»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or rakudo:, or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_logs/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 May 2018.
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metelik the mbc actually produced something that looks like moar vm's binary 00:00
i shall keep experimenting
;)
have a good night folks 00:01
timotimo it will probably not work with just moar foo.moar, nor will it work with perl6 foo.moar
it will, however, be possible to "use" it, if you direct it at the file in the right way
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timotimo or, you know, make it a module and use automatic precomp ;) 00:01
metelik o-O
I need to comprehend more about the guts 00:02
it only complained about some bits missing: nhandled exception: While looking for 'ModuleLoader.moarvm': no such file or directory at <unknown>:1 (xxx:<dependencies+deserialize>) 00:03
timotimo yeah
metelik just ran out iof the bat
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jmerelo squashable6: status 06:14
squashable6 jmerelo, Next SQUASHathon in 25 days and ≈3 hours (2018-08-04 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo releasable: status
releasable6: status 06:15
.tell AlexDaniel releasable seems to be down.
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
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AlexDaniel . 06:16
yoleaux 06:15Z <jmerelo> AlexDaniel: releasable seems to be down.
AlexDaniel jmerelo: looks ok to me :)
releasable6: status
releasable6 AlexDaniel, Next release in ≈12 days and ≈12 hours. 3 blockers. 0 out of 85 commits logged
AlexDaniel, Details: gist.github.com/1fcef7b03612399078...45893870ea
AlexDaniel 12 days… it feels like I *just* did the previous one 06:17
jmerelo AlexDaniel: next one is on you too?
AlexDaniel jmerelo: yeah github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/mast...e-releases 06:18
jmerelo AlexDaniel: best of luck!
AlexDaniel it's a good question actually
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AlexDaniel I'm interested to know who'd be willing to do a release in case I ever can't :) 06:20
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jmerelo AlexDaniel: will you be going to Glasgow? 06:23
AlexDaniel jmerelo: no 06:24
jmerelo AlexDaniel: too bad...
AlexDaniel jmerelo: actually I haven't been to any conference so far
jmerelo: which is kinda sad! I'd love to meet people 06:25
jmerelo AlexDaniel: it would be a good one to start...
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AlexDaniel jmerelo: maybe FOSDEM 2019 :) 06:25
jmerelo AlexDaniel: also a good place to start. 06:27
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jmerelo A new question on using callwith stackoverflow.com/questions/512399...-it-exhaus 07:18
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Geth doc: 493b1e35e8 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files
Added a link to native types

Since most of the other related issues have been addressed, including the early issue #1376, this closes #1879		 08:18
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DAKEIT HII 08:58
HAOW ARE U 08:59
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masak greetings, fellow caps-lock lover... dang, too late 08:59
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lookatme haha 09:11
tyil tbrowder_: no problem 09:16
yoleaux 8 Jul 2018 22:45Z <tbrowder_> tyil: i’m not going to make my eta for defn class today, life intervened, sorry.
tyil I'm still very happy you're taking the time and effort to fix it :>
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Geth doc: 63430f9dc2 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/contexts.pod6
Some reflow and fixes format errors
 09:46
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/contexts
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Altreus I see this is fairly old but it says I can call `close` on a Supply, which I can't deathbyperl6.com/create-a-perl6-te...gress-bar/ 10:15
in fact I can't seem to end a Supply.interval at all
I see that I can call done on a Supplier, but I don't get a Supplier from Supply.interval
buggable New CPAN upload: Test-Performance-0.1.0.tar.gz by TYIL modules.perl6.org/dist/Test::Perfor...:cpan:TYIL 10:25
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jnthn m: my $tap = Supply.interval(0.5).tap(*.say); sleep 4; $tap.close; 10:29
camelia 0
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Altreus ah it stops when it has no more taps? 10:33
I think I saw that in the doc actually
lizmat .tell jmerelo Isn't it time you added yourself to the rakudo CREDITS ? 10:34
yoleaux lizmat: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
Altreus docs.perl6.org/type/Supply#method_tap this says "The &done callback is called when the done method on the supply is called" but no done method is documented. It also says "For a live supply the done routine will be called on the parent Supplier." 10:35
jnthn Indeed, a Supply has no done method. 10:36
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Geth doc: 24ce9ef927 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/functions.pod6
Improves callwith documentation

Provides a few examples, explains how it works, thanks mainly to
  @jnthn as answer to [this
question](stackoverflow.com/questions/512399...51242835).
This closes #1904.		 10:42
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/functions
jmerelo lizmat: I don't think I've done anything in Rakudo proper but a bunch of issues... 10:43
yoleaux 10:34Z <lizmat> jmerelo: Isn't it time you added yourself to the rakudo CREDITS ?
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jmerelo Altreus: Can you please raise an issue with that? 11:12
Altreus caaaaaaaaaaaan do
jmerelo Altreus: thanks!
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Altreus Here it is github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2161 11:18
jmerelo Altreus: great!
Altreus we currently have a test.p6 in the project root but we want to put the alpha on cpan. Do we have to clean up that test script or does the ecosystem have a way of deciding what to install from a tarball? 11:28
when I say test
I mean "Try it out" rather than "output TAP"
timotimo you can just not have it end up in the tarball ;) 11:29
lizmat Altreus: add it to .gitignore ?
timotimo something something MANIFEST something something gitignore
Altreus well we kinda want to track changes to it until we have proper tests
I guess we could fix up a real test first
too dead ... need coffee :P 11:30
timotimo i think unless it's under bin/ or in the provides or resources section in the meta6.json it won't actually end up in the system after installation?
Geth doc/master: 56 commits pushed by 14 authors
review: github.com/perl6/doc/compare/24ce9...6eb2a34c6a
stmuk hmm my attempt to keep git history on importing a page from the old perl 6 book into doc seems to have mostly worked 11:34
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Geth doc: d7b6f9792d | (Juerd Waalboer)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Sub.pod6
Sub identifier is optional
 11:43
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Sub
Geth doc: 0c0dc4c0ca | (Juerd Waalboer)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/Sub.pod6
Add example of named sub

Usage with an identifier is more common than without.		 11:44
lizmat Juerd: why not say &hello.name; # "hello" 11:45
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Juerd lizmat: I was copying the other example's example 11:46
s/copying/following/
lizmat aha.. ok
only looked at the diff
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Juerd lizmat: I'm tempted to rewrite entire chunks of documentation though 11:47
Wish I could really spend time and energy on that
lizmat if it feels good, do it!
Juerd: we'll gladly accept any time and energy you can spend on it 11:48
but only if it feels good to you :-)
Juerd I think there should first be some discussion about example code that is overly complicated and shows off esoteric parts of the language... 11:49
4 lines into example code in class Sub, a postfix:<♥> is defined. A few lines later, term:<♥>. 11:50
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Juerd For now, I'm working on a series of short articles that look like documentation but aren't. 11:55
That's easier than refactoring the official docs
lizmat ++Juerd 11:56
Juerd I have no idea yet how and when these will be released
stmuk "there is more than one way to document it"
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jmerelo Juerd: how do you define esoteric parts of the language? 12:12
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jmerelo Juerd: I mean, you might be right about that particular example. But it's virtually impossible to write a standalone example without using "esoteric" parts of the example. 12:13
stmuk perl *is* estoeric
jmerelo stmuk: that, too.
Juerd: also easier than refactoring the official docs is simply raising an issue if you find something extremely complicated. Please do that, by all means... 12:14
Juerd: by all means, write more documentation, tutorials, howtos, gists, the whole nine yards. But the official documentation *still* would need to be improved.
pmurias jmerelo: what do you mean by standalone example? 12:15
Juerd jmerelo: I think the definition from WordNet is suitable: "confined to and understandable by only an enlightened inner circle". I think code examples in documentation should be restricted to the topic of the documentation (in this case class Sub, not syntax) and very common language features that programmers from any language will at least recognise or be able to guess the meaning of.
jmerelo pmurias: using only the concept that is being exemplified, basically. 12:16
El_Che jmerelo: add yourself to CREDITS in case you haven't done so
jmerelo Juerd: but those are subs too. And need to be documented.
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jmerelo Juerd: I'm not saying you are not right about the particular example. It might be too esoteric. That's why it's better to raise an issue and let's see what can be done with it. 12:17
pmurias we could have a separate example for simple subs
Juerd jmerelo: It needs to be documented, but not in the documentation for this class. There's now overlab between docs.perl6.org/type/Sub and docs.perl6.org/language/functions
jmerelo Juerd: overlap is not really a problem. Documenting something twice, contextualized, is OK. 12:18
Juerd jmerelo: But really this discussion, although I think it needs to be done, is why I'm not yet opening issues or refactoring anything.
lizmat afk for a bit&
Juerd jmerelo: It really drains my energy faster than it should. Note that this is not in any way your or anyone's fault, but just a result of personal circumstances. 12:19
jmerelo Juerd: no problem. It would be wonderful that you did that series of tutorials. 12:20
Juerd They're more faqs really
Or, well, q&a, because I didn't keep statistics :D 12:21
jmerelo Juerd: that's great. Please feel free to include them into the official FAQ.
pmurias jmerelo: mixing "crazy" things into related documentation for other things is a problem 12:22
docs.perl6.org/type/Sub is describing the Sub class
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jmerelo pmurias: the problem is what's crazy or not. You can't teach perl 6 in the same way you would do it with C 12:23
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jmerelo pmurias: most "crazy" things have a point, which is illustrating the intent, the p6yness, and awesomeness of a language. 12:23
pmurias jmerelo: and the docs have information on how you change the Perl 6 grammar
jmerelo pmurias: it does not hurt to explain something else (or link) when the context is a different concept. But it's quite difficult to explain a single feature in a language without the rest of the language 12:24
pmurias: which is a sane thing to do, maybe :-) I mean, if you can do it, why not document it? C docs have information on pointers, right? Best way to shoot yourself in the foot... 12:25
[Coke] \\
jmerelo [Coke]: hi! 12:26
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pmurias jmerelo: it does hurt 12:27
jmerelo pmurias: but anyway, it's much better to refer to particular examples than talk in general. If you have seen some example whose meaning might have been muddled by the presence of some, let's say, external to the concept, features, just raise an issue!
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pmurias jmerelo: even on the same page where are using 'oi‽' as example literal 12:28
jmerelo pmurias: I actually love that kind of things (but it wasn't me who put it there).
pmurias: I mean, what that example is trying to illustrate are "esoteric" *fix subs. And Perl 6 is fully unicode compliant. If we don't do Unicode in examples, nobody will. 12:29
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Zoffix e: class :: is IO::Handle { submethod TWEAK { self.encoding: 'utf8' }; }.new.print 12:30
evalable6 (exit code 1) Cannot do 'print' on a handle in binary mode
in block <unit> at /tmp/N4g76hNZAB line 1
jmerelo pmurias: it's also using a kind of quotes that is not standard. Why not? Perl 6 can do it. We can't do the examples that say "See? Perl 6 is exactly the same as any other language, but with fancy sigils!"
Zoffix I don't get it. Why doesn't it set the $!decoder ?
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rindolf Zoffix: hi 12:31
Zoffix hi
pmurias jmerelo: why can't we do such examples?
stmuk grrr how long does doc.perl6.org take to update? 12:32
rindolf Zoffix: see github.com/shlomif/rakudo-git-master-install
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Zoffix stmuk: ~10m. The build looks busted: docs.perl6.org/build-log/build-201...+00:00.log 12:33
pmurias if a beginner is learning Perl 6 IMHO he should see examples that are easy to understand and are illustraing a point rather then throwing esoteric unrelated stuff at him
stmuk Zoffix: ah its the page I added .. odd since it rendered ok "on my system" 12:34
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stmuk oh I didn't test pod2onepage 12:34
[Coke] lots of test failures in docs on doc/Language/101-basics.pod6 12:35
pmurias jmerelo: sure if you already know Perl 6 you might think and iterrobang is awesome
jmerelo: but going in this direction wouldn't variable names in Sumero-Akkadian be even better? 12:38
sorry for being sarcastic 12:40
Geth doc: bc7a753bfd | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
whitespace
 12:41
doc: 86844daca7 | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
cleanup variant
doc: ac59ba32bf | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
remove extra .
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/101-basics
Zoffix oh
e: my $o := class :: is IO::Handle { method TWEAK { self.encoding: 'utf8' }; }.new.print: "foo"
evalable6 (exit code 1) Cannot do 'print' on a handle in binary mode
in block <unit> at /tmp/P0Lz4UYhjN line 1
Zoffix e: my $o := class :: is IO::Handle { method TWEAK { self.encoding: 'utf-8' }; }.new.print: "foo"
evalable6 (exit code 1) write bytes requires an object with REPR MVMOSHandle (got Scalar with REPR P6opaque)
in block <unit> at /tmp/CbA6tNjFxB line 1
[Coke] Down to example compilation failures in doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
Zoffix looks like it doesn't do translations :/
stmuk [Coke]: are the failings you see under "xt"? 12:42
err failures
[Coke] "TEST_FILES=doc/Language/101-basics.pod6 make xtest" 12:44
Geth doc: 14d659533a | (Will "Coke" Coleda)++ | doc/Type/X/Method/NotFound.pod6
cleanup variant
 12:45
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/X::Method::NotFound
[Coke] xt/examples-compilation.t (Wstat: 3840 Tests: 20 Failed: 15) 12:46
Failed tests: 1, 3, 5, 7-14, 16, 18-20
e.g: the first snippet of code is really just data and shouldn't be compiled (needs a :lang<data> or some such on the pod declarator)
Altreus I have a Types module with a subset in it, but I'm not sure how to add `is export` to it
it complains with "two terms in a row" 12:47
[Coke] also, haven't seen "=output" in pod6 before.
Altreus subset Snowflake of Str where /^ <[ 0 1 ]> ** 64 $/;
[Coke] I'm not sure subsets are exportable.
Zoffix m: package Bar { subset Foo is export of Int where * > 42 }; import Bar; say 100 ~~ Foo
camelia True
[Coke] ... but now I am! 12:48
stmuk [Coke]: =output spec'd but only really works in head
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Altreus ah it goes first 12:50
that reads funny :)
I guess 'is export' would apply to the condition
Zoffix m: package Bar { subset Foo of Int is export where * > 42 }; import Bar; say 100 ~~ Foo
camelia True
Altreus it works :D 12:53
I love how hard it is to compile a Perl6
Zoffix :(
m: package Bar { subset GLOBAL::Foo of Int where * > 42 }; say 100 ~~ Foo 12:54
camelia True
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Zoffix Found the answer to my problem: IO::Handle.TWEAK sets $!encoding to 'utf8', but doesn't set the decoder, and IO::Handle.encoding bails out if $!encoding is set to the same value as $new-encoding 12:56
m: package Bar { package Foo is export {…}; subset Foo of Int where * > 42 }; import Bar; say 100 ~~ Foo 12:58
camelia The following packages were stubbed but not defined:
Bar::Foo
Zoffix boo
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Geth doc: 0fc864a207 | (Steve Mynott)++ | doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
remove reference to link in old book which breaks pod2onepage
 13:20
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/101-basics
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stmuk waits 2mins to ^R frantically 13:23
a watched cron never runs 13:28
jkramer :( I know that feeling 13:29
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tbrowder_ .tell tyil =defn is more complicated than i thought—think i need to change grammar—yuk! 13:31
yoleaux tbrowder_: I'll pass your message to tyil.
tbrowder_ or actions 13:32
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Geth doc: 1909912657 | (Steve Mynott)++ | doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
weaken Perl 6 is better claim and warn about use of say
 13:43
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/101-basics
Geth doc: bb2e323b96 | (Steve Mynott)++ | htmlify.p6
it's now mostly alphabetical
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Geth doc/handle-6.d: b1ff1b0ae9 | (Zoffix Znet)++ | doc/Type/IO/Handle.pod6
Document IO::Handle.READ/.WRITE/.EOF

Spec[^1] blocked by R#2039 github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2039
  [^1] github.com/perl6/roast/commit/3cefe0dc59		 14:05
synopsebot R#2039 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2039 [IO][LTA] LTA IO::Handle.encoding can have a value, but no valid decoder is setup
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warriors hi 14:25
when i tried to installed perl6 on windows, i got a warning that publisher could not be verified, is this normal ... not normal, can this be fixed 14:26
timotimo i personally don't know how we sign our windows releases 14:32
masak warriors: at which stage do you get this? I'm able to start the installer on Windows without seeing such a message. 14:33
warriors you first get the welcome screen, then you click next, where it shows you the path when it will install, and you have a check box for adding perl6 to the path, if you click next on this screen, you shold get the warning 14:36
tyil tbrowder_: sounds like it's more work than you anticipated :p
yoleaux 13:31Z <tbrowder_> tyil: =defn is more complicated than i thought—think i need to change grammar—yuk!
warriors but i am not getting it anymore
it seems you only get it the first time you run the installer 14:37
araraloren you can just click run it :)
tyil tbrowder_: I looked through your module and it seems like it's got functionality to do String::Fold, and much more
warriors yea, but is it a bad sign that the pusblisher cannot be verified, is the installer compromised
:) 14:38
tyil I'll keep String::Fold since I like making modules in Perl 6, but yours seems like a better generic solution in case I ever need it
I have some other string altering stuff as well, like Text::BorderedBlock
which'll draw a box around text
warriors maybe a sha1 can be added to verify the installer was not compromised 14:42
timotimo don't we have a gpg signature step in the release guide? 14:43
jnthn timotimo: Yes, but that's for signing the source releases, I believe, while I think signing an MSI needs something Windows-specific doing 14:44
timotimo right, but we'd at least have a signature to verify the .msi hasn't been tampered with
jnthn Sure, we an do that, just noting that signing an MSI needs a different approach. 14:45
timotimo right
i expect it's based on the same signature stuff that's there for emails? i forgot the name, starts with X5?
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tbrowder_ tyil: glad to hear yr critique, thnx. ref =defn, i see it as a “definite” challenge, and will help me learn more about the grammar. 15:00
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jmerelo tbrowder_: nice pun :-) 15:01
p6noob I just tried out the ==> pipeline operator, was expecting it to work like map but obviously it doesn't. Is there a similar operator, that does instead work like map? So that a series of maps could be written in forward order as well? 15:03
timotimo you would ==> into an actual map call to get the map 15:04
because ==> can do more than just map
jnthn p6noob: Just use the method form of .map maybe?
timotimo yeah, methods also read from left to right
pmurias jmerelo: I made new issues so my complaints don't get forgotten github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2162, github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2163 15:05
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pmurias ;) 15:05
jmerelo pmurias: they will be duly addressed. Thanks!
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p6noob timotimo, jnthn: Those both work, thanks. 15:09
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Geth doc: 93af3eac56 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Sub.pod6
Eliminates the interrobang closes #2163
 15:28
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Sub
jmerelo pmurias: one tagged, the other closed. Thanks! 15:38
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pmurias Parcel now can bundle a NQP say("Hello World") (using say means we are bundling up the NQP setting) 16:03
will work on removing the hack needed to this and release something on npm soon, and the I'll move on to full rakudo 16:04
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jmerelo pmurias++ 16:08
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tbrowder_ all: i’ve put up a wiki page here describing the “phase 1” grouping and sorting procedure for the Language page. i will be working on getting the current pages grouped under the proposed groups shown in GH issue #2160, then i will work on “phase 2” which, if approved, will make the process much easier to use. 16:29
jmerelo tbrowder_++
committable6 tbrowder_, gist.github.com/c75ed3b6e9aa9fcef4...75603720c6
jmerelo I don't know what I just did.
Ah, it wasn't me but some bot answering to the name all: :-) 16:30
tbrowder_ all those bots around...maybe you and i are the only real people here!
jmerelo tbrowder_: well, I know I am, but you seem too familiar with other bots, so not so sure... 16:31
tbrowder_ i was going to say the same about you :D
jmerelo tbrowder_: :-) 16:32
tbrowder_: great you're taking care of this. Thanks!
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tbrowder_ you’re welcome, it’s my pleasure, and i hope i haven’t made us head in a wrong direction, but i think it’s not a bad start if the rendering code can use it to beautify the presentation. 16:35
jmerelo tbrowder_: it can also help with other things, like tagging rakudo versions some feature was made available. In general, I think it makes everything more flexible and cool. 16:36
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DrForr o/ 16:48
yoleaux 08:44Z <lizmat> DrForr: no I didn't.
jmerelo DrForr: Hi!
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DrForr And yet again i wish I had the ability to easily read incandescent yellow irssi highlights. 16:50
Or remembered to change the default. Hi, JJ.
Ah, pastel is easier to read and doesn't involve optical trauma. 16:51
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jmerelo DrForr: how are you doin'¿ 16:52
DrForr Right now the answer is "somewhat random" - waiting to see if the UK will let me back in, hanging out at my brother's place for the time being, and accustoming myself to a new laptop. 16:53
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jmerelo DrForr: The UK want themselves out, and now they don't want people in... Too bad. 16:54
DrForr: Good luck!
DrForr Might find out in a few minutes.
Or not. But thanks nonetheless. 16:55
And right now wanting a portable solution to loading the correct readline library version at startup. 16:56
jmerelo DrForr: better luck with the laptop. If I remember correctly, your old one was a bit the worse for wear... 16:57
DrForr This one is a fancy monstrosity. If I can find a touchscreen keyboard that I like I can use this as a Linux tablet. 16:58
i7 16GB RAM, 2TB hard drive.
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DrForr Fold it one way it's a laptop, fold it back it's a tablet. One of those. 16:59
Well, 'is native()' can take a subroutine call, so that's a good start I guess. 17:00
And it's not just me, Cro::HTTP fails in similar fashion. 17:05
jmerelo DrForr: I'm afraid I lost the context for these last lines. 17:07
DrForr No worries.
Cro::HTTP uses a bare 'ssl' library name for the SSL library, when the actual library name is libssl.so.1.0.0, so it can't find the library it's meant to link to and fails to run tests properly. 17:09
Apparently library searching semantics have changed recently, so I need to compensate. 17:10
sena_kun DrForr, I believe it's not Cro, but OpenSSL. 17:11
DrForr Cro::HTTP was all the farther back the stack trace I had went, I'm guessing it wasn't complete.
sena_kun github.com/sergot/openssl/blob/mas...ib.pm6#L12 17:12
DrForr Yeah, that'll do 'er.
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DrForr I'm not assigning blame, as my module has the same problem, I'm just relieved to know that it's not just me. 17:13
sena_kun no problem. :)
DrForr Thanks for confirming though, I appreciate the effort.
Xliff m: my %a = ( a=>1, b=>2, c=>3 ); %b = ( d=>4, e=>5, f=>6 ); (%a.append: $b).gist.say 17:14
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '%b' is not declared
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my %a = ( a=>1, b=>2, c=>3 ); 7⏏5%b = ( d=>4, e=>5, f=>6 ); (%a.append: $
Xliff m: my %a = ( a=>1, b=>2, c=>3 ); my %b = ( d=>4, e=>5, f=>6 ); (%a.append: $b).gist.say
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Variable '$b' is not declared. Did you mean '%b'?
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 %b = ( d=>4, e=>5, f=>6 ); (%a.append: 7⏏5$b).gist.say
Xliff m: my %a = ( a=>1, b=>2, c=>3 ); my %b = ( d=>4, e=>5, f=>6 ); (%a.append: %b).gist.say
camelia {a => 1, b => 2, c => 3, d => 4, e => 5, f => 6}
DrForr Apparently current readline is v7, I'm at v6 on the laptop so I'm actually a good test case for applying some thought to the problem. Good. 17:18
And found a bug in the docs. 17:20
tbrowder_ .tell AlexDaniel please look at my Phase 1 and Phase 2 pages on the docs wiki. if you think the Phase 2 approach is reasonable i can start working on it after we agree on some details.
yoleaux tbrowder_: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
tbrowder_ jmerelo: ditto ^^^ to you, please 17:21
jmerelo tbrowder_: OK, will do.
tbrowder_ any and all are welcome to edit those pages 17:22
DrForr w00t, we're on the Marvel release plan now?
tbrowder_ *encouraged to
DrForr signs in as Gwenpool.
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jmerelo tbrowder_: I'm OK with phase 1 17:23
tbrowder_: Hm. Maybe using issues would have been better for commenting. Not too clear how co comment here. 17:24
17:24 AlexDani` is now known as AlexDaniel
AlexDaniel . 17:25
yoleaux 17:20Z <tbrowder_> AlexDaniel: please look at my Phase 1 and Phase 2 pages on the docs wiki. if you think the Phase 2 approach is reasonable i can start working on it after we agree on some details.
tbrowder_ i think you just edit the page
jmerelo tbrowder_: main quirk is that 00-POD-CONTROL should use filenames, instead of titles, which is also unique.
tbrowder_ button near the top righ
jmerelo tbrowder_: yep, but then it's like overstepping on someone else thoughts, and you can't really discuss by adding and reverting changes. 17:26
Anyway
tbrowder_ the file name is unique
jmerelo tbrowder_: not too sure about phase 2. Another extension would prevent GitHub from displaying them (when that happens). I would be more for doing transformation in, well, the generation phase. 17:27
tbrowder_ i’ll make sure that’s stated
jmerelo Not sure about if it's really needed and if it really eases maintenance. You can add the group name as a tag, as in phase 1.
jmerelo goes afk 17:28
tbrowder_ why would they not show in github?
jmerelo comes back
tyil
jmerelo tbrowder_: because the extension would be .source, not .pod6. it would not be interpreted as .pod6. Besides, perl6/doc is the biggest pool of .pod6 in all of github. Changing all of a sudden all extensions would wipe out like 90% of all .pod6 files "in the wild" 17:29
tyil: hi!
tbrowder_ the ease of maintenance comes from the user manually sorting the list in the control file
tyil jmerelo: hi 17:30
tbrowder_ and not having to mod the source files internally to change order
tyil how was the trip home :>
jmerelo tbrowder_: couldn't we just add another tag, same as in phase 1? Title and filename are built in, groups can be used however you want...
tbrowder_: I see potential problems with having an external file with filenames and titles; namely, well, these can change, they have to be added manually... 17:31
tbrowder_ the source files are transformed and written to the Language directory as “*.pod6” files
jmerelo tbrowder_: while if "group" is part of the file metadata we could basically do the same without an extra layer of files and programs.
tbrowder_: would that mean we would have whatever.pod6.source _and_ whatever.pod6 in GitHub? 17:32
tbrowder_ the control file can be rebuilt, but i see that ease of changing order quickly is a giant benefit, especially until 17:33
*especially during a/tweaking phase until all are reasonably happy 17:34
yes, both files, but only .source would be under version control
jmerelo tbrowder_: but at the end of the day, what we are doing is adding :page-order to files according to the groups. Wouldn't it be easier to add :group to the files? Same information, does not need extra files, can change order... 17:35
tbrowder_: you can also have a default group if some file does not have the :group tag... 17:36
tbrowder_ if you don’t like the extension idea, then designate the source directory more clearly.
jmerelo tbrowder_: I'm not sure I follow you here. 17:37
tbrowder_ page order also comes from the order of the files under each group
jmerelo But I really have to leave now...
tbrowder_: thanks for bringing this up, will check again tomorrow...
tbrowder_ ok, let me show an example dir and file layout on the wiki page 17:38
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tbrowder_ .tell jmerelo it’s been very helpful getting your critique, and i hope i can convince you of phase 2’s utility. the wiki will be modifed before you return 17:40
yoleaux tbrowder_: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
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AlexDaniel tbrowder_: hello! Trying to backlog :) 17:44
a lot of stuff going on
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AlexDaniel tbrowder_: so I'm thinking… currently language.html page is autogenerated, right? 17:47
tbrowder_ yes
AlexDaniel tbrowder_: what if we try KISS instead, so create a .pod6 file for that page 17:48
and add some tables there manually
created a new page? Go there and add it to the right category
we can easily have a test that ensures that all pages are linked there 17:49
tbrowder_ um, sounds good, i got lost in trying to find the right hooks in htmlify, thanks for a sanity check
buggable New CPAN upload: Test-Performance-0.2.0.tar.gz by TYIL modules.perl6.org/dist/Test::Perfor...:cpan:TYIL 17:55
[Coke] I think we still want to autogen pages like that; if we use pod6 as the source instead of html, that's fine. 17:57
tbrowder_ hm, i think i’ll do as you suggest, but autogen the pod6 table since lots of links and junk will have to be in a table (and large, complex tables are easy to mess up making them by hand). i’ll try to come up with a one or two line table for a straw man.
DrForr Just pushed (nxadm's) quick fix to readline onto github - I'll push to CPAN momentarily because mi6 won't let me bypass tests.
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DrForr (there may be a CLI or .ini change that lets me do that, but I didn't see it.) 17:59
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DrForr And pushing to CPAN now. 18:02
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DrForr If I didn't forget the Perl6/ directory, that is. 18:05
tbrowder_ AlexDaniel: i looked at htmlify again, and i still believe my phase 2 is easier, at least as an iterim process until htmlify friendlier to non-chain function call folks. 18:12
*is friendlier
stmuk whatever happens with perl6/doc shouldn't break p6doc as a command line tool
(which does need more love anyway)
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AlexDaniel tbrowder_: you sure it is easier than just rendering a language.pod6 page? 18:13
tbrowder_ stmuk: my proposed phase 2 shouldn’t interfere
stmuk BTW I really wish the documentation (pod6) was in a different repo to the website generation code 18:14
buggable New CPAN upload: perl6-readline-0.1.0.tgz by JGOFF cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JG/...-0.1.0.tgz 18:15
New CPAN upload: perl6-readline-0.1.1.tgz by JGOFF cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JG/...-0.1.1.tgz
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tbrowder_ for me i think so. the linking alone will be a pain. i already have the bulk of the filter code done. 18:15
stmuk I'm currently having to ship the website generation code with star which really doesn't make any sense
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tbrowder_ stmuk: i agree with that +++! 18:16
that would solve the only real problem to me which is making sure authors use the actual pod source file, not the transformed one. 18:18
is there a github internal way to copy files from one repo dir to another. 18:20
?
i guess a subrepo would be the way to do that?
stmuk I have used (for one file) a "git log" command to create an email type git patch and then "git am" .. I may experiment further 18:21
and use a git sub-module to connect the two repos
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jmerelo stmuk: I have seen that. How did you do it? 19:12
yoleaux 17:40Z <tbrowder_> jmerelo: it’s been very helpful getting your critique, and i hope i can convince you of phase 2’s utility. the wiki will be modifed before you return
p6noob You can duplicate the git repository, and delete all the pod6 from one, and all the generation programs from the other. Then make the one a submodule of the other if you want.
that will leave a full history for each set of files intact.
jmerelo tbrowder_: it's useful no matter what. Also what stmuk says. There's a lot of stuff within the documentation that could be spun off somewhere else. There are several modules, for instance. 19:13
tbrowder_ p6noob: thnx!
jmerelo It's not so simple, though 19:14
tbrowder_ jmerelo: i vote for some kind of repo separation
AlexDaniel: ^^^ 19:15
jmerelo tbrowder_: I have this issue from some time ago github.com/perl6/doc/issues/1937
AlexDaniel runs away for stuff
jmerelo There are several modules that should be tested, spun-off or both. After all, Pod::To::OneBigPage is only used in perl6/doc and is spun off. 19:16
Then, there's miscelaneous website-related stuff, from sources to css to HTML scaffolding, as well as the Perl-based server.
Then, there's htmlify.p6. 'Nuff said. 19:17
Then, tests and stuff. Some tests test tests, so they would have to be replicated and or split along unclear lines.
Then, util/ which is... stuff. 19:18
Ah, I forgot p6doc.
tbrowder_: baseline is, "vote for some kind of repo separation", I'm all for that. 19:19
tbrowder_: but there be dragons. Probably spinning off all modules in the lib/ would be a good place to start. We can use source filters to keep history, or stmuk_ method, which is brilliant. 19:20
tbrowder_: but see above. Just spinning off a single thing was not very well received...
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jmerelo tbrowder_: come to think of it, there are too many subdirs under the main dir... Moving some stuff under html would not hurt... 19:24
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jmerelo And I just discovered this github.com/perl6/doc/blob/master/t...roups.json which I have no idea what it's about... 19:25
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tbrowder_ ref html dir: iv 19:43
i always blow that dir away when i haven’t built docs in awhile, then i have to restore it. most of it is transient, though 19:45
a pain...
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jmerelo tbrowder_: the "most" is a problem... 19:47
Anyway, finally going away from the keyboard. Tomorrow is going to be a long day, taking another trip that will land my bones in Japan on Thursday... 19:48
See you tomorrow.
lizmat jmerelo: safe travels!
jmerelo lizmat: thanks!
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El_Che japan? nice 19:56
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TimToady また行きたい、よ！ 20:02
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El_Che I discovered how to catch a TimToady 20:06
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lizmat And another Perl 6 Weekly hits the Net: p6weekly.wordpress.com/2018/07/09/...to-perl-6/ 20:17
wbn \o/
timotimo thank you lizmat
lizmat yw, timotimo 20:18
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tbrowder_ jmerelo: safe travels, and enjoy your time there. destination? 20:35
lizmat tbrowder_: Japan, afaik
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tbrowder_ where in japan? 20:58
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Zoffix lizmat++ # good weekly. Also, TIL about Hanlon's Razor :) 21:04
"Waiting for D".. ehh... I guess that will make North American teenagers chuckle? :)
tbrowder_ .ask jmerelo what is your final destination in Japan?
yoleaux tbrowder_: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
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lizmat Zoffix: perhaps :-) 21:07
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Altreus Is there an interval type, such that I can "change" the epoch for a given DateTime object? 21:23
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Altreus Basically I need seconds since 2015-01-01 21:23
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lizmat m: say DateTime.now - DateTime.new(2015) 21:25
camelia 1531169568.538545
lizmat maybe the accuracy is a bit much :-) 21:26
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Altreus gosh 21:27
it's just subtracted!
lizmat doesn't that make sense ?
Altreus oh I just found it
now I know what to look for I found infix <-> in the docs!
sometimes, this is how things go 21:28
thanks lizmat :)
lizmat m: say (DateTime.now - DateTime.new(2015)).WHAT
camelia (Duration)
Altreus How does it know whether 2015 is an epoch int or a year int? 21:29
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Zoffix Don't think it does 21:30
m: say DateTime.now - DateTime.new: :2015year
camelia 111101450.724904
Zoffix (i.e. 1-pos-arg is always epoch) 21:31
hobbs yeah, you're getting the epoch flavor when you do just one int, that's why the result is 1.5 billion or so :)
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Altreus that'll be why! 21:32
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Zoffix Go toast ready. Almost complete. Got my VM killed around WebSocket point.... which probably is OK for mid-month toast 21:45
jnthn I'm not sure whether I'm looking forward to seeing it or not :P 21:46
Zoffix :P
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Zoffix buggable: toast 21:48
buggable Zoffix, Between 2018.06-140-g68ed6f2 and 2018.06: 50 (4.53%) modules got burnt; 73 (6.61%) got unsucced; 383 (34.69%) out of 1104 modules appear unusable. See toast.perl6.party/ for details.
Zoffix .tell AlexDaniel ran toaster after rescallar merge toaster.perl6.party/ . Google killed my VM close to the end of master's run (around WebSocket), not sure if that was the re-try-of-failures run or the very first run. I forget how these things are logged. I think the Unk/No Data are the missed modules and the Fail/Unsuccs might be real burnt toast 21:50
yoleaux Zoffix: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
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Zoffix hehe, well, the Proxee is an easy fix. I just didn't put `is rw` on the method, because it worked without it and I thought it wasn't needed :P 21:53
jnthn Yeah, I worry a lot will be caught out by the fact that Proxy decont on return is now fixed 21:54
Probably I can find a way to put in bug-compat hack 21:55
Probably also possible to make it only apply apply in 6.d
s:2nd/apply// 21:56
um, the correct behavior only in 6.d
Xliff Is there anything documented on the changes coming in 6.d?
Zoffix Xliff: not yet 21:57
Xliff Wat?!
Zoffix Xliff: the majority of them are already in though, because they're not conflicting with 6.c spec
Xliff: why the shock? :)
Xliff How are devs going to be prepared for the changes?
OK, so it keeps 6.c code clean, but since the PREVIEW is in, it would help if we knew what to play with. 21:58
Zoffix Xliff: the devs are going to be prepared for the changes because the changes will be published before 6.d is released.
Xliff OK. So no imminent timeframe, then. 21:59
Zoffix Xliff: to quote the FAQ: "When is v6.d going to be released? There is no planned date, although Diwali 2018 looks to be an attractive date for a release codenamed Diwali." 22:00
m: say Date.new('2018-11-06') - Date.today
camelia 119
Zoffix Still 119 days until the "maybe" date
Xliff Zoffix++
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Zoffix briefly glancing through grep of language version conditionals, looks like the `use v6.d.PREVIEW` things are the `await` being non-blocking, `react` no longer allowing `whenever`'s from outside its dynamic scope, and a few adverbs on subnames being forbidden (`:sym<>` and `:<>` [empty key], IIRC). There's also yet-to-be written IEEE 754-2008 compliance improvement for Num / 0e0 to be -Inf/NaN/Inf, and I think 22:07
that's all the 6.d changes that are protected by a pragma
The rest of ~3000 spec commits (+about 200-500 to be committed) are non-conflicting with 6.c language 22:08
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Xliff jnthn? 22:12
jnthn: What's the best way of getting the Request body from Cro::HTTP::Client?
jnthn For what use case? The code calling the client would typically have the body already, no? 22:14
You can override get-connector in a subclass of the HTTP client and supply something that interepts the bytes 22:16
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Xliff jnthn: OK. I will work on adding the request object. 22:19
The use case? Where I can't determine why the request fails and someone asks me "How are you forming the request."
And it would be nice to dump them the entire request, as sent. 22:20
jnthn CRO_TRACE=1
Xliff Env var?
jnthn Yes
Xliff Cool. Thanks.
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Geth doc: dd96e63d96 | (Tim Smith)++ | Makefile
don't repeat yourself: use ./app-start for `make run`
 22:29
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AlexDaniel . 22:42
yoleaux 21:50Z <Zoffix> AlexDaniel: ran toaster after rescallar merge toaster.perl6.party/ . Google killed my VM close to the end of master's run (around WebSocket), not sure if that was the re-try-of-failures run or the very first run. I forget how these things are logged. I think the Unk/No Data are the missed modules and the Fail/Unsuccs might be real burnt toast
AlexDaniel huggable: toast 22:43
huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
AlexDaniel huggable: toaster
huggable AlexDaniel, nothing found
AlexDaniel holy shit that's a lot of failures
but actually maybe not that many 22:44
just that some very popular modules are broken
like XML
I'll check it tomorrow, I think 22:45
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AlexDaniel Zoffix++ 22:56
wbn oh, why does the toasting VM get killed?
timotimo because it's a cheap vm 22:58
they take less money, but they don't guarantee it'll keep running 22:59
so if demand goes up from "paying" customers, they'll kill your cheap vm to make performance available
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wbn nod 23:00
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Geth doc: 979f7f93bc | (Tim Smith)++ | doc/Language/101-basics.pod6
Fix Pod formatting, whitespace in Language/101-basics
 23:04
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/101-basics
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tbrowder_ softmoth: can you create a make target that will kill the app process? i get it hanging onto port 3000 and can’t rerun after a “make run” 23:33
it makes it hard to test doc changes
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