»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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tushar I would like to add an element in an array at specific index. When I add the element, I don't want to replace the old element value with new rather I would like to shift the elements to the right. I hope that make sense. How can I achieve that? E.g. "Input --> my @a = [1,2,3]; --- add element at specific index and shift other elements on right -- @a = [1,4,2,3]" 00:45
timotimo that's what splice is for 00:47
geekosaur docs.perl6.org/type/Array#routine_splice
timotimo splice is really "at index i, remove n elements and replace them with this list: ..."
so you'll just be removing 0 elements
tushar timotimo: I thought so.. Thanks.. 00:48
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dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 7b463a5 | (Angelo Compagnucci)++ | includes/menu-nav:
doc.perl6.org not prominent enough

  * Documentation now point to docs.perl6.org
  * Added Resources pointing to /documentation/
Fixes: #48		 00:54
href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: dc08a96 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | includes/menu-nav:
Merge pull request #56 from angeloc/issue_48

  doc.perl6.org not prominent enough
BenGoldberg m: my @a = 1..3; @a.splice 1, 0, 4; @a.say;
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Two terms in a row␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3my @a = 1..3; @a.splice7⏏5 1, 0, 4; @a.say;␤ expecting any of:␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤ statement end␤ statement modifi…»
timotimo ^- i am quite okay with that
the perl6.org change, that is
BenGoldberg m: my @a = 1..3; @a.splice: 1, 0, 4; @a.say;
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[1 4 2 3]␤»
BenGoldberg tushar, ^
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tushar BenGoldberg: thanks. Still, I am not quite use to with the syntax without parenthesis. I just followed the syntax that shown in Perl6 doc. But it's good to know. 00:57
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tushar m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice(2,0,4).say; 00:58
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[]␤»
tushar m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice(2,0,4); @a;
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«WARNINGS for <tmp>:␤Useless use of @a in sink context (line 1)␤»
tushar m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice(2,0,4); @a.say;
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[1 2 4 3]␤»
tushar Can I replace multiple values at the same time? 01:00
Meaning adding multiple values at multiple indexes of an array and shifting the existing values. All at the same time. I hope that make sense. 01:02
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tushar m: my @a = [1,2,3]; @a.splice([0..1],0,[4..5]); @a.say; 01:03
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 87040 bytes␤»
tushar uhhh... Here is the output that I got while running above in REPL. Ouptut --> [1 2 4 5 3] 01:04
Looks like it took the last index i.e. 1 in and add new values after it. 01:05
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tushar @a; 01:09
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tushar m: my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]]; @b.splice[0,0,[7..8]); @b.say; 01:14
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unable to parse expression in subscript; couldn't find final ']' ␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3 = [[1..3],[4..6]]; @b.splice[0,0,[7..8]7⏏5); @b.say;␤ expecting any of:␤ statement end␤ …»
tushar m: my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]]; ; @b.splice(0,0,[[7..8]]); @b.say; 01:15
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[7 8 [1 2 3] [4 5 6]]␤»
tushar In above, the array get flatten. I would like to get output like this -- [[7,8],[12,3],[4,5,6]]. How can avoid array flattening? 01:16
I hope I am clear enough
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MasterDuke m: my @b = [[1..3],[4..6]]; ; @b.splice(0,0,[[7..8],]); @b.say; 01:18
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«[[7 8] [1 2 3] [4 5 6]]␤»
AlexDaniel Haha. “Definitely there is no need to repeat that 4 four times.” – but apparently there is a need to repeat number 4 two times. // #125596 01:19
synopsebot6 Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=125596
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tushar MasterDuke++ 01:21
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AlexDaniel alright, I'm failing to find a bug report 01:21
my gut says that there was one
MasterDuke tushar: that's an example of the single argument rule in action 01:22
which i'm just creating an issue in the docs for now because it should be listed/searchable
tushar MasterDuke: can you be little more expressive? Can I adapt that for my work or is it an issue? 01:23
AlexDaniel /o\ wtf 01:24
m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say max @a, :by(*.chars > *.chars)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«bbbbb␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say min @a, :by(*.chars > *.chars)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«aaa␤»
AlexDaniel alright, yes?
m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.max: :by(*.chars > *.chars)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«cc␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.min: :by(*.chars > *.chars)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«aaa␤»
AlexDaniel ??
in other words, :by is just ignored 01:25
I've seen that some time ago, can anybody remember a ticket title or something?
MasterDuke tushar: sure you can use that. is isn't really an issue, just something that people don't always realize at first
AlexDaniel by the way, it is even worse: 01:26
m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say sort @a, :by(*.chars > *.chars)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Unexpected named argument 'by' passed␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
MasterDuke AlexDaniel: i've seen a similar ticket also
rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=115758
AlexDaniel if only bisectable was here… perhaps it worked some time ago
tushar MasterDuke: Thanks.. 01:27
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AlexDaniel not a bug? Not funny 01:28
BenGoldberg m: < aaa bbbbb cc >; @a.sort(:by(*.chars)).say;
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Variable '@a' is not declared␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3< aaa bbbbb cc >; 7⏏5@a.sort(:by(*.chars)).say;␤»
BenGoldberg m: < aaa bbbbb cc >.sort(:by(*.chars)).say;
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(aaa bbbbb cc)␤»
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BenGoldberg m: < aaa bbbbb cc >.sort(*.chars).say; 01:29
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(cc aaa bbbbb)␤»
bstamour Quick question for anyone who can help me out. What does the line "use v6" actually do?
Does it matter if I only run my scripts through a perl 6 interpreter?
BenGoldberg Nothing, except that it makes perl5 bail out.
bstamour Ah, so in case I accidentally fire it through the wrong program 01:30
Thank you
BenGoldberg Right. Many perl5 and perl6 modules end in .pm or .pl
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bstamour Makes sense. 01:30
AlexDaniel it makes sense to use .pm6 and .p6 ;)
BenGoldberg The newest version of perl5 will automatically use the C-level exec() function to replace itself with perl6, if the first line starts with a # and contains 'perl6' somewhere in it. 01:31
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AlexDaniel m: my @a = < aaaaa bbbbb cc >; say unique @a, :with(*.chars == *.chars) 01:35
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(aaaaa cc)␤»
AlexDaniel /o\
so it is :by for some things and :with for others
/o\ 01:36
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AlexDaniel my biggest problem with it however is this: 01:36
m: my @a = < aaaaa bbbbb cc >; say unique @a, :as(*.chars)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«(aaaaa cc)␤»
AlexDaniel unique has a very useful :as parameter
yet nothing else has it, as far as I can see 01:37
just imagine: @a.sort(as => *.chars)
just imagine: @a.max(as => *.chars)
very readable, no *.chars ><= *.chars crap
I will open a few tickets for these. Feel free to start a holy war there. 01:39
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AlexDaniel MasterDuke: can you try clicking a “New ticket” button in RT? 01:42
I'm wondering if it is broken for everyone or just for me 01:43
MasterDuke AlexDaniel: blank page
AlexDaniel :(
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[Coke] broken here too. i'll ping the rt admins 01:45
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AlexDaniel [Coke]: thank you 01:49
MasterDuke m: sub foo($a where {* < 5 and * > 2}) {dd $a}; foo(6) 01:55
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Int $a = 6␤»
MasterDuke m: sub foo($a where * < 5 and * > 2) {dd $a}; foo(6)
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed parameter␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo($a where * < 57⏏5 and * > 2) {dd $a}; foo(6)␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤ infix␤ infix stopper␤»
MasterDuke m: sub foo($a where {* < 5}) {dd $a}; foo(6) 01:56
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub foo($a where {* < 5}7⏏5) …»
MasterDuke bug that the first one didn't give me the same error as the last?
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AlexDaniel MasterDuke: it is less than awesome 02:01
fwiw: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/5f91....nqp#L6034
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MasterDuke thanks, hadn't found it yet 02:03
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dalek c: c776b84 | MasterDuke17++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6:
Fix typos and grammaros in Signature
 02:16
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BenGoldberg m: constant μ = Mu; my μ $x = &say; dd $x; 02:20
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«Sub $x = sub say (| is raw) { #`(Sub|51498416) ... }␤»
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[Coke] the "new ticket" button was deliberately disabled following a big spam attack on the p5 queue. 02:56
(today)
abuse prevention measures need to be put into place. (volunteers welcome, but I don't know what skill sets are needed0 02:57
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perlawhi1l AlexDaniel: I brought up my concerns with sort about 5 months ago, but it never really went anywhere 03:19
I put up a gist here: gist.github.com/0racle/134921795a6...554492d824
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AlexDaniel uhh! 03:19
perlawhi1l the crux of the issue is that unique takes a named parameter, whereas most of these other methods take a code block 03:20
i feel it's not really consistent, and certainly not dwimmy 03:22
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AlexDaniel m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.max: :by(*.chars > *.chars) 03:36
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«cc␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.max: *.chars
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«bbbbb␤»
AlexDaniel m: my @a = < aaa bbbbb cc >; say @a.min: *.chars
camelia rakudo-moar ed0ced: OUTPUT«cc␤»
AlexDaniel oh, alright
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andrzejku hello my friends x) 06:38
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perlawhi1l hello 06:48
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andrzejku perlawhirl, are you guy from whirlpool? 06:49
perlawhirl nope.
andrzejku oh okay, your nickname suggest it
perlawhirl well.. i have an account, but i haven't been there in 10 years or so
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moritz \o 07:10
ufobat morning perl6 :) 07:11
andrzejku hello :) 07:12
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RabidGravy boom! 07:29
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andrzejku last days I tried to play with avr chips 07:39
and all failed :(
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masak good antenoon, #perl6 08:15
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moritz \o masak 08:27
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arnsholt mst: I retract any previous statements I have made about OpenSSL. It's precision-engineered to drive people insane >.< 08:34
TEttinger arnsholt, I believe it
why does it have a heartbeat function anyway 08:35
"madness"
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zengargoyle TEttinger: firewalls and session timeouts. 08:43
no traffic for X minutes, NAT session times out, remote sends data and fails, session lost. 08:44
TEttinger could that be resolved without exposing a buffer overflow vulnerability for much of the internet? :)
zengargoyle most probably 08:46
masak ...nah :)
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Woodi_ hi #perl6 :) 08:56
arnsholt: if someone want simler cryptography would be enought to extract from OpenSSL number generators, algoritms and drop eg. network code, (always buggy) ASN.1, file formats ? 08:59
...drop anything X.50X related ? 09:00
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arnsholt Woodi_: Probably 09:12
Of course, the X509 stuff and friends is a core part of SSL/TLS
So you'll only get so far with just the crypto
Woodi_ arnsholt: I just want math parts :) equations, pluses minuses. rest is totally ecosystem... 09:18
but probably I know nothing about network security :)
SSL/TLS is total foobar, it should be replaced 09:21
fubar even :)
zengargoyle i tend to prefer vpn like solutions where possible. vpn or ipsec or wireguard between boxes. then it's sorta a no brainer, remote side IP is just at secure as talking to localhost. 09:22
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zengargoyle Woodi_: if you just want crypto, maybe check www.wireguard.io/ ... it's a linux kernel module vpn/ipsec replacement based on pre-shared keys and "WireGuard uses state-of-the-art cryptography, like the Noise protocol framework, Curve25519, ChaCha20, Poly1305, BLAKE2, SipHash24, HKDF, and secure trusted constructions. It makes conservative and reasonable choices and has been reviewed by 09:31
cryptographers."
dalek c: 9008874 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Language/modules.pod6:
correct spelling of possessive 'its'
 09:35
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Woodi_ zengargoyle: would be nice to split that even more, extracting math and numbers calculations into more understendable form. vpns like systems shoould be everydays tools for businesses but as we know vpns was backdored long time ago (in OpenBSD) :) 09:39
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dalek c: e5ddbfe | gfldex++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6:
fix typo
 09:56
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Ulti has anyone reported a borken OSX build? 11:39
noticing its since I updated to the latest XCode
"Symbol not found: _clock_gettime"
I can try and hunt down where this has moved to if no one is already checking it out 11:40
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Ulti full output gist.github.com/MattOates/45e87e3a...f396a56c01 11:44
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moritz I'm not aware of anybody chasing it down 11:46
Ulti looks like its a problem for a lot of people over a tonne of projects for this version of XCode+OSX 11:47
OSX 10.11.6 XCode 8.0 11:48
the current solution online is update the whole of your OS :Z 11:49
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moritz does that make it OS Y? :-) 12:10
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El_Che Ulti: be careful when upgrading the OS. The signature needed to downgrade is only valid a short period of time. 12:16
ios :)
oh, I am too early? Give it a few years :)
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[Coke] I am on xcode 8.0 (8A218a) and have noticed no issues. 12:43
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bdmatatu Is it possible to use nqp::sha1 (or is there a related nqp function) to compute the sha1 of bytes that are not valid UTF-8? 12:51
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gfldex m: use nqp; say nqp::sha1("abc"); 12:56
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«A9993E364706816ABA3E25717850C26C9CD0D89D␤»
gfldex bdmatatu: ^^^ possible but may be unwise
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andrzejku hey guys 12:58
why no-one tried to write llvm perl6 interpreter?
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perlpilot andrzejku: I think it's because llvm is more of a VM toolkit than a VM 12:59
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bdmatatu gfldex: oh, too bad...nqp::sha1 is very fast, was hoping to use it as part of an hmac computation 13:00
gfldex bdmatatu: you can test if you are on rakudo and if not provide a Perl 6 variant or load a module 13:01
bdmatatu: right now it's a little tricky to have automatic tests for not being on Rakudo tho (hence my unwise-remark) 13:02
bdmatatu gfldex: unfortunately it only seems to work for utf-8, so this makes it unsuitable for hmac (since it calls the hash twice, once with potentially invalid utf-8 bytes) 13:03
DrForr bdmatatu: IIRC there's a Digest::HMAC, are you working with that?
bdmatatu I tried that, but was looking to improve performance.
(of the hash part, not the hmac part) 13:04
DrForr Nice.
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perlpilot bdmatatu: I'd guess that the underlying sha1 implementation works on arbitrary octets and the only reason nqp::sha1 says anything about UTF-8 is because you have to feed it a str. Maybe someone could change it to be encoding agnostic? 13:11
hackedNODE gfldex: why is it tricky? 13:12
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hackedNODE m: $*PERL.compiler.name.say 13:13
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«rakudo␤»
hackedNODE Oh, you mean at nqp level. Nevermind
gfldex hackedNODE: no i meant testing it against a non-Rakudo 13:14
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jnthn fwiw, the nqp::sha1 op is built for the specific purpose of hashing source code for dependency management purposes, and isn't really intended to be exposed/used more widely. 13:14
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[Coke] adds that to the docs. 13:22
dalek c: 99a8666 | (Tom Browder)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6:
add example of type constraint on an optional argument
 13:23
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nine 5~/win 13 13:37
masak m: sub infix:<~/win>($l, $r) { $l / $r }; say 5~/win 13 13:40
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«0.384615␤»
masak irssi window division :) 13:41
jnthn m) 13:44
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andrzejku hey should someone explain me 13:47
some details about nap
nqp
timotimo OK, like what?
andrzejku nap is something similar to perl? 13:48
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andrzejku nqp 13:48
timotimo "not quite perl6"
it's what we use to implement rakudo 13:49
andrzejku rakudo is perl6?
timotimo rakudo is our perl6 compiler
andrzejku okay
so
timotimo there used to be other projects, but only rakudo remains in active development
13:50 skids joined
andrzejku why nqp was invented at all? 13:50
why just not to write perl6 interpreter
in C or C++
whatever
timotimo rakudo started on Parrot. it would have been terrible to write rakudo completely in parrot's assembly-language
andrzejku and when the basic Perl6 things were implemented "they" will be used to implement standard library 13:51
timotimo there's currently a project that writes a perl6 compiler in C++
andrzejku ohh 13:52
timotimo, I am looking for it
where can I find it?
timotimo good question
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timotimo github.com/Itay2805/Perl6-Native-Compiler 13:52
there it is
oh, look at the first line of the readme
i don't see a repo for a native nqp compiler, though 13:53
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andrzejku timotimo, sorry [kid] will be soon back 13:58
timotimo i might be AFK when you return
andrzejku ok
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hackedNODE andrzejku: one of the benefits is the compiler is more accessible to Perl 6 *users* to hack on. nqp really has a feel of a Perl 6 module for a lot of things. The grammar that parses Perl 6 is pretty much the same grammar users of Perl 6 use, etc. Many parts of Rakudo would require knowledge of Perl 6 only to modify, and the end-goal is to as much as possible of Rakudo in Perl 6. 14:08
s: Hash, 'classify-list'
SourceBaby hackedNODE, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/5a3d...sh.pm#L309
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hackedNODE andrzejku: ^ any Perl 6 user can fix a problem in that method. But if Rakudo were written in C, they would need to know C to do so. 14:08
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hackedNODE plugs perl6.party/post/Perl-6-is-written-in...-Perl-6 14:09
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hackedNODE andrewalker: also: optimizations. It's easier to optimize a subset than a huge language. 14:11
timotimo on top of that, nqp has a few limitations that make optimization a whole lot more feasible 14:12
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andrzejku hackedNODE, I don't think to let users modify just for fun 14:15
is good idea
it is better if they write libs which extend language
timotimo this isn't really about "modify perl6 for fun", it's about "please help us with core development" 14:16
skids m: class A { has $!a = Channel.new; sub s($a) { start { my $r = 42; react { whenever $a { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note; LAST { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note } } } } }; has $!t = s($!a); method f { $!a.send(0) }; method DESTROY {$!a.close} }; use nqp; A.new.f; for 0..5 {sleep 0.1; nqp::force_gc; Rat.new}; # ok 14:17
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«$r == 42 Scalar|140475831250104␤$r == 42 Scalar|140475831250104␤»
timotimo on the other hand, making it easier for users to change rakudo and nqp for their purposes is also good
skids m: class A { has $!a = Channel.new; sub s($a) { start { my $r = 42; react { whenever $a { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note; LAST { "{$r.VAR.name} == {$r.perl} {$r.VAR.WHICH}".note } } } } }; has $!t = s($!a); method f { }; method DESTROY { $!a.close } }; use nqp; A.new.f; for 0..5 {sleep 0.1; nqp::force_gc; Rat.new}; # Where'd my 42 go?
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«$r == Any Scalar|63362808␤»
skids It seems the local variable scope does not get constructed until the whenever gets normally entered. 14:18
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hackedNODE andrzejku: I'm not sure what you mean by "modify for fun". The implication being that making the codebase more accessible somehow makes it more prone to unauthorized edits? :) 14:20
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timotimo open source software is super insecure because anyone can just go and edit the code! 14:21
andrzejku I don't mean prone
timotimo imagine all the backdoors and viruses you get!
grondilu is currently writing some javascript and misses a lot of perl6 features, but when he reads about ES6 he realizes that most of these features are in ES6 or will come soon.
hackedNODE andrzejku: making the compiler in Perl 6 makes the number of people capable of improving the compiler proportionate to the number of people interested in those improvements.
andrzejku I think it makes Perl much more slower 14:22
skids Until the compiler is improved, sure :-)
hackedNODE andrzejku: slower to... what?
grondilu basically is wishing whoever designs javascript would just decide ES7 would be Perl 6 :)
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andrzejku I think it will be better to implement the basic command staff in native language and then add language extension which can be made in Perl using previously implemented things 14:23
hackedNODE andrzejku: MoarVM is written in C
andrzejku right now thinks looks odd
yeah
but why MoarVM take so strange staff 14:24
moar.nqp
timotimo ?
hackedNODE andrzejku: I'm not understanding what you mean. What strange stuff?
andrzejku moarvm it is just interpreter for nqp 14:25
skids Unfortunately we are a long way off from rewriting MoarVM in Perl6, you just have to look at how much is invested in cc optimization/binfmt handling to see that.
hackedNODE andrzejku: I can put it another way: why aren't you writing EVEYRTHING in C? You know, 'cause the rest of the langs make things slower. There are many benefits.
timotimo for nqp and rakudo
tbrowder m: sub f($a
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed parameter␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub f($a7⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
andrzejku and nqp is core lang design
timotimo "core lang design"? 14:26
tbrowder m: sub a($f? where $f >= 0
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Malformed parameter␤at <tmp>:1␤------> 3sub a($f? where $f >= 07⏏5<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ constraint␤»
hackedNODE andrzejku: moarvm is a VM that can run QAST generated by nqp. nqp is a compiler tool chain. Rakudo is a compiler written using that toolchain.
andrzejku: and what you're imagining is it's better to write Rakudo in C. Which would be a monstrous effort and would make it accessible to a handful of people, but then we'd have a faster perl. 14:27
andrzejku okay
hackedNODE andrzejku: timotimo already mentioned recent effort to do just that, and the person gave up when they realized the amount of work involved. 14:28
timotimo honestly, having good performance for perl6 is mostly about dynamic optimization
andrzejku so Perl6 should be slower by design?
hackedNODE andrzejku: "slower" than what?
andrzejku slower than Swift for ex.
hackedNODE andrzejku: "slower" at what?
andrzejku slower at all
omg
tadzik the answer to "why don't we write all compilers in C" is really the same as to "why do we not write everything in C in the first place"
timotimo we're already faster at some things compared to perl5, and perl5 is written in C 14:29
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arnsholt The basic architecture of Perl 6 is broadly the same as used in most other VM-backed languages 14:30
There's a compiler, and it generates bytecodes for the target VM
mspo timotimo: really?
dalek c: d5272a6 | MasterDuke17++ | doc/Programs/00-running.pod6:
Update the description text for 00-running.pod6

It now matches what Rakudo currently shows.
hackedNODE andrzejku: omg what? What is it faster at? I can write a Perl 6 program twice as fast than the same program in Perl 5, so the person paying me for that job will have to spend half the money to receive the program they want. Comparing fastness of languages is nonsensical. There's a good saying: "Premature optimization is the root of all evil" and you're trying to optimize code you haven't even thought about
writing yet.
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tbrowder trying to demo an LTA error msg... 14:31
hackedNODE andrzejku: saying X is faster than Y is useless without context and code's purpose.
andrzejku hackedNODE, okay but think why Perl6 is not used on ARM chips?
arnsholt The presence of NQP as a language specifically for implementing compilers is perhaps a bit different, but that's mostly due to the dynamism of Perl 6 making it really hard to directly implement a bootstrapping Perl 6 compiler
andrzejku and Python? yes
timotimo 6guts.wordpress.com/2016/06/12/gri...rovements/ - mspo, mostly on small examples, though
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hackedNODE andrzejku: and think why is a hammer not used to drive screws in? 14:32
and a screwdriver is
tadzik python people tried to write an OS in it too, doesn't mean it was a good idea
mspo timotimo: did that print a string a million times get fixed? :)
tbrowder sub f(Int $i? where $i >= 0){}; f()
hackedNODE andrzejku: and you're comparing apples to oranges there in the first place. Perl 6 has by far less optimization effort. 14:33
*has had
timotimo mspo: we're still using libuv async I/O for synchronous output, so i'm guessing that's still slow
arnsholt m: sub f(Int $i? where $i >= 0){}; f() # tbrowder =) 14:34
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«Invocant requires an instance of type Int, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?␤ in sub f at <tmp> line 1␤ in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1␤␤»
hackedNODE I think that issue was due to parsing, no?
m: ("print 42;" x 10000).EVAL; say now - INIT now;
timotimo oh, was that when we generate a source file that is a million lines of code, each just 'say "some string"'?
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«4242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242424242…»
andrzejku ok I won't argue with you
hackedNODE oh oops
mspo timotimo: yes that one
hackedNODE m: ("print '';" x 10000).EVAL; say now - INIT now;
camelia rakudo-moar 5a3df8: OUTPUT«7.3626973␤» 14:35
pmurias andrzejku: the speed of Perl6 programs once they are compiled is not dependent on what the compiler is written in
tbrowder arnsholt: thanks! that error helps not a bit for a newbie; i added an example in the docs this morning to show how to get a type constraint on an optional arg:
hackedNODE Yeah, seems fixed. I think that one took ages to parse even with a few hundred prints and I'm not seeing the ticket on perl6.fail 14:36
pmurias andrzejku: and a huge reason why the Rakudo is written in nqp is to allow extending of Perl 6 language by modules/slangs
timotimo mspo: 6guts.wordpress.com/2016/03/06/dig...lity-work/ this one, too
DrForr andrzejku: Perl6 has been cross-compiled to ARM; there was a talk at YAPC::EU on it.
arnsholt tbrowder: Yeah, it's an odd error! Does adding the where clause implicitly make it Int:D, or something like that? 14:37
tbrowder m: sub f(Int $i where $i >= 0 = 0){}; f()
camelia ( no output )
tbrowder that works but is ugly, i prefer to use a block containing the constraint: 14:38
grondilu is suprised $i >= 0 = 0 is legal 14:40
tbrowder m: sub f(Int $i where {$i >= 0} = 0){}; f()
camelia ( no output )
grondilu o_O
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timotimo grondilu: only because it's in a parameter declaration 14:40
hackedNODE grondilu: default value
grondilu oh yeah 14:41
arnsholt Yeah, it took me a while to parse it too 14:42
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tbrowder grondilu: i remember seeing that construct somewhere, maybe in the Christmas blogs; anyway, i'm going to file a rakudo bug unless someone objects 14:42
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hackedNODE tbrowder: what's the bug? 14:43
tbrowder the default value is the key to making it optional
the bug is the opaque error msg 14:44
hackedNODE m: sub f(Int $i? where {$ // True} ){}; f()
camelia ( no output )
tbrowder the original try was to put a constraint on an optional param 14:45