»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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Geth marketing: 3c66ca7a91 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 12 files
Redo "Rakudo Concise" poster as "6lang Concise"
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aeruder just installed rakudo/nqp/moarvm from git, getting this from zef 03:49
% perl6 -Ilib bin/zef install . 03:50
===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /Users/aeruder/proj/rakudobuild/zef/lib/Zef/Distribution.pm6 (Zef::Distribution)
Cannot have a multi candidate for 'BUILDALL' when an only method is also in the package 'Zef::Distribution'
at /Users/aeruder/proj/rakudobuild/zef/lib/Zef/Distribution.pm6 (Zef::Distribution):48
geekosaur you chose a bad time to build from git, I think
aeruder heh
geekosaur BUILDALL's being reworked. this sounds like Zef needs to be updated to match
aeruder ah, ok, i see some commits in rakudo 03:51
i'll have to read a bit about BUILDALL 03:52
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geekosaur specifically github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/63cf246fd4 is what broke it. zef will need to be updated to match the new semantics 03:52
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tyil softly pokes geekosaur 07:21
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Grauwolf i'm really liking 6lang. nice idea 09:24
Zoffix \o/ 09:25
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stmuk m: say "\c[ARABIC-INDIC DIGIT SIX]"~"lang" 09:37
camelia ٦lang
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Ulti out of curioisity what will be the default semantics in Rakudo when 6.d is released? 09:58
will it always default to the latest language version unless you explicitly state what you want?
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Zoffix Ulti: yes: always latest unless you explicitly ask for version 10:01
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Ulti \o/ imagine god rays coming down 10:01
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Zoffix New blog post: "6lang: The Naming Discussion Update": 6lang.party/post/6lang-The-Naming-...ion-Update 10:20
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tyil geekosaur, jnthn: I wrote a small article on how I solved the forking issue, and I have added quotes to you both, do you guys mind if I publish this on my site? 10:29
its reviewable here if you want to take a look first: github.com/Tyil/website/blob/maste...rvice.adoc 10:30
lizmat tyil: why not a "proper" blog post ? :-) 10:33
tyil lizmat: if they are ok with me quoting them, it'll become a real post on my site
lizmat ok, cool :-)
tyil that is just the source that'll be turned into a post, but I don't want to publish it until I know they're ok with it :> 10:34
I'll post it on twitter with a10 #perl6 once it goes up 10:35
(and mastodon)
lizmat :-)
Xliff 6lang.... I kinda like it.
Although you will have to rip "Perl6" from my cold, dead hands. 10:36
tyil Xliff: while I like the perl 6 name, I've come to understand those wanting to tweak the name more with everyone I try to explain that perl 6 is not the same as perl 5
as if the false preconceptions against the name "perl" in general weren't bad enough ;~; 10:37
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Xliff tyil: Oh, I understand that aspect of it. 10:39
However, I've never thought of Perl as a "four letter word". 10:40
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Xliff I've always loved it. 10:40
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Xliff I can do more in Perl5 and 6lang than I can do in any other language with less code. 10:41
tyil me mostly with 6lang
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tyil I'm not that well versed with either perl version as some of the veterans in here 10:41
but 6lang feels powerful, and I find it easy to convert my ideas to code in 6lang
Xliff Well, it's been a while since I've done Perl 5 coding.
tyil much easier than with langs like python, ruby or php 10:42
Xliff And as of now, I prefer 6lang to P5.
tyil same
Xliff Still.
tyil the only thing I'm missing is 6lang being installed by default on most distros :p
Xliff 6lang has some quirks I wanna strangle it for.
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Xliff BUILD/TWEAK were my most recent nemesis. But now I grok them. 10:43
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Xliff Supply, Channel, await and others of that ilk still loom before me. 10:44
lizmat Xliff: ooc, what aspect of BUILD/TWEAK gave you problems?
Xliff I have nibbled around those edges and get the heebs.
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Xliff lizmat: Well, namely that I was trying to do things in BUILD/new that I needed TWEAK for, and I didn't know it even existed! 10:45
Rather, I read a passing mention of them in the docs and quickly forgot about it.
lizmat TWEAK was a rather recent addition
Xliff Ah.
tyil Xliff: my most recent quirk was that I cannot fork a 6lang program into the background as you'd do for services
Xliff Because I was trying to do things in BUILD that it was not meant for... namely callwith/nextwith 10:46
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Xliff tyil: Yes. I have been following that. I take it you've had luck. Oh. I need to read your post. 10:46
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tyil its a draft thus until I push it to my webserver 10:46
Ulti tyil: there's also software.clapper.org/daemonize/ 10:48
everyone always forgets the change working directory which always comes back to haunt them a decade later 10:49
Zoffix Xliff: no one's ripping "Perl 6" out of any hands :) 6lang is (potentially) the second name. Similar to how Canada has both English and French as official languages :) 10:50
Xliff Zoffix: Well good! That's the way it SHOULD be! ^_^ 10:51
tyil Ulti: interesting
Zoffix
.oO( TMTOWTNI )
Xliff tyil: Nifty post. Most of the tricks there I already knew, but that was a nice writeup!
In this situation, couldn't you get the forked script to write out its own PID file?
tyil Ulti: I mostly went for the posix sh so that it can be used in every real OS without extra deps
Xliff: yes 10:52
you can, but you dont need to :p
Xliff *shrug*
tyil timtowtdi extends to the shell too if you really want
Xliff Well, you said "SOL! LOL" (basically) so I was offering that as an alternative. :P
tyil hehe
stmuk is the next SQUASHathon themed (as the last was for doc)? 10:54
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Xliff I keep meaning to get SQUASHed. Always forget the date and have something I'm doing. 10:56
stmuk: They are Saturdays, yes?
stmuk yes 10:58
Xliff Yeah. Weekends tend to be busy for me.
I will try to make one, soon.
Zoffix stmuk: the next one will be rakudo's repo 11:01
squashable6: status
squashable6 Zoffix, Next SQUASHathon in 7 days and ≈22 hours (2017-10-07 UTC-12⌁UTC+14)
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Geth doc: 8f9443c3ac | (Jonathan Worthington)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/5to6-perlfunc.pod6
Be clear that NativeCall'ing fork() won't go well
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noobie_ Hi. What is the best way to download large binary files in Perl6? I'm looking for something similar to PHP's stream_copy_to_stream. 11:55
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timotimo we don't have a "sendfile" op yet; that's the linux sys call that asks the kernel to suck data out of one file descriptor and spit it out into another 12:02
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timotimo it's not standardised, though, i.e. not portable 12:02
oh, it looks like stream_copy_to_stream in php doesn't do that 12:03
it also seems to be rather wasteful on memory 12:04
Geth ecosystem: 531d9ca485 | (Tom Browder)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
change to a release branch
 12:05
timotimo hm, maybe splice is better than sendfile
noobie_ Currently I'm using a combination of LWP::Simple.get and spurt, which works well for small files only.
timotimo (which is also not portable)
jnthn The Cro HTTP client lets you get the body as a Supply 12:06
Which spits out the data as it arrives
And so you can write each chunk into a file
timotimo aye, LWP::Simple doesn't know anything other than returning all data as a single string or buffer 12:07
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noobie_ Cro::HTTP::Client sounds good to me. I'll give it a try. So this is the best option I have, I assume? 12:10
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timotimo it's a young module, but it's Very Good™ 12:11
noobie_ Great, thank you guys!
jnthn noobie_: cro.services/docs/reference/cro-http-message documents getting the body stream of a response, fwiw 12:13
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noobie_ Thnx jnthn 12:20
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tyil jnthn: did you read my latest highlight to you? :> 12:31
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jnthn tyil: ah, no, 'cus it only highlights /^jnthn :) 12:46
So it wasn't one for me
tyil: Looks fine, though 12:49
tyil: I also updated the docs today with a note on this
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Geth marketing: bdefc4c47b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
Use "done in 6 [hours/6lang]" wordplay; jdv79++
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Geth marketing: 31190843b5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Fix "6lang Concise" poster A4/Square PNG exports
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Xliff Is there some way that the precompile cache could get corrupted? 13:01
I have been working on my own code, but sometime in the last 18 hours a bug creeped in that seems to be affecting HTTP::UserAgent. At least the error appears in HTTP::UserAgent, and it doesn't make any sense. 13:02
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Xliff Cannot find method 'sink': no method cache and no .^find_method 13:02
in method request at /home/cbwood/.rakudobrew/moar-nom/install/share/perl6/site/sources/550EDE9A5964CAD65D8DE06101C62DC9A1145D0A (HTTP::UserAgent) line 150
Now I've run the test suite for HTTP::UserAgent, and everything runs fine. 13:03
I've also just rakudobrewed.
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Xliff Reason I am asking is because the code where the error occured, was not directly related to any of the code changes I made. 13:06
timotimo jnthn: on the cro http client docs page there's a wikipedia link to "Byteordermark" :) 13:07
hm, the formatting didn't come through, did it?
anyway, the _ in the link are interpreted as italic markers for the middle word 13:08
lizmat Xliff: you could try reverting the commits marked Stage X of auto-generated BUILDALL 13:09
tyil jnthn: I saw your commit, nice
jnthn timotimo: Probably a Text::Markdown bug 13:10
tyil now just gotta get an okay from geekosaur to include his quote and I can publish the article
timotimo probably just have to mark the whole thing as a link
Xliff lizmat: I am hoping I don't need to go that far into the trees. 13:11
I am just wondering why working code just suddenly... stopped working.
Now the script I was working on, which was running, but errored due to badly parsed date, is now erroring out in a place that it was originally working in. 13:12
What's the best way to force all modules to recompile without blowing away all of .rakudobrew and starting over?
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noobie_ jnthn: I've tried installing Cro but I'm getting an "Aborting due to test failure" error. Testing [FAIL]: Cro::HTTP:ver('0.7') Failed test 'Response contains expected body (HTTPS)' 13:15
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noobie_ Anyway, I've managed to install Cro with the tests disabled 13:30
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unclechu hey guys, what's better to use inside promises? `sleep n` or `await Promise.in: n`? 13:58
is there any difference?
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jnthn await Promise.in: n 14:00
sleep is really sleep; it blocks the thread for reals
unclechu jnthn: okay, any explanation? maybe `sleep` blocks whole process while `Promise.in` just based on event-loop?
jnthn In Perl 6.d (use v6.d.PREVIEW), await is non-blocking, and so using await Promise.in: n won't block up a real thread.
unclechu jnthn: okay, thanks 14:01
jnthn So it'll let you get away with less real threads, and so save memory
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lizmat jnthn: should sleep be expressed in Promise.in in 6.d ? 14:02
*as
jnthn No, I've already ruled on that.
lizmat ok
jnthn We need a way to be able to do the real sleep also, and I don't think there's a better name for it than sleep :) 14:04
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lizmat perhaps we need a snooze() 14:08
Promise.in(5) etc seems pretty long and not something that is easily findable for newbies 14:09
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jnthn How would snooze be more findable? 14:11
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sjn o/ #perl6 14:15
lizmat semantically it's easier to go from "sleep" to "snooze" than it it to go to "Promise.in"
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unclechu hey guys, when i mix 'forking' and 'promising' in the same app i have some forks stuck on some 'awaits', is there any explanation of that? 14:16
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unclechu p.s. i have 'fork' by nativecall bind 14:16
lizmat unclechu: yeah, in short DIHWIDT 14:17
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unclechu lizmat: sry, have no idean what 'DIHWIDT' means 14:18
could you expand this please? )
lizmat Doctor, It Hurts When I Do This
see also: github.com/perl6/doc/commit/8f9443c3ac
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Xliff What does this error message really mean "Cannot find method 'sink': no method cache and no .^find_method 14:20
unclechu lizmat: got it, thanks
El_Che if there is a thing I love about Zoffix it is his perseverance
unclechu but what would be the best way to do some stuff of my app in background?
donaldh also www.linuxprogrammingblog.com/thread...using-them 14:21
lizmat Xliff: that usually means something from NQP slipped into HLL land in void context 14:22
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donaldh was just caught out by multi candidate with named params always winning over those without, even when not provided in call. 14:24
It would be helpful to get a warning that a multi candidate is shadowed and will never be called. 14:25
Xliff lizmat: Something like this? 14:27
X::HTTP::Response.new(:rc('Max redirects exceeded'), :response($response)).throw; 14:28
That is the line rakudo is referencing.
lizmat m: X::HTTP::Response.new(:rc('Max redirects exceeded'), :response($response)).throw;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$response' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3rc('Max redirects exceeded'), :response(7⏏5$response)).throw;
lizmat m: X::HTTP::Response.new(:rc('Max redirects exceeded'), :response(404)).throw;
camelia Could not find symbol '&Response'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff That's defined by HTTP::UserAgent 14:29
Somewhere.
lizmat that would imply the .throw didn't throw ?
Xliff And this code was working, yesterday.
And I am wondering if it could be something in $response that is causing the problem, because that is something that I could fix.
Would throw not throw if there was an exception in the catch for X::HTTP::Respnose.new? 14:30
lizmat not sure
Xliff Odd. 14:32
It doesn't look like X::HTTP::Request has a $!response.
Might that do it?
Lemmesee
Nope. Same error. 14:33
donaldh it has code
Xliff Oh, nevermind. It does. I missed it in the superclass. :/ 14:34
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donaldh m: use HTTP::UserAgent; X::HTTP::Response.new(:rc('Max redirects exceeded'), :code(404)).throw; 14:34
camelia ===SORRY!===
Could not find HTTP::UserAgent at line 1 in:
/home/camelia/.perl6
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor
/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6
CompU…
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HoboWithAShotgun to cook or to order, that is the question 14:40
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Xliff HoboWithAShotgun: Yes, indeedy! 14:42
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HoboWithAShotgun then answer it Xliff, tell me, tell me, I implore 14:50
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Xliff HoboWithAShotgun: It depends on your circumstances, my good man. 14:59
1) Do you have a car?
If Yes... CARRYOUT! :D
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skids 2) Do you have a shotgun? If yes, carryout... very quickly 15:28
yoleaux 27 Sep 2017 07:51Z <AlexDaniel> skids: “Any obvious repo in which to plop this?” – maybe github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki
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skids hrm how do you tell github wiki to put a new page under a subdir? 15:47
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Geth marketing: 2abcff48b8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 22 files
Date SQUASHathon posters
 15:54
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Geth marketing: abffe7754d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 13 files
Add 2017.10 SQUASHathon Poster
 16:04
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Pilu is there any module to support databases? 16:45
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AlexDaniel skids: I don't think there are subdirs. Maybe if you clone the wiki repo and do it there… 16:48
Pilu: what about modules.perl6.org/dist/DBIish ? 16:49
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Pilu it seems good, thx 16:52
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jdv79 m: ' foo bar baz' ~~ /[\s+(\S+)]+/; my ($foo, @bar) = $/.list; say $foo, '###', @bar; 17:23
camelia [｢foo｣ ｢bar｣ ｢baz｣]###[]
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jdv79 i would have though $foo would get the first item and @bar the rest 17:23
*thought
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jdv79 anyone get what's wrong there? 17:28
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AlexDaniel m: ‘foo bar baz’ ~~ /[\s+(\S+)]+/; my ($foo, @bar) = @$0; say $foo, ‘###’, @bar; 17:29
camelia ｢bar｣###[｢baz｣]
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AlexDaniel m: ‘foo bar baz’ ~~ /[\s*(\S+)]+/; my ($foo, @bar) = @$0; say $foo, ‘###’, @bar; 17:30
camelia ｢foo｣###[｢bar｣ ｢baz｣]
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lizmat news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15346747 # a Perl 6 reference 17:31
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geekosaur tyil, that 404s? 17:33
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Ven`` .u 🤔 17:34
yoleaux No characters found
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jdv79 guess i still don't get the itemization rules 17:35
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timotimo that post claims "moose greatly influenced the core support for oop in perl 6", but wasn't it the other way around? 17:35
lizmat yeah, thought so too :-) 17:36
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geekosaur didn't it go both ways? the p6 OOP proto spawned Moose btu after that they kept in touch 17:37
timotimo after a point there was back-and-forth iirc 17:38
AlexDaniel u: 🤔 17:39
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+1F914 THINKING FACE [So] (🤔)
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jdv79 AlexDaniel: thanks. in context the regex is larger and it works out 17:41
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tyil geekosaur: sorry, I renamed it: github.com/Tyil/website/blob/maste...rvice.adoc 17:48
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geekosaur tyil, that's fine, yes 17:49
tyil geekosaur: cool, thanks 17:50
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tyil lizmat: article is online and tweeted :> 18:48
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Ven`` .u 🤔 18:54
yoleaux No characters found
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AlexDaniel u: 🤔 19:05
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+1F914 THINKING FACE [So] (🤔)
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jdv79 gist.github.com/anonymous/868e1d6f...87bf20f005 19:37
I tried to use a slip on $foo inside of the slipped capture args but it didn't work 19:39
how do i strip that extra level of container? 19:40
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AlexDaniel m: my $foo = <bar baz>; class Meh { has @.arr; }; dd Meh.new(arr => @$foo).arr 19:55
camelia Array @!arr = ["bar", "baz"]
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AlexDaniel jdv79: wait, what extra level? 19:55
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jdv79 line 12 of the gist 19:57
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jdv79 i'm gonna guess that's impossible given how p6 works 19:57
i have a positional attr. i want to fill it on a constructor call via slipped args. 19:59
or whatever .new(|%args) is called 20:00
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lizmat jdv79: have you tried => $foo.Slip ? 20:08
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AlexDaniel m: my $foo = <bar baz>; class Meh { has @.arr; }; my $z = Meh.new(|%( arr => $foo.Slip )); dd $z.arr 20:09
camelia Array @!arr = [slip("bar", "baz"),]
lizmat interesting
that feels like a bug to me 20:10
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jdv79 yeah 20:12
slip, Slip, flat, and some other linenoise
ok
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Xliff Aaannd.... the code behavior changes again. 20:20
Honestly, I think the administrators are screwing with me. I can't get consistent results from their wacky OAuth implementation.
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Xliff OK. I think I found out where that sink error is coming from. Looks to be coming from a ".resume" in a CATCH clause. 20:30
Wow.
m: { X::AdHoc.new(:payload<foo>).throw;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3{ X::AdHoc.new(:payload<foo>).throw;7⏏5<EOL>
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Xliff m: { X::AdHoc.new(:payload<foo>).throw; say "OHAI"; CATCH { when X::AdHoc { .resume }; }; }; say "OBAI"; 20:31
camelia OHAI
OBAI
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El_Che hacktoberfest.digitalocean.com/ <--- lizmat, can you hype this on the weekly? 20:42
lizmat noted :-) 20:43
El_Che exec summary: send 4 PR's, get a t-shirt
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tyil lizmat: do you also own10 @perl6org on twitter? 20:59
lizmat nope, moritz does
and maybe timotimo ?
timotimo i don't 21:00
tyil ah
moritz: can you retweet twitter.com/Tyilanmenyn/status/913...1565538304 on10 @perl6org? :>
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AlexDaniel clickbaits code-golf.io/ 21:04
tyil AlexDaniel: nice 21:05
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tyil AlexDaniel: can I see the solutions too somewhere? 21:14
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AlexDaniel tyil: unfortunately, no. I created this issue though: github.com/JRaspass/code-golf/issues/6 21:14
personally I'm not sure if it's better this way or not 21:15
tyil it would be cool to be able to see the results of others after you submitted your result
and that you arent eligible for a better result once you've seen the results of others 21:16
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Juerd Why is int !~~ Numeric? 22:32
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Herby__ o/ 22:36
timotimo Juerd: interesting. i would have expected it to automatically box an Int, which does ~~ Numeric
Juerd A value that's int, does 22:37
int itself doesn't
Thanks for the insight though. I hadn't looked into that yet.
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MasterDuke is anyone going to the london perl workshop? 23:01
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leont is 23:12
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MasterDuke cool. there's a chance i'll be passing through the day after, so there's an even slimmer chance i could move my trip a day earlier 23:16
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