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»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! Set by moritz on 22 December 2015. |
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| ajr_ | bye | 00:03 | |
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| sjn | Zoffix: btw, I can't seem to find any hyper operators on map.perl6.party/ ... is that a bug? | 00:09 | |
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| sjn | (also, if it isn't I'm also interested learning how one introspects Perl 6 in order to find available hyperops :) | 00:11 | |
| Zoffix | sjn: hyperops... like, which ones? | ||
| sjn | »whatever« | 00:12 | |
| «+» | |||
| etc. | |||
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| Zoffix | sjn: those are generated dynamically. | 00:14 | |
| sjn | ok, so... how can I automatically figure out which ones are available? :) | ||
| Zoffix | m: say &[RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR,] | ||
| camelia | -> |args is raw { #`(Block|38489944) ... } | ||
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| Zoffix | sjn: the subs that make them are in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...metaops.pm I don't know of any mapping that maps syntax to those subs; could be just grammar stuff | 00:15 | |
| sjn | hm | ||
| Zoffix | m: say &infix_circumfix_meta_operator:sym<« »> | 00:17 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Undeclared routine: infix_circumfix_meta_operator:sym<« »> used at line 1 |
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| Zoffix | Yeah, looks like these bits of grammar handle 'em: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...4086-L4108 | ||
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| sjn has no idea on how to access that programatically | 00:19 | ||
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| TimToady | they can't be, currently, because they're more-or-less hardwired syntax, and it would be difficult to put them in as mere higher-order functions because they are smart about thunking thunky operators, which functions can't do | 00:34 | |
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| TimToady | m: say [||] 1, 2, die "oops" | 00:35 | |
| camelia | 1 | ||
| TimToady | m: say (1, 2, die "oops").reduce(&infix:<||>) | ||
| camelia | oops in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| TimToady | so while you could say that .reduce is the HOF underneat [||], it's not entirely accurate | 00:36 | |
| really, what you'd need to do is pull proto-rules out of the Perl 6 grammar | 00:37 | ||
| sammers | hi #perl6 | ||
| TimToady | which is pretty much what Zoffix++ was saing already | 00:38 | |
| *saying | |||
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| TimToady | m: .say when /meta_operator/ for $?LANG.grammar.^methods».name | 00:46 | |
| camelia | prefix_circumfix_meta_operator infix_postfix_meta_operator infix_prefix_meta_operator infix_circumfix_meta_operator postfix_prefix_meta_operator prefix_postfix_meta_operator postfix_prefix_meta_operator:sym<»> prefix_postfix_meta_operator:… |
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| TimToady | sjn: ^^^ | 00:47 | |
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| TimToady | m: .say when /fix '_meta_operator'? ':'/ for $?LANG.grammar.^methods».name | 00:49 | |
| camelia | statement_prefix:sym<BEGIN> statement_prefix:sym<COMPOSE> statement_prefix:sym<TEMP> statement_prefix:sym<CHECK> statement_prefix:sym<INIT> statement_prefix:sym<ENTER> statement_prefix:sym<FIRST> statement_prefix:sym<END> statement_prefix… |
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| TimToady | heh | ||
| well, there's a sense in which statement_prefixes are operators too... | 00:50 | ||
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| lizmat | and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/...a-changin/ | 00:50 | |
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| TimToady | m: .say when /^ < pre in post circum postcircum> fix .*? ":sym" / for $?LANG.grammar.^methods».name | 00:59 | |
| camelia | infix:sym<lambda> circumfix:sym<STATEMENT_LIST( )> circumfix:sym<( )> circumfix:sym<[ ]> circumfix:sym<ang> circumfix:sym«<< >>» circumfix:sym<« »> circumfix:sym<{ }> postfix_prefix_meta_operator:sym<»> prefix_postfix_meta_operator… |
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| sjn | TimToady: oh, nice! :D | 01:28 | |
| timotimo | put a <( after ":sym" to make the stuff a bit more compact: | 01:29 | |
| m: $/.Str.say when /^ < pre in post circum postcircum> fix .*? ":sym" <( / for $?LANG.grammar.^methods».name | |||
| camelia | … |
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| timotimo | whoops :D | ||
| m: $/.Str.say when /^ < pre in post circum postcircum> fix .*? ":sym" / for $?LANG.grammar.^methods».name | 01:30 | ||
| camelia | infix:sym circumfix:sym circumfix:sym circumfix:sym circumfix:sym circumfix:sym circumfix:sym circumfix:sym postfix_prefix_meta_operator:sym prefix_postfix_meta_operator:sym infix_circumfix_meta_operator:sym infix_circumfix_meta_ope… |
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| timotimo | m: $/.Str.say when /^ < pre in post circum postcircum> fix .*? ":sym" <( .* / for $?LANG.grammar.^methods».name | ||
| camelia | <lambda> <STATEMENT_LIST( )> <( )> <[ ]> <ang> «<< >>» <« »> <{ }> <»> <«> <« »> «<< >>» <[ ]> <{ }> <ang> «<< >>» <« »> <( )> <[; ]> <{; }> <i> <++> <--> <++> <--> <ⁿ> «->» <**> <… |
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| timotimo | of course it then has to match stuff after the "beginning" marker :D | ||
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| sjn isn't familiar with the <( syntax | 01:33 | ||
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| sjn | Aah, it's the capture marker... didn't make sense to me that there was only one of it | 01:34 | |
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| timotimo | what's worse, you can put )> before <( | 01:41 | |
| sjn | what's the rationale behind that? | 01:42 | |
| elaADnlxie | significantly reworked versions of *ables are up. Please report issues if there are any | ||
| (though gonna commit that all tomorrow) | |||
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| timotimo | the rationale? behind being able to put it whereever you want? | 01:51 | |
| for one, you can put it into optional groups, for example | |||
| sammers | is there a way to create a prefix that captures a subroutine call without executing it? for example, say my prefix is called 'runlater': runlater foo 123; where runlater captures the "foo 123" call without actually running foo(123); | 01:53 | |
| timotimo | that's called "thunking" | ||
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| timotimo | you need a macro for that purpose | 01:53 | |
| sammers | ok | ||
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| sjn | hm | 01:54 | |
| sammers | timotimo, the docs don't have anything on macros / thunking yet. Are there any examples you can point me to? | 01:55 | |
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| sammers | ok, "use experimental :macros;", nevermind, I will hold off on this idea for now. | 02:00 | |
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| timotimo | we should rename that "use experimental :oldmacros" in anticipation of the new macros landing this or next year | 02:01 | |
| sammers | thanks timotimo, found this older post about macros if anyone is interested strangelyconsistent.org/blog/macros...hey-really | ||
| timotimo | yeah, mäsak is our macro implementor | 02:02 | |
| sammers | on the topic of experimental features, is there a schedule anywhere with ETAs for upcoming features? | ||
| timotimo | hm, what experimental features do we even have? i seem to recall only macros and pack | 02:03 | |
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| sammers | also, cache | 02:03 | |
| collation | |||
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| timotimo | oh, yeah, collation is super new | 02:03 | |
| sammers | what is the idea behind cache? | 02:04 | |
| timotimo | the idea behind the feature or the idea behind making it experimental? | 02:06 | |
| sammers | ok, on the Experimental features page it lists cache as experimental, but we can already use .cache on Lists today. Is it the same method? | 02:07 | |
| timotimo | that's different | ||
| sammers | ah | ||
| timotimo | the cache thing from experimental is about marking your subs and methods "is cached" | ||
| which will install a hash for you that is keyed on arguments passed to the sub or method and its values are what it returned the first time it ran with those arguments | 02:08 | ||
| from then on it'll just return the values from the hash instead of running your sub or method | |||
| but it's extremely problematic to just choose one way to make the key and be done with it | |||
| especially for methods | |||
| like, do you use the actual objects that were passed? then you'll be keeping objects alive until the process dies | 02:09 | ||
| do you stringify values? then you'll lose the subtle differences between values that stringify to the same thing - especially problematic for user-made types that don't have a fully thought-out .Str method - or none at all! | |||
| sammers | will there be a way of doing introspection on the cached subs? to see what actually cached? | 02:10 | |
| timotimo | and if you "is cached" a method, what parts of the invocant (aka the "self") get put into the key? all public attributes? all private attributes, too? | ||
| that's easy to do, but who knows if we want to offer that | |||
| i'm actually not sure where the implementation of our experimental "is cached" lives at the moment | 02:11 | ||
| sammers | it might be useful when constructing a sub to take advantage of caching more effectively | ||
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| timotimo | if you're already going past what the thing supplies by default, it's pretty much trivial to write your own cache | 02:12 | |
| you can find the implementation of "is cached" in rakudo's lib/experimental.pm6 | 02:13 | ||
| sammers | thanks, I will take a look | ||
| timotimo | all you'd need to do to make the hash available for introspection and manipulation: apply a role to the sub that is parameterized with the hash | 02:14 | |
| and create a method that just returns that hash | |||
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| ZzZombo | Sounds like a bug: | 02:23 | |
| Ambiguous call to 'postcircumfix:<{ }>'; these signatures all match: | |||
| :(Str:D \s, \x, *%_) | |||
| :(\SELF, Iterable \key, :$delete!, *%other) | |||
| called like | |||
| say 'qeegrhddvs'<as for loop>:delete; | |||
| timotimo | what were you expecting :D | ||
| ZzZombo | Str:D should have precedence, shouldn't it? | ||
| as a less general | |||
| -a | |||
| timotimo | actually with the Iterable key and :delete! it might not | 02:24 | |
| m: say &postcircumfix:<{ }>.candidates | |||
| camelia | (sub postcircumfix:<{ }> (\SELF, \key) { #`(Sub|52618544) ... } sub postcircumfix:<{ }> (\SELF, \key, Mu \ASSIGN) { #`(Sub|52614592) ... } sub postcircumfix:<{ }> (\SELF, \key, Mu :$BIND! is raw) { #`(Sub|52617480) ... } sub postcircumfix:<{ }> (\SELF, \… | ||
| timotimo | m: say &postcircumfix:<{ }>.candidates>>.signature | ||
| camelia | ((\SELF, \key) (\SELF, \key, Mu \ASSIGN) (\SELF, \key, Mu :$BIND! is raw) (\SELF, \key, :$delete!, *%other) (\SELF, \key, :$exists!, *%other) (\SELF, \key, :$kv!, *%other) (\SELF, \key, :$p!, *%other) (\SELF, \key, :$k!, *%other) (\SELF, \key, :$v!, *%ot… | ||
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| timotimo | anyway, i'm late for bed | 02:28 | |
| oh, also: the less general a signature is, the less precedence it gets | |||
| more clearly: | 02:29 | ||
| ZzZombo | what | ||
| timotimo | the more specific signature is the one that will get called | ||
| i think what you get here is the problem where you have parameter 1 with a type constraint in candidate A, and parameter 2 with a type constraint in candidate B | |||
| and both type constraints match | |||
| m: multi sub aaaaaah(Str $a, $b) { "first" }; multi sub aaaaaah($a, Int $b) { "second" }; say aaaaaah("hi", 10) | 02:30 | ||
| camelia | Ambiguous call to 'aaaaaah'; these signatures all match: :(Str $a, $b) :($a, Int $b) in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| timotimo | m: multi sub aaaaaah(Str $a, $b) { "first" }; multi sub aaaaaah($a, Int $b) { "second" }; say aaaaaah("hi", "oh") | ||
| camelia | first | ||
| ZzZombo | that really... comes unexpected | ||
| timotimo | m: multi sub aaaaaah(Str $a, $b) { "first" }; multi sub aaaaaah($a, Int $b) { "second" }; say aaaaaah(9, 9) | ||
| camelia | second | ||
| timotimo | why would it? | ||
| ZzZombo | and different to all other languages with overloading. | ||
| timotimo | i think we are using the word "general" with complete opposite meanings then | 02:31 | |
| which is the more general one, DoTheThing(Object a, Object b) or DoTheThing(String a, String b)? | |||
| ZzZombo | none? | ||
| timotimo | wat | ||
| in that case, you're using "general" in a third way that i was not aware of even existed | 02:32 | ||
| ZzZombo | "general" as in "more wide", "matches more things", what other meanings does it have here? | 02:33 | |
| timotimo | yeah, "general" is "more wide" | ||
| so then why would (Object, Object) not be more general than (String, String)? | |||
| every String is also Object, so Object, Object will match String, String, but every other possible combination of things as well | 02:34 | ||
| so Object, Object clearly is more general? | |||
| but you want the *less* general one to be called | |||
| otherwise you could never ever reach the (String, String) candidate in my example | |||
| ZzZombo | if you talk about P6, there is no Object type I'm aware of, so it has to be a user type unrelated to String, | ||
| timotimo | you were the one who started with "{ll other languages with overloading" | ||
| p6 also has no String type either | 02:35 | ||
| ZzZombo | languages differ, in many of them strings don't inherit from any objects, so this example was hard to judge. | ||
| timotimo | what, really? | ||
| certainly that's the case in java and c# | |||
| ZzZombo | well... yea | ||
| timotimo | c++ doesn't have something like Object, except if you count "void *" | 02:36 | |
| python is that way, too | |||
| i mean, not the same way as c++, the same way as java and c# | |||
| also ruby i believe | |||
| i imagine haskell has something like the bottom type that everything is derived of (or maybe i mean the top type?) | 02:37 | ||
| ZzZombo | Pascal and C++ don't have strings as objects. | ||
| timotimo | well, you can surely claim std:: doesn't belong to the language, but i'd call that cheating | ||
| ZzZombo | ow, | ||
| I meant C | |||
| timotimo | ah | ||
| yeah, C doesn't really have a native notion of objects in the first place | |||
| also, C doesn't do any overloading, and i'm not sure if pascal does | 02:38 | ||
| object pascal probably does, though | |||
| ZzZombo | Well, can we go back to topic of why does the Str:D candidate loses, exactly? | ||
| timotimo | it doesn't lose | 02:39 | |
| it ties with the other candidate | |||
| ZzZombo | it doesn't win, I mean | ||
| timotimo | candidate one wants the first argument to be a defined string | ||
| candidate two wants the key to be Iterable | |||
| the first argument is a defined string, the second argument is an Iterable | |||
| the second candidate also wants a :delete argument to exist, which it does in this case | 02:40 | ||
| the second candidate is theoretically narrower (less general) but named arguments don't factor into the calculation at all in p6 | 02:41 | ||
| oh, and the first candidate allows any named to exist, so it doesn't get kicked out because of the :delete you've passed | 02:42 | ||
| i'm not sure if i'm explaining well | |||
| which part of what i say doesn't make sense to you? | |||
| SmokeMachine | moritz: my Punnable wasnt mentioned... :( | ||
| modules.perl6.org/?q=Punnable | 02:43 | ||
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| timotimo | wasn't mentioned where? | 02:44 | |
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| timotimo | i expect you meant the weekly, where i just put that in | 02:45 | |
| SmokeMachine | p6w | 02:46 | |
| timotimo | moritz isn't responsible for the weekly :) | ||
| SmokeMachine | timotimo: thanks! :) | ||
| timotimo | YW | 02:47 | |
| okay, i'm waaaaay late for bed now, ZzZombo can we continue this tomorrow? | |||
| ZzZombo | Yea, sure. | ||
| Thanks anyway. | |||
| timotimo | (also, the rain stopped splattering violently against the blinds, so that's very good for the sleepings) | ||
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| timotimo | i think my tone was a bit overbearing; sorry about that, i'm dealing with weird withdrawal effects :\ | 02:48 | |
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| ZzZombo | Well, anyway, the bit what makes no sense to me how does it ignore the less generic arguments to the left when deciding what to use in case of a tie. | 02:50 | |
| timotimo | that's just because perl6 doesn't have a rule where matches earlier in the signature win over matches later in the signature | 02:51 | |
| i.e. if candidate A matches parameter 1 and candidate B matches parameter 2, no-one wins | |||
| well, there's the splattering water noise again :\ | |||
| ZzZombo | I've just refreshed my memory regarding how overloading works, say, in C++: cpp.sh/3milb | 02:52 | |
| timotimo | it's not the romantic kind of rain noise you'd get from a "rainy mood website" or something | ||
| ZzZombo | The compiler guessed the candidate using the type of the first argument, so there was no ambigous call. | ||
| Why does P6 differ? | 02:53 | ||
| timotimo | your c++ example doesn't map to the p6 example | ||
| ZzZombo | Well, it was simplified, what do you think? Unless you want to say it's different enough not to illustrate anything. | ||
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| timotimo | cpp.sh/23blg | 02:54 | |
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| timotimo | this is the equivalent of what you're trying to do and it gives this message: | 02:54 | |
| In function 'int main()': | |||
| 18:12: error: call of overloaded 'x(int*, int*)' is ambiguous | |||
| 18:12: note: candidates are: | |||
| 5:6: note: void x(int*, void*) | |||
| 9:6: note: void x(void*, int*) | |||
| note how C++ doesn't let the first one win because the earlier parameter matches | 02:56 | ||
| matches exactly* | |||
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| timotimo finally goes to bed | 03:01 | ||
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| ZzZombo | Why all of the sudden my AT-KEY gets a capture for the key? | 04:15 | |
| multi method AT-KEY(::?CLASS:D: \key) { print 'AT-KEY: ',\key,"\n"; say key.WHAT; <-- Capture } | 04:16 | ||
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| TimToady | m: my regex abc { ‘aaa’ }; my regex xyz { <&abc> }; say ‘aaa’ ~~ /<xyz>/ | 05:02 | |
| camelia | ｢aaa｣ xyz => ｢aaa｣ |
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| ZzZombo | m: sub x{ my $*x=$*x // 'abc'};my $*x=123;x | 09:30 | |
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| ZzZombo | m: sub x{ my $*x=$*x // 'abc'};my $*x=123;say x | ||
| camelia | abc | ||
| ZzZombo | m: sub x{ my $*x=$*x // 'abc'};my $*x=123;say x,$*x | ||
| camelia | abc123 | ||
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| ZzZombo | m: sub x{ with $*x {.say} };my $*x=123;say x,$*x | 09:34 | |
| camelia | 123 True123 |
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| ZzZombo | m: sub x{ with $*x {.say} else {say 'NULL'} };my $*x=123;say x,$*x | ||
| camelia | 123 True123 |
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| ZzZombo | m: sub x{ with $*x {.say} else {say 'NULL'} };x | ||
| camelia | NULL | ||
| ZzZombo | WTF, doesn't work for me. | ||
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| moritz | seems to work fine | 09:46 | |
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| Ven | maybe upgrade your local rakudo™ :) | 09:51 | |
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| masak | TimToady: in the case of `my $x; quasi { my $x; quasi { {{{$x}}} } }`, which $x gets bound in the unquote? | 10:03 | |
| TimToady: I've understood earlier remarks from you to mean the answe is "the outer one"; just double-checking | 10:04 | ||
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| lizmat clickbaits p6weekly.wordpress.com/2017/02/28/...a-changin/ | 10:12 | ||
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| Ven | lizmat++ | 10:13 | |
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| moritz | lizmat++ | 10:19 | |
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| masak | lizmat++ | 10:22 | |
| masak read that as "the iOS are a-changin'" :P | |||
| lizmat | :-) | 10:23 | |
| bbkr_ | p6: say (0+1i) * (0+1i); say (0+1i) ** 2 # power Num-ifies aruments? looks like bug to me | ||
| camelia | -1+0i -1+1.22464679914735e-16i |
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| masak | bbkr_: doesn't look like a bug to me | 10:24 | |
| bbkr_: not if you take into account the definition of pow() for complex numbers | |||
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| masak | that, plus, if you're doing complex numbers you're already doing Num under the hood, so on your head be it | 10:25 | |
| jnthn | A complex is defined as two floating point arguments | ||
| masak | right | ||
| Ven | Zoffix: your M module is very cute, but once again I wish we had a .grep-not :) | 10:26 | |
| masak | Ven: M module? | 10:27 | |
| url? | |||
| Ven | github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-M masak | ||
| jnthn | Ven: is .grep(!*.foo) or .grep({ not .foo }) not enough? :-) | ||
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| masak | indeed cute | 10:28 | |
| Ven | jnthn: not for the smartmatch-y cases. .grep(/foo/) is nice | ||
| but .grep(* !~~ /foo/) breaks the magic :). | |||
| bbkr_ | thanks for explanation. this looks weird that "(0+1i) * (0+1i) == (0+1i) ** 2" gives False :( | ||
| jnthn | As in, is too much to type, or doesn't work? | ||
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| masak | bbkr_: welcome to floating-point. | 10:29 | |
| Ven | no, it does work, I'd just like to have something that does !~~ for me, like the current grep does ~~ for me | ||
| jnthn | bbkr_: This is exactly why 1.2 and similar are Rat, not Num, in Perl 6. | ||
| masak | bbkr_: www.floating-point-gui.de/ ;) | 10:30 | |
| masak hopes that last URL doesn't come across as too patronizing | |||
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| bbkr_ | :) | 10:30 | |
| masak | it's a good resource. | ||
| jnthn | bbkr_: But for Complex, Rat would probably be an odd default given most use cases for them would want floating point. | ||
| Warts and all | |||
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| jnthn | I think it's been speculated that there could be a Complex[Rat,Rat] at some point in the future | 10:31 | |
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| masak | not sure you need one type parameter for each axis... :P | 10:32 | |
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| masak .oO( I'll have a complex number with the reals being integers and the imaginaries being 2-adic numbers, please ) | 10:32 | ||
| jnthn | hah, point :P | 10:33 | |
| bbkr_ | masak: that's exactly what I was thinking after reading "If the right-hand side is a non-negative integer and the left-hand side is an arbitrary precision type (Int, FatRat), then the calculation is carried out without loss of precision." in docs. that Complex is made of 2 Ints, therefore it should be calculated without precision loss | 10:34 | |
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| moritz | bbkr_: we don't have Complex made of Ints yet | 10:35 | |
| bbkr_: all our Complex are (num, num) right now | |||
| masak | jnthn: the one thing I'm looking forward to, though, is Complex[Complex] :P | ||
| moritz | and nobody seems to bother enough to do anything about it | ||
| masak | my pet peeve about Complex is when people use them as a pair of numbers (and nothing more) | 10:36 | |
| jnthn | Why? 'cus it's...an overly-complex solution? :P | 10:37 | |
| masak | something like that | ||
| it doesn't carry the right kind of intent for me | 10:38 | ||
| jnthn | *nod* | ||
| masak | to me, the notable thing about complex numbers isn't "a pair of numbers" (though I guess it is for many, which kind of explains it) | ||
| it's the fact that i * i == -1 | |||
| m: say i * i | |||
| camelia | -1+0i | ||
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| Ven | .oO( How could you not use this opportunity to showcase ² ) |
10:39 | |
| m: -1² # I have no idea what the priority is | |||
| camelia | WARNINGS for <tmp>: Useless use of "-" in expression "-1²" in sink context (line 1) |
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| Ven | m: say -1² # looks like - comes later? | 10:40 | |
| camelia | -1 | ||
| masak | yes, prefixes tend to be looser than postfixes | ||
| the exception being : | |||
| Ven | I guess, much like in JS and others, we don't have negative literals :). | ||
| masak | m: my $d = 42; say :$d.perl | ||
| camelia | :d(42) | ||
| Ven | m: my %h = -1 => a; say %h.perl; | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Undeclared routine: a used at line 1 |
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| Ven | m: my %h = -1 => 'a'; say %h.perl; # barefails | 10:41 | |
| camelia | {"-1" => "a"} | ||
| Ven | m: my %h = 1 => 'a'; say %h.perl; # look ma, no strings(?) | ||
| camelia | {"1" => "a"} | ||
| masak | Ven: we don't, but thankfully the "constant parameter default" mechanism recognizes prefix:<-> as a part of a constant value | ||
| thanks to jnthn++, I believe | |||
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| Ven | okay, thanks. we're better off than the aforementioned JS, where {-1: 1} is a parse error (because it expects a literal) :) | 10:42 | |
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| jnthn | masak: I don't think that was me, fwiw :) | 10:42 | |
| Or at least, I don't remember doing that :) | |||
| masak | Ven: Perl 6's object notation isn't so literal-minded :P | ||
| jnthn: I'm not gonna retract that increment, if that's what you're hoping for :P | 10:43 | ||
| Ven | .oO( I always pretend I didn't do anything, in case it ever breaks ) |
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| ZzZombo | I had to replace | 11:01 | |
| callwith SELF,@a,|%_; | |||
| with | |||
| CORE::{'&postcircumfix:<{ }>'}(SELF,@a,|%_); | |||
| because the first complained about too many positional arguments (2), expected 1. | |||
| Why tho? | 11:02 | ||
| Zoffix | - with ints in sig was TimToady's doing IIRC and I made it work for all numerics. | ||
| The priority in -1² is exactly the same as in regular math: -(1²) | 11:03 | ||
| I don't get how .grep-not(/foo/) is better than .grep({!/foo/}) | |||
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| Zoffix | lizmat++ good weekly | 11:12 | |
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| ZzZombo | This is stupid. Why should Ranges somehow get messed up when passing them around, unlike other objects? | 11:19 | |
| m: say my $x=0..* | |||
| camelia | 0..Inf | ||
| ZzZombo | m: my $x=0..*;sub x($x){ $x.say };x $x; | 11:20 | |
| camelia | 0..Inf | ||
| ZzZombo | wtf | ||
| moritz | ZzZombo: please tone done your swearing a bit | 11:21 | |
| ZzZombo | m: my $x=0..*;sub x($x){ (1,2,3,4,5,6)[$x] };say x $x; | ||
| camelia | Cannot coerce Inf to an Int in sub x at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 Actually thrown at: in sub x at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | m: my $x=0..*;sub x($x is raw){ (1,2,3,4,5,6)[$x] };say x $x; | ||
| camelia | Cannot coerce Inf to an Int in sub x at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 Actually thrown at: in sub x at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | m: my $x:=0..*;sub x($x is raw){ (1,2,3,4,5,6)[$x] };say x $x; | 11:21 | |
| camelia | (1 2 3 4 5 6) | ||
| ZzZombo | why is that? | ||
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| ZzZombo | Now I have to track down where exactly did I forget `is raw` or binding it instead of assigning. | 11:23 | |
| jnthn | Because $x is a Scalar container | ||
| moritz | might be a difference in how the [] subscript deals with containerized vs. not-containerized values | ||
| jnthn | If you assign into it you are putting something into the container | ||
| If you bind, you're replacing the container with a value | |||
| And then [...] subscripting cares about whether there's an item or not | 11:24 | ||
| m: my @a = 1..5; my @b = 1..3; say @a[@b]; say @a[$@b] | |||
| camelia | (2 3 4) 4 |
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| jnthn | Probably better to just use sigilless vars which imply no context | 11:25 | |
| That's primarily why they exist | |||
| ZzZombo | But it comes from within a hash :S | ||
| unless there is a way to make it as a whole "sigilles"... is there? | 11:26 | ||
| jnthn | Could also bind into the hash in the first place, or just do <> at the point of use | 11:28 | |
| ZzZombo | it was bound in the hash | ||
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| ZzZombo | %h<range>:=0..* if %h<range>:!exists; | 11:29 | |
| and it is not set up otherwise in the test. | |||
| jnthn | m: my %h; %h<range> := 0..*; m: my @a = 1..5; say @a[%h<range>]; | 11:30 | |
| camelia | (1 2 3 4 5) | ||
| jnthn | m: my %h; %h<range> := 0..*; sub x(\r) { my @a = 1..5; say @a[r] }; x %h<range>; | 11:31 | |
| camelia | (1 2 3 4 5) | ||
| ZzZombo | m: my %h; %h<range> := 0..*; sub x(%_) { my @a = 1..5; say @a[%_<range>] }; x %h; # more like this in my code | 11:32 | |
| camelia | (1 2 3 4 5) | ||
| ZzZombo | duh | 11:33 | |
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| ZzZombo | m: my %h; %h<range> := 0..*; sub x(%_) { my @a = 1..5; say @a[%_<range>] }; my %h2=%h; x %h2 | 11:36 | |
| camelia | Cannot coerce Inf to an Int in sub x at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 Actually thrown at: in sub x at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | Bingo | ||
| this is really so fragile, I can't believe. | |||
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| moritz | it's mostly fragile because there are so many edge cases you need to consider | 11:38 | |
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| jnthn | ZzZombo: If you know it's going to be a range at the point of use, it'd probably be better to do <> | 11:39 | |
| moritz | and it took us quite some time (like, years) to get it right | ||
| ZzZombo | jnthn: can you show what exactly do you mean? | 11:41 | |
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| Zoffix | Can I somehow get at Perl6::Compiler? | 11:44 | |
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| Zoffix | Wanna do REPL.new(compiler, %).repl-eval("die"); but I can't figure out where to get the compiler from | 11:44 | |
| brrt | iirc, there was something called 'getcomp' | 11:45 | |
| moritz | m: use nqp; say nqp::getcomp('perl6').^name | 11:46 | |
| camelia | Perl6::Compiler | ||
| jnthn | nqp::getcomp | ||
| Zoffix | m: use Perl6::Compiler:from<NQP>; Perl6::Compiler.new | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| Zoffix | Thanks. | ||
| jnthn | m: my $a = 0..*; my @a = 1..5; say @a[$a<>] | ||
| camelia | (1 2 3 4 5) | ||
| jnthn | ZzZombo: ^^ | ||
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| ZzZombo | but the thing is, I wanted to cover as many possibilities to index the object in a single parameter. | 11:48 | |
| like [*], [], [1..2], [*-3,*-1], etc | 11:49 | ||
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| tbrowder | mornin' #perl6 | 12:10 | |
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| tbrowder | i was just looking at the perl6 home page and wonder what you think about two possible changes: (1) make the upper-left Camelia a hot link to the home page from all the other perl6 pages and (2) add some kind of modest svh animation to one or more pages. | 12:14 | |
| s/svh/svg/ | |||
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| DrForr | I'd agree to the Camelia link, in retrospect I'm a bit surprised it wasn't that way already. | 12:19 | |
| tbrowder | one example of animation is to make the larger Camelia flutter a small amount periodically. the flutter could be just a minor rotation cw then ccw a few degrees. the time interval and flutter amount could be randomized. of course TimToady would have to approve since Camelia is his and the orientation is currently fixed as is. | ||
| masak laughs out loud at "of course TimToady would have to approve" | 12:21 | ||
| tbrowder | well it's his copyright | ||
| masak | we're talking about rotating a logo by a few degrees | 12:22 | |
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| Zoffix | -1 to any animation or fluttering unless there's an easy way to disable it. For me, it'd make the page completely unreadable. | 12:23 | |
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| Zoffix | www.webaccessibility.com/best_prac...form_id=11 | 12:24 | |
| masak | there used to be a time when Esc in the browser stopped all animations | ||
| I miss that | |||
| Zoffix | Yeah, I don't get why it was apparently rwmoved. | 12:25 | |
| tbrowder | i don't think minor and slow reorientation occasionally would trigger an epilepticc fit or bting on the internet police | 12:26 | |
| masak | Zoffix: there's probably an interesting story behind that, but I don't know it | 12:27 | |
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| tbrowder | (mumble stupid virtual keyboard...) | 12:27 | |
| masak | tbrowder: I would agree, but I could also argue Zoffix's PoV. in this case, what would be the *usability* story for such an animation | 12:28 | |
| other that "we're cute!", I guess | |||
| DrForr | Accessibility isn't about triggering epilepsy or being PC, it's about being available to the widest crowd possible. | ||
| masak | if the animation doesn't work, it doesn't work | ||
| can still view the page in lynx | |||
| tbrowder | yeah, "cute" to make Camelia seem alive | ||
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| masak | I'm not sure making Camelia seem alive is a goal of perl6.org | 12:30 | |
| do you know any other languages (python, ruby, etc) whose logotype moves? | |||
| DrForr | I empathize with the desire, my problem is that movement is going to distract, and a fluttering of wings in the UL corner of the screen is going to make my eyes flicker to that corner of the screen when I'm trying to puzzle out what @f>><==@bar means, which is going to be distracting as all f*ck. | 12:31 | |
| brrt | i'm not sure which part of this is not bikeshedding :-) | ||
| tbrowder | DrForr: i was just referring to a bit of the rules Zoffix pointed out--don't think it would fall under the guidelines if done modestly--wouldn't affect content really | ||
| Zoffix | tbrowder: a person with cognitive disability just told you the feature would make the page unreadable... feels strange to me you dismiss it as "internet police". There are user scrips to fight it, of course... | ||
| tbrowder | why would it be unreadable? | ||
| i'm not unsympathetic, just trying to understand... | 12:32 | ||
| DrForr | I could argue for it on the front page where your eyes are already flickering around trying to find the topic you're after, it gives some action and life to the page. But if I'm reading docs, the last thing I want is some damn animation distracting me from trying to read the text. I'm already assaulted by enough of that crap on an hourly basis. | 12:33 | |
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| Zoffix | tbrowder: every time the butterfly would move your full attention moves to it, then you have to go back and try to find where you were reading, until it moves again, and quickly the brain starts to anticipate the next movement, just focusing on it, so you have to block it out by scrolling away or with your hand or movinf another window over it | 12:34 | |
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| lucasb | re animated logos: you can play with Crystal logo here: crystal-lang.org/ , try spinning it | 12:34 | |
| Zoffix | or using AdBlock to block the image, if it is an image | 12:35 | |
| lucasb | cute, no? | ||
| DrForr | That's why I like focus-follows-mouse on window managers that have it. I can scroll around in a window at the bottom of a stack of 10 to find a line and mouse back to the terminal without losing my hierarchy. | ||
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| masak | lucasb: not really :P | 12:37 | |
| lucasb | :) | ||
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| timotimo | i just made my xfwm4 not raise windows when i use the scrollwheel on 'em | 12:38 | |
| DrForr | Again, just to make myself clear, I'm fine with it on the home page and maybe pages like 'download' where you're either making a decision or waiting for software. Not on documentation, especially language docs where we have long pages of text. | 12:39 | |
| timotimo | (window manager tweaks -> accessibility -> raise windows when any mouse button is pressed" | ||
| ") | |||
| ZzZombo: you still awake? interested in talking about the ambiguous dispatch case any more, or is that no longer an issue? | |||
| DrForr | Also on some mobile browsers animations refocus the page to the top when they cycle. | 12:40 | |
| brrt | pro: cute; con: everything | ||
| timotimo | m( | ||
| there's a subreddit that has an animated banner that scrolls through from right to left and it has a "stop animation" button that just links to the mobile version of reddit on that same subreddit | 12:41 | ||
| Zoffix | heh | 12:42 | |
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| ZzZombo | timotimo: uh, I don't even remember what my code looked like this morning anymore. | 12:46 | |
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| timotimo | that's cool | 12:49 | |
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| lucasb | when 6.d is scheduled? can I leave my suggestions here on the channel? | 13:04 | |
| lizmat | #perl6-dev may be a better place ? | 13:05 | |
| lucasb | right, thanks lizmat | ||
| Zoffix | Wow, $5 Linode... RIP shared hosting. | 13:06 | |
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| timotimo | ugh, reading about the CloudPets database situation makes me sick | 13:14 | |
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| timotimo | www.troyhunt.com/data-from-connect...-messages/ - if you want to vomit alongside me | 13:15 | |
| DrForr | Just read that from another source. | 13:17 | |
| Or at least the headline portion. | |||
| timotimo | yeah, guess what | 13:20 | |
| they left their mongodb accessible from the public internet | |||
| multiple parties copied their whole database off-site and left a ransom demand database next to the original data | |||
| El_Che | well | ||
| in my view that part is irrelevant | |||
| the part that matters is why are they keeping all that stuff | |||
| timotimo | to put a cherry on top, the company later responded saying it's just "a very minimal issue" | ||
| that's not surprising | 13:21 | ||
| it's just how the app works | |||
| El_Che | the fly on top the Internet-Of-Shit | ||
| DrForr | So they got hit by the MongoDB "exploit" that made the rounds last month or so, and just now were forced to report it due to whatever timeline issues? | 13:22 | |
| timotimo | at least this time the physical addresses of folks weren't in the database | 13:23 | |
| i don't remember an exploit | |||
| DrForr | Freely accessible, I see. | ||
| timotimo | yes | ||
| and every voice message and profile photo was just put onto s3 without any further requirements for authentication | 13:24 | ||
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| SmokeMachine | m: say True ⁇ "OK" ‼︎ "NOK" # :( | 13:26 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Confused at <tmp>:1 ------> 3say True7⏏5 ⁇ "OK" ‼︎ "NOK" # :( expecting any of: infix infix stopper postfix statement end statement m… |
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| SmokeMachine | u: ⁇ | 13:27 | |
| unicodable6 | SmokeMachine, U+2047 DOUBLE QUESTION MARK [Po] (⁇) | ||
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| SmokeMachine | u: ‼︎ | 13:28 | |
| unicodable6 | SmokeMachine, U+203C DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK [Po] (‼) | ||
| SmokeMachine, U+FE0E VARIATION SELECTOR-15 [Mn] (◌︎) | |||
| SmokeMachine | m: say True ⁇ "OK" ‼ "NOK" | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Confused at <tmp>:1 ------> 3say True7⏏5 ⁇ "OK" ‼ "NOK" expecting any of: infix infix stopper postfix statement end statement modifier… |
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| ZzZombo | wait, what is the difference between a package and a module? | ||
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| SmokeMachine | shouldn't ⁇ ‼ work? | 13:30 | |
| timotimo | you can make it work | ||
| lizmat | .u ⁇ | 13:31 | |
| yoleaux | U+2047 DOUBLE QUESTION MARK [Po] (⁇) | ||
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| lizmat | .u ‼ | 13:31 | |
| yoleaux | U+203C DOUBLE EXCLAMATION MARK [Po] (‼) | ||
| lizmat | wow | ||
| SmokeMachine | timotimo: I can try... but should it work? | ||
| timotimo | why does it stop at double, though? why can't we have triple? | ||
| i mean we have triple period in … | |||
| also, it'd be lovely if we could have TRIPLE LATIN CAPITAL LETTER X for the bad-ass action movie | 13:32 | ||
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| DrForr | Tempted to s/.ass// there but will reserve as it was kinda fun. | 13:33 | |
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| timotimo | i was still a little child, very impressionable, when that movie came out | 13:33 | |
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| DrForr | I just saw the latest outing in the franchise last week. | 13:36 | |
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| DrForr | Must've missed at least one because I had no idea why they needed the deus ex at the end, but I guess there was at least one movie I missed. | 13:38 | |
| SmokeMachine | u: EXCLAMATION MARK | ||
| unicodable6 | SmokeMachine, U+0021 EXCLAMATION MARK [Po] (!) | ||
| SmokeMachine, U+00A1 INVERTED EXCLAMATION MARK [Po] (¡) | |||
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| unicodable6 | SmokeMachine, 22 characters in total: gist.github.com/00ab817a6ac83f34f1...ba996eb085 | 13:38 | |
| DrForr looks to see if there's a COMBINING RIGHT EXCLAMATION MARK... | 13:39 | ||
| .u ⃒ | 13:41 | ||
| yoleaux | U+20D2 COMBINING LONG VERTICAL LINE OVERLAY [Mn] (◌⃒) | ||
| DrForr | That's close but not there. | ||
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| ZzZombo | m: say 1234 ~~ all(* > 0,* %% 2==0,*-4==1230) | 13:42 | |
| camelia | False | ||
| ZzZombo | m: say 1234 ~~ all(* > 0,* % 2==0,*-4==1230) | ||
| camelia | True | ||
| ZzZombo | m: say 1234 ~~ all((* > 0,* % 2==0,*-4==1230)) | 13:43 | |
| camelia | True | ||
| ZzZombo | so is it deep? | ||
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| ZzZombo | m: say 1234 ~~ all() | 13:43 | |
| camelia | True | ||
| timotimo | all implements "single-arg rule" semantics, i think | 13:44 | |
| so you can do stuff like all(@a) > 4 | |||
| it's not "deep" though, it just iterates the outermost list | |||
| ZzZombo | hmm | 13:45 | |
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| ZzZombo | what if I have a list of conditions to pass, with nested lists to AND-group them, how would I do it nicely and concise? | 13:46 | |
| moritz | you can nest all() junctions inside any() junctions | 13:50 | |
| but in general, people tend to over-use junctions. Don't | |||
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| moritz | they are need for short boolean matchers, but if you base the design of your programs on junctions, it'll byte you | 13:51 | |
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| masak .oO( it'll nybble you ) | 13:54 | ||
| DrForr sets out the playtes. | |||
| Zoffix | m: class Foo { has $.bar = 72 }.perl.say | 13:56 | |
| camelia | Foo | ||
| Zoffix | I thought .perl included public attributes? | ||
| Oh | |||
| m: class Foo { has $.bar = 72 }.new.perl.say | |||
| camelia | Foo.new(bar => 72) | ||
| Zoffix | never mind | ||
| masak | in related news, I realized the other day that what I tried to do by overriding infix:<&&> (which didn't work), can instead be done by just using infix:<&> | ||
| moritz' advice still stands, though -- they are overused | |||
| perlpilot actually tends to under-use junctions | 13:57 | ||
| lizmat | masak: related to that, I was hoping for another type of signature that would make infix:<&&> a normal sub | ||
| masak | lizmat: reminds me of one of my early macros blog posts | 13:58 | |
| timotimo | masak: in my shooter game i'm using complex numbers for cartesian coordinates. would it be fine to you if i implemented "rotate 90 degrees around origin" by multiplying with i? :) | ||
| DrForr just converted a bunch of stuff in Perl6::Parser to use method sigil { Q{$} } just to get an attribute out of the data dump. | |||
| lizmat | in any case, that would require some new binding code | ||
| and a general slowdown :-( | |||
| timotimo | it's only a compile-time slowdown, though? | ||
| masak | lizmat: also, github.com/masak/007/issues/154 | ||
| Geth | specs: eccde7873a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | v6d.pod Reword requirem,ents for idea submitions |
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| masak | timotimo: I think so, yes. if you got any actual use out of the rotation. | 13:59 | |
| jnthn | lizmat: The "another type of signature" is actually "another type of sub", called a macro. ;-) | ||
| timotimo | masak: well ... not yet! but maybe in the future? | ||
| masak | jnthn: (but see the linked issue) | ||
| timotimo | also, i use .polar and .unpolar a bunch, even though in my case it's quite a bit of unnecessary overhead | ||
| lizmat | jnthn: I could live with that :-) | 14:00 | |
| masak | jnthn: tl;dr: there's a tendency to write macros as if they were subs with lazily-evaluated parameters. that "shortcoming" or thinko could *itself* be turned into a macro (trait), which code-walks the sub and turns it into the corresponding macro | ||
| issue #151 shows an example with infix:<//> (also a macro) | 14:01 | ||
| timotimo | is that an issue in 007? | 14:02 | |
| oh | |||
| now i see the link | |||
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| jnthn | masak: I'd expect it to be something like macro infix:<&&>($a, $b) { quasi { my \tmp = {{{$a}}}; if tmp { tmp } else { {{{$b}}} } } } | 14:02 | |
| Juerd | What are those group-hugged variables? | 14:03 | |
| masak | jnthn: aye | ||
| Juerd: unquotes | |||
| Juerd | Oh, macro specific? | ||
| timotimo | yup | ||
| masak | aye | ||
| Juerd | Thanks | ||
| timotimo | that's old-style macros, though :) | ||
| will new-style macros only differ by having an "@ expression" part inside the hugs? | 14:04 | ||
| masak | {{{Q::Term @ $a}}} | ||
| but Q::Term is the default, so you can shorten it to just {{{$a}}} | 14:05 | ||
| there's also a "cleaner" competing syntax that we're still evaluating: unquote(Q::Term @ $a) and unquote($a) | |||
| timotimo | oh, it's the other way around | ||
| masak | it is now, yes | ||
| for reasons similar to why we put the regex adverbs at the front of the regex | 14:06 | ||
| timotimo | that looks kind of like you could also write unquote($type @ $stuff) | ||
| which i suppose you can | |||
| masak | you mean with an actual variable $type? | ||
| timotimo | yup | ||
| masak | no, not unless it's a constant, and maybe not even then | 14:07 | |
| remember that this affects the *parser* | |||
| :) | |||
| timotimo | hm. so it'd have to be a big if/else | ||
| maybe you mean a different kind of variable there, though | |||
| i mean a variable that's inside the macro, not inside the quasiquote | |||
| so it essentially is a constant at the time of constructing the AST to use | |||
| masak | it needs to be a value known at parse time | 14:08 | |
| because the parser is going to go into some state based on the shape of the unquote | |||
| "always know what language you're parsing" | |||
| timotimo | right | ||
| perlpilot | .oO( Macros need a better vocabulary so that we can talk about macro-ish concepts without getting confused about timing or "level" ) |
14:09 | |
| masak | perlpilot: "early", "late" :) | ||
| timotimo | %) | ||
| essentially i was thinking of something at the same level as this: | 14:10 | ||
| if $type eq "term" { return quasi { unquote(Q::Term @ $foo) } } elif $type eq "statement" { return quasi { unquote(Q::Stmt @ $foo) } } elif $type eq "duck" { ... } | |||
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| Zoffix | m: sub foo { return ($^a, False) }; my ($a, $b) = foo Slip; dd [$a, $b] | 14:13 | |
| camelia | [Slip, Bool::False] | ||
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| Zoffix | Is there a way to call foo with some value that would affect what ends up being in $b? | 14:13 | |
| masak | correction: junctions didn't work. instead they byted me :P | 14:14 | |
| timotimo | m: sub foo { return ($^a, False) }; my ($a, $b) = foo Slip.new(); dd [$a, $b] | ||
| camelia | [Bool::False, Any] | ||
| timotimo | hm | ||
| Zoffix | m: sub foo { return ($^a, False) }; my ($a, $b) = foo Slip.new(42, 55); dd [$a, $b] | 14:15 | |
| camelia | [42, 55] | ||
| Zoffix | timotimo++ | ||
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| timotimo | i wrote "hm" because i thought it didn't work, but it did actually work | 14:15 | |
| so that's nice | |||
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| Zoffix | I'm guessing nqp::getcomp("perl6").eval does not get the lexical scope of the code it's run it? As in, I can safely use a dynamic variable and it won't see it? | 14:20 | |
| jnthn | Dyanmic variables use dynamic scope | ||
| timotimo | dynamic variables aren't lexically scoped, they are dynamically scoped | ||
| jnthn | So lexical scope is irrelevant | ||
| And yeah, it'll be seen | |||
| Zoffix | Ph | ||
| *Oh | |||
| jnthn | m: sub foo() { my $*a = 42; bar() }; sub bar() { EVAL 'say $*a' }; foo | 14:21 | |
| camelia | 42 | ||
| Zoffix | OK, lexical variables aren't seen at least. | ||
| jnthn | Right, you have to arrnage specially for lexicals via outer_ctx | ||
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| Zoffix | Oh, so you still can reach them from within the evaled code? | 14:21 | |
| timotimo | only if you supply the outer_ctx to EVAL | 14:22 | |
| Zoffix | Ah | ||
| OK | |||
| Thanks | |||
| SmokeMachine | timotimo: it passed on the tests... but im sure that's not the best way to do it: github.com/FCO/rakudo/commit/aeaa7...34e551c14d | ||
| timotimo | huh, that <!before '??'> looks suspicious | 14:23 | |
| oh, that's for ???, not for ?? | |||
| i'd throw out the ⁇ there unless you want to make ??? spell-able as ?⁇ | 14:24 | ||
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| timotimo | and i think the dupprefix for ⁇ is not an issue | 14:24 | |
| Zoffix | You're add ⁇ as Mexican version of ?? !! ? | ||
| *adding | |||
| timotimo | is "mexican" the opposite of "texas" now? | ||
| Zoffix | Yes :) | 14:25 | |
| SmokeMachine | Zoffix: why mexican? | ||
| hum! | |||
| Zoffix | Because it's opposite of Texas | ||
| duh :) | |||
| huf | but surely texas is basically mexico | ||
| timotimo | now do we want to allow a texmex for that? | ||
| lizmat | hmmm..... isn't this 6.d worthy ? | ||
| Zoffix | lizmat: how come? I don't think it'd break any of 6.c-errata tests. | 14:26 | |
| lizmat | I seem to recall a discussion about ≥ and friends ? | ||
| Zoffix | My recollection of tha tdiscussion is TimToady wanting to make it possible for users to declare such ops first. | ||
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| lizmat | I mean, why don't we have ≥ and ⪬ as well ? | 14:26 | |
| brrt | it does rather shaft things into the namespace of the user, imho | 14:27 | |
| if we are to do that, it'd be very nice to collect all these changes together and do it at one go | |||
| Zoffix | Agreed. | ||
| timotimo | do we want to put some wording into rakudobrew's readme to suggest to people that they probably don't want this? | 14:28 | |
| Zoffix | lizmat: I doubt I'd find it in logs, but I fuzzily remember TimToady wanted to make it possible for users to declare such ops and then we'd just add an op in SETTING | ||
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| Zoffix | timotimo: yes | 14:30 | |
| maybe even some message on installation or something. | 14:31 | ||
| ZzZombo | m: say $x for (1,2,3)->$x | 14:32 | |
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Variable '$x' is not declared at <tmp>:1 ------> 3say 7⏏5$x for (1,2,3)->$x |
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| ZzZombo | :( | ||
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| SmokeMachine | so, shouldn't I PR the mexican version of ?? !! ? | 14:32 | |
| timotimo | ZzZombo: write a slang to make that work, i guess? | ||
| the reason why you can use -> with for is because for just takes a block | |||
| Zoffix | SmokeMachine: I'd want to hear TimToady's opinion on the matter first. | ||
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| timotimo | and blocks can start with -> if they want to have a signature | 14:32 | |
| but also: | 14:33 | ||
| you can't use $x before it's declared | |||
| so the code would have to be "say my $x for (1,2,3)->$x" | |||
| SmokeMachine | Zoffix: ok... Ill save that on my repo... :) | ||
| Zoffix | SmokeMachine: it's easy to shove all sorts of weird operators because they look cute to you on IRC, but the amount of people who'll actually use them is pretty small, I'd think. | ||
| Zoffix still has nightmares from U+2212 minus | 14:34 | ||
| It's not even entirely fixed. | |||
| m: printf '%−2s', 'foo' | |||
| camelia | Directive −2s is not valid in sprintf format sequence %−2s |
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| Zoffix | ^ and fixing that would bleed it into nqp | ||
| SmokeMachine | Zoffix: probably just me... (just because "I am writing it") | ||
| Zoffix | well, proper way of fixing it would | ||
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| Zoffix | I highly doubt there's any programming shop with more than 3 people who'd allow their programmers to use Mexican operators. | 14:36 | |
| [Coke] | any sixers going to the NY pm meeting on 3/14 ? | 14:37 | |
| SmokeMachine | timotimo: did you mean this? github.com/FCO/rakudo/commit/e9f27...ba3cd086c1 it still works and the tests are passing... | 14:38 | |
| ZzZombo | m: say :a(123) | ||
| camelia | Unexpected named argument 'a' passed in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | m: say (:a(123)) | 14:39 | |
| camelia | a => 123 | ||
| SmokeMachine | m: say 'a' => 123 | ||
| camelia | a => 123 | ||
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| Zoffix | m: say 123 R=> 'a' | 14:40 | |
| camelia | a => 123 | ||
| Zoffix | m: say [=>] 'a', 123 | ||
| camelia | a => 123 | ||
| masak | m: my $x = "a"; $x =>= 123; say $x | 14:41 | |
| camelia | Potential difficulties: Useless use of =>= in sink context at <tmp>:1 ------> 3my $x = "a"; $x 7⏏5=>= 123; say $x a => 123 |
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| masak | TimToady: ^ what do you think about the above "useless use"? | 14:42 | |
| (seems discriminating to the mutating-cons crowd) :P | |||
| jnthn | I'd have somewhat expecting that to complain it was too fiddly :) | 14:44 | |
| masak | that was my expectation too! | ||
| but given that it works, I'm instead annoyed that it complains :P | |||
| CIAvash[m] | lizmat: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-01-09#i_11859391 the issue is that if users define those operators, the chaining won't work | ||
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| Zoffix | huggable: ≥ :is: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-01-09#i_11859391 | 14:45 | |
| huggable | Zoffix, Added ≥ as irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2016-01-09#i_11859391 | ||
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| timotimo | SmokeMachine: i think that's correct, but i probably haven't looked closely enough | 14:49 | |
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| SmokeMachine | timotimo: :) | 14:51 | |
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| Zoffix | With so many people using rakudobrew, maybe we should make it better instead? | 14:52 | |
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| [Coke] | that's always an option, sure. | 14:54 | |
| Zoffix | defaulting to latest release instead of HEAD by default and shimming zef to run `rakudobrew rehash` will probably fix a lot of problems users are currently experiencing | 14:55 | |
| timotimo | also: ugh, not being able to "which" the wrapper scripts | 14:56 | |
| Zoffix | $ which perl6 | ||
| /home/zoffix/.rakudobrew/bin/perl6 | |||
| timotimo | that totally helps. not. | ||
| Zoffix | But that is where the wrapper script is? :S | 14:57 | |
| timotimo | okay | ||
| you can't which "through" the wrapper scripts | |||
| Zoffix | to what end? | ||
| timotimo | to the end of "wtf how do i get at the source code of what it's running when i invoke this command?" | ||
| Zoffix | I guess the sourcecode when I open the file... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ | 14:58 | |
| timotimo | huh? | 14:59 | |
| oh, rakudobrew does have a which and a whence command though | |||
| Zoffix | s/guess/get/; | 15:00 | |
| timotimo | when i open the files i get rakudobrew's source code | ||
| masak | colomon++ # news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13753894 | 15:01 | |
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| ZzZombo | my @children=create xx (0..2).pick; #Undeclared routine: xx used | 15:06 | |
| create is a sub | 15:07 | ||
| help, please | |||
| Zoffix | ZzZombo: create() | ||
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| ZzZombo | doesn't change anything | 15:08 | |
| Zoffix | u lie | ||
| ZzZombo | no | ||
| Zoffix | m: sub create {rand}; my @children=create xx (0..2).pick; | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Undeclared routine: xx used at line 1 |
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| Zoffix | m: sub create {rand}; my @children=create() xx (0..2).pick; | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
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| ZzZombo | damn, forgot to hit 'save' the other time. | 15:15 | |
| Zoffix | :) | ||
| ZzZombo | but! | ||
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| ZzZombo | "returns five distinct arrays (but with the same content each time), and | 15:15 | |
| rand xx 3" | |||
| no () | 15:16 | ||
| Zoffix | ZzZombo: because rand is a term | ||
| ZzZombo | huh | ||
| m: rand | |||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| ZzZombo | m: say rand | ||
| camelia | 0.153238475468308 | ||
| Zoffix | m: sub term:<create> {rand}; my @children=create xx (0..2).pick; | ||
| camelia | ( no output ) | ||
| lucasb | it's thunking | ||
| ZzZombo | can you remind me how do you mix-in a role into a variable? My array refuses to comply :( | 15:17 | |
| gregf_ | *finally Zoffix is back* | ||
| Zoffix | ZzZombo: but | ||
| lucasb | $var does Role ? | ||
|
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| Zoffix | Oh wait, yeah, does. but copies | 15:18 | |
| ZzZombo | m: my @a but role{ method duh { die 'Duh | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Whitespace required after keyword 'role' at <tmp>:1 ------> 3my @a but role7⏏5{ method duh { die 'Duh Unable to parse expression in single quotes; couldn't find final "'" at <tmp>:1 ------> 3my @a but role{ method d… |
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| ZzZombo | m: my @a but role{ method duh { die 'Duh'}};@a.duh | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Whitespace required after keyword 'role' at <tmp>:1 ------> 3my @a but role7⏏5{ method duh { die 'Duh'}};@a.duh |
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| ZzZombo | m: my @a but role { method duh { die 'Duh'}};@a.duh | 15:18 | |
| camelia | No such method 'duh' for invocant of type 'Array' in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | see | 15:18 | |
| I can't make it | |||
| m: my @a does role { method duh { die 'Duh'}};@a.duh | |||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Invalid typename 'role' at <tmp>:1 ------> 3my @a does role7⏏5 { method duh { die 'Duh'}};@a.duh |
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| Zoffix | m: my @a.^mixin: role { method duh { die "Duh"}}; @a.duh | 15:19 | |
| camelia | Duh in method duh at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
||
| ZzZombo | Thanks! | ||
| Zoffix | m: my @a; @a does role { method duh { die "Duh"}}; @a.duh | ||
| camelia | Duh in method duh at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| Zoffix | ZzZombo: as for the () thing. It parses your call as create(xx (0..2).pick) so `xx` ends up being a term instead of the operator so it complains when it can't find it. Terms can't take args, so rand xx 5 is not ambiguouis | 15:20 | |
| And exactly why rand was made a term (despite there being a proper sub under the hood for it) | |||
| s: &rand | 15:21 | ||
| SourceBaby | Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/05ad...um.pm#L486 | ||
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| Zoffix | .oO( why not just make sub term:<rand> {...} ) |
15:21 | |
| m: sub term:<foo> { 42 }; say foo() | 15:22 | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Undeclared routine: foo used at line 1 |
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| Zoffix | I guess so it could complain at people. | 15:23 | |
| m: say rand() | |||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unsupported use of rand(); in Perl 6 please use rand at <tmp>:1 ------> 3say rand7⏏5() |
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| lucasb | m: say &rand() # just testing | ||
| camelia | 0.60544234643555 | ||
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| [Coke] | u: - | 15:29 | |
| unicodable6 | [Coke], U+0000 <control-0000> [Cc] (control character) | ||
| [Coke], U+0001 <control-0001> [Cc] (control character) | |||
| [Coke], 5694 characters in total: gist.github.com/343bb2c24d80ebaf26...44376b3e0d | |||
| [Coke] | ... I did not expect that. | ||
| ooooh. | 15:30 | ||
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| [Coke] | oops. | 15:30 | |
| timotimo | haha :) | ||
| you meant to ask for "what is this" | |||
| instead you got "which characters have this in their name" | |||
| Zoffix | m: '-'.uniname.say | ||
| camelia | HYPHEN-MINUS | ||
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| Zoffix | .u - | 15:31 | |
| yoleaux | U+002D HYPHEN-MINUS [Pd] (-) | ||
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| ZzZombo | I'm about to kill something | 15:32 | |
| Zoffix | Lik what? | 15:33 | |
| ZzZombo | m: role R[$x is copy='Die'] { sub Die{ die 'Ded'}};my $a does R;$a.Die | ||
| camelia | No such method 'Die' for invocant of type 'Scalar+{R}' in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| timotimo | lik the bread? | ||
| ZzZombo | m: role R[$x is copy='Die'] { sub Die{ die 'Ded'}};my $a;$a does R;$a.Die | 15:34 | |
| camelia | Cannot use 'does' operator with a type object. in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | m: role R[$x is copy='Die'] { sub Die{ die 'Ded'}};my $a=123;$a does R;$a.Die | ||
| camelia | No such method 'Die' for invocant of type 'Int+{R}' in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| ZzZombo | m: role R[$x is copy='Die'] { method Die{ die 'Ded'}};my $a=123;$a does R;$a.Die | ||
| camelia | Ded in method Die at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| timotimo | why do you have "sub Die" but try to call a method die? | ||
| ZzZombo | m: role R[$x is copy=Nil] { method Die{ die 'Ded'}};my $a=123;$a does R;$a.Die | ||
| camelia | Ded in method Die at <tmp> line 1 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| timotimo | looks like it works perfectly fine | 15:34 | |
| ZzZombo | similar code just killed my laptop. | 15:35 | |
| Zoffix | haha :) | ||
| m: role R[$x is copy] { method Die { $x.Die } }; my $a=123; $a does R[$a]; $a.Die | 15:36 | ||
| camelia | (timeout) | ||
| ZzZombo | yea, keeps on hanging | ||
| Zoffix | Well, what's the code? | 15:37 | |
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| timotimo | stuff that "kills my laptop" is probably doing infinite recursion | 15:37 | |
| yeah | 15:38 | ||
| test { test }; test gives me a laggy computer for three seconds | |||
| and my swap filled up a whole bunch | |||
| can't kill it. probably because it's doing a coredump right now? | 15:39 | ||
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| ZzZombo | silly that Windows doesn't prevent one application from clogging up all resources. | 15:41 | |
| timotimo | there must be a way | ||
| windows actually has many features you'd wish it had. but they are usually very unobvious to find | |||
| which is weird because GUI is all about discoverability of functionality | |||
| brrt | har har har har har har har har har | ||
| timotimo | maybe this discoverability benefit really only goes skin-deep | 15:42 | |
| Zoffix | C'mon, if it were easy to discover the sales of Windows books would plummet! | ||
| ZzZombo | Zoffix: nevermind, I rewrote eveything just because it was too bloated. | 15:43 | |
| Zoffix | cool | ||
| ZzZombo | Now I'm not sure if .TWEAK is supposed to be a method, not a submethod. | ||
| timotimo | btw, you weren't applying the role R to the variable, but to the variable's contents | ||
| it's supposed to be a submethod | |||
| just like BUILD | 15:44 | ||
| are you having trouble with it? | |||
| ZzZombo | "TWEAK After the BUILD methods have been called, methods named TWEAK are called, if they exist, again with all the named arguments that were passed to new." | ||
| timotimo | oh, is that on docs.perl6.org? | ||
| ZzZombo | Yea | ||
| timotimo | that wants fixed | 15:45 | |
| actually | |||
| it uses find_method to find TWEAK methods | |||
| m: class Test { method TWEAK { say "tweaking" } }; class B is Test {}; class C is B {}; class D is C {}; D.new() | 15:46 | ||
| camelia | tweaking tweaking tweaking tweaking |
||
| timotimo | m: class Test { submethod TWEAK { say "tweaking" } }; class B is Test {}; class C is B {}; class D is C {}; D.new() | ||
| camelia | tweaking | ||
| lucasb | well, both BUILD and TWEAK *can* be methods, and it wil work, but it'll also get inherited by subclasses, no? | ||
| timotimo | m: class Test { method TWEAK { say "tweaking" } }; class B is Test { method TWEAK { say "tweaking B" }}; class C is B {}; class D is C {}; D.new() | ||
| camelia | tweaking tweaking B tweaking B tweaking B |
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| timotimo | correct | 15:46 | |
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| ZzZombo | m: my @a;@a does role { multi method elems { say 'ahaha';-1} };say @a+0 | 15:48 | |
| camelia | ahaha -1 |
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| Zoffix | heh | 15:49 | |
| ZzZombo | but | ||
| Zoffix finds the conversation that explains why moritz is changing the logo. | |||
| ZzZombo | "A method defined directly in a class will always override definitions from applied roles or from inherited classes." | ||
| another lie on the Internet? | 15:50 | ||
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| Zoffix | ZzZombo: why a lie? | 15:50 | |
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| ZzZombo | because the role has just overridden method that was declared in (Array), no? | 15:51 | |
| Zoffix | ZzZombo: is it declared in Array? | ||
| ZzZombo | where else? | ||
| lucasb | I think there's a difference between mixing a role into a class and into a object | ||
| timotimo | that's the difference between "class Array does MyRole { ... }" and "$foo but MyRole" | ||
| ZzZombo | I have no idea, but seems like it should | ||
| lucasb | class C does R {} works like you stated | ||
| $x does R works the other way around | 15:52 | ||
| timotimo | otherwise roles would be pretty much useless :) | ||
| ZzZombo | m: my @a;@a but role { multi method elems { say 'ahaha';-1} };say @a+0 | ||
| camelia | 0 | ||
| Zoffix | you're throwing away your mixed in version | ||
| s: [], 'elems', \() | 15:53 | ||
| SourceBaby | Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7f92...st.pm#L455 | ||
| Zoffix | Surprise! :) | ||
| ZzZombo | m: my @a;@a=@a but role { multi method elems { say 'ahaha';-1} };say @a+0 | ||
| camelia | 0 | ||
| ZzZombo | you mean that ^? | ||
| Zoffix | Nope | ||
| timotimo | m: my @a;@a := @a but role { multi method elems { say 'ahaha';-1} };say @a+0 | 15:54 | |
| camelia | ahaha -1 |
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| timotimo | your code was throwing away the @a variant with the role applied to it immediately | ||
| because assigning to an array will iterate when storing | |||
| ZzZombo | ah | 15:55 | |
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| timotimo | can you give a link to the sentence from the docs you quoted? | 15:55 | |
| ZzZombo | docs.perl6.org/syntax/role | ||
| timotimo | thanks | 15:56 | |
| ZzZombo | in "Pecking order" | ||
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| timotimo | right, just found it | 15:57 | |
| the thing is, on that page there wasn't yet any mention of the infix operator "does" or "but" | |||
| only the stuff you can put into your class declaration | |||
| Zoffix | m: (() but role { multi method elems($ where ::?ROLE:) { say "ahaha";-1} }).elems.say | 15:58 | |
| camelia | 0 | ||
| Zoffix | Wonder why the method doesn't get chosen... | ||
| timotimo | does ::?ROLE work properly? | ||
| Zoffix | nope | ||
| Oh, | |||
| I tried with $?ROLE too... both output the name when I use them in a method | 15:59 | ||
| timotimo | m: (() but role { multi method elems($ where { say ::?ROLE; $_ ~~ ::?ROLE: }) { say "ahaha";-1} }).elems.say | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unexpected closing bracket at <tmp>:1 ------> 3ms($ where { say ::?ROLE; $_ ~~ ::?ROLE:7⏏5 }) { say "ahaha";-1} }).elems.say |
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| Zoffix | m: role { method x { say ::?ROLE } }.x | ||
| camelia | (<anon|41591216>) | ||
| timotimo | m: (() but role { multi method elems($ where { say ::?ROLE; $_ ~~ ::?ROLE }:) { say "ahaha";-1} }).elems.say | ||
| camelia | 0 | ||
| timotimo | doesn't try it, apparently | ||
| Zoffix | Oh, doh | ||
| m: (() but role { multi method elems(List:D $ where ::?ROLE:) { say "ahaha";-1} }).elems.say | |||
| camelia | ahaha -1 |
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| IOninja | hmmm... | 16:22 | |
| IOninja is about to pessimise biog... :o | |||
| *big | |||
| timotimo | we have a logic problem that requires something we have to be less optimal? | 16:23 | |
| IOninja | IO::Path caches .e and then tries to keep state of it, but that makes the assumption nothing changes on the filesystem | ||
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| IOninja | m: start { sleep 1; "/tmp/foo42".IO.spurt: "meow"; say "done creating file!" }; my $p = "/tmp/foo42".IO; say $p.e; sleep 2; say $p.e | 16:24 | |
| camelia | False done creating file! False |
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| IOninja | Well, I'll pessimize it right now as a fix for RT#130889 and then think harder if stuff can be improved | 16:25 | |
| synopsebot6 | Link: rt.perl.org/rt3//Public/Bug/Displa...?id=130889 | ||
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| IOninja | would be handy to have `make perftest` | 16:29 | |
| Like a spectest that would complain if your changes are way slower than expected :P | 16:30 | ||
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| perlpilot | IOninja: It would be interesting if you could get timings from each test hat could be compared over many runs. | 16:35 | |
| *that | |||
| IOninja | Should be pretty trivial, considering we've got PERL6_TEST_TIMES var | 16:37 | |
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| araraloren | Anyone help me ? A problem about nativecall : gist.github.com/araraloren/f9a647a...593df2fec9 | 16:37 | |
| IOninja | I wasn't paying attention but I thought I saw someone mention callbacks with NativeCall were problematic/NYI | 16:40 | |
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| araraloren | Oh . | 16:42 | |
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| jnthn | Seems you can't currently use a native function directly as the callback | 16:42 | |
| Just wrap it up in a block that calls it | 16:43 | ||
| araraloren | jnthn, thanks, I will try it. | ||
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| araraloren | It works just fine, not so bad .. | 16:53 | |
| Night.. | |||
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| timotimo | until further notice, you can use "dlsym" to get the pointer value for the callback and have a second sub for setint (with a different name that you can fix up with 'is symbol') that just takes a pointer-sized int as second arg | 16:59 | |
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| timotimo | a bit surprising that it took so long until someone stumbled upon this use-case | 17:01 | |
| m: use NativeCall; nativecast(&cb(--> int32), Pointer.new(0x12345))() | |||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Unable to parse expression in argument list; couldn't find final ')' at <tmp>:1 ------> 3use NativeCall; nativecast(&cb(7⏏5--> int32), Pointer.new(0x12345))() expecting any of: a… |
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| timotimo | m: use NativeCall; nativecast(&cb:(--> int32), Pointer.new(0x12345))() | ||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> You can't adverb at <tmp>:1 ------> 3e NativeCall; nativecast(&cb:(--> int32)7⏏5, Pointer.new(0x12345))() |
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| timotimo | m: use NativeCall; nativecast(Callable, Pointer.new(0x12345))() | 17:02 | |
| camelia | Internal error: unhandled target type in sub nativecast at /home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-1/share/perl6/sources/24DD121B5B4774C04A7084827BFAD92199756E03 (NativeCall) line 411 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| robertle | anyone know a http server component that actually reads the request body? as in post/put? | 17:03 | |
| timotimo | i seem to recall there's at least one that gives you a filehandle-like that you can read the body from | 17:04 | |
| might be hallucinating, though | |||
| robertle | that would be awesome actually, I think I prefer that over a buffer or string | ||
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| timotimo | oh, damn | 17:07 | |
| i was thinking of HTTP::Server::Async | |||
| but it gives you the data as a Buf | |||
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| IOninja | Where are our stats for the sites? I wanna see how many unique users we get on docs.perl6.org a year | 17:09 | |
| timotimo | ISTR we had a visitors running somewhere | ||
| visitors is certainly installed | 17:10 | ||
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| moritz | IOninja: www.p6c.org/stats/doc.perl6.org | 17:11 | |
| timotimo | aha! | ||
| IOninja | Thanks | ||
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| moritz | looks like we had between 21k and 35k visitors a month | 17:11 | |
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| timotimo | where liveth a cron job for this? | 17:12 | |
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| timotimo | october 07 is a really hot day | 17:12 | |
| localhost:1313/post/2016-10-19-Perl...A%84Block/ | 17:13 | ||
| IOninja | m: say 11543/11543 | ||
| camelia | 1 | ||
| timotimo | i wonder who got referred to the docs this way :D | ||
| moritz | timotimo: root's crontab | ||
| timotimo | fantastic, thanks | ||
| IOninja | wtf | ||
| oh | |||
| timotimo | copy-pasto | ||
| IOninja | copy-paste fail :P | ||
| m: say 31290/11543 | |||
| camelia | 2.710734 | ||
| IOninja | So our users grown 2.7x in a year | 17:14 | |
| timotimo | the visitors we're using really wants to have a few more things listed as spiders | ||
| IOninja | .oO( there are lies, damned lies, and... ) |
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| timotimo | baiduspider alone is 52k visits | ||
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| timotimo | "visitors" is *really* difficult to google stuff for | 17:16 | |
| like "has someone forked visitors and built a more comprehensive list of bots?" | |||
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| IOninja | m: =begin pod=head2 meowsfoos=end podsay $=pod[0].contents[1] | 17:19 | |
| camelia | Pod::Block::Para foos |
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| IOninja | There's no line info for where the pod block came from, is there? | ||
| [Coke] | IOninja: don't believe so, nope. | ||
| IOninja | Ah.. | 17:20 | |
| [Coke] | Was looking for it as part of the doc examples work, didn't find it | ||
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| IOninja | I was gonna say github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1212 is easy to do, until I remembered htmlify.p6 doesn't actually parse all the pod files | 17:20 | |
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| [Coke] | it's not just passthrough pod parsing, no | 17:21 | |
| it's extracted, then mined, then put back together elsewise. | |||
| [Coke] tags that "wishlist" | 17:23 | ||
| Geth | doc: 3ed1803f11 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6 Add note on where-clause side-effects rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130886 |
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| [Coke] | IOninja: while I'd love to make it easier for people, I think opening an issue as as simple as that's going to get for now. | 17:26 | |
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| IOninja | It's easy to learn how to find what to edit tho | 17:27 | |
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| timotimo | the damn perl6 -e 'sub test { test }; test' thing isn't going away >_< | 17:40 | |
| can't ctrl-c it, can't ctrl-\ it, doesn't show up in htop ... | |||
| IOninja | lol | ||
| glad I didn't run it then, when I had the temptation | |||
| $ ./perl6 -e 'sub test { test }; test' | 17:42 | ||
| Killed | |||
| :) ♥ Debian | |||
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| IOninja | I see it in htop too | 17:42 | |
| chewed through 24GB of RAM in 7 seconds | 17:43 | ||
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| IOninja | Ah no, in 22 seconds | 17:43 | |
| I can CTRL+C it too. What OS are you on? | 17:44 | ||
| timotimo | this is fedora with fish | ||
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| gregf_ | wonders why one would want to shoot themselves in the foot :) | 17:46 | |
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| sena_kun | on a gentoo with fish it is totally possible to kill | 17:47 | |
| with Ctrl-C or Ctrl-Z | 17:48 | ||
| IOninja | gregf_: sometimes the shooting may be accidental: | 17:49 | |
| m: Numeric.new + 42 | |||
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| camelia | WARNINGS for <tmp>: Useless use of "+" in expression ".new + 42" in sink context (line 1) MoarVM panic: Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 131072 bytes |
17:49 | |
| IOninja | the sub test thing ^ behaves exactly the same on my box. Just nomming through RAM | ||
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| IOninja | Is Suman Khanal in channel? They keep pinging and mentioning me on Twitter and it's starting to get a bit annoying. Mostly because half the time I don't understand why the mention was made... | 18:21 | |
| Like this one: twitter.com/suman12029/status/8366...6344576000 I don't understand. Do I need to do something? | |||
| IOninja tries making a polite request to stop | 18:24 | ||
| timotimo | that mention was probably "hey look perl6devs, they put a perl6 course on their wishlist!" | ||
| IOninja | Feels like it. Gonna tell them to come announce stuff like that over here. | 18:25 | |
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| IOninja is amused Freenode never bothered to replace default Apache page irc.freenode.net/#perl6 | 18:32 | ||
| You'd figure that would redirect to the webchat thing | |||
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| DrForr | swcarpentry is an aggregator site for programming lessons. All I think they've got to do is add something from the tutorial page. | 18:39 | |
| timotimo | why does irc.freenode.net even have a web server on it in the first place? | ||
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| IOninja | 'cause they have a website, I guess freenode.net | 18:42 | |
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| IOninja | m: say "Rakudo has seen an average of {round 6217/(Date.today - Date.new("2015-07-26"))} commits per day for the past year and a half" | 19:12 | |
| camelia | Rakudo has seen an average of 11 commits per day for the past year and a half | ||
| IOninja | pretty good | ||
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| timotimo | oh what?! amazon s3 is down?! | 19:27 | |
| arnsholt | Maybe they checked in the SHA-1 colliding PDFs into their SVN repo? | 19:28 | |
| That was the most hilarious thing about that, TBH | |||
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| IOninja | timotimo: so should 130886 be closed? (it's the where-clause one) | 19:30 | |
| timotimo | i think so, but i wanted to wait for others to comment ... maybe | 19:31 | |
| IOninja | OK | ||
| IOninja has no comments... | |||
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| IOninja | c: 2017.02 say "hi" | 19:40 | |
| committable6 | IOninja, ¦«2017.02»: Cannot find this revision (did you mean “2017.01”?) | ||
| IOninja | AlexDaniel: ^ seems again it's buggy with the tags | ||
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| TimToady | m: #|meowssub x { }; say &x.WHY | 20:11 | |
| camelia | Nil | ||
| TimToady | m: #|{meows}sub x { }; say &x.WHY | ||
| camelia | meows | ||
| TimToady | apparently only the #|{} variant is implemented | ||
| timotimo: ^^ | |||
| well, and Zoffix | 20:12 | ||
| IOninja | :) | ||
| TimToady | but yeah, #= is only for after, just as #| is only for before | 20:13 | |
| IOninja | Reminder to test writers: after your test in, be sure to close the ticket its for (or find someone with perms to close tickets and ask them to close it). | 20:15 | |
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| IOninja | It's thread-safe to do a my @stuff; react { whenever ... { @stuff.push: 42 } }; right? 'cause whenever uses .act on supply? | 20:19 | |
| lizmat | IOninja: yes, that's the idea I think :-) | 20:21 | |
| IOninja | Thanks. | ||
| jnthn | Yes, that is safe | 20:23 | |
| It doesn't actually use .act on the Supply, that wouldn't be sufficient | |||
| The concurrency control is across the whole react block | |||
| IOninja | Ah cool | ||
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| ajr_ | The failure to make Rakudo* on a Pi (3) appears to be when it's trying to make CORE.setting.moarvm (in the Stage parse | 20:40 | |
| I think it's running out of memory (using at least 703 of 750MB available) | 20:41 | ||
| Is there any way to limit the memory usage of this process? | |||
| IOninja | It uses about 1.2-1.4GB to build. | ||
| Make lots of swap, if there's a way? | |||
| buggable: tag TESTNEEDED | 20:43 | ||
| buggable | IOninja, There are 22 tickets tagged with TESTNEEDED; See perl6.fail/t/TESTNEEDED for details | ||
| IOninja | ^^^^^^^ lots of easy tasks if you want to contribute. Write tests to github.com/perl6/roast/ to test the fixed bugs. Tests for texttual content of error messages (if you have to write such) should go to github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/nom/t/05-messages REPL tests are usually placed in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...udo/repl.t | 20:45 | |
| IOninja relocates | 20:46 | ||
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| ajr_ | IOninja - I've found some information on extending the swap space, so I'll try that later and report results tomorrow. | 20:57 | |
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| cale2 | off topic question: why is packaging and importing so confusing in python? | 21:37 | |
| yoleaux | 25 Feb 2017 17:53Z <IOninja> cale2: note that since you have a commit bit in perl6 repos, any time you use online editor to make a PR you create a branch in the repo; once PR is processed, don't forget to use the "Delete branch" button. I see there's a couple of `WildYorkies-patch-` branches in perl6/doc. Would you mind deleting them if they were merged/closed already? | ||
| moritz | cale2: I find importing rather intuitive in python; how it locates modules/packages is the confusing part, IMHO | 21:38 | |
| cale2 | __init__ files and all that | 21:39 | |
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| moritz | right | 21:39 | |
| there's two way to get to a foo, foo.py and foo/__init__.py | |||
| cale2 | idk, i've read docs and tutorials. But it's still easier to just keep everything in the same directory and reference them that way haha | 21:40 | |
| so many relative import errors otherwise | 21:41 | ||
| moritz | speaking of off-topic stuff: opensource.com/article/17/2/mysql-8-coming mysql gets transactional DDL, it seems. Yay! | 21:43 | |
| and my hopefully final question for the night: can any of you recommend some tech publishers? | 21:44 | ||
| besides the obvious ones (O'Reilly, Addison Wesley) | |||
| lizmat | Wrox ? | ||
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| lizmat | pragprog.com ? | 21:46 | |
| moritz | lizmat: never heard of wrox, thanks | ||
| pragprog is on my list, as well as Packt and Apress | |||
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| smls | m: say ([o] {$_ + 1} xx 3)(5) | 21:59 | |
| camelia | 8 | ||
| smls | m: say ([o] {$_ xx 3} xx 3)(5) | ||
| camelia | Too many positionals passed; expected 0 or 1 arguments but got 3 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| smls | Does anyone know why that fails? ^^ | ||
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| smls | m: say ({$_ x 2} o {$_ x 2} o {$_ x 2})(5) | 22:01 | |
| camelia | 55555555 | ||
| smls | m: say ({$_ xx 2} o {$_ xx 2} o {$_ xx 2})(5) | ||
| camelia | Too many positionals passed; expected 0 or 1 arguments but got 2 in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| smls | Something about the xx operator it seems... | 22:02 | |
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| IOninja | smls: what did you expect it to do? The m: say ([o] {$_ xx 3} xx 3)(5) | 22:04 | |
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| IOninja is somewhat glad such monstrocities fail... | 22:05 | ||
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| moritz | $_ xx 2 returns two elements, so you call the next one in the chain with two arguments instead of one | 22:05 | |
| hence the error | |||
| IOninja | Ah | 22:06 | |
| smls | IOninja: Create a 3x3x3 List filled with 5's | ||
| moritz: Why is the next one called with two arguments instead of one List argument? | 22:07 | ||
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| smls | does the `o` operator automatically interpolate lists into the argument list? | 22:07 | |
| IOninja | smls: if the .count of the callable is more than one, then yes | 22:08 | |
| cale2 | moritz: No Starch Press | ||
| IOninja | Hm.. | ||
| smls | m: say {$_ xx 2}.count | ||
| camelia | 1 | ||
| IOninja | Yeah... | ||
| m: dd ({$_ xx 3} xx 3)(5) | 22:09 | ||
| camelia | Invocant requires a type object of type List, but an object instance was passed. Did you forget a 'multi'? in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1 |
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| IOninja | m: dd ({$_ xx 3} xx 3)».(5) | 22:10 | |
| camelia | ((5, 5, 5), (5, 5, 5), (5, 5, 5)) | ||
| IOninja | s: &infix:<o> | 22:11 | |
| SourceBaby | IOninja, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/7966...rs.pm#L714 | ||
| smls | m: say ({$_ xx 2} o {$_ xx 2}).count; # Possibly interesting... | 22:12 | |
| camelia | Inf | ||
| IOninja | s: &infix:<[o]> | ||
| SourceBaby | IOninja, Something's wrong: ERR: ===SORRY!=== Error while compiling -eUndeclared routine: infix:<[o]> used at line 6. Did you mean 'infix:<o>', 'infix:<+|>', 'infix:<∖>'? | ||
| IOninja | oohhh | ||
| cale2 | Why do the best programming communities use the most esoteric and complex languages? | ||
| IOninja | m: -> | {}.count.say | ||
| camelia | Inf | ||
| IOninja | That's why | ||
| smls++ | |||
| smls | Thats why it works with just two copies of the block chained with o | 22:13 | |
| But not with 3 or more | |||
| IOninja | smls: the second combination's callables have > 1 count, so the lists get slipped in | ||
| smls | Shouldn't `o` return something with the same .count as its left argument? | 22:14 | |
| IOninja | dunno | 22:15 | |
| Not really. Why the left argument? Currently the left arg can return whatever it wants. | 22:16 | ||
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| smls | Yeah, I mean the right argument (which gets the input first) | 22:17 | |
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| IOninja | Wonder how that would work with multies, tho. | 22:17 | |
| m: multi x ($) {}; multi x($, $) {}; &x.count.say | 22:18 | ||
| camelia | Inf | ||
| IOninja | :S | ||
| Oh, right, you need to call it on individual multi. | |||
| So yeah, how'd you pick which can candidate to take the .count from | 22:19 | ||
| smls | Well if something (multi or otherwise) already has count=Inf, then the result of using it as the right argument of `o` would also have count=Inf | 22:21 | |
| But chaining two count=1 functions and getting count=Inf, seems LTA | |||
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| IOninja | fair enough | 22:21 | |
| smls | Although you're right that the given example is a monstrosity... :) | 22:22 | |
| I was trying to make something like ->\n{[o]({$_ xx n}xx n)(n)} work for this code golf: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/111728/14880 | |||
| But there are more legit cases where this could matter, like chaining two simple functions with `o` and passing the result to .sort or .map or amything else that cares about count. | 22:23 | ||
| smls will RT | 22:27 | ||
| IOninja | m: use nqp; sub x($, $) {}; my $c = -> {}; nqp::bindattr(nqp::decont($c), Code, '$!signature', nqp::getattr(nqp::decont(&x), Code, '$!signature').clone); say $c.count | 22:28 | |
| camelia | 2 | ||
| IOninja wonders if that's a bad idea™.... | |||
| Is there a sane way to transplant a copy of a signature onto a block? | 22:29 | ||
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| IOninja | Oh wait, that ain't gonna work, how would I pass the args to the combined function :P | 22:30 | |
| m: use nqp; sub x($a, $b) {}; my $c = -> { say $a, $b }; nqp::bindattr(nqp::decont($c), Code, '$!signature', nqp::getattr(nqp::decont(&x), Code, '$!signature').clone); say $c.count | |||
| camelia | 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp> Variable '$a' is not declared at <tmp>:1 ------> 3nqp; sub x($a, $b) {}; my $c = -> { say 7⏏5$a, $b }; nqp::bindattr(nqp::decont($c), |
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| IOninja | hehe | ||
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| avar | nine: Any idea why the rest of the tests would work but metacpan.org/source/NINE/Inline-Pe...08/t/use.t fails with undef $tester value on ->get_one | 22:38 | |
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| avar | also now e.g.: | 22:44 | |
| perl -MInline::Perl6 -wE 'my $p6 = Inline::Perl6->new; $p6->run(q["hi".say])' | |||
| vomits out an inordinate amount of p5 subs redefined, but not: | 22:45 | ||
| perl -mInline::Perl6 -wE 'my $p6 = Inline::Perl6->new; $p6->run(q["hi".say])' | |||
| i.e. -m v.s. -M | |||
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| IOninja | First time running a Rakudo Star installer... a bit confusing | 22:59 | |
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| IOninja | 'cause instructions say run make/make install, but the output of Configure.pl suggests those are to install Rakudo only ("'make install' will install Rakudo.") so how to install modules? Didn't see anything on the topic in the README | 23:00 | |
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| IOninja | so I just ran `make install` to see what happens... and after a bit, it says "== Installing modules for MoarVM" | 23:00 | |
| MoarVM? Wtf is MoarVM? I wanted modules for Perl 6 | 23:01 | ||
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| avar | it's really confusing | 23:01 | |
| Configure.pl actually builds most of the software | |||
| Then 'install' builds some of the rest, then runs tests on it, then actually installs it | 23:02 | ||
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| IOninja | Hm. Looks like github.com/rakudo/star/issues/78 is 'cause zef is made to ignore test results :/ It still continues to install a module after failed tests, even though if you run `make install` twice it does abort and the error code is available in $? | 23:25 | |
| I think I'll leave it at that for today. Need to relax and then do IO ninjaing. | 23:26 | ||
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| samcv | good * everyone | 23:27 | |
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| IOninja | \o | 23:27 | |
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| avar | IOninja: Thanks, I filed that bug, doesn't 'make install' fail the second time for unrelated reasons, it does for me due to 'hey we installed this already' or whatever | 23:29 | |
| i.e. nothing to do with the test failures | |||
| IOninja | yeah, zef bails out when a module's already installed; and normally it bails out if tests fail too, but there I see it still installs a module; not sure if that's on purpose or not, but because zef is made to ignore test failures, it never gives make install the failure code | 23:30 | |
| (that's my interpretation of results I saw so far, at least0 | |||
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| avar | *nod*, would be consistent with what I saw | 23:32 | |
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| avar | But it's quite unnerving to encounter these "surely if anyone used this not-from-source this would be fixed already" bugs | 23:34 | |
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| avar | i.e. the test suite failing for non-network access environments, and 'make install' just ignoring failures, both of which I've spotted, but would be spotted in pretty much any distro packaging | 23:35 | |
| IOninja | We had a team come to us about Rakudo's test suite returing 0 for failures :) | 23:36 | |
| Dunno, maybe not many people want to hack on Star. Today's the first time I ever cloned a repo and ran the build TBH. And I've been with Perl 6 for ~1.5 years | 23:37 | ||
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| samcv | i've never installed star either | 23:38 | |
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| avar | I'm packaging perl6 for centos, so I'm grabbing the "latest stable" | 23:41 | |
| and the rakudostar distro makes it fairly idiot proof to ship with a few modules | |||
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| samcv | great avar | 23:54 | |
| we need more packaging | |||
| avar | It's quite a hack, but it sort of mostly works | 23:56 | |
| packaging rakudo* as a perl5 module, due to it needing interop with Inline::* | 23:57 | ||
| samcv | hmm | ||
| seems a weird classification | 23:58 | ||
| i mean it has a perl 5 module in it | |||
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