»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 22 December 2015.
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Zoffix .tell lucasb I'm not the gatekeeper of modules.perl6.org. It's open source. You got commit bit. Write code. 00:17
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to lucasb.
Zoffix |4d make rakudo.org serve static files statically 00:18
ZofBot Zoffix, Will remind you on 2018-05-12T20:18:00.902442-04:00 about make rakudo.org serve static files statically
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Zoffix stmuk: I'll make it statically serve files on the weekend (pretty busy before that). Unless someone beats me. Basically these two routes need to do the magic and redirect to static files, I guess and I'm guessing apache's config will need to be tweaked to serve a particular dir without proxying it to rakudo.org app: github.com/perl6/rakudo.org/blob/m...l#L82-L103 00:20
Zoffix &
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Zoffix timotimo: ingy I fixed that Test::Builder issue. I didn't know you were talking about it here. 00:21
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uzl comborico1611: On top of Euler Project , you might want to look at the exercises for Perl 6 on exercism.io/languages/perl6/about 01:51
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perlawhirl is there a meta-package of all the P5* Butterfly Project modules, so I can zef install them all in one hit 03:22
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ingy is there a way to leave msgs for people here? 04:32
also what is ZofBot? 04:34
timotimo: Test::Builder is failing travis: travis-ci.org/perl6-community-modu.../376619154 04:38
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lucs ingy: ｢.tell whomever The message...｣ 04:45
.tell ingy Next time you speak here, you will get this message. 04:46
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yoleaux lucs: I'll pass your message to ingy. 04:46
ingy lucs: thx
yoleaux 04:46Z <lucs> ingy: Next time you speak here, you will get this message.
ingy :) 04:47
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jmerelo p6: my $seq = Date.today, *.earlier(:1day) ... ( *.day-of-week==5 && *.week[1]+1==Date.today.week[1] ).tail ; say $seq; 05:11
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of ... in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 $seq = Date.today, *.earlier(:1day) ...7⏏5 ( *.day-of-week==5 && *.week[1]+1==Date
2018-05-09
ufobat___ .tell timotimo is there still anything i can do to get this free() thing resolved? I'll need to reset the server that produces the response for my rest script soon 05:14
yoleaux ufobat___: I'll pass your message to timotimo.
jmerelo p6: say Date.today, *.earlier(:1day) ... *.day-of-week==5; 05:15
camelia (2018-05-09 2018-05-08 2018-05-07 2018-05-06 2018-05-05 2018-05-04)
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jmerelo p6: say Date.new("2018-05-11"), *.earlier(:1day) ... *.day-of-week==5; 05:19
camelia (2018-05-11)
jmerelo p6: say Date.new("2018-05-10"), *.earlier(:1day) ... *.day-of-week==5;
camelia (2018-05-10 2018-05-09 2018-05-08 2018-05-07 2018-05-06 2018-05-05 2018-05-04)
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Geth doc: JJ self-assigned p6doc - 'make html' fails github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2014
075ecca867 | (JJ Merelo)++ | README.md
 05:40
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doc: e16b1ad778 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files
Clarification of JSON minimal requirements, closes #2013
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Geth doc: a7f3dcdacb | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/community.pod6
Expands community page with #728 suggestions
 06:11
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/community
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jmerelo May I draw your attention to the Glossary page? github.com/perl6/doc/issues/728 It's (still) not complete, but there's not much remaining. Maybe you can pick up one of the terms and work on it? 06:23
I'm now working my way down from B, and marking on the issue when I get them. Please do the same... 06:27
Geth doc: 520e3130dd | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/glossary.pod6
Adds bytecode and block, refs #728
 06:34
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/glossary
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masak haha, I like how the latest "Perl Weekly" has a link "How long does it take you to learn a new language?", and then the description text is just "2 months for Perl and Mojolicious", as if that's the globally correct answer, and not just someone's arbitrary number. :) 07:13
also, I wonder if it was 4 weeks Perl and 4 weeks Mojolicious, or sort of 6 weeks Perl and 2 weeks Mojolicious 07:14
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masak (don't want to be too harsh on Perl Weekly, by the way. it's usually very nice to get on Monday mornings.) 07:23
moritz i share your amusement 07:29
masak it's a little bit like those occasional "Infrequently Asked Question" lists, where deep and troubling questions are frivolously answered in just a few words 07:30
Q: How long does it take to learn quantum computing and design your first quantum algorithm? A: Two months. 07:31
moritz you know the classifc C++ FQAs, right? :) 07:32
"frequently questioned answers" 07:33
masak yes, I enjoy those a little bit too much
moritz an artful piece of trolling
masak in fact, since I haven't used C++ in decades, such FQAs make up the majority of my C++ knowledge nowadays 07:34
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moritz totally unbiased knowledge :) 07:37
masak .oO( alternative FAQs ) 07:38
ufobat did you just invent this term? 07:39
i actually never heared alternative FAQs before :(
thats what you find, when you're googling it :( www.afd.de/faq-items/ 07:40
masak ufobat: it was a riff/paraphrase of Kellyanne Conway's "alternative facts". beyond that, it's not a real term, AFAIK. 07:41
ufobat yeah i know
but the pun with the FAQs
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masak I often see "Infrequently Asked Questions" when people want to be cheeky and/or weird. 07:41
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lizmat medium.com/@akbgunner4ever/what-is...02e7aba2cd 08:49
mentions Perl 6, then introduces Perl 5 code without strict :-(
jmerelo runs off to correct that wrong... 08:50
lizmat please be kind :-) 08:52
donpdonp Unhandled exception in code scheduled on thread 7; Too few positionals passed; expected 6 arguments but got 2
jmerelo lizmat: "the child of Python and scripting" C'mon... 08:53
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donpdonp how can i handle that better? the docs say the default handler will print a backtrace but those two lines are all i get (there are no try or catch blocks in the code) 08:53
lizmat later he says that that can't be true because Perl is older
donpdonp also ive tried wrapping the inside of main() with a try{} and/or adding CATCH and nothing changes about the output
lizmat donpdonp: also if you run with --ll-exception ?
donpdonp tries that
jmerelo lizmat: so don't say that in the first place... it's like saying that it's like a more complicated Ruby... Ruby got the sigils from Perl. 08:54
donpdonp in block at SETTING::src/core/IO/Socket/Async.pm6 line 175
jmerelo lizmat: also I hate it when people start with the classic hello world program...
donpdonp lizmat: well there it is. thx
lizmat well, I look at it as: any publicity is good publicity :-)
jmerelo lizmat: right.
lizmat: he kind of seems allergic to loops. Or map. 08:55
donpdonp hmm all the stack frames are inside src/core
jmerelo lizmat: or decent indentation.
lizmat donpdonp: could you gist the stack trace ? 08:56
donpdonp surely the problem starts in my own code
lizmat: gist.github.com/donpdonp/c893ddffd...f4ef5246db
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donpdonp lizmat: fyi perl6 --version => 'This is Rakudo version 2018.04.1 built on MoarVM version 2018.04.1' 09:00
lizmat donpdonp: yeah, the line numbers lined up with my version, so thought it'd be recent 09:01
the block in question does indeed need 6 params... 09:02
but I'm not sure where it is getting called, somewhere in the bowels of nqp::asyncconnect, I would think :-(
could it be that the connection is broken immediately ? 09:03
feels to me this warrants a Rakudo issue
feels to me some error condition causes the block to be called with just 2 parameters 09:04
donpdonp nod. i can try to look into it further 09:05
lizmat looking at the code, it seems to not use parameters 3..6 if there was an error
donpdonp where is the nqp code? i tried looking for '$ ack asyncconnect /home/donp/.rakudobrew/moar-2018.04.1/src/' but it only found the usage inside IO/Socket/Async.pm6 09:07
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lizmat you probably need to do ack -a 09:08
anyways, if you not shy of looking at the source
donpdonp Option '-a' is not valid in ack 2. sigh. grep -r didnt find the definition of asyncconnect either. 09:09
lizmat :-(
donpdonp oh now im looking in the right place moar-2018.04.1/nqp (not /src) 09:11
lizmat donpdonp: this is getting into above my paycheck land... I think you should try to golf it down and make an Issue 09:12
brb
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donpdonp gets out the 9-irons 09:14
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masak I have a question about -- dun dun DUN -- parsing 09:22
jast oh noes
masak in 007, expressions can start with a '{', when they denote an object literal, like '{ a: 7 }'
but statements can also start with a '{', when they denote a solo block: '{ say("OH HAI") }' 09:23
jmerelo :-)
masak these two syntaxes are "in conflict", because of "expression statements", statements which (only) contain an expression 09:24
and so in the 007 parser, the rule statement:expr needs to say "fail if starting with '{'"
now, my question: needing to say that feels inelegant, or more precisely, it feels like a concern about statement blocks "leaking" over into expression statements 09:25
is there a way to achieve the same but with better separation of concerns?
jast what's the structure of your parser, rec desc? 09:26
masak it's a Perl 6 grammar, so... yes
jast oh, good point :)
masak (this code has been in the 007 since forever, but I got to thinking about it again because I needed to fix a bug on that line: github.com/masak/007/pull/289 )
jast well, in this class of parser you're going to *have* to cheat somehow
masak I have the same sort of generally uneasy feeling about "stoppers" like '->', where a lower level in the recdescent needs to keep on the lookout for something from a higher level 09:27
that too feels like a leak 09:28
masak secretly hopes that moritz++ will pop up and say "just see page X of my book!" 09:29
jmerelo masak: I'm not too good at this (or anything else, for that matter), but wouldn't this be a case for using backtracking? You check out what's inside {}, once you know, go back and use one or the other 09:30
Or is there any case where it's impossible to know which is which? So '{a:7}' can _also_ be an expression? 09:31
sorry, a statement...
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masak jmerelo: I suppose, at least in the sense that that's possible to guess. 09:31
jmerelo: though note that Perl 5, Perl 6, JavaScript all elected not to guess
I think there's a reason for that :)
hm, correction: Perl 6 actually has some heuristics there 09:32
lizmat yeah, I understand adverb handling is one of these? 09:33
masak jmerelo: in either case, we can assume that I'm not currently considering lookahead/backtracking to be a viable solution, and so my question is more about how, given that, one can write a parser that doesn't have a cheat
lizmat: adverb handling is one of those "creative lying to yourself" affairs, yes 09:34
lizmat: but it's completely separate from "is this { ... } a block or an object" handling
jast: why is it the case that you have to cheat somehow in a recdescent parser? 09:35
jmerelo masak: without changing the language, I guess... There are still some ambiguities in Perl 6. {} in some cases can be either an empty block or an empty hash... That's why we prefer people to use %() for hashes.
masak jmerelo: yes.
jmerelo: one thing I've learned (through osmosis) from TimToady is that backtracking is inadvisable when parsing languages 09:36
jmerelo masak: can't help you. However, might I suggest to take that to StackOverflow? Lots of expert people there in Perl 6 _and_ grammars... :-)
masak jmerelo: the Perl 6 spec has a very short list of a handful of places where it (very carefully) deviates from this rule-of-thumb
jmerelo: thanks. good idea. 09:37
oh, and in fact, at least once 007 has had a very insidious scoping bug that was ultimately rooted in the grammar (wrongly) doing backtracking after having done some side effects during the first/backtracked parse 09:38
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masak I think that's largely the reason backtracking becomes infeasible in a language like Perl 6: because parsing "changes the language" as you go, and these changes tend to happen right away, and so any backtracking runs into problems with undoing those changes 09:39
jmerelo masak: right...
masak that's besides the obvious philosophical inelegance with "having to guess" :) 09:40
jast the non-cheating way is to use backtracking (potentially optimized using memoization but that's difficult in recdesc) 09:42
it's very much possible in general, though, because you can keep all of the changes to the parser/language as part of the parser state so it gets rolled back when backtracking 09:44
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jast but yeah, if you can't backtract you need to keep context in your parser (which is essentially what looking back into a higher level is, though that's slightly more dirty) 09:45
a somewhat cleaner way would be for higher levels to pass along flags to lower levels
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gfldex m: say [5..7] ~~ [0..12]; 09:55
camelia False
gfldex m: say [5..7].all ~~ [0..12];
camelia all(False, False, False)
gfldex do we got an idiom for "one range is within another range"? 09:56
m: say [3..5] ∈ [1..12]; 09:57
camelia False
lizmat hmmm...interesting use of (elem) 09:58
gfldex m: say [3..5].all ∈ [1..12];
camelia all(True, True, True)
lizmat m: say [3..5] (<=) [0..12]
camelia True
lizmat m: say [3..15] (<=) [0..12] 09:59
camelia False
lizmat m: say [3..5] ⊆ [0..12]
camelia True
lizmat gfldex: subset seems more applicable to what you want :-)
gfldex aye 10:00
lizmat m: say [3,4,5] ⊆ [0..12] # don't have to be ranges
camelia True
gfldex I wonder if the docs should point from /type/Range to Set operators somehow 10:01
lizmat m: say 3..5 ⊆ 0..12
camelia True
lizmat well, perhaps... :)
set operators are generally applicable, you don't have to make them all Sets yourself beforehand 10:02
gfldex takes notes
lizmat and if the operation can be done without actually making a Set behind the scenes, it will
although I think in this case it actually did :-( 10:03
gfldex the docs for Set, Bag,… make it sound like the set operators only apply to those types
lizmat: Im always happy to help you find spots in Rakudo that would welcome a speedup. :) 10:04
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lizmat gfldex: docs.perl6.org/language/setbagmix#...f_operator states: 10:16
Most of the time, explicitly using Set objects with these infixes is unnecessary. All the infix operators will work on any objects of type Any for its arguments (e.g., List, Array, Mix, etc.) and coerce them to Set where needed.
In some cases, if the type of an argument is a Bag, the infix operator will behave in a different but analogous way to the way it would behave with only Set arguments.
gfldex lizmat: ok, that is solved already 10:17
lizmat I guess the examples could do without the .Set :-)
hmmm... no mention that (>+) is deprecated in favour of (>=) 10:21
jmerelo lizmat: noted. Will issue that. 10:26
lizmat jmerelo++ 10:28
jmerelo lizmat: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2016
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Zoffix donpdonp: what's the code that produces that error? 10:52
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mikejw has anyone heard of "Foolish::VCS::Git" ? 10:55
failed dependency when trying to install this (with zef) bitbucket.org/rightfold/module-skeleton 10:56
Zoffix I don't see it in the list of deps.. 10:57
mikejw wait the test failure is actually this maybe "# Failed test 'have usable source'
Zoffix What's the full output? And how did you come across that module, considering it's not in the ecosystem? 10:58
mikejw I guess it means I'm foolishly not using git correctly or something
Zoffix mikejw: that module appears to be inside that module's `t` dir: bitbucket.org/rightfold/module-ske...ew-default 10:59
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mikejw ah ok 10:59
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mikejw thanks 10:59
hmm so I guess the solution isn't to "manulally" install that 11:01
*manually
end up with the same error pretty much 11:02
Zoffix mikejw: maybe that module isn't working yet? It's not in ecosystem. Try App::Assixt or App::Mi6 11:03
eco: App::Assixt
buggable Zoffix, App::Assixt 'A CLI frontend to Dist::Helper': modules.perl6.org/dist/App::Assixt:cpan:TYIL
Zoffix eco: App::Mi6
buggable Zoffix, App::Mi6 'minimal authoring tool for Perl6': modules.perl6.org/dist/App::Mi6:cpan:SKAJI
mikejw cool, ok :)
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Zoffix ingy: ZofBot is my little buddy. He tweets me my IRC mentions and makes pie. 11:05
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moritz ... and converts GCT to UTC :) 11:08
Zoffix yeah that too :) 11:09
jast I thought your time zone was 'Z' :) 11:10
moritz jast: it's the metric time used in taustation.space/
Zoffix |gct 198.31/48:212 GCT 11:11
ZofBot Zoffix, 2018-05-09T11:34:15.857615Z; which is 22 minutes and 34 seconds from now
Zoffix My jail release time :) 11:12
jast hm, your bot's system time seems to be deviating from mine by a minute or two
yeah, I think mine is wrong, ntp client must be hosed again 11:13
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atweiden-air i'm trying to do: 11:37
m: role Hook {*}; role ABC does Hook {*}; my Hook:U @hook = ABC; @hook.say;
camelia Cannot perform this operation on an uninstantiated definite type
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
atweiden-air is this the best way?
m: role Hook {*}; role ABC does Hook {*}; my Mu:U @hook where .^roles.grep(Hook).so = ABC; @hook.say;
camelia [(ABC)]
atweiden-air m: role Hook {*}; role ABC does Hook {*}; subset THook of Mu:U where .^roles.grep(Hook).so; my THook @hook = ABC; @hook.say;
camelia [(ABC)]
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timotimo well, that's weird 11:43
yoleaux 05:14Z <ufobat___> timotimo: is there still anything i can do to get this free() thing resolved? I'll need to reset the server that produces the response for my rest script soon
atweiden-air m: role Hook {*}; role ABC does Hook {*}; my Hook:U @hook = ABC:U; @hook.say; 11:47
camelia [(ABC:U)]
timotimo ufobat: it might help if i had access to the script, but i'm really not sure what could be going wrong there; i'll have time very unreliably until monday, so not sure if can help
m: role Test { }; my Hook:U @test = Test; 11:48
camelia 5===SORRY!5===
Type 'Hook' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3role Test { }; my Hook:U7⏏5 @test = Test;
Malformed my
at <tmp>:1
------> 3role Test { }; my Hook:U7⏏5 @test = Test;
expecting any of:
pair valu…
timotimo m: role Hook { }; my Hook:U @test = Hook; 11:49
camelia Cannot perform this operation on an uninstantiated definite type
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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pmurias what are the mime types for nqp/perl 6 source files? 12:08
gfldex pmurias: i dont't think the IANA was informed about Perl 6 yet 12:11
pmurias: text/x-perl6 would be a likely candidate 12:15
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ufobat timotimo, that will produce the same error perl6 -e 'use LibCurl::HTTP; my $url= "1.eu.dl.wireshark.org/src/wireshar...1.tar.xz"; my $http = LibCurl::HTTP.new( :ssl-verifypeer(False), :ssl-verifyhost(False) ); $http.GET($url).setopt(:!failonerror).perform.say' 12:28
while MVM_JIT_DISABLE=1 perl6 -e 'use LibCurl::HTTP; my $url= "1.eu.dl.wireshark.org/src/wireshar...1.tar.xz"; my $http = LibCurl::HTTP.new( :ssl-verifypeer(False), :ssl-verifyhost(False) ); $http.GET($url).setopt(:!failonerror).perform.say' seems to work 12:29
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masak pmurias: are you referring to nqp/perl 6 source files from an HTML document? 12:30
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lucasb . 13:53
yoleaux 00:17Z <Zoffix> lucasb: I'm not the gatekeeper of modules.perl6.org. It's open source. You got commit bit. Write code.
lucasb Sorry, I didn't mean to be demanding. Instead, consider I was just asking if it is a good idea or not (to add --delete to rsync). If I get a positive answer, then I can certainly edit the code.
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mcmillhj I have now realized that I can condense calls to sort from @pairs.sort({ $^a.key <=> $^b.key }) to @pairs.sort({ .key }). Does the block within sort always have to exist or can it be condensed further? 14:15
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timotimo it can 14:16
Zoffix lucasb: I didn't think it was demanding. My point was you often need to make your own decisions on whether it's a good idea or not and make code changes if you think it is.
timotimo *.key is short for { .key }
Zoffix Don't wait for someone to approve all of your ideas. Go do them.
timotimo so @pairs.sort(*.key) also works
lucasb Zoffix: nice words, thanks :) 14:17
mcmillhj timotimo: oooh, thanks. I naively tried @pairs.sort(&key) 14:18
jast yeah, that wouldn't know what to call key on 14:19
Zoffix mcmillhj: are those pairs from a hash? If you yes, you can just do %hash.sort and it'll sort by keys
jast fortunately the 'whatever star' is always there to save the day :)
mcmillhj Zoffix: they were, but I used .antipairs() to get the inversion
Zoffix ah 14:20
jast .antipair() still returns Pair objects, so should be the same
mcmillhj does whatever always expand to a block? i.e. * === { $_ } and *.<method> === { $_.method } ?
jast the only difference is that pairs compare as keys and then as values if the keys are the same
mcmillhj jast: yes, but it isn't a hash anymore. I would have to assign it to a hash to then do %h.sort() 14:21
Zoffix mcmillhj: no, * is a Whatever object. Its meaning depends on context and in *.<method> context it gets turned into a WhateverCode
mcmillhj Zoffix: ah ok, still trying to wrap my head around how most of Perl6 functions. Thanks for the responses.
jast well if you have a list of antipairs, using sort on that list should be using the Pairs' cmp operator, so that should still do the key-then-value comparison 14:22
Zoffix mcmillhj: when it's a standalone term, it remains a Whatever object. If it's part of an expression, then it gets closed over. There are some additional rules on where the closure ends. Don't know if it's documented somewhere, but in code form they're encoded here: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...9641-L9665 14:23
And you can always add a set of parentheses to demarkate where the closure should end
m: say *.^name ~ "foo"
camelia { ... }
Zoffix m: say (*.^name) ~ "foo" 14:24
camelia { ... }
mcmillhj jast: oh ok, I misunderstood what you said originally
Zoffix m: say ((*.^name))_ ~ "foo"
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say ((*.^name))7⏏5_ ~ "foo"
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
postfix
statement end
statement…
Zoffix m: say ((*.^name)) ~ "foo"
camelia WhateverCode object coerced to string (please use .gist or .perl to do that)
foo
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix or two set of parens, I guess
Ah, right, you can still do argless sort on a list of pairs. jast++ 14:26
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jmerelo p6: my $bound := 3; $bound = 'þorn'; say $bound 15:17
camelia Cannot assign to an immutable value
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
ingy what's the best place to start to find out how to release a p6 module? 15:36
moritz ingy: docs.perl6.org/language/modules#Di...ng_Modules 15:37
ingy moritz: thx
are people really using cpan/pause? 15:38
moritz there are also App::Mi6 and Ddt that automate some of these steps
sure, why not? 15:39
ingy where does zef install from?
moritz cpan and github 15:40
ingy I just meant uploading to pause seems like a pain if you can just push to github 15:41
and was wondering what most people do
moritz but you don't get releases by pushing to github, and github isn't really meant to be a CDN
so yes, people do upload to cpan
though often through command line tools
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ingy you can't do a release by pushing a tag? 15:44
pmurias masak: truffle wants you to specify a mime time for the language you are implementing
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Zoffix ingy: some people (like me) release to github only (gitlab is also supported). Technically, yeah, it's fairly trivial to make releases on github. tony-o has a tool that extracts commits with version bumps automatically and makes a map of versions to commits and I could've sworn zef was already using that map, but when I tested recently it weren't. 15:54
jmerelo ingy: yep, I'm using it for all new modules. You can do whatever, it's no big deal.
ingy jmerelo: what is it? 15:56
jmerelo ingy: what you get if you upload to CPAN is the METACPAN thing; other than that, well, you know CPAN already.
Zoffix .ask tony-o recall you had a tool that extracted versions from repos, based on commits to META file? Where is it? Were zef using it in the past (I thought it were)? If not, how come not? Using it would let github dists be versioned, no?
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to tony-o.
jmerelo ingy: I'm using CPAN. Sorry, answering your first question above.
Zoffix You don't get the metacpan support from uploading Perl 6 modules to CPAN.
jmerelo Zoffix: oh? OK, so you don't even get that, so it's just a place for storage of versions that is chared with CPAN. 15:57
ingy for now I'll push to github
Zoffix jmerelo: well, they're also shown on modules.perl6.org, just like github dists. But they're ignored by metacpan.org and the rest of Perl 5's tooling. 15:58
ingy I use my Acmeist repo layout, same layout for all programming languages, so I'll have to make my own tooling to get it into the p6 style
speaking of, can intended "releases" to cpan be on a non-master branch? 15:59
ie I want to generate a perl6 branch from master 16:00
Zoffix ingy: you mean releases to the ecosystem? I fairly certain modules.perl6.org doesn't support that but zef might
p6c is the name of our github/gitlab-based ecosystem 16:01
ingy I might have to just generate to a foo-perl6 repo then
also how can I get github.com/perl6-community-modules/testml-pm6 back to ingydotnet? :)
pmurias hates that we still use github for displaying module docs and info, but has too much stuff to work on to volunteer to fix that :(
Zoffix pmurias: we don't, for CPAN-hosted dists. 16:02
ingy: what's your github username? 16:03
ingydotnet 16:04
ingy oui
Zoffix ingy: "ingydotnet/testml-pm6 already exists and You can only transfer a repository from an organization to yourself at this time "
ingy: could just update your fork and swap this META file address in the p6c list: github.com/perl6/ecosystem/blob/ma....list#L105 16:05
And then we nuke the perl6-community-modules version
ingy sec
Zoffix well, I guess the META file will need to be swapped regardless 16:06
pmurias: though highligher for P6 code is crap. Is basically slightly mutilated Perl 5 highligher.
El_Che ingy: it seems easy to deploy in github based on a tag 16:08
Zoffix El_Che: how do you lock a dep to a tag in your own meta file so zef only installs that particular version? 16:09
(that dep being the tagged module in p6c ecosystem)
El_Che I would put a one line on after_deploy that changes what's needed on the meta file
liner
Zoffix El_Che: what's after_deploy? 16:10
El_Che Zoffix: I am still often puzzled by zef, so I have to look at the detaild
Zoffix a git hook?
El_Che a travis stage
Zoffix: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg/blob/m...is.yml#L50 16:11
See how my deploy only run when an specific tag is submitted: 18-66-DA-44-1B-32
oops
line 49
and after_deploy only run when deploy as run 16:12
Zoffix Don't really follow. If I'm making module Foo that depends on a specific version of module Bar that's in the p6c ecosystem, how do I specify in my meta file that zef needs to install that particular version of Bar and not whatever is on master, which I think is what it currently installs.
El_Che I am not trying to solve that problem 16:13
pmurias Zoffix: got an example of one with good docs?
El_Che Zoffix: although I listened carefully to a talk about upcoming go's approach and tried to see if it would match perl6 16:14
Zoffix pmurias: maybe this: modules.perl6.org/dist/Inline::Perl5:cpan:NINE
pmurias: though ATM we only support markdowned README for docs
16:14 wamba left
Zoffix pmurias: there's also modules.zef.pm that I think does something with the display-docs-on-the-site-not-on-github 16:15
"Most contrib authors.... Zoffix Znet: 10"
El_Che Zoffix in your example, I would the version field would be rewritten with (part of) the tag, that's all
Zoffix eco: author:zoffix
buggable Zoffix, Found 48 results: Acme::Anguish, Acme::Anguish, IRC::Client, WWW, CoreHackers::Sourcery. See modules.perl6.org/s/author%3Azoffix
Zoffix Looks like modules.zef.pm is severely outdated. 16:16
El_Che Zoffix: how the ecosystem keeps version history is a mystery to me
(if it does)
Zoffix El_Che: I thought it did, but apparently it doesn't. That's what my .tell to tony-o was about.
Well, the github one. The CPAN one does.
Zoffix wants owner perms on ingydotnet 16:17
I mean on perl6-community-modules 16:18
Can't add other humans to the group.
El_Che Zoffix: I was talking about this talk: www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8nrpe0XWRg
it seems go is moving from where we are today (gimme master) to something more sane
Zoffix ingy: I gotta go, but you can just ping any other people github.com/orgs/perl6-community-modules/people and they'll transfer your repo back to you. Or just update your fork and ask someone to nuke the community version (the META file URL in the p6c ecosystem will need to be updated either way). 16:19
Zoffix &
El_Che: you should share it with our ecosystem tooling people, maybe it has good ideas. There's #perl6-toolchain channel
Zoffix &
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Geth doc/master: 8 commits pushed by (JJ Merelo)++ 16:47
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Geth ecosystem: 54ee850f42 | (Ingy döt Net)++ | META.list
TestML maintained by ingydotnet again
 16:52
AlexDaniel .seen kalkin
yoleaux I saw kalkin 30 Dec 2016 02:11Z in #perl6: <kalkin> i think it would be nice if some QA standarts would be defined for modules.perl6.org, i.e: version your dependencies, tag your versions
AlexDaniel oh wow that's a long time
Geth doc: eb833443de | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Indexed as «unicode character properties» closes 2019
 16:58
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/regexes
doc: 3b70e35ef5 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/regexes.pod6
Indexed as «unicode character properties»

Closes #2019
doc: gfldex++ created pull request #2020:
hint and and link to set operators from Range		 17:00
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Geth doc: 684d1a0fd6 | (Wenzel P. P. Peppmeyer)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Range.pod6
hint and and like to set operators from Range
 17:39
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Range
doc: 1da31b13a0 | (Juan Julián Merelo Guervós)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Range.pod6
Merge pull request #2020 from gfldex/patch-13

hint and and link to set operators from Range Please make clarifications requested if possible later on.
17:42 AlexDaniel left, lucasb left
gfldex jmerelo: please revert that commit. I do not wish to contribute the the docs anymore. 17:43
jmerelo gfldex: I'm really sorry about that. Can you tell me why?
TimToady m: say 3..5 ~~ 0..12 17:44
camelia True
jmerelo gfldex: I didn't mean any offense with my comment and I apologize if it was perceived in that way.
TimToady no need for set operations if you just want to test range inclusion
m: say 3..5 ~~ 4..12
camelia False
gfldex jmerelo: It's really bad style to merge a PR that the author has retracted. So please revert that commit. 17:46
ingy Zoffix: this seems to be how you can make a Perl6 module release with a github push: github.com/ingydotnet/testml-pm6/b...6.json#L27 17:47
thanks to AlexDaniel++ for helping me figure it out
jmerelo gfldex: Once again, apologies if it's my fault that you have done so. I don't mind reverting the commit, or changing it according to TimToady's comments above; but I would like to know what has been the problem. 17:48
ingy ie: any push to master is not a release. only updates to source-url with an accompanying tag
TimToady
.oO(Communication is hard...Let's go do math...)
 17:51
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jmerelo p6: say 3 ~~ [1..12]; say [2..3] ~~ [1..12]; say (5,6,7) ~~ [1..12]; 17:51
camelia False
False
False
jmerelo p6: say 3 ~~ 1..12; say 2..3 ~~ 1..12; say (5,6,7) ~~ 1..12; 17:52
camelia True
True
False
ingy waves to TimToady o/
TimToady jmerelo: last one needs .all, since smartmatching will never assume juncitional logic for you 17:53
ranges are special though
jmerelo p6: say (5,6,7).all ~~ 1..12;
camelia all(True, True, True)
jmerelo TimToady: right. Thanks!
Geth doc: 2dac622578 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Range.pod6
Reverting PR

According to [@gfldex wishes](irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2018-05-09#i_16148066) and following @timtoady advice (further down the IRC log)		 17:55
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Range
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Zoffix ingy: the only problem is modules.perl6.org would still direct to master. So if you alter the docs from what they were in the release they'll no longer be current. 17:58
hmm
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ingy Zoffix: modules.perl6.org should link to support/source field if present 18:00
Zoffix gfldex: it's also "bad style" to retract your PR for no good reason after a volunteer spent their free time reviewing, thinking about, and commenting on the work you submitted. If you don't like your PR reviews, you always have the option of just taking the commit bit and committing directly.
ingy: yeah 18:01
ingy github.com/ingydotnet/testml-pm6/b...6.json#L25
18:01 athenot joined
ingy how often does that update? 18:01
the modules.perl6.org stuff
modules.perl6.org/search/?q=TestML 18:02
the cat link still points to github.com/perl6-community-modules/testml-pm6
Zoffix on 20th and 40th minute of the hour cronjob runs and I think takes ~1hr
ingy :D
funny
ingy waits
Zoffix ingy: did you update the URL in the p6c ecosystem list tho? 18:03
ingy wonders if it will just work. ie use support/source 18:04
yes
Zoffix ok
ingy github.com/perl6/ecosystem/commit/...c847d5732f
and as you can see, I can use a different branch for that too 18:05
so later on I'll have the canonical sources in github.com/ingydotnet/testml-pm6/tree/master/ but the generated perl6 release in github.com/ingydotnet/testml-pm6/tree/perl6/ and tagged as perl6-v0.4.6 18:06
Acmeism,FTW!
;)
Geth modules.perl6.org: d4afb47ab1 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm
[REBUILD] (GitHub) Use support>source URL as repo URL if present
 18:07
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Zoffix oh, it's already being set here github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org...pm#L78-L81 18:08
just in wrong order
jmerelo htmlify.p6 is failing now in Travis, which uses the binary from whateverable, with this error github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1951#i...-387808534 18:09
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ingy Zoffix: yeah 18:09
jmerelo .tell AlexDaniel there seems to be a problem with the latest binary downloaded from Whateverable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1951#i...-387808534
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
TimToady p6: say 11..13 ~~ 1..12; 18:10
camelia False
Geth modules.perl6.org: 9ea8bd7529 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source/GitHub.pm
Revert "[REBUILD] (GitHub) Use support>source URL as repo URL if present"

This reverts commit d4afb47ab17203292c9e74d51b4d04008f931a54.
Better fix is available to change the Dist::Source class
TimToady p6: say (5,6,7..9).all ~~ 1..12;
camelia all(True, True, True)
TimToady p6: say (5,6,11..13).all ~~ 1..12; 18:11
camelia all(True, True, True)
TimToady something wrong there...
jmerelo There's never enough Truth 18:12
Geth modules.perl6.org: f7fdf0b9cf | (Zoffix Znet)++ | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder/Dist/Source.pm
[REBUILD] Prefer META-provided source URL for dists
Zoffix s: 1..12, 'ACCEPTS', \(11.13) 18:13
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SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e0ad...e.pm6#L429 18:13
Zoffix s: 1..12, 'ACCEPTS', \(11..13)
SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e0ad...e.pm6#L438
Zoffix s: 1..12, 'ACCEPTS', \((5,6,11..13).all)
SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e0ad...e.pm6#L425
gfldex TimToady: that's what set me on a wrong track :) (also Set operators look smart)
TimToady problem with set operators is that they have to construct the set, which can be slow 18:14
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Zoffix m: say (11..13) cmp 12 18:15
camelia Less
Zoffix That just treats Range as a number-of-elements don't it? 18:16
TimToady yup
Zoffix s: &infix:<cmp>, \((11..13), 12)
SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e0ad...e.pm6#L774
TimToady maybe
m: say (13..14) cmp 12
camelia More
Zoffix Ah, as (11..13) cmp (12..12)
TimToady no, it's treating 12 as a list 18:17
Zoffix Which is then compared as a.min cmp b.min || a.excludes-min cmp b.excludes-min || a.max cmp b.max || b.excludes-max cmp a.excludes-max
18:17 [particle] left
TimToady so the real bug is .ACCEPTS not distributing correctly inside the junction, maybe, since cmp is probably too late 18:18
some subtle Mu vs Any thing, perhaps 18:19
Zoffix I'm not following the `(topic cmp $!min) > -(!$!excludes-min)` check tho.
like, why is the result of `cmp` is being compared to whether or not we exclude the endpoint 18:20
TimToady presumably it's trying to calculate the difference between 2 ~~ 2..3 vs 2 ~~ 2^..3 or so 18:21
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Zoffix m: say (((11..13) cmp (1..1)) > -1 and ((11..13) cmp (12..12)) < 1) 18:24
camelia True
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Zoffix So it's a bogus comparison. This ACCEPTS candidate assumes Range would never go through it, as topic 18:24
TimToady bisect: say (5, 6, 11..13).all ~~ 1..12; 18:25
bisectable6 TimToady, On both starting points (old=2015.12 new=e0ad668) the exit code is 0 and the output is identical as well
TimToady, Output on both points: «all(True, True, True)␤»
18:25 athenot left
TimToady looks like it's a longstanding issue 18:25
Zoffix tries just changing Mu to Any as topic and see if it'll thread right 18:26
TimToady is something prematurely optimizing out the Range ~~ Range candidate?
Zoffix There is a special Range ~~ Range candidate, yeah: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e0ad...e.pm6#L438
But the Junction variant goes through the Mu ~~ Range candidate: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e0ad...e.pm6#L425 18:27
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Zoffix um, is .ACCEPT meant to collapse Junctions? 18:27
I guess it'd still need to take a Mu anyway. 18:29
TimToady well, Junctions are special as the invocant to ACCEPTS, but args should work normally, or we couldn't write (1,2,3).all ~~ whatever 18:30
Geth doc: f149663276 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Range.pod6
Eliminates last example, which does not really work that way
 18:31
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Range
Zoffix m: say "4" cmp 4 18:32
camelia Same
Zoffix m: say "4" ~~ 1..11
camelia False
Zoffix m: say 4 ~~ 1..11
camelia True
Zoffix files an issue instead 18:33
TimToady thanks 18:34
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ingy Zoffix: modules.perl6.org/search/?q=TestML is updated now but not pointing to the right place, as you guessed 18:36
can we change that order?
Geth modules.perl6.org: lucasbuchala++ created pull request #105:
Add --delete option to rsync for CPAN dists		 18:38
Zoffix ingy: I already did, but it'll be picked up only on the next build
ingy :)
Zoffix (I didn't test it, but I assume it'll change the source to right path)
ingy the site will be our test 18:39
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Zoffix Filed as R#1809 18:41
synopsebot R#1809 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1809 Range.ACCEPTS gets some things wrong
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Geth modules.perl6.org: 8874d805f9 | (Lucas Buchala)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm
Add --delete option to rsync for CPAN dists
 18:42
modules.perl6.org: f80f0eed62 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | lib/ModulesPerl6/DbBuilder.pm
Merge pull request #105 from lucasbuchala/patch-1

Add --delete option to rsync for CPAN dists
modules.perl6.org: 3012c11974 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | use-me-for-commit-triggers
[REBUILD] it
Zoffix ingy: you have the commit bit to modules.perl6.org repo BTW. So feel free to make all the changes :) 18:44
The "[REBUILD]" in the commit title just tells to discard some cached info and rebuild all modules. There are a couple more of such triggers: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org...ers#L7-L12
Zoffix &
18:44 Zoffix left 18:45 [particle] left
jmerelo Can someone please check travis-ci.org/perl6/doc/jobs/376963640? 18:47
This is an error in htmlify.p6 with the latest version of the binary in whateverable. 18:48
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robertle if I have a reference to a sub with a constrained return type my $a = sub foo(--> Int) { Nil }, is there a way to programmatically determine the return type? 20:28
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masak m: my $a = sub foo(--> Int) {}; say $a.signature.returns ~~ Int 20:30
camelia True
masak robertle: ^
robertle awesome, thanks! somehow I went down the $a.^signature and so on... 20:32
masak ah; no, the ^ would give you the signature of $a's type object, not $a ;) 20:33
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mikejw hey guys 20:45
timotimo greetings
mikejw just wondering if it should be possible to call MoarVM panic: Internal error: invalid thread ID 1946157056 in GC work pass
masak could you rephrase the question please 20:46
mikejw oops.. sorry
timotimo it is possible, that output usually follows memory corruption
mikejw I mean call Proc::Async after calling fork (with NativeCall)
timotimo oh 20:47
calling fork with nativecall is usually fatal
only the parent process survives
mikejw hmmm
timotimo the child will misbehave. either hang or outright crash 20:48
lizmat considers NativeCall issuing a warning when trying to call fork()
mikejw I guess this post must be a bit out of date? blogs.perl.org/users/zoffix_znet/20...mer-1.html 20:50
lizmat yeah, it is with respect to fork() 20:52
timotimo well, technically it doesn't say that you can or should use fork, just that it's "there" (in scare-quotes 20:53
)b
but yeah it should be pointed out that that's a bad idea
lizmat the article is from before we had spesh running in a background thread
timotimo even then if you were doing anything with multithreading, like Proc::Async, you'd not be able to use the child process for anything
lizmat so, if you did not start any async work, you would still be running in a single thread, and fork() would just work 20:54
since then, Rakudo is *always* multithreaded
to make fork() work in such an environment, would require quite a lot of work if it would be possible at all
timotimo it might at one point be possible to do, with a bunch of changes to moarvm, but even then if the user has nativecalled into something that uses threads by itself internally, that'll also cause misbehaviour in those libraries 20:55
mikejw cool, well sounds like I need to learn about spesh :) 20:56
20:57 kaare_ left
timotimo it's not terribly important for users 20:58
mikejw oh ok
timotimo it's definitely interesting
knowing about it can help you make your code faster
6guts.wordpress.com has many articles that go into details 20:59
gfldex mikejw: here you can learn about spesh 6guts.wordpress.com/2017/11/05/moa...zing-code/ 21:00
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AlexDaniel . 21:05
yoleaux 18:09Z <jmerelo> AlexDaniel: there seems to be a problem with the latest binary downloaded from Whateverable github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1951#i...-387808534
mikejw timotimo: thanks
AlexDaniel .tell jmerelo well, that issue in particular is not a problem with Whateverable or how it builds rakudo, but it's rakudo itself that is/was broken on HEAD 21:07
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
AlexDaniel .tell jmerelo so generally if you see something like that you should feel free to file a rakudo bug
yoleaux AlexDaniel: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
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lucasb After adding the --delete option to rsync, cpan dists dropped from 244 to 235. Hopefully all were meant to be excluded anyway. 21:15
Just saying it here, FYI, in case someone notices any problem
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buggable New CPAN upload: P5reset-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH modules.perl6.org/dist/P5reset:cpan:ELIZABETH 21:42
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buggable New CPAN upload: P5built-ins-0.0.20.tar.gz by ELIZABETH cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/E/EL/....20.tar.gz 21:52
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Herby_ o/ 22:38
comborico1611 \o 22:41
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Geth doc/car-grant-midrat: 5bc6ac8c67 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/numerics.pod6
[CaR Grant] Document division by zero and zero-denominator rationals
 23:03
doc/car-grant-midrat: 2ef9268858 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Language/numerics.pod6
Fix double negative
 23:05
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