»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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bocaneri Trying to build rakudo 2018 on Ubuntu with prefix /usr/local, having no luck. The build process can't find (or build) a moar VM. 00:25
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bocaneri Oh, know what? Never mind. It needed a sudo. 00:29
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stmuk .tell zoffix its not duplicate content. There are no references to chocolatey, pkgsrc, nine's OpenSUSE packages, appimage or OpenBSD existing on rakudo.org 01:09
yoleaux stmuk: I'll pass your message to zoffix.
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stmuk .tell zoffix neither is having multiple download pages anything new 01:10
yoleaux stmuk: I'll pass your message to zoffix.
Zoffix stmuk: it *is* duplicate, because all of that content is present on the new download page. And you wrote your page hours after I told you I was **working on the new download page**
yoleaux 01:09Z <stmuk> Zoffix: its not duplicate content. There are no references to chocolatey, pkgsrc, nine's OpenSUSE packages, appimage or OpenBSD existing on rakudo.org
01:10Z <stmuk> Zoffix: neither is having multiple download pages anything new
stmuk .tell zoffix you sound burnt out to me and like you should take a break
yoleaux stmuk: I'll pass your message to zoffix.
Zoffix Fuck you, asshole. 01:11
yoleaux 01:10Z <stmuk> Zoffix: you sound burnt out to me and like you should take a break
stmuk Zoffix: you are blocked for a month
Zoffix "<stmuk> I'm not a client-side dev and don't play one on TV" ... So then leave the client-side work to client-side devs instead of producing embarassing content 01:12
Especially after you were told client-side devs were working on THAT SAME CONTENT 01:13
You're fast to fucking criticise the work of others. Wrote over 2,000 words on that Issue dissing everrything. But you yourself proved you produce shit with that duplicate download page commit. So if you're passing around advice for what who should do, how about next time you shut the fuck up instead of writing fucking novels shitting on stuff you know fuck all about. 01:15
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stmuk note to others on the channel personally abusive blocks (like the mst one) extend to any use of the "zoffix" string in messages 01:15
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Geth rakudo.org: 32634a1dca | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files
Add page for "From Source" build instructions
 02:06
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Geth rakudo.org: 80866b6ff3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Mop up the master download page

All the content has been moved to individual specific pages		 02:29
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Geth rakudo.org: 970d60d7d3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | public/asset/pics/logo-inverse.png
Remove text from nav logo image
 02:41
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Geth rakudo.org: 7b4382677f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files
Plug blog posts back in
 03:06
Zoffix .tell pmichaud I think it's best to wait until your return on Apr 1 before moving the site, rather than rush everything for Mar 14—I'd like to take extra time to ensure all the old links still map to something sane on the new site. I already got majority of the content up (other than binaries and the new pages we're adding) and put up a demo for you, if you wanted to look at progress so far: 03:20
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to pmichaud.
Zoffix hack.p6c.org:4242/
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Zoffix .tell pmichaud hack.p6c.org:4242/ 03:20
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to pmichaud.
Zoffix Thank you, robot! Have a botsnack.
.botsnack
yoleaux :D
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u-ou how do I get 5 from a string of binary '101' 04:24
in other words I have something like '101' and want to get 5 from that
is there a quick way
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cfa u-ou: 04:34
m: say '101'.parse-base(2)
camelia 5
u-ou thank you :)
cfa np 04:35
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ryn1x . 04:54
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todd_ How do I fix this? # zef install Net::SMTP ===SORRY!=== Failed to open file /usr/lib64/perl6/site/dist/863D6AAB4F5E7259BA381C4EBE0F88BAA358090E: No such file or directory 05:43
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Kaiepi would bindings for editline be useful to have as an alternative for readline for certain oses? 05:45
todd_ I will ask on the mailing list 05:55
Kaiepi thanks
btw where's the mailing list?
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todd_ [email@hidden.address] 05:58
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Geth doc: 462336d755 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/packages.pod6
Adds example of dynamic calls closes #115
 06:39
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/packages
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Geth doc: c29f55d1ca | cfa++ | 2 files
Document unit sub MAIN, index existing unit and module declarators.

Closes #1819.		 06:48
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stmuk I'm opposed to the decision which has apparently been made to offer the Rakudo Compiler for download alongside Rakudo Star since I believe it will confuse users 07:18
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stmuk Neither will I be maintaining Rakudo Star past the end of 2018 (past 2018.04, .07 and .10 releases) 07:22
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Geth whateverable: 132adebc1e | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | bin/Reportable.p6
Tickets marked `testneeded` are not just updated

Fresh tickets on RT are “new”. When someone marks a “new” ticket with
  `testneeded` tag and writes a comment, the state changes to
  “open”. For that reason reportable was showing some tickets as
  [new→open] instead of putting them into “half-resolved” category. This
is now fixed. ... (5 more lines)		 08:47
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Geth doc: 8338cec888 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Any.pod6
Fixes MD→Pod6 refs #1843
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synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Any
Geth doc: e3d968b911 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Channel.pod6
tell that whenever reacts to a closed Channel
 09:41
doc: a331f89db5 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Channel.pod6
Merge pull request #1839 from gfldex/patch-8

tell that whenever reacts to a closed Channel
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Channel
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Zoffix stmuk: yet you're the one who added a page that does just that without even differentiating among the two deliverables. 10:11
You're not opposed to shit. You're just bent on playing a dick measuring contest. 10:12
You're the only committer on this page: github.com/perl6/perl6.org/commits...thers.html 10:13
It doesn't even bother saying the Linux and macOS sections offer different things. It just omits "Star" in the names.
But when Rakudo Star section is clearly deliniated and compiler-only offerings are explained hack.p6c.org:4242/files all of a sudden you oppose because of "user confusion". 10:14
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Zoffix stmuk: And worse yet, you're blackmailing the core devs, by saying you'll resign as release manager in the same breath as saying you oppose to download page changes. 10:19
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Zoffix .tell pmichaud also the Rakudo Star release manager decided to have a shit fit. Added this page hours after told him we were re-designing the site perl6.org/downloads/others.html and now that he's seen my demo hack.p6c.org:4242/files says he oposes it because it's "confusing" and will resign as release manager 10:23
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to pmichaud.
Zoffix Like fucking kindergarten 10:24
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Zoffix stmuk: and nothing "has apparently be made". We tell users to install Rakudo-only packages RIGHT NOW: rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/#Insta...Star-Linux and tell them to build Rakudo-only from source RIGHT NOW: rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/#Disco...Rakudobrew and until not so long ago not only was the from-source option built Rakudo-only, it built a random DEV commit, not a 10:36
release. So nothing is changing with respect to that, except we'll actually clarify the difference so there would be LESS CONFUSION.
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Zoffix stmuk: but I know why you're throwing a shit fit. In your eagerness to criticize, you don't even realize that this hack.p6c.org:4242/files is a replacement for this rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ not this perl6.org/downloads/ The perl6.org main download page would still offer Star only with hack.p6c.org:4242/files linked to under "other download options". The point I explicitly 10:41
stated on the bikeshed Issue: github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/...-371665629 and the only reason you think we'd be offering the "confusing" Rakudo-Only packages from perl6.org/downloads is because I posted a draft screenshot of **rakudo.org page** saying I'd like the perl6.org page to be **functionally similiar**, i.e. with platform-detection:
github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/...-372083414
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Zoffix stmuk: You're literally freaking out because you saw "Download 64-bit .deb" on a mockup for a different site and made a shitton of assumptions about the actual changes that were gonna be made to perl6.org page. 10:42
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bbkr Star Wars :) 10:55
masak :(
El_Che I should learn not to comment on closed tickets
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bbkr As for "to Star or not to Star" debate I think perl6.org/downloads/others.html misses the most important info - WHICH packages are included in Star? If I have task to solve, let's say connect to Redis, as a user I still don't know if Star is good for me or not. 10:58
So hack.p6c.org:4242/files is a bit more informative here. 11:00
stmuk bbkr: its an arbitary selection of modules "likely to be useful", very roughly something like a core stdlib. I'd expect to be able to make web requests with it but I wouldn't expect database drivers (which often need DB libs) to be present 11:01
El_Che the difference with a stdlib is that that is expected to be a static given 11:02
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stmuk bbkr: that page is bad because it offers "rakudo compiler" directly to end users along with "rakudo star" 11:02
El_Che there is no warranties on the ecosystem, or even rakudo release-to-release for that matter
Geth rakudo.org: bab5a43d89 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | templates/home.html.ep
Adjust home page download button to match options on /files

  - We ain't got .deb/.rpm of Rakudo Star
  - The platform detector only has "iOS" option; no idea if that
   detects non-mobile macOS too		 11:04
stmuk bbkr: I'd argue that something like perl6.org/downloads/ is better (without the direct "rakudo compiler-only linux packages") but having a link to another page (like the new perl6.org/downloads/others.html page)
I'm not opposed to offering nxadm's packages (which are useful to people) but I think they should be on a "drill down" type page rather than directly on the download page 11:06
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stmuk the design of the new rakudo pages looks excellent 11:08
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bbkr I know Star distro from day 0. And IMO whole release model is bad. Star should not compete with compiler, it should be added on top of it. So I should be able to BOTH "brew rakudo" AND brew "rakudo-star", where rakudo-star only adds zef and modules and has rakudo as dependency. Star should not contain compiler, it should depend on it. That's more flexible. 11:08
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bbkr Just like Debian slim has perl-base and perl-packages 11:08
timotimo it was important to the star process to have a very well-tested compiler version + module versions
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timotimo if a rakudo-star package just took whatever compiler your distro currently offers and installs whatever current versions of the "bundled" modules from the ecosystem, that is lost 11:09
to be fair, the actual amount of well-testing rakudo star has been lackluster with regards to community volunteering 11:10
El_Che I like the Task:: idea of perl5
shortcut for the lazy :)
stmuk I was hoping star might become a sort of Medium Term Support version of rakudo based on a stable compiler version (similar to what timotimo is saying I think)
El_Che: Task::Star has been problematic ... there are actually two 11:11
El_Che yeah, I remember
stmuk: at the speed rakudo advanced, medium term sounds not desireble
maybe once the developments settles 11:12
stmuk El_Che: yes I suspect its still years off 11:13
El_Che I started with star on my docker containers 11:14
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El_Che but had to give it up because of that 11:14
stmuk but to be frank whenever star is discussed there is no consensus about what it should be
so we are probably stuck with what we have
I have thought of a "mini-Star" which just had docs and zef 11:15
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bbkr timotimo: Nothing prevents Star to require _very specific_ compiler package. And that gives user freedom. 11:16
stmuk particularly use of the base compiler means people don't use p6doc (or even know it exists)
El_Che I think the main problem is considering something as a stdlib when the author may not see it that way 11:17
Zoffix stmuk: dude, the perl.org/downloads would still offer star only with "drill down" to other options. That was always the plan. You're criticizing the wrong site. hack.p6c.org:4242/files is replacement for rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ which already does mention compiler only options in adhoc manner
Would someone tell him that since he apparently has me "blocked for a month"? 11:18
stmuk El_Che: I don't understand you. Noone said its a stdlib
El_Che .tell stmuk soffics says: tmuk: dude, the perl.org/downloads would still offer star only with "drill down" to other options. That was always the plan. You're criticizing the wrong site. hack.p6c.org:4242/files is replacement for rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ which lready does mention compiler only options in adhoc manner 11:19
yoleaux El_Che: I'll pass your message to stmuk.
El_Che stmuk: yes, I get that
stmuk: but that's the analogy (and expectations) in a lots of people's head (including mine)
Zoffix Thanks 11:20
stmuk maybe its a "NotSoStdLib" :)
yoleaux 11:19Z <El_Che> stmuk: soffics says: tmuk: dude, the perl.org/downloads would still offer star only with "drill down" to other options. That was always the plan. You're criticizing the wrong site. hack.p6c.org:4242/files is replacement for rakudo.org/how-to-get-rakudo/ which lready does mention compiler only options in adhoc manner
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El_Che off: lunch 11:20
stmuk I'm going to read zoffix replies when I'm more calm and less likely to lose my temper 11:21
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stmuk what I'm seeing now looks reasonable 11:22
bbkr just take a look at debian. they did it right. meta package perl = perl-base + perl-modules + perl-docs. this way user can install whatever he wants and there are no 2 competing "brands" (bare perl / perl with modules) that are confusing. 11:23
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stmuk bbkr: I'm a debian fan but I find that annoying. Typically debian perl users may not have perldoc or prove installed. Debian does that because they target embedded systems but disk space is cheap and I'm rather see docs with my lang runtime 11:25
bbkr Star = perl-modules and perl-docs. I don't see a reason why it is separate brand. 11:26
That's not annoying, that's lifesaver
have you ever tried updating Perl on hundreds of docker images?
stmuk yes 11:27
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bbkr storage is cheap but in some cases it's good to have an option and skip modules you don't need in particular case. 11:27
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stmuk the download pages are targeting desktop users not docker users. docker images of perl 6 exist 11:29
sorry correction the main download page targets desktop. the docker images are refered in a secondary page 11:30
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bbkr I'm talking about general principle from DevOp point of view. I'm happy to just "install perl" with all the goodies and develop something. But for release I want slim and tailored environment. I don't need PDF docs on production servers for example. So production gets "install perl-base" and manual installation of minimal required module set. And I can be pretty sure that it works because on devel and production I use the same comp 11:40
iler package. While in current Star model I'm forced to install all the stuff everywhere because it is built with compiler, not on top of it.
stmuk so don't use star 11:41
moritz I think deploying rakudo applications at scale using anything but Docker will be a PITA 11:42
stmuk moritz: I think that's a problem many of us would like to have! 11:43
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Geth rakudo.org: 867204c744 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | templates/home.html.ep
Simplify home page download button

  - Users could still benefit from instructions pages
  - Just link to /files route		 12:33
rakudo.org: 86df3c77e9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | assets/sass/main.scss
Tweak download icon on home button
 12:34
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Meows .tell stmuk github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/96 13:23
yoleaux Meows: I'll pass your message to stmuk.
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Kaiepi m: state $a = 1; say $a 13:46
camelia 1
stmuk I don't want see any changes to perl6.org or rakudo star errata or the rakudo star release process
yoleaux 13:23Z <Meows> stmuk: github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/96
Kaiepi m: state $a := 1; say $a
camelia (Mu)
Kaiepi is this supposed to happen? 13:47
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El_Che m: my $b = 1; state $a := $b; say $a 13:48
camelia (Mu)
geekosaur I... think that's not supposed to be a combination
(seems like binding a state var would "break" its state-ness?) 13:49
but here it breaks even more because nothing was expecting that to become broken
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Kaiepi is it possible to have an immutable state variable? 13:49
geekosaur it seems slightly contradictory, unless you're being overly clever about a constant 13:50
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geekosaur "state variable" is a specific form of mutability 13:50
El_Che Kaiepi: it should be a weird use case 13:51
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geekosaur that is, it's a mutable container whose identity is defined by its lexical location 13:51
Kaiepi it is a pretty weird use case 13:52
geekosaur binding it breaks both the mutability and the container identity, leading to Mu because it isn;t attached to anything any more (state vars need speciifc compiler support, which stops working if you bind them)
Kaiepi ah 13:53
ok that makes sense
geekosaur so really that usage should throw a compile time error
since the compiler won;t be able to do anything sensible with it
I really don't know what you would intend with an immutable state var though. sounds like a constant mixed with some confusion over what a state var is 13:57
normal vars come into existence when their context does --- so if they're defined in a function, they come into existence when the function is called 13:58
state vars are defined solely by their location -- so, if defined within a function, the same variable / mutable container is used in every call, not a new one for each call 13:59
but both are mutable containers. if it's immutable, seems like it's just a constant (possibly a constant with local scope / visibility)
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Zoffix Kaiepi: just bind to a regular variable 14:02
m: sub meows { my \z := (once { say "making a value"; 42})<>; z = 100; say z }; meows for ^10
camelia making a value
Cannot modify an immutable Int (42)
in sub meows at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix m: sub meows { my \z := (once { say "making a value"; 42})<>; say z }; meows for ^10
camelia making a value
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
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Zoffix (and looks like the return of `once` adds an unwanted container) 14:02
geekosaur that's the other way I'd understand it --- but I still don;t see why.
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geekosaur and I'm a bit worried that the "why" really means they want something else entirely 14:03
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Zoffix In core we do this to compute things lazily, only once. 14:03
geekosaur sometimes having multiple choices means invitation to XY problem
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Kaiepi the reason i asked was i was trying to do something weird for a config module, but i ended up not needing state for it to work hastebin.com/locututone.pl 14:24
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Kaiepi i feel like this is still a weird way of doing it though 14:26
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Geth perl6.org: 805e34b92e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
Add external-link markers to extrnal nav links

Closes #94		 14:32
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cfa morning all 14:40
lizmat too bad nobody's mentioned Perl 6 in news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16567877 so far :-) 14:42
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El_Che "Hi, sir. Have you heard of the concurrent blessings of Perl 6?" 14:52
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Geth perl6.org: 31322bf78e | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | includes/header
Bump CSS cache
 15:04
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eryst how can I get the output of a command, which is printed on the sceen? 15:15
I want to store the output in a variable
$x = shell 'ls';
for example
I want it to store a list of files in $x
DrForr cfa: Especially if it's part of a modular. 15:16
MasterDuke eryst: my $p = run 'ls', :out; say $p.out.get 15:17
ilmari eryst: no need for a shell for that: my @files = '.'.IO.dir
MasterDuke eryst: see docs.perl6.org/type/Proc for details 15:18
eryst thank you
DrForr .tell cfa Perl6::Tidy tagged and released into the wild.
yoleaux DrForr: I'll pass your message to cfa.
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buggable New CPAN upload: Perl6-Tidy-0.0.1.tar.gz by JGOFF cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JG/...0.1.tar.gz 15:21
lizmat DrForr++ 15:22
DrForr I do need to add a feature request though - it seems that the BumpVersion check assumes the file it's checking contains a class, not a grammar. Maybe I shoud just move that out of the way... 15:23
(to App::Mi6, that is.)
lizmat yeah, it's an App::Mi6 issue really 15:25
DrForr Moving it into ::Grammar might make more sense. Just because I appreciate the convenience I'm probably going to make the rest of my stuff App::Mi6 compliant as I get to it... 15:28
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DrForr Speaking of which, need to do its +1 thing, assuming such an interface exists. 15:29
Ah, doesn't exist yet. I'll use GH... 15:31
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cfa DrForr: thanks :) 15:39
yoleaux 15:18Z <DrForr> cfa: Perl6::Tidy tagged and released into the wild.
Zoffix jnthn: do we have "Actor model concurency"? Someone said "Concurrency is not a first class citizen in Perl 6 though. As with Perl 5 the best you can hope for is actor model implemented on top of promises/futures." but I'm reading about "Actor model" and it sounds a lot like what we got... 15:40
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MasterDuke is there a #wordpress channel? 15:40
Zoffix yes 15:42
Ah, "Queuing and dequeuing of messages in a mailbox are atomic operations, so there cannot be a race condition"... So I guess if it were "first class citizen" there wouldn't be any race conditions ever? 15:43
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timotimo doesn't mailbox there translate 1:1 to Channel? 15:44
and there can still be race conditions if you have more than one mailbox and don't synchronize properly
jnthn Zoffix: Sounds like somebody thinks the only way a language can do concurrency correctly is the actor model. :P
Zoffix Ah :)
jnthn You can indeed implement actors atop of what's in Perl 6, though. I already started sketching out some of how that'd be done. 15:45
(OO::Actors)
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jnthn Also note that supply/react blocks have actor semantics (one message at a time). :) 15:46
And those are decidedly first class citizens. 15:47
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mspo they have a mailbox? 15:48
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lelf how could you do ‘use attributes :D & is required’? 15:51
jnthn mspo: Not explicitly; they enforce a "sender pays" model, in order to have back-pressure, though you can always do the `emit` in a `start`, and that is an asynchronous send and will queue 15:53
mspo okay neat
document it :) 15:54
I guess the trick with erlang is that there can be multiple nodes in play
Geth perl6.org: Kaiepi++ created pull request #97:
Add link to PufferBot's GitHub to source/community/irc.html
moritz mspo: you could also document it
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mspo perl6 is a multi-multi-multi paradigm language supporting every typing discipline and unlimited syntax 15:55
good start? 15:56
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Geth perl6.org: 3198528ce4 | (Ben Davies)++ | source/community/irc.html
Add link to PufferBot's GitHub to source/community/irc.html
 15:57
perl6.org: bddd9404df | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | source/community/irc.html
Merge pull request #97 from Kaiepi/pufferbot

Add link to PufferBot's GitHub to source/community/irc.html
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Geth rakudo.org: 92e3c16862 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | templates/files.html.ep
Tweak Rakudo compile-only description

Per github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/...-372359750		 16:11
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Geth rakudo.org: 4a3afd26a3 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | templates/files.html.ep
s/A/An/
 16:24
sena_kun sergot, ping? 16:25
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sergot sena_kun: hey 16:29
sena_kun sergot, hi! I'm looking at your pretty DateTime::Parse. I'd like to add DateTime formatted per RFC 3339 there too. Do you mind to pull it(well, when it'd be ready) or I want to create a separate module for it? Thanks. 16:30
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tbrowder_ hi, #perl6 16:43
eryst hi
tbrowder_ is it possible to add a ‘latest-stable’ (or similar) tag for rakudo to ease automating various test environments? 16:45
i’m investigating my own version of zoffx’s Toaster just concentrating on the latest stable version (and keeping records for previous stable versions). 16:47
jnthn tbrowder_: Just look at the content of VERSION in the repository root
tbrowder_ ok, thnx 16:48
jnthn git checkout `cat VERSION` works fine :)
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Zoffix tbrowder_: just execute git checkout $(git describe --abbrev=0 --tags) to check out the tag for latest stable 16:49
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Zoffix tbrowder_: toaster checks out automatically BTW, the script thing 16:49
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tbrowder_ thnx 16:49
Zoffix perl6 bin/toaster-perl6 2017.07 master 2018.02 will toast 2017.07, then master, then 2018.02 release 16:50
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Zoffix Ah, I guess you want master + latest stable; `git describe --abbrev=0 --tags` would give you latest tag 16:50
perl6 bin/toaster-perl6 $(git describe --abbrev=0 --tags) master
Geth doc: ee3d797fe1 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | 3 files
whitespace
 16:52
doc: 8e7fa6ba8b | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/module-packages.pod6
slight phrasing change
doc: e113c3790d | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | xt/words.pws
learn new word
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/module-packages
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tbrowder_ Zoffix: i’m looking at just he latest stable at first, but maybe adding current master later. i need some baby steps here while unwinding your golf-style of coding... 16:52
Zoffix tbrowder_: or even without needing to have checkout handy: perl6 bin/toaster-perl6 $(TMP=$(mktemp -d); git clone -q --no-checkout --depth 1 github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git ${TMP} > /dev/null 2>&1 && cd $dir && git -C ${TMP} show master:VERSION && rm -rf ${TMP}) master 16:53
tbrowder_ which of course is optimum for running, but not so optimum for lesser beings
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tbrowder_ i also plan to add more qc items and tracking dependency tests for failing modules, probably “over-engineering” and feature explosion... 16:56
stmuk_ tbrowder_: github.com/stmuk/rakudup/blob/mast...akudup#L31 16:57
tbrowder_ the use of multiple cores is interesting, but i’m holding off for the moment. also will use postgesql. 16:58
stmuk: thanks! 16:59
s/gesql/gresql/ 17:00
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Zoffix tbrowder_: note that the working viewer is Perl 5 version and uses SQLite. So you'd need to update it to work with Pg (or make the P6 version working; it's slightly out of date and also nomed all my RAM last time I used it 6-12 months ago) 17:02
Oh, I think it uses Tardigrade even... :o Maybe it'd need a rewrite entirely then, to something like Cro 17:03
[Coke] any love for getting perl6 --doc to format tables with visible cells?
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sergot sena_kun: sure, just create a PR and we're ready to go! 17:04
:)
tbrowder_ Zoffix: thanks, i may use basic old static apache for now, or maybe a trial with Bailador.
sena_kun sergot, thanks! Already in the middle of it. :) 17:05
sergot thank you! :)
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[Coke] (pod tables) and/or as indented in text mode. 17:05
Zoffix [Coke]: yes, but only by editing Pod::To::Text a little 17:10
[Coke] Any preference for ascii table vs. unicode table vs. indent only? 17:11
(I can put together a PR) 17:12
Zoffix Looking at the output right now and I'd say indent-only table looks the easier to read 17:13
I added `--------------` between rows and that looks awful
and `|` between columns kinda makes non-textual data in cells tougheer to read
[Coke] ok. and the indent also has a prayer of not breaking the spec test. 17:14
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stmuk_ Zoffix: I'm confused. So we get a new rakudo.org which resembles the old (but without download) and the download on perl6.org gets updated later? Or something else 17:18
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Zoffix stmuk_: we get a new rakudo.org that resembles the old and with download and the download on perl6.org gets updated later. 17:19
stmuk_: basically all the changes from here: github.com/perl6/perl6.org/issues/...-304368951 minus all perl6.org changes and minus the API bit 17:20
That will be done now.
stmuk_ moving to just having one dl page is Progress (whatever the details of exactly what happens) 17:21
Zoffix++
Zoffix And later, we move all the downloads to perl6.org and, I guess, leave rakudo.org just a cover page that links to someplace on perl6.org
stmuk_ I guess the actual binaries are probably hosted on rakudo.org? 17:22
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El_Che Zoffix: I left a note on your commit, the packages I produces do include zef 17:23
and like Yoda talk I
stmuk_ . o O ( and niecza gets re-added in the feature comparison ;) ) 17:25
Zoffix After rakudo.org update both rakudo.org, perl6.org (and rakudo.perl6.org) will live on the same server, so they'll need to be uploaded just once. But rakudo.org will have some sort of way to cater via the old links (the ones that always link to latest release, etc)
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Geth perl6.org: 26feb352b4 | (Steve Mynott)++ | source/downloads/others.html
nxadm includes zef
 17:27
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Zoffix The binaries I meant. 17:32
Zoffix &
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Zoffix [Coke]: oh, and here's the updated Pod::To::Text2 temp.perl6.party/Text2.pm6 that draws a table like this: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/8d30031...eb72104249 , if you wanted it. All the changes are in the sub table2text. 17:34
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[Coke] m: arts parts｣ 17:42
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Bogus postfix
at <tmp>:1
------> 3arts parts7⏏5｣
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement modifier
…
[Coke] m: '$parts parts' ~~ / << (<+alpha + [-$]>)+ >> \s+ << $0 >> / # how can I make the first part greedier so it includes the $ and therefore fails the match? 17:43
camelia ( no output )
[Coke] m: say '$parts parts' ~~ / << (<+alpha + [-$]>)+ >> \s+ << $0 >> / # how can I make the first part greedier so it includes the $ and therefore fails the match?
camelia ｢parts parts｣
0 => ｢p｣
0 => ｢a｣
0 => ｢r｣
0 => ｢t｣
0 => ｢s｣
[Coke] m: '$parts' ~~ / << (<+alpha + [-$]>)+ >> /
camelia ( no output )
[Coke] m: say '$parts' ~~ / << (<+alpha + [-$]>)+ >> / # oops 17:44
camelia ｢parts｣
0 => ｢p｣
0 => ｢a｣
0 => ｢r｣
0 => ｢t｣
0 => ｢s｣
[Coke] m: say '$parts' ~~ / (<+alpha + [-$]>)+ / # oops
camelia ｢$parts｣
0 => ｢$｣
0 => ｢p｣
0 => ｢a｣
0 => ｢r｣
0 => ｢t｣
0 => ｢s｣
[Coke] I guess if I'm going to lie about what words are, I should use << and >>
[Coke] redoes this as not-a-regex. 17:47
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El_Che it looks like we're all friends again 17:59
yeah
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lichtkind native shaped means length of array? 18:13
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timotimo shaped means that, native is about the contents being int, or num, or str 18:18
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mspo utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/p...equentDevs <- nice 18:22
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lichtkind timotimo thank you 19:06
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[Coke] ponders what to submit a tpc talk on 19:13
El_Che you've been involved for a while; a community and technical history of Perl 6? 19:14
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[Coke] I'd rather give a "how to X in 6" 19:17
but thank you, it's a good suggestion 19:18
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El_Che [Coke]: there are several people than can do a perl 6 howto. Not that many that can give that kind of long term view. But a howto may be more fun, indeed :) 19:26
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cfa hmm 19:50
docs.perl6.org/language/syntax#Mod...eclaration
"There are several types of compilation units (packages)"
'packages' seems misleading there
also, package { } could be added as an example since it's undocumented at the moment
jnthn Hm, those are indeed different kinds of package, but the compilation unit is just the file 19:51
cfa yeah
like, this seems to define compunit as package
which is the misleading part
jnthn *nod*
Yeah, one can have many packages in a compilation unit. 19:52
cfa yeah
jnthn I almost always do
Geth doc: 87d0659641 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Language/syntax.pod6
Unconfuse packages and compilation units

  cfa++ for reporting.		 19:58
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/syntax
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cfa jnthn: oh, ta 20:02
jnthn Welcome :)
cfa jnthn: i was drafting something similar
:P
jnthn I was waiting for something to build, so figured I may as well :)
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Geth doc: 7d7c7ec3ae | cfa++ | doc/Language/syntax.pod6
Briefly document and index the package declarator.
 20:19
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/syntax
cfa (module Gar vs. grammar Baz was confusing; simplified those names)
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pmurias mspo: the "gradual typing" Perl 6 is super weak and a stretch of the definition so definitely not a very big selling poing 22:06
yoleaux 11 Mar 2018 11:33Z <MasterDuke> pmurias: i added that @*comp_line_directives stuff when i was adding support for `#line 2 SETTING::src/core/core_prologue.pm6` (so error message gave the real file instead of gen/moar/CORE.setting). but i barely knew what i was doing, so feel free to do something better
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El_Che pmurias: care to explain? 22:11
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pmurias El_Che: in proper statically typed languages if you add assertions everywhere your program becomes statically typed 22:20
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pmurias El_Che: err, meant gradually 22:21
El_Che: so the gradual means you can gradually turn a dynamic program into a statically typed one
El_Che isn't that what perl 6 tries to reach? 22:22
pmurias El_Che: in Perl 6 we only have native types (and other static types are basically just runtime type assertions)
lizmat and another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2018/03/12/...less-gems/
pmurias lizmat++
El_Che pmurias: got it 22:23
pmurias El_Che: I'm not aware of any directed effort towards that
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pmurias also Perl 6 seems complex enough that I'm not sure there is a single obvious static type system to put on it 22:25
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El_Che lizmat: whenever you write gems, I think of Ruby :) 22:34
lizmat well, good titles are always a bit clickbaity :)
El_Che ha 22:35
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buggable New CPAN upload: App-Mi6-0.1.3.tar.gz by SKAJI cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SK/...1.3.tar.gz 22:41
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