»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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Xliff Should I ever get errors like this: "MoarVM panic: Internal error: Unwound entire stack and missed handler 01:44
"
I am using NativeCall, so I am not surprised to see it, but the problem comes from Perl code where an exception is being thrown.
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Geth doc: b7847a584e | (Zoffix Znet)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | doc/Type/DateTime.pod6
Document in-timezone coerces

PoV: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/c8...b2e1a1a3e9 Propspec: github.com/perl6/roast/commit/529e...3d6f0dfe11 Closes github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2381 R#2381		 02:19
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/DateTime
synopsebot R#2381 [closed]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2381 [LTA] LTA .in-timezone can't take a Rat
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AlexDaniel heh, Seqs are awesome 02:31
there are many times when I wonder if I should try doing something lazily, only to realize that I already do
right now I'm staring at my code not even understanding why it is lazy 02:32
I guess I just don't understand how gather/take works
m: sub foo { take 42; foo }; my $x = gather foo; for @$x { .say; last if $++ > 10 } 02:35
camelia 42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
42
AlexDaniel why does that not explode?
I would've expected anything but what I meant 02:36
yeah, I definitely don't understand what `take` does 02:37
“The take operation may be defined internally using resumable control exceptions, or dynamic variables, or pigeons carrying clay tablets. The choice any particular implementation makes is specifically not part of the definition of Perl 6, and you should not rely on it in portable code.” 02:41
so basically after a `take` call the execution stops until another value is pulled, right? 02:43
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Xliff AlexDaniel: o_O -- I guess so. 03:28
m: sub foo { take 42; foo }; say foo; 03:29
camelia take without gather
in sub foo at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: sub foo { take 42; foo }; say gather foo;
camelia (42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 42 4…
Xliff Oooh.
No. It evaluates to a lazy that JUST returns 42.
AlexDaniel what do you mean? 03:30
Xliff m: sub foo { take 42; foo }; my $x := gather foo; say $x[^5];
camelia (42 42 42 42 42)
Xliff OK. See above? There is no limit on it, it's the equivalent of this:
m: say 1...Inf 03:31
camelia (...)
AlexDaniel well, there's a limit because rakudo has no tail call optimization
Xliff m: say (1...Inf)[^10]
camelia (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10)
Xliff But since you are calling it repeatedly, the sequence returns only a list of a single value.
AlexDaniel sub foo { say ‘before’; take 42; say ‘after’; foo }; my $x := gather foo; say $x[^5]; 03:32
evalable6 before
after
before
after
before
after
before
after
before
(42 42 42 42 42)
Xliff my @a = (1, 1, 1 ... 1); say @a;
AlexDaniel sub foo { say ‘before’; take 42; say ‘after’; foo }; my $x := gather foo; for $x[^5] { .say };
evalable6 [1]
before
after
before
after
before
after
before
after
before
42
42
42
42
42
AlexDaniel gah
Xliff my @a = (1, 1, 1 ... *); say @a;
evalable6 [...]
Xliff my @a = (1, 1, 1 ... *); say @a[^4];
evalable6 (1 1 1 1)
Xliff That's weird. 03:33
That's SO weird.
AlexDaniel what's weird?
Xliff So... I guessed today's last MegaMillions number. It was 9. I was sure it was 9.
Unfortunately... the other 5 I went blank on. :/
AlexDaniel m: sub foo { say ‘before’; take 42; say ‘after’; foo }; my $x = gather foo; for @$x { .say; last if ++$ ≥ 3 } 03:37
camelia before
42
after
before
42
after
before
42
AlexDaniel Xliff: so what do you mean when you say it's equivalent?
I mean sure, it's producing just 42,42,42,…
but that's not the point :) 03:38
Xliff AlexDaniel: OK. It's not equivalent. But what you are doing in foo() is creating an endless sequence containing the value 42. 03:40
AlexDaniel yes
Xliff $x then gets that lazily.
AlexDaniel yes. Isn't it fantastically weird? :)
Xliff I do not know why it does that and not go ka-bewm. 03:41
Yes. It is! I do believe I said that! ;)
AlexDaniel here's a ticket: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/2388
Xliff My guess? Somehow the gather converts the assignment to a lazy list.
And I don't know how it does that without, as you say, no concept of tail call optimization!! 03:43
/o\
At any rate, do you know what it means when rakudo spits this out?
MoarVM panic: Internal error: Unwound entire stack and missed handler
I'm getting that when an exception occurs in the code I've tapped my Supply with. 03:44
AlexDaniel Xliff: sounds like a bug
Xliff I thought that would get rethrown and give me a sensible error.
OK. However, I have no clue how I would golf this. I will try.
AlexDaniel yeah surely you shouldn't be getting internal error
Xliff: you did say earlier that you were using NativeCall, did you get rid of that code? 03:45
Xliff m: my $s = Supplier.new; $s.Supply.tap({ die ":P" }); $s.emit(1)
camelia :P
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
AlexDaniel not that it is acceptable to get that error, but it's more understandable I guess…
Xliff m: my $s = Supplier.new; $s.Supply.tap({ die ":P"; }); $s.emit(1)
camelia :P
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff Hunh?
m: my $s = Supplier.new; $s.Supply.tap({ die ":O"; }); $s.emit(1) 03:46
camelia :O
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: my $s = Supplier.new; $s.Supply.tap({ die }); $s.emit(1)
camelia Died
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff Now I'm confused.
m: my $s = Supplier.new; $s.Supply.tap({ die ':O'; }); $s.emit(1)
camelia :O
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff Oh. Crap.
':' need t be backspaced in double quotes, now? 03:47
m: my $s = Supplier.new; $s.Supply.tap({ die "∞"; }); $s.emit(1)
camelia ∞
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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holyghost About conditional compilation : it might be interesting for the EVAL command to use meta-circular Bayes or markov techniques 04:10
One would have to hack EVAL then 04:11
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holyghost e.g. using Bayes::Learn in perl6 or C 04:13
To create random runtimes 04:16
So you have to tutor EVAL within the REPL or file load 04:22
SmokeMachine m: sub foo { take 42; foo }; my $x := gather foo; say $x[99999] 04:24
camelia (timeout)
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SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: why should it break? On your examples, it was iterating only 5 times... 04:26
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SmokeMachine s/iterating/recusing/ 04:27
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: I haven't tested thousands, but even with thousands it works
just gets slower the deeper you go, which is LTA…
had to wait more than a minute for [80000]
even though [1000] finishes in 0.2s 04:28
SmokeMachine m: sub a { a }; a 04:30
camelia MoarVM panic: Memory allocation failed; could not allocate 131072 bytes
SmokeMachine Is that a LTA?
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: eh, in some sense, yes. Would be great to have tail call optimization, but that's irrelevant a bit in this discussion :) 04:33
my point is that it shouldn't be getting slower just a few thousands calls deep
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SmokeMachine Oh! I had understood you was talking that should break an error 04:34
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buggable New CPAN upload: AI-Markov-0.1.1.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...1.1.tar.gz 05:50
holyghost ^-- The start of my markov strategy kit for making prospection in games 05:52
It includes ticks, virtual time and markov chains for now
There's also a exponential random number engine
exponential distribution
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holyghost I had to rename because of the time system in the markov kit to Game::Markov. It's based for games not AI as it's adaptive systems for games 06:31
my mistake
AI::Markov will disappear in 4 days 06:32
buggable New CPAN upload: Game-Markov-0.1.1.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...1.1.tar.gz 06:40
holyghost ^-- I'm at 2800+ lines for true random number engines e.g. ripped from 3D landscapes on fractals in Objective-C/XCode 06:43
So I put in less for the Perl6 kit so that it's less complicated to use a random number generating function in Mathx::Stat evolvable populations 06:44
Basically you can generate a population of distributed variables for use at runtime and initialization time of a game's NPCs 06:46
These can be random numbers
but distributed 06:47
You then just make actions such as "moveleft a bit" with "a bit" a probablity/chance
then extrapolate 06:48
by e.g. chance * 100 pixels to move 06:49
This gives you random NPC behaviour at game runtime 06:50
I hope it's clear you can use the probability with pixels on your window for movement and use it what I said Think classes for othre parsing 06:53
Probabilities of vector conditions are the base of the popular Hidden Markov Model as a markov strategy 06:55
Where you can use a vector as 3D vector pattern or 4D with quaternions
Think probabilty * variable for your Bayes or Markov system, extend for making a game 06:58
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holyghost Think probability * variable (e.g. pixel or NPC function) from a markov strategy or Bayesian inference or some other unsupervised learning method to make random behaviour on a 2D game such as Nintendo's R-Type or Super Contra and it'll all make sens 07:15
s/sens/sense
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tyil notable: mastodon.social/web/statuses/100898961942296645 10:00
notable6 tyil, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Notable
tyil rude
note: mastodon.social/web/statuses/100898961942296645
notable6 tyil, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Notable
tyil why
weekly: mastodon.social/web/statuses/100898961942296645 10:01
notable6 tyil, Noted!
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lizmat tyil: a similar monologue can be found on Twitter 10:11
tyil but I dont use twitter actively
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lizmat twitter.com/xah_lee/status/1052155403084021760 # fyi 10:18
tyil feel free to discuss it with him on twitter if you want 10:20
lizmat doesn't do Twitter actively either :-) 10:21
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Geth ecosystem: e1a7bf4832 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ (committed using GitHub Web editor) | META.list
Remove json-path from git-based ecosystem

It's now released on CPAN.		 11:05
buggable New CPAN upload: JSON-Path-1.0.tar.gz by JNTHN cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/J/JN/...1.0.tar.gz 11:10
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ryn1x If I want to write the equivalent of a java interface in perl6... is that a role? It looks like a role with stubbed methods would be like an interface, but roles can also contain implemented methods? 13:05
jnthn Yes, a role that just has stubbed methods functions like an interface 13:06
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ryn1x And if a role has implemented methods those are inherited by anything that does that role? 13:08
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jnthn Composed into, but yes 13:09
ryn1x Ok. Just trying to wrap my head around when you would then want to use a role with implemented methods vs a parent class... 13:12
jnthn If you compose two roles with the same method, then it's a compile-time error pointing out the conflict. If you used multiple inheritance, it'd just pick one based on the MRO. 13:14
So roles are safer in that sense
Also, you can re-use a private method provided by a role, but not one inherited from a base class 13:15
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ryn1x Ok, that helps. Thanks jnthn! 13:17
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Ven` "you probably never heard of struct or record. but its in golang, racket, clojure" huh? 14:18
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Ven` that tweetstorm is :||| 14:20
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masak I've no idea about struct, but I believe "record" is what the cool kids are listening to 14:23
moritz us old songs just listened to songs 14:24
*folks
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Zoffix "It's 18 years too late"... This wouldn't be happening if Perl 6 was named as a new language when it was released 3 years ago. 14:25
.seen TimToady
yoleaux I saw TimToady 5 Oct 2018 16:34Z in #perl6: <TimToady> m: constant @fac = flat 1, [\*] 1..*; say @fac[5]
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Zoffix buggable: d 14:26
buggable Zoffix, Diwali is in 20 days, which is 2 weeks, 5 days, 9 hours, 33 minutes, and 9 seconds. Need to review -227 commits per day (-1594/week) to complete. Need 1 teaser flyers. Still have 2 TODO features costing 8 hours. Still have 0.3 policies to write. Still have ~95% of ChangeLog to do.
AlexDaniel Zoffix: where's that from? 14:27
Zoffix AlexDaniel: from colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...10-17#l247 14:28
AlexDaniel: and twitter too: colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log...10-17#l256
Though it's possible it's the same person.
AlexDaniel oh, Xah Lee 14:29
Zoffix AlexDaniel: doesn't look like TimToady wants to be involved in the alias process, so I'm gonna collect all the non-joke, non-"perl"-containing proposals into a poll and put it out on 19th (this Friday). Run it for 2 weeks, and get results back on the 2nd, to have 4 days before the release to prep any docs/announcements on the topic. 14:31
AlexDaniel Zoffix: was there any response or is it just silence?
moritz you have my axe for "Albus"
Zoffix +1 for Albus 14:32
AlexDaniel: he appeared to be very active until my post was posted. And a week before the post I said I'll have it to him in a week and asked if he was OK with following through with the marketing alias through he mentioned at a conf. His response to that was a joke that we should have .py extension or something. 14:33
timotimo it's not uncommon for larry to crack jokes
Zoffix I'm not making any more marketing materials with "Perl 6" in them. If you wanna ignore the concerns of your volunteers or call me mentally unstable, make your own stuff. 14:34
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Zoffix I'd accept a "No, we're not making any aliases", but silence is a diss. 14:34
AlexDaniel TimToady: so what's the situation? Are you working on it, or are we on our own?
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Zoffix (to clarify, it wasn't TimToady who called me mentally unstable, but someone else from the "no-alias" camp) 14:35
AlexDaniel TimToady: both are sorta ok, but it would be better to know what's going on so that no time/effort is wasted
El_Che lizmat: I have no problem answering to the twit, but I don't know most of the answers 14:36
Ven` masak: do you even structural typing? 14:37
Zoffix "We're sorry, albus.org is taken." gah 14:39
someone's squatting on it
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pmurias you can now access the DOM in 6pad :) 14:39
AlexDaniel btw I didn't get the reference when I saw Albus, I was completely indifferent to that name. It's fine though
Ven` pmurias: amazing! 14:40
pmurias perl6.github.io/6pad/#4ee170f8043e...fb55d6a187 # example of a DOM clock
El_Che Zoffix: I have trouble seeing that many people don't see the urgency of the problem. 14:41
Zoffix AlexDaniel: Damian Conway was presenting Perl 6 and organizers told him not to mention the language name until the end in fear people would leave. So he used "Albus" instead. I believe it's from Harry Potter: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albus_Dumbledore
AlexDaniel Zoffix: I dislike that lack of communication, but making a list with a poll won't hurt even if TimToady decides to rule it out? So just go ahead maybe?
Ven` pmurias: `use window:lang<JavaScript>;`? :P
I guess that's :from 14:42
Zoffix El_Che: ditto
AlexDaniel Zoffix: also, how do we technically make that poll? On github?
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AlexDaniel I'm a bit worried about troll votes and stuff 14:42
Ven` Zoffix: presenting p6 where?
Zoffix AlexDaniel: I'm gonna use surveymonkey.com
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Zoffix Ven`: not sure, moritz knows more about that event 14:42
Ven` thanks 14:43
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AlexDaniel Zoffix: so that's anonymous, right? 14:43
Zoffix AlexDaniel: I'm hoping the majority would be non-trolls.
moritz in Erlangen, Germany
Zoffix AlexDaniel: I think so. I know the non-anonymous option keeps IPs 14:44
Zoffix checks if the anon option is free or not
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AlexDaniel Zoffix: fwiw the alternative can be to create a ticket with a bunch of names in separate comments, lock the conversation, and let people 👍 👎 the names 14:45
Ven` moritz: nothing recorded etc?
AlexDaniel not saying that it is better, but it's just one of the options
Zoffix AlexDaniel: locking the conversation locks the votes too
AlexDaniel oh! Don't lock it then :) 14:46
moritz Ven`: not that I'm aware of
pmurias_ Ven`: I'm not sure the :from<JavaScript> is the right fit for window
Ven`: I want to have the use syntax for stuff that's require()'ed for sure
Ven` well... I dunno. use vars <window document>:from<JS>?
oh
Zoffix AlexDaniel: and get a billion responses of "how about blah blah". I don't see what benefit there is in requiring a github account and using something not designed for the purpose instead of using proper polling site 14:47
AlexDaniel Zoffix: the last comment can be “see [this] thread for discussion, this ticket is for voting only”, then we can wipe discussion if it happens.
pmurias_ Ven`: I think people will use frameworks rather than vanilla js anyway
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AlexDaniel Zoffix: but yeah I'm not insisting, just saying that it is possible 14:47
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Ven` brb writing some glue code to write React modules in perl6 ;) 14:48
Zoffix Yeah, anon option is free on survey monkey
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pmurias Ven`: we already have github.com/pmurias/p6-jsx 14:48
Ven` amazing :) 14:49
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Zoffix observes that "albuslang.com" has "slang" in it and Albus has slang feature in it :) 14:50
.org, .whatever
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Zoffix I guess not many people would vote for that option if they don't know the backstory for that name :) 14:50
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Zoffix AlexDaniel: I think we should ask for 3 choices from people: most favourite, second favourite, third favourite, and then core team reserves the right to pick among the top result. 'cause I'm fairly sure Rakudo will be the winner, but it's not an ideal name, not the least because rakudo.org is already used for the compiler 14:52
AlexDaniel Zoffix: I see
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Ven`
.oO( Common misconception. You see, the *compiler* is the one thing named Perl 6 )
 14:53
Zoffix actually nm; there'd be three choices anyway doh 14:54
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Zoffix
.oO( rakudolang.org )
 14:55
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AlexDaniel heh rakudolang… 14:55
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Ven`
.oO( presenting Masak v3: rakudolangbug )
 14:56
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AlexDaniel slightly disappointed by that conversation with Xah Lee :) at the time I've read a lot of stuff from him about keyboards and keyboard layouts and it was very useful. It's weird to see him arguing that a language is too late without even looking at the language 15:00
Zoffix :) 15:01
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robertle AlexDaniel: let me distract 15:01
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robertle you with this: semistable.com/files/keyb1.jpg 15:01
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AlexDaniel robertle: staggered rows, no middle column, too big thumb keys… 15:02
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AlexDaniel robertle: having a split spacebar is perhaps the only reasonable advantage of that design 15:02
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AlexDaniel robertle: a Japanese keyboard will be roughly the same, if not better. As in: screenshots.firefox.com/RYzbBfQ0KM...alicdn.com 15:04
Xliff Is there a way to shrink the number of use statements in a main program? 15:05
Especially if it is 'use'-d by another module that is already being 'use'-d in main?
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pmurias is glad he has huge hands and doesn't have to bother with better keyboards ;) 15:05
AlexDaniel Xliff: I guess you can have a module that reexports other ones, so that you'll do `use All-of-Stuff-I-Like` and it'll functionally use a bunch of other stuff 15:06
Xliff: is that what you are looking for? 15:07
Xliff How do you re-export?
I read something in the synopsis about that and it didn't work in rakudo. 15:08
"use A; use B; use C :EXPORT" <- was what I tried
AlexDaniel Xliff: I know about this: github.com/perl6/p6-sake/blob/9588...pm6#L5-L10 15:09
Xliff Ah! Thanks.
AlexDaniel so `use Sake` also gets you Sake::Task and Sake::Task::IO
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robertle AlexDaniel: I kinda agree with your points, but ther main point is that the rows are staggered 50%, making it a symmetric travel for the left and right hand fingers. that is quite rare. but really I just wanted to cheer you up since you like keyboards :) 15:11
ryn1x Are the signatures of stubbed methods in a role enforced when a class does that role? I have a role written and have the stubbed methods copies over to a class that does that role, but if I modify the signatures the syntax check is ok and running as a script gives no errors...
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pmurias AlexDaniel: converting someone that thinks Go is the pinnacle of language design to Perl 6 is hard 15:12
robertle AlexDaniel: what do you mean with "middle column", btw?
Ven` m: {.sum with .split(",")}("1,2,3")
camelia ( no output )
Ven` m: {.sum with .split:","}("1,2,3") 15:13
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Confused
at <tmp>:1
------> 3{.sum with .split:7⏏5","}("1,2,3")
expecting any of:
colon pair
AlexDaniel robertle: keys between TGB and YHN on qwerty
robertle: this is one of the best designs I've seen, although it does have some negatives too: www.kickstarter.com/projects/19175...c-keyboard 15:14
Ven` not sure what's confusing
AlexDaniel Ven`: : needs a space after it 15:15
m: {.sum with .split: ","}("1,2,3")
camelia ( no output )
robertle AlexDaniel: very interesting design, thanks!
Ven` m: say {.sum if ![==] $_ given $_.split(",")}("1,2,3") # this is kinda lame :\
camelia The iterator of this Seq is already in use/consumed by another Seq
(you might solve this by adding .cache on usages of the Seq, or
by assigning the Seq into an array)
in block at <tmp> line 1
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Ven` though I guess it's fixable with `@=...` 15:16
AlexDaniel robertle: btw the 50% staggering you mentioned above means that the skew angle is even bigger than on normal keyboards, right? 15:17
robertle bigger for one hand, less for the other
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Xliff m: {.sum with .split: ","}("1,2,3").say 15:20
camelia 6
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AlexDaniel Ven`: yeah, you can also do .split(…).cache and the like 15:20
it's one of the cases when things being lazy hurt a bit
Ven` AlexDaniel: haha this is for code-golfing though :P so @= is better for the number of bytes
buggable New CPAN upload: JSON-Path-1.1.tar.gz by JNTHN modules.perl6.org/dist/JSON::Path:cpan:JNTHN
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pmurias lizmat: re access DOM from js stackoverflow question, now that it's possible should I edit the original answer or post a new one? 15:29
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Zoffix m: say {[==] .[*] or .sum with .comb: /\d/}("1,2,3") 15:30
camelia 6
Zoffix Ven`: you can use .[*] instead of $_ + @ =
'cause positional access caches seqs
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Ven` Zoffix: I ended up using an EVAL trick someone else used (`{...}o&EVAL`)\ 15:31
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Ven` I'll keep the .[*] trick in mind though :) 15:33
Zoffix++ # even filing a LTA 15:34
Zoffix Potentially, it could be a .[] trick: R#2383
synopsebot R#2383 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2383 [consistency] .[] doesn't cache a Seq
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ryn1x Can you type the signature of a stubbed method in a role? I am trying to figure it out, but it seems only the name of the method is being enforced in the class that does the role; not the signature... 15:39
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ryn1x I'll make some sample scripts of what I am trying to do and put together a stackoverflow question later... 15:43
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Xliff Anyone ever think about how Perl6 and MoarVM in particular could convert to the mobile space? 15:45
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Ven` sometimes, and then I remember I don't want to touch anything mobile-related with a 5ft pole 15:47
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leont Android's C environment is rather terrible. 15:48
pmurias Xliff: doesn't iOS ban jits?
Xliff iOS probably does, but I was thinking more Android. 15:51
And leont's point is quite valid.
Still... at least there is a development environment for Android. And it's free.
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pmurias Xliff: all the different system APIs are an issue 15:54
Xliff pmurias: ART (Android RunTime) is JIT friendly. 15:55
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scimon_ I had this Crazy idea about compiling MoarVM to web assembly. Then I realised I had no idea where to start and ran away. 16:07
El_Che Zoffix: Yeah, very fond of the Rakudo one. By far the best I've heard (to prove your point). 16:11
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CIAvash Apparently Damian talked about Perl 6 naming and Albus in an interview. I think I've read that before mappingthejourney.com/single-post/...-language/ 16:13
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Zoffix CIAvash: thanks, looks like it was around pre-release of Perl 6. I thought it was recent. 16:27
The Albus event (2017's interview that says "a couple years back") 16:28
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El_Che he suggested rakudo :) 16:34
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CIAvash Yeah and he said "I’ve done that a couple of times since", so he probably did it recently as well 16:34
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El_Che CIAvash: great link 16:41
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SmokeMachine Zoffix: are you adding rokudo on you pool? (thats my favorite) 17:45
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ugexe why would we ban aliases with perl in them, and have a secondary vote where core developers have to choose out of the top 3 names to rule out rakudo, but not have an option to vote for no alias at all? there are so many special cases being made here that why are we even voting instead of letting the loudest voice pick? 17:57
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Zoffix SmokeMachine: yup, that one's on the list. Proposed by Damian: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/522abeb...afeebc058a 18:03
SmokeMachine :) 18:04
Zoffix ugexe: because the whole point of the alias is to move away from a "perl" name. Those proposals would make sense only with a full rename. 18:05
ugexe: there wouldn't be a secondary vote, just a small discussion among those interested in the alias. This isn't a vote for an official alias, so I don't see how votes about no alias are applicable. Unlike an official alias, there won't be changes to try to include both names in, say, docs. The unofficial alias is purely for the alias-using people to have a single choice instead of using a dozen different 18:07
names.
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Zoffix ugexe: all official channels will continue using "Perl 6" as the only name of the language 18:07
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cygx Zoffix: there's also this related comment on hn: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18175662 18:08
going by user name alone, could be legit
so TimToady might have his own proposal...
Zoffix ugexe: or I guess I should say there're no plans to intermix the two names in official channels. The volunteers may choose to provide alternate content, like producing flyers/brochure that feature the alias rather than "Perl 6" as the name. I think someone mentioned hosting a different docs website with "Perl 6" replaced by the alias; I don't know if they still plan on doing that with an unofficial alias. 18:11
ugexe: I'm talking about the unofficial alias the vote would be on, not whatever TimToady may or may not decide. 18:12
Oh, I already said that. 18:13
"to rule out rakudo" no, not rule out, but among all the proposals this one's already in-use; if there's a very close 2nd place contented, may as well pick that instead 18:20
moritz giving Perl 6 the alias "Rakudo" is like giving C the alias GCC -- totally confusing 18:23
Zoffix Counter-point: it's already in wide use :) 18:24
moritz so is GCC
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[Coke] we've also tried to push this message consistently, that (while the whole situation is confusing) rakudo is the compiler, not the lang. Going back on that sounds like a hard sell, and more confusing than a new name. 18:30
my 2¢
Zoffix moritz: But if you tell a random programmer you're writing your code in "GCC" they can surmise fairly correcly what you're using. So you get the benefit of reaching people who didn't get the message :) 18:31
moritz: [Coke] but if you're adamantly against using "rakudo" as alias, we may as well agree not to put it on the list. I'm 70% certain it'll be the top winner 18:33
moritz I fear it might 18:35
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ryn1x Tried to write up my question from earlier more concisely and with an example here: stackoverflow.com/questions/528616...-for-perl6 18:45
Zoffix ryn1x: don't know much about that, but I'm not aware of a way to enforce signatures. 18:47
SmokeMachine plz! dopnt put rakudo on the list!
Zoffix SmokeMachine: why not? 18:48
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SmokeMachine that's the compiler name... 18:48
Zoffix We even already own the domain (and I already own rakudo.party :P)
SmokeMachine: so what? Perl's compiler is called "perl"
SmokeMachine: and counter-point: it's already in wide use. 18:49
SmokeMachine thats already being picked non-perl and non-sex names... non-compiler would be great too...
Zoffix m: role Foo { multi method bar(Str) { … }; multi method bar (Int) { … } }; class Bar does Foo { method bar { } } 18:50
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Multi method 'bar' with signature :(Bar: Str $, *%_) must be implemented by Bar because it is required by a role
at <tmp>:1
Zoffix hmmm
SmokeMachine if I thought a compiler name would be a good idea, I would sugest pugs...
Zoffix ryn1x: looks like it *is* being inforced if you declare the methods as multies
ryn1x interesting... let me go try with multi 18:52
Zoffix ryn1x: also filed R#2384 18:54
synopsebot R#2384 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2384 [LTA][consistency] LTA: roles enforce method signatures only with `multi` methods
AlexDaniel Zoffix: fwiw I also strongly dislike “rakudo” as a name/alias for the language
Xliff m: .say for 1, 4, 9...2000 18:55
camelia Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from 1,4,9 (or did you really mean '..'?)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: role R { method r {...} }; class C does R { has R $.a handles <r> = class :: does R { method r { 42 } } } # is this a bug?
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Method 'r' must be implemented by C because it is required by roles: R.
at <tmp>:1
Zoffix m: say sqrt 2000
camelia 44.721359549995796
Xliff m: .say for 1, 4, * ** 3...200 #
Zoffix m: .say for 1, 4, 9...45²
ryn1x Zoffix: Is does seem to work with "multi method". I guess I need to go read about "multi" a little more. I never though to use it outside of overloading... but it also seems useful for enforcing types.
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camelia (timeout)1
4
64
262144
18014398509481984
5846006549323611672814739330865132078623730171904
199791907220223502808422222706762643567910281130558153654986045416023791284464999687699590596063486154228923591770023865308670443474450259602571264…		 18:56
Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from 1,4,9 (or did you really mean '..'?)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine I dont know if I should open an issue for that ^
Zoffix SmokeMachine: yes. Also, it might already be there.
Xliff m: .say for 1, 4, 9, ...2000
camelia 5===SORRY!5===
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3.say for 1, 4, 9, ...7⏏052000
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
Other potential difficulties:
Comma found before apparent sequence operator; pl…
18:56 AlexDaniel joined
SmokeMachine Zoffix: thanks! 18:56
Xliff Why isn't it figuring out x³?
Zoffix AlexDaniel: so among core devs, I'm the only one who likes it? :) 18:57
Xliff m: .say for 1, 4, 6...20
camelia Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from 1,4,6 (or did you really mean '..'?)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: .say for 2, 4, 6...20
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Zoffix Xliff: is x³ a geometric sequence? I that were x*n 18:58
Xliff m: .say for 1, 4, 8...200
camelia Unable to deduce arithmetic or geometric sequence from 1,4,8 (or did you really mean '..'?)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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Xliff Zoffix: So how do I do x³? 18:59
Zoffix m: .say for 2, *³ … 20
18:59 AlexDaniel joined
Zoffix dafuq 18:59
camelia (timeout)2
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2417851639229258349412352
14134776518227074636666380005943348126619871175004951664972849610340958208
282401395870821749694910884220462786335135391185157752468340193086269383036119849990587392099522999697089786549…
Xliff m: .say for 1, 4, *³...200
Zoffix I guess it needs exact endpoint to match that way 19:00
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Zoffix m: .say for 2, *³ … * < 20 19:00
AlexDaniel * > 20
Xliff m: .say for 1, 8, *³...200
Zoffix m: .say for 2, *³ … * > 20
AlexDaniel hmmm…
Xliff I thinks we broke it.
Zoffix m: .say for 2, *³ … 100³
AlexDaniel wait it's doing the first query
Zoffix Xliff: it does smartmatch. 200 ain't a cube, so it won't ever smartmatch
Xliff Ah!
camelia (timeout)1
4
64
262144
18014398509481984
5846006549323611672814739330865132078623730171904
199791907220223502808422222706762643567910281130558153654986045416023791284464999687699590596063486154228923591770023865308670443474450259602571264…		 19:01
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(timeout)1
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134217728
2417851639229258349412352
14134776518227074636666380005943348126619871175004951664972849610340958208
282401395870821749694910884220462786335135391185157752468340193086269383036119849990587392099522999697089786549…
2
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(timeout)2
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134217728
2417851639229258349412352
14134776518227074636666380005943348126619871175004951664972849610340958208
282401395870821749694910884220462786335135391185157752468340193086269383036119849990587392099522999697089786549…
AlexDaniel hah…
Xliff m: .say for 1, 8, *³...10³
Zoffix m: .say for (1, 8, *³...10³).head: 10
camelia (timeout)1
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134217728
2417851639229258349412352
14134776518227074636666380005943348126619871175004951664972849610340958208
282401395870821749694910884220462786335135391185157752468340193086269383036119849990587392099522999697089786549…
1
8
512
134217728
2417851639229258349412352
14134776518227074636666380005943348126619871175004951664972849610340958208
282401395870821749694910884220462786335135391185157752468340193086269383036119849990587392099522999697089786549828399657…
Zoffix m: .say for (8, *³...10³).head: 10
camelia 8
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134217728
2417851639229258349412352
14134776518227074636666380005943348126619871175004951664972849610340958208
2824013958708217496949108842204627863351353911851577524683401930862693830361198499905873920995229996970897865498283996578123…
Zoffix ah 19:02
right
Xliff m: .say for (1, 8, *³...10³).head: 5
camelia 1
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134217728
2417851639229258349412352
Zoffix m: .say for {$++³}...10³
camelia 0
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1000
Xliff LOL!
OK. Thanks.
AlexDaniel Zoffix: “I think someone mentioned hosting a different docs website” eh, maybe I can do that if nobody else who knows better is willing to. In some sense I already keep docs.6lang.org up… though I wish the unofficial alias was maintained along with official domains, because why not 19:03
Zoffix m: .say for map *³, ^10
camelia 0
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Xliff So simple is better. KISS
AlexDaniel Xliff: are you golfing?
if so, that's not what you do for golfing
Xliff AlexDaniel: Trying to learn, yes. 19:04
Zoffix AlexDaniel: what do you mean by maintained?
maintained along
AlexDaniel Zoffix: I mean the domain name should be owned by those who own perl6.org, the server should be the same one, etc. I think that'd be better even if the alias is unofficial 19:05
but maybe not, I dunno
m: 1…*.say×*>10
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of … in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 031…7⏏5*.say×*>10
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
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9
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Zoffix AlexDaniel: what I meant in earlier convo tho is using "Perl 6" and "$Alias" interchangeable in the docs themselves 19:06
AlexDaniel Xliff: something like that maybe, from github.com/AlexDaniel/6lang-golf-c...f-possible
Zoffix: yeah, yeah, I was just referring to something else. Nevermind :) 19:07
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Xliff AlexDaniel++ # Thanks! 19:07
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ryn1x m: role Foo { multi method bar(Str --> Str) { … } }; class Bar does Foo { multi method bar(Str $a --> Int) { return 1} } 19:09
19:09 cognominal-p6 joined
camelia ( no output ) 19:09
Zoffix gah
ryn1x m: role Foo { multi method bar(Str --> Str) { … } }; class Bar does Foo { multi method bar(Int $a --> Int) { return 1} }
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Multi method 'bar' with signature :(Bar: Str $, *%_ --> Str) must be implemented by Bar because it is required by a role
at <tmp>:1
ryn1x Zoffix: multi still does not enforce the return type ^
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Zoffix R#2385 19:10
synopsebot R#2385 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2385 [LTA] LTA role multi method stubs enforce arguments but not return value
ryn1x Thanks Zoffix! 19:12
Zoffix moritz: [Coke] AlexDaniel ugexe so that's it, we're removing "rakudo" from the list because it conflicts with pre-existing compiler name?
SmokeMachine: ^
I'm trying to junction the coredev "strongly dislike" comments vs. "why are you excluding rakudo and not going with top vote" comments. 19:13
SmokeMachine that's it on my opinion
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SmokeMachine I couldnt find an issue for that, so: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2386 19:15
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Zoffix FWIW: there's also "rokudo" as suggestion 19:33
And here's ex-pumpkin saying they're also "VERY MUCH AGAINST" rakudo: www.nntp.perl.org/group/perl.perl6...36778.html 19:34
And I meant: if we're removing "rakudo" from the list; wtf to do with "rokudo"? Also remove? 19:36
tadzik imo calling it rokudo when rakudo already exists would be a bit like calling it prel to make it different from perl 19:37
SmokeMachine rokudo isnt a name of a compiler... 19:38
tadzik I know
Zoffix tadzik: yeah
SmokeMachine I think it should be on the list... but probably with a warn warning to the reader read it right... 19:39
tadzik imagine telling people about it
Zoffix SmokeMachine: why put it on the list if you have to warn about it already?
tadzik and then try to remember how you spelled this unfamiliar word to look up the correct thing
if you have to clarify to the reader what it means, then you get perl 6 all over again 19:40
Zoffix And then we rename Rakudo Star to "r*kudo" :P
tadzik this is what we're trying to solve here, aren't we? :)
SmokeMachine Zoffix: great idea! :)
tadzik fsvo "we", I just read and nod most of the time:P
SmokeMachine I like rokudo... but I agree to remove it from the list... :( 19:41
(shouldnt I named my daughter Fernada once my name is Fernando?) 19:42
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tadzik heh, my name is Tadeusz and my father's name is Tadeusz. It's confusing as hell, and I don't think it would be any better if I was Todeusz instead :P 19:45
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tadzik ymmv of course 19:46
nige it's a pity "kudo" is already (R) registered - four letters, easy to type, versionless etc 19:49
Zoffix, is it your intention that the alias is used to invoke ~bin/perl6 19:50
? 19:51
Zoffix nige: mine would be, but it was overrulled by the pumpkin. It'll stay perl6 regardless of the official/unofficial alias status
nige the perl6 pumpkin? 19:52
Zoffix Yes. 19:53
dylanwh perl++, or "perm" ? :) 19:54
needs to be (perl++)++, and then we can get some dragon riders... 19:55
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Zoffix reads through the suggestions... 20:01
I'm imposing additional constraint the name has to be 3 or more characters long (yes, yes, I'm changing the rules as I go, sue me)
AlexDaniel BUT IS IT UNICODE CHARACTERS OR BYTES 20:02
:)
.oO( so we take butterfly emoji, then slap some prepend and extend combiners on it… )
 20:03
.oO( maybe skin tone also? Yes that makes sense… )
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tadzik heh, sense 20:03
Zoffix And I'm excluding copyright-infridged names. Like, I'm not bothering to research each one, but just reading the commentary on some suggestions saying that "Roku" is copyrighted for example
nige do you mean trademarked? 20:04
Zoffix Yeah
tadzik something went a bit wrong imo on the way from "we should have one standard for all the alphabets in the world" to "the characters in our universal alphabet should have skin colours" P:
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tadzik or colour itself for that matter 20:04
Zoffix Well, I only excluded "Roku" based on that last rule so far.
ryn1x When is this list going to be posted to vote on? 20:06
Zoffix ryn1x: I'll share a preview version in a couple of hours in this channel, just to protect myself from people saying I missed their suggestion and the poll will go up in about 24hr
nige *thinks that having the alias point to ~/bin/perl6 would be MTA* 20:07
more than awesome
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Zoffix nige: the proper term is "PDG" 20:08
huggable: PDG
huggable Zoffix, "Pretty Damn Good"; antonym: LTA "Less Than Awesome"
Zoffix :)
nige cool ;)
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nige perl pdg (tm) 20:09
^---- taken - doh - this is not easy 20:10
Zoffix (for records, the 3+ letter rule was inspired by "P++" and "+-1" and "Q6" suggestions) 20:11
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SmokeMachine is there a rule for no numbers on the name? 20:12
Zoffix Nope, I got 6lang, Lang6, and 6lerp so far 20:13
SmokeMachine where's the list?
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Zoffix I'm still compiling it from references to discussions I collected since my first blog post on the topic: temp.perl6.party/NAMING.txt 20:15
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SmokeMachine its not accessible 20:16
Zoffix works for me
SmokeMachine: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/6557c3a...7d732b8499 20:17
nige feel free to copy the table here: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/6557c3a...7d732b8499 20:18
dog
doh
nigelhamilton.com/perl-branding-proposal.html
can also help with basic registered trade mark smoke test if needed ... 20:19
Zoffix Yeah, it's one of the things on my list
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Zoffix moritz: where does "Albus" come from again? Harry Potter? 20:20
(need for parantheticals next to the name)
pmurias Zoffix: it has a strong Harry Potter conotation 20:21
nige is it Dumbledore ?
pmurias yep
Zoffix ok
tadzik nice summary on that site :)
pmurias which site?
Zoffix pmurias: nigelhamilton.com/perl-branding-proposal.html
pmurias "Fortran is Albus Dumbledore" first google result for albus programming language ;) 20:22
Zoffix lol
SmokeMachine "qdo" in portuguese means "quando" that means "when" 20:23
pmurias Albus Dumbledore is also dead
;)
tadzik noooooo.jpg 20:24
pmurias so please don't choose Albus ;) 20:25
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timotimo did he live to be 100 at least? 20:26
"what age dumbledore" says "about 150 years"
so him being dead isn't terrible for "the 100 year language"
isBEKaml "Albus Severus Potter" Why not call it Severus? 20:27
Severely usable
timotimo you do not want to associate our language with a child abuser
Zoffix I also see a bunch of calls to release Perl 5 to Perl 7 or Perl 28 and do to Perl 6 what Perl 6 did to Perl 5 with the whole 5 vs. 6 thing 20:28
If I were on Perl 5 team, that's exactly what I'd be pushing for.
And Perl 6 will be totally screwed in such a scenario. 20:29
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tadzik well, is Perl 5 totally screwed now? :) 20:30
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timotimo some perl 5 people seem to think so 20:30
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tadzik some of them also seem to think that bumping the version alone will automagically solve all their problems 20:30
pmurias Zoffix: please don 20:31
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pmurias 't create antagonism with the Perl 5 community 20:31
tadzik I've talked to someone who claimed that if they were allowed to name it perl 7 they'd suddenly somehow be able to recklessly modernize it beyond belief and make it superior to everything
Zoffix tadzik: no, because it was well established before it happened. The impact will not be the same
timotimo wait, they're suggesting to rename perl 5 to perl 7 and replace it with perl 6?
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Zoffix timotimo: no, they're suggesting a way to kill Perl 6. 20:32
Well, "they"... The couple of people on reddit, not the Perl 5 Community.
tadzik I'm not sure that's the goal
timotimo well, if they take perl 6 and just call it perl 7, then perl 6 will be dead, but we'll just work on perl 7 instead?
sorry, it was an unproductive dumb joke
tadzik timotimo: I think the idea is to rename perl 5.30 to Perl 7
because that'll somehow make things better 20:33
timotimo yeah, and "recklessly modernizing beyond belief" sounds like a perl 6
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tadzik surely it's not a classic "I'll just rewrite instead of refactor, it'll be easier" mistake... 20:33
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ryn1x Perl 6 is portrayed as a sister language to perl 5, but it the beginning... it _was_ actually intended to be it's successor right? So the name at that time made sense? 20:35
uzl While reading the p6weekly, I came across this HN comment (news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18176974). Not sure how much truth there is to it though.
Zoffix ryn1x: at the time, but not at the time of the first stable release of the language
uzl: yeah, someone mentioned that a few hours ago
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uzl Zoffix: didn't see that. 20:36
Zoffix FWIW: "P6" is another suggestion that's getting cut off by the 3+ letters rule. I also feel it doesn't fit under the "non-perl" rule.
pmurias Zoffix: where is the list of rules? 20:37
Zoffix I also argued against it in the past: www.reddit.com/r/perl/comments/6ls...o/djxa5go/ so feel free to overrule my choice. I don't wanna be told I just pick-and-choose what I like 20:38
buggable New CPAN upload: Sparrowdo-VSTS-YAML-Cordova-0.0.16.tar.gz by MELEZHIK modules.perl6.org/dist/Sparrowdo::V...n:MELEZHIK 20:40
nige just wanted to flag up that having a trade mark that doesn't lead to confusion from a legal perspective is a good thing
one of the extra protections in the artistic 2.0 licence includes how it deals with trade marks 20:41
Zoffix pmurias: the only rules are that the name must be: 3+ letters long (hard to google/undrstand that it's a name; excludes "P++", "P6", "Q6"), must not have "perl" in it (the whole point of the alias in leu of full rename is to avoid the "perl" in the name; excludes a ton of names, like "perl++"), must not be a joke name (like "perl sex" and "+-1"), must not be "rakudo" (conflict with compiler name and requested
by several core team members + ex-pumpking); must not be "rokudo" (too close to "rakudo"); must not infridge on known trademark (excludes "Roku" some sort of japaneese device).
nige it's important for Perl (R) mark that there is not confusion between Perl 5 and Perl 6
having a clear sub-brand alias is important from a legal POV too 20:42
chsanch Hi, can I suggest a proposal for the name? Soqta (Six in Qechua language) or Suxta (Six in Aymara language)
nige (worked briefly as an intellectual property barrister ) 20:43
Zoffix (there's a "Raku" suggestion tho)
chsanch: noted
tadzik heh, I think Perl Sex, or psex would be hilarious, but I'm mentally 12
Zoffix "But it's Six in Latin!!" 20:44
timotimo "Sux"ta? :)
cygx
.oO( What's so funny about 'Biggus Dickus'? )
 20:45
Zoffix "Rakuda-dō" suggestion is also getting cut by "must not be rakudo" rule
chsanch timotimo: Yah, maybe not that name ..
timotimo "shrubbery"
Zoffix timotimo: am I to log those or are you joking? :) 20:46
tadzik unrelated to existing ideas: since "Rust" worked for Rust, maybe pick some stainless metal instead? :) 20:47
timotimo that was a joke, but maybe i'll find one i'd actually seriously suggest; in that case i'll point it out for clarity's sake 20:48
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ryn1x I think there might be ways to still have perl in the name without confusing the two dfferent languages. With C it is clear to everyone that it is a different language than C++... and each of those can have their own unconflicting version #'s after the base name. Same with java and javascript. I think having a trailing # as part of the base name might be more of a problem than having perl in the name... 20:49
AlexDaniel Zoffix: these rules seem reasonable to me 20:50
Zoffix 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
OK. I finished compiling all the suggestions I've seen: gist.github.com/zoffixznet/f18842f...265e40bd15
tadzik oh gods
uzl I'm cheering for Albus, 6lang/slang or even Rakudo. Albus sounds pretty neat though.
tadzik the emojis are everywhere :o
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timotimo any feelings on "spero"? 20:50
Zoffix In ~24hr I'm going to be posting a pall with them. If I missed your suggestion address me with it so I find it.
timotimo though tbh i'm not so hot on esperanto
Zoffix 🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗🤗
tadzik spero reminds me of a polish CS player
Zoffix &
cygx Beril is missing - I believe the misspelling of Beryl was intentional... 20:51
SmokeMachine ofun
nige ^--- i like that 20:52
Zoffix cygx: added. BTW, what's the story behind it? Some chemical fact I don't know about?
AlexDaniel SmokeMachine: heh where have you been? :) 20:53
SmokeMachine :)
ryn1x I like Gloria, but it kinda sucks that there is a language named Julia...
Zoffix Oh, nm, I was confusing Beryl with Beryllium
AlexDaniel I mean, among others it's definitely not bad
Zoffix Carbon (6th element) 20:54
ryn1x Albus is cool too, I think I could get my wife to program if there was a language with a harry potter reference!
cygx I was thinking along similar lines for names myself, but Onix is kind of out due to that whole pokemon thing...
nige I had it as "beril"
SmokeMachine mugwall
Zoffix I'm out for real now. Address me (prefix your suggestions with my nick), so I know you're suggesting it for the list, rather than joking/throwing out random suggestions 20:55
Zoffix &
AlexDaniel Zoffix: I'd add ofun to give it a chance :)
tadzik :)
SmokeMachine AlexDaniel: it's added 20:56
AlexDaniel ah
tadzik I like that
SmokeMachine I liked ofun...
ryn1x I know a ton of people like 6lang, but I don't know about a name that you have to explain how to pronounce...
timotimo the "that's not serious enough" people will probably disapprove :)
AlexDaniel ryn1x: what's the wrong way to pronounce it?
ryn1x isn't it intended to be pronounced "slang" 20:57
pmurias Zoffix: name suggestion: "Intricate"
AlexDaniel ryn1x: ah, there was that idea initially, but then people didn't like it
so if we choose 6lang it'll likely be sixlang
pronounced I mead
mean*
nige ofun - runs deep - a good sign 20:58
ryn1x oh ... ok ... I guess that is ok then
SmokeMachine I think perl6 has so many iconic moments and stories... the name could be a homenage to it... like ofun... 21:02
ryn1x Zoffix: what do you think of Ada, Lovelace, Grace, or Hopper? First or last names of women promenent in CS history. Goes along with Larry's reasoning behind Camelia and trying to get more girls/women involved in computer science. 21:03
tadzik Grace sounds good 21:05
uzl Isn't there an Ada language already?
timotimo yes
Kate is already a text/code editor
zostay Ada is one of the most well known languages there is. All defense software had to be written in it at one time IIRC. 21:06
tadzik I don't think picking a language name will actually get women involved in CS, but it is a pretty good name
ryn1x oops... i knew Ada was a language... ha... but, you get where I was going...
zostay I could go for Love as the language. Then I'd write code in the Love language.
timotimo there's already Love2d 21:07
uzl ryn1x: that's fine. just wanted to confirm.
zostay ah well
timotimo if i ever build something meant as a shell replacement, i'll call it "shlang" or "shlange" 21:15
tadzik shlong 21:16
timotimo clearly that's derived from the german for snake, which is "schlange"
"lang" is also german for "long"
tadzik nodnod 21:17
isBEKaml I kinda like 6lang 21:19
as long as nobody ever says 6langsam
tadzik perhaps punnability should be a criterion 21:20
timotimo "sick slang"
tadzik :D
isBEKaml that's the first thing that came to my mind. And, mix it with german ;-)
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Xliff m: say True ~~ Enum 21:41
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared name:
Enum used at line 1. Did you mean 'Num', 'num'?
Xliff m: say True ~~ enum
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Whitespace required after keyword 'enum'
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say True ~~ enum7⏏5<EOL>
Xliff m: say True ~~ Enumeration 21:42
camelia False
Xliff m: say True ~~ Int
camelia True
Xliff m: our enum <A B C>; say A does Enumeration; 21:43
camelia Cannot unbox a type object (Any) to a str.
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: our enum <A B C>; say A ~~ Enumeration;
camelia True
Xliff m: our enum <A B C>; say Bool ~~ Enumeration;
camelia False
Xliff ?!?
timotimo m: say Bool.^mro 21:44
camelia ((Bool) (Int) (Cool) (Any) (Mu))
timotimo m: say Bool.^mro(:all)
camelia Unexpected named argument 'all' passed
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo mh 21:45
probably an artifact of Bool being so early in the bootstrapping process
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Xliff kk 21:48
(Bool, Enumeration).any will do the trick.
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isBEKaml hmm, the hailstone sequence program on examples.perl6.org is slow 21:49
Awk completed quickly by comparison :-)
examples.perl6.org/categories/best...uence.html
timotimo the awk solution is also a few times as many lines :) 21:51
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timotimo how long does the awk version take? 21:55
isBEKaml 3s 22:00
timotimo a more imperative version runs in 8.47s on my system 22:01
or 5.76 in a different version
right, that's 2018.09 vs a very recent commit 22:02
isBEKaml Mine is on the latest HEAD 22:04
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timotimo excising "return ... if" gets me down to 3.13s 22:05
isBEKaml perl6 hailstone.p6 234.92s user 0.26s system 99% cpu 3:55.20 total 22:06
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timotimo i think if we had an int, int version of %% the code would become a bit faster 22:14
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timotimo oh wow 22:15
using $u % 2 == 0 instead of %u %% 2 gets it down to .81s
doing 10x as much work takes 7.8s 22:19
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isBEKaml alright :-) 22:31
It's late here and I'll come back tomorrow
Have fun!
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buggable New CPAN upload: Game-Markov-0.1.2.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...1.2.tar.gz 22:50
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holyghost ^-- there's 5 markov strategies now, I only need to read up on Monte Carlo samples 22:51
Zoffix holyghost: that still doesn't show up on modules.perl6.org and it still has broken `provides` section (don't think that's the cause of failed indexing tho) 22:59
holyghost: also, there's a JSON syntax error (missing comma after the first line in provides section) and that might be why it's not indexing. 23:00
You can use Test::META6 module to verify your META file
eco: Test::META6
buggable Zoffix, Nothing found
Zoffix eco: Test::META
:/
buggable Zoffix, Test::META 'Test a distributions META file': modules.perl6.org/dist/Test::META:g...h.co.uk%3E 23:01
Zoffix That
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holyghost Is the source-url correct ? 23:02
23:02 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jbotz
Zoffix holyghost: it's kinda irrelevant as PAUSE generates its own meta file. But it does generate it with your syntax error in it: cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...0.1.2.meta 23:04
And yeah, that would likely prevent it indexing
holyghost: and the same issue in another module. Search for "[error]" in this file: modules.perl6.org/update.log
And in Bayes-Learn 23:05
And in Mathx-Stat
holyghost I fixed the syntax errors I'll upload later
Zoffix holyghost: fix module names in "provides" section as well. Otherwise your module won't get installed correctly
You got them all as "Game::Markov::" ... missing last part of the name 23:06
Filed %% thing as R#2387 23:08
synopsebot R#2387 [open]: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2387 [perf] Missing native candidate for `%%`
Zoffix $ perl6 -MWWW -e '"modules.perl6.org/update.log".&....contains: "[error").elems.say' 23:12
27
Looks like an easy way to complete Hacktoberfest :)
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holyghost Zoffix: I uploaded 23:21
I've put in the commas in the provides section and explicitly stated Mathx::Stat::Correlation etc 23:23
It's a stupid parser AFAIK 23:24
But it does show up webpages
We have to conquer the world and write our own :-) 23:28
one could use the libc/unix access function to load all files in provides sections etc 23:30
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buggable New CPAN upload: Bayes-Learn-0.1.5.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...1.5.tar.gz 23:31
New CPAN upload: Mathx-Stat-0.1.5.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...1.5.tar.gz
New CPAN upload: Game-Markov-0.1.3.tar.gz by HOLYGHOST cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/H/HO/...1.3.tar.gz
Xliff Is there anything written up about Perl6's macro abilities?
holyghost eco: Mathx::Stat 23:32
buggable holyghost, Nothing found 23:33
holyghost damn, maybe it shows up later 23:34
IRC bot -> modules.perl.org -> CPAN
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holyghost maybe a mirror works 23:40
buggable should also search mirrors eventually 23:41
Zoffix holyghost: yeah, I don't think the parser has been worked on past the initial "get the basics working" stage 23:47
It takes up to 1 hr to update modules.perl6.org after bot announce 23:48
holyghost: you still have a syntax error in Bayes::Learn
holyghost: use Test::META6 or at least a JSON validator: jsonlint.com/ 23:49
*Test::META
23:51 jbotz left
Zoffix holyghost: and Game-Markov has the same syntax error 23:51
holyghost: and Game-Markov has another syntax error: trailing comma in provides section
eco: App::Mi6
buggable Zoffix, App::Mi6 'minimal authoring tool for Perl6': modules.perl6.org/dist/App::Mi6:cpan:SKAJI
rbt_ I suggest "Hanadama". It's the term for the top quality pearl. There are trademarks but they're all fishery related (Oyster farming, etc.) 23:52
Zoffix holyghost: There are tools for both auto-making and checking dists. It's more productive to use them than to keep making mistakes and blaming the PAUSE parser
holyghost Could you tell me the first syntax error you mentioned ? 23:54
Zoffix rbt_: a quick search leads me to: "Wikipedia Moderators take down Hanadama Page - Not an official grade: 'There has been an ongoing debate as to whether or not "hanadama" is an actual grade used to identify pearls. The answer is no. "Hanadama" is simply a marketing and promotional strategy used by a ring of websites to make you think these are the best pearls. They are not. '"
From www.pearl-education.com/archive/in...t-383.html
Xliff Is there anything written up about Perl6's macro abilities? 23:55
Zoffix eco: 007
buggable Zoffix, 007 'Small experimental language with a license to macro': modules.perl6.org/dist/007:github:github:masak
rbt_ Ahh.. that's fair.
Zoffix Xliff: that's the only thing I know of ^. masak might know more
Xliff Zoffix++
Zoffix: I thought Perl6 had its own macro capabilities. 23:56
007 won't do anything for me if I'm writing in Perl6. ;)
Zoffix Xliff: yeah, there's something in there, but it's experimental and likely buggy-broken. 007 is the work for macros that will become core Perl 6 once it's properly fleshed out 23:57
Xliff Ahh! OK. I just read the grant proposal on it. 23:59
masak++
I hope he gets it working.

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