»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
timotimo if it isn't, i definitely should put it in the repo 00:00
:o they're not in the repo
cfa tut tut 00:01
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buggable New CPAN upload: App-Mi6-0.1.5.tar.gz by SKAJI cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/S/SK/...1.5.tar.gz 00:11
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timotimo i probably didn't upload it "officially" because the code is kind of messy :D 00:21
Geth doc: d1c8d8ad7f | cfa++ | 19 files
Remove leading indentation from (some) pod code blocks.
doc: 03b0c0ef35 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | 19 files
Merge pull request #1848 from cfa/indentation

Remove leading indentation from (some) pod code blocks.
cfa AlexDaniel: ta 00:26
timotimo what does "tut tut" mean? 00:29
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cfa en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/us/tut-tut 00:31
(i was teasing)
timotimo oh, so a bit like "tsk tsk"?
cfa in this context, yeah 00:32
'tut tut' always strikes me as a little ridiculous
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timotimo put in a fast path that's about 30% faster that's utilised about 40% of the time, yay 01:06
but i didn't measure how much it costs to decide between the two 01:07
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Geth doc: f5697a75d9 | cfa++ | doc/Language/rb-nutshell.pod6
Fix Ruby nutshell markup.
 01:21
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/rb-nutshell
cfa timotimo: nice! 01:23
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timotimo "Cannot find method 'List': no method cache and no .^find_method", i wonder if i managed to break it by doing something dangerous, or if there's just a terrible bug waiting to eat someone 01:36
m: use nqp; my num @foo; for ^10 { @foo.push(nqp::time_n() - nqp::time_n()) }; say @foo.sort.List 01:37
camelia (0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0)
timotimo m: use nqp; my num @foo; for ^10 { @foo.push(nqp::time_n() - nqp::time_n()) }; say ([+] @foo) / @foo.elems; say @foo.sort.List 01:38
camelia -2.38418579101563e-08
(-2.38418579101562e-07 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0)
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timotimo m: use nqp; my num @foo; for ^10 { my num $start = nqp::time_n(); @foo.sort; @foo.push(nqp::time_n() - $start) }; say ([+] @foo) / @foo.elems; say @foo.sort.List 01:38
camelia 3.07798385620117e-05
(4.05311584472656e-06 4.52995300292969e-06 6.43730163574219e-06 8.10623168945312e-06 9.05990600585938e-06 9.29832458496094e-06 1.00135803222656e-05 1.45435333251953e-05 1.50203704833984e-05 0.000226736068725586)
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timotimo m: use NativeCall; use nqp; my num @foo; for ^10 { my num $start = nqp::time_n(); @foo.sort; @foo.push(nqp::time_n() - $start) }; say ([+] @foo) / @foo.elems; say @foo.sort.List 01:39
camelia 1.55448913574219e-05
(2.62260437011719e-06 3.33786010742188e-06 5.7220458984375e-06 8.58306884765625e-06 9.05990600585938e-06 1.00135803222656e-05 1.00135803222656e-05 1.04904174804688e-05 1.45435333251953e-05 8.10623168945312e-05)
timotimo maybe tomorrow i'll go through the work of narrowing down the code a bunch 01:43
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timotimo m: use NativeCall; use nqp; my $pdbuf = CArray[int64].new(0); nativecast(Pointer[int64], $pdbuf); my num @foo; for ^10 { my num $start = nqp::time_n(); @foo.sort; @foo.push(nqp::time_n() - $start) }; say ([+] @foo) / @foo.elems; say @foo.sort.List 01:45
camelia 1.35183334350586e-05
(2.86102294921875e-06 2.86102294921875e-06 5.48362731933594e-06 7.86781311035156e-06 8.10623168945312e-06 8.34465026855469e-06 9.29832458496094e-06 1.00135803222656e-05 1.38282775878906e-05 6.65187835693359e-05)
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timotimo it depends on how many rounds the loop does 01:46
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Geth doc: 27c592351a | cfa++ | doc/Language/rb-nutshell.pod6
...and unindent those fixed =for blocks.
 01:48
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/rb-nutshell
timotimo m: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; my @otimes = @times.sort.List; 01:52
camelia Cannot find method 'List': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; my @otimes = @times.sort.list;
camelia Cannot find method 'list': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; @times.sort.^methods.say;
camelia {}
timotimo m: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; @times.sort.WHAT.say;
camelia Cannot find method 'say': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; my Mu $thing = @times.sort; $thing.WHAT.say; 01:53
camelia Cannot find method 'say': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; my Mu $thing = @times.sort; $thing.^name.say;
camelia BOOTNumArray
timotimo is it just that sorting a num array gives a too low-level array back?
bisectable6: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; my Mu $thing = @times.sort.List;
bisectable6 timotimo, Bisecting by exit code (old=2015.12 new=34889be). Old exit code: 0
timotimo, bisect log: gist.github.com/9c3d0149f47e12e1fb...0b1d21e9d6
timotimo, (2017-04-09) github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/5c...356ce0c253
AlexDaniel 6c: my num @times; for ^100 { @times.push(1e-10) }; my Mu $thing = @times.sort.List; 01:54
committable6 AlexDaniel, gist.github.com/81d85596ed7d4287fb...c0622184b9
timotimo 6c: my int @times; for ^100 { @times.push(99) }; my Mu $thing = @times.sort.List; 01:55
committable6 timotimo, gist.github.com/62de7134ed3b74673e...8e150d858d
timotimo m: my int @times; say @times.List
camelia ()
cfa m: say (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 100).sort.List 01:56
timotimo 6c: my int @times; for ^100 { @times.push(99) }; say @times.sort.^name;
camelia Cannot find method 'List': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
cfa m: say (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 10).sort.List
camelia (1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10)
committable6 timotimo, gist.github.com/d45eaa4d1c1fe5a998...29ccd6370f
cfa m: say (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 50).sort.List
camelia (1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-1…
cfa hunh
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cfa so 01:56
m: (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 10).sort 01:57
camelia ( no output )
cfa m: (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 100).sort
camelia ( no output )
cfa oh, that fails here
m: say (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 100).sort
camelia Cannot find method 'gist': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo you have to call some method on it
cfa there
timotimo yeah,
impressive that this has been hidden for so long
cfa m: (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 64).sort.say 01:58
camelia 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10…
cfa m: (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 65).sort.say # boom
camelia Cannot find method 'say': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo right
i know what this is
you see, the sort function has an $A and a $B
the $A uses the existing object - well, really a clone of it
er, i mean
it's initialized to be that 01:59
but $B is the result of an nqp::list_n (for num, or nqp::list_i for int, etc)
$A has the type we want, for example numarray, but $B will be BOOTNumArray, a much lower-level type
and the mergesort algorithm swaps $A and $B back and forth, depending on how many runs it does
so if you have the right number of slots in your array, you'll end up with $B, which stands for Boom 02:00
cfa: wanna do a little contribution? because i should go to bed ASAP :)
cfa i can file if that's what you mean, sure
timotimo i suggest you try to replace the nqp::list_* in the initialization of $B with nqp::clone(sortable) and find out if that fixes things, and then you can write tests in roast for this bug 02:01
well, perhaps write the tests first, then fix things
cfa (my num @ = 1e-10 xx 64).sort vs. (my num @ = 1e-10 xx 65).sort seems the simplest demonstration
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timotimo not sure how "strong" the test should be; perhaps it should just compare the .WHAT of the object you call .sort on with the one you get back for different sizes of list? 02:01
m: my num @things; my %results; for ^256 { @things.push(1e-2); %results{@things.sort.^name}.push($_) }; .say for %results 02:03
camelia array[num] => [2 3 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 15…
timotimo m: my num @things; my %results; for ^128 { @things.push(1e-2); %results{@things.sort.^name}.push($_) }; .say for %results
camelia array[num] => [2 3 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63]
BOOTNumArray => [4 5 6 7 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76…
timotimo fun.
cfa: if it's cool with you, you can prepare a rakudo patch and pull-request, too :) 02:04
seeya!
cfa ha ha
timotimo if it's too much for you right now, don't worry, i can do it tomorrow, too 02:07
cfa yeah, don't think i can get to it tonight either, sorry
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cfa but i appreciate your offer 02:07
timotimo all right, i'll drop into bed :) 02:08
cfa sleep well
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Geth rakudo.org: c833860b0d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Implement Compiler Only 3rd-P packages download page
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Geth rakudo.org: d9d4b1099f | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Go by-the-book on component alignment

Fixes subpages, but home page needs more work.		 03:26
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Geth rakudo.org: df5abbe3c9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | post/lexical-module-loading.md
Remove clashing syntax highlights
 03:59
rakudo.org: 922e51d1a8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files
Improve styles on posts pages
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todd I am trying to convert a p5 program over to p6. I have absolutely had it with the bizare subroutine declarations in p5. Is there a way to convert `printf "%-28.28s", "unrecognized status";` into p6 but put the result into a string instead of printing it? 04:18
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Geth rakudo.org: 4d5cc8303b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | assets/sass/main.scss
Fix alignment on home
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Zoffix todd: yeah, just add an "s". The routine is "sprintf" 04:23
m: my $s := sprintf "%-28.28s", "unrecognized status"; say "I totally did not print the $s.chars()-char string `$s`" 04:24
camelia I totally did not print the 28-char string `unrecognized status `
skids m: "unrecognized status".fmt("%-28.28s").say # or that 04:25
camelia unrecognized status
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todd how would I go to a string? 04:26
just found the sprintf from Zoffix 04:27
skids It only printed that because of the .say.
Geth rakudo.org: ae6ac5452e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/Perl6Org/Binaries.pm
Remove left over debug code
todd what does the "m:" mean in Zoffix's replies?
skids It's telling the evalbot to run rakudo-moar 04:28
m == moar
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skids a.k.a. moarvm. 04:28
todd okay is "moar" a p6 command or his name?
skids It's the built-for-rakudo VM. As opposed to say rakudo-jvm. 04:29
todd okay
I had though it was the m/(xxx)/ 04:30
Geth rakudo.org: 1fa169739c | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Hide easter egg better

Win64 Chrome stupidly flashes all the things 100% opaque on page load
rakudo.org: 7eef2abe9e | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Alt fix for easter

Fix jump on load		 04:31
todd Thank you! 04:32
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todd How do I get the name of the subroutine I am in? In P5 this was `( caller(0) )[3]` 05:14
araraloren_ m: sub f() { put &?ROUTINE; }; f
camelia Sub object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that)
f
in sub f at <tmp> line 1
araraloren_ m: sub f() { put &?ROUTINE.gist; }; f
camelia sub f () { #`(Sub|62594920) ... }
todd Thank you!
araraloren_ :) 05:15
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todd Oh boy do I not understand. vpaste.net/EZQk4 05:24
araraloren_ m: vpaste.net/EZQk4 05:26
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3http:7⏏5//vpaste.net/EZQk4
expecting any of:
colon pair
todd take out line one if you are using Windows 05:28
araraloren_ m: paste.ubuntu.com/p/6tMXh3hhQx/
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3https:7⏏5//paste.ubuntu.com/p/6tMXh3hhQx/
expecting any of:
colon pair
araraloren_ seems like there something wrong with camelia :) 05:29
I think 05:30
the code is correctly, on my notebook
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araraloren_ todd so what do you mean ? the `not understand` 05:32
todd A better example: vpaste.net/8bh5k The first part is what baffles me `sub f () { #`(Sub|46578536) ... }`. The second part works 05:35
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araraloren_ m: vpaste.net/8bh5k 05:37
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3http:7⏏5//vpaste.net/8bh5k
expecting any of:
colon pair
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todd camelia, plase qutoe the line that the error is on 05:38
araraloren_ what output do you expected ? 05:40
you print the .gist on &?ROUTINE in f, so it return True 05:41
todd "abc" the name of the subrouitine. I did get it to work, but I don't understand `sub f() { put &?ROUTINE; }; f`
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araraloren_ sorry, I am not get you :) . If you wonder why it output that format 05:46
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araraloren_ m: sub f() { put &?ROUTINE.perl; }; f 05:47
camelia sub f () { #`(Sub|66404184) ... }
araraloren_ The document not document the .gist .perl of Routine class
todd `sub f () { #`(Sub|50396008) ... }` is what I don't understand. Bu since I got it to work otherwise, I guess I don't have to understand. 05:48
araraloren_ todd , docs.perl6.org/routine/gist#class_Mu 05:49
.gist just a respresentation of the routine 05:50
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araraloren_ m: sub f() { put &?ROUTINE.name; }; f 05:51
camelia f
araraloren_ todd you can get the routine name from .name
the routine is a instance of docs.perl6.org/type/Routine 05:52
todd thank you . I wrote it down in my notes 05:53
araraloren_ m: sub f() { given &?ROUTINE { put .name; put .package; put .candidates; } }; f
camelia f
Use of uninitialized value of type GLOBAL in string context.
Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.

f
in block at <tmp> line 1
Sub object coerced to string (please use .gist or .per…
araraloren_ m: sub f() { given &?ROUTINE { put .name; put .package; } }; f
camelia f
Use of uninitialized value of type GLOBAL in string context.
Methods .^name, .perl, .gist, or .say can be used to stringify it to something meaningful.

in block at <tmp> line 1
todd no clue why it is doing that. :'(
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araraloren_ todd .gist should return the code as string `sub f() { put &?ROUTINE.perl; }`, but they not implement it currently 05:56
IMO :)
m: sub f() { put &?ROUTINE.perl; put &?ROUTINE.WHICH; }; f 05:57
camelia sub f () { #`(Sub|49504152) ... }
Sub|49504152
araraloren_ so they print the `ID` of the sub
todd Is the ID the same as the subs's name? or some kind of address? 06:00
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araraloren_ m: module A { our sub f() { }; }; module B { out sub f() { }; }; say A.&f 06:01
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routines:
f used at line 1
out used at line 1. Did you mean 'put'?
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araraloren_ m: module A { our sub f() { }; }; module B { our sub f() { }; }; say &A::f.name; say &B::f.name; say &A::f.WHICH; say &B::f.WHICH; 06:03
camelia f
f
Sub|81695968
Sub|81696120
araraloren_ docs.perl6.org/syntax/WHICH 06:04
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todd Guys Remember I am a beginner! 06:04
araraloren_ so it is a identification of an object :) 06:05
not same as the name of routine
every object has different `ID`
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araraloren_ todd oh, I know it now :) 06:07
todd Apparently the name if the routine is something different that the ID and now I understand. Thank you! 06:09
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araraloren_ YW 06:10
todd converting 6282 line of p5 code to p6 is a pain in the ... But the weird sub declarations of p5 are killing me. 06:13
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araraloren_ :) that's really hard 06:14
good luck :)
todd I am enjoying dumping pointers to complex variables (%@ etc.) and using actual names. I live and die in Top down and I can not have my subs declarations so stinking weird. It is killing me trying to maintain it. So, I am finally pulling the plug on it and going to P6. I am using a Hig Level language for a reason. One if them is to not have to pass pointers (references) around 06:18
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araraloren_ todd perl5 has many things not perfect :) 06:20
actually p5 not have a real type system :) 06:21
or maybe the static type system :)
I am from c/c++, I like the static type system 06:22
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todd I did Modula2 25 years ago. Perl is a real shift, but perfect for what I do now. I ADORE P6's sub declarations. P5's is a nightmare 06:28
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araraloren_ Modula2 ? don't know that language 06:36
todd It was the follow to Pascal
araraloren_ I have to do some cook :) I am hungry now 06:37
oh I see
todd I am busy modifying a ton of sub call with address in them to use "return" 06:38
araraloren_ oh, maybe someday can use a automate tools convert p5 to p6 :) haha 06:39
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todd There is one out there, but it is ten times easier to do by hand. So `$I += 1` on the haha 06:48
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todd Now what am I doing wrong? I can't get past reading :out. vpaste.net/5vSAL 07:39
`curl -L www.gbis.com -o eraseme.html` works fine from the command line 07:40
I can get this to work if I take out the :err from run 07:42
I am following this: docs.perl6.org/routine/run 07:44
FROGGS_ what if you remove that first :close? 07:46
todd will try
no change 07:47
FROGGS_ I'm tryying now too
weird 07:49
it works for me if you swap err and out
in line 13 and 17 I mean
todd testing 07:50
FROGGS_ btw, you're assigning to $RtnStr twice, but that's of course not the issue 07:51
todd Say that. I have all the reading of err commented out 07:52
If I remove :err from, the run line, it works with both `-o -` and `-o eraseme.html` 07:56
I correct the $RtnStr, it is still commented out
FROGGS_ in your paste, $RtnStr = $proc.err.slurp(:close); is not commented 07:57
I believe the reading of .out blocks because in your paste it does not print anything to :out 07:58
but it always prints to :err, perhaps that's why it helps reading from .err first
araraloren_ oh, this, I think you waiting curl close the stdout handle
FROGGS_ it doesnt read from stdin 07:59
because :in is not supplied
so that filehandle should not be open in the first place
todd Who do I do that?
Who do I fix?
FROGGS_ todd: can you try that? gist.github.com/FROGGS/b69f403ee53...b5faebfae4 08:01
todd testing
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todd That worked. What did I do wrong? 08:04
FROGGS_ you read from out first, that that yields nothing
though I am not sure it should block there
araraloren_ If I call proc.status it is working fine 08:05
before reading the stdhout
FROGGS_ aven stranger, no?
even* 08:06
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todd So, I should have read :err first. Hmmmmm. Would you guys correct `docs.perl6.org/routine/run ` to show reading :err first? 08:06
araraloren_ :) I don't think we should read error first
there may be something wrong 08:07
FROGGS_ I too think this is a rakudo or moarvm bug
todd Well, at least I know I am not going out of my mind. Thank you guys! 08:09
araraloren_ add say `$proc.status;` before "say "reading :out";" 08:10
todd try it
say $proc.status
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araraloren_ m: gist.github.com/araraloren/f573ac0...3803c7038e 08:12
camelia run is disallowed in restricted setting
in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1
in sub run at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 14
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 11
araraloren_ :(
todd that worked. Is something amiss in perl 6?
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araraloren_ no, maybe there is a bug 08:13
anyway, you can access .status first avoid this problem 08:14
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todd done! 08:16
Is there a way to group comment out a section of code? I have been using #`{ terminalted with }, but this falls apart if the code I am commenting out has a } in it 08:19
araraloren_ #`()
todd testing
araraloren_ you can use any brackets 08:20
docs.perl6.org/language/syntax#Mul...d_comments
#`[]
todd the code has ) in it too (lots of subs)
araraloren_ Perl6 is still Perl 08:21
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araraloren_ m: #`< this is a comment > print 123; 08:21
camelia 123
todd If you listen to the GROUCHES on the Perl5 mailing list, it is Java.
araraloren_ haha 08:22
todd `=begin comment` Is "comment" anything I want?
araraloren_ IDK pod
seems like it is
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todd Well Perl6 is more like Perl5 FIXED. The sub declarations in p5 are a nightmare 08:25
FROGGS_ well, it is okay with signatures in P5 these days 08:26
araraloren_ Perl6 is support Perl5's sub decaleration
FROGGS_ signatures and postderef makes P5 quite awesome again
araraloren_ yeah :)
FROGGS_ or postfixderef or what it is called
FROGGS_ hacks Mojolicious at $work using 5.24, and enjoys it very much 08:27
my coworker has to write ABAP in SAP, and this is a nightmare, believe me
todd I live and die by Top Down. It is imparative that the subs be easily understandable at a glance. 08:31
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todd I wrote a really sweet pm6 to interface with curl to send eMail and to download webpages and files. Would you guys like it? It would make a really sweet module 08:32
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ufobat___ what is the difference between OpaquePointer and Pointer in NativeCall, or where is it documented? 08:40
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araraloren_ todd yeah, if you have good idea, you should make it to a module 08:43
ufobat___ I think OpaquePointer is something internal 08:44
todd I don't know how to do that officially. The pm6 work for me.
araraloren_ the document has some about how to make a module
and there are many module you can refer
docs.perl6.org/language/modules.html 08:45
But actually I don't know module of Perl6 well
titsuki_ ufobat__: I added it in the past: docs.perl6.org/language/faq#What's...uePointer?
araraloren_ titsuki_ awesome 08:46
todd oh no. I already have it made. I was wanting to share it, if you guys were interested.
araraloren_ yeah, that's what the document talk about 08:47
todd I see it now: docs.perl6.org/language/modules.ht...le_to_CPAN 08:50
Thank you!
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ufobat araraloren_, so i just use "Pointer", :) 08:51
Kaiepi i had no idea i could use Buf with NativeCall for Str pointers until earlier today 08:52
particularly with strings i want to allocate before passing to a native function hastebin.com/zufudupumu.pl 08:53
araraloren_ Kaiepi then you should use CArray 08:55
github.com/bduggan/p6-digest-sha1-...ve.pm6#L16
Kaiepi i was using a CArray[uint8] before, but it was segfaulting unless i was defining it like my CArray[uint8] $output .= new: (0,0...*)[0..^$outputlen] then creating another Buf to pass to Net::LibIDN::StringPrep.ucs4_to_utf8 08:58
*CArray[uint32] 09:01
nah i was right the first time
note to self: try not to program in the middle of the night 09:03
araraloren_ haha 09:04
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araraloren_ what is punycode_encode / 09:04
？
Kaiepi it's from www.gnu.org/software/libidn/ 09:06
i'm planning on porting Net::DNS to perl6, but i need to port its dependencies over first
araraloren_ what is allocate ? 09:08
seems like buf8 should work
oh I know it
Kaiepi punycode_encode seems to depend on the output buffer already being allocated before it gets passed, so using CArray[uint8].new alone doesn't work 09:11
araraloren_ The example module I give you is do the right things 09:12
Kaiepi $output isn't a 0 terminated array when it gets passed to the function, though 09:14
from libidn's documentation it can be if i make $outputlen -1 though 09:15
*$inputlen 09:16
like i said i should think this over once i get some sleep lol
araraloren_ yeah, night :)_ 09:17
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El_Che wow, lots of activity on the night of my timezone. Good tonsee that! 09:57
ufobat .tell sergot I need your help for my PR. I dont know what I am doing, but I need to set the &verfiy-callback 10:22
yoleaux ufobat: I'll pass your message to sergot.
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titsuki_ m: my $p = start { sleep 10; 10 }; say await Promise.anyof(Promise.in(0),$p).then: { $p.result }; 10:58
camelia 10 10:59
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titsuki_ m: gist.github.com/titsuki/17e748a5f9...aa7fddfe2e 11:32
camelia Proc::Async is disallowed in restricted setting
in sub restricted at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 1
in method new at src/RESTRICTED.setting line 32
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
titsuki_ oh... 11:33
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Geth Pod-To-HTML: JJ++ created pull request #34:
Adds support for classes in Tables		 11:42
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araraloren_ hi 11:53
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moritz ho 12:00
pmurias m: say 1e+23 * 6.0221409e0 == 60221409e+23 12:06
camelia False
pmurias m: say 1e+23 * 6.0221409e0 12:07
camelia 6.0221409e+23
pmurias ^^ this seems like a bug doesn't it?
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El_Che m: say 1e+23 * 6.0221409e0 == 6.0221409e+23 12:08
camelia True
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timotimo Kaiepi: we do already have an implementation of punycode in the ecosystem, i believe 13:01
Kaiepi: github.com/FROGGS/p6-IDNA-Punycode 13:02
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Kaiepi timotimo, this is more or less to keep compatibility with p5's Net::LibiDN library 13:19
timotimo OK 13:22
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Kaiepi IDNA::Punycode::encode_punycode is equivalent to what Net::LibIDN::to_ascii_8z will be 13:23
*Net::LibIDN.to_ascii_8z 13:25
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Unavowed Is it possible to emit a Failure from a Supplier::Preserving? Calling $s.emit(fail("message")); seems to hang 13:28
timotimo the call to fail would fail out of the routine you're calling fail in 13:31
what you'll want to use is probably just Failure.new
Unavowed that makes sense, thanks 13:34
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Unavowed something seems wrong still - depending on how I consume the Supply output I can sometimes see the Failure but the .emit() call doesn't return 13:40
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Unavowed pastebin.com/w987kmun 13:40
this works for /bin/true but hangs for /bin/false 13:41
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Unavowed I want to asynchronously forward the stdout lines from a process but appending a Failure object if the process had a non-zero exit code 13:41
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timotimo you're not awaiting the start block; maybe it died with an exception on its own 13:43
then the .list call on the supply would wait forever for the supplier to be done
for this kind of code, it's worthwhile to have a supply block instead of a start + a Supplier, because it handles failure and exceptions and such for you 13:44
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Unavowed i see 13:45
tbrowder_ timotimo: useful info for concurrency noobs, thnx 13:46
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tbrowder_ the docs need a good concurrency tutorial i think 13:47
timotimo the way a supply block actually runs could be a bit strange if you think of it as "replacement for start"
m: my $sup = supply { say "the supply block is run"; emit 1; say "emitted one" }; $sup.tap({ .say }); $sup.tap({ say "second tap $_" }); 13:48
camelia the supply block is run
1
emitted one
the supply block is run
second tap 1
emitted one
timotimo as you can see the body of the supply block is run twice. that's because it runs every time it gets tapped
m: my $sup = supply { say "the supply block is run"; emit 1; say "emitted one" }; say "after the supply block definition"; my $sharedsup = $sup.share; say "set up a shared sup"; $sharedsup.tap({ .say }); $sharedsup.tap({ say "second tap $_" }); say "finished"; 13:49
camelia after the supply block definition
the supply block is run
emitted one
set up a shared sup
finished
timotimo ^- and supply blocks aren't "preserving" so to speak
m: my $sup = supply { say "spply block runs"; whenever Promise.in(1) { say "time's up!"; emit 1; say "emitted one" } }; say "after the supply block definition"; my $sharedsup = $sup.share; say "set up a shared sup"; $sharedsup.tap({ .say }); $sharedsup.tap({ say "second tap $_" }); say "finished"; react whenever $sharedsup { say "react whenever" }; say "script over" 13:50
camelia after the supply block definition
spply block runs
set up a shared sup
finished
time's up!
1
second tap 1
react whenever
emitted one
script over
timotimo ^- i hope this isn't too confusing 13:51
tbrowder_ i’m wrestling with zoffix’s Proc::Q, it leaves orphan procs. i am experimenting with changes with it now but won’t be able to check results for some hours.
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Unavowed hmm, that doesn't seem to fit my use case - I only want to tap into the Proc::Async .stdout once 13:53
so far I got the code to work with a supply block for /bin/false and /bin/true but if there is any output from the process then I get a nice and long perl6 stack trace 13:54
pastebin.com/rkteSrpe
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timotimo yes, you'll want to subscribe to the stdout.lines with a "whenever" block 13:56
and likely use whenever instead of await for the $proc-async.start as well 13:57
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timotimo m: say (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 65).sort.List 14:04
camelia Cannot find method 'List': no method cache and no .^find_method
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo ^- this fixed locally
cfa timotimo: nice one 14:07
Unavowed pastebin.com/9gmNHXiM - this works nicely for /bin/true and /bin/ls but hangs for /bin/false
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AlexDaniel araraloren_: camelia knows nothing about arbitrary URLs, only github/gitlab/bitbucket are supported 14:14
araraloren_: but you can use evalable6 for the same purpose with any link 14:15
e: vpaste.net/EZQk4
evalable6 AlexDaniel, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL.
sub f () { #`(Sub|94645469442832) ... }
This subroutine is called True
araraloren_ oh AlexDaniel thanks
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cfa m: say (my num @times = 1e-10 xx 65).sort.List 15:02
camelia (1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-10 1e-1…
cfa neat
El_Che releasable6: status 15:06
releasable6 El_Che, Next release in ≈3 hours. Blockers: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues?q=...%9A%A0%22. Changelog for this release was not started yet
El_Che, Details: gist.github.com/b9c269e953f4e8abd2...2a3f626f43
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cfa so, in the language docs we have '5to6-nutshell' with subtitle 'Perl 5 to Perl 6, in a nutshell: How do I do what I used to do? 15:23
any objections to retitling this 'Perl 5 to Perl 6 - Nutshell' with subtitle 'How do I do what I used to do?'
that would bring it in line with the haskell, python, ruby docs
Geth ecosystem: fe3e6d8379 | loren++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
add App::FindSource

search your source file with perl6 :)		 15:24
cfa same applies for the other 5to6 docs
araraloren_ :) I upload the findsource script to ecosystem now
El_Che cfa: the expression is "in a nutshell" 15:25
stmuk cfa: "in a nutshell" was used by O'Reilly in their book titles and is familiar to people
El_Che isolating nutshell is kind of weird for me
cfa agreed 15:26
i can modify the other titles
(see docs.perl6.org/language.html, take a look at how haskell/python/ruby are listed) 15:27
but my question is whether there're objections to titling these pages, or whether the existing slug titles are preferable 15:28
El_Che "Perl 5 to Perl 6 guide - overview
AlexDaniel cfa: +1 for consistency with other docs 15:31
cfa i'll push something in a se
sec
Geth doc: c49337be58 | cfa++ | 5 files
Title the 5to6-* language pages.
 15:34
cfa AlexDaniel: if you're rather '- Nutshell' for consistency please edit :)
you'd*
i went with El_Che's suggestion 15:35
AlexDaniel okay that didn't make it consistent :D
cfa indeed 15:36
stmuk the file still says "nutshell" in it (and that will be visible from "p6doc -l")
cfa that doesn't strike me as problematic
stmuk it would still odd to me to do "p6doc foo" and not see the text foo in the result at all 15:37
s/still/seem
cfa it's in the subtitle, but okay
docs.perl6.org/language/haskell-to-p6 15:38
that's titled '- Nutshell' but it's not in the filename fyi 15:39
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stmuk hahaha 15:39
cfa let's wait for docs.perl6.org, see what everyone thinks? 15:40
(or, wait for docs.perl6.org to reflect the change) 15:41
sigh. s/or/er
timotimo you know, i still think it'd be really cool if we had something like a _branches/ for docs.perl6.org where we'd build the site for non-master branches of the docs repo 15:42
though maybe it'd be wiser to have a subdomain-based approach instead
stmuk I wish we just thought of the source doc pod6 and the website as more different with the website just one possible view of the docs 15:44
ie. p6doc and website generation code in different repos 15:45
cfa stmuk: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/729 (somewhat related) 15:46
stmuk cfa: I was puzzled by that. Generate pod6 from what? Surely pod6 should be our source docs format 15:47
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cfa i think the request is to assemble all cross references etc. first 15:51
then generate html
i'm going by [Coke]'s reading
El_Che maybe not to popular, but I would hate if the html was limited by the pod6 source. I was surprised my self, but I only use the doc site to look things up, not used the pod once. I am pretty sure that this is the case for people younger than me 15:53
cfa p6doc is quite slow on my machine
El_Che I am also under the impression that everyone loves markdown, and pod is something obscure for most people 15:54
cfa so i find browsing the docs more pleasant in the browser
El_Che I hate when I have to read pod files on guthub
github
moritz El_Che: my impression as well
El_Che (although guthub is not bad, I should register that)
stmuk I'm not arguing against websites in general but in flavour of other ways of viewing the pod6 (including possible new websites) 15:55
^ favour
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El_Che I think the pod story is something from when perl 6 was supposed to replace 5 15:55
stmuk: the question if the process is pod centered (e.g. how to document modules) or we can generate pod too 15:56
cfa i don't think pod is really a barrier to doc contribution
stmuk are you proposing moving all existing documentation from pod6 to markdown? 15:57
cfa okay, the retitled 5to6 pages are live
lmk whether you'd prefer some retitling
(you plural)
El_Che stmuk: I wouldn't migrate anything for now. Just decide on future guidelines, e.g. for modules authors 15:58
atm module documentation is a mess
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stmuk the typical module uses a README.md which isn't installed by zef 15:59
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El_Che met quite a few with pod in the code somewhere in lib 15:59
about, zef, for me that's a feature 16:00
stmuk I'm not even a fan of either pod or pod6 but I still think that ultimately perl6 documentation should be written in that form and the HTML generated from it (and allow other websites to be generated)
but that strongly coupling one website HTML with the source pod6 is a mistake 16:01
cfa the only thing that i dislike about pod is forgetting =back and =cut
which i do all the time
stmuk El_Che: I think there isn't a spec for how docs are installed ... there was some talk of it as a "resource" in the past
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Geth rakudo.org: 8b9c1d06d8 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Extract build prereqs to a separate template fragment
 16:11
thowe is DB::Pg something that can be installed with zef? 16:13
stmuk thowe: you probably want DBIish 16:16
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thowe or, if I use rakudobrew, where should I put DB:Pg repo? 16:17
mm, no, I want to try DB:Pg I think
16:18 pierre left
thowe Looks more like Mojo. 16:18
16:18 cognominal left
stmuk oh from NASA! 16:19
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thowe I've never quite figured out where to put perl6 libs yet... Don't know what equiv of PERL%LIB is 16:20
er PERL5LIB
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El_Che thowe: PERL6LIB 16:22
-I does also work
pretty much the same was as in Perl 5
thowe Cool, that's new since TPC 2016 then
Geth rakudo.org: 05510a36c0 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | templates/files-star-source.html.ep
Make from sauce instructions always build latest
El_Che zef works differently as cpan though. Eg if run from a global install it will install it globally (like cpan). But if run from a local install it will install stuff in ~/.perl6 16:24
thowe how do I tell what the path is now?
El_Che zef gets them at install time 16:25
thowe er, no, just for perl6
is there a special array or something? 16:26
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thowe If I grab PG:Db from github, where should I put it? 16:26
maybe that's a more concise qustion
stmuk you use zef to install it and its precompiled 16:27
El_Che docs.perl6.org/language/modules#Finding_Modules
thowe zef didn't seem to like it
cool
El_Che "It is up to the module installer to know where compunit expects modules to be placed. There will be a location provided by the distribution and in the current home directory"
cfa thowe: you can echo $PERL6LIB from a shell to see whether it's set, or take a look at $*REPO (though that's not really the same as p5's @INC) 16:28
stmuk -I and PERL6LIB are intended for local dev of your own modules and have a syntax including a "inst#" type path
cfa m: $*REPO.say
camelia inst#/home/camelia/.perl6
El_Che in my packages, if zef is run as root from /opt/rakudo-pkg/bin/zef it will install the modules in /opt/rakudo-pkg. If ~/.perl6/bin/zef is run, it will install them in ~/.perl6. The perl6 command will find the modules automatically 16:29
Geth rakudo.org: e5a642a315 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | templates/files-star-source.html.ep
Fix latest sauce URL
rakudo.org: aa3985ac3d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | templates/files-star-source.html.ep
Fix typo
 16:30
cfa m: .say for $*REPO.repo-chain
camelia inst#/home/camelia/.perl6
inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/site
inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6/vendor
inst#/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/perl6
CompUnit::Repository::AbsolutePath.new(next-repo => CompUnit::Re…
cfa thowe: btw, the path separator for PERL6LIB is comma, not colon 16:31
PERL6LIB=/foo/bar,/baz/qux not PERL6LIB=/foo/bar:/baz/qux 16:32
El_Che because we're weird 16:33
thowe cfa: ah, thanks!
stmuk "zef install DB::Pg" looks like it would work for me if I installed libuuid.so and maybe some more
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thowe use DP:Pg , yes? 16:34
moritz needs two :
thowe ah
I shoul dhave known that 16:35
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Geth rakudo.org: 77bf62528a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
Add rakudo sauce only install instructions
 16:39
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thowe now if I could just figure out how to set a username and password for the db... 16:41
cfa .new takes a :conninfo pair 16:43
Geth rakudo.org: 568e8c5442 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 6 files
Make "need help" para fade in after 5s
cfa www.postgresql.org/docs/10/static/...CONNSTRING 16:44
so i think you want DB::Pg.new(conninfo => 'postgresql://[user[:password]@][netloc][:port][,...][/dbname][?param1=value1&...]')
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cfa where that string needs to satisfy your connection requirements (i pasted it from the postgresql page linked above) 16:44
so something like DB::Pg.new(conninfo => 'postgresql://user:secret@localhost') 16:45
thowe so, I have the lib dir that has DB in it in perl6lib. That is being looked at, but when I use DB::Pg; it says it can't find it. tried perl6lib and perl6lib/lib 16:46
Could not find DB::Pg at line 1 in: /home/tim/perl6lib etc...
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thowe when i set it to the lib dir: Could not find epoll at line 1 in: /home/tim/perl6lib/lib 16:47
also seems to look in .perl6
stmuk it will be a lot easier to use zef to install DB::Pg 16:49
thowe I have no doubt, but then I wouldn't learn anything here...
Geth rakudo.org: 90dc7cb0db | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
Add crumbs to compiler-only pages
 16:50
stmuk you will have to install all the deps as well including LibUUID, epoll 16:51
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thowe ah, so .../lib/" is correct and epoll is a dependancy. 16:52
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thowe LibUUID fails tests... :( 16:56
stmuk is the shared object I refered to above install? 16:57
thowe libuuid.so <- that? 16:58
stmuk yes
thowe good question...
I have uuid installed, but apparently that doesn't provide this lib... 17:00
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thowe I think I need uuid-dev maybe 17:01
\o/ thanks stmuk 17:02
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stmuk good luck! 17:05
thowe API appears to have changed since the reddit port... 17:08
well, queries work... Man I am glad to have a REPL 17:11
I wrote my first Perl6 script! Fist pump! 17:12
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Geth rakudo.org: d7848ca546 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/RakudoOrg/Posts.pm
Flushify <ol>s in blog posts
 19:09
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hankache hello #perl6 19:11
moritz \o hankache 19:12
thowe hi
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Zoffix Is use.perl.org still a thing? There's a bunch of URLs on rakudo.org referencing stuff like use.perl.org/~pmichaud/journal/39411 but those links timeout now. 19:14
moritz I think it worked a few days ago 19:15
Zoffix ok, then I'll check in a few days 19:17
El_Che moritz: really? I though it was dead for a long time 19:18
not confusing it with blogs?
cfa it's still documented in 5.26.1's docs 19:20
"It no longer accepts updates, but you can still use the site to read old entries and comments."
El_Che web.archive.org/web/20170815070214/....perl.org/ 19:25
it was frozen in 2010, maybe they pulled the plug
moritz El_Che: oh, maybe i'm confusing things, yes
El_Che the last poll on it was "What I like most about perl 5.10" 19:26
I am happy it wasn't "will you upload once version 6 is out?" :) 19:27
masak confirming it was frozen back then. that's when I got my own domain for my blog.
El_Che: "upload", as in ascend to a digital state of being? :P 19:28
El_Che masak: it was 2010, we thought everything was possible :)
on the mirror, a rakudo release based on parrot is announced 19:29
cfa hmm
masak ah yes, Parrot
19:29 Zoffix left
masak register-based, CPS-based, async IO 19:30
El_Che 1 vm to rule them all
masak nothing wrong with the idea as such 19:31
El_Che The following people contributed to this release: Solomon Foster, Moritz Lenz, Jonathan Worthington, Martin Berends, chromatic, Carl Masak, snarkyboojum, Stefan O'Rear, Reini Urban, Jonathan Scott Duff, takadonet, Christoph Otto, isBEKaml, ash_, bubaflub, Jimmy Zhuo, Peter Lobsinger and Patrick Abi Salloum
masak: you're a survivor
:)
masak misses sorear
moritz too 19:32
wander what ey are up to, hm?
El_Che nietzca guy?
masak probably being wildly brilliant in some organization somewhere
El_Che: "niecza", yes 19:33
masak is to blame for the name
moritz blames masak
masak there was a Czech music video which had been subtitled hilariously in Swedish... :) 19:34
...and sorear asked me "what should I name my Perl 6 implementation?"
so I told him to name it "niecza", as a contraction of the name of that song
El_Che masak: you doomed him
he wrote the implementation alone? 19:35
masak largely
El_Che wow
masak I remember colomon++ helping him a bit
geekosaur has encountered evidence of sorear in multiple contexts. tends to do something for a bit and then move on
masak but yes, he is the closest we've had to reaching au++ levels of "hare" productivity
there was a time just before or during the ng refactor when niecza was clearly better than rakudo in a number of ways 19:36
geekosaur remembers that
El_Che the moving on from parrot left a lot of scars. Niecza seem to just have vanished 19:37
thowe github last updated in 2014
Jan, 2014
masak El_Che: I seem to remember sorear saying something to the effect that ng had made niecza obsolete 19:38
moritz El_Che: Stefan found out that he preferred writing software that end users used directly
Geth doc: de1ae72470 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | xt/duplicates.t
Exclude false positives on stuff like `C C<Str>`
19:38 lizmat left
El_Che yet, he's working on the opensource sparc implementation it seem 19:38
s
Geth doc: ff6469986a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 4 files
s:g/Perl )>\d/Perl /
 19:39
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Geth doc: 589bdcdb7a | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
Use less-proper English

  - To not trigger "space after comma" test
  - Also looks prettier		 19:44
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
doc: 07416ef2ae | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Make xtest passs
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Geth doc/post-release-2018.03: 14 commits pushed by (Will "Coke" Coleda)++, cfa++, (Tom Browder)++, (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++, (Zoffix Znet)++
review: github.com/perl6/doc/compare/73602...ede1c3cad9		 19:46
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Zoffix moritz: does www.p6c.org have IPv6 address? I'm preparing all the info pmichaud will need for moving rakudo.org 19:58
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Zoffix nm, got it github.com/perl6/infrastructure-do...od#network 20:03
20:03 Zoffix left 20:04 dct left
moritz Zoffix, I can bind an IPv6 address specifically for rakudo.org to the interface 20:08
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moritz .tell Zoffix just added 2001:780:101:ff00::80:A as an IPv6 address for rakudo.org to www.p6c.org 20:15
yoleaux moritz: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
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Geth infrastructure-doc: 2caf0df4b5 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | hosts/www.p6c.org.pod
List rakudo.org's IPv6 address

  irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2018-03-17#i_15933803		 20:24
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thowe My "Perl 6 Fundamentals" book arrived via Royal Mail! Royal! 20:29
20:30 pierre left
thowe God save the queen! 20:31
moritz hums the Anthem 20:32
El_Che The Sex Pistols' version, I hope 20:33
thowe My favorite TV shows are all British. I watch Edwardian Farm and the others like that over and over again like a maniac.
God save Peter Ginn!
I wish they would put those on Netflix. 20:34
The Grammars book is bigger than the Fundamentals book 20:35
moritz can confirm :-) 20:37
thowe gotta get a pencil out and do this sudoku puzzle 20:38
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thowe so, please correct me if I am wrong, but "context" isn't a thing in Perl6, right? 20:40
El_Che thowe: that depends on the context 20:41
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thowe that's a paddlin... :| 20:41
moritz thowe: in Perl 6, context is more of a standard library feature than a language feature
Geth rakudo.org: 2a318262d1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 53 files
Copy 100% of blog posts from old rakudo.org

May as well keep the old ones for historical reasons
moritz in perl 5, a function knows which context (scalar/list/void) it's called in
thowe so, I see this gather take structure thingy... It it correct to say gather returns an array or a list? 20:42
moritz in perl 6, a function just returns an object, and that object might know what to in a string or in a numeric context
so basically the context decision is delayed
thowe: a sequence actually, but close enough
thowe Sweet baby zombie Jesus... I'm gonna have fun at work again. 20:45
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Geth rakudo.org: c12600fd1d | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 3 files
Hide posts older than 1.5y under "Archived Posts" button
 20:47
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thowe Perl6 is an interesting mix of the familiar and comfortable and the WTF and weird. 20:50
20:50 eliasr left
thowe and I mean that in an appreciative and fun way. It's "charming" one might say. 20:52
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moritz so you say it's "charming", not charming :-) 20:55
El_Che thowe programming Perl 6: pbs.twimg.com/media/DYhB5FZX4AUKf3N.jpg <-- he looks happy
moritz (ignore me, i'm just trolling)
20:56 FROGGS joined
thowe looks like he grasping for air 20:56
gasping
El_Che that depends on the context :) 20:57
thowe I'll rephrase: Perl6 is an charming mix of the familiar and comfortable and the WTF and weird. 20:59
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thowe s/an/a/ 21:02
Geth rakudo.org/downloads-logger: 4b2df2a879 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 5 files
Stash downloads logger

Started of as a good idea, but since we list commands to install from 3rd party packages right on the pages, we've no good way of knowing whether or not a user actually simply installed something by running
  "docker pull rakudo-star", which would make the logged data
participation-biased AF, so there's little point in logging it.		 21:16
moritz m: say 42
camelia 42
mst thowe: note that there's mnore than one perl5 implementation of gather/take, albeit they're not quite as cool as the real thing 21:18
moritz one of them from me :-) 21:20
thowe mst, dude. Long time no chat. How are you? 21:23
mst not bad 21:24
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El_Che mst: that sounds as not good 21:26
hopefully it's just the lack of intonation (of shouting) of irc 21:27
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mst it's an english-ism - 'not bad' / 'not so bad' is kinda like 'yeah, alright' 21:27
TEttinger similar to lagom in svenska, right? 21:28
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El_Che mst: yeah, I know it, same as in Dutch 21:29
TEttinger probably lots of languages have some word for "not great, but at least it isn't bad"
21:29 hankache left
TEttinger El_Che: "nat baad", maybe? 21:29
:) 21:30
mst El_Che: I periodically get 'that sounds as not good' non-ironically from USians
El_Che wel, in dutch "not bad" with the right tone means "great"
TEttinger it's kinda funny how close dutch and english can be sometimes, and how not at others
mst blames the rebellious colonials and their fear of the letter 'u'
FROGGS El_Che: same in german
mst El_Che: definitely 'not bad at all' means 'great' 21:31
TEttinger similar to "nothing wrong with that"
El_Che TEttinger: read 'The Canterbury Tales"
21:31 teun_ left
TEttinger heh, wasn't that old english or middle english? 21:31
El_Che I am under the impression that knowing dutch is more helpful than modern English
TEttinger for reading the canterbury tales, you mean? 21:32
El_Che in general, but yes :)
TEttinger I bet that makes sense. some languages change less than others for weird reasons, like Icelandic is almost the same as Old Norse, just with newer vocabulary
they use letters like eth and thorn that haven't been used except by them and the Vikings 21:33
meanwhile Mongolian has changed tremendously since the language spoken by Genghis Khan, in about the same time frame 21:34
from what I understand if someone spoke Old Mongol in Ulaan Bataar today, they would be unintelligible. probably similar with Old English and modern UK or US english 21:35
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El_Che TEttinger: I read quite a lot of early 17th century spanish, dutch and french 21:37
only Spanish looks like it was written yesterday (with some minor spelling changes) 21:38
TEttinger wow, that's neat
french uses some ligatures way less, like the "oe" is one letter in "oeil" for eye
El_Che and the interesting part was that a lot of expressions that are unknown in Spain and popular in Latin America (and are thus received as typical latinamerican) are in fact spanish 21:39
TEttinger but the "oe" ligature isn't usually on keyboards
wow
El_Che lot of them were used by the king in his letters
expression that nowadays are considered lower class
in Latin America
and non exisitant in Spain
complete mindfuck
TEttinger funny how that happens
and "..." comes from portugal apparently 21:40
El_Che isn't it a perl 6 thing?
TEttinger they found some incredibly old merchant document that has an odd form of ..., like vertically
which I wouldn't be surprised if P6 could handle vertical splats 21:41
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TEttinger ah, it was @ not ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_sign#History 21:44
apenstaartje 21:46
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Geth rakudo.org: c9abc2d5e2 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | assets/sass/main.scss
Implement print sheet
 21:58
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AlexDaniel Can anybody recommend me some cool terminal emulator? Final Term looked promising but it is abandoned, Upterm is using Electron so not an option for me, Terminator is no longer a thing it seems, Terminology is probably not what I'm looking for also (but it looks kinda ok), st is obviously not what I need because that shit is broken (at least last time I looked at it). Currently I'm using urvxt 22:14
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El_Che AlexDaniel: I am happy with Gnome-Terminal. Am I a bad person? 22:16
AlexDaniel El_Che: I don't know, haven't tried that
MasterDuke AlexDaniel: github.com/Swordfish90/cool-retro-term
AlexDaniel but generally I like developer-oriented tools, so hoping to find something to resemble that… I know it sounds funny if we're talking about terminal emulators 22:17
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AlexDaniel for example in file managers there's this range from “this thing can't open a terminal cd-ed to the current path” to “omg I can assign a keyboard shortcut to any button!” 22:18
so my set of tools goes kinda like this: i3, spacefm, nomacs, urvxt… You see, it doesn't really fit there, definitely there must be something better than just urvxt? 22:20
MasterDuke: I've seen that, yes… but I'm looking for something practical I think 22:23
mst possibly www.leonerd.org.uk/code/pangoterm/ ?
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MasterDuke AlexDaniel: yeah, i don't use it regularly, but it's fun to show off 22:25
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AlexDaniel heh, this is interesting: xiki.org/screencasts/ 22:27
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MasterDuke ah, i'd see that a while ago. remindes me of TermKit github.com/unconed/TermKit 22:31
El_Che what does a terminal have to do except non sucking at rendering text? 22:32
22:33 andrzejku left
AlexDaniel near-infinite history would be nice, clickable urls and file paths 22:33
El_Che collegues that use windows use terminals on steroids like MobaXTerm
AlexDaniel supporting unicode properly (at least not breaking up when pasting emojis)
El_Che on my linux machine, I just need ctl+alt+t to open the terminal
gnome-terminal has clickable urls and infinite buffer 22:34
unicode looks ok to me
let me check paths
TEttinger I usse cmder on windows 22:35
El_Che it doesn't do much with paths (but I don't know what's supposed to do)
AlexDaniel El_Che: a dropdown with options sounds reasonable 22:36
El_Che: maybe take a look at Final Term for some inspiration :)
El_Che for urls you get "open link" and "copy link address"
AlexDaniel hmm
El_Che nothing for path 22:37
but that's more of a bash thing in my workflow
AlexDaniel right
El_Che xfce-terminal was kind of OK 22:38
MasterDuke i like konsole just fine
El_Che en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilda_(software) 22:39
this sounds leet
japhb El_Che: Re: gnome-terminal paths: If you are in a terminal and cd to ~/foo/bar/baz and then hit the shortcut to start a new terminal, it will spawn the new shell with CWD=~/foo/bar/baz. 22:45
I use that all the time to go into a working tree and open several terminals there. 22:46
El_Che japhb: yes, that's something I find pretty useful
same here
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Zoffix AlexDaniel: what did you use to check for bad links on the docs site? 23:12
moritz: how is SSL setup on docs.perl6.org? I'm getting SSl warnings from link checker: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/2070938...1db5ae6af9 says doesn't match "alerts.perl6.org"... Maybe I messed stuff up? IIRC I've used certbot to setup alerts.perl6.org cert 23:17
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Zoffix ZofBot: nobody knows... 23:24
ZofBot Zoffix, [freebsd] Build failed. See the output at fpaste.scsys.co.uk/575932
yoleaux 16 Mar 2018 22:32Z <samcv> ZofBot: no it isn't current
thowe I assume I can create an array of hash much the same way as in perl5? 23:25
AlexDaniel Zoffix: checklink -b -D 25 -q doc.perl6.org | tee "$(date '+%F')" 23:26
El_Che thowe: yes
23:26 ZofBot joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v ZofBot
AlexDaniel a depth of 25 may be too deep for your purpose fwiw 23:26
El_Che although you can skip the reference syntax 23:27
thowe El_Che, Oh?
Geth rakudo.org: 4260d5779b | (Zoffix Znet)++ | 2 files
Add exception pages
Zoffix AlexDaniel: thanks.
thowe: there ain't no references in Perl 6; we got containers instead perl6advent.wordpress.com/2017/12/02/ 23:29
Well, not instead, but similar to 23:30
thowe Zoffix, thanks!
El_Che m: my @a = { a => 1, b => 1}, {a => 2, b => 2}; say @a[0]{"a"} 23:31
camelia 1
El_Che ^-- thowe 23:32
m: my @a = { a => 1, b => 1}, {a => 2, b => 2}; say @a[0]<a>
camelia 1
El_Che maybe more ideomatic
m: my @a = { a => 1, b => 1}, {a => 2, b => 2}; my %h = @a[1]; say %h<b> 23:33
camelia 2
El_Che you don't have to dereference
thowe \o/
My Ruby-loving compatriot will like that 23:34
El_Che he'll dislike the ';' though 23:35
thowe That sonofagun has been trying to rewrite my invoice processor for months and failing to understand the details. I'll have this sunnybeach whipped up in a week.
El_Che ubris, the privilege of gods! 23:36
thowe Don't need to confuse things with an integer math lib, and DateTime is built in. I'll smash this sucker. 23:37
Zoffix m: my @a = %(:1a, :1b), %(:2a, :2b) andthen my %h := @a.tail andthen say %h<b>
camelia 2
El_Che showoff :)
Zoffix :)
thowe OK, let's not hurt my head
I haven't figured out what these :things are yet. 23:38
Zoffix huggable: colonpair
huggable Zoffix, All the shortcuts of colonpairs: twitter.com/zoffix/status/839807414211854337
Zoffix thowe: ^ colonpairs. There's a billion shortcuts for them, because they're very commonb
El_Che thowe: be careful or Zoffix will throw some urf8 into the mix
Zoffix m: sub term:<¯\_(ツ)_/¯> { say "what head hurt?" }; ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 23:39
camelia what head hurt?
El_Che :)
thowe I'm writing this in ruby-ish baby Perl6 so that my billing person doesn't have a sad. 23:41
and because that will be the extent of my power for a while
El_Che thowe: throw some concurrency in the mix, that seems to impress ruby people
thowe Well, the actual calculator may become a higher order function generator thingy... 23:42
But that's just because I had fun learning what those were from Damian Conway. 23:43
El_Che perl 6 kept the foot-in-your-foot-by-writing-code-noone-understands feature of perl 5. So use with moderation 23:44
thowe I attended a class a couple of years ago on a whim. I didn't get to stick around for the whole thing because I had to fly home, but it was worth it.
AlexDaniel MasterDuke: Termite is perhaps something to consider if you're using vim?
thowe The Perl6 folks I met in Orlando were very nice and fun.
AlexDaniel “Uses OpenGL for rendering, offloads rendering to the GPU for lower system load and buttery smooth scrolling. Uses threaded rendering to minimize input latency.” 23:49
something you don't expect to read about a terminal emulator ↑ :) 23:50
El_Che ↑: it mines monero when not in focus 23:51
AlexDaniel CPU usage: kitty 6 - 8%, gnome-terminal 15 - 17% 23:52
if anything is mining coins, then it's gnome-terminal :) 23:53
ah
sorry, CPU usage!
El_Che gnome-shell is pretty crappy cpu wise
AlexDaniel of course it wouldn't use CPU for that
El_Che it uses some cpu to throw you off track :) 23:54
AlexDaniel El_Che: “what does a terminal have to do except non sucking at rendering text?” what about this: “Allows you to open the scrollback buffer in a separate window using arbitrary programs of your choice. This is useful for browsing the history comfortably in a pager or editor.” 23:55
El_Che sounds useful when using screen and wanting to scroll (crap shortcuts :) ) 23:57
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