»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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uid9164 PHP 7.1.4 (cli) (built: Apr 11 2017 19:54:37) ( ZTS MSVC14 (Visual C++ 2015) x64 ) 02:34
<code> while ($a <= 1000000000) { $c += ($a * 2) % 3; $a += 1;} 02:35
This code consumes 51 secs on perl6 while 54 secs on php 7.1
Much beyond my expect 02:36
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uzl o/ 02:41
There are several YAML modules in the ecosystem so a PR could be send for their inclusion in yaml.org/. 02:42
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irced hey jaldhar 04:21
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bgummala Hi 07:08
I am trying to write a server program in perl
and client side coding in tcl
but the client is not getting connected to server
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bgummala hi 07:13
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MasterDuke bgummala: what protocol are you using to communicate? 07:50
timotimo they're already gone :( 07:51
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tyil wonder if this'll fix my zef issue being unable to install stuff 07:56
if I add openssh-client to the image, I get a different error on missing curl/wget/pswebrequest 07:57
so I'm compiling a new image that contains openssh-client, git curl and wget
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 6b444bd896 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Remove mention of "Velvet Divorce"
 08:23
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tyil heh 08:41
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tyil I wonder what the reason is for zef to use ~/.zef/tmp, in stead of using $TMP for tempfiles 08:41
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SmokeMachine is there any reason to not store the function code inside of its object? 08:52
m: sub bla { "ret" }.perl.say
camelia sub bla { #`(Sub|78466296) ... }
sena_kun SmokeMachine, while not answering the question, why would you want it to? 08:56
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: I'm thinking on how to make Red help users on doing migrations... so, my cli could load the model, change what it should and copy the methods code... 08:57
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sena_kun SmokeMachine, you mean DB->code migration or code->DB? 08:59
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: I mean the stage to change the code that will do the DB migration... 08:59
sena_kun: something like this: github.com/FCO/Red/issues/15#issue...-514524933 09:01
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sena_kun SmokeMachine, sorry, no idea how to help. :/ 09:04
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: but can you see anything terribly wrong on having the code on the function object? 09:05
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sena_kun SmokeMachine, I think that 1)code objects are closures, so if you try to EVAL it from other scope without closed lexicals it'll go bad quickly 09:06
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sena_kun maybe there are also reasons 2) and 3), but I can't think of something immediately 09:06
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: but I can use it without EVALing... 09:08
sena_kun SmokeMachine, yes, if you are just e.g. printing it, shouldn't be a problem, I just think that people might do it this way, though, well, that doesn't really seems like an excuse to me. 09:09
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SmokeMachine sena_kun: one example, javascript has it... 09:10
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Geth doc/raku: 22c20c6a95 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | CREDITS
Remove obsolete pumpking mention

See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/63...889c1e3e53		 09:34
doc/raku: 65f0e414d2 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | CREDITS
Remove obsolete pumpking mention

See github.com/rakudo/rakudo/commit/63...889c1e3e53		 09:37
doc/raku: 6cbc871fa1 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 0 files
Merge branch 'master' into raku
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 0b5402e1de | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
The P and 6 in Camelia are not an issue, but a tribute
 10:37
problem-solving/path-to-raku: d71dc5cf60 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
s/.code/.raku/

As some classes already have a .code method, and this would be a collision.		 10:39
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tadzik ah, I hoped .code would stay to make us future-proof for futher renames ;) 10:44
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: bf7ab7839b | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Mention what to do with IRC channels
 10:48
problem-solving/path-to-raku: e5c5d42930 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Mention channel forwarding
 10:49
problem-solving/path-to-raku: 7d0aab8eed | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
"rakudo" should be the main executable
 10:52
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: a79dde05a3 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
.pod6 to become .rd
 10:58
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lizmat tadzik: what I've written is not law, it's just how I see it now and the document is a reflection of that 10:59
lizmat goes into seeing what .code currently does
tadzik lizmat: I'm just kidding ;) 11:00
I quite like the new filenames 11:01
AlexDaniel the filenames are great, yeah 11:02
lizmat wrt to .code versus .raku, I'm more worried about confusion with the .codes methods 11:03
m: dd "abc".codes
camelia 3
lizmat so going to stick with .raku for now 11:04
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AlexDaniel well, .codes is weird by itself 11:04
like, it's a very short name for a feature that's not used all that often
and wouldn't .codepoints be more readable?
but whatever, here I am wanting to change everything again :) 11:05
lizmat: I actually love .rd
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 1ee09085fc | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Special attention to non-latin script countries

Specifically for the announcement of Raku		 11:09
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AlexDaniel greppable6: codes 11:12
greppable6 AlexDaniel, 878 lines, 141 modules: gist.github.com/ddc8de5f4e7cc6da24...f5b3610976 11:13
lizmat greppable: \.codes
greppable6 lizmat, 78 lines, 19 modules: gist.github.com/07114229fded5158fc...cf277f6ade
lizmat AlexDaniel: ^^
still quite a lot 11:14
AlexDaniel that's really not a lot of use
cro ones are in js files, then there's a bunch of stuff in pdf module, some in docs. And then a little bit of everywhere 11:16
I think a soft deprecation is a possibility for deconfusing .code and .codes if we want to go with that 11:17
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 66daa4f1a6 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Open the door for .code
 11:26
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 8d86f071c9 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Mention versioning
 11:56
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 3c0fee64d1 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Compilers are free to handle optional nameds in 'unit'
 11:59
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pmurias lizmat: what caused the switch from being heavily opposed against the rename to being in favour of it? 12:07
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lizmat pmurias: if you look at my "On Raku" blog post, I made clear that I would like to give the "Raku" brand a completely separate chance 12:12
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lizmat the only thing that's changed since then in my mind, is that it is the *only* way to go 12:12
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 7188f3974f | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Handwave about support for other languages as a compunit
 12:19
lizmat pmurias: and that change of mind came from weekly research for the Perl 6 weekly and the absence of Larry's voice on the matter 12:21
pmurias re switching from 'use' to 'unit' doesn't that prevent mixing of multiple languages in the same file? 12:24
lizmat: and it seems while a lexically scope 'use v5' could be useful for say porting something piecemeal if we are having the entire file be in python wouldn't be it better to just have it say in a .py file without unit 12:30
lizmat pmurias: we've decided that you can only set the language level for a *compilation unit* 12:31
so a scoped version would be out of the question, or mixing of languages inside a compilation unit
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 1c2ece9590 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Mention effects on event naming
 12:32
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Kaiepi a friend of mine made this pastebin.bun/ 12:36
* pastebin.run/
it supports perl 6!
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lizmat cool 12:40
weekly: pastebin.run/
notable6 lizmat, Noted! (weekly)
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grondilu Anybody knows how to simply use HTTP::Server::Tiny? 12:41
Like how to just serve the files in the current directory?
python 3 has a very nice, simple call : python3 -m http.server 12:42
I wish there were something that simple in Perl 6
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xfix o/ 12:44
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grondilu tries HTTP::Server::Simple 12:54
xfix pastebin.run is still work in progress, there is still a lot to be done still, but it can execute Perl 6 (even if it cannot syntax highlight it, because there is no support for Perl 6 highlighting in CodeMirror) 12:55
and it's not written in Perl 6 (disappointing, i know)
grondilu gets "(Simple) at localhost:8080 12:56
12:55 GET /index.html HTTP/1.1
"
grondilu is confused AF
grondilu gives up 12:57
xfix p6: say Q[@A`DO world!]~|<HeLhg> 12:58
camelia Hello world! 12:59
Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: e4461ed9f2 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Simplify versioning
 13:03
xfix HTTP::Server::Tiny seems very minimalistic to me, it doesn't seem to provide static file support or anything like that, you need to implement it yourself i think
sena_kun grondilu, maybe Cro::HTTP? See cro.services/ "Set up your routes" code chunk, then you need cro.services/docs/reference/cro-ht...ic_content added in routes and you are done 13:05
this is not a single command, of course
tobs greppable6: \.code
greppable6 tobs, 559 lines, 108 modules: gist.github.com/23fad65a80670c16eb...b9f938241d 13:06
jnthn I did speculate at some point a `cro just ...` pluggable thing, where we could handle various simple tasks, so we could say things like `cro just serve /path/to/static/content`
tadzik that sounds nice :)
scimon I finally got Trait::Env working for Attributes with precompliation. (But utterly changing how it works). 13:12
pamplemousse The podcast Command Line Heroes did an episode on the history of Perl/Perl 6 last Tuesday that quoted lizmat++ www.redhat.com/en/command-line-her...g-for-perl 13:13
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scimon And I realised I had a line in the docs that was no longer valid. 13:17
AlexDaniel kent\n: it's an interesting feature, but I can't say it's a useful one 13:22
kent\n: I can't say there's any comment that is spam, abuse, off-topic, outdated or resolved 13:23
tobs greppable6: \.raku 13:29
greppable6 tobs, 75 lines, 40 modules: gist.github.com/19d14b6863b422daa9...7e473f640f
AlexDaniel greppable6: \.raku[^d] 13:30
greppable6 AlexDaniel, Found nothing!
AlexDaniel greppable6: raku[^d]
greppable6 AlexDaniel, 1 line, 1 module: gist.github.com/2c7b5202d7dded37a0...71db1ced7f
cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Trait::Env (1.0.1) by 03SCIMON 13:31
New module released to CPAN! Trait::Env (1.0.0) by 03SCIMON
tobs AlexDaniel: "Those who can't use their head must use their back" :) 13:32
or their eyes
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Doc_Holliwood Guys, how do I ad hoc add a method to an existing class again? I've seen people do it here, but can't remember details 13:49
sena_kun m: class A {}; A.^add_method('foo', method { 1234 }); A.new.foo; 13:50
camelia ( no output )
sena_kun m: class A {}; A.^add_method('foo', method { 1234 }); A.new.foo.say;
camelia 1234
sena_kun Doc_Holliwood, ^
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Geth ¦ problem-solving: AlexDaniel assigned to jnthn Issue Language versioning. github.com/perl6/problem-solving/issues/88 14:18
jdv79 iirc mst and/or someone else had to do a bunch of cpan downstream mgmt - if we change PAUSE/CPAN that's a concern 14:19
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jdv79 i could do the PAUSE/CPAN specific bits if desired 14:20
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Doc_Holliwood Ty, sena_kun 14:31
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Doc_Holliwood It worked, however I just learned there already is a builtin I can use 14:31
sena_kun \o/
Doc_Holliwood m: "AABBBCCCCCAA".comb( /(.)$0+/ ).join("+").say; 14:32
camelia AA+BBB+CCCCC+AA
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cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Gnome::Glib (0.14.3) by 03MARTIMM 14:47
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Geth doc/raku: d84f4c41b3 | Coke++ | doc/Language/classtut.pod6
Fix typo
 14:50
doc/raku: 1393ee936c | Coke++ | doc/Language/pod.pod6
update more refs to Perl
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lucasb I'm very surprised this renaming will happen. :-| But hey... I welcome the new name :-) 14:57
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lucasb I think I would prefer to let Perl 6 rest as a frozen historical attempt, just like the synopses documents are kinda frozen. And use this opportunity to refactor P6 into the new language Raku. But this is out of question I know. :D 14:58
jdv79 what would you refactor - out of sheer curiosity 14:59
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lucasb just little details, mostly cosmetic that I have already said here. I think everyone has their little "edges" that they would like changed 15:01
I think this means give "the core designers" a little slack to break backward compatibility. But that may seen as an absurd idea at this time :) 15:03
Doc_Holliwood I'm in favor of the change, but methinks it should happen when rakudo is 100% production ready. That would combine the little publicity value of the two events. 15:04
jdv79 i thought what's what the whole lang ver and/or slangs are for? 15:10
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jdv79 as long as they are not any deep kinda changes at least 15:11
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uzl o/ 15:18
Is there a P6 equivalent for Python's import..as.. thingy?
Xliff uzl: Do you want to change the package or class name? 15:29
jdv79 i thought there was a terse way but i can't find it 15:31
uzl Xliff: I'm declaring several our-declared sub in a package and I'd like to use them with shorter names. Not their FQN. 15:32
pamplemousse: Listening to the podcast. Great find! 15:33
weekly: www.redhat.com/en/command-line-her...g-for-perl
notable6 uzl, Noted! (weekly)
Xliff uzl: :/ -- OK, I don't think this is what you were looking for, but you can have a module that exports aliases for all of those subs and use that? 15:35
constant shortname is export := really::long::named::sub 15:36
timotimo build a slang that makes that a shorter command
Xliff If necessary, you can put them under different export tags.
timotimo: What is it with you and Slangs?!
uzl Should I do inside the module I'm exporting from? Or where I'm using the subs? 15:37
timotimo just because i don't slag slangs doesn't mean i'm a slanger
uzl Xliff: I guess the module I'm importing from given the 'is export'?!
Xliff You a slangr, yo! Y'jest donnoit!
uzl: I would say you COULD create a separate module if you wanted. 15:38
That way all of those use statements can be abstracted away, if those packages just contained subs.
uzl: Have some code I can see?
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MasterDuke i thought there was some NYI syntax for `use`ing as a different name, but that the only way to do it right now is something like `use Long::Name; constant LN := Long::Name;` 15:41
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Xliff MasterDuke: That's basically what I am trying to say, except going as far as aliasing our-scoped subs in various packages. 15:42
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uzl Xliff: The module is long-ish so the following is a code snippet representing the module: pastebin.run/6X9J3gJPb7 15:58
Instead of calling Geuse::Utils::probably-long-name, I'd like to call probably-long-name (or even Utils::probably-long-name). I know could just declare them lexically and then use export. However, I wanted to know if this was something possible in P6.
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Xliff uzl: I don't think there's a shortcut. Even python's import as only allows you to rename a namespace. 16:05
uzl: In the module where you 'use Geuse::Utils', you could do as MasterDuke++ suggested and use a constant to make that shorter. 16:06
constant U := Geuse::Utils
Means youc an then call U::probably-long-name.
I would still suggest something like an alias module that takes it one bit further. 16:07
However, that's the best I can do, ATM.
uzl I think that would be fine. Thanks! 16:08
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lucasb well, that #81 thread is huge. I'm trying to read the replies carefully and have distributed thumbs-up to those I think share my view: tadzik, pamplemousse, ggoebel and possibly others :) 16:51
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vrurg Xliff: pamplemousse is perhaps close to solve the 3075 problem. 17:05
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Xliff vrurg: Oh! Thanks for letting me know. Is there something I can follow? 17:09
jmerelo briefly says hey 17:11
vrurg Xliff: nothing at all. I just mentioned the problem on perl6-dev and pamplemousse got interested. I'm just passing his today's words to you. 17:14
jmerelo: o/
Xliff Oh, OK! Thanks for letting me know. 17:15
vrurg The positive outcome of this: I finally pushed myself into moar debugging... ;)
Xliff Haha! Maybe you can give me some tips.
jmerelo vrurg: good luck with that! 17:17
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vrurg Me? Tips? I barely know a few pieces of code of Moar! Nah not soon. :) 17:18
Besides, I didn't do C programming for at least a decade now, more like almost 20yrs. Though it was my primary language prior to Perl. 17:19
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 985934b855 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | 2 files
Move file to solutions/language
 17:26
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Geth whateverable: a956d12f37 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | 6 files
Implement user list and automatic .tell

Previously evalable6 and unicodable6 had to run NAMES command in order to see if there's a specific user on the channel. Now bots automatically keep track of join/part/quit/nick events, relying on NAMES only to get the initial list. They will also use NAMES to refresh the list from time to time, which is somehow needed in my IRC client during netsplits and such.
Also, thanks to this tellable6 now implements automatic .tell when you try to speak to a real user who is no longer on the channel.		 18:32
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problem-solving/path-to-raku: e35a5ac301 | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Add mention about NQP (Not Quite Peanuts)
 18:35
whateverable: ae4a0a4a75 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | xbin/Evalable.p6
Make evalable6 less tolerant of misspellings

Otherwise it clashes with tellable6.		 18:36
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Geth whateverable: 16eb2f7137 | (Aleks-Daniel Jakimenko-Aleksejev)++ | xt/unicodable.t
Fix broken link in tests
 18:39
tobs AlexDaniel: "automatic .tell" ← cool 18:40
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AlexDaniel yeah, the bot is much better now 18:41
it normalizes nicknames more aggressively, so do expect to receive some lost messages when it joins :)
and less messages will be lost from now on because it doesn't allow to send to nicknames that it never saw, and it'll even give you a “did you mean” message when that happens 18:42
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vrurg AlexDaniel++ 18:47
AlexDaniel woolfy: speaking of the plush camelia, I really forgot to get one :S maybe next time 18:51
woolfy: I don't know how you made it happen but it is fantastic, extremely cute
a bit smaller in real life, I was expecting it to be a tad bigger :)
lizmat AlexDaniel: I thought you had one already :-( 18:52
now you *must* come to the SPW to collect one :-)
AlexDaniel hah 18:53
tobs I've heard the real Camelia has a 3 meter wing-span, enough for a large sofa :-) 18:54
MasterDuke i'm probably not going to make it to the SPW either, but i have registered for the LPW. anyone else going to be there? 18:55
AlexDaniel MasterDuke: I'm seriously considering it
lizmat hopes it won't be called "London Perl Workshop", so she'll be able to make it there as well 18:56
MasterDuke is fine with giving a long grace period of assuming something named "Perl" includes all sister langs 18:57
AlexDaniel: cool
AlexDaniel lizmat: well, you first make the rename actually happen, then we'll talk :P 18:58
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Geth problem-solving/path-to-raku: 48793deddb | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | solutions/language/PATH-TO-RAKU.md
Add Not Quite Pottery as a backronym for NQP
 19:08
19:08 __jrjsmrtn__ left
tadzik :D 19:08
Geth doc: ajs++ created pull request #2952:
Docs for \c, \C, \x and \X		 19:12
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woolfy AlexDaniel: we must correct that at some point... like lizmat, I thought too that you already had one. Come over to the Swiss Perl Workshop in Olten this weekend ( act.perl-workshop.ch/spw2019/schedu...2019-08-16 ) to enjoy a lot of Perl 6 goodness and get a Camelia from me too. 19:18
lizmat AlexDaniel: and if you can't make that, we'll figure out another way 19:19
Geth doc: sfischer13++ created pull request #2953:
Typos
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AlexDaniel lizmat: pretty sure it'll have to be another way 19:25
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Doc_Holliwood is working on URL::Normalize 19:48
Man, this spec talk is the next worst thing to legalese
MasterDuke somebody on HN is talking about programming languages using rationals, maybe someone with a HN account could chime in news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20697208 20:02
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[Sno] /wave lichtkind 20:10
lichtkind cheers [Sno]
[Sno] : did I see you in Riga? 20:11
[Sno] I strongly hope you did
lichtkind I just cant corelate you nick to a face 20:12
timotimo did sno wear a signature black hat? 20:14
[Sno] didn't
lizmat yes he did, occasionally :-)
ah?
hmmm.... 20:15
[Sno] but not in Riga ;)
lizmat ok
[Sno] and neither timotimo nor lichtkind saw me with that ;)
timotimo with without the hat?
[Sno] they might know my Rübezahl hat on GitHub
I definitively have to answer lichtkind wrt. his 4 gangsters wrong assumptions :D 20:17
timotimo i must have missed that :)
[Sno] timotimo: I think you've never seen me wearing my black hat
wait ... maybe in Gummersbach 20:18
timotimo i definitely was in gummersbach
[Sno] I know - and I know we'd spoken there 20:19
lichtkind me too
[Sno] but I don't know whether I weared my hat while you'd seen me ;)
lichtkind i mean gummersbach
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timotimo yeah we spoke in gummersbach as well i believe 20:20
i am certain, actually
lichtkind yes I think so 20:24
[Sno] lizmat: I think, ash got it now :D 20:28
dunno what he wants to say
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[Sno] lichtkind: du hast post in deiner mailbox :P 20:29
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AlexDaniel [Sno]: definitely not something good or nice :) 20:52
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AlexDaniel [Sno]: but if we're only left with “wait but you can't do that” kind of arguments, then things are going pretty good :) 20:57
[Sno] AlexDaniel: wtf do you talk about? 20:58
lucasb haha :)
AlexDaniel hehehe
[Sno]: I was replying to “I think, ash got it now”, but maybe I misunderstood 20:59
and the next message :)
lucasb I'm sorry but I really sad about this
I don't want to pollute that thread even more 21:00
AlexDaniel lucasb: what's sad exactly? 21:01
lucasb regarding "[Larry's] on own wish": I think his wish as a good parent is to set his daughter free, not to *rename* it
20 years! If wanted to have renamed it it would have already been done. 21:02
*If he wanted to rename...
AlexDaniel lucasb: he doesn't, but letting your kids grow up is also kinda hard
lizmat lucasb: but that's the point, I think: Larry doesn't want it renamed, but is also parent enough that he realises his brainchild has a mind of its own and is now intending to be known under a different name 21:03
but still be the same child / sibling 21:04
FWIW, I've actually seen that happen IRL with some friends of mine when they went to university :-)
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AlexDaniel omg what do I do with all the tells to GuestXXXXX 21:58
ah wait, do I even have any… hold on… :) 21:59
no! OK, I was looking at seens 22:00
kawaii I missed the chat earlier but I'll certainly make it to LPW given that it's in my own country. :) 22:01
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