»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend! | Rakudo Star Released!
Set by diakopter on 6 September 2010.
00:01 Trashlord left, ggoebel left 00:02 Trashlord joined 00:10 am0c left 00:17 ggoebel joined 00:18 jaldhar joined 00:32 ggoebel left
colomon Util: still there? 00:35
00:35 lidden joined 00:36 impious left, ggoebel joined 00:58 QinGW joined
colomon Util: you've now got a commit bit for Math-Polynomial. And I really think we should have Math-Quaterion too, hint, hint. ;) 00:59
Util++
01:00 Chat4949 joined 01:01 Chat4949 left 01:07 plobsing joined 01:15 dnl left 01:19 ggoebel left 01:23 ggoebel joined 01:27 Chat2257 joined 01:28 Chat2257 left, dnl joined 01:29 Chillance left 01:32 starcoder left 01:33 starcoder joined 01:34 ggoebel left 01:36 Trashlord left 01:37 Trashlord joined 01:40 ggoebel joined 01:56 dnl left 01:57 dnl joined 02:00 nadim left 02:01 cdarroch_ joined 02:02 cdarroch left 02:11 _twitch joined 02:13 whiteknight left 02:22 agentzh joined 02:24 dnl left
lue ololiblog: rdstar.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/co...ack-ready/ 02:26
02:27 lidden left
lue phenny: tell masak I've made a post that talks about the adventure game and Tardis: rdstar.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/co...ack-ready/ 02:27
phenny lue: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
02:31 cdarroch_ left 03:02 Maerten joined
Maerten somebody say something 03:03
:| 03:04
colomon something
Maerten woww
the first reaction on this stupid app 03:05
:p
are you using a blackberry??
colomon no, I'm a regular chatter on the perl 6 chat you have stumbled across. 03:06
Another couple days of this and we will kill the person who wrote that app.
Maerten ok.. what is this perl 6 about??
colomon But you're welcome in the meantime. :)
It's a programming language. 03:07
one which is still under heavy development.
Maerten ok ok
colomon this channel is primarily for discussing the various programs that implement the language, and designing the language itself.
Maerten okay 03:08
so this chat app just ruines the chatbox
colomon rakudo: say (1, 1, *+* ... * > 1000).perl
p6eval rakudo 142d22: OUTPUT«(1, 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89, 144, 233, 377, 610, 987, 1597)␤»
03:09 Limbic_Region left
colomon it doesn't ruin it, but it does lead to regular visits from people who have no idea what we are talking about. :) 03:09
03:09 drbean_ joined
Maerten well excuse me for interrupting, good luck with the programming 03:09
colomon no worries, we know it's not your fault!
03:10 Maerten left 03:13 drbean left 03:23 kanishka joined 03:36 dukeleto left, dukeleto joined 03:41 orafu left, buubot left 03:42 am0c joined 03:45 flatwhatson left 03:49 buubot joined 04:00 satyavvd joined 04:07 HarryS left 04:10 HarryS joined, flatwhatson joined 04:18 meraxes left, meraxes joined 04:28 dukeleto left, dukeleto joined 04:29 [particle]1 joined 04:31 [particle] left 04:42 envi left 05:08 mee joined 05:09 lestrrat left 05:10 lestrrat joined 05:11 starcoder left, LionMadeOfLions left 05:13 starcoder joined 05:14 LionMadeOfLions joined 05:23 _twitch left
sorear GOOD * #PERL6 05:24
lucs sorear: Every time you do that, I think "Good grief, Charlie Brown!" :) 05:25
sorear phenny: msg daxim The tool you are looking for is called dynamic programming. the classical example for this is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change-making_problem 05:44
05:45 silug left
sorear phenny? 05:48
phenny: tell daxim The tool you are looking for is called dynamic programming. the classical example for this is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change-making_problem
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when daxim is around.
06:01 _kaare joined 06:08 dalek left 06:10 aindilis left 06:15 am0c left 06:22 starcoder left 06:24 starcoder joined
sorear phenny: tell masak You misspelled China and Kleisli in your blog. 06:27
phenny sorear: I'll pass that on when masak is around.
06:31 xabbu42 joined 06:36 kanishka left 06:37 meppl joined 06:40 mee left 07:26 xabbu42 left 07:37 masak joined
masak good morning, #perl6! 07:37
phenny masak: 02:27Z <lue> tell masak I've made a post that talks about the adventure game and Tardis: rdstar.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/co...ack-ready/
masak: 06:27Z <sorear> tell masak You misspelled China and Kleisli in your blog.
07:37 xabbu42 joined
masak sorear: so I did. making another 7-minute run. :) thank you. 07:37
masak backlogs 07:38
rakudo: my @a = 1,2; my @b = 3,4; (@a,@b) := @b,@a; say ~@a; say ~@b 07:43
p6eval rakudo 142d22: OUTPUT«1 2␤3 4␤»
masak submits rakudobug
07:44 xabbu42 left
masak <TimToady> looks like the bind has turned into a no-op somehow 07:44
rakudo: my $a = 42; my $b := $a; say $b 07:45
p6eval rakudo 142d22: OUTPUT«42␤»
sorear the := operator in Rakudo is implemented in a deliberately wrong way. Be grateful if it works, don't complain too much if it doesn't
masak I'm not complaining; I'm submitting a rakudobug. 07:46
sorear implementing := correctly would require an extra layer of indirection on all variable references
masak yes.
I have a few blog posts about that.
huh; re-rendering all the HTML of my blog now takes 8m18.500s. 07:48
sorear If you put it on github or otherwise make it public I'll use it as an example of real world performance code 07:50
cxreg how about a layer of misdirection? 07:51
masak sorear: I will put it on github, soonish. but for it to be used as real-world performance code, one'd have to use a frozen dataset. 07:52
07:53 envi joined
masak lue++ # rdstar.wordpress.com/2010/11/04/co...ack-ready/ 07:53
hotel breakfast & 07:55
07:55 masak left, PacoLinux left, Eevee left
cxreg i think i was the one who first suggested that the operators be the enemies ;) 07:55
its a wicked cool idea though
08:08 nadim joined
sorear I am starting to dislike the implicit flattening in *@foo 08:08
Flattening is something that only happens when a list is iterated 08:09
sub flat(\|@parcel) { gather for @parcel { take $_ } }
github-- # has taken to randomly logging me out. It didn't do this at all for the first ~year 08:13
08:19 xabbu42 joined 08:21 kcwu left
sorear github++ # I take that back, deleting insecure sessions is nothing to complain about 08:24
08:40 wtw joined 08:43 cjk101010 joined 08:51 timbunce joined, timbunce left, timbunce_ joined
jnthn morning 09:07
sorear hello jnthn
sorear has his tuits back finally
moritz_ wonders if they are round 09:08
jnthn No such luck on tuits here. :( 09:14
Hopefully on Friday. Or at the weekend. :)
09:17 jferrero joined 09:35 dakkar joined
sorear removes code that turns out to have made absolutely no sense 09:57
jnthn If I did that at my $dayjob I think the codebase would get a million lines smaller... 10:02
moritz_ (writing negative code)++ 10:04
10:05 QinGW left 10:14 kensanata joined
jnthn moritz_: The trickier issue is that the business world struggles to see the value in taking the time to do so. 10:23
sorear I just pushed a LHF document for Niecza 10:32
moritz_ enodalek? 10:33
sorear dalek failed to report my last two commits
moritz_ maybe because it's not in the channel at all?
sorear no, it was in the channel beforehand
diakopter -HUP'd it 10:34
after being silent
and it didn't come back
diakopter: moritz_: theory: dalek is having issues with the fact that github no longer supports HTTP
all requests are automatically redirected to HTTPS now
niecza: say 2+2 10:35
p6eval niecza 300b7e5: OUTPUT«error CS0040: Unexpected debug information initialization error `The assembly for default symbol writer cannot be loaded'␤Compilation failed: 1 error(s), 0 warnings␤"gmcs" unexpectedly returned exit value 1 at (eval 43) line 13␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/CompilerDriver.pm
..line 254…
sorear I don't guarantee master will build; don't be afraid to branch off last week, which I tested before pushing 10:36
moritz_ if I can believe my logs, it did build 10:37
niecza: say 1
p6eval niecza 22f630e: OUTPUT«error CS0040: Unexpected debug information initialization error `The assembly for default symbol writer cannot be loaded'␤Compilation failed: 1 error(s), 0 warnings␤"gmcs" unexpectedly returned exit value 1 at (eval 43) line 13␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/CompilerDriver.pm
..line 254…
moritz_ just produces a run time error 10:38
sorear I guess some library isn't in the chroot
I recently switched niecza to pass /debug to the C# compiler 10:39
moritz_ does that mean I need to install mono-dbg etc.?
niecza: say 1 10:40
p6eval niecza 22f630e: OUTPUT«error CS0040: Unexpected debug information initialization error `The assembly for default symbol writer cannot be loaded'␤Compilation failed: 1 error(s), 0 warnings␤"gmcs" unexpectedly returned exit value 1 at (eval 43) line 13␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/src/CompilerDriver.pm
..line 254…
sorear moritz_: possibly 10:41
I hadn't realized it was an optional component
moritz_ sorear: do you use Debian (or a derivate thereof)? 10:42
sorear yes, but I have upstream mono
moritz_ hm
moritz_ tries installing mono-complete 10:45
sorear libmono-2.0-cil?
s/-// 10:46
moritz_ the -dbg packages did not help - I suspect they contain debug symbols, but don't provide any additional runtime for debugging mono programs
sorear libmono2.0-cil contains Mono.CompilerServices.SymbolWriter
moritz_ niecza: say 1 10:47
p6eval niecza 22f630e: OUTPUT«1␤»
10:55 dakkar left
sorear out 10:58
11:09 wamba joined 11:11 daxim joined 11:21 dakkar joined, dakkar left 11:22 dakkar_ joined 11:24 satyavvd left 11:33 agentzh left 11:43 ggoebel left 11:45 sftp left 11:48 sftp joined 11:53 tzhs joined 11:59 takadonet joined
takadonet morning all 11:59
12:25 [particle]1 left 12:36 [particle] joined 12:38 meppl left 12:42 daxim left 12:50 j_ joined 12:52 daxim joined 12:53 Khisanth left 12:58 dnl joined 13:01 Khisanth joined 13:06 kensanata left
j_ quit 13:07
13:07 j_ left
jnthn fail 13:07
moritz_ wanted to say that too, but jnthn was faster
13:18 Patterner left, [particle] left 13:19 [particle] joined 13:23 Psyche^ joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 13:26 MayDaniel joined 13:27 kcwu joined 13:32 kcwu left 13:34 MayDaniel left 13:35 kcwu joined 13:36 Chat6366 joined, Chat6366 left 13:38 bluescreen joined, bluescreen is now known as Guest11046 13:53 jrockway left, jrockway joined 14:02 REPLeffect left, REPLeffect joined 14:04 spq1 joined 14:11 nadim left 14:13 kanishka joined, nadim joined 14:14 Trashlord left 14:16 kensanata joined 14:22 Lorn left 14:23 Lorn joined 14:29 risou joined 14:42 alester joined 14:50 jferrero left 14:55 kensanata left 14:56 PacoLinux joined 14:57 plobsing left 15:04 mavrc joined
araujo pastie.org/1272344 15:09
araujo wonders which syntax looks better 15:10
15:12 timbunce_ left
arnsholt I think I prefer the first 15:14
It's more "conventional"
moritz_ didn't see the difference at first glance 15:15
araujo indeed ... I just wonder because... all you see there are objects sending messages between each other .....
and I wonder if { ... } would fit better for lists
so I can get index notation like: { 1 2 3 }[2]
instead of the other way around
[1 2 3]{2} 15:16
15:17 timbunce joined 15:20 MayDaniel joined 15:22 REPLeffect left
daxim neutrino on SO stackoverflow.com/q/3147776#3934635 15:22
phenny daxim: 05:48Z <sorear> tell daxim The tool you are looking for is called dynamic programming. the classical example for this is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Change-making_problem
daxim dynamic programming, eh
15:23 alester left 15:27 dakkar_ is now known as dakkar 15:35 kensanata joined 15:36 REPLeffect joined 15:39 Trashlord joined 15:41 REPLeffect left 15:42 Guest11046 left, impious joined 15:44 tzhs left 15:48 wtw left 15:49 kanishka left 15:53 REPLeffect joined 15:56 daxim left 15:57 Guest11046 joined, REPLeffect left 15:58 daxim joined 16:00 kcwu left 16:01 justatheory joined 16:09 REPLeffect joined, kcwu joined 16:12 plainhao joined 16:14 REPLeffect left 16:18 justatheory left 16:21 nadim left, nadim joined 16:26 REPLeffect joined 16:28 nadim left, nadim joined 16:33 nadim left 16:34 nadim joined 16:37 sftp left 16:43 REPLeffect left 16:45 sftp joined 16:47 timbunce left, timbunce_ joined 16:48 Ross joined 16:56 REPLeffect joined 17:01 cjk101010 left 17:03 REPLeffect left 17:05 PerlJam left, REPLeffect joined, cdarroch joined, cdarroch left, cdarroch joined 17:08 sftp left 17:09 REPLeffect left 17:11 sftp joined 17:13 stk-n-Wyoming joined 17:17 stk-n-Wyoming left 17:23 REPLeffect joined 17:25 kensanata left 17:28 stkowski joined, REPLeffect left 17:32 REPLeffect joined 17:34 xabbu42 left, xabbu42 joined 17:36 REPLeffect left 17:39 xabbu42 left, ggoebel joined 17:40 rgrau_ joined 17:50 REPLeffect joined 17:54 javs joined 17:55 REPLeffect left 17:58 dakkar left 17:59 REPLeffect joined 18:01 Axius joined 18:03 REPLeffect left, ggoebel left 18:06 mkramer1 joined, mkramer left 18:10 Axius left 18:15 icwiener joined
sorear good * #perl6 18:16
18:16 REPLeffect joined 18:20 ggoebel joined 18:23 REPLeffect left 18:24 Sarten-X left 18:32 Ross left 18:33 dnl left 18:34 timbunce_ left 18:38 REPLeffect joined 18:39 xabbu42 joined 18:40 timbunce joined 18:41 mkramer1 left 18:45 mkramer joined, REPLeffect left 18:50 mkramer left 18:51 kensanata joined, lidden joined 18:52 REPLeffect joined 18:54 [particle]1 joined 18:56 [particle] left, [particle]1 is now known as [particle] 18:58 REPLeffect left 18:59 mkramer joined
jnthn evening 19:00
sjohnson hi! 19:01
19:03 xabbu42 left
takadonet jnthn: hey 19:08
jnthn o/ takadonet 19:09
takadonet jnthn: how your hacking coming along?
jnthn takadonet: Last weekend I got a LOT of stuff done. 19:11
This week, I'm having to focus quite a bit on $dayjob so haven't got so much done.
takadonet jnthn: I saw! Good job
ahhh
jnthn (Teaching a course next week and getting the material in shape is taking a little effort. :-))
sorear added a docs/LHF to niecza in an attempt to draw attention 19:12
jnthn Anyway, planning to have another push on NQP.Net in the next few days
And then move on to spending a bit of time getting nqp-rx a bit further forward. 19:13
takadonet cool
jnthn Get it switched further to the new meta-model implementation, and port the mutli stuff I got fleshed out in NQP on .Net.
sorear sadly, dalek is broken, so you won't see me spamming #perl6 19:14
19:14 REPLeffect joined
jnthn Aww. 19:14
19:18 xabbu42 joined 19:19 REPLeffect left 19:21 mkramer left 19:22 mkramer joined 19:33 risou left 19:34 REPLeffect joined 19:37 ggoebel left 19:38 ggoebel joined, orafu joined 19:41 daxim left 19:50 timbunce left 19:54 Trashlord left 19:56 Trashlord joined 19:57 timbunce joined
Tene jnthn: what are you teaching about? 19:58
20:03 makkksimal joined, patspam joined
sjohnson is there a way to match any printable ascii character, with a regex metacharacter? 20:05
jnthn sjohnson: <print> iirc 20:06
sjohnson p6 only probably, correct?
flussence do those correspond to ctype.h? 20:07
jnthn Tene: It's a TDD intro course. So some background to that, then unit test frameworks, mock objects, dependency injection/inversion of control, and stuff like that.
colomon jnthn: is <print> limited to ASCII?
20:07 ggoebel left
Tene nice 20:08
20:08 dju joined
jnthn sjohnson: S05 only says "Match a single printable character. 20:09
so far as I can see
gah
sjohnson i've ran out of good ideas for p6 :9
jnthn That was in answer to colomon's question.
sjohnson they've been done already!
flussence poking at the source, it seems the answer to all of the above is "yes"
jnthn Perl 6 tends to go on unicode properties for the built-in char classes.
colomon jnthn++
jnthn So I'd be surprised if it was ASCII only.
Not sure what unicode character property it maps to off hand. 20:10
rakudo: say "a\nb" ~~ /<print>/
p6eval rakudo 142d22: OUTPUT«a␤»
jnthn Ah, it's implemented though :-)
20:12 makkksimal left
sorear rakudo: "七" ~~ /<print>/ 20:12
p6eval rakudo 142d22: ( no output )
flussence these are all defined in parrot languages/pge/PGE/Regex.pir if anyone else is curious, around line 150
jnthn rakudo: say "七" ~~ /<print>/
p6eval rakudo 142d22: OUTPUT«七␤»
jnthn \o/
flussence: Apart from Rakudo doesn't use PGE any more these days. :-) 20:13
20:13 dju left
sbp what are the printable characters in unicode terms? 20:13
jnthn github.com/perl6/nqp-rx/blob/maste...iltins.pir is where it's at nowadays.
flussence I went looking for xdigit first, "print" isn't the most greppable thing... :)
20:13 dju joined
sbp e.g. in terms of General Category Values 20:14
jnthn ;)
.tailcall '!cclass'(self, 'print', .CCLASS_PRINTING)
sorear in ASCII-land, print is everything except controls
sbp so everything except C[cfson]?
20:14 Chillance joined
sorear nonspacing marks might also be nonprintable 20:15
you need to read perluniprops
sbp nonspacing: those are Cf right? 20:16
e.g. U+2062 INVISIBLE TIMES (Cf)
sorear I meant stuff like COMBINING ACUTE ACCENT 20:17
sbp hmm
jnthn
.oO( U+2062 would make a great caption for a lolcat looking at its wrist, but there's no watch there. )
sorear $print = $perl->add_match_table('Print', Description => 'Characters that are graphical plus space characters (but no controls)', Initialize => $Blank + $Graph - $gc->table('Control'),); 20:18
sbp phenny: ask TimToady what <print> should match. S05 says a "single printable character", but what is a printable character in General Category Value terms? everything except for C[cfson]? sorear suggests Mn should be excluded too. Cf. TR44 § 5.7.1
phenny sbp: I'll pass that on when TimToady is around.
20:18 justatheory joined
sbp perhaps moritz_ or pmichaud will know too? 20:20
sorear the definitive reference for Perl/Unicode mapping is lib/unicore/mktables, a 14,757 line perl script which extracts relevant data
mktables makes very clear what \p{Print} matches
sbp .g lib/unicore/mktables
phenny sbp: grokbase.com/topic/2009/11/24/mktab...GTgJBMddyQ
flussence the proximity of print next to those other things makes me think it's based on ctypes though, and I think it's a bit confusing if it differs from other languages' implementation of that...
sorear and S05 makes very clear that /<print>/ = rx:P5/\p{Print}/
sbp ['IsPrint', '$cat =~ /^([LMNPS]|Co|Zs)/',''] 20:23
from cvs.opensolaris.org/source/xref/duc...ktables.PL
flussence oh, there's \p{PosixPrint} in perl6 too... guess that clears things up.
*5
sbp so that's everything except Z[lp] and C[cfsn] 20:24
sorear sbp: 5.6.1 is ancient history
20:24 ggoebel joined
sbp first thing that I found; better references welcome 20:24
sorear perl5.git.perl.org/perl.git/blob_pl...e/mktables 20:27
szbalint for unicode stuff, you need at least perl 5.10.x
flussence IsPrint is also explained in perlretut.pod, in 5.12.2
szbalint git for bleed is good though
20:30 sftp left 20:32 molaf joined
sbp gah. well from sorear's URI it seems the following are excluded: 20:35
20:35 sftp joined
sbp Surrogate SG (Cs) 20:35
Private_use Co
Noncharacter NChar (Cn)
Control Cc
Unassigned Cn
but I can't figure out why Noncharacter and Unassigned are both included, because that just means you're excluding Cn twice. so presumably they are not in fact isomorphic 20:36
and in this case, Mn would not be excluded 20:37
so I stand by my question
sorear ask #p5p 20:38
sbp I don't even see where S05 states that /<print>/ = rx:P5/\p{Print}/ 20:41
you said it makes it very clear — where so?
I've searched all references of "perl5", "perl 5", and "p5". did I miss something?
20:41 molaf left 20:42 dnl joined
dnl r􏿽xF6h 20:42
sorear S05:1908
also S01:27 is a fundamental rule
moritz_ well, we would benefit from a clearer and more explicit spec regarding the Unicode character classes 20:43
sbp ah, I see; thanks. (for the logs, that is “The C<\p> and C<\P> properties become intrinsic grammar rules such as␤(C<< <alpha> >> and C<< <-alpha> >>).”) 20:44
sorear moritz_: S01:27 should be reworded as a W3C-esque "Normative References" section? 20:45
20:45 patspam left
moritz_ sorear: not at all. It would be just better if fallback to p5 semantics would be explicit where we want it 20:47
20:47 MayDaniel left
moritz_ sorear: because there are also places where we fall back to p5 spec due to lack of existing p6 spec, not because we want it to 20:47
and IMHO those two cases should be clearly distinguished
maybe an explicit table which <foo> corresponds to which \p{bar} 20:48
20:55 Ross joined 20:56 javs left 21:04 patspam joined 21:18 meppl joined 21:32 justatheory left 21:38 pyrimidine left 21:48 mavrc left 21:54 wamba left 21:55 toebu left 22:06 Ross left 22:25 sftp left 22:31 meppl left 22:35 sftp joined 22:40 whiteknight joined 22:48 Guest11046 left 22:54 patspam left 22:55 timbunce left 22:57 risou joined 23:04 rgrau_ left
sorear yay. niecza is now running with new iterators 23:06
23:13 _kaare left
sorear All tests successful. \o/ 23:18
23:23 icwiener left 23:24 kensanata left
sorear list iteration microbenchmark is 24 times faster. 23:24
still 14x slower than Perl5 and 20x slower than PIR though
Tene nice 23:25
23:30 justatheory joined
sorear (2.29 us/cycle on itmark.pl) 23:32
23:43 wooden joined, wooden left, wooden joined 23:51 justatheory left 23:52 Patterner left, Psyche^ joined, Psyche^ is now known as Patterner 23:53 masak joined
masak ahoy! 23:53
masak is back $HOME
sorear Hello masak!!
I just made for @array { } 24 times faster in Niecza
masak wow! 23:54
sorear++
I just made my blogging page generator a bunch faster, too.
I'm basically going to blog about not being awake enough to blog about it, and then go to bed.
masak tired-ish 23:55
diakopter having trouble finding my hilite
diakopter found it 23:57
diakopter sits on (ok, near) a beach in HI

Powered by Cro and the Raku® Programming Language.

Please report any issues / comments / feature requests as an issue on App::Raku::Log.

Thank you!