»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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AlexDaniel err that didn't go live did it 00:25
fxd 00:26
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timotimo there it is! 00:39
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kilobyte Hi! (Not even a perl6 user yet, messing with fonts); I just learned perl6 uses ｢｣ in its preferred syntax. Are there other such characters that are unlikely to be found in minimal fonts? 00:46
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AlexDaniel kilobyte: everything that is listed here basically: docs.perl6.org/language/unicode_ascii 00:48
huggable: uni
huggable AlexDaniel, «»×÷−∘≅πτ𝑒∞…‘’‚“”„｢｣⁺⁻¯⁰¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹∅∈∉∋∌⊆⊈⊂⊄⊇⊉⊃⊅≼≽∪∩∖⊖⊍⊎⁇‼≤≥≠$¢⚛
kilobyte AlexDaniel: thanks!
AlexDaniel huggable: uni :is: «»×÷−∘≅πτ𝑒∞…‘’‚“”„｢｣⁺⁻¯⁰¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹∅∈∉∋∌⊆⊈⊂⊄⊇⊉⊃⊅≼≽∪∩∖⊖⊍⊎≤≥≠$¢⚛
huggable AlexDaniel, Added uni as «»×÷−∘≅πτ𝑒∞…‘’‚“”„｢｣⁺⁻¯⁰¹²³⁴⁵⁶⁷⁸⁹∅∈∉∋∌⊆⊈⊂⊄⊇⊉⊃⊅≼≽∪∩∖⊖⊍⊎≤≥≠$¢⚛
kilobyte I mean, stuff that's not merely allowed (like 𐌲𐍉𐌸𐌹c identifiers in perl5 with "use utf8"), just ones that are likely to be found in real non-fancy code 00:51
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kilobyte cares about codepoint-starved environments, such as vt (256/512 glyphs available, taken mostly by letters) 00:52
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AlexDaniel kilobyte: that sounds very sad :) 01:03
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kilobyte AlexDaniel: default glyph set for the console on Debian looks like it has been last visited in the previous millenium, it could use a refresh 01:05
AlexDaniel: also, x terminal font authors need to be told which glyphs to prioritize
I mean, in my current font ｢｣ look nice when borrowed from other fonts, ⚛ spills over taking almost two positions 01:06
geekosaur X11 stuff defers that to your .fontconfig 01:07
and terminals intrinsically have no good way to deal with character widths
kilobyte I can set this up on my personal machine, yeah -- but 99.99% of users don't know how
geekosaur: right, I asked for clarification, which resulted in the yellow text on www.unicode.org/reports/tr11/tr11-34.html (will need another iteration to request a table which _is_ intended for use) 01:09
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buggable New CPAN upload: PDF-Font-Loader-0.1.6.tar.gz by WARRINGD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/W/WA/...1.6.tar.gz 01:28
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manchicken So, if it's not "CPAN," what are we calling it? Just "modules.perl6.org"? That's so boring. 02:12
dylanwh mp6o 02:14
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TEttinger ogduu 02:17
mp6o upside down 02:18
manchicken hah
6PAN?
DPAN? 02:19
geekosaur CPAN is CPAN. CPAN supports both perl 5 and perl 6. CPAN is not modules.perl6.org. I think modules.perl6.org is transitional and you'd use metacpan.org or similar instead eventually
manchicken Oh, really? That's cool.
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Zoffix It's not quite the plan any more. The metacpan fork was limping all along and last time I got the update about it it was "stalled but not yet dead", which is why CPAN support was added to mp6o. My crystal ball says mp6o's featureset will slightly develop further for ~2 years, then there'll be move to write proper Rakudo version of the site. Perl 5 version just isn't working out, the way I see it. 03:15
manchicken, CPAN is CPAN. It has support for both Pumpkin Perl 5 and Rakudo Perl 6 modules. It's one of our ecosystems, with the other being GitHub/GitLab based, called "p6c". The modules.perl6.org ("mp6o") is the front-end for both of those ecosystems
manchicken Aww... I like metacpan. 03:16
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geekosaur so do I, and I didn't realize it was moribund :( 03:17
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Zoffix I imagine plugging in multiple ecosystem + multiple auths into it could be complicated (never seen its code tho). 03:18
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Zoffix + it's in Perl 5, so limited contributor force, if you consider the pool of Perl 6 programmers. I know Perl 5, but even then, it's just unfun to code in and feels like "work" 03:19
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manchicken I still love Perl 5. 03:28
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Zoffix manchicken: great :) Maybe you could kill a couple of mp6o's issues: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/issues 03:30
manchicken: this one in particular is in high demand: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/issues/81
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manchicken So much to do. 03:32
Was going to implement Fcntl in p6. 03:33
Trying to determine approach. Thinking that I'd make a C program to print the constants to a module that can be pulled in by the Perl 6 module.
I could use NativeCall, but it seems silly. 03:34
But do we think that the mp6o's stuff is higher priority?
Zoffix briefly glancing at Fcntl's perldoc, doesn't look like something I'd ever need. there's .lock and .seek on IO::Handle. Dunno what else Fcntl does 03:35
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Zoffix github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org/issues/81 is kinda high priority in that P6Weekly used to always include new module releases, but now it doesn't because we got to ecosystem and whatnot and the Recent Modules page would be handy for Weekly and whatnot. 03:36
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manchicken Fcntl gives you your standard C constants. 03:38
Zoffix Ah, I don't know C
manchicken Modules like open2/open3 use it.
It's a foundational module.
A bunch of the modules on the wishlist􏿽x97at least in their P5 implementation􏿽x97use Fcntl. 03:41
Zoffix \o 03:43
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teatime AlexDaniel: still around? 03:44
AlexDaniel a bit
teatime I'm still looking at your sleep graph. Curious how you handle the inevitability of forgetting to record a day's data.
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Hotkeys never forget 04:01
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AlexDaniel teatime: yeah, I just hit a button on my laptop whenever I wake up or go to bed. Really not that hard 04:09
given that I check email anyway right when I wake up
teatime gotcha
Geth perl6-most-wanted: manchicken++ created pull request #41:
Starting work at Fcntl.		 04:11
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manchicken Anybody know if we have a P6 equivalent of metacpan.org/source/NWCLARK/ExtUti...onstant.pm ? 04:22
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manchicken OK, I'm going to bed. Enough Perling for one day. 07:27
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titsuki_ Yesterday, I questioned how to call wikipedia recent change API. But happy to say I found a quick and dirty solution: gist.github.com/titsuki/6d99620463...4764b6b543 07:39
so disregard my question :)
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Geth perl6-most-wanted: e1486bb9a6 | (Michael D. Stemle, Jr)++ | most-wanted/modules.md
Starting work at Fcntl.
 07:56
perl6-most-wanted: 156cac8306 | (Michael D. Stemle, Jr)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | most-wanted/modules.md
Merge pull request #41 from manchicken/master

Starting work at Fcntl.
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Geth doc: 9c40dc9c39 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/testing.pod6
Document `cmp-ok` can't take meta ops as Str

Addresses github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1333		 08:41
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/testing
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bioexpress Hello, is there a way to use a variable as the key of a named parameter? gist.github.com/anonymous/87d71b86...8c2ea80105 10:16
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Hotkeys m: sub foo (:$a = 1) { say $a }; foo("a" => 2).say 10:27
evalable6 (exit code 1) Too many positionals passed; expected 0 arguments but got 1
in sub foo at /tmp/OcA7Ro_FaS line 1
in block <unit> at /tmp/OcA7Ro_FaS line 1
Hotkeys m: sub foo (:$a = 1) { say $a }; my $key = "a"; foo(|($key => 2)) 10:34
evalable6 2
Hotkeys bioexpress: ^^
Stick the pair in a slip and it works fine
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bioexpress Hotkeys: thx, I'll try that. 11:10
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nine moritz: finally! Must have been some kernel bug or something. After going through the configuration and debugging for 2 hours, I just installed this week's updates, rebooted and everything works again. 11:59
AlexDaniel somebody did 12 days of Christmas in 335 characters XD 12:01
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AlexDaniel tyil: why no xpost to r/perl? I'd love to see more perl5 solutions :) 12:02
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titsuki_ bisectable: say "兆".unival; say 兆; 12:11
bisectable6 titsuki_, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=a04c616) the exit code is 1 and the output is identical as well
titsuki_, Output on both points: «04===SORRY!04=== Error while compiling /tmp/ZEG46HarnL␤Undeclared routine:␤ 兆 used at line 1␤␤»
nine m: say "really here" 12:12
camelia really here
titsuki_ bisectable: say "㊿".unival; say ㊿;
bisectable6 titsuki_, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=a04c616) the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
titsuki_, Output on both points: «50␤50␤»
AlexDaniel titsuki_: :S interesting 12:13
titsuki_ AlexDaniel: What is the difference between 兆 and ㊿? 12:14
AlexDaniel m: say 𖭡
camelia 1000000000000
AlexDaniel u: 兆㊿
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+5146 <CJK Ideograph-5146> [Lo] (兆)
AlexDaniel, U+32BF CIRCLED NUMBER FIFTY [No] (㊿)
AlexDaniel propdump: 兆㊿ 12:15
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/e7890be099dee89f4d...5f82ad3e38
AlexDaniel titsuki_: one is Lo and another one is No
titsuki_: so one is a letter and another one is a number. This matters because letters are valid identifiers, so it thinks that it's a sub name 12:16
titsuki_: ok I changed it to 𖭡. Thanks
titsuki_ AlexDaniel: I see thanks! 12:17
AlexDaniel .tell samcv TIL, maybe you're interested to know this too. 兆 has a unival of 1000000000000 but you can't use it in the source code because its general category is Lo (so it thinks that it's an identifier) 12:19
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to samcv.
tyil AlexDaniel: the bot autoposts perl 6 advent stuff to /perl, so I only post to /perl6 12:23
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geekosaur not sure that's something that's really addressable. does M get a numeric value of 1000? does א get a numeric value of 1? 12:26
systems that reuse letters as numbers are problematic in general
(granting that modern Hebrew uses digits to avoid the problem) 12:27
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AlexDaniel fwiw I'm not saying that it should be addressed :) 12:39
sunnavy_ sunnavy 12:40
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AlexDaniel squashable6: next 12:45
squashable6 AlexDaniel, Next SQUASHathon in 12 days and ≈21 hours (2018-01-06 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
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psychoslave Hi, I'm interesting with Perl6 "slang" facilities that I have heard of, but I don't find introducing documentation. I'm looking at this within a broader research on [programming language internationalization](en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Internatio...Languages) I just started. I would like to know if Perl6's slangs could be used for this purpose. Notably, I would like to know if this facility: 1. enable 14:28
to modify even reseverved keywords 2. expose the same debugging/profiling features as the native Perl6 language, or if it operate a kind of transpiler work which won't enable to track the additional layer.
Your feedback will be highly appreciated, thank you.
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timotimo psychoslave: yes, you can change even reserved keywords, though hardly anything in perl6 is really reserved in that sense 14:42
github.com/bduggan/mosdef - here's an example slang that allows you to use "lambda" or λ to declare anonymous subs 14:43
and "def" to declare methods
psychoslave thank you timotimo that's an excellent feedback for me 14:49
timotimo search "slang" in modules.perl6.org to find more; v5 is an extremely thorough slang, replacing basically all of perl6 with perl5, but it has bitrotted so you can't run it on a current rakudo 14:50
psychoslave on a side note, I found you nickname doubly [frightening](en.wiktionary.org/wiki/timo#Esperanto) ^^ 14:52
timotimo yeah, i believe the original name would have been "timotheus", which means god-fearing 14:53
"the god-fearing one"
lizmat
.oO( intimodating )
timotimo this isn't a timo dating community :P 14:54
psychoslave Otherwise, I'm interested with more technical details with how all that is architectured. Is the perl6 default syntax also a slang? 14:56
From what I can infer from v5 being a slang, I guess one could possibly integrate any programming language as a slang of perl6, is that so? 14:57
timotimo basically 14:58
perl6 is parsed with a Grammar and an Actions class (plus the World that holds all definition-like things)
you make a slang by either replacing the grammar entirely or mixing in a role into the existing grammar
lizmat one of the exercises in the rakudo internals course, is an implementation of PHP :-)
and people *have* worked on doing Ruby, afaik
timotimo you see, Grammar is really class-like, so you can derive from a grammar, and you can mix into a grammar
psychoslave Very interesting. Is Rakudo coded in C? 15:00
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timotimo no, we have a language called NQP which is "Not Quite Perl6" that we use to bootstrap rakudo 15:01
nqp already has full perl6 grammars built in
a lot of rakudo is written in NQP, but the "core setting", i.e. almost all built-in classes and subs (including operators), are written in perl6 15:02
psychoslave By the way, don't be shy on giving me many links, I will put them on the references of the research of language i18n :)
timotimo nqp runs on MoarVM, the JVM, and (work ongoing) JavaScript
psychoslave impressive
timotimo and MoarVM is written in C 15:03
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psychoslave also, there is no "reserved keyword" timotimo, does it mean that `sub` might easily be used as an other keyword or as an identifier in in a slang? 15:13
timotimo m: my \sub = 1; say sub 15:14
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my \sub = 1; say sub7⏏5<EOL>
expecting any of:
new name to be defined
psychoslave I mean, it deals collision with clean namespaced grammar ?
timotimo okay, it does not like that at least
lizmat m: my \if = 1; say if # other cases do work 15:15
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant to call it as a method on $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun
at <tmp>:1…
lizmat weird, that works locally ?
m: my \if = 1; say if 15:16
camelia 1
lizmat looks like the comments handling is interfering
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b2gills m: my \if = '\if'; m: sub if () { 'if(' ~ if ~ ')' }; say if(); 17:05
camelia if(\if)
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lizmat
.oO( that looks iffy )
 17:07
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moritz nine: thanks for the fix! 17:10
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manchicken Neat! I have Fcntl making a module by simply appending Perl code to the end of a template. 17:55
OK, I'm confused... 18:09
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manchicken I have this: 18:09
`use Fcntl <SEEK_SET SEEK_CUR SEEK_END O_DIRECTORY>;`
It's complaining about a lack of `EXPORT` function, even though each of those symbols is defined as `constant CONST_NAME is export(:ALL) = VALUE;` 18:10
I'm clearly misunderstanding something in the documentation.
I thought the `is export` trait made it available to be explicitly imported one-at-a-time. 18:11
_sigh_ What's the point of having the ability to compile code snippets if everybody `:skip-test`s their snippets? 18:16
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manchicken Every time I read the C<Mu> docs, I learn something new. 22:06
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manchicken `PackageName::.kv` giving me a full list of constants... my mind is blown. 22:27
Does anybody have time to look at my Fcntl implementation? 22:28
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manchicken Sweet. To Travis with the module. 22:48
Has anybody played with nativecall modules in Travis? 22:52
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comborico1611 Hey, anyone here an Emacs user? 23:11
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AlexDaniel comborico1611: yes 23:17
yoleaux 16:14Z <tbrowder> AlexDaniel: i think i have all the pod config hash stuff ready for a PR (after a bit of tidying). i hope all the work i see on value arrays and typing doesn't interfere with it--we'll see--i don't think it will. i have tested all the stuff as it shows currently in the docs (including lists and hashes).
comborico1611 Do you use standard cursor moving keyboard bindings? 23:18
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AlexDaniel comborico1611: hmm… I guess so 23:20
comborico1611 Ctrl: P, N, F B
AlexDaniel ah these, no.
comborico1611 I'm just wondering of the merits of that. Seems like it's more intuitive to use a video game setup that mimics the arrow keys 23:21
Do you use arrow keys or custom?
AlexDaniel I have a custom keyboard layout where I have arrow keys on altgr+ESDF
well actually .oeu because I'm using dvorak 23:22
and my altgr is on the spacebar so that's rather convenient
comborico1611 That's sounds like a nice setup!
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comborico1611 Thanks for the input! 23:23
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travis-ci Doc build passed. Zoffix Znet 'Document `cmp-ok` can't take meta ops as Str 23:23
travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/builds/320805206 github.com/perl6/doc/compare/modules-20171223
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AlexDaniel … and if anobody is wondering how do I write space then… I have space on 無変換 23:23
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buggable New CPAN upload: Sparky-Plugin-Notify-Telegram-0.0.1.tar.gz by SPIGELL cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SP/...0.1.tar.gz 23:48
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