designs javascript would just decide ES7 would be Perl 6 :) | |||
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andrzejku | I think it will be better to implement the basic command staff in native language and then add language extension which can be made in Perl using previously implemented things | 14:23 | |
hackedNODE | andrzejku: MoarVM is written in C | ||
andrzejku | right now thinks looks odd | ||
yeah | |||
but why MoarVM take so strange staff | 14:24 | ||
moar.nqp | |||
timotimo | ? | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: I'm not understanding what you mean. What strange stuff? | ||
andrzejku | moarvm it is just interpreter for nqp | 14:25 | |
skids | Unfortunately we are a long way off from rewriting MoarVM in Perl6, you just have to look at how much is invested in cc optimization/binfmt handling to see that. | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: I can put it another way: why aren't you writing EVEYRTHING in C? You know, 'cause the rest of the langs make things slower. There are many benefits. | ||
timotimo | for nqp and rakudo | ||
tbrowder | m: sub f($a | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Malformed parameterat <tmp>:1------> 3sub f($a7⏏5<EOL> expecting any of: constraint» | ||
andrzejku | and nqp is core lang design | ||
timotimo | "core lang design"? | 14:26 | |
tbrowder | m: sub a($f? where $f >= 0 | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>Malformed parameterat <tmp>:1------> 3sub a($f? where $f >= 07⏏5<EOL> expecting any of: constraint» | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: moarvm is a VM that can run QAST generated by nqp. nqp is a compiler tool chain. Rakudo is a compiler written using that toolchain. | ||
andrzejku: and what you're imagining is it's better to write Rakudo in C. Which would be a monstrous effort and would make it accessible to a handful of people, but then we'd have a faster perl. | 14:27 | ||
andrzejku | okay | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: timotimo already mentioned recent effort to do just that, and the person gave up when they realized the amount of work involved. | 14:28 | |
timotimo | honestly, having good performance for perl6 is mostly about dynamic optimization | ||
andrzejku | so Perl6 should be slower by design? | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: "slower" than what? | ||
andrzejku | slower than Swift for ex. | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: "slower" at what? | ||
andrzejku | slower at all | ||
omg | |||
tadzik | the answer to "why don't we write all compilers in C" is really the same as to "why do we not write everything in C in the first place" | ||
timotimo | we're already faster at some things compared to perl5, and perl5 is written in C | 14:29 | |
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arnsholt | The basic architecture of Perl 6 is broadly the same as used in most other VM-backed languages | 14:30 | |
There's a compiler, and it generates bytecodes for the target VM | |||
mspo | timotimo: really? | ||
dalek | c: d5272a6 | MasterDuke17++ | doc/Programs/00-running.pod6: Update the description text for 00-running.pod6 It now matches what Rakudo currently shows. |
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hackedNODE | andrzejku: omg what? What is it faster at? I can write a Perl 6 program twice as fast than the same program in Perl 5, so the person paying me for that job will have to spend half the money to receive the program they want. Comparing fastness of languages is nonsensical. There's a good saying: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" and you're trying to optimize code you haven't even thought about | ||
writing yet. | |||
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tbrowder | trying to demo an LTA error msg... | 14:31 | |
hackedNODE | andrzejku: saying X is faster than Y is useless without context and code's purpose. | ||
andrzejku | hackedNODE, okay but think why Perl6 is not used on ARM chips? | ||
arnsholt | The presence of NQP as a language specifically for implementing compilers is perhaps a bit different, but that's mostly due to the dynamism of Perl 6 making it really hard to directly implement a bootstrapping Perl 6 compiler | ||
andrzejku | and Python? yes | ||
timotimo | 6guts.wordpress.com/2016/06/12/gri...rovements/ - mspo, mostly on small examples, though | ||
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hackedNODE | andrzejku: and think why is a hammer not used to drive screws in? | 14:32 | |
and a screwdriver is | |||
tadzik | python people tried to write an OS in it too, doesn't mean it was a good idea | ||
mspo | timotimo: did that print a string a million times get fixed? :) | ||
tbrowder | sub f(Int $i? where $i >= 0){}; f() | ||
hackedNODE | andrzejku: and you're comparing apples to oranges there in the first place. Perl 6 has by far less optimization effort. | 14:33 | |
*has had | |||
timotimo | mspo: we're still using libuv async I/O for synchronous output, so i'm guessing that's still slow | ||
arnsholt | m: sub f(Int $i? where $i >= 0){}; f() # tbrowder =) | 14:34 | |
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance of type Int, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new? in sub f at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1» | ||
hackedNODE | I think that issue was due to parsing, no? | ||
m: ("print 42;" x 10000).EVAL; say now - INIT now; | |||
timotimo | oh, was that when we generate a source file that is a million lines of code, each just 'say "some string"'? | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«4242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242…» | ||
andrzejku | ok I won't argue with you | ||
hackedNODE | oh oops | ||
mspo | timotimo: yes that one | ||
hackedNODE | m: ("print '';" x 10000).EVAL; say now - INIT now; | ||
camelia | rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«7.3626973» | 14:35 | |
pmurias | andrzejku: the speed of Perl6 programs once they are compiled is not dependent on what the compiler is written in | ||
tbrowder | arnsholt: thanks! that error helps not a bit for a newbie; i added an example in the docs this morning to show how to get a type constraint on an optional arg: | ||
hackedNODE | Yeah, seems fixed. I think that one took ages to parse even with a few hundred prints and I'm not seeing the ticket on perl6.fail | 14:36 | |
pmurias | andrzejku: and a huge reason why the Rakudo is written in nqp is to allow extending of Perl 6 language by modules/slangs | ||
timotimo | mspo: 6guts.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/dig...lity-work/ this one, too | ||
DrForr | andrzejku: Perl6 has been cross-compiled to ARM; there was a talk at YAPC::EU on it. | ||
arnsholt | tbrowder: Yeah, it's an odd error! Does adding the where clause implicitly make it Int:D, or something like that? | 14:37 | |
tbrowder | m: sub f(Int $i where $i >= 0 = 0){}; f() | ||
camelia | ( no output ) | ||
tbrowder | that works but is ugly, i prefer to use a block containing the constraint: | 14:38 | |
grondilu is suprised $i >= 0 = 0 is legal | 14:40 | ||
tbrowder | m: sub f(Int $i where {$i >= 0} = 0){}; f() | ||
camelia | ( no output ) | ||
grondilu | o_O | ||
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timotimo | grondilu: only because it's in a parameter declaration | 14:40 | |
hackedNODE | grondilu: default value | ||
grondilu | oh yeah | 14:41 | |
arnsholt | Yeah, it took me a while to parse it too | 14:42 | |
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tbrowder | grondilu: i remember seeing that construct somewhere, maybe in the Christmas blogs; anyway, i'm going to file a rakudo bug unless someone objects | 14:42 | |
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hackedNODE | tbrowder: what's the bug? | 14:43 | |
tbrowder | the default value is the key to making it optional | ||
the bug is the opaque error msg | 14:44 | ||
hackedNODE | m: sub f(Int $i? where {$ // True} ){}; f() | ||
camelia | ( no output ) | ||
tbrowder | the original try was to put a constraint on an optional param | 14:45 |