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Set by Zoffix on 25 May 2018.
geekosaur Juerd, if you do reproduce it at some point, what does "locale" report in the shell at that point? 00:00
tjhat shell, not a different one
Juerd juerd.nl/i/4e15b239d6b33c973af964745ad712ac.png but still haven't been able to reproduce 00:01
geekosaur in fact… stay in p6 when it happens and run: shell 'locale'
Juerd I still have the same perl6 running but it hasn't happened again
shell 'locale' gives the same output 00:02
geekosaur probably only happens when something is initted the first time
doesn't look like that should be a problem. I think 00:03
Juerd Even if I replay the entire session it doesn't reproduce the internal error
geekosaur lovely. thta sounds like some kind if memory corruption and it landed somewhere else 00:08
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perlpilot Here's something crazy that happened today ... my youngest children (twins, boy + girl) asked me about programming. Since they use Windows, I downloaded notepad++ and the windows version of rakudo and showed them a few things. 01:55
raschipi How old are they? 01:56
perlpilot Just now (about 6 hours after I first showed them stuff), I go to see what my son is doing and he a a Perl 6 file in notepad++ with a grammar that he had typed in from someone's P6 talk
raschipi, 12
raschipi And it's not crazy, it's natural for children to ask about what their parents work on, I think. 01:57
perlpilot that last sentence was the crazy part :)
geekosaur still not very
pop onto the web, look for interesting examples
perlpilot Since I first showed them stuff, he's been on google and youtube and whatever he can find to learn more perl 6.
geekosaur …bite off more than you can chew, most of the time >.>
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perlpilot I only showed them about scalars, arrays, outputting stuff, if statements, simple looping, etc. and he's taken off with all the things he wants to figure out. 01:59
It still seems crazy to me.
Quite unexpected.
raschipi jmerelo will wanna hear about them having p6 as their first language. 02:01
perlpilot I was thinking about getting his book for them to learn from
geekosaur sounds entirely expected to be, tbh
to me
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geekosaur at least, if it piques their interest 02:02
perlpilot yeah, you're right ... I'm probably just comparing their learning programming to my learning programming ... 35 years ago from a book about BASIC. They've got way more resources at their disposal 02:03
But also, I have another data point to compare at well. Their older brother was 15 and taking a class in school that used python, so i tried teaching him programming with python (it was the first time he showed any interest). It didn't exactly "stick" with him. 02:07
geekosaur different strokes 02:08
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raschipi I think it's due to ludic learning. 02:12
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raschipi perlpilot: awesome history though, even if we don't find it surprising. 02:23
AlexDaniel perlpilot: what about syntax highlighting? According to github.com/perl6/user-experience/issues/19 notepad++ does no syntax highlighting for perl6 files, is that correct? 02:24
perlpilot It does appear to do some simple highlighting for perl6 files 02:25
Well ... files that end in .p6 (I didn't try .pm6 yet) 02:26
AlexDaniel huh
perlpilot perl6 doesn't show up in their list of file types though 02:27
AlexDaniel perlpilot: btw, I have a bunch of stuff done for sake :) 02:33
was a bit distracted by things in the last two days so didn't even manage to push anything :( 02:34
perlpilot: but otherwise it is looking great :)
perlpilot cool
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buggable New CPAN upload: IP-Random-0.0.7.tar.gz by JMASLAK modules.perl6.org/dist/IP::Random:cpan:JMASLAK 03:44
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jmerelo o/ 05:34
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benjikun Does anyone know if there are there any modules built for sending emails w/ Perl6 05:39
yoleaux 28 Jun 2018 11:25Z <Zoffix> benjikun: Suggestions for next iterations of the survey: (1) For most wanted feature, invite people to be as specific as possible. 50 people saying "performance" is a lot less useful than a single person saying "performance of custom ops". (2) Add a comment field at the end "Suggestions to improve future versions of this survey"... ATM I don't even know if you're the right person to send this suggestion
28 Jun 2018 11:25Z <Zoffix> benjikun: to. Like who's the author of the survey?
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benjikun .tell Zoffix I'll keep those in mind for next time, me and several others from this IRC channel thought up the questions in the June 2018 survey (AlexDaniel and jjmerelo being some I remember). 05:43
yoleaux benjikun: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
jmerelo benjikun: I really didn't have much to think but thanks for the reference :-) 05:55
benjikun: it's going very well, BTW. More than 200 answers...
benjikun Mhm, can't wait to get the next one to be able to see how many new users we get in how much time 05:58
jmerelo benjikun: you want to do it monthly? 06:00
BTW, here's the chart for files created per user in the Perl 6 repository www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSo...W4__ygnKTC
benjikun jmerelo: Not sure yet, it would be nice for sure
Do you think everyone would do it every month?
jmerelo benjikun: probably quarterly would be less tiresome 06:01
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jmerelo Here's another view: www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSo...4__ygnKTC, including a pie chart. 64% of the files were created by [Coke] 06:02
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jmerelo Average score for the documentation is not at 6.87. That's a B- 06:11
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benjikun jmerelo: I don't have permission to view that page 06:13
jmerelo benjikun: try now www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSo...W4__ygnKTC 06:23
benjikun works now :)
buggable New CPAN upload: Text-BorderedBlock-0.1.0.tar.gz by TYIL cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/T/TY/...1.0.tar.gz 06:24
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jmerelo Hey, diegok ! 06:26
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jmerelo Another illustration on the Perl 6 repo: days needed for 100 commits github.com/JJ/TPF-Grant/blob/maste...ts-log.png 06:51
Lately it hovers around ~ 10 days, but a few commits ago was the second best ever: 3 odd days. Best ever, you see the dip, 2 days and change. 06:52
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jmerelo benjikun: did you close the survey? Do you intend to write some report? 07:06
benjikun jmerelo: Yeah, I made a GitHub repo under perl6/p6survey with the final results.
jmerelo benjikun: great! 07:07
benjikun :)
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cog benjikun, the page "what platforms..." does not display the platform names (as displayed on chrome/ubuntu) 08:00
benjikun cog: Put your mouse over the bars
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cog thx 08:04
benjikun np :) 08:05
Tison nqp: my $y := 42; $y.defined() 08:07
camelia Cannot find method 'defined': no method cache and no .^find_method
at <tmp>:1 (<ephemeral file>:<mainline>)
from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1566 (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:eval)
from gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:1805 (…
Tison github.com/perl6/nqp/blob/9eda6a02...qp#L82-L84
We do have a `defined` method in NQPMu, why NQP complains that there is no? 08:08
or $y is not a NQPMu? which is more strange
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Tison It blocks this fix and I'll appreciate it for any help (github.com/perl6/nqp/commit/255b8d...8de0d9a76) 08:21
Tison have to logout 08:22
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tyil is there a tool to convert all texas ops in a perl 6 file to their unicode equivalents (if possible) 08:44
lizmat not afaik (module opportunity!!) 08:49
pmurias shouldn't it be a Perl6::Tidy feature? 08:50
El_Che (I would prefer the other way around, if you're writing a modules anyway :) ) 08:51
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tyil I'm writing plenty of modules, nothing for this (yet) tho 08:51
I'm testing out comma, but it doesnt automatically convert texas to unicode (yet?), which I had in vim 08:52
and everyone agrees that unicode ops are awesome
so I'm looking for an alternative that's easily used to convert texas to unicode ops now 08:53
buggable New CPAN upload: Object-Trampoline-0.0.2.tar.gz by ELIZABETH modules.perl6.org/dist/Object::Tram...:ELIZABETH 09:04
El_Che tyil: ** - 1 09:05
:)
tyil that would be so much prettier with superscript - 1 and leaving out the **
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jkramer What's a texas op? 09:37
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robertle an ascii variant of a unicode op 09:39
jkramer Is that the official term? I've never heard that before :) 09:40
robertle so eg 'atomic-inc-fetch', for which there is also a neat unicode one
I can't type the unicode one however, since I'm from texas (apparently)
jkramer I don't get it, must be some inside joke I guess? :) 09:45
robertle perhaps not a joke, but just lack of a better name 09:49
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robertle but many operators have two ways to write them: one using unicode and one using a narrow character set that you can easily type on a US keyboard 09:50
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jmerelo robertle: all of them, in fact. 09:52
lizmat jkramer: texas op is the old name of ascii op 09:53
jkramer: it *was* an inside joke, deemed to be too inside so it was removed as a reference: instead "ascii op" is used now 09:54
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jkramer Thanks for the clarification :) 09:55
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sarna hey, I have a list of things and want to call a function that would take things from this list as arguments. is there an easy way of doing this? 10:40
tadzik |@args should do what you want, iirc 10:41
sarna foo(bar, @a) -> bar(@a[0], @a[1]..)
oh thanks, I'll look into it :)
moritz correct
tadzik m: sub a($a, $b, $c) { $a + $b + $c }; my @args = 4, 5, 6; say a(|@args)
camelia 15
sarna where can I find docs on this? 10:42
jmerelo sarna: in the docs :-) docs.perl6.or6 10:43
sarna: look up "Signatures"
tadzik docs.perl6.org/routine/|
tadzik is mildly amused that this is a valid URL
sarna jmerelo: ah thanks, I forgot how these things were called :) 10:44
tadzik: nice
tadzik I like your nickname, are you aware of its polish meaning? :) 10:45
sarna tadzik: yeah, as you can see I'm half-polish myself
tadzik ah, that explains it :)
jmerelo tadzik: It would mean "itch" in Spanish. What does it mean in Polish?
sarna (the other half is polish too)
tadzik jmerelo: it's "roe", the animal
sarna jmerelo: roe deer
tadzik I didn't actually know the english word until I checked it just now 10:46
jmerelo tadzik: definitely more beautiful than itch.
sarna same, I kept saying "deer" until I realised it's a different anumal
tadzik quite :P
sarna jmerelo: well, I prefer to link its spanish meaning with a Bukowski's poem 10:47
"excuses"
"burning itch from hell" that pushes artists to be creative sounds way better than rabies 10:49
El_Che jmerelo: it's not "itch", it "scabies" 10:50
sarna scabies!
not rabies. heck, haven't woken up yet
El_Che I would post a link to the little guy, but I won't :)
thank me later :)
jmerelo sarna: actually, that's one of the drivers of free software. Scratch one's itch.
sarna El_Che: little guy? 10:51
jmerelo El_Che: OK, technically it's scabies, but it's more generically used meaning "itch"
El_Che jmerelo: you sound like microsoft: the GPL is like scabies
:)
jmerelo El_Che: Like "Sarna con gusto no pica". You can't get scabies _and_ like it.
sarna jmerelo: :D
El_Che jmerelo: in Spain, a smallish far-away country in the hipanic worl community
:)
world
jmerelo El_Che: :-) 10:52
El_Che: which has proceeded, against all previews, to the next phase in the World Cup
El_Che I must close the google images page now
jmerelo: yes, Spain can do so much better
jmerelo El_Che: and much worse... But congrats, Belgium has gone ahead too :-) 10:53
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El_Che nowadays is better than Germany good enough 10:53
sarna El_Che: where are you from? if you don't mind me asking
El_Che sarna: .be, with hispanic roots 10:54
jmerelo: I watched the Chile-Spain match in Lond 4 years ago 10:55
sarna El_Che: I see :)
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El_Che sarna: I went back to uni (without attending classes) in order to write spanish, because my education was in dutch 10:56
jmerelo El_Che: Hey, I was in London too! On my way from the airport, actually :-)
El_Che lol
I was ther for work
but we found a South-American place full with Spanish people :) 10:57
it was nice
I almost mixed a plane to Australia from London
Zoffix .tell Tison don't know much about it, but I'd assume 42 is an unboxed int and not an object, which is why it ain't got that method and I'd presume there's no auto-boxing in nqp, like we got in Perl 6. For example, nqp::objprimspec($y) returns 1 (for objects it's 0). You can just write nqp::isconcrete($y) instead of .defined (in nqp at least, in Perl 6 .defined is different). Or if you have to use .defined then
yoleaux 05:43Z <benjikun> Zoffix: I'll keep those in mind for next time, me and several others from this IRC channel thought up the questions in the June 2018 survey (AlexDaniel and jjmerelo being some I remember).
Zoffix say(nqp::objprimspec($y) || $y.defined)
El_Che we were watching the penalies
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to Tison. 10:58
El_Che finale
Zoffix .tell Tison say(nqp::objprimspec($y) || $y.defined)
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to Tison.
El_Che it takes some time to your brain to recognize they are calling your names through the speakers
jmerelo El_Che: He. Also, pronunciation might not help
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sarna El_Che: in poland I was stuck with german :( 10:59
Tison yes
yoleaux 10:57Z <Zoffix> Tison: don't know much about it, but I'd assume 42 is an unboxed int and not an object, which is why it ain't got that method and I'd presume there's no auto-boxing in nqp, like we got in Perl 6. For example, nqp::objprimspec($y) returns 1 (for objects it's 0). You can just write nqp::isconcrete($y) instead of .defined (in nqp at least, in Perl 6 .defined is different). Or if you have to use .defined then
10:58Z <Zoffix> Tison: say(nqp::objprimspec($y) || $y.defined)
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sarna El_Che: maybe I should learn spanish/portuguese though, now after I've moved I've been mistaken for a spaniard/portuguese a couple of times 10:59
Tison I use nqp::isconcrete instead in the recent commit
El_Che sarna: I remember getting a lot of beers from Israeli people when I was in Brasil 11:01
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El_Che sarna: it was their independence day and I learnt a few words 11:01
good for when you travel on low budget :)
sarna El_Che: woo!
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El_Che sarna: spent a little short of 2 years backpacking 11:02
not a lot of budget
sarna El_Che: I'm really digging the multinational community here, it's so different from poland
(I've moved to denmark for uni)
El_Che I learnt some good card tricks that gets you free beer :)
jmerelo El_Che: quite an experience, I'm sure...
El_Che sarna: I can imagine
jmerelo: very formative, specially for understanding Latin America (and also South-East Asia was interesting) 11:03
jmerelo: being in a village in Latin America where no one speaks spanish is interesting (education and culture is very eurocentric on most places) 11:04
sarna: where in .dk are you?
sarna El_Che: northern jutland 11:05
El_Che nice
you can take the boat to Sweden :) 11:06
sarna oslo is pretty close too :)
El_Che I have family in Århus
sarna I'm in another double A city 11:07
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El_Che Ålborg? 11:07
sarna yeah. don't write it with an Å though, the locals don't like it :D 11:08
El_Che really?
I learnt something today :)
Swedish spelling or something?
sarna no, Danish. there was a spelling reform though, a lot of cities retained their old names 11:09
(in anything other than city names Aa transformed into Å)
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El_Che so AA is older than Å? 11:10
(linguistically I would have expected the other direction)
(no always though)
sarna yeah, in old danish everything's spelled with 'aa' 11:11
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El_Che dutch when from aa to a pronounce as aa on some situations 11:11
sarna Aabenraa is my favorite city name here :D 11:12
jmerelo El_Che: not really. pairs of letters precede letters with stuff on them ij → y, nn → ñ...
El_Che os -> ô
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sarna m: my $apply = sub(&func, @args) {&func |@args}; say $apply(&[+], <1 2>); 11:18
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '@args' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $apply = sub(&func, 7⏏5@args) {&func |@args}; say $apply(&[+],
sarna it compiled on my machine D: 11:19
hmm, it works as two separate lines
m: my $apply = sub (&func, @args) {&func |@args}; say $apply(&[+], <1 2>); 11:20
camelia any(sub infix:<+> ($?, $?, *%) { #`(Sub+{is-pure}+{Precedence}|31100208) ... }, (1 2))
sarna now! why isn't + applied to 1 and 2?
jmerelo sarna: [+] is actually two functions, the [ ] and the +. I'm not sure & would be a pointer to that composition. 11:21
ilmari my $apply = sub (&func, @args) { func(|@args) }; say $apply(&[+], <1 2>);
evalable6 3
ilmari my $apply = sub (&func, @args) { func(|@args) }; say $apply(&[+], <1 2 3 4>);
m: my $apply = sub (&func, @args) { func(|@args) }; say $apply(&[+], <1 2 3 4>); 11:22
camelia Too many positionals passed; expected 0 to 2 arguments but got 4
in sub at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
jmerelo m: my $apply = sub (&func, *@args) { func(|@args) }; say $apply(&[+], <1 2 3 4>);
camelia Too many positionals passed; expected 0 to 2 arguments but got 4
in sub at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
sarna jmerelo: don't I need to wrap infix functions in []?
ilmari: thanks! 11:23
jmerelo sarna: yep, right. It might work.
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Zoffix sarna: `sub(…)` makes it think you're trying to call a routine named `sub` you need a space there. `&func` refers to `&func` as a noun, if you want to call it (i.e. use it as a verb), omit the `&`. And then parentheses are optional (unless you're using other sigils). Also, a Capture is better suited for passing arbitrary args to routines 11:29
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Zoffix m: my &apply = sub (&func, |c) { func |c }; say apply &[+], <1 2 3 4>; 11:30
camelia 4
Zoffix m: my \apply = sub (&func, |c) { func |c }; say apply.(&[+], <1 2 3 4>);
camelia 4
sarna Zoffix: verbs and nouns in a programming language? :D
Zoffix sarna: its creator is a linguist by trade :)
masak m: &[+](<1 2 3 4>)
camelia ( no output )
masak m: say &[+](<1 2 3 4>)
camelia 4
masak guessing it takes .elems 11:31
m: say <1 2 3 4>.reduce(&[+])
camelia 10
Zoffix s: &[+], \(<1 2 3 4>)
SourceBaby Zoffix, Sauce is at github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/587c...c.pm6#L205
timotimo sarna: the problem with &func |@args was that it was parsed as &func | @args, which gave you a junction
Zoffix just a .Numeric
masak yes, but .Numeric on a list-y thing... :) 11:32
Zoffix m: my \apply = sub (&func, *@a) { func |@a }; say apply.(&[+], <1 2 3 4>);
camelia Too many positionals passed; expected 0 to 2 arguments but got 4
in sub at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Zoffix m: my \apply = sub (&func, |c) { [[&func]] |c }; say apply.(&[+], <1 2 3 4>); 11:33
camelia 4
sarna timotimo: ohh
Zoffix m: my \apply = sub (&func, *@a) { [[&func]] |@a }; say apply.(&[+], <1 2 3 4>); 11:34
camelia 10
Zoffix \o/
sarna: OK, never mind my comment about Captures. Evidently it's not the best thing in this situation :)
Zoffix &
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sarna also, calling apply with a dot isn't ideal 11:35
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timotimo you have to put a . there because apply(...) would look for something named &apply, but what my \apply gives you is called just "apply" 11:36
any reason you don't just have "sub apply(...) {...}"? 11:37
Ulti whoa big speed improvement suddenly, like 10% 11:40
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sarna timotimo: it's a hashmap, mapping strings to functions 11:51
timotimo then you probably won't need the . 11:52
like, if your code looks like %functions{$funcname}(1, 2, 3) there doesn't have to be a .
sarna oh, good to know :) 11:53
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sarna is there something like `is-int` but for lists? 11:57
El_Che whut 11:58
sarna something like is-list
El_Che to know is something is a list?
sarna precisely
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sarna I know I can .WHAT but how to compare it to anything? 11:59
El_Che smartmatching? 12:00
sena_kun m: say 3.WHAT =:= Int;
camelia True
moritz m: say 3.WHAT === Int
camelia True
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raschipi m: say 3 ~~ Int 12:01
camelia True
moritz m: my @a = (1, 2, 3); say so all(@a) ~~ Int
camelia True
moritz m: my @a = (1, 2, 'x'); say so all(@a) ~~ Int
camelia False
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raschipi m: my $y = 3 but False; say $y.WHAT =:= Int; say $y.WHAT === Int; 12:03
camelia False
False
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sarna sorry, my internet borked :( 12:03
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raschipi sena_kun: ↑ === and =:= are too strict. 12:04
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sena_kun raschipi, thanks, will keep it in mind. Should admit that I've never encountered usage of `but Foo` trick in the wild nor do understand why anyone would have to use it despite being involved in writing of some black-magic-like code. :) 12:07
m: my $a = 3 but False; say $a ~~ Int; 12:08
camelia True
sena_kun Nice. 12:09
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raschipi It's used to send in-band extra data, expecially for DBMs. 12:10
Zoffix AlexDaniel benjikun jmerelo are survey results public already or when is it over? I know you shared a URL, but I wanna tweet the results and it's bad science to publish survey results before it's finished. 12:11
El_Che Zoffix: publishing raw data is weird
rindolf Zoffix: hi 12:13
Zoffix Right, it needs to be accompanied with prose explaining the results in a way that supports your agenda :P
El_Che Zoffix: that's how the cookie crumbles :)
sarna do we have a head propagandist?
rindolf Zoffix: if rakudobrew sucks so much, then there should be a usable alternative for it
raschipi sarna: Zoffix works in marketing. 12:14
sarna raschipi: oh :^)
El_Che rindolf: ./Configure.pl --prefix=foo && make && make test && make install
Zoffix rindolf: there is. The bash alias I gave you. It creates a single command instead of rakudobrew's two. If you don't like it, you can give rakudup.github.io/ a spin or tyil's thing whose name I forget
tyil Zoffix: LoneStar 12:15
:>
Zoffix What's the link?
12:15 psychoslave left
tyil gitlab.com/tyil/lonestar 12:15
its also on github if you prefer that 12:16
12:16 psychoslave joined
tyil it's also in the AUR and in my gentoo overlay 12:16
El_Che I created packages as an alternative to local compiling. I am not fond of running bash scripts from the internet either
12:16 thundergnat joined
tyil I oftentimes use the docker images as well 12:16
for testing purposes
El_Che I never use docker images I didn't create myself, besides official OS base images 12:17
tyil I'm using the rakudo-star image with gitlab-ci
saves me all the effort of setting up perl 6 manually in images all the time
Zoffix huggable: build :is: Alternatives to rakudobrew: 3rd party installers: gitlab.com/tyil/lonestar#readme and rakudup.github.io/ | 3rd party distro packages: rakudo.org/files/rakudo/third-party | Bash alias: github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
huggable Zoffix, Added build as Alternatives to rakudobrew: 3rd party installers: gitlab.com/tyil/lonestar#readme and rakudup.github.io/ | 3rd party distro packages: rakudo.org/files/rakudo/third-party | Bash alias: github.com/zoffixznet/r#table-of-contents
thundergnat sena_kun: using but to apply a role comes in handy sometimes: See rosettacode.org/wiki/Hilbert_curve#Perl_6 for example.
12:17 ExtraCrispy left
tyil anyway, lunchtime~ 12:17
Zoffix sarna: I think lizmat++ is our head propagandist, being at the helm of The Perl 6 Weekly as well as at the Perl table of many confs. 12:18
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lizmat the Perl table is done by Wendy, and as such if we would need to call anybody "head propagandist", it would be her, I think 12:20
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lizmat but don't tell her that :-) 12:20
mikejw if I want to pass a binary file as string to github.com/bduggan/aws-s3-perl6 do I need to open and slurp the conents with raw/bin encoding?
sarna if you told her she'd point at another person :^)
mikejw *contents
jkramer I was looking at the tasks at rosettacode that don't have a p6 implementation yet and started working on this one: rosettacode.org/wiki/Checkpoint_synchronization 12:21
Do you think this is an adequate solution or is there anything to be improved? gist.github.com/jkramer/7e04b7c93a...3651e70de6
Zoffix mikejw: doing that would pass it as a Blob. I think you want `"file".IO.slurp: :enc<latin1>` or `:enc<utf8-c8>`. The latter tries to decode it as utf8 and keeps any invalid bytes as is, the former just keeps all the bytes as is 12:22
lizmat await (1..$total-workers).map: -> $id { and lose the my $id = $_ ?
jkramer: ^^
El_Che lizmat: I think Zoffix, Wendy and you all cover different parts of the propaganda
rindolf tyil: must lonestar be installed under /usr ? 12:23
mikejw ah cool, thanks :)
Zoffix jkramer: FWIW there's Supply.throttle that does all the throttling for you 12:24
12:26 sarna left
Zoffix m: my $workers = 4; my $units-to-build = 42; await ^$units-to-build .Supply.throttle: $workers, { say "Doing work on $^u"; sleep 3.rand; say "$^u is done" } 12:26
camelia Doing work on 0
Doing work on 1
Doing work on 2
Doing work on 3
3 is done
Doing work on 4
1 is done
Doing work on 5
2 is done
Doing work on 6
6 is done
Doing work on 7
4 is done
Doing work on 8
0 is done
Doing work on 9…
AlexDaniel .seen benjikun 12:27
yoleaux I saw benjikun 08:05Z in #perl6: <benjikun> np :)
raschipi Perl 6 marketing is a hot potato
Zoffix m: my $workers = 4; my $units-to-build = 12; react whenever ^$units-to-build .Supply.throttle: $workers, { say "Doing work on $^u"; sleep my \ans := 3.rand; [$u, ans] } { say .result.head ~ " is done. Result is " ~ .result.tail }
camelia Doing work on 0
Doing work on 1
Doing work on 2
Doing work on 3
2 is done. Result is 0.08417798391732845
Doing work on 4
4 is done. Result is 0.35950064073938093
Doing work on 5
0 is done. Result is 0.5759448195478509
Doing work on 6…
AlexDaniel Zoffix: yeah, but I think it's not over yet 12:28
12:28 psychoslave left
AlexDaniel (re survey) 12:28
ah, it says that it *is* over… 12:29
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Zoffix jkramer: ok, nm, I just now read that wiki that describes the problem 12:29
And another suggestion for the survey is a friendlier URL :) 12:30
Not only I don't remember what it was, even if I saw it right now, I wouldn't know if it's the same or not.
perl6.org/survey/2018.06 now that's a URL and you can publish the results right at the same URL once it's over
jkramer lizmat: Ah yeah, don't know why I did it that way :) 12:32
rindolf Zoffix: please add a licence to github.com/zoffixznet/rd#linux 12:33
Zoffix meh 12:34
jkramer Zoffix: That's pretty cool but I think it's not what they want there :)
Zoffix jkramer: yeah, it isn't :)
12:36 zakharyas joined
rindolf Zoffix: i cannot find anything better than rakudobrew and i looked at all three alternatives 12:36
Zoffix rindolf: which feature of rakudobrew are those alternatives missing? 12:38
rindolf Zoffix: well, lonestar has to be installed under /usr
mikejw Zoffix: now things seem to freeze when I try and access the slurped contents 12:39
btw it's a zip file
Zoffix mikejw: is it a super huge file?
mikejw 23megs I think
rindolf Zoffix: and rakudoup requires an ugly curl | bash command 12:40
Zoffix: and your alias clutters the home dir
Zoffix rindolf: but... rakudobrew does the same. It installs into .rakudobrew, my alias installs into .rakudo 12:41
rindolf Zoffix: it also has ~/rakudo
Zoffix rindolf: and rakudobrew is an ugly command that you clone from git rather than curl|bash command
tyil tbh, all solutions are ugly
Zoffix rindolf: that's what I meant. You can change it to any dir you want. Just adjust the path
tyil the only good solution would be inclusion in the distro repos
all we're doing now are workarounds 12:42
none of them are particularly "nice"
rindolf Zoffix: ok, fine
tyil also rindolf, if I didnt break it yet, lonestar doesn't need to be installed at all 12:43
rindolf tyil: ok
tyil just clone and ./bin/lonestar, it will intall in ~/.rakudo-star by default
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Zoffix mikejw: well, I've just killed my box by trying to .slurp.say a 23MB sparse file :P 12:48
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rindolf tyil: thanks 12:49
tyil no probs :> 12:50
rindolf Zoffix: heh
Zoffix Oh, it's 23*GB*... I guess `dd`'s seek takes kilobytes not bytes... 12:51
rindolf Zoffix: ah
Zoffix oh, "seek=N skip N obs-sized blocks at start of output" 12:52
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timotimo :D :D 12:52
Zoffix and default obs is 512
timotimo yeah, 23 gig may not fit into the ram with rakudo's overhead 12:53
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Zoffix Challenge accepted!! :) 12:53
timotimo i don't have enough ram to get that to fit %)
if it's all zeroes, zram might help here
Zoffix Well, I'm too lazy for it, but I think GCE has a VM with half a terrabyte
timotimo having loads and loads of objects on the heap in moarvm is problematic because the GC walks all of them, but if you read a gigantic file into memory, you just have a buffer that won't get walked through regularly 12:55
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jnthn The GC only walks all of them in a full collection :) 13:00
Zoffix mikejw: what version of perl6 do you have?
$ perl6 -e '$*SPEC.devnull.&open(:w).spurt: "z.zip".IO.slurp: :enc<latin1>; say "z.zip".IO.s/1024/1024, " ", now - ENTER now' 13:01
26.0959663 1.5011168
13:01 Khisanth left
Zoffix mikejw: ^ that's on 2018.03. 26MB zip file takes 1.5s. And printing to STDOUT takes ~5s 13:01
On 2018.05-54-g148d7c5 on a different box takes ~1.6s
(to /dev/null) 13:02
And utf8-c8 to devnull takes ~7.6s
So I wonder if maybe your perl6 is super ancient that it appears to freeze up on this operation 13:03
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rindolf tyil: with lonestar, the perl6 bench looks better 13:13
only 87 secs
tyil it shouldnt differ from any other form of self compiled installation 13:14
tyil shrugs
I'm glad it works for you though :p
rindolf tyil: i had an old one
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Zoffix rindolf: what's your perl6 -v? 13:16
mikejw Zoffix: "This is Rakudo version 2018.04 built on MoarVM version 2018.04" 13:17
Zoffix mikejw: hm, no idea then :/
mikejw no worries
Zoffix rindolf: because lonestar installs latest Star, which would be 2018.04, so it's surprising it's faster (unless your earlier install was even older than that). 13:18
rindolf Zoffix: This is Rakudo Star version 2018.04.1 built on MoarVM version 2018.04.1
Zoffix: it may have been
Zoffix hm, OK.
rindolf Zoffix: bye . walk 13:19
13:19 rindolf left
Zoffix c: 2018.04.1 temp.perl6.party/z.txt 13:20
committable6 Zoffix, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL
Zoffix, ¦2018.04.1: «1.1276149␤»
Zoffix c: HEAD temp.perl6.party/z.txt
committable6 Zoffix, Successfully fetched the code from the provided URL
Zoffix, ¦HEAD(ea16138): «0.80886579␤»
Zoffix :)
mikejw it seems like I need to use enc:<latin1> on the open function and on slurp other wise I get a "Malformed UTF-8" error 13:21
Zoffix mikejw: oh yeah, sorry. If you're using a file handle instead of IO::Path, the :enc goes into open modes, not into .slurp
m: say 1.1276149/0.80886579 13:22
camelia 1.394069219
Zoffix .tell rindolf looks like when the next Star comes out in about a month, you should see another ~39% speed boost: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...06-29#l607
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to rindolf.
mikejw ok makes sense. still getting the hanging.. probably something I'm not doing right with promises again 13:23
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mikejw ok it's because I was trying to output the file contents through Data::Dump. probably not a great idea :D 13:36
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mikejw I guess this aws library isn't built for handling large-ish file because I think it must be doing something simliar. get the same max cpu hang when trying to pass it the file for uplading 13:44
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mikejw *similar *uploading 13:44
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SmokeMachine m: say set() =:= set(); say set(1) =:= set(1) 13:58
camelia True
False
SmokeMachine if `set()` always return the same object, wouldnt make sense that `set()` passing immutable values to return the same object too? 14:00
raschipi SmokeMachine: Yes it does.
m: say "1" =:= "1" 14:01
camelia True
raschipi Same as the above.
jnthn It'd be a possible constant folding opt, yes
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raschipi m: say 1 =:= 1 14:02
camelia True
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SmokeMachine how could it be done? making a cache of immutable objects? 14:04
raschipi It's caller 'interning'. 14:05
called*
jnthn SmokeMachine: It's a compiler optimization. We already do it for 1 + 1 for examle. 14:06
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jnthn We shouldn't do such a thing at runtime, the memory use can get really out of hand :) 14:06
raschipi m: say 1 + 1 =:= 2
camelia True
SmokeMachine jnthn: should it be done on github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...imizer.nqp ? 14:07
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jnthn SmokeMachine: Yes, though in theory marking `set` with `is PURE` in CORE.setting would opt it in to constant folding 14:08
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SmokeMachine jnthn: make it `PURE` wouldnt make it return the same object even with mutable parameters? or `PURE` looks for the `.WHERE`? 14:13
jnthn: sorry, even if it looks for the `.WHERE`...
timotimo pure really just signals to the optimizer that it can evaluate it at compile time and replace the call with the result 14:14
all it cares about is that the values you call it with are compile-time-known or not
jnthn SmokeMachine: It will only apply if all the arguments to it are fixed at compile time
ah, timotimo beat me to it :)
SmokeMachine :) 14:15
lizmat fwiw: multi sub set() { BEGIN nqp::create(Set) }
so the way I see it, set() is already interned by being a WVal ? 14:16
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jnthn lizmat: Yes, but we're talking about set(1,2,3) 14:16
SmokeMachine it should be true to `set()`, `bag()` and `mix()` right?
lizmat ah, that!
will add "is pure" and see if that makes a difference for static sets 14:17
Zoffix SmokeMachine: are you gonna be working on static optimizing those subs?
lizmat m: dd Set.new
camelia ().Set
SmokeMachine Id like to try...
lizmat m: dd ().Set
camelia set()
lizmat working on fixing that ^^^
Zoffix lizmat: `is pure` has to be on the proto for it to take effect and I guess the candidates that take args aren't pure?
SmokeMachine Zoffix: Ill try it at night... 14:18
lizmat doesn't "is pure" means to always create the same .WHICH for a given set of parameters ?
timotimo not necessarily
jnthn I thought it really meant "you can constant fold this", e.g. if the arguments are themselves constant or the result of a constant folding 14:19
lizmat yeah, so in that sense set() bag() and mix() can be marked "is pure" 14:20
Zoffix SmokeMachine: OK :) I started something, but it's not that good. Here's the diff if there's anything you want to salvage: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/f5db2e3...30fb5bd680 As jnthn++ said, we can actually try to constant-fold even versions with the args and that's done for other stuff in this branch, so you'll be trying to use some of that code or stick the conditional for sets into that 14:21
branch: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...1589-L1694
Ah
SmokeMachine: ok, nm, looks like we can just mark those subs as pure :D
raschipi Am I the only one that likes the indirect invocation syntax? 14:22
Zoffix I like it, but it sucks for nesting
Would be nice to write: say perl Foo.new: <a b c> :
or say perl Foo.new: <a b c> : : to also call `.say` instead of `&say`
hobbs it should mean that the result is only dependent on the parameters and nothing else. It doesn't *have* to memoize or anything like that, but it wouldn't be wrong for it to :)
Zoffix Ah right, that's indeed what it means :) 14:23
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Zoffix wonder if there's more that can be marked 14:24
SmokeMachine Zoffix: Yes... the `PURE` will make it easier...
Zoffix is reminded of R#1566 14:25
synopsebot R#1566 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1566 [regression] multi built-ins are not assignable to Callable
Zoffix jnthn: reminder that you wanted to see if a good solution exists for github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1566 :) 14:26
SmokeMachine Zoffix: but if you want to finish it, thats ok... I can try to study something else... (I was thinking of trying making the return type check compile time)
Zoffix (something that's less hackish than github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/15...-370995418 )
SmokeMachine: nah, you finish it :)
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jnthn Zoffix: ah, thanks, maybe next week when I'm feeling for brainy :) 14:29
Zoffix :)
14:31 Zoffix left 14:32 ExtraCrispy left
jnthn *more :) 14:32
heh, can't even type
timotimo cool, they let you pick up your fixed brain on the weekend? ;) 14:33
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Zoffix SmokeMachine: to clarify: ignore my diff. It's wrong. You can just apply `is pure` trait on the set/bag/mix ops 14:36
hobbs Zoffix: or any other kind of eliminating multiple evaluation, so an optimizer could decide to hoist a pure call out of a loop or do CSE or that kind of fanciness :) 14:37
(to continue previous thought)
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Altreus wha gwannin with bailador? It's not been updated for 2 months :s 14:38
Zoffix :)
Altreus does it work
Zoffix Altreus: probably. I guess Cro stole its thunder in some way.
El_Che Zoffix: I don't think it's true
Zoffix: it didn't look too active before Cro appeared 14:39
Zoffix What happened to the Bailador book BTW?
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Bowlslaw Helllooo 14:40
Altreus Cro is it
SmokeMachine Zoffix: ok, thanks!
Altreus loosk
hobbs shot down by Enrique Iglesias's legal team
Zoffix Altreus: it got a website: mi.cro.services 14:41
Altreus lols
found it already :)
Zoffix :)
Then I have a second question: what happened to people who kicked money for Bailador book? Is that money lost? 14:42
m: { for ^700_000 { my $ = set(1, 2, 3, 4) }; say now - ENTER now } 14:43
camelia 5.07368704
Zoffix m: BEGIN &set.^mixin: role { method is-pure { True } }; { for ^700_000 { my $ = set(1, 2, 3, 4) }; say now - ENTER now }
camelia 0.057662
Zoffix is-pure is OP :P
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Zoffix Filed R#1992 14:52
synopsebot R#1992 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1992 [perf] Examine codebase for subs that can be `is pure`d
Zoffix m: say .?is-pure for &list, &hash, &slip, &so, &substr
camelia Nil
Nil
Nil
Nil
Nil
Zoffix 'cause all this stuff can be pure, eh?
lizmat Zoffix: am testing set/bag/mix atm
timotimo i have a cautionary tale for you 14:53
we made x "is pure" at some point, and that caused performance to drastically worsen for very long resulting strings
Zoffix lizmat: ok, let SmokeMachine know :) I think they were working on that too
timotimo: because it flattened the ropes? 14:54
timotimo because the object it was creating had been serialized before the execution started, so we ende up turning the string that was "this short thing repeated 1000 times" in memory (i.e. implemented with a strand) into actually many kilobytes (or megabytes in this case) of string data
yes
lizmat SmokeMachine: are you still looking at adding "is pure" to set/bag/max ?
timotimo so make sure handling the constant object isn't more costly than evaluating it on the spot
SmokeMachine I was planning to do that at night... 14:55
lizmat: ^^
lizmat ok, I'm about to commit that change myself
SmokeMachine lizmat: ok!
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lizmat it makes set(1,2,3) 65x faster if you do it 100000 times 14:57
Zoffix nice :)
timotimo it'll be even more faster if you do it 10000000000 times :P
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SmokeMachine \o/ 14:57
timotimo hm, or maybe not
Zoffix Yeah
lizmat yeah, from O1 I guess now 14:58
Zoffix "Changelog: made set() 1000000000000x faster" :)
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lizmat
.oO( ∞ x faster )
 14:59
Zoffix :)
Bowlslaw regarding the web crawler: do you think it is good design to store the links in an array, and then pass the array to a function that processes them? 15:00
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rindolf i added a new benchmark - github.com/shlomif/perl6-benchmark...66fe33f5f4 15:07
yoleaux 13:22Z <Zoffix> rindolf: looks like when the next Star comes out in about a month, you should see another ~39% speed boost: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...06-29#l607
sena_kun Bowlslaw, my only tip to writing crawlers is to keep sure you have a fixed-size(or at least sane number of) batch of workers. 15:08
Bowlslaw yes
sena_kun And never try to parse HTML with regexps. :) 15:09
El_Che rindolf++ 15:10
rindolf El_Che: thanks
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Bowlslaw hm, I just discovered XML::Parser... 15:11
looks better than DOM::Tiny for this job
sena_kun I used Gumbo, maybe somewhat long ago. 15:12
Not sure if better than XML::Parser though. 15:13
jnthn fwiw, gist.github.com/jnthn/b358ebfb6ea6...b9f62ba92b is my total hack of a crawler, and yes, it does both things sena_kun mentioned wrong :) 15:15
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sena_kun : ) 15:16
jnthn It does, however, do concurrent requsets right, and URL concat right, and is a nice example of using a react block to keep an async operation alive so long as there is work to be done. :)
El_Che jnthn: never meet your heroes, they say ;)
Bowlslaw Cro ?
El_Che Bowlslaw: you pronounce it by saying it repeatedly and dancing like a chicken 15:17
Bowlslaw: cro.services/
jnthn Bowlslaw: Docs at cro.services/docs/reference/cro-http-client and cro.services/docs/reference/cro-uri for the bits of Cro the example uses 15:18
Bowlslaw lol
cool, thanks
i dont' want to copy anyone's crawler though
El_Che Something jnthn does when he's not hacking on rakudo or on comma :)
jnthn El_Che: I thought that was MoarVM :P
El_Che jnthn: let's keep the internals contained 15:19
:)
jnthn Bowlslaw: Sure, wasn't giving you it to copy so much as to point out its overall design, which may be interesting :)
Bowlslaw I just got banned from r/perl on reddit because a politically motivated mod hates me... 15:20
perhaps here isn't the right place to state that. i'll deal with it
anyway, thanks jnthn
rindolf .tell Zoffix thanks! Note that www.reddit.com/r/programming/comme..._think_it/
yoleaux rindolf: I'll pass your message to Zoffix.
jnthn I guess if Cro::HTTP::Client had a "maximum outstanding requests allowed per client" option then my example *would* do throttling with a tiny change. :) 15:21
AlexDaniel rindolf: this actually bothered me a lot :) 15:22
randomascii++
15:22 domidumont joined
jnthn The regex would still be a bit naughty though :) 15:23
AlexDaniel rindolf: so TL;DR newspeed ÷ oldspeed and “5.5x as fast”, right? 15:26
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Bowlslaw yess 15:27
jnthn: i've been having trouble with concurrency 15:28
that really helps clarify it
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rindolf AlexDaniel: yes 15:30
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diakopter has anyone tried compiling MoarVM to wasm? 15:35
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Geth doc: db0f520a2d | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/objects.pod6
Changes slightly the object invocation example

To introduce in a natural way the indirect invocant syntax, closing #2131.
As usual, please reopen and/or edit subject if it is not addressed satisfactorily.		 15:43
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/objects
jmerelo diakopter: no one, AFAIK, but it would be cool if someone tried... 15:44
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Zoffix rindolf: err.... yes, 90% faster means different than .9x faster, but 3.9x faster means 390% faster 15:50
yoleaux 15:20Z <rindolf> Zoffix: thanks! Note that www.reddit.com/r/programming/comme..._think_it/
Zoffix AlexDaniel: the *times* in "2 times faster" refers to multiplication operator, also called "times". Thus, it's 200% faster, i.e. the ratio is 2:1, not 3:1 15:51
jkramer Zoffix: Isn't "2 times faster" = "the original speed plus 2 times the original speed"? 15:52
For 200% of the original speed I'd say "twice as fast"
moritz natural language sucks, let's just all speak Perl 6, ja?
AlexDaniel moritz: True
Zoffix No, 2 times faster means 2 x original speed
rindolf Zoffix: actually 2:1 is 100% faster
Zoffix Where are you getting the "plus" there?
rindolf: right, but it's also 2x faster 15:53
rindolf Zoffix: yes
AlexDaniel fast*er*
jkramer The fastER is a plus for me. :)
Zoffix rindolf: so then why did you "note that" to me? My commit message read 3.9x faster, didn' tit?
jkramer Something is X something'ER than Y than it's Y + X 15:54
Zoffix xkcd.com/309/
rindolf: oh, you were talking about the 39%, not the commit message. Never mind 15:55
rindolf Zoffix: <Zoffix> rindolf: looks like when the next Star comes out in about a month, you should see another ~39% speed boost: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...06-29#l607
Zoffix: yes
jmerelo What was the bot that said when some new feature was working? I need it for this github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2132 15:56
Zoffix jmerelo: bisect:
rindolf: what does 39% speed boost mean?
AlexDaniel jmerelo: actually try 6c: … first 15:57
Zoffix rindolf: to me it means original speed + 39% of original speed; is that what old-time / new-time give?
m: 1.1276149/0.80886579
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of "/" in expression "1.1276149/0.80886579" in sink context (line 1)
Zoffix m: say 1.1276149/0.80886579
camelia 1.394069219
jmerelo 6c: use NativeCall; my $number_of_ints = 10; my $ints = CArray[int32].allocate($number_of_ints);
committable6 jmerelo, gist.github.com/31d1e3b6933e9fd9bb...9c0a5baa38 15:58
Zoffix Like, I'd describe it as 39% faster.
15:58 diakopter left
Zoffix m: say 1.1276149/0.080886579 15:58
camelia 13.940692188
Zoffix I'd describe that as 13.9x faster...
Is that right?
AlexDaniel Zoffix: 13.9x as fast 15:59
rindolf Zoffix: github.com/shlomif/shlomif-compute...nt-percent 16:00
Zoffix AlexDaniel: for both?
AlexDaniel Zoffix: 1.39x as fast, 13.9x as fast 16:01
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Zoffix AlexDaniel: how would you write "twice faster" in ${n}x notation? 16:02
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AlexDaniel Zoffix: 3x as fast, I think? Depending on what you mean by twice faster 16:03
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Zoffix AlexDaniel: "two times faster" 16:03
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Zoffix how do you get 3x—which is pronounced as "three times"—from "two times"? 16:04
rindolf: I don't understand what that is or how to run it 16:06
rindolf: that formula is for the time, while the "faster" is the speed.
hobbs Zoffix: 50% faster is 1.5 times as fast. 2 times faster is 3 times as fast.
AlexDaniel well, if there's no speedup or slowdown, it's 0 times faster, right? And that's also 1x as fast?
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rindolf Zoffix: yes 16:07
Zoffix OK, I get it now
AlexDaniel Zoffix: but generally, the point I personally want to make is that our changelog and commit messages are confusing. It's not so much about who's right and who's wrong, but that the numbers are somewhat meaningless and inconsistent 16:08
jmerelo Geth: status
AlexDaniel releasable6: status
releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈22 days and ≈2 hours. 1 blocker. 0 out of 41 commits logged
AlexDaniel, Details: gist.github.com/713c521c146db66bdb...b1fec2a9a5
rindolf Zoffix: shlomif@telaviv1:~$ improvement-percent from 1.1276149 to 0.8088657939.4069218825536%
Zoffix AlexDaniel: make a bot that takes old run time and new run time and gives the right wording for speed 16:09
rindolf Zoffix: shlomif@telaviv1:~$ improvement-percent from 1.1276149 to 0.80886579 => 39.4069218825536%
AlexDaniel Zoffix: alright
AlexDaniel does that
Zoffix \o/
16:09 skids left, thowe left
AlexDaniel I was about to suggest creating a tool, but got ninja'd 16:09
Geth doc: bfd3f57503 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/nativecall.pod6
Clarifies when allocate was introduced closes #2132
16:09 eaterof is now known as eater
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/nativecall 16:09
Zoffix AlexDaniel: hm, maybe a tool would be better even? Somewhere in rakudo's tools/ ? 16:10
That way one can run it without being on IRC when making a commit
AlexDaniel let's start with that, yeah
can wrap a bot around it later
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Zoffix I think it's a language barrier thing :) both "twice faster" and "twice as fast" translate the same in Russian :) 16:12
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Zoffix ... and in French. 16:13
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Zoffix Makes me think I'm being trolled :P 16:14
lizmat Zoffix: as in Dutch, fwiw
jmerelo Zoffix: dvi davai
moritz both exist in German 16:15
lizmat moritz: but with the same meaning, or different meaning?
moritz "doppelt so schnell" == twice as fast, "zweimal schneller" == "two times faster" 16:17
hobbs Zoffix: for what it's worth, I generally try to use "<decimal> times as fast", without using percent, and without using "x times faster", to be as clear as possible.
moritz with the same possible interpretations and ambiguities as in English
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hobbs but for a small change I'll still probably say a 10% speedup or whatever 16:17
to mean 1.1x as fast
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AlexDaniel what's up with freenode again… 16:18
16:18 jmerelo left
hobbs le network is le split 16:18
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Zoffix hobbs: and do you compute the number as `old-time / new-time` ? 16:19
AlexDaniel alright, don't worry everyone, I have the tool coming… :) 16:21
SmokeMachine m: say set(1) =:= set(1)
camelia False
Zoffix :)
hobbs Zoffix: yes, that works
Zoffix SmokeMachine: that now constant-folds, but the object would still be different (unless it's set(), without args). Basically it now calls that routine at compile time instead of runtime 16:22
And it's the same object for set() because there's a special candidate for it that makes one object at begin time
timotimo don't we still clone the object on the way out?
Zoffix m: dd set() =:= set() 16:23
camelia Bool::True
Zoffix nope
timotimo oh, also, every call to set() will be compile-time-evaluated separately, there is no cache or something
16:23 kalkin--- left
timotimo so set(1) =:= set(1) won't be true 16:23
Zoffix right
m: multi foo { BEGIN rand }; multi foo(|) { rand }; [foo(), foo(), foo(), foo(42), foo(42), foo(42)] 16:24
camelia ( no output )
Zoffix m: multi foo { BEGIN rand }; multi foo(|) { rand }; say [foo(), foo(), foo(), foo(42), foo(42), foo(42)]
camelia [0.4724516930069058 0.4724516930069058 0.4724516930069058 0.4151627299452856 0.9904360721265346 0.4774319163671893]
buggable New CPAN upload: Amazon-DynamoDB-0.1.tar.gz by HANENKAMP modules.perl6.org/dist/Amazon::Dyna...:HANENKAMP
SmokeMachine yes, but its only called once and the original calls are changed to the response of that single call (isnt it what constant fold means?) so, it shoud "return" the same object every time, shouldnt?
Zoffix m: multi foo { BEGIN rand }; multi foo(|) { rand }; say [(BEGIN foo), (BEGIN foo), (BEGIN foo), (BEGIN foo 42), (BEGIN foo 42), (BEGIN foo 42)] 16:25
camelia [0.6006040438087445 0.6006040438087445 0.6006040438087445 0.21298813403474615 0.8253930471542793 0.7956978070765766]
hobbs speed is 1/time, so if the time multiplier is new-time/old-time, the speed multiplier is new-time/old-time :) 16:26
argh
speed is 1/time, so if the time multiplier is new-time/old-time, the speed multiplier is old-time/new-time :)
Zoffix SmokeMachine: ^ this is what's it like now. The `is pure` thing just added those `BEGIN`s in `(BEGIN foo)`. But if you look at the candidates, only the argless one has *another* BEGIN, which makes that candidate always return the same thing, while the other candidates return a new one
hobbs ignore the screwup
SmokeMachine m: sub foo is pure {rand}; say foo, foo, foo
camelia 0.55048195659059060.37231769571267890.8481266995271738
AlexDaniel hobbs: right 16:27
SmokeMachine m: sub foo is pure {say "here"; 42}; say foo, foo, foo
camelia here
here
here
424242
Zoffix m: sub foo is pure {say "here"; 42}; for ^3 { say foo } 16:28
camelia here
42
42
42
Zoffix m: sub foo {say "here"; 42}; for ^3 { say foo }
camelia here
42
here
42
here
42
Zoffix SmokeMachine: ^ that's what `is pure` did. It called it once at compile time and the returned value was then used 3 times at runtime. Without pure, at runtime you're genning the value each time
Bowlslaw ok, Cro is really cool 16:29
Zoffix m: sub foo is pure {BEGIN say "here"; 42}; say foo, foo, foo
camelia here
424242
Zoffix SmokeMachine: ^ and this is what that `BEGIN` in argless `set()` candidate does. So it results in there being just one object for all argless `set()` calls 16:30
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SmokeMachine m: sub foo is pure {say "here"; 42}; my $last; for ^3 { my $a = foo; say $a =:= $last; $last = $a } 16:30
camelia here
False
False
False
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Zoffix That's not a good test, because 42 is interned and also `=:=` cares about container, but you're storing it in a different container in your code 16:31
SmokeMachine m: sub foo is pure {say "here"; 42}; my $last; for ^3 { my $a = foo; say $a<> =:= $last<>; $last = $a } 16:32
camelia here
False
True
True
SmokeMachine Zoffix: I didnt get it...
m: sub foo is pure {say "here"; class :: {}.new}; my $last; for ^3 { my $a = foo; say $a<> =:= $last<>; $last = $a }
camelia here
False
True
True
SmokeMachine Zoffix: if it runs only once, it will always "return" the same object... (in my head) 16:34
Zoffix SmokeMachine: that's why you get `True True` there
SmokeMachine: and in there, it *is* the same object.
SmokeMachine m: sub foo(|) is pure {say "here"; class :: {}.new}; my $last; for ^3 { my $a = foo 1; say $a<> =:= $last<>; $last = $a } 16:35
camelia here
False
True
True
SmokeMachine Zoffix: yes, but why isnt `set(1)` doing the same?
Zoffix SmokeMachine: yes
SmokeMachine m: set(1) =:= set(1) 16:36
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of "=:=" in expression "set(1) =:= set(1)" in sink context (line 1)
Zoffix m: my $last; for ^3 { my $a = set 1; say $a<> =:= $last<>; $last = $a }
camelia False
True
True
SmokeMachine m: say set(1) =:= set(1)
camelia False
Zoffix SmokeMachine: but in `say set(1) =:= set(1)` that's no longer a single call
SmokeMachine: there are two calls at compile time
SmokeMachine Zoffix: hum! now I got it!!!
Zoffix :)
SmokeMachine Zoffix: sorry, I think I did missread you earlier 16:37
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Zoffix SmokeMachine: each time it appears in the sauce, at compile time it gets executed and replaced by the result, so `for ^100 { say foo; say foo }` will call it twice at compile time, replace the calls with results, and at run time with print each one 100 times 16:37
SmokeMachine woundnt be possible/better to make only once to every call with the same parameters? 16:38
Zoffix And without `is pure` that would've been "at compile time call nothing, and then at run time **call** and then print each one 100 times"
SmokeMachine: you'd gain speed, but you'd spend a lot of RAM storing all those results from every call
SmokeMachine but only at compile time, right? 16:39
timotimo given that we rely on constant folding to do negative numbers, we'd be keeping every negative number around, for example
Zoffix SmokeMachine: no, at runtime too
SmokeMachine Zoffix: the constant fold isnt changing the ast? 16:40
sorry, at ast there are no functions yet... right?
Zoffix ran out of brain 16:41
timotimo yeah, i'd expect the cache to be discarded when compilation is over 16:42
Zoffix Ah, ok :)
timotimo well, at the end of optimization already
SmokeMachine I was thinking that once the `is pure` is found it would create a constant with the result of that call and change every call with that parameter to use that constant instead
timotimo no, that's not how it's implemented 16:47
Zoffix SmokeMachine: how do you figure out if a call has the same parameter as another call had? 16:48
SmokeMachine I mean only if its known at compile time
timotimo then you still have the troublesome task of deciding what objects count as "the same" 16:49
Zoffix SmokeMachine: yeah, but how do you figure out that in `set(1, Foo); set(1, Foo)` both are using the same parameters? I imagine the cost of figuring that out, together with storing the results during optimization stage, might overall end up without a good boost 16:50
And that it's cheaper to just assume they're different.
SmokeMachine Zoffix: that makes sense...
but would be faesable it Foo were Immutable too... (but I got it, thanks!) 16:51
Zoffix SmokeMachine: it is, 'cause it's just a type object, but you're gonna be calling .WHICH or eqaddr or something, which is what Set.new probably does under the hood, so your optimization to figure out if you can save calling Set.new would run in about the same time as actually calling Set.new and you'd still have to call Set.new most of the time, is what I mean it might look like at the end 16:55
Not that I'm an optimizatinon expert or anything.
SmokeMachine Zoffix: that makes sense... thanks! 16:56
Zoffix Though on the topic of more expensive static optimizations: we could have an extra level optimizations for [installed] modules or something. This way, the scripts don't take ages to compile, but when you can spend some time to squeeze every last bit out of it, you'd set a higher optimization level and optimize a module to the max when installing it. 16:57
We already have the level controls
Like here: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...1695-L1698
Those ops won't get optimized if you drop the level lower
hobbs set the controls for the heart of the sun
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lizmat I could imagine an extra level that would look of the .WHICHes of pure objects that got WValled 16:58
keep those .WHICHes in a hash, and use the one from the hash if there's a match 17:00
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Zoffix \o/ 17:02
p6noob Hi :-) 17:03
Zoffix \o 17:04
p6noob use NativeCall; class B is repr('CStruct') { has uint32 $.b is required } ; B.new(:1b) give error "CStruct representation attribute not yet fully implemented..." but the same thing without "is repr('CStruct')" works just fine. 17:05
expected behavior maybe?
sorry that "use NativeCall" is irrelevant to the example. 17:06
Zoffix p6noob: I think it's complaining about `is required` flag 17:07
p6noob yes, it is for sure.. but all that changed was adding repr('CStruct')
isn't it okay to still require a field be initialized by the .new caller for a CStruct? 17:08
(using the implicit .new)
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Zoffix p6noob: no idea how the `repr()` stuff does things, but I filed a bug report: R#1993 17:10
synopsebot R#1993 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1993 Bogus(?) Error when `is required` an attribute of CStruct repr
p6noob Thank you Zoffix, I wasn't sure where to file the bug
Zoffix p6noob: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues is a good place 17:11
There are some more places listed on rakudo.org/bugs but if you're unsure where to go, just file in github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues 17:12
Geth rakudo.org: 200adf0015 | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | templates/bugs.html.ep
[REAPP] Add our User Experience Repo to list of bug trackers
 17:14
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Bowlslaw failedis `zed upgrade` safe to run? 17:19
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Bowlslaw i mean, "zef upgrade" 17:20
AlexDaniel rindolf, Zoffix, jkramer, moritz, lizmat: can you try github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/e2...d3e8779ee0 ? 17:28
and let me know what you think
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Tison in nqp, how can I test if a file exist? 17:41
emmm, it seems like `try` 17:42
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AlexDaniel e: use nqp; say nqp::stat('Sakefile', nqp::const::STAT_EXISTS) 17:45
evalable6 1
AlexDaniel e: use nqp; say nqp::stat(onetuhoneuhoanduasoiseoa', nqp::const::STAT_EXISTS)
evalable6 (exit code 1) 04===SORRY!04=== Error while compiling /tmp/eZuZcvtqxh
Unable …
AlexDaniel, Full output: gist.github.com/985534a181b8dc37d0...d5a0456639
AlexDaniel e: use nqp; say nqp::stat('onetuhoneuhoanduasoiseoa', nqp::const::STAT_EXISTS)
evalable6 0
AlexDaniel Tison: maybe this? I don't know really
Tison I'm reminded that there is a test file 019-file-ops.t 17:46
let me take a look at that
AlexDaniel Tison: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/e935....pm6#L1244
Tison ok( nqp::stat('CREDITS', nqp::const::STAT_EXISTS) == 1, 'nqp::stat exists');
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Olorig Hello Perl 6 people. Where can I find documentation about the next version of the language? Perl 6.d I suppose? 18:34
El_Che Olorig: github.com/perl6/6.d-prep/blob/mas...EATURES.md 18:42
Olorig: read the remarks in github.com/perl6/6.d-prep 18:43
(the readme)
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Olorig Thanks! Looks quite cosmetic 18:50
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Zoffix missed by that much :P 19:08
But wanted to say, those are just the TODOs. There's a huge number of features in 6.d, but a lot of them are available now, without the use of `use v6.d.PREVIEW`, because they don't conflict with the 6.c spec and don't have any adverse effects that would make us want to push them to 6.d 19:09
So when 6.d is released, stuff like Str.uniparse will become officially part of the language., 19:10
Bowlslaw cool! 19:12
I wonder what kinda stuff you guys have...
Perl 6 seems absolutely huge already.
Zoffix It's all on the map :) map.perl6.party/ 19:13
man, there's a bunch of stuff that says "will issue deprecation warnings in 6.d" but we won't actually be able to do it :| 19:14
*in the docs it says
jdv79 p6 has virtually no complexity limit;) 19:15
Zoffix meh, people keep saying how Perl 6 is huge... Yesterday, I was watching lizmat's talk and a bunch of Perl 5's routines she mentioned I never even heard of.
jdv79 keeps it interesting
those are just historical oddities 19:16
Zoffix and in p6 they're just alternative syntaxes ;)
jdv79 ha
Zoffix AlexDaniel: looks good. Now I just need to remember to use it :) 19:17
Bowlslaw Perl 5 is also huge 19:19
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Zoffix Not according to Perl 5 people who keep trashing my p6 articles :P 19:20
Bowlslaw wut??
btw, it's really cool that "my $client = Cro::HTTP::Client.new;" returns a promise
Zoffix Bowlslaw: "quite a few times now I thought it was time to start learning Perl 6 […] And every time some blog post like this one comes around and I think: no. There's so much utterly unreadable syntax in here." 19:21
:)
Bowlslaw lolwut
it's unreadable for me
then, i learn how to read it, and then it's readable 19:22
mind = blown
sena_kun s/unreadable/I am too lazy to learn/
Bowlslaw hm, I like Cro, and I'm probably going to start using it more, but I am worried that I don't understand react { whenever { } } yet 19:23
Zoffix I don't understand it either, but that never stopped me :D 19:25
Bowlslaw LOL
I'm putting something on pastebin so I can ask for some clarification
19:26 |oLa| joined
Bowlslaw pastebin.com/G0jrt99j 19:27
i don't understand the difference between reactwhenever and race
if I want to use HTTP::UserAgent in a reach/whenever block, I can't just pass the result, because it's not a Promise
whereas Cro::HTTP:Client IS a Promise
Zoffix `react` is an event loop basically, it sits and waits for the stuff in side of it to all be done. And the stuff is specified with `whenever`s and they can accept a bunch of things like Supplies and Promises. The .race thing is just an under-the-hood parallelizer. 19:29
m: react { whenever Supply.interval: ½ { say 10-$++; $++ ≥ 10 and done } }; say "Take off" 19:31
camelia 10
9
8
7
6
5
4
3
2
1
0
Take off
Zoffix it's like an "event loop" 19:32
"whenever $event-happens { do things }"
Bowlslaw $event-happens must be a Promise? 19:34
Zoffix Bowlslaw: above it's a Supply
m: react { whenever 42 {} } 19:35
camelia ( no output )
Zoffix hm
m: react { whenever class {} {} }
camelia ( no output )
Zoffix I was expecting it to complain and tell me what sort of things it likes
Bowlslaw so, can I do something like...
Zoffix But it *can* be a Promise
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Bowlslaw react { whenever $ua..get($url) -> $response { get-link() } } 19:36
Zoffix yeah
Bowlslaw is that concurrent?
it is an HTTP::UerAgent object i believe 19:37
Zoffix No, just asynchronous
You could do `react { whenever $ua..get($url) -> $response { start get-link() } }` 19:38
like shove the get-link stuff into a promise
Bowlslaw ooh
that would spawn a new thread for each new link?
Zoffix That would stick into the work queu
e
Bowlslaw hmm 19:41
so I could make an on-demand Supply..
which fetches links...
and whenever it fetches a link
it processes it?
Zoffix ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 19:42
Bowlslaw lol
Zoffix I think I made something for you for that a couple days ago?
With Supply.throttle
Bowlslaw i think so... 19:43
Zoffix $ RAKUDO_SCHEDULER_DEBUG=1 perl6 -e 'await ^100 .map: { start sleep 0 }' 2>&1 | grep 'Added a general worker thread' | wc -l 19:44
0
$ RAKUDO_SCHEDULER_DEBUG=1 perl6 -e 'await ^100 .map: { start sleep .05 }' 2>&1 | grep 'Added a general worker thread' | wc -l
9
$ RAKUDO_SCHEDULER_DEBUG=1 perl6 -e 'await ^100 .map: { start sleep ½ }' 2>&1 | grep 'Added a general worker thread' | wc -l
57
Bowlslaw: ^ that's the answer to "would that spawn a new thread"
The numbers are spawned threads
Bowlslaw i've been using $*THREAD 19:45
Zoffix And that's the general queue, there's also affinity queue that's used in stuff like Proc::Async
Where it tries to keep number of workers smaller or something
oh and timer queue 19:46
masak why is the name "affinity queue"? because the tasks have an affinity to something?
Zoffix "General worker threads all pull from the main queue. If they have no work, they may steal from timer threads. Timer worker threads are intended to handle time-based events. They pull events from the time-sensitive queue, and they will not do any work stealing so as to be ready and available for timer events. Affinity worker threads each have their own queue. These are useful where events will be processed 19:48
using a Supply, which is serial, and so there's no point at all in contending over the data. Work will not be stolen from anaffinity worker thread."
No idea. Ask jnthn :)
affinity to their queue? :) 19:49
masak yeah, reads like
my first association was "affine logic", which is not 100% unrelated, since it's also about resource usage
but "the tasks have an affinity to this queue" sounds like the real reason for the name 19:50
SmokeMachine is there any way to use grammar to parse stream/supply of strings?
masak SmokeMachine: I think at some point there was supposed to be a Cat type, which is also Stringy like Str, but more lazy/unbounded 19:51
m: say Cat
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared name:
Cat used at line 1. Did you mean 'Rat'?
masak haha
Zoffix :)
masak no, I did not mean Rat, camelia
Zoffix Nah, Cat is not yet implemented
masak .oO( we just Ca't do that yet )
Zoffix It'll need some regex diving
SmokeMachine masak: thanks
Zoffix And mad hax0r skills.
SmokeMachine is there any documentation showing how should it look like? 19:52
masak almost certainly not
Zoffix SmokeMachine: I think there's brief mention of Cat in the speculations ( design.perl6.org )
SmokeMachine: basically a Cat to Str is what a Seq is to a List 19:53
So it could be infinite, really
masak it's mentioned a total of 20 times in the spec
SmokeMachine got it!
Zoffix SmokeMachine: here's my failed attempt at implementing it: github.com/zoffixznet/perl6-Kitten#synopsis 19:54
Bowlslaw Zoffix: I think I have something here, but I want to verify that it does that I think it does
masak which means it's entirely untested in practice
oh, Zoffix++ has attempted it, cool :)
SmokeMachine and `Grammar.parse` should work on it
Zoffix Yeah, it's needed for some IO::Handle stuff
Bowlslaw Zoffix: What do you think of this? pastebin.com/auJt8Dyx
SmokeMachine how should it work with regexes? 19:55
Bowlslaw jnthn helped me earlier with Cro, but I want to use HTTP::UserAgent and DOM::Tiny instead, for now anyway
Zoffix SmokeMachine: yeah, I think so. I know regexes are meant to work on them, so I think there'd be defined semantics on what would happen if you do `/^ ... $/` on a Cat. Would it die, like .elems dies on lazy lists?
Bowlslaw so I tried to transfer the idea of his code to mine
Zoffix Bowlslaw: you're probably better use Cro's user agent. It's possible HTTP::UserAgent is not thread safe (or rather the IO::Socket::SSL it uses or something) 19:56
Bowlslaw hmmm
SmokeMachine Zoffix: why Kitten failed? 19:57
Zoffix SmokeMachine: because you need to teach regexes/grammars to handle Cat type and my character is too low-level to hack on that yet :) 19:58
Bowlslaw alright, thanks for the help
I suppose Cro is the useragent stuff of Perl 6 now
Zoffix Bowlslaw: FWIW, your current setup is fine, but it's not gonna be fine if you move that inner sub out of react 19:59
m: use v6.d.PREVIEW; react { foo }; sub foo { whenever 42 {} }
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Cannot have a 'whenever' block outside the scope of a 'supply' or 'react' block
at <tmp>:1
------> 3EVIEW; react { foo }; sub foo { whenever7⏏5 42 {} }
masak I sometimes dream also of being able to do grammars on byte streams
to do complex deserialization, essentially
Bowlslaw Zoffix: thanks
Zoffix It's forbidden in 6.d, because in 6.c it was allowed by accident, but it robs us of a lot of optimization opportunities
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Zoffix & 20:00
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tbrowder_ m: my $s=“#comment”; my $idx=rindex $s, ‘#’; say $idx 20:25
camelia 0
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tbrowder_ hm, i’m getting a failure on that ^^^ on rakudo 2018.06-25-ge9351cb built on moar 2018.06 20:34
testing master branch... 20:35
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AlexDaniel 6c: my $s=“#comment”; my $idx=rindex $s, ‘#’; say $idx 20:37
committable6 AlexDaniel, ¦6c (31 commits): «0␤»
AlexDaniel tbrowder_: ↑ looks correct?
tbrowder_ yes 20:40
SmokeMachine 6c: my $s=“#comment#”; say rindex $s, ‘#’; say index $s, ‘#’ 20:41
tbrowder_ i got my 2018.06 not as a download but as a tag from upstream
committable6 SmokeMachine, ¦6c (31 commits): «8␤0␤»
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tbrowder_ where are rakudo public keys located? 21:04
that info needs to be on rakudo website somewhere, maybe on the download page? 21:05
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tbrowder_ AlexDaniel: am i missing info on rakudo website for public keys used to sign releases? otherwise, i'll file an issue. 21:13
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Bowlslaw Hello again 21:14
AlexDaniel tbrowder_: github.com/perl6/nqp/issues/426
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tbrowder_ i could make entries on the rakudo website, or a pr if i could find the source of it. 21:19
AlexDaniel tbrowder_: honestly I don't know where most people would expect to find a public key 21:23
if they download the tarball from the website, then IMO a public key located on that same website is of no use
but 🤷
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AlexDaniel u: ∞ꝏꚙ 21:26
unicodable6 AlexDaniel, U+221E INFINITY [Sm] (∞)
AlexDaniel, U+A74F LATIN SMALL LETTER OO [Ll] (ꝏ)
AlexDaniel, U+A699 CYRILLIC SMALL LETTER DOUBLE O [Ll] (ꚙ)
tbrowder_ not so, i think somehow magically when you sign you use your private key, so the public key from a key server (not on the website) then is used to check that you signed it
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Xliff \o 21:30
Can you set a constant on an object?
Or is that something you can do in the Unit?
tbrowder_ oh, and your key should be signed by someone else, etc., to establish a chain of trust. debian or the perl foundation may have some better info on established key trust chains
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AlexDaniel tbrowder_: that's an interesting idea 21:33
tbrowder_ what we need to do at perl gatherings is to have prearranged key signing sessions, everyone checks ids and signs keys, can be loads of fun! lots of info on how to go about that.
AlexDaniel tbrowder_: I think debian maintainers simply use the same key to check new releases
tbrowder_: so if someone else cuts the release (with a different key obviously), then we'd have to notify them
or maybe we should even multi sign them? I don't know 21:34
that's a wonderful question and I'd love to know what's the proper way to do it
tbrowder_ the guys at edument (jnthn, masak, etc.) could start, and someone like lizmat and drforr and jmerelo who go to lots of perl places could establish a pretty good trust chain in a short while
AlexDaniel fwiw I've never been to any conference… :) 21:35
tbrowder_ the details for that i've seen. i'll find it and put it somewhere easy to find.
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tbrowder_ and that's a good excuse for you to go to one or more conferences, or at least meet some of the gang in a small, informal gathering somewhere! 21:36
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tbrowder_ here's the debian howto: wiki.debian.org/Keysigning 21:38
pretty straight forward 21:39
AlexDaniel so rust tars are signed with this key: keybase.io/rust 21:42
and I wonder who has access to the private key then
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AlexDaniel yeah I should look more into this stuff 21:48
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benjikun Bowlslaw: how are you? 22:02
Bowlslaw benjikun: Pretty good. jnthn and some others showed me Cro. I had been looking at it for a bit, but I just started using it today. 22:06
How about you?
benjikun Bowlslaw: sweet, I'm writing a forum in cro and my personal website uses it now too
doing pretty good
all things considered
Bowlslaw Haha, I am planning on writing my website in Cro and hosting it on my RPi 22:07
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benjikun It's pretty comfy if you've used libraries like it before in other languages 22:09
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xi- Cro looks pretty great 22:15
AlexDaniel yeah 22:20
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buggable New CPAN upload: FindBin-0.1.7.tar.gz by LEMBARK modules.perl6.org/dist/FindBin:cpan:LEMBARK 22:44
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tbrowder_ ref: cro does anyone know of a website using it that has all or most of the code in public view? i would love to see an example cookbook solution with either nginx or apache. 23:09
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timotimo you'd do it the same way you'd do any web app; mod_proxy to the port your endpoint runs at 23:11
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_Xliff_ I am actually thinking about moving some in-dev projects to Cro. 23:19
Was actually curious if some aspects of HTTP::UserAgent were used in the design of Cro. Now it looks like the similarities are due to the protocol more than anything else. 23:20
Still, I think some of the documentation could use some work. :)
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_Xliff_ Who works on the edument.se pages? 23:26
"Jonathan's work with Comma shows once again our skills in Per, but also our ability to build development tools, especially on the IDEA platform." - Acke Salem / CEO
^^ s/Per/Perl/
tell jnthn edument.se/en/news/now-we-launch-comma <- This page has a mispelling of Perl in the quote from the CEO. 23:27
.tell jnthn edument.se/en/news/now-we-launch-comma <- This page has a mispelling of Perl in the quote from the CEO.
yoleaux _Xliff_: I'll pass your message to jnthn.
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