»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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lookatme_q morning 00:28
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timotimo [ptc]: the footnotes on your blog don't work :< they just scroll to the very top 00:33
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ugexe m: for (1..10000) { my $b = 100; while (--$b) { my $bottles = (($b == 1) and "bottle" or "bottles"); (join("", "$b $bottles of beer on the wall\n", "$b $bottles of beer\n", "Take one down, pass it around\n", "$b $bottles of beer on the wall\n", "\n" )); } }; # 99 bottles of beer in perl5/perl6. perl5 runs in 0.469s (heheh) and perl6 in 6.584 00:43
camelia ( no output )
ugexe print statement removed 00:44
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ugexe without the join (using 1 giant string) its perl5 0.380 and perl6 4.008 00:50
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ugexe using method join perl6 is 4.980 00:51
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MasterDuke m: say "foo"[0] # you don't even need the [] around it 00:53
camelia foo
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ugexe you do if you want blank strings for items with remainders 00:54
m: say ['foo'][1]
camelia (Any)
ugexe m: say 'foo'[1] 00:55
camelia Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
MasterDuke yep
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rje_ I just got my "fork" of Perl 2 to compile on Cygwin... It could fit in a tiny Docker image... It could be tailored for constrained environments... I think I want it to have its own "Marketing name"! ;) 02:35
Sorry, I guess I'm on the wrong channel for this. But I had to tell someone.
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lucs How can the CATCH set the map value here? (hoping to see «Caught [2 42 7]␤») 03:55
m: my @a = (2, 0, 7).map(-> $n { CATCH { default { print "Caught "; 42; } }; $n == 0 ?? die() !! $n }); say @a
camelia Caught [2 (Any) 7]
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Xliff m: sub meaning($n) { $n == 0 ?? die() !! $n }; my @a = (2, 0, 7).map(-> $n { my $a = do { CATCH { default { print "Caught "; }; }; }; $a = 42 if @!); say @a 04:12
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 print "Caught "; }; }; }; $a = 42 if @!7⏏5); say @a
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
Xliff m: sub meaning($n) { $n == 0 ?? die() !! $n }; my @a = (2, 0, 7).map(-> $n { my $a = do { CATCH { default { print "Caught "; }; }; }; $a = 42 if @! }; ); say @a
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Negation metaoperator not followed by valid infix
at <tmp>:1
------> 3 print "Caught "; }; }; }; $a = 42 if @!7⏏5 }; ); say @a
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
Xliff m: sub meaning($n) { $n == 0 ?? die() !! $n }; my @a = (2, 0, 7).map(-> $n { $! = Nil; my $a = do { CATCH { default { print "Caught "; }; }; meaning($n) }; $! ?? 42 !! $a } ); say @a 04:16
camelia Caught [2 42 7]
Xliff ^^ lucs
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lucs I've worked out this too: 04:18
m: my @a = (2, 0, 7).map(-> $n { my $val = $n; { CATCH { default { print "Caught "; $val = 42; } }; die if $n == 0 }; $val; }); say @a
camelia Caught [2 42 7]
Xliff I don't think you can return values from exception handling blocks. 04:19
lucs Doesn't look like it, right. 04:20
Xliff Nope. 04:21
lucs Oh well, this isn't too bad.
Xliff Yours was better'n mine. I've been coding on other things all day. 04:24
Now I go blow stuff up in Division 2
lucs Have fun :)
Xliff 'night! o/
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jmerelo An unanswered question in StackOverflow about memory usage, just in case someone can help stackoverflow.com/q/55352666/891440 05:20
Also, daily reminder that the period for prospective students to send their proposals to Google Summer of Code has just started.
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jmerelo .tell timotimo geth seems to be down... 06:03
... and yoleaux too ...
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tyil cronjob to build daily perl6 images seems to work, hub.docker.com/r/tyil/perl6/tags, alpine based image comes in at 46.4mb :D 06:39
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jmerelo tyil: great! 06:39
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SmokeMachine m: say “foo”[1] 07:15
camelia Index out of range. Is: 1, should be in 0..0
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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El_Che pts 2019 looks like a perl5 event: blogs.perl.org/users/neilb/2019/03/...-2019.html 07:35
I imaging it's just the wording of the blogpost? 07:48
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timotimo i restarted geth 08:56
i don't have access to the machine yoleaux runs on
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SmokeMachine .ask jmerelo is it possible to ask squashathon help to document Red? 09:09
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timotimo that won't work without yoleaux 09:10
SmokeMachine .tell jmerelo is it possible to ask squashathon help to document Red?
timotimo: thanks... :(
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SmokeMachine .ask yoleaux please, come back! :) 09:11
sena_kun SmokeMachine, I am not sure if anyone said it already, but as an advice: write a draft and then ask for revisions of grammar. I mean, you _know_ the implementation and can really write what it does and what it is _indented_ to do. Fixing grammar then is trivial for native speakers. On the other hand, you ask for(it seems so for me) something like "Read the code, find out for yourself what it does(and the code can be complicated) and
document it", which is a lot harder, so less people volunteer.
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: that makes sense... thank you very much for the advice... :) Ill try that way... 09:13
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sena_kun My English is non-native too and all I do are mistakes, but that doesn't really matter too much, in my experience. It is understand-able that for some English is not a first language, and that's ok, but some things are just harder than other. :) 09:13
and yes, I don't see why can't Red docs polishing a squashathon theme. But it must be really "polishing" with a list of things and easy to pick up tasks, like "Revise page A", "Revise page B", "Proof-read page C". With uncertain "Write docs" it is hard to volunteer even if person is willing too. 09:15
Just my 2 cents.
SmokeMachine sena_kun: I think you are totally right! thank you very much! 09:16
sena_kun SmokeMachine, you are welcome. Good luck with docs. \o/
s/a squashathon/be a squashathon/ 09:17
SmokeMachine sena_kun: next days Ill try to create a new documentation for Red...
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[ptc] timotimo: re: footnotes: I know, it's a bug in the Jekyll theme I'm using. It's been fixed on master but no new version is out yet :-/ 11:00
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timotimo damn 11:02
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[ptc] the project is fairly active, so as soon as a new release is out I can fix that problem :-) 11:05
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Geth doc: 805fccc8be | Coke++ | xt/words.pws
role name
 13:29
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ugexe why does cpan-p6 always leave,join,leave,join? seems like if there are problems staying connected it would be easier to just join when making an announcement and then leave like other bots e.g. travis-ci do 15:35
either way its a bit broken to leave,join,leave,join within one minute every time its loses connection 15:38
jast could be fixed by having it use SASL to authenticate
the second leave/join is a virtualized generated by the IRC server when the bot authenticates, to apply its new hostname 15:39
ugexe ah ha 15:41
so it could play nicer by authing before joining 15:45
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tyil ugexe: due to rampant memory usage it's getting OOMKilled, and due to authing it gets a new hostname which requires a rejoin 15:50
I presume it's related to github.com/rakudo/rakudo/issues/1501, as I'm using HTTP::UserAgent somewhere to look for new modules 15:51
jast: do you know whether IRC::Client supports SASL auth? 15:54
SmokeMachine Ill start a new documentation for Red... if someone finds something that should be documented and is not here (github.com/FCO/Red/projects/2) please let me know (and PRs are welcome...)
jast tyil: no idea - the other option is manually identifying with nickserv and waiting for / matching the response notice from nickserv *before* rejoining the channel 15:56
tyil I think I'd have to change IRC::Client if I want to change those things
manual NickServ auth is what it's doing already, fwiw
jast sure, but is IRC::Client forcing you to join a channel before you can control anything? 15:57
because if you can react to NOTICE messages you receive, you can just wait to join until you receive the notice from nickserv that says that you're now identified 15:58
tyil I guess I could do more stuff manually, but if I'm going to do pretty much everything manually I don't really need a framework to build a bot in :/
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ugexe maybe you should use a service pattern instead of having your bot use HTTP::UserAgent to do non-irc-bot things, such that it gets notified by something else (or polls something else) that you control 16:05
to punt the OOM issue 16:06
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jmerelo .seen samcv 16:24
poor, poor yoleaux... 16:26
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guifa SmokeMachine: I’m happy to help edit docs (and you can even write random things in Portuguese if you’re not sure how to say them in English even if your pt-BR sounds funny to me :P ) 17:05
El_Che guifa: are you from pt_PT, one of the smallest Portuguese speaking countries in the world? :P 17:11
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jmerelo El_Che: that would probably be Timor Leste 17:12
guifa El_Che: I’m Southern by the Grace of God as we like to say :-)
jmerelo El_Che: or Macau, by surface (country, not state)
guifa But I’m a medievalist by trade so Spain and Portugal are my typical haunts so I speak the peninsular varieties 17:13
jmerelo guifa: :-)
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El_Che jmerelo: one of :) 17:14
guifa: I also have a degree somewhere mentioning Portugal :)
kind of
guifa is thinking about making all of his international modules default to mwl-PT or ast-ES just … because. :-) 17:15
gks hi! is this the place to ask newbie questions about perl 6? it seems cool and i wanna learn it, but it's... intimidating :)
jmerelo gks: shoot!
guifa gks: absolutely, ask away
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gks ok! i found this piece of code in the docs, and i'm wondering what's up with the backslashes: 17:16
say ( -> (\i, \j) { i + j } for (3,9) X (2,10) );
evalable6 (5 13 11 19)
jmerelo good ol' Camelia feel mentioned
timotimo those are sigil-less variables
gks you can have sigil-less variables?
El_Che gks: as timotimo says, but not something you'll use soon
jnthn Well, they're not very variable, but yes :)
timotimo yup, they have specific semantics
jnthn (You can't re-bind them afterwards) 17:17
gks so i'm assuming if you want sigilless variables as arguments to a function, you need to escape them with a backslash?
jmerelo gks: sigilless arguments. In this case, they are the arguments to a Block that is being defind on the faly
timotimo or when you define them with "my"
jmerelo gks: if you want to define any kind of sigilless variables or arguments, yes.
gks ok, cool 17:18
guifa Put in terms that probably makes sense coming from other languages, if you define something with \foo, it becomes a scalar constant and doesn’t need a sigil afterwards.
jnthn gks: Yes, because otherwise it's ambiguous. `-> Int { }` for example means a block that takes an Int but then throws it away (doesn't put it into a variable). So the \ is saying "this is a variable name, not a type"
But then you can refer to it without the \ elsewhere in the scope
El_Che bareword is useful for constants imho
gks hmm. that all makes sense 17:19
El_Che docs.perl6.org/language/terms#Constants
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El_Che you don't need the \ when defining them with the keyword "constant" 17:19
jmerelo jnthn, timotimo grateful if you took a look at this question in SO: stackoverflow.com/q/55353143/891440 (anyone else too, of course) 17:20
El_Che: not exactly the same, but fair enough.
jnthn In Perl 6, sigils are not just part of a name, but also have a meaning ($ is item, @ is array-like, % is hash-like, & is callable code). Occasionally you don't want to enforce any of those meanings, and sigilless variables are handy then also.
But that tends to be relatively abstract code, not everyday code :) 17:21
jmerelo jnthn: not so abstract in signatures...
guifa still thinks custom sigils woudl totally be awesome, so ƒ could be IO::Path-like lol, etc.)
jnthn jmerelo: Well, that code has no reason to be using them :) 17:22
(The one that was posted here, I mean)
But maybe in the docs it is illustrating the concept of sigilless variables
jmerelo jnthn: I'll check that out. 17:23
gks jnthn: this is the place in the docs i found it: docs.perl6.org/language/py-nutshel...rehensions
jmerelo jnthn: right
jnthn: python migration docs... well, maybe to look the same 17:24
gks yeah, i was essentially wondering how to do cross (X operator, apparently!) and i figured the easiest way to look it up was to check the list comprehensions section of the python docs :)
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jmerelo gks: if you find that piece confusing just post an issue. We'll do our best to address it. Just mentioning it is helfup, anyway. 17:25
guifa Yeah. That section is actually a bit tricky in terms of writing it. Do we give all the ways to do the code, using $^i and $^j, or sigil-less to make it match python more, or do $_[0] and $_[1] or even just * and *? It’s cool to show the variety of solutions but … also could be overwhelming 17:27
El_Che I agree
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SmokeMachine guifa: thank you very much! Muito obrigado! 17:28
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guifa Maybe for that particular example, the best option would be to use say ( { $^i + $^j } for (3,9) X (2,10) ); and then link somewhere to the way the ^ twigil works. 17:30
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tyil ugexe: I could do that, yes, but that still feels like a dirty way around a symptom instead of solving the actual issue 17:40
at some point, *some* service will need to do this http request
doesn't really matter how much abstraction I put around it 17:41
ugexe ...yes but that service can be restarted without telling everyone about it every 15 minutes
tyil it would still tell me every 15 minutes
and again, if the underlying bug were to be solved, the issue would be gone too
ugexe so are you going to solve the underlying problem, or apply a different paradigm to avoid the problem? both of these are what would be expected in a real world situation. 17:42
tyil I don't think I have the required expertise to solve the underlying problem, but I'd gladly test out patches in moarvm and contribute feedback in order to help solve it 17:43
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tyil I'm not a big fan of symptom hunting 17:44
it'd add a lot of complexity, and all it'd do is move the issue, not fix it 17:45
ugexe i think a little work should be a requirement if you wish to push it into the public space
tyil could not I say the same about MoarVM?
ugexe its not a bunch of added complexity to move code to download via HTTP::UserAgent into an external scrpit, and have your bot read from a file 17:46
tyil except I don't, since I know they're doing the best they can, and mostly do it in their free time
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ugexe you think that comparison is remotely equivilent? 17:47
Xliff m: my $a; my $b; say "!" with $a && $b; 17:56
camelia ( no output )
Xliff m: my $a=''; my $b; say "!" with $a && $b;
camelia !
Xliff m: my $a=''; my $b; say "!" with $a andwith $b;
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Two terms in a row
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $a=''; my $b; say "!" with $a7⏏5 andwith $b;
expecting any of:
infix
infix stopper
Xliff Hrm. Sometimes you just want to test definedness on more than one var.
m: my $a=''; my $b; say "!" [andwith]($a, $b) 17:57
camelia 5===SORRY!5=== Error while compiling <tmp>
Missing infix inside []
at <tmp>:1
------> 3my $a=''; my $b; say "!" [7⏏5andwith]($a, $b)
expecting any of:
bracketed infix
infix
infix stopper
Xliff m: my $a=''; my $b; say "!" if $a.defined && $b.defined 17:58
camelia ( no output )
Xliff m: my $a=''; my $b=0; say "!" if $a.defined && $b.defined
camelia !
ugexe m: my $a = ""; my $x; with any($a, $x) { say 42 } 17:59
camelia 42
Xliff m: my $a = ""; my $x; with ($a, $x).all { say 42 }
camelia ( no output )
Xliff Ooh
ugexe++
Wonder what the perf hit is on that when using junction.... 18:00
ugexe isnt there a performanceable or something yet :P
Xliff LOL. benchmarkable 18:01
sena_kun benchable6,
benchable6 sena_kun, I cannot recognize this command. See wiki for some examples: github.com/perl6/whateverable/wiki/Benchable
sena_kun bench: 2015.12, 2019.03 say 'hi' 18:02
benchable6 sena_kun, starting to benchmark the 2 given commits
sena_kun, ¦2015.12: «0.1076» ¦2019.03: «0.1236»
sena_kun, benchmarked the given commits and found a performance difference > 10%, now trying to bisect
sena_kun, ¦2015.12: «0.1076» ¦b4f1f43: «0.1086» ¦7773c3d: «0.1195» ¦2019.03: «0.1236»
ugexe yeah that junction is pretty slow 18:04
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ugexe 1.5s vs 0.5s 18:05
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ugexe for 1000000 iterations 18:05
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Geth doc: 70630a8355 | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Metamodel/RolePunning.pod6
Clarifications for RolePunning refs #1306
 18:21
doc: 99c20ef5b4 | (JJ Merelo)++ | 2 files
Adds new (and correct) definitions to map

This closes #1731 but as a matter of fact was meant to address issue #2675. The thing is map is just defined in Any (or frequently used in lists). It does not belong to either and might be a good candidate for the issue on independent routines: #2578 or #2070
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Metamodel::RolePunning
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zostay m: class A { has $.f; method WHICH { $!f.WHICH } }; (set(A.new(:f<a>)).<a>:k).say 19:03
camelia a
zostay I would have thought that code would be identical in operation to this, but I would be wrong.
m: class A { has $.f; method WHICH { $!f.WHICH } }; (set(A.new(:f<a>)).{A.new(:f<a>)}:k).say 19:04
camelia A.new(f => "a")
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zostay I was thinking it would be useful to use a Set for a case where I constructed a hash that maps $name => Foo.new(:$name, ...), but it looks like not 19:07
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zostay since AT-KEY lookups seem to be operating on the lookup=>value pair not the found=>value pair. 19:08
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cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Grammar-PrettyErrors (0.0.3) by 03BDUGGAN 20:10
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antoniogamiz \o/ 20:34
patrickb o/ 20:35
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antoniogamiz I need one phrase to encourage people to learn perl* 20:49
any ideas?
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ugexe Learn perl or eat shit 20:51
patrickb :-P
antoniogamiz ugexe: mmmmm hahaahaha
maybe something more polite pls xdd
tadzik "check out why we still choose it even though it's so ugly" 20:52
patrickb For Perl5: No hype, but battle proven.
antoniogamiz tadzik: oh thats good :ooooo
patrickb: a good one too :oo 20:53
thanks :)
patrickb (it's a quasi quote of ovid) 20:54
For Perl6, well, it is rather epic in many respects... 20:55
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sena_kun "Just epic in so many respects" 20:58
antoniogamiz sena_kun: mmm I like that too thanks c: 21:00
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antoniogamiz s 21:32
ups
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tyil new cpan-p6_ is ups :D 21:48
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antoniogamiz yep hahaha 21:49
tyil longer delay between messages, and pulls new module data from a postgres database (hopefully) 21:51
I should stay awake for at least an hour to make sure it doesn't shit itself immediately
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tyil and too see if my new docker images are stable for real world usage 21:52
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antoniogamiz tyil: I hope they are :D 22:03
tyil so far so good it seems :>
I used to use git.tyil.nl/docker/rakudo-star, but now I have git.tyil.nl/docker/perl6 22:05
it's about a tenth of the size, comes with a more recent Perl 6 (nightly), and allows me to easily test out specific branches to test fixes on real applications
antoniogamiz uoh, that's quite good then, good job! 22:06
tyil thanks :D
antoniogamiz maybe I can use it someday :D
tyil I'm very happy with the results thus far as well
I hope you can ^_^
if you need help getting something to work, don't hesitate to ask here, as there are many people eager to help out 22:07
antoniogamiz I know, thanks for the help c:
tyil have you worked on anything in Perl 6 lately to show off? 22:09
antoniogamiz well, I'm making a math module to learn the basics 22:10
it's quite simple yet though ahahah
you can check it out here: github.com/antoniogamiz/Math-ConvergenceMethods
tyil nice
are you planning to add it to CPAN once youre confident with it? 22:13
(or did you already upload it?)
antoniogamiz yep, I plan to upload it
but I dont have enough time lastly as you can see by the last commit ahahah
university is time consuming 22:14
tyil I know the feeling
antoniogamiz are you a student too? :)
tyil used to be, I dropped out last year
guifa antoniogamiz: I think most people on here have either are students, have been students, or worse, are professors 22:15
tyil got a job which allows me to work with Perl 6 now
guifa glares in the mirror and looks at jmarelo
antoniogamiz guifa: hahahahhaah I see
jmerelo is a good professor though :D
tyil: uoh congratulations! :D 22:16
guifa I kind of want to port Colossal Caverns to show off my localization framework
antoniogamiz Colossal Caverns? 22:17
guifa Cave I mean lol
antoniogamiz I still dont get it... :c 22:18
guifa It’s an old text adventure game
But AFAIK it’s only been released in English (it was open sourced not long ago)
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guifa But it’s so old it has its own code for replacing %s %d in strings! 22:20
antoniogamiz aah :oo
I gotta go! tyil I hope everything works fine :D! 22:37
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tyil I'm waiting for someone to upload a module tbh :( 22:38
timotimo masak: today's autopun spotting, maybe: twitter.com/craigdissel/status/111...6404199424 - OH (@pypyproject): "cups of coffee are like analogies in that I'm making one right now" 22:42
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Garland_g[m] Is there a way to do multicast sockets in Perl6? 23:39
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ugexe libuv has multicast support, but I think thats about as far as it goes 23:51
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