»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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adriano86 hi 01:54
I need help with some perl code
donri 6? :) 02:01
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adriano86 no 02:02
7
whataafuck you think
you troll
donri 'perl' usually refers to 5, not trolling 02:05
adriano86 so you saying that i am?
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donri anyway, it's best to just ask/state your problem and see if anyone bites 02:06
nope, was just making sure. don't take it personally.
adriano86 ok so what are you saying 02:09
let me hear it
spit it out
flussence_ hugme: hug adriano86 02:10
hugme hugs adriano86
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adriano86 go away! 02:10
i dont need a god damn hug
I got a problem that i need solved
Eevee maybe spend less time fighting over nothing and more time telling us what the problem is 02:11
flussence_ if you actually have a problem, start showing code.
donri adriano86: You're not really acting in such a way as to inspire people to help you with your perl problem.
flussence_ if not, you want #perl.
adriano86 donri im tryin but its damn hard when im surrounded by idiots 02:12
ok fine
donri You're either trolling or you have seriously misinterpreted the situation.
adriano86 think ill go for the later
TODO: {
local $TODO = "Test not yet implemented";
fail "Missing a test for X";
whats wrong with this snippet 02:13
flussence_ std: TODO: { local $TODO = "Test not yet implemented"; fail "Missing a test for X"; }
p6eval std 4608239: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $TODO is not predeclared at /tmp/SiUgmnwuon line 1:␤------> TODO: { local $TODO⏏ = "Test not yet implemented"; fail "Mis␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'local' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:01 121m␤»
flussence_ there you go; "local" isn't valid perl6.
adriano86 ooh 02:14
now i get it
i knew was gonna happen
Eevee haha
adriano86 dont tell me your questioning my perl6 knowledgeability!??
flussence_ did you by any chance get kicked out of the perl 5 channel before coming here?
adriano86 ye how u know 02:15
flussence_ just a hunch.
adriano86 good one
u know my plan was..
to step it up one level, so i came to perl6
donri You should now leave and go to #perl7
adriano86 guess the people in the chan 7 waiting for me uh?
got a feelin i be meeting em real soon for some reason
flussence_ now if you don't have any actual problem, I'll be putting you on ignore until you calm down.
adriano86 nah its ok 02:16
ill just talk to myself in perl7
nobody talks bk there
they all nice and polite since they is consisting of the only non-llama on this planet
which is me myself
but i guess yall already knew that one, as it equals the mindpower of a 1+1 calculation 02:17
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mberends
.oO( a #perl7 channel would be the perfect place for all the adrianos )
 04:26
.oO( well, #perl666. we may want #perl7 for something else one day )
 04:29
donri I wonder what will turn out to warrant a major version bump from Perl 6 04:38
mberends Perl 7 it is specced philosphically in S01 ;) 04:40
s/it//
donri "Perl 6 should be malleable enough that it can evolve into the imaginary perfect language, Perl 7" heh 04:45
sorear drops by #perl6 for a little bit. 04:46
donri I don't think there can be one perfect language, there are different and incompatible paradigms that are useful for different situations
mberends nice to see ya, sorear
sorear fwiw, theorems are very very important in my kind of programming language work 04:47
although I usually don't bother to write them down
my mind likes to prove stuff in 3+ dimensions, serializing it into prose is a real pain
mberends donri: sure, S01 is not serious about perfection
donri Didn't think it was, read that quote as tongue-in-cheek 04:48
mberends sorear: +1, theory provides the guidelines within which we do sensible work. 04:50
kind of like "you can't get there from here" type statements, or "you shouldn't go there from here" 04:52
sorear the backlog I just went through has you deriding a book for calling itself "Practical" and containing "axioms, lemmas, and theorems" 04:53
mberends yes. perhaps to my tunnel vision, I could not get anything practical out of that text. 04:54
I would not mind if the book included the application of the theory.
justatheory backs away slowly 04:55
mberends backs away too, Justin Case
sorear I can't comment too much, I haven't read the book you're discussing
sorear doesn't like the fact that "academic" is a term of derision these days 04:57
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mberends sorear: that divide has existed for a very long time afaik, and there is no smoke like that without fire. "ivory towers" and so on. 04:58
sorear btw 05:00
current niecza weekly commits - 1 mberends, 2 moritz_, 3 sorear
mberends educators always seem to have struggled to provide sufficient "real world" content in their materials. I know, I'm one of them.
sorear if one of you want to claim the top spot, this is the week to do it :)
mberends feels motivated 05:01
sorear (weeks begin and end at 1900 UTC Tuesday)
mberends I owe you one little rename-refactor anyway, now for some LHF... 05:02
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sorear mberends: what directions are you interested in persuing? 05:10
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mberends sorear: directions are limited by my limited skills, but spectest coverage in general, masak's coding contest examples, any changes that get more existing P6 code running on Niecza. 05:13
essentially trying to indirectly pull up the bus number 05:14
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jnthn o/ from Taipei 05:40
jnthn is very jetlagged; don't expect any sense out of me today :) 05:41
mberends /o jnthn, good to see you online from Taipei anyway 05:42
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jnthn is glad to have made it here safely 05:46
sorear drops back out, most likely for multiple days 05:47
jnthn It seems like a pretty cool place, from this morning's wandering around. By now though I'm mostly at the point of feeling too tired to walk around and see stuff. 05:48
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tadzik morning zebras 05:53
mberends hi tadzik 05:55
jnthn o/ tadzik 05:59
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deskmsn hi guys 06:52
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moritz_ good morning 06:59
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snarkyboojum burps 07:37
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dan___ helo, I have big file with entries in this format: CX Christmas Island -- Which is 2 characters followed variable number of spaces then country name followed by spaces and --, I need to extract the country names only.. can someone show me how can that be done in perl6? 09:38
moritz_ rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\S+//; $line ~~ s/<[\s\-]>*$//; say $line 09:41
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«CX Christmas Island -- ␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/<[\s\-]>*$//; say $line
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island -- ␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/[\s|\-]+$//; say $line 09:42
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island␤»
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moritz_ right, rakudo doesn't like backslashed sequences in char classes :( 09:42
dan___ moritz_: is that considered a todo or something we will need to adopt to? 09:43
moritz_ dan___: it's a todo
rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/<+space+[-]>+$//; say $line
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of - as character range; in Perl 6 please use .. at line 22, near "]>+$//; sa"␤»
moritz_ rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/<+space+[\-]>+$//; say $line
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island␤»
moritz_ dan___: other compilers do it better 09:44
niecza: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/<+space+[\-]>+$//; say $line
p6eval niecza v3-80-g3cc93a7: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method space in class Cursor␤ at /tmp/bxy51HabRU line 1 (MAIN C3_ANON @ 4)␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1038 (CORE Regex.ACCEPTS @ 4)␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1044 (CORE _substitute @ 3)␤
..at /tmp/bxy51…
dan___ mmm
moritz_ niecza: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/<[-]>+$//; say $line
p6eval niecza v3-80-g3cc93a7: OUTPUT«Christmas Island -- ␤»
moritz_ niecza: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ s/^\w\w\s+//; $line ~~ s/<[\s\-]>+$//; say $line
p6eval niecza v3-80-g3cc93a7: OUTPUT«Christmas Island␤»
moritz_ niecza does the \s in the char class just fine
sorear++
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dan___ moritz_: Since niecza is better in that area, do you recommend removing rakudo and getting niecza? 09:47
moritz_ dan___: don't remove rakudo, install both :-) 09:48
dan___: niecza is less feature complete in other areas (multi dispatch and builtins, for example)
dan___ moritz_: I should kinda split my scripts into (more niecza compatable) and (more rakudo compatable) I think.. works for me.. 09:49
moritz_ dan___: if you have some scripts that work on both compilers, but produce different results, please tell us. Such information is very valuable for adding stuff to the test suite 09:50
dan___ moritz_: where should bug reports be sent?
moritz_: do you have a ready tool for it?
moritz_ dan___: niecza bugs go to github.com/sorear/niecza/issues and rakudo bugs to mailto:rakudobug@perl.org 09:52
dan___: if you don't know which one is correct, just ask us here
dan___ moritz_: not a git user so I will use the email 09:53
moritz_ dan___: you don't need any git knowledge for the bug tracker, it's just a web interface like any other 09:54
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dan___ moritz_: ah, okey.. 09:55
moritz_ niecza: $_ = 'foo'; say /f/ 09:56
p6eval niecza v3-80-g3cc93a7: OUTPUT«Regex()<instance>␤»
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colomon rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ m/^\w\w \s+ (\S.*\S) \s+ \-\-/; say $0; 10:42
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island␤»
colomon rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ m/^\w\w \s+ (\S.*\S) \s+ \-\-$/; say $0;
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«␤»
colomon rakudo: my $line = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; $line ~~ m/^\w\w \s+ (\S.*\S) \s+ \-\-/; say $0; 10:43
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island␤»
moritz_ that (\S.*\S) is a neat trick
'--' also works instead of \-\-
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colomon I still haven't gotten used to things like '--' working -- my solution was very p5. :) 10:44
moritz_ rakudo: $_ = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; ms/\w\w (\S.*\S)/ && say $0 10:45
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island --␤»
moritz_ rakudo: $_ = 'CX Christmas Island -- '; ms/\w\w (\w.*\w)/ && say $0 10:46
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Christmas Island␤»
moritz_ those many \s+ just *had* to go away with an implied :s
moritz_ doesn't think he actually used ms// after implementing it 10:47
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takadonet morning all 12:10
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[Coke] drowns in output. 12:19
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tadzik 'afternoon 12:25
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colomon 'morning 12:46
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masak oh hai from GoOpen in Oslo. 14:02
moritz_ oh hai
masak oh, we had a troll visiting tonight. 14:03
quite an obvious/flagrant one, it seems.
moritz_ which makes me notice that I haven't backlogged yet 14:04
masak somewhat oddly perhaps, even though I'll talk a lot about community tomorrow, I haven't managed to weave troll hugging into it all. 14:05
[Coke] I appreciate that we have troll huggers (thugs!) here, but I find it so exhausting. Easier by far to ban them. 14:07
so, thanks for doing that, becaus3e I wouldn't. ;)
masak ;) 14:08
the troll from tonight came wanting help (with Perl 5), but was hostile and distracted, and meaningful communication wasn't really established. 14:09
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masak mberends: I'm at a talk named "Art and Hacking in Syria". Arduino plays a vital role. \o/ 14:19
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[Coke] finds learnyouahaskell.com , which is the best introduction I've found so far. 14:21
masak I started following that, but got derailed. maybe I should give it another shot. 14:22
moritz_ still has "Real World Haskell" on his bookshelf, and has read only the first few chapters
mostly due to distraction too 14:23
tadzik you can read it to Ronja before she gets asleep :) 14:25
masak youngest Haskell code evar.
coder*
I wonder if structuring my free time more would entail a net good. making time plans and schedules seems to work for my working life; maybe it'd work for my free tuits as well? 14:26
moritz_ xkcd.com/874/
tadzik so appropriate
moritz_ masak: structuring free time breaks down as soon as you have a baby :-) 14:27
masak thanks; I'll keep that in mind. :P
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masak moritz_: the xkcd comic reminds me of an image someone tweeted where a child had written a TODO list in scrawly letters on a piece of paper. 14:28
* EAT ICE CREAM
* PLAY
that was it.
as I remember it, the twitterer was slightly envious of the simplicity of it all. 14:29
moritz_ :-)
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slavik1 there was an argument about what makes a language good on ubuntu forums ... 14:34
PerlJam slavik1: how sad.
slavik1 I just started listing some perl6 features/niceties
:)
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moritz_ that's not what makes a language good 14:35
tadzik slavik1: link?
moritz_ you know it's good when you get your job done, have low maintenance and low learning costs
slavik1 moritz_: hence perl6 :P
PerlJam someone should do one of those "levels of a programmer" for Perl 6. 14:36
masak +1
colomon I think I've read the first three or so chapters of books on about four functional programming languages.
slavik1 PerlJam: levels of a programmer?
masak PerlJam: url?
colomon It always feels to me like they start off showing how beautiful it is, and then suddenly it gets horribly ugly when they actually try to do something real with it. 14:37
slavik1 colomon: yeah, I have noticed that
colomon: I think it has to do more with programming in a functional manner than the languages themselves
masak colomon: sounds like the quote "Lisp is beautiful, but I've never seen a beautiful Lisp program" 14:38
colomon slavik1: I think it's a bit of both.
PerlJam slavik1: they come in different flavors but usually it's something like hello world from a first year student, then from someone with a degreee, then someone who's been on the job for 2 months, then on the job for 2 years, then 5 years, then as an "expert" and so forth
colomon ML was the worst offender, if I recall correctly.
slavik1 PerlJam: url to some existing stuff?
masak PerlJam: oh! that wasn't the one I was thinking of :)
mathw PerlJam: there's a Haskell one that gets ridiculously elaborate, based around 'factorial' I believe 14:39
PerlJam Here's another variant: www.codinghorror.com/blog/2009/04/t...mmers.html
colomon They started off with these beautiful recursive functions, but then explained that for basic efficiency reasons, you really should use these ugly hacks instead of those beautiful functions.
mathw somewhere in the middle is an extraordinarily long and convoluted implementation that uses comonads in a horribly gratuitious manner
PerlJam masak: were you thinking of this? www.indiangeek.net/wp-content/uploa...matrix.htm
"comonads"? 14:40
colomonads? :-)
moritz_ thought of the "levels of perl programmers" to which he currently can't find a link
PerlJam (sorry colomon :)
moritz_ level 1: often gets syntax errors he doesn't know how to resolve
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moritz_ level 2: gets the code running, but does things like: my @lines = <FILE>; for (@lines) { ... } 14:41
mathw PerlJam: yes, comonads
moritz_ level 3: understands contexts and basic regexes
PerlJam mathw: that's a new term for me.
moritz_ and so on
masak PerlJam: no. still looking.
PerlJam: ah. this. replay.waybackmachine.org/200709292...00-stages/
I remember liking that one. 14:42
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moritz_ masak: that might be the one I had in the back of my mind too 14:43
mathw PerlJam: I suggest not worrying about them, they make my head hurt
PerlJam Well, there should be a "Stages of a programmer" for any lanuage. Stage 1: Is happy when he gets his code to compile. Stage 2: Happy when he gets his code to execute properly. Stage 3: Can read and understand code he wrote yesterday Stage 4: Can read and understand code he wrote 6 months ago Stage 5: Knows the code he wrote 6 months ago is crap now. etc. 14:44
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moritz_ Stage 6: Knows the code he will write in 6 months is crap 14:45
slavik1 PerlJam: I def reached stage 6
moritz_: that's stage 8
PerlJam moritz_: The older I get, the more I think I used to be smarter than I am now. :)
slavik1 stage 7: knows the code he wrote will look like crap 6 months into the future 14:46
undergrad students think they know everything
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slavik1 grad students know they know nothing 14:46
phd's know that nobody knows anything
moritz_ PerlJam: well, physiological research shows that brain volume peaks at age ~14, iirc 14:47
PerlJam Maturity is getting comfortable with knowing that there are lots of things you don't know and moreover, there are lots of things you will never know.
BTW, perhaps I'm just overly sensitive to this, but I've noticed more Perl 6 ideas leaking into Perl 5 thinking. For instance, yesterday someone on #p5p wanted people to review his patch to make a [+]-alike in Perl 5 14:49
(well, a reduce-a-like, not just addition)
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PerlJam And I saw some mention of gather/take on #perl 14:50
moritz_ PerlJam: p5p has become more open-minded and fast paced in the last year or so
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masak rakudo: say "..\n..".lines>>.comb.perl 15:07
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«((".", "."), (".", "."))␤»
masak what if I want ([".", "."], [".", "."]) ?
rakudo: say "..\n..".lines>>.comb>>.Array.perl 15:08
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Method 'Array' not found for invocant of class 'Str'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/SQuy3sUGg2␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say "..\n..".lines>>.comb.item.perl
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«(".", ".", ".", ".")␤»
moritz_ I think that's wrong
masak why?
looks right to me.
but sometimes I want a list of arrays and not a list of lists. 15:09
moritz_ because item context shouldn't flatten, by the version of spec I happen to remember :-)
masak :)
moritz_ rakudo: say "..\n..".lines>>.comb>>.item.perl
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«(".", ".", ".", ".")␤»
masak having a way to do that would make things a bit nicer for the kata in a few hours...
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moritz_ rakudo: say ([.comb] for "..\n..".lines) 15:10
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«. .. .␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say ([.comb] for "..\n..".lines).perl
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«([".", "."], [".", "."])␤»
masak rakudo: say (1,2,3).Array
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Method 'Array' not found for invocant of class 'Parcel'␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/N6BS8b4jDj␤»
masak any reason that casting method shouldn't exist?
moritz_ simply NYI I think 15:11
masak moritz_: right, '[.comb] for' works, and I could use that. but it would be nice with just a chain of methods.
masak submits rakudobug
moritz_ or maybe .slice aka .lol should do it
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masak TimToady: what do you think? 15:12
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colomon [.comb] works? Rakudo++ 15:25
moritz_ why shouldn't it? :-)
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colomon I can't recall ever seeing [ ] used with a method. 15:26
moritz_ colomon: it's just an array constructor
masak you seem to overestimate the magicality of [ ]
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moritz_ [ $_.comb ] 15:26
colomon ah.
Rakudo--, then. :p
masak I'm more happy that a statement-terminator 'for' cam be used as a list comprehension. \o/
mathw list comprehensions are awesome 15:27
masak I just showed a fellow GoOpen-er how I was using tote for my kata. he told me about ':help autocmd' in vim. 15:32
moritz_ nice one 15:34
masak aye. wonder if Emacs has similar hooks.
moritz_ so you can run stuff after every :w
masak right.
moritz_ or you could just read from an inotify daemon :-)
masak aye, and be limited to Linux. 15:35
moritz_ well, you can chose between being limited to an OS or an editor :-) 15:36
masak I think I'd like for the eventual long-term tote to use inotify, but fall back on a platform-independent solution.
flussence_ rakudo: #`<!-- playing around with that code above, I ended up writing this nonsense: --> say lines[.comb] for $*IN.get 15:39
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land der Äcker, Land der Dome,Land
..der Äck…
masak gist.github.com/881437 # this is the code I tend to end up writing for the minesweeper kata 15:42
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masak last time the &neighbors sub was outside, but this time it ended up inside &sweep, losing a bunch of initialization. 15:42
...and I get to showcase nested subs! \o/ 15:43
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arnsholt masak: How long are you in Oslo? 15:59
masak arnsholt: only until tomorrow afternoon. 16:01
masak decides to time himself with the kata one last time 16:02
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moritz_ seems that waiting for a file to be written with inotify is as easy as 16:03
inotifywait $filename -e close_write
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masak 15 minutes. wow, this kata stuff really works. ;) 16:19
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masak see you after the public demo of Perl 6 ;) 16:22
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mberends phew, marathon phone and skype calls. now JIT for #phasers :) 18:53
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masak I just showed ~50 people how to implement Minesweeper in Perl 6 \o/ 18:54
mberends \o/ \o/
(applause)
masak I had time for everything, including some of the crazier refactors. ;) 18:55
mberends masak++
masak I don't think I cured anyone of the myth of Perl as a family of obfuscated languages...
...but I might have inspired a few to have a closer look.
have to get back to the event. see you o/ 18:56
mberends o/
Util masak++ 18:59
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Util tadzik++ # For excellent blogging and socializing 19:21
mberends++ # For all the Jasmin to come...
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[Coke] Util++ 20:14
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donri donri-- # for messing with his own karma 20:18
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colomon masak++ 20:23
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dalek ast: 3977901 | (Patrick Abi Salloum)++ | S02-builtin_data_types/parcel.t:
Added tests for RT86764 Array method on parcel
 20:28
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dalek kudo: b556bc7 | patrickas++ | src/core/Parcel.pm:
Add Array method to Parcel RT86764
 20:32
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donri rakudo: say "foo".encode.perl 20:40
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«.new(contents => [102, 111, 111])␤» 20:41
donri Not very useful eh?
dalek kudo: 9739a91 | (Martin Berends)++ | tools/test_summary.pl:
[tools/test_summary.pl] make the git log command also work with git 1.5.x
 20:48
kudo: 4ab84a1 | (Martin Berends)++ | src/core/Parcel.pm:
Merge branch 'master' of [email@hidden.address]
flussence_ .new? That looks wrong.
moritz_ should be Buf.new 20:49
donri rakudo: say Buf.new(contents => [102, 111, 111]).decode.perl 20:50
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«""␤»
donri rakudo: say Buf.new(contents => [102, 111, 111]).perl
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«.new(contents => [])␤»
flussence_ er...
donri =)
moritz_ rakudo: say Buf.new(102, 111, 111).perl 20:52
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«.new(contents => [102, 111, 111])␤»
moritz_ rakudo: say Buf.perl
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Buf␤»
flussence_ rakudo: say unpack('H*', 0x0102030405).perl # does this work in p6?
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«Could not find sub &unpack␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/DD4lMHhsg2␤»
flussence_ aww
donri rakudo: say Buf.new(102, 111, 111).decode.perl
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«"foo"␤» 20:53
donri So the .perl is not only wrong, but also wrong?
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flussence_ (I'll suggest that for a GSoC project if it's still open for ideas... make the binary stuff work!) 20:55
moritz_ rakudo: class A { has $.foo = 3 }; say A.new.perl 20:58
p6eval rakudo 841b2c: OUTPUT«A.new(foo => 3)␤»
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dalek kudo: d5ccf9f | moritz++ | src/core/Buf.pm:
fix Buf.new
 21:04
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flussence_ \o/ 21:04
masak moritz_++ 21:07
<donri> donri-- # for messing with his own karma 21:08
donri: and with causality, it seems! :)
boy, I wish I had a time-turner sometimes. I'm going to force myself to do some slides manicure for an hour, and then go to bed. 21:09
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masak I just came back from a "Grand Panel", much like the one last year at GoOpen. TimToady was on it last year. allison was on it this year. 21:10
moritz_ masak: gist.github.com/882070 my minesweeper solution 21:11
masak Perl actually got a small snide comment from one of the panelists (I forget who), but was defended *on Twitter* by someone in the audience.
masak looks
moritz_ way too many interuptions while writing though :( 21:12
masak the tweet said something like "I actually find Perl kinda interesting". in my vanity, I tell myself that that person had just seen my kata demo. :P
moritz_ :-)
masak moritz_: nice with the min and the max. I didn't think of that. 21:13
I still think minmax is a solution without a problem, by the way.
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masak one thing that I toyed with was turning empties into 0s and bombs into 1s, and then just [+]-ing over eight .rotated versions of that field of bits. 21:15
I noticed with happiness that .rotate already does nested arrays per the spec.
...but then I realized that what I needed wasn't a 'rotate' operation so much as a 'shift and if things go over the edge, throw them away' operation 21:16
'shift' as in bitops, not as in Perl.
moritz_ masak: I also thought about padding everything with 1 row/col of 0s at each side 21:17
and then increment in the 8 neighboring cells
21:17 PacoLinux joined
moritz_ and the slice out the board 21:17
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flatwhatson_ "The path of the righteous programmer is beset on all sides by the inequities of the clueless and the tyranny of evil project managers. Blessed is he, who in the name of achievement and solid technology, shepherds the users through the valley of ineptitude, for he is truly his customer's keeper and the finder of lost solutions. And I will strike down upon thee with great vengeance and furious anger those who would attempt to d 21:23
eploy without testing. And you will know my name is zedshaw when I lay my software upon thee."
tadzik niice 21:24
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masak ...hotel wifi decided I had had one full day of wifi and needed to re-apply... 21:27
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masak moritz_: if I could get the padding without the coordinates changing (maybe with @array{} indexing), I wouldn't feel a need for a cousin to .rotate that shifted instead of rotating :) 21:28
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masak hey, look what I found: twitter.com/denisb/statuses/50249722878885888 21:33
it was a bit unfortunate... I went right after the Ruby guy, and he didn't finish.
but that was because he was tidy enough to spend time setting up BDD tests. 21:34
it was definitely a growing experience doing a kata in public, as part of a group of people with different language backgrounds solving the same problem. I'd like to do it again sometime. 21:41
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PerlJam masak: How much practice did you have before you did it in public? 21:43
masak I can quantify that pretty accurately. I practiced three times. once yesterday and twice today. 21:47
first time I took ~30 minutes to solve the whole thing. third time I took ~15 minutes. I was surprised.
PerlJam masak: I did it once yesterday the stupid way (using no Per6isms at all) in about 40 minutes with my kids constantly interrupting me. After solving it once I figured I could half that time without much difficulty. 21:50
masak right.
in the first time, I found myself pausing a lot thinking about choices.
second and third time, less and less so.
PerlJam It seems like it would be interesting to use these katas as a learning tool. Put your code up on a big screen as you type and have the audience ask questions about what you're doing. 21:52
masak that's basically what happened here.
PerlJam okay, but for learning it would have to happen slower :) 21:53
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masak troo 21:53
the audience was clearly following what I was doing. the two times I got a bit stuck, someone shouted out what I was missing. ;) 21:54
PerlJam simple katas like this also are amenable to solutions in multiple styles. Mine would look roughly the same in Perl 5 as Perl 6, mortiz's would showcase more Perl 6
etc.
masak absolutely. 21:55
just doing five independently evolved Perl 6 solutions would be interesting in itself.
someone should do a contest along those lines.
PerlJam masak++ :-) 21:57
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masak I could like this channel just for the free karma. :P 22:05
broquaint Is Web in a usable state ATM and if not are there alternatives?
masak no, and yes.
Web.pm is in a state where there are interesting things to be pulled out of it.
the most interesting things are already projects on their own that just happen to be in that repo.
(and not especially related to the Web namespace) 22:06
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broquaint Thanks, masak :) 22:07
If I wanted to write a web app where's the best place to start?
masak tell us more about your constraints/requirements.
do you need it to be more than static pages?
do you need it to be faster than reeeeeeallly slow? 22:08
because right now, those two are more or less in opposition.
broquaint Dynamic pages and speed would be good :) 22:09
masak with November, we managed to get a GET request down to ~3 seconds. but that was without a framework -- we did our own makeshift CGI.pm clone.
broquaint Hrm, interesting. 22:10
masak that was on alpha, which was faster than current Rakudo.
please don't say "interesting" about the makeshift CGI.pm clone. :P
I don't want an empire of Perl 6 webapps to be built on that.
really not.
broquaint Fair enough. 22:11
What I really want are Perl6's grammars.
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broquaint What's the 5->6 interop like ATM? 22:12
masak c.f. blizkost. 22:13
broquaint Thanks again, masak++ :) 22:14
masak the status of which jnthn and, hm, sorear?, can probably tell you more about.
tadzik broquaint: my Dancer port was quite fast, but quite primitive too 22:15
that's probably related :)
masak tadzik: can you quantify "quite fast"?
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tadzik masak: It didn't seem "awfully slow" to me 22:16
which is "quite fast" for Rakudo
masak :)
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tadzik and speaking of grammars and frameworks... where is this 22:17
.g grammar-based dispatch
phenny tadzik: www.training-classes.com/providers/..._scope.php
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tadzik .g grammar-based dispatch ttjjss 22:17
phenny tadzik: ttjjss.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/so-...-6-module/
tadzik no!
masak bad google!
tadzik broquaint: see ttjjss.wordpress.com/2010/11/27/gra...p-further/
well, duckduckgo is doing only a little bit better 22:18
broquaint Thanks, tadzik, will look into it tomorrow :)
masak duckduckgo++ # silly name, nice search engine
tadzik also, there is supernovus' ww6 framework
github.com/supernovus/ww6/
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masak does anyone have a source for the "community's rewrite of the community" quote? 22:19
jnthn It used to be quoted on dev.perl.org/perl6/ iirc 22:20
maybe still is
sbp masak: strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-wi...-true-heir
right there on your own blog
it's the source of everything!
earliest I've found so far is slashdot.org/story/00/07/19/203221/...ces-Perl-6 22:21
so it's pre 19 Jul 2000 at least...
ugh, the link to conferences.oreillynet.com/perl4/ from use.perl.org/articles/00/07/19/161217.shtml is broken 22:23
masak so it's bound to have been on that cruise, right.
day after the cup was thrown.
mug.
whatever. 22:24
sbp there is a Proceedings of the Perl Conference 4.0 book, by O'Reilly I think 22:27
perhaps somebody here has it?
nevermind, it's on Google Books snippet view 22:28
.title books.google.co.uk/books?ei=ZSKJTc_...hAet76m6Dg
phenny sbp: Google Books
sbp and there's only one result for "rewrite of" in the book, on p.134
which isn't related
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sbp the context on www.foo.be/docs/tpj/issues/vol5_3/t...-0001.html suggests 18 Jul 2000 for the utterance 22:31
which is actually the mug throwing day 22:32
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masak` hm, the 4th State of the Onion just says "Perl 6 is going to be designed by the community." 22:32
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sbp masak: 22:37
The community stopped and shrugged
That day that Orwant threw his mugs,
And Le Mur Grande cast it all to hugs
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masak aww ;) 22:38
sbp lost two lines because of flooding 22:39
let's try again, stupid freenode
—
The community stopped and shrugged
That day that Orwant threw his mugs,
And Le Mur Grande cast it all to hugs
So that the world would soon see pugs:
May all our Perl6 lack of bugs!
—
masak sbp++
sbp they added some new throttling code to irc-seven, it's really very annoying 22:40
especially because it says your lines have been "throttled"
meaning, actually, to death: the lines are not sent to the recipient
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donri Incompatible versions of `core_ops' oplib. Found 3.2.0 but loaded 3.1.0 # :( 22:43
for my own HLL after new parrot build 22:44
masak maybe recompile the HLL? 22:46
Tene donri: you've got old stuff deployed or used or something that needs rebuilt
donri: use strace to find out what it is, if it's not otherwise clear
donri i did setup.pir build
oh wait setup.pir clean build 22:47
now works :D
didn't see clean documented anywhere but took a guess
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masak Tene++ 22:57
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masak 'night, #perl6 23:08
tadzik o/
jnthn o/
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jnthn Ah, breakfast time, bbl. :) 23:14
Tene morning jnthn
jnthn morning, Tene
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