»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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holyghost .tell Xliff there should be a working perl6 compiler on the server, then I can give you AI::Agent::Embedded and work further 00:10
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Xliff.
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holyghost .tell Xliff If you put the SDL2::Raw module on the server, I can continue on my perl6 game PaganVisions2. Maybe put X11Forwarding on in your sshd config so I can run and debug it 00:51
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Xliff.
buggable New CPAN upload: AttrX-Mooish-v0.4.13.tar.gz by VRURG modules.perl6.org/dist/AttrX::Mooish:cpan:VRURG 01:01
holyghost .tell Xliff If you install mutt I can send you a mail without going over the internet, I'd like that to keep you and me up to date 01:18
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to Xliff.
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buggable New CPAN upload: CCLog by CCWORLD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CC/...erl6/CCLog 03:51
finanalyst working with classes. The following surprised me as I thought has containers could be initialised 03:58
m: class A {has @!a=<one two three>;submethod BUILD(){ dd @!a }}; my A $x .=new;
camelia Array @!a = []
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finanalyst m: class A {has $!a='one two three';submethod BUILD(){ dd $!a }}; my A $x 03:59
camelia ( no output )
finanalyst m: class A {has $!a='one two three';submethod BUILD(){ dd $!a }}; my A $x.=new
camelia Any $!a = Any
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finanalyst good morning JJ 04:00
jmerelo finanalyst: hi
yoleaux 8 Nov 2018 18:01Z <AlexDaniel> jmerelo: Haven't decided yet (though I had many ideas). Any suggestions?
jmerelo .tell AlexDaniel bitrot again?
yoleaux jmerelo: I'll pass your message to AlexDaniel.
jmerelo finanalyst: I think $!a might not be available until the TWEAK phase 04:01
finanalyst ah. ok. thanks
lookatme_q finanalyst, you should use TWEAK
finanalyst yes I use TWEAK as well. I thought that if has containers could use contents of previously declared has containers, the contents would be available in BUILD. 04:03
lookatme_q finanalyst, refer this docs.perl6.org/language/objects#Ob...nstruction
finanalyst lookatme_q: I am carefully reading this page. It is not clear about when initialised has containers become available. 04:08
In section on attributes, in class journey, $.destination references $.origin. BUILD comes after those initialisations, so the assumption I made was that the initialised containers would be available in BUILD. I think this needs to be made explicit in docs. 04:10
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jmerelo finanalyst: Can you please raise an issue? 04:28
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buggable New CPAN upload: CCLog.git by CCWORLD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CC/.../CCLog.git 04:51
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buggable New CPAN upload: master by CCWORLD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CC/...rl6/master 05:01
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buggable New CPAN upload: 0.0.1 by CCWORLD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CC/...erl6/0.0.1 06:31
New CPAN upload: CCLog-0.0.1.tar.gz by CCWORLD cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/C/CC/...0.1.tar.gz 06:41
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finanalyst jj: are you still on line? 07:52
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Xliff . 09:21
yoleaux 00:10Z <holyghost> Xliff: there should be a working perl6 compiler on the server, then I can give you AI::Agent::Embedded and work further
00:51Z <holyghost> Xliff: If you put the SDL2::Raw module on the server, I can continue on my perl6 game PaganVisions2. Maybe put X11Forwarding on in your sshd config so I can run and debug it
01:18Z <holyghost> Xliff: If you install mutt I can send you a mail without going over the internet, I'd like that to keep you and me up to date
buggable New CPAN upload: CCLog-0.0.2.tar.gz by CCWORLD modules.perl6.org/dist/CCLog:cpan:CCWORLD
New CPAN upload: CCLog-0.0.3.tar.gz by CCWORLD modules.perl6.org/dist/CCLog:cpan:CCWORLD
New CPAN upload: CCLog-0.0.4.tar.gz by CCWORLD modules.perl6.org/dist/CCLog:cpan:CCWORLD
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El_Che morning 10:26
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scimon Ciao 10:54
El_Che ciao bello 10:55
timotimo hola
El_Che hola, gringo
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lizmat weekly: narkhov.pro/raku-versus-perl6.html 11:38
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
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buggable New CPAN upload: Range-SetOps-0.0.2.tar.gz by SCIMON modules.perl6.org/dist/Range::SetOps:cpan:SCIMON 13:11
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poohman m: say "Hello" 14:54
camelia Hello
poohman Is there a method to check whether a hash has already been initialised?? 14:55
tobs` I have an object that generates a very large string that I expect callers to want to deal with line by line. I could gather-take these lines, but I wonder if there is another way to return a string stream of sorts, which the caller can either take as a string or calls .lines on to get the lines as they arrive. 14:56
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tobs` m: my %h; say so %h; %h<in> = 42; say so %h; %h<in>:delete; say so %h 14:58
camelia False
True
False
lizmat m: my %h; say "initialized" if %h
camelia ( no output )
tobs` poohman: you can check whether the hash is empty or not, if that's enough for you 14:59
but of course, my %h can become empty again after it was once initialized, as seen above. 15:00
poohman I want to know if the value of a hash with a key which will be generated at runtime has been initialised
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poohman It was strange - I did not get any error/warning for a single dimensional hash - but I got a message for a 2 dimensional hash - it continued to run though 15:02
tobs: what is this "so" you have used?? 15:03
tobs` Then it sounds like you want the :exists adverb
poohman: `so` coerces to Bool
this checks if the hash is empty or not
but to check if there is a value associated to a key, you use
poohman ok 15:04
tobs` m: my %h; say %h<my-key>:exists
camelia False
lizmat docs.perl6.org/routine/so # poohman
poohman lizmat : Thanks
exists should work I think - will try it 15:06
thanks
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nwellnhof p6: say [Z] <a b>,<1 2>,<X Y> 15:07
camelia ((a 1 X) (b 2 Y))
nwellnhof p6: say [Z] <a b>,<1 2>
camelia ((a 1) (b 2))
nwellnhof p6: say [Z] <a b>, 15:08
camelia ((a b))
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nwellnhof I'd expect the last example to print ((a) (b)). 15:08
AlexDaniel` Oh yea, that thing again 15:09
there is a ticket somewhere
poohman m: my %h; say %h<my-key>:exists
camelia False
poohman m: my %h; say %h{my-key}:exists 15:10
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
my-key used at line 1
nwellnhof Probably this: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2016 15:11
lizmat m: my %h; say %h<my-key>:exists # poohman
camelia False
timotimo m: say <a b>.roundrobin.perl
camelia No such method 'roundrobin' for invocant of type 'List'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
timotimo m: say roundrobin(<a b>).perl
camelia (("a", "b"),).Seq
timotimo oh, that not either
nwellnhof Or this: github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/2025
poohman what is the difference between %h<my-key> and %h{my-key}???
timotimo %h<my-key> is the same as %h{'my-key'} 15:12
in other words it auto-quotes for you
and if you have spaces in there, it splits into multiple
i.e., %h<foo bar> is the same as %h{'foo', 'bar'}
poohman and is %h{'foo', 'bar'} the same as %h{'foo'}{ 'bar'} 15:13
timotimo no, that would be %h{'foo'; 'bar'} iirc
%h<foo bar> is the same as %h{'foo'}, %h{'bar'} 15:14
poohman ok
thanks
lizmat %h<foo><bar> would be the same as %h{'foo'}{'bar}
timotimo and of course you can mix {} and <> in one series 15:15
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lizmat it appears perl6.party is offline ? 15:35
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lizmat or at least misconfigured ? 15:36
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lizmat ah, the certificate expired yesterday... 15:37
Ulti I know this is a slightly triggering topic... but wtf is this raku.party 15:38
lizmat the domain was registered over a year ago, so ... probably nothing to do with "us" 15:44
timotimo yeah, and the steam group is also as old 15:45
it's quite A Thing, though, that's for sure
github.com/GoogleChromeLabs/jsbi - pmurias did you already see this? probably. JSBI is a pure-JavaScript implementation of the official ECMAScript BigInt proposal. 15:48
El_Che Who's that "Eliza Matthis" that registered the domain?
lizmat not me
timotimo is this real
pmurias timotimo: nope, I haven't seen it
El_Che lizmat: jk 15:49
lizmat El_Che: nf
timotimo El_Che: you really got me
El_Che a little funny, then :)
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El_Che the mac ecosystem is weird. A colleague wante a mac forver, got one, but it was ordered before the announcement of the new model 15:52
no he has a 4y old new laptop
pmurias timotimo: seems like that should allow running on Firefox before it implement BigInt fairly easily 15:54
timotimo that sounds good
let's ship it :) 15:55
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pmurias timotimo: I have to at least fix nqp::serializetobuf first as nqp-js got bitrotted 16:15
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El_Che woolfy: I'll make the change when I arrive home 16:59
woolfy: I was pleasantly surprised you generally agree with what I wrote 17:00
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woolfy Claudio Ramirez: we disagree on the use of the alias. We agree on most other things. As always... 17:16
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El_Che woolfy: I was stating the alias strategy, not defending it on that post (as I have on the channel) 17:25
timotimo wakelift.de/p/9c1c2260-aba5-40f4-a...3bebf9bb6/ - looking for proofreaders and criticism :)
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woolfy Claudio Ramirez: I stand corrected 18:31
mst is probably going to start referring to 'raku perl' 18:43
this may turn out to maximally annoy everybody 18:45
but that's never stopped me before
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El_Che mst: It kinds of defeats the purpose of the alias 18:52
AlexDaniel I was giving a presentation yesterday and coulnd't use “Raku” because IMO not enough resources show up currently…
mst El_Che: unless you believe in two bright perl futures like I do
AlexDaniel one guy made a weird face as soon as he heard “Perl” :)
El_Che mst: that's the idea of the alias. 18:54
mst: "raku perl" and perl (meaning 5) is still confusing as hell
mst yes. we'll have to fix that :)
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AlexDaniel mst: good luck 18:54
El_Che mst: pbs.twimg.com/media/C_K50hmXcAE0EqT.jpg 18:55
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pmurias mst: any plans/hopes how the bright Perl 5 future will look? 19:33
mst pmurias: yes. but I hope you'll forgive me if going into more detail about that strikes me as liable to me a llama lure at the moment 19:35
ask me in january if we've all managed to keep from each others throats til then ;)
pmurias what's a llama lure? 19:37
pmurias got it 19:38
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mst after the past week, 'starting an in depth discussion of a related contentious issue' is not something I'm going to volunteer for :D 19:39
El_Che we're so fuck when mst becomes the voice of reason 19:40
ed
nwellnhof p6: .say for { $^a Z 1,2 }(<a b>), { @^a Z 1,2 }(<a b>), { $_ Z 1,2 }(<a b>) 19:41
camelia (((a b) 1))
((a 1) (b 2))
((a 1) (b 2))
nwellnhof Can anyone explain why $_ behaves like @^a and unlike $^a?
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nwellnhof Is the behavior of $^a even correct? 19:46
pmurias mst: so there is a strong hint whole Pumpkin/Raptor thing coming back? ;) 19:50
mst refers you once again to his january comment :P 19:53
SmokeMachine m: sub a {$^a}; sub b {@^a}; sub c {}; dd (&a, &b, &c)>>.signature
camelia (:($a), :(@a), :())
SmokeMachine nwellnhof: ^^
m: my &a = {$^a}; my &b = {@^a}; my &c = {;}; dd (&a, &b, &c)>>.signature # nwellnhof 19:56
camelia (:($a), :(@a), :(;; $_? is raw))
El_Che I suspect mst wants to make use of the post Brexit chaos to push his agenda 19:57
SmokeMachine m: .say for { $^a Z 1,2 }(<a b>), { @^a Z 1,2 }(<a b>), { $_ Z 1,2 }(<a b>), -> $a is raw { $a Z 1,2}(<a b>) # nwellnhof
camelia (((a b) 1))
((a 1) (b 2))
((a 1) (b 2))
((a 1) (b 2))
SmokeMachine nwellnhof: the difference is the `is raw` 19:58
nwellnhof: docs.perl6.org/type/Parameter#method_raw 19:59
nwellnhof SmokeMachine: Thanks for the explanation! 20:00
SmokeMachine m: .say for { $^a Z 1,2 }(<a b>), { @^a Z 1,2 }(<a b>), { $_ Z 1,2 }(<a b>), -> $a is raw { $a Z 1,2}(<a b>), -> \a { a Z 1,2}(<a b>)
camelia (((a b) 1))
((a 1) (b 2))
((a 1) (b 2))
((a 1) (b 2))
((a 1) (b 2))
pmurias El_Che: isn't january pre-Brexit? 20:04
El_Che pmurias: it is, but it's just after the food riots 20:05
:)
nwellnhof Somewhat releated question... 20:06
El_Che more seriously, is good that mst waits until the dust settles for his plans, whatever they may be 20:07
nwellnhof say { * + $_ }(2)(3)
evalable6 5
nwellnhof say { * + $^a }(2)(3)
p6: say { * + $^a }(2)(3)
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Malformed double closure; WhateverCode is already a closure without curlies, so either remove the curlies or use valid parameter syntax instead of *
at <tmp>:1
------> 3say { * + $^a }7⏏5(2)(3)…
nwellnhof p6: say { ; * + $^a }(2)(3)
camelia 5
nwellnhof Why the "double closure" error? 20:08
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Juerd nwellnhof: Because it's expected to be more likely to be in error than intended 20:10
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nwellnhof Juerd: Then shouldn't it be a warning? 20:11
And why does it work with $_ but not with $^a? 20:12
Juerd Those are good questions! 20:13
I don't know
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SmokeMachine nwellnhof: its creating 2 closures, one inside the other... 20:22
nwellnhof SmokeMachine: I know, but that's intended. It can be useful for code golf.
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nwellnhof It's a "curried" function. 20:23
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SmokeMachine m: multi postcircumfix:<(( ))>(&routine, |pars) { &routine ~~ pars ?? routine |pars !! &routine.assuming: |pars }; my &incr = &[+](( 1 )); say incr 41 # curring operator... :) 20:31
camelia 42
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SmokeMachine m: multi postcircumfix:<(( ))>(&routine, |pars) { &routine ~~ pars ?? routine |pars !! &routine.assuming: |pars }; sub bla($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; bla((1))((2))((3)) 20:34
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Calling bla(Int) will never work with declared signature ($a, $b, $c)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 }; sub bla($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; 7⏏5bla((1))((2))((3))
SmokeMachine m: multi postcircumfix:<(( ))>(&routine, |pars) { &routine ~~ pars ?? routine |pars !! &routine.assuming: |pars }; sub bla($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; say &bla((1))((2))((3)) 20:35
camelia &__PRIMED_ANON 20:36
SmokeMachine m: multi postcircumfix:<(( ))>(&routine, |pars) { &routine ~~ pars ?? routine |pars !! &routine.assuming: |pars }; sub bla($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; say &bla((1))((2))(3) 20:37
camelia 1 2 3
nwellnhof m: multi postcircumfix:<(( ))>(&routine, |pars) { &routine.arity <= +pars ?? routine |pars !! &routine.assuming: |pars }; sub bla($a, $b, $c) { "$a $b $c" }; say &bla((1))((2))((3)) 20:50
camelia 1 2 3
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delon Hello all 20:53
Any thoughts on this: news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18417829 20:54
?
El_Che it's a good book? 20:55
delon Sure, I agree 20:56
nwellnhof delon: You should add (1999) to the HN title.
delon +El_che I was thinking more of the title "Diligence, Patience, and Humility"
+nwellnhof will do 20:57
I don't know maybe I'm corny, but it came to mind with some of the recent drama 20:58
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delon (maybe it'd be more humble of me to say something like *goings on* than *drama*) 20:59
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timotimo drama has, to me, an implied "unnecessary" in front of it 21:00
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El_Che timotimo: some times it can be cathartic 21:02
delon +timotimo That makes sense, (full disclosure, I'm coming from this mostly as an outsider, but as a long time fan)
+timotimo There's been so much progress lately, it's been a tough ride, I'm sure 21:03
I just thought maybe the essay would be helpful, I remember being WOW'd by it back in the day 21:04
timotimo oh, i didn't click that link yet, so i'm missing what this is actually about
El_Che timotimo: and old text of TimToady
timotimo that person has put out an abundance of good sentences over the years 21:05
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timotimo wakelift.de/2018/11/09/where-did-i...-at-key-s/ - i published the latest work report for the moarvm profiler frontend 21:23
Xliff m: say (1, 3) += (4, 5) 21:29
camelia Cannot modify an immutable Int (1)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: say (1, 3) >>+<< (4, 5)
camelia (5 8)
Xliff m: say 2 »*« (1, 3) 21:32
camelia Lists on either side of non-dwimmy hyperop of infix:<*> are not of the same length while recursing
left: 1 elements, right: 2 elements
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: say (2, 3) »*« (1, 3)
camelia (2 9)
Xliff m: (4, 4) »-« (2, 2) »*« 2 xx 2 21:33
camelia Lists on either side of non-dwimmy hyperop of infix:<*> are not of the same length while recursing
left: 2 elements, right: 1 elements
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: (4, 4) »-« ((2, 2) »*« 2 xx 2)
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of »-« in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(4, 4) 7⏏5»-« ((2, 2) »*« 2 xx 2)
Lists on either side of non-dwimmy hyperop of infix:<*> are not of the same length while recursing
left:…
Xliff m: (4, 4) »-« ((2, 2) »*« (2, 2)
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in parenthesized expression; couldn't find final ')' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(4, 4) »-« ((2, 2) »*« (2, 2)7⏏5<EOL>
expect…
Xliff m: (4, 4) »-« (2, 2) »*« (2, 2) 21:34
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of »-« in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(4, 4) 7⏏5»-« (2, 2) »*« (2, 2)
Xliff m: (4, 4) »-« ((2, 2) »*« (2, 2))
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of »-« in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(4, 4) 7⏏5»-« ((2, 2) »*« (2, 2))
Xliff m: (4, 4) »-« (2, 2)
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of »-« in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(4, 4) 7⏏5»-« (2, 2)
Xliff m: (4, 4) »+« (2, 2)
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless use of »+« in sink context
at <tmp>:1
------> 3(4, 4) 7⏏5»+« (2, 2)
Xliff m: say (4, 4) »-« (2, 2) »*« (2, 2)
camelia (0 0)
Xliff m: say (4, 4) »-« (2, 2) »*« (2 xx 2)
camelia (0 0)
Xliff m: say (4, 4) »-« (2, 2) »*« (2 xx 3)
camelia Lists on either side of non-dwimmy hyperop of infix:<*> are not of the same length while recursing
left: 2 elements, right: 3 elements
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
Xliff m: say (4, 4) »-« (2, 3) »*« (2 xx 2)
camelia (0 -2)
Xliff Oh the fun I am going to have. 21:35
Is there a shorter way to say this: 21:43
m: say 3 +| [+|](4, 8, 16)
camelia 31
Geth doc/coke/cro: 5 commits pushed by Coke++
timotimo Xliff: you mean like [+|](3, |(4, 8, 16))? 21:44
Xliff Er... Yeah. That.
;)
timotimo i wanted to suggest using the ... operator to intuit the sequence 4,8,16 but it's shorter to just write it out 21:45
AlexDaniel for inspiration on doing awesome talks: www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qSTcxt2t74 21:59
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timotimo i saw that! 21:59
he is the world's greatest for sure 22:00
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timotimo i'm rubbish at the keytar, though 22:00
having never touched one, and all that
AlexDaniel and it even ended with a song, yeah… I want a song about perl 6 :)
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timotimo also can't afford an assistant who looks surprisingly much like me, even if that assistant is severely underpaid 22:01
sena_kun [Coke]++ on trying out Cro. Left some comments. :)
timotimo [Croke]?
sena_kun :>
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Geth doc: 0ab2997c21 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Language/objects.pod6
Adds explanation suggested

Closes #2458		 22:04
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/objects
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[Coke] sena_kun++ 22:26
sena_kun [Coke], please ping me anytime(well, if I'm present) at #cro or here if questions || for suggestions. I'll also try to keep an eye on the branch. 22:31
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lizmat weekly: liztormato.wordpress.com/2018/11/0...aku-again/ 22:43
notable6 lizmat, Noted!
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lichtkind oh liz is a tomato 22:47
timotimo i think she's actually a tormato 22:48
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jdv79 i could eat a tomato now 22:56
woolfy lichtkind: lizmat is a fan of the band Yes, and one of her favorite albums is their album Tormato: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tormato 22:57
lichtkind woolfy++ thank you 23:00
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lichtkind i currently listening berlin mass from arvo pärth 23:00
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El_Che for a small project with a small ecosystem and 1 implementation (rakudo) I have always found the narrativen of distributions (in plural) weird and borderline ubris 23:05
I fail to see how it can help anyone 23:06
2c and stuff
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lichtkind El_Che, i guess htey dream big but your right what ket rakudo over water was pragmatism (unlike parrot) 23:07
El_Che indeed
sleep tight! 23:08
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El_Che maybe it's domething from those days 23:08
good point 23:09
El_Che zzz
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lichtkind good night 23:27
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