pugscode.org/ | nopaste: sial.org/pbot/perl6 | pugs: [~] <m oo se> (or rakudo:, kp6:, smop: etc.) || We do Haskell, too | > reverse . show $ foldl1 (*) [1..4] | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/
Set by TimToady on 25 January 2008.
rakudo_svn r25819 | coke++ | [codingstd] 00:16
r25819 | coke++ |
r25819 | coke++ | Update nearly every PIR file in the repository to have the new PIR coda.
r25819 | coke++ |
r25819 | coke++ | Avoids the PIR files that have tests that cruelly depend on their contents.
r25819 | coke++ |
r25819 | coke++ | Only 3 files fail t/codingstd/pir_code_coda.t now. 00:17
pugs_svnbot r19940 | lwall++ | [STD] Missing -> and <-> as EXPR stoppers 01:11
r19940 | lwall++ | [STD] circumfix:<{ }> should also parse pblocks; jonathan++
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/19940
lambdabot Title: Changeset 19940 - Pugs - Trac
meppl good night 02:51
gute nacht
pugs_svnbot r19941 | lwall++ | [STD] some issues noticed by putter++ 04:00
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/19941
lambdabot Title: Changeset 19941 - Pugs - Trac
pugs_svnbot r19942 | lwall++ | [gimme5] more tweakage of tweakage 05:55
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/19942
lambdabot Title: Changeset 19942 - Pugs - Trac
cognominal__ where are the actions correspondint to STD.pm? 09:14
ruoso what does "want" return inside foo for: bar(|foo())? 12:16
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say wants }; sub bar { }; bar(|foo()) 12:17
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** No such subroutine: "&wants"␤ at /tmp/h7pPGmjfy9 line 1, column 18-24␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; sub bar { }; bar(|foo())
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Scalar (Capture)␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; sub bar { }; bar(\foo()) 12:19
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Scalar (Any), LValue␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; my $a = \foo(); 12:21
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Scalar (Any), LValue␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; my @a = \foo();
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Scalar (Any), LValue␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; my @a = foo();
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[List (Any)␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; my ($a,$b) = foo(); 12:22
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[List (Any)␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; my $a, $b = foo();
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[*** ␤ Unexpected " ="␤ expecting "::"␤ Variable "$b" requires predeclaration or explicit package name␤ at /tmp/T5IgnU1yOq line 1, column 35␤]
ruoso pugs: sub foo () { say want }; my $a; my $b; $a, $b = foo(); 12:23
exp_evalbot OUTPUT[Scalar ((mkType "Scalar"))␤]
pugs_svnbot r19943 | ruoso++ | [smop] some more work in p6opaque. but I ve realised that I must change the order in the ROADMAP and implement a lowlevel Method, Attribute, Package and Submethod before implementing p6opaque... 12:45
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/19943
lambdabot Title: Changeset 19943 - Pugs - Trac
ruoso users.ipa.net/~dwighth/smalltalk/by...ltalk.html 13:09
lambdabot Title: Design Principles Behind Smalltalk, tinyurl.com/hog8
ruoso interesting fact that SMOP fits almost perfectly to this paper... 13:10
ruoso "A program should specify only the behavior of objects, not their representation." 13:22
dsadinoff ? 1 + 1 14:41
smtms dsadinoff, hi
dsadinoff oops, I mean to use ?eval. I'm wating the Audrey YAPC::Asia video 14:42
[particle] pugs: 1 + 1
exp_evalbot RESULT[2]
[particle] things have changed a bit since that video 14:43
dsadinoff is there a particular FAQ I should be reading?
Auzon The channel topic :P 14:45
TimToady cognominal__: no, there are no official actions to go with STD yet; the actions will depend on the platform in any case... 15:14
to the extent that there are official actions, they're already inlined closures
ruoso: I think the new want() should be designed only to return the information available, and otherwise be free to say "I don't know". 15:17
I don't want the dispatching slowed down *at all* to make want possible. 15:18
want is rather less important in p6 than in p5, since it was primarily used to deal with an absence of multiple dispatch 15:19
and I'd kill want() without remorse if I thought it was getting in the way of anything important
Juerd want can be nice for a common set up without resorting to macros 15:29
ruoso TimToady, I was having weird thougths on making co-routines to determine the result of want 15:30
ruoso like suspending the execution of that routine until the context is realised 15:30
but maybe that's overkill :P
AndyAway Hey, TimToady, I gave my "Stop saying script" talk this weekend 15:34
and YOU WEREN'T THERE TO REFUTE IT.
hahah
alester Andy 2, Larry 1 15:34
Now, I am the master.
ruoso TimToady, in fact, as overloading and tieing are so much simpler in Perl 6, "want" will not have the same usefullness than it have in Perl 5, I think... 15:35
TimToady ruoso: the problem is that you can't know the exact nature of the data that will be returned until you run that coro, and multiple dispatch may well depend on it 15:44
given that you can't predict the future, you can't have it both ways. :)
ruoso heh..
we may need to program in "negative time" 15:45
heh
TimToady want() is also not going to be backward/foreward compatible as our type inferencers get better 15:45
wolverian I'm sure someone would answer "use static types!" to that 15:46
TimToady well, 42 is a static type, but you still have to return it first... :)
wolverian dependent types? :) 15:47
just put your program in the type level...
ruoso if Perl was completely functional, we could try each possibility ;)
wolverian oh, wait, I'm sure there's a problem here... ;)
TimToady and in fact, want() will destroy any type inferencing inside its scope of effect
(from the view outside)
wolverian righto, I need to be less of an ass :) 15:48
TimToady well, you'll notice I'm actually coming down on the functional side here by de-emphasizing want() :)
want() is a time paradox waiting to happen. :) 15:49
or maybe "waiting to have already happened..."
wolverian use tenses;
TimToady that makes for tense users... 15:50
TimToady if would_have_wanted(42) {...} 15:50
wolverian I wonder what a mathematician would call that 15:52
TimToady "linguistics"
ruoso when I saw Damian's talk I knew it would be usefull somewhere.. ;)
wolverian well, I'm pretty sure you can encode that if you have enough operators :) 15:54
TimToady it's difficult when your operators go recursive and get longer than a DFA can recognize as a longest token... 15:55
already had to deal with that for Perl 6
wolverian my dfa is bigger than yours 15:56
TimToady you can't say [«X«X+X»X»] without declaring your own macro, for instance 15:57
but we do allow both [«X+X»] and [X«+»X] 15:58
wolverian hm, I forgot what XX does
TimToady cartesian cross
wolverian ah, yes
TimToady with an operator
wolverian those make me want to ask perl6 their types 15:59
TimToady just use want() :)
ruoso or would_have_wanted() when you have mmd 16:00
;)
TimToady will_have_wanted
ruoso damian had a prettier phrase 16:01
would_have_already_been_wanted
or something like that
wolverian wanted_in_some_universe(42)
TimToady might've-beens... 16:02
ruoso is there a copy of that talk somewhere? i don't even remember the name of the talk
rakudo_svn r25841 | particle++ | [rakudo][t] clean up lib path in harness 16:03
rakudo_svn r25842 | particle++ | [rakudo][perldoc] add 'see also' text 16:05
rakudo_svn r25843 | particle++ | [rakudo] allow subcalls like 'foo.()' 16:07
moritz_ the logger has been down for some time, it should be up and working again
rakudo_svn r25844 | particle++ | [rakudo] whitespace cleanup
moritz_ the channel index doesn't work yet, but it's going to be fixed 16:09
dlocaus moritz_: Hi! Well, I wanted to break the bad news to the KP6 team, but I got a Job! Well, that's good news for me, but the time it will take out of my life means I pretty much won't be able to work on kp6. I certainly won't be able to put in enough time to keep up with what's going on. 16:35
moritz_ dlocaus: congratulations, nice to hear that you got a job!
dlocaus so, I wanted to thank you guys, I had fun, I hoped I helped out, and I won't forget you guys!
moritz_: yes! I'm happy too 16:36
[particle] dlocaus++
dlocaus It wasn't a perl job, but the perl jobs seam to have dried up
moritz_ although perl 6 is important, real life is much more important most of the time
dlocaus I love perl.
I'm doing php/mysql dba.
For some reason, people are asking for perl programmers but no one is hiring. 16:37
Either I'm not good enough (hardly) or that these HR people are just filling up their boxes (probably).
But, I'll keep an weather eye out. 16:38
[particle] if you want to move, there are perl jobs in seattle
dlocaus I know, but my father is getting old and requires supervision, not constant supervision, but a close eye. 16:39
I'd love to move to Oregon or Washington state, back to America.
Well, you know what I mean.
[particle] ayep 16:40
dlocaus @tell fglock I got the job. I'm sorry, I won't be able to help out any more do to limited time. I would chew up more time trying to find out what is going on, than putting in new coding effort. I'll be checking out some of the smaller projects, or ones that require less time to be putting in effort. Thank you for the chance to help out on the KP6 project. 16:41
lambdabot Consider it noted.
dlocaus @seen pumaris
lambdabot I haven't seen pumaris.
dlocaus @seen pmaris
lambdabot I haven't seen pmaris.
dlocaus @tell pmurias I got a new job. I'm sorry, I won't be able to help out any more do to limited time. I would chew up more time trying to find out what is going on, than putting in new coding effort. I'll be checking out some of the smaller projects, or ones that require less time to be putting in effort. Thank you for the chance to help out on the KP6 project. 16:42
lambdabot Consider it noted.
dlocaus Well, good luck guys, I'll check back from time to time and see how you guys are doing 16:43
rindolf Is Rakudo the new name of mp6 or kp6? 16:44
moritz_ rindolf: the new name for perl6 on parrot
kp6 is still kp6 ;)
cognominal__ what is kp6? :) 17:21
compared to nqp and rakudo (that, I know)
moritz_ kp6 is "KindaPerl6", and is a Perl 6 compiler written in a subset of perl 6 17:23
the most advanced backend is the perl5 one, and ruoso++ is working on a C based backend
pmurias moritz_: ruoso++ is writing a vm for kp6 to run on 17:24
lambdabot pmurias: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it.
moritz_ pmurias: that's another way to put it, yes ;) 17:25
ruoso pmurias, I'm not sure SMOP can be called a VM 17:26
it depends on the definition of what VM is
if you call perl5 a VM, then SMOP is a VM 17:27
moritz_ let's call it a "C based runtime", and everybody's happy ;)
ruoso although "C based" have almost no meaning 17:28
moritz_ "perceived to be fast" ;) 17:30
ruoso he 17:30
heh
moritz_ anyway, gotta go
ciao
ruoso moritz_, you know... ciao is the italian for "Hello"
in portuguese you would need to say tchau 17:31
moritz_ ruoso: "hello" and "bye"
pmurias ruoso: it's a bit of a "create your own interpreter toolkit" 17:33
TimToady @tell mncharity a heads-up: I'm moving the @fate parameter to the front of the arg list so that I can use the variadic part of the list to emulate named args under p5; can't also use variadic for @fate, so now it's a fixed arg 17:41
lambdabot Consider it noted.
[particle] needs grammar help 20:19
token pod_delimited_block {
^^ '=' <.unsp>? 'begin' <.ws> <ident> <pod_option>* \n
.*?
^^ '=' <.unsp>? 'end' <.ws> $<ident> \N*
{*}
}
this captures pod blocks like "=begin foo :w :x\n= :y :z\nblah blah blah\n=end foo" 20:20
however, if i modify .*? to <pod_para> where i have "rule pod_para { .*? }", then pod_delimited_block fails on the same text 20:21
simply replacing ".*?" with <pod_para> makes the match fail. i believe it's a pge bug, but i'm not 100% certain. thoughts? ideas?
PerlJam [particle]: what happens if you use "regex" rather than "rule"? 20:30
[particle] well, even if i change .*? to (.*?) it fails 20:31
PerlJam I mean rules get :sigspace and :ratchet turned on, but that's not what happened in pod_delimieted_block
You're right though that it may be a pge bug. 20:32
[particle] i get 'Null pattern illegal' 20:35
hrmm, no, that might be something else
[particle] yep, that wos something else 20:36
changing rule to regex has no effect
i get an empty result 20:37
rhr_ [particle]: if it's a backtracking problem, you could replace .*? with something like (\N* \n <-[=]> | <-[=]>* '=' \N)* 20:42
or maybe that should be [ <-[=\n]>* [ '=' \N | \n <-[=]> ] ]* 20:46
err [ <-[=\n]>* [ '=' \N | \n <-[=]> ]? ]* 20:48
chris2 what's "bermuda island"?
PerlJam chris2: it's an island in the atlantic ocean
chris2: one vertex of the "bermuda triangle" IIRC 20:49
chris2 it's something perl related from ovid, but google fails on me
[particle] it's also part of a project ('bermuda) that ovid is working on
check use.perl.org/~ovid/journal
chris2 thx. tried to search there but no results 20:51
[particle] rhr_: that didn't help... i guess it's a bug :( 20:56
PerlJam [particle]: is Pm still planning to do the release on Wed? If so, I'm sure you'll see him in the next couple of days :) 20:57
[particle] yes, he is planning that release
i was hoping to get more perldoc support in by then, but it may have to wait 20:58
PerlJam make sure to RT the supposed bug.
[particle] you betcha! 20:59
ludan hi 21:11
ki I AM GOD 21:23
BOW DOWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWN 21:24
HAHAHAHAH
LOL
FBI PLZ
rhr_ [particle]: one more try [ <!before "\n="> . ]* 21:29
[particle] [ <!before ^^ '='> .]*? # works -- rhr_++ 21:31
hrmm, but it's still not capturing it. i got prematurely excited
$<body>=[ <!before ^^ '='> .]*? # doesn't work. 21:32
ki s 21:34
lol r u hackin
Tene hi, ki 21:35
Interested in Perl 6?
ki yes 21:36
oh thats what this channel is
rhr_ [particle]: you may need $<body>=[ [ <!before ^^ '='> .]*? ]
ki sorry i dont get it
Tene ki: what did you think this channel was?
ki peace
i thought it was about collecting sea shells
Tene Oh. No, we're about Perl, the programming language, not Pearls. 21:37
ki lol you guys have patience 21:38
Tene Usually.
ki hey 21:39
do you guys know how i become an irccop
[particle] if we weren't so patient, perl 6 would be done already
ki trudat 21:40
[particle] best to ask that on #freenode 21:42
ki love u guys 21:43
i'll be back
xxx
:)
:D
ki xoxox 21:43
lol
luv u
<3
[particle] *yawns* 21:43
rakudo_svn r25853 | particle++ | [rakudo][perl6doc] extend perl6doc compiler 21:48
r25853 | particle++ | ~ add support for delimited, paragraph, and abbreviated block syntax
r25853 | particle++ | ~ add support for simple pod options (:foo only, not :foo<bar>, :foo(1), :!foo, etc)
pugs_svnbot r19944 | lwall++ | [gimme5] now parses 75% of STD as p5 22:36
diff: dev.pugscode.org/changeset/19944
lambdabot Title: Changeset 19944 - Pugs - Trac
jrockway avar: ping 22:43
avar: i finally tried SLIME
it's awesome. just like programming elisp except CLOS works :) 22:44
avar if you think it's like hacking elisp you're doin it wrong:) 22:56
jrockway: but nice
jrockway: would you be interested in hacking POE::Component::Server::Swank? :)
jrockway C-x C-e <the result appears in the minibuffer>
avar: yes 22:57
i was planning that actually
will probably just use MX::POE though
we need to add docstrings to perl first ;)
avar MX::POE ? 22:58
jrockway MooseX::POE
basically a sugary layer around poe
the idea, i assume, is to have perl-slime, right?
sepia isn't quite right
avar Yes, that
jrockway i like the way slime-based development works
avar I've looked at the protocol and it isn't that complex, especially with a sexp parser (on cpan)
jrockway write a form, send it to the REPL, then play with it 22:59
yup
jrockway set up a git repo and i'll contribute if you start something :) 22:59
jrockway i don't mind handling the emacs end really, i like elisp 22:59
jrockway although, i guess slime is a minor mode.. 22:59
jrockway perl5 + Devel::Declare + Moose + SLIME == lisp with CPAN 23:06
although, you may be interested in my lisp that i'm working on that compiles to perl
and is designed to be "perlish" 23:07
avar will it be a 100 year language?:)
avar jrockway: how would I allow you to commit? I just have anon git:// and ssh:// for write 23:08
i.e. how do people generally do this
jrockway avar: people usually give the committers an ssh account
i used to, but it's too hard to maintain
i'll pull and publish, and then you can pull from my repo whenever you want 23:09
or i'll mail you patch :)
avar mm, distributed++
cognominal__ what is the Item type in Perl 6?
is that anything that is not a junction?
Limbic_Region jrockway - did you see the less than favorable catalyst book review on use.perl ? 23:18
avar Oh crap I'm on the use perl frontpage 23:20
wolverian cognominal__, I don't see Item in S02 23:21
cognominal__ I see it in S29 23:23
subset Matcher of Item | Junction; 23:24
A junction of type is a union of set 23:27
I suppose they are disjoint sets, so my hypothesis
jrockway Limbic_Region: lol :) 23:28
Limbic_Region jrockway - good, I won't attempt to paste the url then ;-)
jrockway hehe
i like how rjbs thinks he's a fucking catalyst expert now 23:29
but whatever :)

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