»ö« | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, alpha:, pugs:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.pugscode.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz_ on 25 June 2010.
00:00 Patterner left, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner
ingy [Coke]: it's true. i'm unruly. 00:02
00:02 kanishka joined
ingy rakudo: say '$foo $bar' 00:03
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«$foo $bar␤»
ingy rakudo: say '$foo $bar'.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO')
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«FOO $bar␤»
ingy rakudo: say '$foo $bar'.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO').subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS') 00:04
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«FOO PASS␤»
kanishka i got error while installing perl6 module 00:05
sorear which one?
kanishka Math-Mode
i got proto and configured the conf file 00:06
ingy how do you type in ␤ 00:07
?
rakudo: say '$foo $bar'␤.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO').subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "say '$foo "␤»
kanishka pastebin.com/fpNqSWFU
ingy why did that fail?
rakudo: say '$foo $bar'.␤subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO').subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS') 00:08
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "say '$foo "␤»
ingy rakudo: say '$foo $bar'.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO')␤.subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "say '$foo "␤»
ingy TimToady: is that a bug?
TimToady ingy: whenever rakudo is confused, feed it to STD instead
ingy thx
std: say '$foo $bar'.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO')␤.subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Method call found where infix expected (omit whitespace?) at /tmp/tPUvFGhabS line 2:␤------> <BOL>⏏.subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')␤ expecting any of:␤ POST␤ infix or meta-infix␤ postfix␤
..postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤Parse failed␤FAILED …
ingy std: say '$foo $bar'.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO').␤subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS') 00:09
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~ at /tmp/YLQeQpCfAP line 2:␤------> <BOL>⏏subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 116m␤»
ingy std: say '$foo $bar'.subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO').subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
ingy grr
TimToady use unspace
ingy did I type in the newline correctly?
TimToady yes
ingy unspace? 00:10
TimToady you can put \ before whitespace to make it not there
std: say '$foo $bar'\ .subst(/'$foo'/, 'FOO')\␤.subst(/'$bar'/, 'PASS')
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 116m␤»
ingy rakudo: say "\␤hello" 00:11
00:11 destiney left
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«␤hello␤» 00:11
TimToady not there
ingy haha
that would be nice
python++
TimToady that would imply multiple pass parsing, which is evil 00:12
00:12 mike joined
ingy huh 00:12
mike rakudo: say "hi"
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«hi␤»
00:13 mike is now known as Guest94307
Guest94307 rakudo: say 5 ~ 1 .. 10 00:13
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«␤»
ingy I think not allowing "foo()␤.bar()" is a turnoff
Guest94307 rakudo: say 0 ~ 1 .. 10
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«01020304050607080910␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: say 0 ~ (1 .. 10)
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«01 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10␤»
ingy that's like, just my opinion, man
TimToady it's perfectly fine for you to have opinions, even bad ones like that 00:14
ingy but that's pretty expected, I'd think
Guest94307 rakudo: say 0 ~~ (1 .. 10)
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«0␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: say 5 ~~ (1 .. 10)
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤» 00:15
Guest94307 rakudo: say 50 ~~ (1 .. 10)
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«0␤»
ingy TimToady: what's more culturally imperialistic than inventing a new programming language? :P
Guest94307 Sorry, guys. Had to check something.
TimToady telling a culturual imperialist he's not culturally imperialistic enough, maybe
ingy :) 00:16
sorear TimToady: What's the difference between FIRST and START?
TimToady there are good reasons for the whitespace rules in Perl 6 involving extensibility
so not allowing extensibility would be more culturally imperialistic
sorear: not much, assuming a loop clones its block every time it starts the loop 00:17
but it's probably good documentation
Guest94307 rakudo: 'goat' ~~ 'cow' .. 'zebra' 00:18
TimToady it's also possible that FIRST and LAST could bubble up to the dynamically enclosing loop somehow
p6eval rakudo c513fb: ( no output )
Guest94307 rakudo: 'm' ~~ 'a' .. 'z'
p6eval rakudo c513fb: ( no output )
TimToady whereas START is only responsive to its own block's recloning
Guest94307: you need a say 00:19
Guest94307 Thanks
rakudo: say 'm' ~~ 'a' .. 'z'
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: say 'goat' ~~ 'cow' .. 'zebra'
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: say 'a' ~~ 'cow' .. 'zebra'
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady rakudo: say '19' ~~ '1' .. '100' 00:21
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«0␤»
Guest94307 Yes!
I'm just preparing a mail on the darn Range operator.
Excuse my language. 00:22
TimToady Ranges now are pretty strictly just intervals, unless you happen to use them in list context 00:23
all the fancy stuff should be done with ...
00:24 felliott left
TimToady it does occur to me that it would be awfully nice if the function of ... could have access to the final value it's aiming for 00:24
Guest94307 Yes. But using something as 'cow' .. 'zebra' in list context shouldn't be possible unless you explicitly specify a domain.
TimToady so we could have "000", &dwim-for-ajs ... "fff" let the function see 'fff' somehow 00:25
sorear What do you call an ordered set with the property that \forall a b. a > b -> \exist c. a > c > b ?
TimToady perhaps as $*ENDPOINT or some such
Guest94307 Over countable. You are talking about strings and real numbers. 00:26
sorear Guest94307: rats too
TimToady um, irrational :)
Guest94307 Those are making the Range operator counterintuitive. 00:27
...in list context.
sorear: sorry, yes.
TimToady
.oO(irrational strings...)
sorear sorry, but you've already proposed surreal Char 00:29
00:29 rgrau_ left
Guest94307 Eh? 00:29
TimToady well, "surreal" precedence, but that's kinda wrongish anyway 00:30
but certainly you can always put new things in the cracks
but we just do it with ordinary strings and use leg semantics 00:31
the trick is leaving room under a particular value as well as over 00:32
Guest94307 I think its better to change the Range operator so it will refuse to try to evaluate 'a' .. 'ant' without the developer explicitly telling it which domain is intended.
Maybe leaving single char ranges as an exception.
00:32 cdarroch left
TimToady well, kinda depends on what the default for 'a' ... 'ant' is 00:35
Guest94307 Currently in Rakudo, its the lexicographical range of chars from 'a' to 'ant' limited to 3 chars in length.
sorear Guest94307: 'a' .. 'ant' is very well defined in scalar context 00:36
TimToady yes, that is a p5ism
he was just talking about list context
Guest94307 sorear: didn't consider that. What is the result then?
TimToady makes a Range object 00:37
tylercurtis rakudo: ('a'..'ant').perl.say
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«"a".."ant"␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $r = 'a' .. 'ant'; say 'ab' ~~ $r
Guest94307 :)
sorear a range object is just an interval
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear it makes sense in any totally ordered domain 00:38
tylercurtis rakudo: .say for 'a' .. 'ant'
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«a␤»
sorear coercing a range to a list only makes sense in countable discrete domains
like Int
and Char
tylercurtis Ah. Did not know that.
Guest94307 Yes. I totally agree. This is what I'd like Range to do.
sorear rakudo: say 'aardvark' ~~ 'a' .. 'ant' 00:39
Guest94307 Unless you provide your own countable domain.
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤»
Guest94307 Duh^^
Because
sorear perl6: { say "a"; START { say "b" }; say "c" } # S04 is unclear on whether this makes bac or abc
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«a␤Could not find sub &START␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/xqU9QIJ584␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«a␤b␤c␤»
TimToady which Str++ kinda does, it's just that it's not the same order as leg 00:40
sorear: abc is the intent
sorear ok
TimToady so it is unlike FIRST in that regard
it's really more like say "b" unless $didit++ 00:41
and, in fact, you can provide it based entirely on state vars
rakudo: say "b" unless (state $)++ 00:42
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Contextual $*GOAL not found␤»
TimToady except rakudo can't parse anonyvars yet
rakudo: say "b" unless (state $x)++
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/QzCIityU4N:20)␤»
TimToady or state, apparently...
Guest94307 rakudo: say 5.1 ~~ 1.1 .. 9.101 00:43
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: say 9.2 ~~ 1.1 .. 9.101
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«0␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: say 9 ~~ 1.1 .. 9.101
TimToady rakudo: state $x
tylercurtis rakudo: sub foo () { state $x; $x++; } say foo; say foo;
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤»
rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/qoMeqEBDnh:20)␤»
rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "sub foo ()"␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: sub foo () { state $x; $x++; }; say foo; say foo; 00:44
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$x' not predeclared in foo (/tmp/_Vqeh_j9R_:20)␤»
TimToady that's really kind of a bad bug
std: sub foo () { state $x; $x++; }; say foo; say foo;
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 115m␤»
TimToady alpha: sub foo () { state $x; $x++; }; say foo; say foo; 00:45
Guest94307 rakudo: .say for(<1 2 3>)
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value␤␤1␤»
rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: .say for(1 .. 3)
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: .say for(1.1 .. 9.1)
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«1.1␤2.1␤3.1␤4.1␤5.1␤6.1␤7.1␤8.1␤9.1␤»
TimToady um
std: .say for(1.1 .. 9.1) 00:46
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row (method call requires colon or parens to take arguments) at /tmp/IeQniXpOc7 line 1:␤------> .say ⏏for(1.1 .. 9.1)␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤
..statement_mod…
TimToady error message is LTA, but for requires ws in STD
00:46 gbacon left
TimToady std: .say for (1.1 .. 9.1) 00:46
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 114m␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: if(1) { say "This shouldn't happen, either." }
TimToady std: .say for 1.1 .. 9.1
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«This shouldn't happen, either.␤»
std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
TimToady std: if(1) { say "This shouldn't happen, either." } 00:47
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Word 'if' interpreted as 'if()' function call; please use whitespace instead of parens at /tmp/bSCj_jFlKQ line 1:␤------> if⏏(1) { say "This shouldn't happen, either␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row) at
../tmp/bS…
lue why not?
TimToady ^^^
tylercurtis rakudo: if 0 { say "Doesn't happen."; } elsif(1) { say "This is correctly incorrect, iirc." }
p6eval rakudo c513fb: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "if 0 { say"␤»
TimToady std: sub if {...}; if(1) 00:48
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
lue ah.
TimToady except terrible location
std: if 0 { say "Doesn't happen."; } elsif(1) { say "This is correctly incorrect, iirc." }
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/4RRbPNV31O line 1:␤------> if 0 { say "Doesn't happen."; }⏏ elsif(1) { say "This is correctly incor␤ expecting statement_control␤Parse failed␤FAILED
..00:…
TimToady at least that's closer
lue should there be a semicolon between } and elsif ? 00:49
TimToady no, it's just guessing, hence the ? 00:50
dalek ok: 1f44d57 | chromatic++ | src/subs-n-sigs.pod:
Edited subs-n-sigs chapter for flow.
tylercurtis lue: iiuc, foo(...) is always postcircumfix:<( )>. Whereas foo (...) is circumfix:<( )>.
TimToady it's the same rule ingy was carping about 00:51
postfixes never take ws
if there is ws, it can't be a postfix
beyond that, we force identifier() to always be a function call
even in spots where it doesn't quite make sense, like 42 for(1) 00:52
we just don't want people to get used to writing non-functions that look like functions
tylercurtis std: say -5\␤.abs
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: say -5\␤.abs
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«-5␤» 00:53
TimToady .abs binds tighter
even across unspace
tylercurtis I was just verifying that Rakudo understands unspace. 00:54
TimToady though I've actually considered making unspace put an implicit () around the left arg
but it's never quite seemed worth it to get a precedence relaxer like that, when () is only one more char
so we still have to say (^5).foo 00:56
sorear does state $x = ... create a scope? 00:57
Juerd IIRC the scope is lexical 00:58
ingy carp carp 00:59
Just finished a heavy refactor of ufo. github.com/masak/ufo/blob/master/ufo
Guest94307 rakudo: .say for( 1 .. 10 :by 2)
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near ".say for( "␤»
ingy much more * now!
Guest94307 std: .say for( 1 .. 10 :by 2)
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at /tmp/umS82gRaoT line 1:␤------> .say ⏏for( 1 .. 10 :by 2)␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤ statement_mod_loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
Guest94307 std: .say for( 1 .. 10)
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row (method call requires colon or parens to take arguments) at /tmp/D7QoZRtF2w line 1:␤------> .say ⏏for( 1 .. 10)␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ statement modifier loop␤
..statement_mod_l…
Guest94307 rakudo: .say for 1 .. 10 01:00
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
Guest94307 rakudo: .say for 1 .. 10 :by 2
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near ".say for 1"␤»
Guest94307 std: .say for 1 .. 10 :by 2
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/wT74Uxs2vo line 1:␤------> .say for 1 .. 10 :by ⏏2␤ expecting any of:␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
Guest94307 std: .say for 1 .. 10
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
Guest94307 pugs: .say for 1 .. 10 01:01
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1␤2␤3␤4␤5␤6␤7␤8␤9␤10␤»
Guest94307 pugs: .say for 1 .. 10 :by 2
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected ":by"␤ expecting operator␤ at /tmp/th7yTSUNIj line 1, column 18␤»
TimToady sorear: it doesn't create a scope any more than 'my' does, it just persists for the clone
Guest94307: :by is long gone, and it would be :by(2) in any case 01:02
sorear TimToady: I'm mostly thinking abould blasty stuff and the START desugar
TimToady :by is a standalone term meaning :by(True)
Guest94307 I can see that in the spec. Thanks.
TimToady all :by semantics were taken over by the ... operator 01:03
tylercurtis pugs: my %h; %h<foo> = 5; say %h<foo>; %h<foo> :delete; say %h<foo>;
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected ":delete"␤ expecting operator␤ at /tmp/xHbKwOMbMQ line 1, column 42␤»
Guest94307 TimToady: yes. I have been away from Perl6 for a while. I can see that now. 01:04
TimToady START should desugar to (state $)//=1 or some such, and the $ is an anonymous state var in the current lexical scope
if there were another $ it would be a different var in the same scope
std: my $
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 112m␤»
TimToady rakudo: my $
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Malformed my at line 20, near "$"␤»
TimToady rakudo: state 42 01:05
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &state␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/O9BI2_qNOh␤»
TimToady two strikes on rakudo
alpha: say ++(state $) 01:06
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«Malformed declaration at line 10, near "$)"␤in Main (file <unknown>, line <unknown>)␤»
TimToady alpha: say ++(state $x)
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady at least alpha knew 'state'
pugs: say ++(state $)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "$)"␤ expecting "=", formal parameter, context, ":" or "("␤ at /tmp/1zpwm2Muoa line 1, column 14␤»
TimToady pugs: say ++(state $x)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady so a state $x = func() really entails two states, one for $x, and one for the implicit STATE block 01:07
START even 01:08
rakudo: say "foo"; START { say "bar" }; say "baz" 01:09
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«foo␤Could not find sub &START␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/8oaU4o_y3V␤»
01:09 kanishka left
TimToady alpha: say "foo"; START { say "bar" }; say "baz" 01:10
p6eval alpha 30e0ed: OUTPUT«foo␤bar␤baz␤»
TimToady that's correct
sorear: the reason for those semantics is state $x = $a + $b could depend on calculations earlier in the block
sorear does $::CURLEX == $::UNIT make sense?> 01:11
TimToady yes, that's asking if the currently compiling scope is the outermost of the compilation unit
well, assuming == is the right way to compare refs :) 01:12
but the :: sez yer in p5
tylercurtis Should one refrain from submitting "bug reports" for things that are known to be NYI? e.g. state? 01:15
TimToady it was YI in alpha, so don't refrain 01:20
jnthn Feel free to make a ticket for state. 01:26
alpha had a great impl of state variables. :-/
jnthn wonders how much he can just copy over 01:27
Will try during the weekend. :-) 01:31
It'd be nice to have that in for R*. 01:32
TimToady maybe it could be moritz_'s next challenge though
though he's mostly tried to avoid PIR-based challenges 01:33
jnthn Trouble is, it not only needs to PIR (or at least Parrot-y) skills, but also PAST and NQP 01:35
Which is quite a big ask.
Thankfully, less and less of Rakudo is being written in PIR these days, though. 01:36
lue > my $a = 3; my $b = $a; say $a =:= $b 01:37
1
(.WHERE is a cruddy way to check if things were bound)
tylercurtis My first rakudobug. :)
jnthn I wonder if it ends up operating on the thingy in the container rather than the container. Probably. 01:38
lue: eq_addr may be better
tylercurtis rakudo: my $a = "foo"; my $b = $a; say $a =:= $b
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«0␤»
jnthn I fear that the way binding happens in Rakudo means it's not quite trivial...
01:39 WH0RE joined
lue rakudo: my $a = 3; my $b = $a; say "{$a.WHERE} — {$b.WHERE}" 01:40
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«35233952 — 35233952␤»
lue that's why its a problem :/
Well, the parameters are (Mu \$a, Mu \$b) # is that a boo-boo? :) 01:41
jnthn no, that's what they should be 01:43
TimToady the problem is that =:= should really be more like VAR($x) === VAR($y) 01:45
where VAR fails on a value
jnthn I don't recall VAR being spec'd as failing on a value.
lue but macros don't exist yet :(
jnthn But rather being identity on it.
jnthn checks S...12? 01:46
C<VAR> is a no-op on a non-scalar variables and values:
VAR(1); # 1 VAR(@x); # @x
TimToady hmm, I don't think I wrote that part, or if I did, I was confused
jnthn :-)
TimToady anyway, =:= shouldn't work on non-bindable things, methinks, just if we can see if two containers are the same container 01:48
jnthn *nod*
TimToady is tempted to remove =:= entirely if people are going to misuse it 01:49
dinner &
sorear jnthn: 1.VAR is probably never going to return 1 in niecza 01:50
at least, not legitimately 01:51
in niecza, 1.VAR returns something which is ~~ Variable, returns 1 from .container.FETCH, returns True from .readonly 01:53
or something like that 01:54
I need to work out the semantics of VAR with TimToady later
(but I'm absolutely convinced that the underlying data model I'm using is the right one)
tylercurtis What's the Perl 6 equivalent of Common Lisp's "eq"? In other words, reference equality. You have two objects and you want to know if they have the same address. 01:56
sorear $x.WHERE === $y.WHERE 01:58
jnthn sorear: Is Variable spec? 01:59
tylercurtis rakudo: say 5.WHERE === 5.WHERE
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«0␤»
sorear jnthn: no, but its interface is (partially)
jnthn sorear: I see .VAR as a macro that gives you something that makes a scalar container not delegate its methods.
(to the things it's holding) 02:00
Er, methods called on it I mean
sorear tylercurtis: === is defined to be value equality on immutable types like Int and reference equality on everything else
tylercurtis rakudo: my $a = 5; my $b = $a; say $a.WHERE === $b.WHERE; #lue: does this do what you want?
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear tylercurtis: it's what you probably want
jnthn: S** talkes about VAR($x).readonly. In niecza, a container doesn't know if it's readonly
my $a = 1; my $b ::= $a; # $a and $b share the same Scalar object 02:01
02:01 Guest94307 left
tylercurtis interesting, "5.WHERE !=== 5.WHERE" but "my $a = 5; my $b = $a; $a.WHERE === $b.WHERE", in Rakudo at least. 02:02
sorear tylercurtis: each mention of 5 gives you a new Num object 02:03
tylercurtis: fixing that is your job, o high optimization hacker
lue problem is, === is also a cheat, like =:= currently is. 02:05
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TimToady === is supposed to be $a.WHICH eqv $a.WHICH 02:10
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lue I just don't trust things in the cheats/ folder. They're cheats! :) 02:10
rakudo: my $a = 3; my $b = $a; say "{$a.WHICH}, {$b.WHICH}" 02:11
TimToady they should be optimized away by the cheater, er, the optimizer
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«3, 3␤»
TimToady .WHICH is identity for value types
and .WHERE for object types 02:12
tylercurtis sorear: "fixing" that sounds fragile in Parrot. If you only have one Num object for 5 and you use any of the vtables that modify it; then everyone who thinks they have a Num 5 of their own suddenly has a Num 6. 02:14
jnthn tylercurtis: I'm not sure Rakudo uses Parrot that way. 02:15
TimToady which is why value types should generally be considered immutable
jnthn tylercurtis: That said, I'm unsure whether Rakudo will use any of Rakudo's Integer/Float etc PMCs after I do my meta-model work.
.oO( at this rate I'll have most parts of a VM out of the bits I replaced )
 02:16
TimToady maybe the most generic repr role should be named Turtle
jnthn :D 02:17
TimToady: Still beating my branes up over how do handle the lowest level bits of the meta-model. 02:18
*to
Including the REPR stuff
TimToady well, do it just like Moose except where it's wrong :)
jnthn Aye, but Moose relies on Perl 5 for at least some bits. 02:19
TimToady that's where it's wrong :P
badump bumb
*bump
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TimToady aha, that part of S12 was written by audreyt++ 02:22
pugs: say Var(1) 02:23
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such subroutine: "&Var"␤ at /tmp/hmbv2uXf3d line 1, column 5 - line 2, column 1␤»
TimToady pugs: say VAR(1)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady just a don't-deref hint
have to tell if something is bindable some other way, if VAR works like that 02:24
jnthn Or change how VAR works :-)
I can't imagine many folks are depending on its meaning.
TimToady esp since rakudo doesn't implement it 02:25
jnthn alpha had a hacky attempt
Current Rakudo won't get one back until I'm happy I can do it "properly" 02:26
TimToady but if VAR($x) === VAR($y) can be made to do the same as =:=, I might just throw out =:= as an attractive nuisance
cute though it is
jnthn *nod* 02:27
TimToady now thinks about replacing VAR with prefix:<:=>
jnthn But that implies it probably means to do something on @x, %y etc
...prefix:<:=>?! 02:28
TimToady thought you'd like that... :)
jnthn chokes a little on his pivo
lue :=$a 02:37
looks nice, and forces good whitespacing \o/ 02:38
.oO(postcircumfix:<:= =:>)
 02:45
jnthn rakudo: sub circumfix:<:= =:>($foo) { say "lol $foo"; }; :=42=: 02:46
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near ":=42=:"␤» 02:47
jnthn :/
lue circumfix doesn't work yet :(
jnthn lue: It kinda does.
lue [afaik]
jnthn rakudo: sub circumfix:<` `>($foo) { say "lol $foo"; }; `42`
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«lol 42␤»
jnthn It's just *very* picky about what bracketing chars you can choose. 02:48
lue rakudo: sub prefix:<:=>($a) { VAR($a) }; my $b = 3; say :=$b
jnthn Probably because I did something rong, or LTM-ish reasons.
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &VAR␤ in 'prefix:<:=>' at line 20:/tmp/kRwOaP5bzj␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/kRwOaP5bzj␤»
tylercurtis sub circumfix:<:= =:>($foo) { note 'NEVER EVER DO THIS!'; exit 1; }
02:53 WH0RE left
TimToady actually, I think that's still a bug in STD... 02:54
lue afk
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<` `>($foo) { say "lol $foo"; }; `42` 02:55
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«unhandled meta : at RE_ast.pm line 402.␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<:= =:>($foo) { say "lol $foo"; }; :=42=:
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«unhandled meta : at RE_ast.pm line 402.␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
jnthn TimToady: Rakudo mostly runs into issues when there's a prefix operator with the same char as the opener for the circumfix. 02:57
TimToady: e.g. in the RT ticket somewhat wanted to do a sub circumfix:<| |>($n) { abs($n) }; say |-1| 02:58
TimToady well, that one's just not gonna fly, if you want to keep prefix:<|>
jnthn Right
I guessed it wouldn't in STD either. 02:59
What I thought *should* work is like
TimToady not without there's some way to combine the two so they know about each other, and where to expect the final |
jnthn rakudo: sub circumfix:<|| ||>($n) { abs($n) }; say ||-1||
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "say ||-1||"␤»
jnthn And it'd beat prefix:<|> on LTM
TimToady we have prefix:<||> too
jnthn (because || is a longer token)
...we do?
TimToady interpolate slice 03:00
jnthn I don't think Rakudo knows that one though and it still barfs.
But OK, bad example.
Anyway, my point was that choosing good circumfixes is potentially quiet hard.
TimToady indeed
jnthn OK, well, I'll be interested when STD does it, how well it and Rakudo match up on what flies and what doesn't. 03:02
TimToady STD did used to work on non-identical chars 03:04
std: sub circumfix:<〘 〙>($foo) { say "lol $foo"; }; 〘42〙 03:05
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«unhandled meta : at RE_ast.pm line 402.␤FAILED 00:01 114m␤»
TimToady that's a minor regression for which I gladly trade all of sorear++'s upgrades :) 03:06
jnthn *nod*
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jnthn meh, it's 5:20am and I'm not even that tired. :S 03:17
sorear I recommend VAR not be standardized until I have a chance to warp it into my personal views.
jnthn +1, apart from I want an opportunity to do the same :-) 03:18
It may be one of those macros where the implementation has a choice of what to do though.
(e.g. like the representation API) 03:19
dalek ecza: 11f549b | sorear++ | (2 files):
Move slot logic into Decl
 03:23
ecza: 649b221 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Implement START phaser
jnthn -> rest, or an elongated keyboard break, anyways
03:28 ab5tract left
dalek ok: 5a8c3de | chromatic++ | src/grammars.pod:
Edited grammars chapter for clarity.
 03:35
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tylercurtis Am I correct in understanding that "{*} #= something" is no longer the proper way to do what it does in Perl 6 regexes? 03:41
Tene That's right. 03:54
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tylercurtis And a token with <?> as its body is the proper way? 03:56
TimToady generally if you think you need to do that, you should decompose your rules better 04:10
also, we just stole the {*} syntax for proto calls into their multis 04:13
sorear generally speaking you should try to keep rules under 15 lines or so 04:14
longer rules are very annoying to write actions for
TimToady well, I don't do arbitrary limits, but organically speaking, if something doesn't have a name that you need to have a name, that's pretty indicative 04:15
there's some kind of a general principle here, related to looking for stack frames that have certain characteristics rather than counting them 04:16
so it would be good if FIRST and LAST knew how to find their innermost enclosing loop in the same way that next and last can
rather than assuming that it must be the same as OUTER 04:17
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TimToady or $?BLOCK, or whatever the accurate way to say that is when I'm awaker 04:17
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tylercurtis TimToady, sorear: I'm trying to keep the basic structure of the Squaak tutorial analogous as I update it. So, currently, the TOP rule calls its action twice. The first time, it supplies the key 'open', and initializes $?BLOCK and @?BLOCK package variables that will be used in actions lower in the parse tree(to add lexicals to the current block's symbol table and such). Later it makes the topmost block. 04:29
I'm going to, for now at least, just replace that with a token begin_TOP { <?> } whose action does that initialization.
TimToady that's fine too, or you can write begin_TOP as a real method in real Perl 6 04:32
or just inline the init code in a {...} block
whatever works 04:33
04:46 envi^home left 04:51 Chillance left 05:00 pmurias joined 05:04 tylercurtis left 05:05 tylercurtis joined
ingy greetings 05:18
05:42 cognominal joined, cognominal left 05:53 Mowah joined 06:00 ashleydev joined
pugssvn r31739 | lwall++ | [STDeco] implement circumfix categoricals correctly (I hope) 06:11
r31739 | 1) by deriving the unbalanced lang for the <stopper> inside (duh)
r31739 | 2) by checking <!stopper> at the start of a statement (also duh)
TimToady and just for the record, it was *not* a regression caused by sorear++'s work in any way; I'd just never finished it right 06:12
pmurias TimToady: what tests should STD-0.02 run on installation? 06:18
ingy rakudo: say "xxx".subst(/x/g, 'i') 06:20
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of /g; in Perl 6 please use :g at line 20, near ", 'i')"␤»
ingy rakudo: say "xxx".subst(m:g/x/, 'i')
dalek ecza: 8f73f31 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Implement calls to subroutine references
ecza: bd10167 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Implement the 'state' declarator
ecza: 2879d62 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Implement implicit START semantics for state initializers
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 20␤»
TimToady pmurias: well, compiling itself is the most important test
pmurias how should it do that?
ingy rakudo: say "xxx".subst(m/x/, 'i') 06:21
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«ixx␤»
ingy rakudo: say "xxx".subst(m:g/x/, 'i')
TimToady have a copy of STD.pm6 and see if it parses, I suppose
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 20␤»
snarkyboojum rakudo: say "xxx".subst(m/x/, 'i', :g)
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«iii␤»
ingy thx
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moritz_ good morning 06:23
pmurias TimToady: would checking if that copy parses something simple be a good idea?
06:24 ashleydev left
TimToady maybe, dunno how much of the infrastructure used by, say 'make snaptest' is included in your dist 06:24
ingy rakudo: say "O'Reilly".subst(/"'"/, "''") 06:28
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«O''Reilly␤»
sorear I think I'll pass on first/last for now 06:30
have to let yapsi stay better at /something/
TimToady first/last is not necessary for niecza * :) 06:31
moritz_ rakudo: sub f() is foo { }
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any
..:rw($rw)…
06:31 tylercurtis left
moritz_ std: class A { has method x() { } } 06:33
p6eval std 31738: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
ingy moritz_: did you catch my note from earlier?
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has method x() { } }
ingy: yes
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: ( no output )
sorear TimToady: nie ;) 06:38
TimToady is 'ie' in czech pronounced like it is in deutsch? 06:40
ingy moritz_: just found/fixed a buglet in ufo 06:42
moritz_ git pulls 06:43
ingy moritz_: have you seen my work? sexy! github.com/masak/ufo/blob/master/ufo
sorear it has been determined that masak screwed up and mentally amalgamated czech and slovak while naming niecza
which means that there isn't actually a correct pronounciation
I'm ok with that
moritz_ ingy: it would be sexy if ufo emitted proper dependencies for the modules, so that 'make -j' works 06:44
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<⦃ ⦄> ($x) { say $x }; ⦃ 42 ⦄
p6eval std 31739: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<` `> ($x) { say $x }; `42`
p6eval std 31739: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤» 06:45
TimToady hmm
std: sub postcircumfix:<⦃ ⦄> ($x) { say $x }; $_⦃ 42 ⦄ 06:46
p6eval std 31739: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
TimToady \o/ never tested postcircumfix
ingy moritz_: the only code left in ufo is to order the SOURCES. I think that ufo should just be a util that reads module path names on stdin, and sorts them in its order onto stdout. The Makefile then, as it stands, could be totally static. 06:48
06:49 pmurias left
moritz_ having it read from STDIN doesn't sound very easy for the user 06:51
ingy moritz_: disconnect... nevermind... 06:53
I'm bascially just saying that ufo is not really needed at all, at this point. A static Makefile would do fine. It's already a hair from that. 06:54
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<｢ ｣> ($x) { say $x }; ｢42｣
p6eval std 31739: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 124m␤»
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<| |> ($x) { say $x }; |42| 06:55
p6eval std 31739: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Bogus term at /tmp/c36uf7dOGE line 1 (EOF):␤------> ub circumfix:<| |> ($x) { say $x }; |42|⏏<EOL>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
ingy but I like the ufo usage meme just fine for now anyway
TimToady std: sub circumfix:<| |> ($x) { say $x }; |42|;
p6eval std 31739: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Bogus term at /tmp/irsNgQz94d line 1:␤------> ub circumfix:<| |> ($x) { say $x }; |42|⏏;␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady that should really take precedence over prefix:<|> by the 'most derived' rule, S05:46 06:57
but I don't think we have that PEG disambiguator yet
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ingy rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map { flip } 07:04
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "say [ 'foo"␤»
ingy rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ flip }).perl 07:05
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'flip'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu ;; *%_)␤␤ in <anon> at line 20:/tmp/7xa9RwiVPK␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in 'List::perl' at line 2517:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/7xa9RwiVPK␤»
ingy rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ upper }).perl
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &upper␤ in <anon> at line 20:/tmp/IRO7KuSb4V␤ in 'Any::join' at line 1␤ in 'List::perl' at line 2517:CORE.setting␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/IRO7KuSb4V␤»
TimToady nothing defaults to $_, use .flip or .uc
ingy rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ .uc }).perl 07:06
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«("FOO", "BAR")␤»
TimToady rakudo: say <foo bar>.map: *.flip
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«oofrab␤»
ingy rakudo: say ( 'foo', 'bar' ).map({ .uc }).perl 07:07
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«("FOO", "BAR")␤»
ingy rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ .flip }).perl
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«("oof", "rab")␤»
TimToady rakudo: say <foo bar>».map({.uc}).perl
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«(("FOO"), ("BAR"))␤»
TimToady rakudo: say <foo bar>».uc.perl 07:08
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«("FOO", "BAR")␤»
ingy I'm just trying to learn map, TimToady
thanks though
rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ .flip }).array.perl 07:09
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Method 'array' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/fQ9LCIWXVp␤»
ingy rakudo: say [ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ .flip }).Array.perl
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Method 'Array' not found for invocant of class 'List'␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/tqgZNF4P6J␤» 07:10
ingy meh
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moritz_ [...] constructs an array 07:10
TimToady .Array should probably have worked
ingy rakudo: say [[ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ .flip })].perl
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«["oof", "rab"]␤»
ingy that would be nice I think
moritz_ rakudo leaks memory like a leaky couldron
ingy moritz_: someday rakudo will leak memory like an airtight couldron 07:11
rakudo: say substr("ingy", 1, 2) 07:14
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«ng␤»
ingy rakudo: say substr(("ingy", 1, 2))
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'substr'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu : Any $start, Any $length?;; *%_)␤␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/sVtxiJzBTH␤»
ingy rakudo: say substr(|("ingy", 1, 2))
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«ng␤»
ingy \o/ 07:15
rakudo: say [[ 'foo', 'bar' ].map({ flip($_) })].perl 07:16
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«["oof", "rab"]␤»
sorear TimToady: I'm thinking of providing more extensive system interfacing in niecza, but also being able to switch it off hard for moritz_. To me this seems to call for implementing conditional compilation. Thoughts? 07:19
TimToady conditional compilation is usually the wrong solution, if it can be done more modularly by just swapping in different files 07:20
dalek ecza: bdea4d8 | sorear++ | (2 files):
Implement a system of body types
 07:21
ecza: 9fac9e9 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Don't clone mainline pads

more useful, but it also seems to help with optimization prospects a great deal as well. A pad which belongs to a mainline (defined recursively below) will not be deeply cloned; any variable in it at runtime aliases the same variable at compile time. UNIT is a mainline. Any statement-level bare block contained in a mainline is itself a mainline. Any package definition in a mainline is itself a mainline.
TimToady if you just want to turn off some well-formed code, if CONSTANT should eventually optimizeit away if the constant is known false 07:22
ingy how do I test if a value is a Str
TimToady ~~ Str 07:23
ingy what about a Foo::Bar?
instance
same deal?
TimToady any type
ingy rakudo: class Foo {}; Foo.new ~~ Foo 07:24
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: ( no output )
ingy rakudo: class Foo {}; say Foo.new ~~ Foo
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady rakudo: say [] ~~ Array
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
ingy :P
TimToady rakudo: say [] ~~ Positional
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady rakudo: say [] ~~ Any
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
sorear TimToady: it's more a case of, I want to remove access to all but a small whitelisted set of external calls at the code generator level, but a few setting functions will be broken by that 07:25
and the setting is always a single file?
TimToady not necessarily
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TimToady but if you're running essentially a different language, you want it declared differently somehow 07:26
rakudo: subset Something of Any where +*; say [] ~~ Something 07:27
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady rakudo: subset Something of Any where +*; say [0] ~~ Something
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
TimToady gotta crash 07:29
zzz &
pmurias sorear: if adding a secure mode you could also try adding security by using a sandbox mode of the .NET vm 07:30
sorear: mono appears to have something like that: www.mono-project.com/MonoSandbox
sorear mono --help says (unsupported) in large friendly letters 07:31
pmurias why is it unsupported? 07:32
they use it for moonlight so it should work correctly 07:33
sorear from the .NET exception best practices: * Use grammatically correct error messages
moritz_ :-)
sorear MonoSandbox doesn't say anything on how to enable the sandbox 07:39
--security=core-clr looks like it mgiht be what I want 07:53
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ingy rakudo: say "x" !~ /y/ 08:04
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of !~ to do negated pattern matching; in Perl 6 please use !~~ at line 20, near "/y/"␤»
ingy rakudo: say "x" !~~ /y/ 08:05
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1␤»
moritz_ rakudo++ # awesome error message
ingy oui
rakudo++
I'm zzzzz all'y'all. o/ 08:07
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sorear moritz_: I just discovered that I can cut 1.5-2s of niecza run time by running sudo mono --aot -O=all,-shared against gmcs.exe and dependencies thereof (strace -efile gmcs /r:Setting.dll Program.cs 2>&1 | grep 'so"') 08:17
sorear wonders if he's going to pay for this eventually 08:18
pragma_ fgetsA 08:19
pmurias sorear: if you keep an unmodified mono to tests for compability the price shouldn't be too high 08:20
* compability checking 08:21
08:23 eternaleye left
sorear lazily -> stefan@stefans:/usr/local/lib/mono$ find . -name '*.exe' -o -name '*.dll' | perl -ne 'chomp; system("sudo","mono","--aot","-O=all,-shared",$_)' 2>&1 | tee /tmp/aot.log 08:39
aftward, I have <1s turnaround in the REPL 08:40
even though I'm still shelling out to the C# compiler for my code generation 08:41
dalek ecza: abf4863 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Make NIECZA_TRACE a runtime, not compile time, check. Small performance loss.
 08:46
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sorear pmichaud: ping 08:52
or anyone. 09:01
I think I get Parcel - it's a lazy list of values which are 1. not contextualized 2. bound rw 09:02
Seq is a Parcel which binds stuff 'is copy' (and also ro)
Array contextualizes, containing only stuff with the scalar-nature, is copy and rw 09:03
... I don't get where List fits in.
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moritz_ like an Array, but not modifyable 09:09
TiMBuS rakudo: my $a = sub{'hello'}; $a.wrap: {callsame ~ 'world'}; $a().say
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«hello␤»
sorear moritz_: is that the same as "like Seq, but forcing item context on elements"? 09:10
TiMBuS rakudo: my $a = sub{'world'} $a.wrap: {'hello' ~ callsame}; $a().say
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 20, near "my $a = su"␤»
TiMBuS rakudo: my $a = sub{'world'}; $a.wrap: {'hello' ~ callsame}; $a().say 09:11
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«helloworld␤»
TiMBuS :/ 09:12
moritz_ what's :/ about it?
TiMBuS is that expected behaviour? 09:15
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moritz_ what? 09:15
the parse error? yes 09:16
TiMBuS (callsame ~ 'world') returns 'hello' but ('hello' ~ callsame) returns 'helloworld'
moritz_ callsame ~ 'world' is the same as callsame(~'world'), which is the same as callsame('word') 09:17
s/rd/rld/
you probably want callsame() ~ 'world'
sorear moritz_: is List = Seq but with item context on elements? 09:18
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moritz_ sorear: I'm not sure... ask pmichaud, he should know :-) 09:19
sorear Well, it sounds good. :) I can always change it later
TiMBuS ah i see. well if thats the case, can callsame take arguments?
sorear In: for $*IN.lines { .say }
What allows the memory to be freed? 09:20
moritz_ TiMBuS: I think it shouldn't
sorear I'm guessing some shifty business with Lists?
moritz_ sorear: pmichaud mumbled something about immutable iterators/cursors
sorear: there were lots of discussions when pmichaud worked on the 'list' branch... have fun backlogging :-) 09:24
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sorear hah. 09:30
niecza: sub VAR($x) { Q:CgOp { (newscalar (getfield container (getfield lv (l $x)))) } }; say VAR(1) 09:31
p6eval niecza: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unrecognized quote modifier: CgOp at (eval) line 1:␤------> sub VAR($x) { Q⏏:CgOp { (newscalar (getfield container (␤Check failed␤»
sorear doesn't even work locally. :/ 09:33
sorear out. 09:45
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pugssvn r31740 | pmurias++ | [mildew] rename Types to Mildew::Types 10:02
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sorear finds a very simple way to drastically simplify niecza's object model 10:56
I hereby declare that it is illegal to augment any class defined inside a loop or subroutine.
If your loops or subroutines are so big that they contain classes that need to be defined in multiple pieces, you're doing something wrong anyway. 10:57
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sorear also, such a class cannot be declared 'our' for much the same reasons 11:34
moritz_ I think it's a sane-ish restriction :-) 11:38
\o/ my resonance curves (with Math::Model) look fine 11:40
sorear grr. this {YOU_ARE_HERE} change is suprisingly inconvenient for niecza
because for @foo {YOU_ARE_HERE}, class Cow {YOU_ARE_HERE}, etc are suddenly valid syntax 11:41
and my data structures are completely unprepared to handle a compilation unit being a loop block or class body 11:42
moritz_ std: for 1, 2 {YOU_ARE_HERE}
p6eval std 31740: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value $file in substitution (s///) at CursorBase.pm line 362.␤ok 00:01 117m␤»
sorear maybe I'll just cheat and treat {YOU_ARE_HERE} as {{YOU_ARE_HERE}}
so you won't be able to use FIRST/LAST/has in UNIT 11:43
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sorear Also, because of the need to emulate MI at compose time in some environments, I suspect it may be erroneous to augment a class with subclasses. 11:56
This restriction, however, will NOT be implemented in niecza. Yet.
dalek ecza: 0d75b53 | sorear++ | (3 files):
Update to latest STD

code blocks. Not sure how best to fix this.		 11:59
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jnthn sorear: actually it's Polish spelling of a masing together of Czech words, so far as I can tell. :-) Let's just call it "Generic West Slavic". :-) 13:49
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TimToady jnthn: I just want to know how to pronounce it 14:41
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TimToady sorear: why should it matter whether augment occurs in a loop? everything important in an augment is supposed to be done by declarations, not run-time code 14:53
most augments will execute a null statement list at DO time
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TimToady if you have to simplify by restricting augment in loop, I submit that you should be simplifying some other way instead, mebbe 14:55
jnthn TimToady: The "ie" in nie is a diphthong. The cz is a digraph for č, like the "ch" in "chocolate"" 14:56
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TimToady I figgered the ch, but wondered if the ie was diphthong or not. thanks 14:56
jnthn TimToady: Also the n is palatalized. 14:58
TimToady sorear: List does not enforce any context; only binding enforces context
I also figgered that as an alternate way of thinking of the ie, this being slavic :) 14:59
sorear: and maybe you can compile UNIT as a you would a thunk, so that it borrows the lexical scope from the YOU_ARE_HERE, which is must know before it compiles, or there's no setting 15:04
jnthn TimToady: Ah, no, the "i" is not just a "palatalize this" indicator. In Slovak, "ne" (a prefix for negating verbs, e.g. mam => nemam) and "nie" ("no" but also used to negate the verb "to be", and stands as a separate word e.g. "je" => "nie je") have distinct sounds. The "n" is palatalized in both cases.
TimToady ss/is must/it must/ 15:05
k 15:06
sorear: and for the same reason, 'our class' in a loop should be No Problem 15:07
all declarational aspects of classes should be done at compile time, not run time, including composition 15:08
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TimToady at DO phase, 'our class' just looks like 'our package', with whatever statements weren't declarations as the only executing code, often nothing at all 15:09
and 'our' things really live in the global space, with only a name in the lexical scope, so that only thing that could be cloned is the name lookup itself 15:13
jnthn Rakudo ends up building two blocks essentially, one containing the compilation of the declarations and the other containing the none-declarative bits. 15:14
*non
TimToady the first of those blocks is the one I was referring to when I muttered about BEGIN time, and was taken to mean that the second block runs at BEGIN time, which is not so 15:15
jnthn *nod*
TimToady and I assume part of rakudo's problem is trying to defer various BEGIN-time bits to INIT time. :) 15:16
and then things happen out of order
so basically you have to run the BEGIN at BEGIN time and emulate its state with yet a third "block" that runs at INIT time, it seems from here 15:17
rather than the freeze/restore of proto-state we've discussed from time to time 15:18
maybe someday parrot will support that...
jnthn TimToady: Even if we take Parrot out of the equation for a moment and imagine we can have a runtime that can do such things. We still have the problem that in, say, class Foo { method bar { self.foo }; method foo { } }, if we want to optimize that call on self then we need to really have composed the class, but that means the compilation of the method bodies can't have taken place at that point. 15:22
It's almost as if we want to construct the "shape" of the class as we parse it, and then fill in the methods later on. 15:23
TimToady I don't follow that at all 15:24
the methods are at least compiled down to AST immediately; optimization and code generation can always be lazy 15:25
jnthn TimToady: Oh, I agree about them going to AST immediately. 15:26
TimToady: It's just that the optimizer at some level wants to have the meta-class to hand.
TimToady which should be to hand during compilation 15:27
jnthn TimToady: Do you envision that when we parse a declaration like method foo() { } in a class body, we immediately call add_method on a meta-object? 15:28
TimToady 'has' should be telling the meta-class something at its BEGIN time
a {...} stub, if necessary, to be filled in later with real code 15:30
jnthn Right, so I'm not crazy to be thinking such things as "stub and fill in later". :-)
TimToady that's the way all declarations work in Perl 6, pretty much
jnthn That's largely what I was trying to ask.
TimToady names are always entered into their namespace immediately 15:31
so declarations can be self-referential
jnthn TimToady: Essentially, we need to generally not be maintaining compile-time and runtime versions of things separately?
TimToady std: class NewName { has NewName $.x } # would be an error unless NewName entered immediately 15:32
p6eval std 31740: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 113m␤»
jnthn Sure, but the Rakudo answer to that is to look in the namespace *and* in some state that the compiler is keeping.
TimToady 'need to' is a bit to strong
*too
it's just very error prone to maintain parallel engines 15:33
jnthn OK.
So more of a trade-off.
TimToady when I say "namespace" I never mean "package", unless I do
jnthn :-) 15:34
TimToady when I say namespace I mean, hopefully, the proto namespace the compiler is using that will turn into a real namespace
where namespace could be the metaobject, or the lexical scope, or a pad
s/pad/package 15:35
jnthn *nod*
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jnthn I probably really need to fathom serializability into the meta-model stuff I work on. 15:35
TimToady I really hope I'm not going to have to invent a new word for "namespace" because parrot made it only mean "package"... 15:36
frettled Metaspace :=) 15:37
jnthn TimToady: Maybe I need a type Package that we use in Rakudo for everything rather than Parrot's NameSpace type. ;-)
TimToady anything with a Hash-like api is a kind of namespace
so maybe Association :) 15:38
frettled jnthn: PackageSpace
jnthn ;-)
TimToady I mean Association for Namespace, not for rakudo packages
jnthn TimToady: fwiw, Parrot also calls its captures call signatures. 15:39
TimToady: Which is probably a source of great fun for anyone trying to understand the Rakudo binder.
TimToady: Thankfully, that confusion hasn't leaked into #perl6-land :-) 15:40
tylercurtis AssociaNamePackative
TimToady \o/
jnthn Then we'd just never talk about them because it's too much effort to type. :-)
jnthn afk for a little bit 15:41
tylercurtis jnthn: Good point.
phenny: tell masak I have an idea(thanks to jnthn++) for fixing your complaints about people's discussions about DateTime/Temporal on p6l. Rename DateTime to DaTimporYeaMonthSecDayHourMinal. No one will ever talk about it again because it's too much effort to type. 15:45
phenny tylercurtis: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
frettled :) 15:46
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masak oh hai, #perl6! 16:22
phenny masak: 15:45Z <tylercurtis> tell masak I have an idea(thanks to jnthn++) for fixing your complaints about people's discussions about DateTime/Temporal on p6l. Rename DateTime to DaTimporYeaMonthSecDayHourMinal. No one will ever talk about it again because it's too much effort to type.
masak tylercurtis: I like the way you're thinking.
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TiMBuS jnthn, i saw you fixed up wrap. an even more fixed fix is to change !wrap_clholder_helper so it handles .CONTROL_RETURN instead of return type '58', so nextsame and nextwith also work.. 16:26
masak actually, I'm not really too grumpy about people talking about DateTime et al. it's when they propose new levels of abstraction without regard for simple use cases, and without writing Actual Code to back up their theories that I get a bit testy. 16:27
jnthn TiMBuS: I only half fixed up wrap. :-) 16:34
TiMBuS: Yes, that may well be sane. Thanks. :-)
o/ masak
masak jnthn: \o 16:37
today I will fix one half of the Buf/IO trouble, and draft up my 10th anniversary blog post for y'all to read. 16:38
TiMBuS yay i helped! \:3/
while im in routine.pir, would make more sense to make .assuming clone the current sub, then change $!do to the assuming_helper, so as to hide the ugly 'assuming_helper' name when it gets printed in the repl? 16:43
jnthn TiMBuS: That could well work. Feel free to try. ;-) 16:45
jnthn -> nomshop
masak ingy: nice refactor. MAIN looks really neat now. 16:46
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masak nom & 16:59
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TimToady rakudo: say ^10 X~ (^10 X~ ^10) 17:10
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: ( no output )
TimToady "cannot resume dead coroutine"
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TimToady rakudo: say [X~] ['a'..'z'] xx 2 17:19
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«aa ab ac ad ae af ag ah ai aj ak al am an ao ap aq ar as at au av aw ax ay az ba bb bc bd be bf bg bh bi bj bk bl bm bn bo bp bq br bs bt bu bv bw bx by bz ca cb cc cd ce cf cg ch ci cj ck cl cm cn co cp cq cr cs ct cu cv cw cx cy cz da db dc dd de df dg dh di dj dk dl dm dn
..do dp …
TimToady doesn't work for 3 though
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TimToady rakudo: say [X~] [0..9, 'a'..'f'] xx 2 17:23
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«00 01 02 03 04 05 06 07 08 09 0a 0b 0c 0d 0e 0f 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1a 1b 1c 1d 1e 1f 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 2a 2b 2c 2d 2e 2f 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 3a 3b 3c 3d 3e 3f 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 4a 4b 4c 4d 4e 4f 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 5a 5b
..5c 5d …
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sorear TimToady: If List doesn't enforce any context, how does it differ from Parcel? 17:41
09:53 <@TimToady> most augments will execute a null statement list at DO time
TimToady: exactly.
TimToady: what I've done is to ban augments which require non-null DO-time code
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diakopter sorear: there is a bug that prevents the full --aot of all dlls that come with mono, but I see you worked around it nicely; good job 18:26
TimToady sorear: Lists are mutable, Parcels are not 18:28
if you don't allow DO code in what is essentially a package block, it's not really Perl 6
Lists are mutable containers for a sequence of immutable iterator cursors 18:29
sorear you mean, like, .shift? 18:34
loop { class A { method b { 0 }; }; if rand < 1/3 { my $x = rand; augment class A { method b { 1 + $x }; }; }; if rand < 1/3 { my $x = rand; augment class A { method b { 2 + $x }; }; }; say A.new.b } # What is the distribution of this? 18:36
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ingy greetings 18:42
sorear hello.
ingy hi sorear
sorear pings TimToady
TimToady the augments always happen regardless of their run-time context, so you only end up with the final method b (or augment carps about the collision because you didn't supersede the method) 18:44
the augments happen at compile time 18:45
only that final $x cares about its run-time context 18:46
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TimToady and since the method declaration is really taking the closure at compile time and poking it into the meta-object, I'd say even $x is bound only to the protopad, and is always undefined in this example 19:01
to do anything else at run time requires playing directly with the meta object 19:02
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TimToady declarative syntax is supposed to act declarative, and I don't see cloning of method bodies as important enough to shove a bunch of semantics into the run-time, with possible adverse effects on optimizability 19:06
lunch & 19:07
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masak I have an anniversary blog post draft for tomorrow about 3/4-ready. anyone want to read it and comment? 20:43
tylercurtis masak: if you'll read and comment a draft of a request for people to get involved with Parrot by helping with updating the Squaak tutorial, I will. :) 20:47
masak tylercurtis: I will.
URL?
tylercurtis masak: perlmonks.org/?viewmode=public;node_id=846756
masak reads
tylercurtis masak: URL to yours? 20:48
masak hey; I can't both proof-read yours and make a gist of mine. :)
hold on. :)
tylercurtis: gist.github.com/479846 20:49
ingy hi masak
masak ingy: hi! 20:50
tylercurtis: ss/The Squaak tutorial is a tutorial for creating/The Squaak tutorial aims to create/
ingy masak: i saw u saw etc. good stuff.
masak oh wait. that doesn't work with the later stuff in the sentence. 20:51
tylercurtis: what I wanted to do was avoid the repetition of 'tutorial'.
ingy is there a 'seen' bot here? 20:52
masak tylercurtis: s/PGE(/PGE (/
ingy: buubot. but it doesn't work so well.
buubot: seen ingy
buubot masak: I don't think I've seen ingy.
masak see? :)
ingy heh
buubot: seen yourself lately? 20:53
buubot ingy: I don't think I've seen yourself.
masak tylercurtis: hm, generally, add a space before '('
ingy buubot: seen myself lately?
buubot ingy: I don't think I've seen myself.
masak ingy: you were here during the Pugs days. I'd be happy to hear your comments on my characterization of them, gist'd above. 20:54
I've also pinged @audreyt and @orwant on Twitter. both are kinda Twitter tortoises, so it's not clear they will have time to react before I go live tomorrow. 20:55
tylercurtis: "it would be much better if someone can" -> "...could" 20:56
tylercurtis: otherwise; looks good!
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jnthn masak: explanation</a>, 21:02
comma not needed
(in first paragraph)
masak fixes
ah. it was a fossil. thanks.
tylercurtis masak: I don't really know anything about the historical information of it, only recently becoming at all involved with Parrot or Perl 6, but it seems to have your usual wonderful mixture of entertainment and information. Also, s/Exigeses/Exegeses/, I think, and chromatic msged you via purl in #parrot with the same correction, so I'm probably right. :) 21:03
masak right, "Exegeses". thanks.
does chromatic have a spy bot in this channel? :) 21:04
jnthn masak: "dynamickest" :-D 21:07
masak jnthn: might lose that one in a subsequent review :P
jnthn masak: It's cute. "most dynamic" is correct. "dynamicest" looks righter and wronger at the same time... :-) 21:08
masak somehow true to the Perl 6 lingo/terminology. :)
it's also a bit of an autopun.
jnthn frightingly => frighteningly 21:09
masak fixed, thanks. 21:10
ingy rakudo: sub xxx() { say $_ }; xxx 'O HAI' 21:11
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Too many positional parameters passed; got 1 but expected 0␤ in 'xxx' at line 20:/tmp/Lt8E0GV653␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/Lt8E0GV653␤»
ingy rakudo: sub xxx($s) { say $s }; xxx 'O HAI'
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«O HAI␤»
ingy sweet
XXX.pm forthcoming
tadzik see your data in nude?
ingy bareword_functions++ 21:12
tadzik: :D
tadzik yeah, that's your thing :)
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masak "warning: must be above $some-age to see the data!" 21:13
jnthn masak: Looks good
masak: I guess more to come?
masak jnthn: yes. writing Rakudo section now.
ingy tadzik: github.com/ingydotnet/xxx-pm6 -- See Your Perl 6 Data in the Nude
tadzik coming! :) 21:14
masak jnthn: Rakudo history is harder to get a grip on, because I'm not outside of it as with Pugs...
ingy putting yaml-pm6 t good use.
*to
ingy <3 pugs 21:15
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tylercurtis masak: I'm replacing "The Squaak tutorial" with "Squaak" in the sentence you mentioned and correcting the other things you mentioned. I'm probably not going to wait and get more feedback (unless anything wants to read it over right now and provide feedback) given the time-sensitivity of it, so thanks a lot for looking at it. :) 21:28
masak tylercurtis: you're welcome. thanks for looking at my draft.
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ingy is there a p6 equiv of Carp::confess? 21:32
masak dying with stacktrace is the default.
ingy masak: oh right. is there a terse die? 21:33
masak not that I know :/
all that seems clear is that the `die "error message\n"` pattern is below the standards of Perl 6. 21:34
so something else is needed.
ingy masak: warn "error"; exit 1;
warn gives a line #
masak note "error";
exit 1;
ingy what is note? 21:35
masak &warn throws an exception which can be caught.
&note doesn't.
ingy k
so note is a print to stderr?
masak in other words, $*OUT:$*ERR::say:note
ingy: what masak said. 21:36
ingy masak: I never understand masak. Please explain what he said.
masak ingy: a:b::c:d is a nifty syntax meaning "a is to b as c is to d". 21:37
masak can't help it; he likes to speak in terse riddle-like utterances. :)
if it's any consolation, sometimes I don't understand him either... 21:38
ingy :)
so one difference
warn prints a line number
note don't
masak and warn gets caught in CATCH nets. note doesn't. 21:39
trust me, that's the important difference :)
tylercurtis rakudo: note 'foo $?LINE';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«foo $?LINE␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: note "foo $?LINE";
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?LINE' not predeclared in <anonymous> (/tmp/69HeMARcsQ:20)␤» 21:40
ingy :P
masak tylercurtis: NYI 21:41
ingy rakudo: sub foo {␤say $?LINE;␤}␤foo;
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Symbol '$?LINE' not predeclared in foo (/tmp/nupulGIw0c:21)␤»
ingy rakudo: sub foo {␤say $*LINE;␤}␤foo; 21:42
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: ( no output )
tylercurtis Anyone want to provide some last-minute feedback on perlmonks.org/?viewmode=public;node_id=846756 before I post it?
ingy rakudo: warn 1; say 2; 21:43
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1 at line 20:/tmp/O2TOCh0zHA␤2␤»
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tylercurtis rakudo: warn 1; say 2; CATCH { note 'Nope, you don't get to say.'; } 21:43
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 20␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: warn 1; say 2; CATCH { note 'Nope, you don\'t get to say.'; } 21:44
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Nope, you don't get to say.␤»
sbp .gc +blockoid
phenny +blockoid: 211
sbp does everybody in #perl6 have a keybinding for U+2424? :-) 21:46
tylercurtis .u 2424
phenny U+2424 SYMBOL FOR NEWLINE (␤)
tylercurtis doesn't. 21:47
ingy I thought Test.pm has a use_ok 21:48
rakudo: use Test; BEGIN { plan 1 }; ok 'foo'; 21:49
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find sub &plan␤»
ingy what's up with that?
rakudo: use Test; plan 1; ok 'foo';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤ok 1 - ␤» 21:50
ingy I guess BEGIN scope does not share with its outer scope?
actually
tylercurtis rakudo might not do need/import at BEGIN time properly.
ingy rakudo: use Test; BEGIN { Test::plan(1) }; ok 'foo';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Can not find sub Test::plan␤»
ingy :'( 21:51
If I'm testing whether a module loads, I want to run my plan first 21:52
I guess I'll have to string eval the use
how do I know if a string eval failed?
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tylercurtis rakudo: BEGIN { use Test; plan(1); }; ok 'foo'; 21:52
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤Could not find sub &ok␤ in main program body at line 20:/tmp/rNNnHuNq7W␤» 21:53
tylercurtis rakudo: use Test; BEGIN { use Test; plan(1); }; ok 'foo';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤ok 1 - ␤»
ingy rakudo: use Test; plan 1; use Bad; ok 'Bad is ok'
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Bad' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ lib␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval//p1/lib/parrot/2.5.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
ingy tylercurtis: nice
tylercurtis rakudo: use Test; plan 1; lives_ok { use Bad; }, 'Bad is ok.'; 21:54
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Bad' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ lib␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval//p1/lib/parrot/2.5.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
ingy rakudo: use Test; BEGIN { use Test; plan 1 }; use Bad; ok 'Bad is ok'
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤===SORRY!===␤Unable to find module 'Bad' in the @*INC directories.␤(@*INC contains:␤ lib␤ /home/p6eval/.perl6/lib␤ /home/p6eval//p1/lib/parrot/2.5.0-devel/languages/perl6/lib␤ .)␤»
ingy tylercurtis: that executes 'use' too early
tylercurtis rakudo: use Test; plan 1; lives_ok "use Bad; ", 'Bad is ok.'; 21:55
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤not ok 1 - Bad is ok.␤# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1␤»
ingy that's nice
what is lives_ok?
tylercurtis rakudo: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok "use Bad; ", 'Bad is ok.';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤not ok 1 - Bad is ok.␤# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1␤» 21:56
tylercurtis ingy: you want eval_lives_ok. lives_ok is for closures. 21:58
ingy rakudo: use Test; plan 1; eval_lives_ok "use Test; ", 'Test is ok.';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤ok 1 - Test is ok.␤»
ingy rakudo: use Test; plan 1; lives_ok "use Test; ", 'Test is ok.';
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«1..1␤not ok 1 - Test is ok.␤# Looks like you failed 1 tests of 1␤»
tylercurtis If you do lives_ok "some str", it does 'try { "some str"(); }', which will never live unless someone adds a postcircumfix:<( )> to Str (please don't, someone). 21:59
masak jnthn: Rakudo part written. gist.github.com/479846 22:01
ingy XXX.pm is alive, and waiting to die for you! github.com/ingydotnet/xxx-pm6/blob/...lib/XXX.pm 22:05
tylercurtis perlmonks.org/?node_id=850115 posted it on perlmonks.
masak ingy: nice. 22:06
ingy: feedback: I didn't knwo about XXX on CPAN before now. maybe provide a bit more information in the README? :) 22:07
sorear ingy: Rakudo has a bit of batch-compiler nature currently and runs all BEGIN blocks before submitting the rest of the program to the interpreter 22:10
ingy: so BEGIN can't see anything outside it
ingy masak: done and attributed :) 22:12
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ingy sorear: is that a Rakudo bug? 22:12
Perl 5 is the same, but use statements count as BEGIN blocks 22:13
masak ingy: nice.
ingy: if you like the listop form better, why do you use the parens in the README? 22:14
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ingy masak: listop wasn't working for me :) 22:14
maybe I goofed it up 22:15
sorear perl6: sub foo () { say "Hi" }; BEGIN { foo }
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Could not find sub &foo␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«Hi␤»
sorear (yes)
jnthn masak: reading :-)
sorear BEGIN blocks in Rakudo can't even see each other, because the scope they are mutually embedded in is created at CHECK time 22:16
22:16 ive left
sorear real Perl 6 is supposed to build scopes at BEGIN time 22:16
pugs is much closer to the spec on this part
jnthn It's kinda easier to get right if you're interpreting rather than compiling with the expectation of running the compiled output later. 22:17
ingy masak: I think I know... maybe
rakudo: sub XXX($s) { say $s.perl }; my @x = (1,2); XXX @x; 22:18
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«[1, 2]␤»
ingy hmm
maybe export messes with listop? 22:19
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ingy masak: can you try installing XXX and listopping? 22:19
masak ingy: sure thing.
jnthn masak: looks nice 22:21
masak: They story about how I got sucked in is not quite accurate though. :-)
masak jnthn: please give a correct version :) 22:22
jnthn masak: It was actually junctions I promised to implement. It wasn't until I set about trying to do that task that I realized that junctions needed multi-dispatch to do properly, multi dispatch needed the type system, and that involves doing a bunch of the work on OO first.
masak: It was a kind of dependency explosion. :-)
masak hah :)
I'll try to express that somehow. 22:23
I also want to add more examples of Perl 6 culture during the silver age.
if anyone has a memorable snippet from the IRC logs from the past two-three years, I'd be happy to hear about it.
masak greps the logs for "lol" :) 22:24
jnthn
.oO( grep irclog 'masak submits rakudo bug' | wc -l )
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masak jnthn: I'm up to about 900, I think. 22:25
tylercurtis masak: is that for this month or this week? 22:26
masak tylercurtis: :P
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ingy how do I count the number of newlines in a string? 22:33
jnthn +$str.comb("\n") 22:35
ingy thx 22:36
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masak ooh, that's cute. 22:39
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ingy hey, I just found a problem in my parser that only happens when a keyword begins with a 't' 22:43
actually all leading 't's are ignored
sound familiar?
masak no.
sorear yes.
masak ingy: golf and evalbot, please?
ingy my rakudo's a few days old
masak well, we had that with Q. 22:44
but not t.
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ingy rakudo: say "testml".match(/[a-z][a-zA-Z]*/).perl 22:45
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 20␤»
ingy ?
masak std: say "testml".match(/[a-z][a-zA-Z]*/).perl
p6eval std 31740: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Invalid regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/4doHEfMysP line 1:␤------> say "testml".match(/[a-⏏z][a-zA-Z]*/).perl␤Invalid regex metacharacter (must be quoted to match literally) at /tmp/4doHEfMysP line
..1:…
ingy oh
rakudo: say "testml".match(/<[a-z]><[a-zA-Z]>*/).perl 22:46
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Obsolete use of hyphen in enumerated character class;in Perl 6 please use .. instead at line 20, near "z]><[a-zA-"␤»
masak ingy: when Rakudo gets confused, try feeding through STD. :)
ingy rakudo: say "testml".match(/<[a..z]><[a..zA..Z]>*/).perl
p6eval rakudo dd8d5d: OUTPUT«Match.new(␤ # WARNING: this is not working perl code␤ # and for debugging purposes only␤ from => 0,␤ orig => "testml",␤ to => 6,␤)␤» 22:47
masak there you go.
expected result.
ingy upgrades...
bbl
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lue ohai o/ 22:53
sorear TimToady: After my $c = class { our $x = 42 }; is $x accessible in any way? 22:56
22:59 whiteknight left
jnthn sorear: It'd guess C.WHO<$x> or some such 23:10
er
$c.WHO<$x>
23:20 whiteknight joined
masak yay, audreyt proof-reads my draft \o/ 23:25
23:35 am0c left 23:36 synth] joined 23:38 synth left 23:47 au|irc joined
au|irc masak: tiny grammar nit: s/Pugs still existed/Pugs still exists/ 23:48
but otherwise very accurate and personal and authentic and nice :)
masak au|irc: got it. fixing.
oh, and while I have you on the line... :)
hugme: hug au|irc
hugme hugs au|irc
au|irc :)
hugme: hug hugme 23:49
hugme hugs hugme
masak au|irc: thank you for Pugs. it was a blast.
sorear hugs au|irc
au|irc masak: np at all. and thank y'all for being there :) 23:50
masak hm, I cannot just change it to "Pugs still exists" since I'm writing in past tense. would "Pugs was (and is) still around" work?
au|irc sure
masak fixes 23:51
ideally, I'd like to run this through pmichaud++ as well. but I'm not sure it's worth disturbing him on his vacation.
au|irc masak: and I'd like to translate that announcement to chinese, as I did for pmichaud's reply-to-an-anonymouse-monk
if you're ok with it, that is
masak au|irc: that'd be awesome. 23:52
I will try to read it, and it'll take days. :)
au|irc maybe I'll make it extra difficult for you by translating fragments from "Larry is a Mariner" too
and interleaving the prose with the poetry :-)
sorear cannot fathom how pugs could be blamed for Perl 6 being late
au|irc it's more of a community dynamics thing... the haskell community didn't get cabal going until 2 years later 23:53
sorear doesn't not having a wroking implementation make things take /longer/?
masak au|irc: 现在我说一点儿中文 :)
au|irc and a hs without cabal is like perl4 without cpan
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au|irc it didn't quite make modular collaboration easy 23:53
sorear mm
I was there-ish when cabal was coming up 23:54
masak without Pugs, Perl 6 might have been an abandoned effort by now.
sorear I was one of the old guard, very annoyed that Haskell was trying to turn into the next Java :D
au|irc you were! I remember hacking hacked with SyntaxNinja on the very first version of cabal-install
sorear mm. memories. 23:55
masak wait, you two know each other? that explains a lot. :P
sorear funny how long 3 years can seem
au|irc it's internet time :)
sorear masak: 2007-2008 #1 active human on #haskell
masak yipes.
sorear I didn't really care much about Perl back then. 23:56
4, 5, or 6
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au|irc so haskell didn't turn into another java, and lambdacamels became λӝ... it all works out! 23:57
masak \ӝ/
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