»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'p6: say 3;' or /msg camelia p6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org or colabti.org/irclogger/irclogger_log/perl6 | UTF-8 is our friend! 🦋
Set by Zoffix on 25 July 2018.
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Doc_Holliwood united domains says raku.org is registered but for sale (1800 Euros) 00:54
timotimo rakud.org
Doc_Holliwood well it currently redirects to perl6.org
timotimo what, raku.org? 00:55
Doc_Holliwood so it makes sense to assume the owner might be here?
timotimo oh
Doc_Holliwood why is there no .lang domain anyway? 00:56
raku.network is available, so it raku.help 00:57
lizmat raku.org is mine 00:59
where does united domains say that ? 01:00
Doc_Holliwood www.united-domains.de
search for raku
timotimo maybe if someone is willing to shell out the 1.8k they'll contact liz and ask her to pay 2k to keep it 01:01
Grinnz could just be out of date
lizmat too tired to look at that now...
will look further into that tomorrow 01:02
but it looks to me like their just outdated info, let some poor schmuck pay 1800 US$ and make 600 US$ in the process (because I bought it for 1200)
timotimo oof 01:03
lizmat it's a nice business model: scrape all domain sellers, add 50% on the price and sell it on your own site 01:04
somebody orders with you, then they buy the domain at the original seller and make 50 profit
Doc_Holliwood i looked at ICANN and those are the guys with the say right? 01:12
there it says status: clientTransferProhibited
so, lizmat seems to be right, a reselling scam 01:13
lizmat yeah, had that happen to us once: sold a domain we had for a long time for 1000 euro, only to find out the guy immediately sold it for 5000 01:14
ok, I really need to get some sleep&
timotimo gnite lizmat 01:15
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discord6 <RaycatWhoDat> Do you guys feel like there's a need for an attract site of some sort? 01:34
<RaycatWhoDat> That is to say, a small website that can be used to attract passerbys by being pretty 01:35
timotimo rakudo.org is very pretty from a design standpoint, but probably not what you mean? 01:36
discord6 <RaycatWhoDat> I thought Rakudo was the compiler? 01:37
<RaycatWhoDat> Cause I also like rakudo.org's design 01:38
<RaycatWhoDat> I meant an attract something strictly for Raku 01:39
<RaycatWhoDat> d/something/
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jmerelo releasable6: status 06:46
releasable6 jmerelo, Next release in ≈6 days and ≈12 hours. R6 is down. At least 6 blockers. Unknown changelog format
jmerelo, Details: gist.github.com/db4ab348a0e9d0c38a...6f33216d38
jmerelo .tell SmokeMachine thanks! 06:48
tellable6 jmerelo, I'll pass your message to SmokeMachine
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MasterDuke what raku irc channels have been created? and are they being logged? 06:50
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Geth_ doc: 1fc5dfbe1c | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/X/Syntax/Perl5Var.pod6
Adds exception for Perl 5 variables

Refs #2632
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/X::Syntax::Perl5Var
doc: da962d2bbf | (JJ Merelo)++ | doc/Type/Attribute.pod6
Adds example for is default on attributes

The item in #2632 was already covered, but this add an illustrative example.
synopsebot Link: doc.perl6.org/type/Attribute
jmerelo MasterDuke AFAI understand it, it's going to be a simple rename of this channel and the rest.
moritz I don't think you can rename IRC channels? 07:39
jmerelo moritz apparently you can wiki.ubuntu.com/IRC/MovingChannels 07:42
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jmerelo moritz will you want to write something for the Advent Calendar? 08:53
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finanalyst_mobil jmerelo: good morning 11:01
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finanalyst is there a link documenting what the various bots on this chat do? 11:37
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AlexDaniel finanalyst: there's github.com/perl6/doc/issues/711#is...-235414744 11:47
finanalyst AlexDaniel: thanks. I've seen several commands here, but I don't want to just try one to see what happens 11:48
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finanalyst AlexDaniel: I looked at the issue. This has a lot of good information. Shouldn't be in an issue! Glossary seems a bad place. May be a new tutorial-type page? 11:57
AlexDaniel: Just found 'Community' Tab 11:58
AlexDaniel finanalyst: yeah, that ticket is about this page: perl6.org/community/irc 11:59
so it is sorta documented, but the ticket is more up-to-date
finanalyst AlexDaniel: I'll look at trying to update Community page. May be good to have a link in perl6 topic???? 12:00
When is name change to be finalised? I saw Larry's agreement. 12:01
How will transition be managed, eg. namespaces, documentation, IRC channels etc
Will rakudo be an alias for perl6, then perl6 an alias for rakudo? 12:02
El_Che finanalyst: there is a PR, and it will be expanded/complemented where necessary
finanalyst: monday will be the day of the merge of no one opposes.
finanalyst: and it's meant as a rename, not an alias
finanalyst: read the PR text as it explains what you're asking 12:03
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AlexDaniel PR in question: github.com/perl6/problem-solving/p...8f232017cf 12:04
El_Che finanalyst: github.com/perl6/problem-solving/p...8f232017cf
oh, you were faster
AlexDaniel 2019-10-14T08:08:35Z it is, btw 12:05
but I'll be asleep at that time so I'll probably hit merge a few hours later
El_Che AlexDaniel: use the wake up function of your mobile :) 12:06
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AlexDaniel El_Che: have you seen this? github.com/AlexDaniel/orgsleep 12:06
if I'm getting some good sleep I'd much rather not interrupt it 12:07
El_Che of course, just kidding :)
AlexDaniel there's a chance I'd hit the button right before going to bed though 12:08
timotimo: btw are you sure you don't want to approve it? :) 12:09
not that it matters much, but still
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finanalyst El_Che: Just read the PR. Not quite sure on a couple of things. One is: I use perl6 in a terminal. When can I start using raku? 12:18
Will this be after .e or after next merge? 12:19
El_Che finanalyst: if you use my Linux packagesn you already can for a long time :)
but the build process needs to be changed indeed 12:20
finanalyst just tried raku on my Ubuntu (I use latest rakudostar), and got raku not found
El_Che finanalyst: yeah, I didn't mean star (which I don't use), but these: github.com/nxadm/rakudo-pkg#os-repositories 12:22
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El_Che finanalyst: but anyway, the renaming hasn't happened yet. 12:23
finanalyst: I just added the raku alias when it was an... alias
finanalyst El_Che: I'm beginning to be a bit more active in community. Slow period for a while. Rakudostar seemed the least painful way to update. What's good practice now? 12:25
Also I seem to have broken my perl6 compiler for documentation. Can't get --doc=HTML to work 12:26
El_Che finanalyst: the easiest is the packages frim the distros theselves.
but if you want the latest, I think compiling yourself or rakudo-pkg is the easiest 12:27
finanalyst I'm considering reinstalling perl6. Should I wait til Monday for merge?
El_Che finanalyst: no
the merge will take some time
I mean the changes it introduces
I originally create the rakudo packages because I had a different use case than rakudo star 12:28
1. I don't want extra packages (I want to use it in containers), I want to install whatever I need with zef
2. I wanted precompiled packages in the format of my os 12:29
finanalyst El_Che: which os do you run?
El_Che Ubuntu (desktop, Server), alpine (server), CentOS (server) 12:30
but I added other distros when people asked for it
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El_Che like fedore, suse and so on 12:30
finanalyst El_Che: I use Ubuntu too. Very happy to see. How often do you update packages? 12:32
El_Che finanalyst: with every rakudo release
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timotimo AlexDaniel: sorry. i will, i looked at a few of the new commits and promptly forgot to continue 12:33
finanalyst El_Che: FAB!!!!! I avoided packages with perl6 as I had some issues (very long time ago) with the packages being out of date
El_Che finanalyst: I try to create packages rigth away at release time to see if something is broken
finanalyst: if everything is ok, the packages are available just a few hours after release 12:34
finanalyst El_Che: Great! Suppose I update using Ubuntu to a new release, say of rakudo. Do I need to run a zef update to recompile all modules? 12:36
I'm thinking that isn't necessary, but just checking
timotimo rakudo updates precomp files by itself 12:37
El_Che finanalyst: nothing fancy about the packages, just regular Rakudo. So the first time you use them the precomp stuff will happen if needed
timotimo we still don't have anything that clears out precomp files that are no longer needed (or reachable) i believe?
finanalyst I am looking at everything I can find about CompUnit. a) I think there should be some sort of tutorial page (b) I think the design of Pod::To::Cache needs to be changed 12:39
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mj41 m: my &bl = -> $_ { .say }; multi rub_bl( Block:D $par_bl ) { $par_bl.(42) }; rub_bl( &bl ) 13:59
camelia 42
mj41 m: my &bl = -> $_ { .say }; multi rub_bl( Block:D &par_bl ) { &par_bl.(42) }; rub_bl( &bl )
camelia Cannot resolve caller rub_bl(Block:D); none of these signatures match:
(Block:D &par_bl)
in block <unit> at <tmp> line 1
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mj41 m: my $a = 10, 20; 14:26
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
mj41 m: my $a = 10, 20; CONTROL { say "CNT: {$_}" };
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
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mj41 m: sub foo { my $a = 10, 20; CONTROL { say "CNT: {$_}" }; return }; foo; 14:27
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
CNT: <return control exception>
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
mj41 How to catch that "Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context " warning? 14:28
finanalyst I'm trying to install NativeHelpers::Blob with zef and I'm getting ld -lxxx errors for uv (libuv?) and atomic_ops. These should be in build-essentials, but I can't work out why I'm getting the error. Anyone come across this? 14:38
timotimo libuv is most probably not in build-essentials 14:47
and also not libatomic_ops
they are things used in moarvm 14:48
when moarvm is installed i think it also installs the header files for those libs in some place?
i think?
finanalyst timotimo: I've just installed -dev versions of these libraries and libtommath. How to provide info for future users?
timotimo hmm. i *think* we no longer have custom patches in libtommath 14:49
for a while there hadn't been a release with fixes that we required, but there has since been one
finanalyst I installed rakudo using rakudo_pkg and then got these problems when installing modules with zef 14:50
timotimo i'm not actually sure how exactly it's meant to be handled
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finanalyst Linenoise and NativeHelpers::Blob generated the ld errors. 14:50
timotimo modules that build their own C stuff tend to take the config from moarvm, i.e. what paths were used for compilation and such 14:51
that isn't really sensible for multiple reasons
like when you use a moarvm that's been built with clang, but you only have gcc
or when you're on windows and you don't have MSVC, but you have cygwin gcc or whatever
i really don't know :(
finanalyst zef stops processing other modules, not surprisingly. On Ubuntu, its a quick fix once the libraries are located, but finding what to do took a while without any information 14:53
timotimo did it hide the output from ld? 15:01
maybe modules should bundle a configure.sh with their stuff, but that's not a thing for windows :\ 15:02
finanalyst No the output was visible, but it took a while to find libatomic-ops-dev, not libatomic_ops-dev
I've solved the problem for myself, but I was wondering where I could put a troubleshooting note for others 15:03
perhaps a general note in a Trouble shooting page?? eg., if zef with an ld error look to install a lib<name>-dev library with the name from -l<name>. Maybe this seems a bit silly, but I've been tripped up by this a couple of times 15:06
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mj41 m: sub foo { my $a = 10, 20; 0; CONTROL { say "CNT: {$_}" }; return }; foo; 15:29
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
CNT: <return control exception>
Useless use of constant integer 0 in sink context (line 1)
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
mj41 m: sub foo { my $a = 10, 20; 0; CONTROL { say "CNT: {$_}" }; }; foo; 15:30
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of constant integer 0 in sink context (line 1)
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
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rindolf3 hi all 15:31
mj41 hi 15:33
I am missing something. IMO it should work.
m: sub foo { my $a = 10, 20; 0; CONTROL { say "CNT: {$_.^name} {$_}" }; return }; foo; 15:36
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
CNT: CX::Return <return control exception>
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
Useless use of constant integer 0 in sink context (line 1)
mj41 m: sub foo { my $a = 10, 20; 0; CONTROL { say "CNT: {$_.^name} {$_}" }; }; foo; 15:37
camelia WARNINGS for <tmp>:
Useless use of constant integer 0 in sink context (line 1)
Useless use of constant integer 20 in sink context (lines 1, 1)
tobs mj41: it seems to work, no?
mj41 nope, it is not catched by my code ... there is not CNT in output 15:38
the first one works for return ... for warning CX::Warn it does not 15:39
tobs ah, I see. Didn't read enough backlog. 15:40
I have no idea if you can catch compiler warnings just like that...
rindolf3 TimToady: hi, there? 15:41
jmerelo TimToady how're you doing! 15:46
discord6 <RaycatWhoDat> .seen TimToady 15:55
tellable6 RaycatWhoDat, I saw TimToady 2019-07-22T20:38:55Z in #perl6-dev: * TimToady had the power company swapping his electric meter, and it broke my / key
discord6 <RaycatWhoDat> doesn't understand 15:56
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finanalyst the perl6 compiler is not working on my Ubuntu system as specified. I installed only rakudo. Then I used zef to install modules, including Pod::To::HTML. I ran `perl6 --doc=HTML somefilewithpod` . This generates the error 'no such method 'render' for invocant of type Pod::To::HTML. P2H module DOES have a multi sub render. 18:02
timotimo could be method vs sub 18:06
moritz finanalyst: what version of rakudo did you install? 18:07
finanalyst This is Rakudo version 2018.12 built on MoarVM version 2018.12
implementing Perl 6.d.
timotimo ouch
finanalyst When I installed perl6 using Rakudo Star, the invocation with --doc=HTML worked. 18:08
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moritz finanalyst: well, that's a pretty old rakudo, and "zef install" depends on the newest version of modules, which might or might not be compatible with old rakudo version 18:09
finanalyst Then I was trying to understand a double call problem, so I deleted Pod::To::HTML and tried to reinstall it. But then the invocation with --doc=HTML failed
moritz finanalyst: if you absolutely want/need such an old version of rakudo, I recommend to install Rakudo Star, because it bundles the modules that worked with the compiler back in the day of the release 18:10
finanalyst So I completely deleted all instances of perl6 and zef, and reinstalled only perl6 and zef, then added other modules.
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finanalyst I have not yet done the next step, viz. delete all instances of perl6 and zef, then reinstall from Rakudo-Star 18:12
Hoping for some help here first
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finanalyst moritz: something very odd with my system!!!! I should have newest version. 18:29
xinming_ What is the best way to do method alias? 18:35
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xinming_ something like, class A { method a { "a".say }; method a-alias { self.a } }; A.new.a-alias; 18:35
m: class A { method a { "a".say }; method a-alias { self.a } }; A.new.a-alias; 18:36
camelia a
xinming_ I feel it's a bit tedious here to write for method a-alias, What if there are several ones needs to be aliased?
SmokeMachine xinming_: there is a module for tha 18:38
tellable6 2019-10-13T06:48:09Z #perl6 <jmerelo> SmokeMachine thanks!
SmokeMachine that
xinming_: modules.perl6.org/dist/Method::Als...:ELIZABETH 18:39
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xinming_ Thanks. :-) 18:52
after we changed perl6 to raku, What will module ext be? 18:53
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timotimo rakumod 19:05
xinming_ I mean the new .pm6 ext 19:06
MasterDuke finanalyst: fwiw, there's a known problem with Pod::To::HTML and/or new rakudos 19:07
xinming_ now we use .pm6, In the future, Do we use rk or rak or rku
sena_kun .rakumod for modules 19:08
xinming_ Ok, So, seems too long
finanalyst MasterDuke: I'm trying to look into that problem. I just realised I had reinstalled the Ubuntu perl6 package, which is OUTOFDATE!!! Now installing the rakudo-pkg 19:09
sena_kun if you are creating thousands of new module files everyday...
AlexDaniel then script it!
sena_kun yes. :)
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AlexDaniel finanalyst: what's the actual version of the out of date one? 19:10
sena_kun I mean, even if you are typing by hands a single filename, 4 more letters (compared to .pm6) are how many fractions of second spent to type it?
finanalyst AlexDaniel: 2018.12
AlexDaniel that's not bad at all 19:11
finanalyst But I thought I had the latest one
Newer version seems to be installing modules much faster
AlexDaniel that's probably true! 19:12
but overall 2018.12 is definitely usable
finanalyst Also the rakudo-pkg has 'raku' as a binary :) So, I've started using it instead of perl6 19:13
AlexDaniel El_Che: your packages are too good 19:14
finanalyst xinming: I had a similar reaction early today when I read the PR about the change of name, viz., use of rakumod/rakudoc/ etc as extensions. But really the three letter extensions are too inflexible for a modern world. 19:15
timotimo let's make it .raku.mod then the extension is only three letters long
AlexDaniel why 19:16
timotimo no, it makes the extension so much shorter
AlexDaniel can't be shorter than zero, no?
timotimo oh!
i didn't see the . there
that's even smarter
moritz but, BUT, what about DOS compatibility? </troll> 19:18
timotimo rakum~1.
AlexDaniel timotimo: or another one: .🦋 (that's one character, right? Right?!) 19:21
timotimo let's look through combining characters and see if we find something nice 19:22
for raku doc we require the user to strike-through every letter of the filename
because nobody reads the docs anyway
AlexDaniel xD 19:23
MasterDuke ha 19:24
finanalyst :) 19:30
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finanalyst AlexDaniel: I just created a PR for Pod::To::HTML. It's a patch that allows perl6 --doc=HTML to work 19:34
but it seems a bit of a hack to me
Grinnz just be glad with raku, the suggestions of dos compatibility are only trolling ;)
AlexDaniel finanalyst: it does look like a hack :D 19:35
finanalyst: I'm surprised it works 19:36
finanalyst AlexDaniel: It works for me locally, but I am wary of my set up at present. 19:37
I'd like to know whether anyone else has problems generating HTML by invoking perl6 with --doc=HTML 19:38
MasterDuke finanalyst: there was some conversation here a couple days ago and several other people had problems with `--doc=HTML` (myself included, i get the error you mentioned) 19:40
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finanalyst MasterDuke: I think I started the convo. Finally, got to look at it. I've hacked Pod::To:HTML to add a method that calls a sub. Then perl6 --doc=HTML works as advertised 19:41
MasterDuke: It seems that render is only called once!!! ???? 19:42
MasterDuke that whole codebase is unknown to me, but i thought there was some concerns about it being called twice? 19:43
sena_kun yes 19:48
finanalyst MasterDuke: I'm trying to figure it out. But with the patch I just put in the PR for P2HTML, the 'render' method is only called once! Whereas for another arbitrary module, it is called twice 19:49
sena_kun MasterDuke, and it is even reproducible with Pod::To::Text...
finanalyst Unless, I've misread the profiler report
MasterDuke huh, odd
leont Is there a clear description of for dependency versions are interpeted? 19:52
finanalyst leont: sorry. "of for" is missing something. You talking about Pod::To::HTML? 19:54
leont Nope, sorry for interrupting that conversation 19:56
Is there a clear description of how version in dependencies in META6.json are interpreted?
Would :ver(0.0.8+) match 0.1.0 or only 0.0.X?
moritz m: say v0.1.0 ~~ v0.0.8+ 20:01
camelia True
moritz leont: I'm not certain, but I'd assume it'd just use the smart-match of the built-in Version objects
MasterDuke docs.perl6.org/type/Version doesn't seem to answer that exact question, but gives some mechanisms for finding out (as moritz++ showed) 20:02
finanalyst MasterDuke: still being called twice, but pod is only rendered once. 20:03
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<RaycatWhoDat> .seen Xliff 20:21
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dinitrofenilhidr hi 20:27
leont Hi 20:28
Your nickname sounds rather explosive ;-) 20:29
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xinming_ Is there a flag to make .perl method pretty the output? 21:06
sena_kun no 21:07
as it is a sub-question of a very complex question of "how to format Perl 6 code"
and people are giving different answers 21:08
xinming_ Ok. :-)
I understand.
sena_kun :)
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xinming_ sena_kun: I've asked a cro::http::client related question in #cro, could you please check? 21:09
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cpan-p6 New module released to CPAN! Path::Finder (0.2.3) by 03LEONT 21:22
New module released to CPAN! LibXML (0.1.4) by 03WARRINGD
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