»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
00:00 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__ 00:02 ryn1x left, Sgeo_ left 00:11 w_richard_w joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v w_richard_w
vrurg Funny, 'if' switches &?BLOCK and &?ROUTINE 00:16
m: sub f { if True { say "BLOCK:", &?BLOCK.name, " is ", &?BLOCK.WHAT; say "ROUTINE:", &?ROUTINE.name, " is ", &?ROUTINE.WHAT; } }; f;
camelia BLOCK:f is (Sub)
ROUTINE:<unit> is (Block)
00:24 kurahaupo_ joined 00:25 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v kurahaupo_ 00:28 kurahaupo left 00:42 Ven`` joined 00:43 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Ven`` 00:45 doufu300 joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v doufu300 00:47 doufu300 left 00:50 uzl joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v uzl
uzl .tell jjmerelo I read you're writing a P6 book, JJ! Will it be a "bible" reference like "Programming Perl" or something less extensive? 00:53
yoleaux uzl: I'll pass your message to jjmerelo.
01:08 uzl left 01:10 w_richard_w left
holyghost .tell jmerelo Good luck with your Perl6 book ! 01:19
yoleaux holyghost: I'll pass your message to jmerelo.
01:22 w_richard_w joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v w_richard_w 01:26 Sgeo__ left 01:27 Sgeo__ joined 01:28 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__
SmokeMachine is $?CLASS a type?! 01:29
01:37 Sgeo_ joined 01:38 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_ 01:41 Sgeo__ left
b2gills $?CLASS is an alias to the surrounding class 01:47
m: class Foo { method bar (){ say $?CLASS.^methods }}; Foo.bar()
camelia (bar)
01:48 Manifest0 left, Manifest0 joined 01:49 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0
SmokeMachine m: say role :: { has $.bla }.^attributes.head.package 02:18
camelia No such method 'gist' for invocant of type '$?CLASS'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: say role R { has $.bla }; class :: does R {}.^attributes.head.package
camelia (R)
SmokeMachine how is it changed?
m: role R { has $.bla }; say class :: does R {}.^attributes.head.package 02:32
camelia (<anon|1>)
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; say class :: does R {}.^attributes.head.package.^name
camelia <anon|1>
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; say class C does R {}.^attributes.head.package.^name
camelia C
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; say class C does R {}.^attributes.head.package
camelia (C)
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; class C does R {}; my $r = R.^attributes.head.package; my $c = C^attributes.head.package; dd [:$r, :$c] 02:33
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Undeclared routine:
attributes used at line 1
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; class C does R {}; my $r = R.^attributes.head.package; my $c = C.^attributes.head.package; dd [:$r, :$c]
camelia No such method 'perl' for invocant of type '$?CLASS'
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; class C does R {}; my $r = R.^attributes.head.package; my $c = C.^attributes.head.package; dd $c 02:34
camelia C $c = C
SmokeMachine m: role R { has $.bla }; class C does R {}; my $r = R.^attributes.head.package; my $c = C.^attributes.head.package; say $r === $c
camelia Type check failed in binding to parameter '<anon>'; expected Any but got $?CLASS (?)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
02:34 Ven`` left 03:00 Xliff joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Xliff 03:19 martin__ joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v martin__ 03:23 leont left, ufobat left 03:33 reach_satori left 03:42 ryn1x joined 03:43 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v ryn1x 04:00 reach_satori joined 04:01 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v reach_satori 04:04 Sgeo__ joined 04:05 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__ 04:07 Sgeo_ left
dduncan m: token od { <ab-[xy]> } 04:12
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Unable to parse expression in metachar:sym<assert>; couldn't find final '>' (corresponding starter was at line 1)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3token od { <ab7⏏5-[xy]> }
dduncan Question, what is wrong with this?
I’m trying to declare a character class that equals the class named “ab” but minus the characters given in the [].
I recalled Perl 6 examples or docs in the past showing something similar. 04:13
m: token od { <ab> & <-[xy]> } 04:23
camelia Potential difficulties:
Useless declaration of a has-scoped method in mainline (did you mean 'my token od'?)
at <tmp>:1
------> 3token 7⏏5od { <ab> & <-[xy]> }
dduncan Is that the best way to formulate my intention? 04:24
Maybe my example was based on an older language design that is obsolete, but I had thought it was possible to more directly use set notions on character classes. 04:25
04:26 w_richard_w left, w_richard_w joined 04:27 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v w_richard_w
dduncan Question: Currently my 18K Perl 6 grammar takes the latest Rakudo Star 15 seconds to compile or syntax check; does that sound normal or might there be anything in particular about how I wrote my code that might be making this slower? 04:32
This consists of a large number of small token declarations. 04:33
This is a late-2013 iMac with a 3.2 GHz Intel Core i5, with plenty of RAM and an SSD, and running MacOS High Sierra 10.13.6. It is Rakudo Star 2018.10. 04:39
04:49 Cabanoss- joined 04:50 Cabanossi left, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Cabanoss- 04:54 MasterDuke joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v MasterDuke, MasterDuke left, MasterDuke joined, herbert.freenode.net sets mode: +v MasterDuke, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v MasterDuke, Ven`` joined
MasterDuke dduncan: i'm not surprised. parsing is still pretty slow 04:55
04:55 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Ven``
MasterDuke i'm not aware of any particular slowdown because of the number of token declarations 04:56
but adding operators does get slower for each one added, see rt.perl.org/Public/Bug/Display.html?id=128760 04:57
05:06 Ven`` left
dduncan I don’t declare any operators here so that wouldn’t affect this. 05:09
Elronnd does anyone else use vim? 05:40
when syntax highlighting is turned on in a perl6 file, it gets _really_ slow
05:41 vrurg left
Elronnd any tips? 05:51
05:52 w_richard_w left 06:09 kurahaupo_ left, kurahaupo joined 06:10 kurahaupo left, kurahaupo joined 06:11 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v kurahaupo
pony I was just thinking that right now 06:11
I wanted to ask as well
06:20 lizmat left 06:23 MasterDuke left 06:28 llfourn left 06:36 llfourn joined 06:37 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v llfourn 06:43 Manifest0 left, Manifest0 joined, llfourn left 06:44 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0 06:46 lizmat joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v lizmat 06:53 kurahaupo left, Manifest0 left 06:54 Manifest0 joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0
Elronnd in this line of code "return ord($c) if $c ne '\\';" I get an error in between the 'o' and the 'r' in ord (?) of "bogus statement. Expecting any of: whitespace" 07:16
why? Why can't I return?
07:34 abraxxa joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v abraxxa 07:41 abraxxa left 07:42 abraxxa joined, abraxxa left, abraxxa joined, abraxxa left 07:43 abraxxa joined 07:44 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v abraxxa 07:54 martin__ left 07:59 jme` left, jme` joined 08:00 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jme`
lookatme_q Elronnd, do you mean "\\" ? String in '' will not escape 08:07
08:12 ryn1x left 08:14 rindolf joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v rindolf 08:15 ryn1x joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v ryn1x 08:23 jmerelo joined 08:24 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jmerelo 08:25 reach_satori left 08:34 Manifest0 left 08:35 Manifest0 joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0 08:39 |oLa| left 08:45 ryn1x left 08:46 scimon joined 08:47 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v scimon
jmerelo squashable6: status 08:50
yoleaux 01:19Z <holyghost> jmerelo: Good luck with your Perl6 book !
squashable6 jmerelo, ⚠🍕 Next SQUASHathon in 2 days and ≈1 hour (2019-01-05 UTC-12⌁UTC+14). See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/wiki/Mont...Squash-Day
jmerelo ^^^^ Squashathon is coming!
(And I'm going to London) 08:51
08:57 cosimo joined 08:58 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v cosimo, abraxxa left 08:59 abraxxa joined 09:00 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v abraxxa 09:02 abraxxa left
Geth doc: 66ff9197f5 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Distribution/Hash.pod6
Reviews Distribution::Hash

And with this, closes #2136.		 09:05
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Distribution::Hash
09:05 abraxxa joined 09:06 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v abraxxa 09:10 |oLa| joined 09:11 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa| 09:17 zakharyas joined 09:18 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v zakharyas 09:19 Sgeo_ joined 09:20 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_, |oLa| left, reach_satori joined 09:21 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v reach_satori 09:23 Sgeo__ left
dduncan FYI, this is the 18K grammar I was speaking of earlier, my first “complete” Perl 6 grammar. github.com/muldis/Muldis_Object_No...osts/Perl6 This is complete conceptually and Rakudo parses it without error, but I still have to execute it and verify/fix that it behaves correctly, and tweak it to actually do capturing, my next task. 09:28
09:32 domidumont joined
jmerelo dduncan: great! :-) 09:33
09:33 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v domidumont
moritz I'm kinda amazed that you'd write 18K code (any code, be grammar or regular code) without testing parts of it 09:34
and by "amazed" I actually mean more like "horrified" 09:35
jmerelo moritz: well, that's been known to happen. 09:36
dduncan Well, in this case that code was originally documentation and not meant to be executable by itself, but I chose the Perl 6 grammar syntax rather than EBNF or ANTLR or whatever because I found the Perl 6 syntax to be more expressive. Then when I was actually ready to execute, the natural first step would be to take what I wrote and try to run it in Perl 6. 09:38
moritz dduncan: that makes more sense, thanks for providing more context 09:39
dduncan It also turns out there were not more than 3 kinds of syntax errors, so I did fairly well getting it well formed without running it. 09:41
Geth doc: 506ea88a9a | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Telemetry/Sampler.pod6
Those classes didn't actually exist.

Or they don't exist now. Substituted by their real names. Closes #1814.		 09:42
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Telemetry::Sampler
dduncan The first error was writing `<[\x<1A>]>` etc rather than `<[\x[1A]]>`; the second was writing `<foo> % <bar>` instead of `<foo>+ % <bar>`; the third was writing `<foo-[xy]>` rather than `<foo> & <-[xy]>`; other than a few instances of those, the grammar was already parseable. 09:45
Geth doc: AlexDaniel unassigned from Tyil Issue GitHub Pod Parsing github.com/perl6/doc/issues/167
39270a90eb | (JJ Merelo)++ | 6 files
 09:47
10:00 scimon left 10:01 scimon joined, linnucks joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v linnucks
linnucks should I learn perl 5 or perl 6 10:01
jmerelo linnucks: depends on what you are looking for. But, hey, this is a perl6 channel, so thumbs up perl 6
10:01 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v scimon
El_Che linnucks: desoite the confusing names, Perl 5 and 6 are two languages with their own strengths and weaknesses (it like asking "do I learn Ruby or Java"). In this channel, however, we can help you with your Perl 6 learning :) 10:05
10:06 Sgeo__ joined 10:07 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__ 10:09 Sgeo_ left 10:26 dduncan left 10:38 Manifest0 left, Manifest0 joined
jmerelo calls a vote on closing the "Github pod parsing" issue: github.com/perl6/doc/issues/167#is...-450831835 10:39
10:39 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0
jmerelo I will keep the vote running until Sunday at least. Please repost vote, since I'm not going to be much available until that time. 10:39
10:40 AlexDaniel left
tyil jmerelo++ 10:41
10:41 AlexDaniel joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v AlexDaniel
tyil I would like to see a way to parse perl 6 pod without touching code 10:41
it generally seems to cause troubles in all sorts of places 10:42
jmerelo tyil: well, raiph's summary on the original discussion, summarized here: github.com/perl6/Pod-To-HTML/issue...448836127, is extremely interesting. But that's orthogonal to the issue *in the documentation repository*. 10:43
tyil: it seems to be there just because, back then in October 2015, there was no better place to put this thing, and since it says "Pod", well, OK. 10:44
tyil jmerelo: I'll read through that "soon", thanks :> 10:46
jmerelo tyil: most of the original issues have been addressed, also. Pod and pod6 are now different, PRs have been merged into GitHub... HTML rendering of Pod6 now mostly works, too.
tyil yeah, I did keep track of the MRs we did for Github support on Pod6 10:47
and noticed they eventually got meregd
10:48 Sgeo_ joined 10:49 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_ 10:52 Sgeo__ left
AlexDaniel are you all freaking kidding me :) 11:06
tyil AlexDaniel: ?
AlexDaniel there is an issue, and there is an obvious solution (though somebody has to do it)
and we're all voting? For what, for closing the issue?
you don't need a vote to move the issue to another repo 11:07
let it be user-experience or whatever you want
jmerelo AlexDaniel: it's not clear to which one it should be moved. And it's got 37 comments. It's much better, as I said before, close and summarize, preferably somewhere else.
AlexDaniel sure, do it, you don't need to gather votes for that 11:08
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I couldn't risk moving it with you moving it back :-) So it's better if we reach a (rough) consensus.
AlexDaniel I'm not moving it back
I just want to make sure we have an open ticket for tracking a real issue
jmerelo AlexDaniel: the poll is already open. I can't move it *now*
AlexDaniel (an issue that can be solved, by the way, if that's still not clear enough…)
go for it
tyil theoretically, every issue can be solved 11:09
jmerelo AlexDaniel: it can be solved *in theory*. My argument is that it's been solved *already* in the original terms.
AlexDaniel yeah but for example in terms of user experience NOTHING was solved 11:10
tyil I think that's why jmerelo wants to create a new one :)
AlexDaniel but I'm all for it!
and was never against. But I reopened the issue because it was closed with the comment saying that it can't be done… 11:11
now again, I haven't followed the progress on that thing, but I'm just wondering
by any chance, can't we abuse github.com/perl6/atom-language-perl6 to do what we want?
jmerelo tyil: I want to create a new one (somewhere else) *instead* of moving it somewhere else. But I am all for closing it. 11:12
AlexDaniel jmerelo: github.com/perl6/user-experience is probably *the* somewhere else
jmerelo AlexDaniel: feel free to open an issue in any of the repos you have mentioned.
AlexDaniel and yeah I'm okay with restarting the discussion from scratch because the old one is hard to follow
jmerelo AlexDaniel: that is the reason why I wanted to close it and you opened it back. 11:13
AlexDaniel: with 37 comments, the same issues kept cropping up over and over again.
AlexDaniel jmerelo: ok, so did you open a new ticket? And if not, why?
why do you think it's OK to close an issue without opening a new one?
11:14 jast joined
jmerelo AlexDaniel: because I don't think it's an issue that can be easily solved right now, or in the near future. 11:14
11:14 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jast
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I don't want to burden whoever is in charge of user-experience (apparently no-one) or marketing (ditto) with an issue, when there are already 22 issues that have not been solved there. 11:15
timotimo .tell dduncan the muldis object notation grammar spends a whole lot of time doing "mergesubrule" and "mergesubstates" and "optimize", which are related to building the NFA used for longest token matching, i.e. the | operator and proto/multi tokens. maybe there's some optimization opportunities there.
yoleaux timotimo: I'll pass your message to dduncan.
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I also think it's OK to close an issue if it can be no longer addressed in terms of the repository it's been created (and it didn't belong to the repo to start with) 11:19
11:20 |oLa| joined 11:21 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa|, ChoHag joined 11:22 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v ChoHag 11:24 scimon left, scimon joined 11:25 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v scimon
AlexDaniel jmerelo: the number of to-be-resolved issues is irrelevant 11:31
if there's a problem, you write it down
jmerelo AlexDaniel: right. And if the problem has been solved, you close it. Those are two completely different issues. 11:33
AlexDaniel but it's not resolved. GitHub still doesn't render pod6
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I think it is, in its original terms, and in the context of the documentation repository. But since there seems to be a difference of opinion, that's why I'm calling a vote. 11:34
AlexDaniel “GitHub doesn't parse P6 pod and shows errors when viewing docs in this repo” 11:35
that's from the OP
jmerelo (for the sake of those who have arrived late to the conversation, here's what we're talking about github.com/perl6/doc/issues/167)
AlexDaniel ok it doesn't show errors now because they were renamed to .pod6…
jmerelo AlexDaniel: which does not belong in perl6/doc to start with.
AlexDaniel move it then, no problem with that 11:36
jmerelo AlexDaniel: so that was one of the things that were addressed *in terms of the repo itself*
AlexDaniel or close and reopen elsewhere
jmerelo AlexDaniel: re: moving it. I've discussed it already. a) I don't think it's an issue. b) I have already called a vote, I can't move it now c) I have no idea where it belongs. 11:37
AlexDaniel /o\
11:37 Manifest0 left
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I have already closed it, and you have reopened it. I'll close it again if the vote reaches that conclusion (or anyone else can do it, for that matter). 11:38
11:38 Manifest0 joined
AlexDaniel a) great! b) voting is not needed to move it c) user-experience is fine 11:38
11:38 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0
jmerelo AlexDaniel: then vote yes for closing and qualify your vote by assigning the issue to me and saying that you vote yes if JJ opens it in user-experience 11:39
AlexDaniel we've been through that a few times now I think, and I still see issues closed with an expectation that somebody else will dig the discussion back, go through it and file a new ticket
jmerelo (and again, I wouldn't transfer it, I would summarize the issues involved, saving whoever reads it the time to go through 37 comments, with links)
AlexDaniel OK fuck I don't know why it's so hard 11:41
AlexDaniel moves it
jmerelo AlexDaniel++ 11:42
AlexDaniel done github.com/perl6/user-experience/issues/35 11:44
took less than 4 minutes, please just do that instead next time… 11:45
jmerelo AlexDaniel: I did what I thought would the best, you did the same. At least we agree on the fact that something should be done about it :-) 11:47
El_Che you agree to agree 11:55
lizmat I don't .... disagree :-)
scimon So. Hi everyone.
lizmat scimon o/ 11:57
11:59 |oLa|1 joined, |oLa| left, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa|1
jmerelo hi! 12:05
12:13 damaxi joined 12:14 damaxi is now known as andrzejku, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v andrzejku 12:17 Manifest0 left, Manifest0 joined, linnucks left 12:18 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0 12:21 kurahaupo joined
Geth perl6-examples/master: 11 commits pushed by (Paul Cochrane)++
review: github.com/perl6/perl6-examples/co...c34dea3cbe		 12:22
12:22 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v kurahaupo 12:43 andrzejku left 13:02 leont joined, zakharyas left 13:03 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v leont 13:07 lucasb joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v lucasb
Geth perl6-examples: 6d33fcbcd8 | (Paul Cochrane)++ | Makefile
Install test-required dependencies

The `--/test` option to `zef` doesn't install the dependencies needed to run all of the tests, hence we need to use `--test`. However, in order to avoid running the tests for all of the other dependencies, we first install the base dependencies *without* tests and then install the remainder *with* tests. This way dependencies required for running the tests (such as `Test::META`) are installed and the test suite passes.		 13:15
perl6-examples: 35ecaf0008 | (Paul Cochrane)++ | t/003-categories.t
Revert "Fix sporadic categories test failure"

  ... since it didn't fix the problem; the test failures in the categories
tests are still sporadic.
13:34 jmerelo left 13:45 MasterDuke joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v MasterDuke, MasterDuke left, MasterDuke joined, herbert.freenode.net sets mode: +v MasterDuke, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v MasterDuke 13:50 Sgeo__ joined 13:51 cydf joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v cydf 13:53 Sgeo_ left 13:57 |oLa|1 left 14:06 damaxi joined 14:07 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v damaxi 14:13 zakharyas joined 14:14 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v zakharyas 14:27 vrurg joined 14:28 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v vrurg, cydf left 14:30 damaxi left 14:54 Ven`` joined 14:55 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Ven`` 14:57 Sgeo_ joined 14:58 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_ 15:01 Sgeo__ left 15:03 scimon left 15:04 scimon joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v scimon 15:08 vike1 left 15:18 vike1 joined 15:19 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v vike1 15:21 jme` left 15:32 vike1 left 15:39 Ven` joined, vike1 joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Ven` 15:40 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v vike1, scimon left, Ven` left, scimon joined 15:41 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v scimon 15:43 vrurg left 15:45 vrurg joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v vrurg 15:47 |oLa| joined 15:48 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa| 15:55 molaf joined 15:56 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v molaf 16:03 ponbiki joined 16:04 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v ponbiki 16:11 melezhik joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v melezhik 16:27 Sgeo__ joined 16:28 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__ 16:31 Sgeo_ left 16:32 Sgeo_ joined 16:33 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_ 16:35 Sgeo__ left 16:43 melezhik left 16:49 kensanata joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v kensanata, kensanata left 16:55 vrurg left 16:57 pmurias joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v pmurias, Manifest0 left 16:58 Manifest0 joined, pmurias left, pmurias joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v pmurias 16:59 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0 17:04 |oLa| left 17:10 Ven`` left 17:17 damaxi joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v damaxi
Geth perl6-examples: e487f8dae3 | (Paul Cochrane)++ | Makefile
Use --test-depends to install test-required deps

Thanks to @ugexe for the heads up!		 17:18
17:18 molaf left
Geth doc: 93e28c399a | cfa++ | xt/headings.t
Add "NQP" as an exception to the heading capitalisation test.

  (Address test failure for subtitle added in [ceedca6d7].)		 17:20
17:22 damaxi is now known as andrzejku 17:26 lucasb left 17:29 scimon left 17:32 leont left, pmurias left
[Coke] waves. 17:34
m: say $?DISTRIBUTION 17:37
camelia Nil
17:37 perigrin_ joined, perigrin_ left 17:42 melezhik joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v melezhik
Geth doc: 9a7861ad74 | Coke++ | doc/Language/variables.pod6
run test in separate file
 17:44
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/language/variables
17:49 DrForr joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v DrForr 17:50 domidumont left 17:51 domidumont joined 17:52 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v domidumont 17:54 pmurias_ joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v pmurias_ 17:56 Manifest0 left, Manifest0 joined 17:57 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Manifest0 17:59 domidumont left 18:03 brrt joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v brrt 18:06 regreg joined 18:07 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v regreg 18:10 leont joined 18:11 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v leont 18:23 sauvin left 18:26 cfa joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v cfa 18:32 Sgeo__ joined 18:33 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__ 18:35 zakharyas left, Sgeo_ left 18:37 natrys joined 18:38 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v natrys 18:42 Sgeo_ joined, pmurias_ left 18:43 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_ 18:45 Sgeo__ left 18:52 pmurias_ joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v pmurias_
masak I have an open PR in 007 right now renaming `True` and `False` to `true` and `false` 18:53
as usual, I don't mean to get anyone up in arms about changing Perl 6 :) 18:54
but I'm curious in retrospect how it came to be in Perl 6 (and in Python) that we write those literals with upper-case
because usually upper-case signals a class/role/grammar/type
but these are more like enum values
moritz they are type-like 18:57
19:01 melezhik left 19:04 Manifest0 left
cfa morning all 19:08
masak moritz: True and False are type-like? 19:35
in what sense?
masak asked the same question on #python 19:36
19:39 jme` joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jme` 19:40 zakharyas joined 19:41 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v zakharyas
masak #python tells me "it's for historical reasons", basically 19:42
avuserow masak, I assume you'll get this link from #python, but here's the Python PEP about True/False: www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0285/ 19:43
tldr from my memory is "they surveyed pypi, then picked what was most popular"
masak didn't -- thanks!
this is very interesting reading 19:44
avuserow (I may have misremembered that tldr, or gotten that from another document) 19:45
other fun fact: you can redefine True and False in Python 2 but not 3
masak oh! `True` and `False` were based on `None`, which is more understandable because it's a singleton type 19:46
funnily enough, the type of `None` is not called `None` but `NoneType`
19:51 brrt left 19:52 evenom joined 19:53 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v evenom, natrys left
masak does anyone remember exactly when whitespace stopped being allowed before postfixes in the Perl 6 spec? 19:55
I think it must've been sometime during the '00s
19:57 SqrtNegInf joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v SqrtNegInf 19:59 domidumont joined 20:00 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v domidumont
lizmat masak: True and False are enums of Bool, and enums typically are titlecased? 20:03
20:04 ChoHag left, MasterDuke left 20:07 kiwi_60 joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v kiwi_60
Geth perl6-examples: c5b9fc3e46 | (David Warring)++ | .travis.yml
CI Rakudo bump for deps
 20:10
kiwi_60 m: { .say, .put } for (any( 1, 3, 7 ) + 1), any( <h H> ) ~ 'amadryas';
camelia any(2, 4, 8)
2
4
8
any(hamadryas, Hamadryas)
hamadryas
Hamadryas
kiwi_60 m: say $*PERL.compiler 20:12
camelia rakudo (2018.12.117.g.29.d.7.f.7095)
masak lizmat: yes, that seems to be the case (although S12 seems to lower-case sometimes, too...?) 20:14
20:14 evenom left
masak lizmat: but then, _whyyyyy_ are enum values title-cased? is it to highlight their, um, singleton-y nature, even though they aren't really singletons? 20:15
I only speak for myself, but it's weird to me that enum values are title-cased. title-case is for things like types. enum values feel to me much more like instances, or lexical variables, or members, all of which are lower-cased. 20:16
lizmat well... yeah... enums are strange
masak fun fact: enums are a poor echo of disjoint union types, in languages which don't have a type system that can sustain the latter :P 20:18
but here I go, being smug again
20:22 domidumont left
El_Che masak: is 007 the 3rd-system syndrome done right? :P 20:23
masak not aiming to supersede anything, no :) 20:24
just trying to create a coherent whole, a fast-iterating experiment, and a working macro environment -- all in one package
but sometimes I do take a bit of a stance "against" Perl 6 -- for example renaming s/grep/filter/ after some consideration 20:25
and s/sub/func/
lizmat masak: why not s/sub/function/ ? 20:26
El_Che unix roots? 20:27
lazyness
I prefer func myself
lizmat well, grep -> filter has nothing to do with unix roots afaik, so why sub -> func then 20:28
if you want to be clearer, sub -> function then makes more sense to me...
looking towards the future
El_Che being coherent is a pita 20:29
(it's also true for documentation and papers) 20:30
masak lizmat: I definitely considered 'function', but it felt too dehuffmanized for such a common keyword
cfa fn, fun, func all seem common 20:31
masak lizmat: similarly, I considered 'fun', but it felt too huffmanized and too cute
El_Che "dehuffmanized" <-- you get points for that
masak Arc does 'fun' and 'mac', which -- while I respect it on some level -- I feel is a bit too cute
cfa well, it's arc
qed 20:32
masak El_Che: I consider JavaScript to be a live experiment towards that conclusion
EcmaScript 6 introduced something on the order of five different ways not to have to write `function` in your code :P
avuserow if `fun` is too cute, why not make it less cute and call it `defun`? :P
masak avuserow: I confess to not having considered that one :) 20:33
El_Che masak: make sure things are kind of coherent before it becomes popular :)
masak avuserow: but `defun` *is* cute, in how it re-uses the 'f' for both 'def' and 'fun'
El_Che: one of the nice things about having ~0 users is I can make changes like that 20:34
El_Che about "sub", to me it feels like a Perl 5 leftover
with built-in signatures, but still
masak El_Che: which is why I felt a shiver down my spine when I got a person writing actual scripts and modules in 007 o.O
El_Che masak: that's what happen when you put code out :)
[Coke] We are a perl, so that seems fine. 20:35
masak El_Che: I'm curious where Perl 5 got it from. I know "subroutine" is an established term, but it feels like a term that has been (at least somewhat) left behind
007 is a Perl too. discuss. :P
and who can claim that it isn't Perlish to look towards other traditions and drink heavily from them? 20:36
[Coke] masak: hard to argue with
masak if I could spend the rest of my programming career making it easier for people to create quick-and-dirty languages like 007, I think I'd be pretty happy 20:37
interestingly, that feels very much within Perl 6's charter
cfa well, you could argue that function is a worse term in languages that don't enforce purity
El_Che [Coke]: sub is for me something that can be a function and a method
cfa subroutine seems more in line with communiting potential side effects
er, communicating*
masak cfa: I think it's a case of "here's how the word is used in actual practice, so there" 20:38
cfa true
masak (i.e. descriptivism)
cfa function and subroutine are used pretty interchangeably in most languages
masak and function is by far the more common term nowadays
El_Che cfa: not syntax-wise, like masak states you see mostly func(tion) nowadays 20:39
masak "subroutine" feels like something they use in Star Trek when they want to belittle the Doctor hologram and tell him he isn't a real person
El_Che haha, so true
cfa ha
lizmat
.oO( Jim, I'm a program, not a subroutine! )
[Coke] I have a recollection that perl's sub came from the basic word, but I can't find anything to back that up 20:40
masak which means it's somewhat still in the general vocabulary, but unused *enough* to be stolen for Star Trek technobabble
[Coke]: ooooh that makes a lot of sense
and BASIC (as I recently learned) is mostly gussied-up FORTRAN II 20:41
...and indeed FORTRAN II has `SUBROUTINE`
:D
it also has `FUNCTION`
pmurias_ masak: I thought a tiny bit about the regex explainer, and one idea is that something that shows which prefix of a regex still matches a string could be useful 20:42
masak it'd be a good start, for sure
pmurias_: with rakudo.js it could even be built for the browser :) 20:43
20:44 |oLa| joined 20:45 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa|
pmurias_ masak: even a CLI version would be useful 20:45
masak aye
[Coke] regex101.com 20:46
[Coke] finds github.com/firasdib/Regex101/issues/848 20:47
masak now that I think back on it, QBasic has `SUB` and `FUNCTION` as well
20:50 pmurias_ left 20:54 pmurias joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v pmurias
pmurias masak: the regex prefix thing would help with in the small regex writing 20:55
masak: for larger stuff (like fully blown grammars) I think making testing individual subrules more convinient would help a lot 20:57
masak: optimally once we have a decent way of displaying module docs it would be awesome if those regex unit tests could be used as examples 21:01
masak: kind of like smart links in the old days 21:02
21:06 jme` left
masak aye 21:08
21:14 Voldenet joined, Voldenet left, Voldenet joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Voldenet 21:15 kiwi_60 left
Geth doc: 2f9ac56a46 | cfa++ | doc/Type/Signature.pod6
Provide an example of combining array and hash slurpies.
 21:18
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Signature
21:20 zakharyas left 21:22 MasterDuke joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v MasterDuke, MasterDuke left, MasterDuke joined, herbert.freenode.net sets mode: +v MasterDuke, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v MasterDuke
pmurias masak: if Perl 6 ended up with CPAN for grammar parts that would be awesome/useful 21:25
21:26 ufobat joined 21:30 pmurias left 21:32 pmurias joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v pmurias 21:37 llfourn joined, mowcat joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v llfourn, leont left 21:38 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v mowcat 21:40 |oLa| left 21:41 andrzejku left 21:43 melezhik joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v melezhik, jme` joined 21:44 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jme`, |oLa| joined 21:45 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa|
buggable New CPAN upload: BlkMeV-0.2.0.tar.gz by DONPDONP cpan.metacpan.org/authors/id/D/DO/...2.0.tar.gz 21:45
21:46 ChoHag joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v ChoHag
[Coke] tries to do a build on windows for the first time in a year 21:59
22:00 ufobat left 22:04 leont joined 22:05 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v leont
[Coke] ... saw a bunch of warnings in moarvm build and one or two linker warnings on rakudo, but wnet very smoothly. 22:06
22:12 molaf joined 22:13 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v molaf 22:16 jme` left
MasterDuke [Coke]: running a spectest on windows? 22:25
[Coke] no, wanted to be able to test docs there. 22:29
22:29 robertle left
cfa [Coke]: neat 22:29
[Coke] I can fire off a spectest if you like. (ISTR zoffix was keeping a ticket up to date with windows spec results)
gfldex jnthn++ # for a faster year 2019 :) 22:35
MasterDuke [Coke]: i think he was doing that only periodically, and since he's less active now, might be nice to get some recent data if you can 22:38
22:43 jme` joined, mowcat left 22:44 mowcat joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jme`, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v mowcat 22:54 Ven`` joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Ven`` 22:57 rindolf left 23:03 pmurias left 23:05 melezhik left 23:14 |oLa|1 joined, p6bannerbot sets mode: +v |oLa|1 23:16 |oLa| left 23:17 Sgeo__ joined 23:18 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo__ 23:20 Sgeo_ left 23:25 jeek joined 23:26 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v jeek 23:33 vrurg joined 23:34 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v vrurg 23:35 Sgeo_ joined 23:36 p6bannerbot sets mode: +v Sgeo_ 23:38 Sgeo__ left

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!