»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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SmokeMachine m: Int.^attributes.map: { .say } # why it happens and what is a BOOTSTRAPATTR? 00:21
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camelia No such method 'say' for invocant of type 'BOOTSTRAPATTR'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: Int.^attributes.grep: Int 00:22
camelia X::Multi::NoMatch exception produced no message
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: Int.^attributes.grep: {.type ~~ Int} 00:23
camelia ( no output )
SmokeMachine ok... that made sense...
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SmokeMachine m: Int.^attributes.grep: Attribute # but not this one 00:24
camelia X::Multi::NoMatch exception produced no message
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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IOninja It happens 'cause you're poking at low-level internals and trying to feed them to higher-level routines. 00:26
elaADnlxie . 00:30
geekosaur wonders if a p6 convenience method would be possible/useful
er, .p6
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geekosaur pass through p6 tyypes unmodified, wrap or promote nqp or vm level types 00:31
SmokeMachine IOninja: how could I detect that and only grep if its high-level?
geekosaur (not spec-d, and obviously no going to be portable)
SmokeMachine geekosaur: that could help in my case...
geekosaur it's not just you, pretty much everyoen trying to introspect via nqp hits it every so often 00:32
or via MOPs that leak implementation types
IOninja SmokeMachine: `try`
SmokeMachine IOninja: good idea... 00:33
elaADnlxie hehe, I broke a bot and nobody noticed! Nice!
IOninja SmokeMachine: here's an example where I grep for types; probably will work if you stick attributes instead
SmokeMachine: github.com/perl6/routine-map/blob/...p6#L60-L75
elaADnlxie: I noticed! 00:34
elaADnlxie IOninja: which bug did you find?
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SmokeMachine IOninja: thanks! 00:34
IOninja elaADnlxie: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2017-02-28#i_14181843
elaADnlxie IOninja: I didn't break this!
IOninja :) 00:35
elaADnlxie IOninja: … I simply didn't fix it…
ok ok what should I add to pull tags as well, hmm… 00:36
IOninja git pull --tags?
git pull pulls them for me automagically... 00:37
without needing `--tags`
elaADnlxie that's what I thought too, but apparently not
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elaADnlxie c: 2017.02 say 42 00:38
committable6 elaADnlxie, ¦«2017.02»: Cannot find this revision (did you mean “2017.01”?)
elaADnlxie ok, if it appears in ≈5 minutes, then I fixed it 00:39
IOninja: any other complaints?
IOninja Nope 00:40
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elaADnlxie c: 2017.02 say 42 00:45
committable6 elaADnlxie, ¦«2017.02»: 42
elaADnlxie \o/
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TimToady m: my regex abc { ‘aaa’ }; my regex xyz { <&abc> }; say ‘aaa’ ~~ /<xyz>/ 00:59
camelia 「aaa」
xyz => 「aaa」
TimToady elaADnlxie: ^^^ was it you looking for this?
elaADnlxie TimToady: yes! Yes!
TimToady a . means always call the method form
a & means always call the function form
elaADnlxie but <abc> means? 01:00
TimToady leaving it off was supposed to guess based on lexical scope, but seems someone made it synonymous with the . form
elaADnlxie m: my regex abc { ‘aaa’ }; my regex xyz { <abc> }; say ‘aaa’ ~~ /<xyz>/
camelia 「aaa」
xyz => 「aaa」
abc => 「aaa」
MasterDuke m: Int.^attributes.map: { .^name.say } 01:01
TimToady huh, I thought that wasn't working...
MasterDuke m: Int.^attributes.map: { .gist.say } 01:02
camelia bigint $!value
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MasterDuke m: Int.^attributes.map: { .perl.say } 01:04
MasterDuke SmokeMachine: ^^^, some options
SmokeMachine MasterDuke: thanks! 01:05
IOninja: someone decided something about the mexican version of ?? !! ?
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IOninja SmokeMachine: don't think so. 01:07
TimToady is right here. Ask him :)
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TimToady the what? 01:13
TimToady is on vacation, and doesn't have to decide anything :P
SmokeMachine m: say True ⁇ "OK" ‼ "NOK" # TimToady, this 01:14
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say True7⏏5 ⁇ "OK" ‼ "NOK" # TimToady, this
expecting any of:
infix stopper
statement end
TimToady that doesn't look mexican to me...
SmokeMachine u: ⁇ 01:15
unicodable6 SmokeMachine, U+2047 DOUBLE QUESTION MARK [Po] (⁇)
IOninja Mexical is opposite of Texas :)
TimToady but I'm probably fine with accepting those glyphs
SmokeMachine TimToady: so, would you mind, if I do my PR?
TimToady unless they mke the parser run a lot slower for some strange reason... 01:16
IOninja TimToady: then I know some people will ask if we added ⁇ and ‼, why not add ≥ and ≤? Are those also OK to add? I've seen a giant gist proposing all sorts of these fancy unicode ops and I'm just wondering where the line is drawn.
SmokeMachine TimToady: I have no benchmarks... :(
TimToady IOninja: I dont really have a problem with ≥ and ≤ either, just I'd like to get the chained operators generalizing correctly first 01:17
there's some difficulty with that that I don't recall offhand
user-defined chained ops, that is
I guess putting in ≥ and ≤ doesn't really need that, since they wouldn't be user-defined, per se... 01:18
SmokeMachine the ⁇ ‼ should have roast tests, right?
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TimToady why not? 01:19
either we support it as part of the language, or we don't
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SmokeMachine I think we do! :) 01:20
TimToady you should ask me for all the bad decisions you can get while I'm on vacation, and feeling mellow :) 01:22
elaADnlxie IOninja: the gist is mostly for gathering *all* ideas, I'm kinda hoping that half of these will be thrown away 01:24
≤ ≥ were very requested, ⁇ and ‼ less so, but it totally make sense 01:25
u: ⁇‼
unicodable6 elaADnlxie, U+2047 DOUBLE QUESTION MARK [Po] (⁇)
IOninja TimToady: Lol. OK, then, I still don't get the Rat/FatRat thing. As I understand it, big numerator/denominator are bad, so that's why we made that distinction. And FatRats are contagious. And currently when we try to create a Rat with its components > uint64 it sets them, but apparently it's wrong. Last I recall you said that maybe we should make > uint64 rats return a RatStr, because it knows how to convert 01:26
to FatRat, but I don't get why it should be a RatStr? Like, would the math operators use the FatRat version but it'd be non-contagious?
.oO( guess it'd help if I read the speculations on the topic first... )
Oh and I recall hearding that >uint64 Rats turn into Nums, but I don't get that. Why not do the FatRat thing?
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IOninja 4.9999999999999999999999999 => FatRat automatically; if you don't want the badness of >uint64 Rats, then coerce it to .Rat or .Num, losing precision. And <4.99999999999999999999999999999999999> ends up a FatRatStr; same rules, if you don't want the uber precision, coerce it. 01:30
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IOninja and infectioning is ( (Int => Rat) => Num ) => FatRat; Int + Rat => Rat; Rat/Int + Num => Num; * + FatRat => FatRat 01:31
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markasoftware what language is the perl 6 interpreter written in? 01:32
IOninja markasoftware: compiler. Depending on which part you're looking, it's either written in Perl 6 with a sprinkling of NQP or in NQP. NQP is a subset of Perl 6
markasoftware any haskell in it? 01:33
IOninja markasoftware: not really
markasoftware hmm. i read somewhere that it was written in haskell, couldn't find any other sources though
guess it was satire...
IOninja markasoftware: ah, it was long time ago, and was never a production compiler. That one was Pugs
and current one's called Rakudo 01:34
markasoftware ok, so I'm not going crazy, thanks
IOninja :)
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elaADnlxie that's it??? 01:39
not going to stay for some tea or something?
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elaADnlxie 'night o/ 02:35
SmokeMachine elaADnlxie: I fixed the misalign... 02:37
elaADnlxie: do you have any suggestion about the "copy-paste" thing? 02:38
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samcv i don't really like the copy pasty tbh 02:44
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SmokeMachine samcv: me neither... but I can't see a better way... any suggestion? 02:47
samcv let me look at it a sec
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SmokeMachine is it possible to encapsulate the token inside another token and use the new token on both tokens (<?? !!> and <⁇ ‼>)? 02:52
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samcv well the error code takes up most of it 02:54
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samcv so you could make the error code in its own token 02:56
<EXPR('i=')> [ '‼' | <ternary-explain> ... ] 02:57
something like that
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SmokeMachine samcv: great idea! Thanks! 03:07
is there a way to send parameters for a token from inside another token? 03:14
I got it! 03:16
ZzZombo s: Any, grep, \({True}) 03:17
SourceBaby ZzZombo, Ehhh... I'm too scared to run that code.
ZzZombo bad bot, bad
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SmokeMachine samcv: I unified the ternary explanation... could you take look at it? 03:35
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/1029 03:36
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BenGoldberg u: interrobang 04:25
unicodable6 BenGoldberg, U+203D INTERROBANG [Po] (‽)
BenGoldberg, U+2E18 INVERTED INTERROBANG [Po] (⸘)
BenGoldberg, 5 characters in total: gist.github.com/8dcf59292f1b61e63c...34b1cea3a7 04:26
BenGoldberg m: sub prefix:<‽> { $^tobe | not $^tobe }; ‽ "the question"; 04:28
camelia ( no output )
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ZzZombo m: my $x=:children;say $x.key == 'children' 06:06
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5children' (indicated by ⏏)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Actually thrown at:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
ZzZombo what??
m: my $x=:children;say $x.key() == 'children'
camelia Cannot convert string to number: base-10 number must begin with valid digits or '.' in '3⏏5children' (indicated by ⏏)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Actually thrown at:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
ZzZombo m: my $x=:children;say $x.key
camelia children
ZzZombo m: my $x=:children;say $x.key() ~~ 'children' 06:07
camelia True
ZzZombo W H A T
did P6 twisted comparison?
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ZzZombo ah 06:10
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ZzZombo I keep forgetting they did NOT actually change that. 06:11
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snowblack splicing arrays, does it not suck? 06:31
should I take that as a yes?
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snowblack anyone want to answer a question, other that this one? 06:33
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snowblack awake? 06:43
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moritz snowblack: just ask; maybe somebody will answer 06:48
but notbody can answer without a question :-)
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ZzZombo can I create a lazy list with for? 06:54
snowblack I am trying drop an element of a list my @b = < 3 4 5 6 7 8> 06:59
@b.splice( +(@b.grep: 6, :k) , 1)
is almost right, but there must be a better way 07:00
I just want to drop a value from a list, that I suspect is in the list 07:01
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snowblack @b.splice( (@b.grep: 6, :k) , 1) doesn't work 07:02
cause "Cannot resolve caller splice(Array: Seq, Int); none of these signatures match:...." 07:03
so I add "+" to make output of (@b.grep: 6, :k) be an Int, but then if the greped element isn't in the list 07:04
the code takes that as zero , and splices out the first element
THere must be an easier way, I used to know perl a decade ago, now I am trying perl6... 07:05
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CIAvash snowblack: grep returns a Seq, so adding + will return the number of its elements. try @b.splice(@b.first(6, :k) , 1) 07:11
snowblack ZzZombo, is this what you want? for 4...30 ->$z { say $z;} ; lazy , how to prove, I don't know 07:13
CIAvash ZzZombo: `gather for @a { .take }`? 07:15
TimToady or if you just want to remove all the 6's, do @b.grep: none 6 07:16
snowblack ok those answers are very helpful 07:20
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nine avar: you need to "use Inline::Perl6 'OO';" if you want to use Inline::Perl6->new; Otherwise it's just "use Inline::Perl6; v6::run '"hi".say';" 07:40
avar: that ^^^ is at least the reason for those redefine warnings 07:41
avar: that test failure is odd. But the good news is that it does happen here, too. Will investigate. 07:42
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avar nine: Sweet, thanks! 08:48
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nine This works: perl -E 'use Inline::Perl6 "OO"; my $p6 = Inline::Perl6->new; my $tester = $p6->run("use lib <t/lib>; use Perl6Test; Perl6Test.new"); say $tester->get_one' 08:52
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nine So I think it's another side effect of lexical module loading. The $p6->use('Perl6Test'); no longer affects the later statements. 08:53
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gregf_ cardiff and brighton are choke 10:10
sorry :/ wrong chat 10:11
Geth doc: 352cd94f02 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ | doc/Language/containers.pod6
correct example
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gregf_ m: :k.^name.say 10:21
camelia Pair
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DrForr Perl6::Parser - Cleared up (mostly) a bug that was incorrectly categorizing a lot of token clusters as a single bareword. 10:22
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ZzZombo m: Inf.WHAT 10:40
camelia ( no output )
ZzZombo m: say Inf.WHAT
camelia (Num)
ZzZombo m: say my Num $n=0 10:42
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot assign a literal of type Int (0) to a variable of type Num. You can declare the variable to be of type Real, or try to coerce the value with 0.Num or Num(0), or just write the value as 0e0
at <tmp…
ZzZombo m: say my Num $n=0e0
camelia 0
ZzZombo but why?..
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jnthn ZzZombo: Because types are constraints, and 0 is an Int, not a Num 10:47
ZzZombo m: say (1,2,3,4,5).all ~~ * > 0
camelia { ... }
ZzZombo m: say (1,2,3,4,5).all ~~ (* > 0)
camelia all(True, True, True, True, True)
ZzZombo how to get the ultimate result rather than the junction? 10:48
But somehow I expected 0 being silently coerced to Num
jnthn Use "so" 10:49
m: say so (1,2,3,4,5).all ~~ (* > 0)
camelia True
ZzZombo m: say ?(1,2,3,4,5).all ~~ (* > 0)
camelia True
jnthn I think that is wrong precedence though 10:50
ZzZombo m: say (1,2,3,4,5).all ~~ 0
camelia False
ZzZombo why this is different?
jnthn say ?(1,2,3,4,5).all ~~ (* > 0) groups as say (?(1,2,3,4,5).all) ~~ (* > 0) 10:51
And all those numbers are true, so it's like True ~~ (* > 0), which is True > 0, which is True
m: say so (1,2,3,4,-5).all ~~ (* > 0)
camelia False
jnthn m: say ?(1,2,3,4,-5).all ~~ (* > 0) 10:52
camelia True
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IOninja Side note for ticket reporters: "(HEAD)" is hard to figure out when you view the ticket later on. Would be nice if that included proper commit sha 13:18
Like this one: rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id...xn-1444346
DrForr Insert your own hash conflict joke here. 13:21
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jnthn "No, it's my turn to toke now!" 13:22
[Coke] The list of people who can add bugadmins now includes me, pmichaud, froggs, moritz, and IOninja.
IOninja wooo \o/ 13:23
jnthn Nice :)
IOninja [Coke]: where's the interface to add users? If I go to Configuration -> Rights -> User Rights I only see one user. Enoch Root :} 13:28
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[Coke] IOninja: if rt stops hanging, I'll tell you. :| 13:36
(probably my work proxy)
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IOninja Hanging for me too now. 13:37
[Coke] It's all on the same page; there's a box in the upper right that reads something like 'add user' 13:38
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cschwenz is github.com/kalkin/Ddt a hard fork of github.com/skaji/mi6 ? 13:44
IOninja [Coke]: oh yeah, I saw the box, sorry. I meant to ask how do I see existing users. Basically, someone says "I can't login" or whatever how do I view what sort of perms they got on their account or even if they have account?
cschwenz: what's a hard fork?
cschwenz as in, it really looks like the author or Ddt downloaded to source for App::Mi6 and made some changes before re-uploading the codebase as their own 13:46
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cschwenz s{author or}{author of} 13:46
IOninja cschwenz: sounds about right. Not long ago the author claimed Ddt was a replacement for Mi6
cschwenz: from what I understand, they assumed mi6 was an abandoned project. 13:47
TestML seems to be thoroughly bustified and YAML depends on it... 13:48
cschwenz :-) heheh. reported that one a few days ago. 13:49
IOninja Yes. Fixing ATM but can't run tests.
I mean... Fixing YAML one, but can't run tests..
cschwenz and once you get past that, github.com/perl6-community-modules...6/issues/3 awaits you
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jnthn Was about to say YAML is working fine in my project, then realized I'm using YAMLish :) 13:51
IOninja heh 13:52
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Geth yaml-pm6: 224b49627f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | t/Bridge.pm
Blind a MONKEY in test support module

Fixes #3
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[Coke] IOninja: existing bug admins are in the list on the left. the list of all possible users is in the dropdown. 13:59
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[Coke] for example, our names are at the bottom of the list on the left. 14:00
IOninja [Coke]: is this the right page? temp.perl6.party/rt.png
lucasb m: Seq.Int 14:02
camelia Cannot look up attributes in a Seq type object
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lucasb m: Seq.elems
camelia Cannot look up attributes in a Seq type object
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lucasb ^^ these should be multis instead of only methods, no?
so, they can give the helpful message: Invocant requires an instance of type Seq, but a type object was passed 14:03
IOninja Well, I give up with TestML. It looks for routine Point in a support test module and I don't know whether it shouldn't be looking of whether it should be there.
cschwenz IOninja: :-( 14:04
IOninja huggable: eco YAMLish
huggable IOninja, nothing found
IOninja I guess YAMLish is a Perl 5 thing...
cschwenz github.com/Leont/yamlish
YAMLish is a pure Perl6 implementation of YAML 14:05
IOninja huggable: eco Test
huggable IOninja, nothing found
IOninja huggable: you lie to me, robot!!!!
huggable IOninja, nothing found
IOninja Oh, wait, wrong robot.
buggable: eco YAMLish
cschwenz thinks the huggable bot is b0rken
buggable IOninja, Nothing found
IOninja buggable: you lie to me, robot!!!! 14:06
cschwenz :-P
IOninja buggable: eco Test
buggable IOninja, Found 30 results: Testing, Test::Mock, PSpec, Test::Builder, TestML. See modules.perl6.org/#q=Test
IOninja buggable: eco YAML
buggable IOninja, Found 2 results: YAML, YAMLish. See modules.perl6.org/#q=YAML
14:06 aborazmeh left
IOninja buggable: eco YAMLish 14:06
buggable IOninja, YAMLish 'An implementation of a useful subset of YAML': github.com/Leont/yamlish
IOninja ...
Now it's just messin' with me
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cschwenz maybe the string 'you lie to me' forces it to (re-)validate its cache? 14:07
IOninja lol
m: List.elems 14:09
camelia ( no output )
IOninja m: List.elems.say
camelia 1
IOninja m: List.Int.say
camelia Use of uninitialized value of type List in numeric context
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
cschwenz anyhow, in github.com/Leont/yamlish/blob/master/TODO.md … anyone have pointers for how to go about implementing any of the listed bullet points?
IOninja lucasb: not just, also need (::?CLASS:D:) in the sig (or Seq:Dr) 14:10
lucasb yes, Seq:D :)
cschwenz (as their lack of existence is why i tried using the Perl6 YAML module in the first place)
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lucasb also, why it needs 3 methods that does the same thing? github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/...m#L87-L113 14:11
only .elems check for lazyness
I tried to make a lazy seq and call .Int and .Numeric, but it seems the lazyness is checked somewhere else 14:12
IOninja m: (lazy 1, 2).Seq.is-lazy.say
camelia No such method 'Seq' for invocant of type 'Seq'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
lucasb because they end up calling .elems somehow and triggers the "Cannot .elems a lazy list" message 14:13
IOninja Man, Range and Seq need .Seq :/
m: (lazy 1, 2).is-lazy.say
camelia True
IOninja m: (lazy 1, 2).Numeric.say
camelia Cannot .elems a lazy list
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Actually thrown at:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
IOninja lucasb: "somehow" is via .cache that returns a List 14:14
lucasb: so it seems the laziness check in elems() isn't needed
lucasb ah, understood. thanks IOninja
IOninja Oh wait
Yeah, it is
m: (1..*).Seq.Numeric.say
camelia No such method 'Seq' for invocant of type 'Range'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
IOninja rages
lucasb about the other thing you said, should the methods Range.Range, Range.Seq and Seq.Seq exists? 14:15
IOninja m: (1...*).Numeric.say
camelia Cannot .elems a lazy list
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1

Actually thrown at:
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
IOninja hm
s: (1...*), 'Numeric', \()
SourceBaby IOninja, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/cf93...Seq.pm#L99
IOninja m: (1...*).list.say
camelia (...)
IOninja Ah, ok. Yeah, it ain't needed in elems()
lucasb wishes there was method/sub aliases 14:16
14:17 risou_awy is now known as risou
lucasb so you could just implement the .elems method and say that .Numeric and .Int are aliases of it 14:17
instead of duplicating its body
I remember lizmat++ implemented an "aka" trait, unfortunately it didn't get into core 14:18
In ruby I can say "alias length size" to have 1 method with 2 names, to use the name that I want at each moment. Sure, this lead to confusion, but anyway :) 14:21
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IOninja We already had this discussion. 14:21
14:21 risou is now known as risou_awy, risou_awy is now known as risou 14:22 skids joined
lucasb sorry to rehash this again, I forgot :) 14:22
IOninja "should the methods … exist". Maybe. Maybe not. this is on the same level as rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=130867 in that this should be made consistent across the entire codebase instead of making it piece-meal a few types here and there. 14:23
m: FatRat.FatRat
camelia Invocant requires an instance of type FatRat, but a type object was passed. Did you forget a .new?
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
[Coke] IOninja: ... I've never seen that page before in my life. :) 14:24
give me a moment.
IOninja [Coke]: hm... remember some time ago you told me I can't comment on tickets I did not create, but I could because I had some special account somehow. Maybe that's the case here?
I don't even remember how I got my RT account. 14:25
[Coke] IOninja: is the URL I sent you redirecting you to the other URL you're getting to?
IOninja Oh, I didn't notice you sent me a URL
[Coke]: the url you sent me works and has the users... Wonder how to get to that page from the menus... 14:26
[Coke]: if I go to user defined groups, I get "Parrot commit" 14:27
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[Coke] IOninja: there is no way to get there from the menus 14:29
you have to go to the URL I sent you
IOninja Ah. OK then 14:30
Cool, then it works.
[Coke] \o/
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IOninja Looks like I have really root-like perms... I have an option to disable perl5 queue, for example. 14:31
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IOninja does the maniacal laugh thing 14:33
cschwenz o_0 14:34
IOninja :)
[Coke] be good. :| 14:40
IOninja m: use Test; is-deeply ().Seq, () 14:41
camelia ok 1 -
IOninja Looks like is-deeply is bustified a bit... I'd expect the above to fail :/
m: dd ().Seq eqv ()
camelia Bool::True
IOninja uumm... OK then :|
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IOninja m: sub (@a, @b) { dd [@a.WHAT, @b.WHAT] }(().Seq, ()) 14:43
camelia [List, List]
IOninja Feels like I've discovered this before....
IOninja has bugjavu
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IOninja m: sub (\a, \b) { dd [a.WHAT, b.WHAT] }(().Seq, ()) 14:44
camelia [Seq, List]
IOninja m: sub (Positional \a, Positional \b) { dd [a.WHAT, b.WHAT] }(().Seq, ())
camelia [List, List]
IOninja ... I don't get it :/
Oh, seq is not positional duh 14:45
m: sub (Iterable \a, Iterable \b) { dd [a.WHAT, b.WHAT] }(().Seq, ()) 14:46
camelia [Seq, List]