»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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sorear good * #perl6 00:35
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sorear moritz: jnthn: Should I read the niecza := thing in more detail? 00:38
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mary1724 hola 01:17
sorear Hola, mary1724 01:18
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sorear mary1724: are you here for Perl 6 or did chatmosphere send you here? 01:18
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ingy what's the best place to build a modern, but somewhat stable, rakudo from? 02:34
colomon ingy: well, Rakudo Star's latest release was yesterday.
so you could use that or github, they're both about equal at the moment, I'd guess. 02:35
ingy :)
is there a star branch of the rakudo repo
or should I use the rakudo-star repo 02:36
maybe the 2011.04 tag 02:37
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colomon rakudo's 2011.04 would be last week's release. 02:37
which is probably pretty much the same, but if you want the latest and greatest.... :)
ingy I just want to fix my out of date modules that tadzik pointed out. 02:38
colomon seriously, Rakudo is pretty stable at the moment; the major development at the moment is off in another repo.
ingy cool
what's the tag of the latest star? 02:39
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colomon github.com/rakudo/rakudo 02:41
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colomon (don't know the tag) 02:41
github.com/downloads/rakudo/star/r....04.tar.gz 02:42
is the latest
ingy that's probably github.com/rakudo/rakudo/tree/2011.04
:)
colomon sounds likely. :) 02:43
you coming to YAPC::NA?
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sorear ingy: star isn't part of / a version of rakudoe 02:46
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tylercurtis Is there some way to define a sub such that the value of a :$foo parameter is the result of calling a sub/method on the value passed in as the named argument foo? 02:51
It seems like I recall there being one.
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tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as Str) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f 5; 02:54
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: sub bar($s) { $s.Num; } sub f($foo as &bar) { say $foo.what; }; f 5; 02:55
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub bar($s"␤»
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tylercurtis rakudo: sub bar($s) { $s.Num; } sub f($foo as { .&bar }) { say $foo.what; }; f 5; 02:55
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "sub bar($s"␤»
PerlJam tylercurtis: I'm pretty sure what you want doesn't yet exist even if it is specced (but that doesn't ring any bells for me either) 02:56
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tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as abs) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5; 02:59
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as Num) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5;
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as ::abs) { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5;
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Null PMC access in find_method('perl')␤ in 'f' at line 22:/tmp/_kjsq1BahP␤ in 'f' at line 1:/tmp/_kjsq1BahP␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/_kjsq1BahP␤»
tylercurtis rakudo: sub f($foo as "abs") { say $foo.WHAT; }; f -5; 03:00
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 22␤»
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imamelia Hi, guys. 03:38
tylercurtis Hi, imamelia. 03:40
imamelia Dang it, I always forget to change my nick on here...well, I might as well just go by imamelia to make things simpler.
(Or get a different IRC client.)
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imamelia There was something that I thought should be included in Perl 6 instead of having to be installed separately, but I've since forgotten what it was... 03:42
That wasn't why I came here anyway, though.
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sorear What's wrong with imamelia? 03:48
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ingy rakudo full build in under 10 minutes on my (not-so-turbo-charged) Thinkpad \o/ 04:11
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imamelia By the way, are you guys as prejudiced against Windows users as the regulars on #perl are?... 04:13
(Not accusing anyone, just asking.)
ingy imamelia: I was just looking at the rakudo Makefile
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ingy it seems to have at least a nod to windows 04:13
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PerlJam jnthn (at least) uses Windows 04:14
ingy $(CP) $(PERL6_EXE) $(DESTDIR)$(PARROT_BIN_DIR) 04:15
PERL6_EXE = perl6$(EXE)
etc
PerlJam imamelia: besides, I don't think #perl is prejudiced against windows users so much as against windows ineptitude :)
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ingy imamelia: Alias is on #perl, and he's almost the entire perl/win32 community ;) 04:16
god bless the man 04:17
imamelia Installing extra stuff (like GTK) on Windows...holy crap. Quantum physics seems like it would be easier.
(Not that I've tried to install the same packages on Linux or anything.) 04:18
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imamelia I'm thinking of messing with Fedora after finals week is over. 04:19
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sorear imamelia: What's wrong with "imamelia"? 04:25
imamelia On this server, I usually go by TheMartianGeek. 04:26
The two nicknames stem from two completely different sources, and I tend to use them in different contexts.
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tadzik PerlJam: about the perlscript, you could also check the json file for "badge_panda" : "1" 04:33
oh no, these results are better 04:34
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mberends o/ from Slovenia! 06:57
phenny mberends: 20 Apr 17:10Z <isBEKaml> tell mberends Yes, most production java deployments run on JDK 5 and so that's not an issue. I set the version to 1.5 and ran a build but didn't get any warnings. Since you say you do, "Fix them!" :P
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birdwindupbird .йгше 07:19
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vinni Hello 07:45
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snarkyboojum mberends: čao, kako si? :D 08:37
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mberends snarkyboojum: dobro, hvala! 08:38
sada jesam u Ljubljani # did I say that right?
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snarkyboojum mberends: ah, Ljubljana is where my girlfriend was born :) 08:40
mberends snarkyboojum: it's where my son now goes to school :)
snarkyboojum mberends: btw, I don't speak much, I'm an aussie through and through :P 08:41
beautiful!
mberends heh
TiMBuS how do you get a method reference.. 08:42
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TiMBuS from an object 08:42
my $m = $class.method; #dont call method() 08:43
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moritz my $m = $class.^can('method') 08:59
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jnthn oh hai o/ 10:27
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moritz \o 10:32
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mberends oh hai jnthn! 10:34
jnthn mberends! \o/ 10:36
mberends: In Slovenia? :)
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mberends jnthn: aye 10:36
jnthn mberends: Nice! :) 10:37
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jnthn nqp: say("working?") 10:38
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«sh: ./nqp: not found␤»
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moritz argl 10:41
herald2 rakudo: 2*2
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: ( no output )
herald2 rakudo: print 2*2
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«4»
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mberends jnthn: you'd love it here, overcast, drizzle 10:43
moritz nqp: say(3*5) 10:44
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«15␤»
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jnthn mberends: I...don't like drizzle much :P 10:45
If it's going to precipitate, I'd prefer it be snow. :) 10:46
moritz: yay, thanks for fixing!
nqp: class Foo is Bar { }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Could not find parent class 'Bar' at line 1, near ""␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20730 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5630)␤»
moritz rakudo: class Foo is Bar { } 10:47
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤No applicable candidates found to dispatch to for 'trait_mod:<is>'. Available candidates are:␤:(Mu $child, Role $r)␤:(Routine $r, Any :default($default)!)␤:(Code $block, Any $arg?, Any :export($export)!)␤:(Mu $child, Mu $parent)␤:(Mu $type where ({ ... }), Any
..:rw($rw)…
jnthn nqp: class Foo { has $!lol; method wtf() { say($!lawl) } }
p6eval nqp: OUTPUT«Attribute '$!lawl' not declared at line 1, near ") } }"␤current instr.: 'nqp;HLL;Grammar;panic' pc 20730 (src/stage2/gen/HLL.pir:5630)␤»
moritz rakudo: class Foo { has $!lol; method wtf() { say($!lawl) } }
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: ( no output )
moritz rakudo: class Foo { has $!lol; method wtf() { say($!lawl) } }; Foo.new.wtf
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«No such attribute '$!lawl'␤ in 'Foo::wtf' at line 22:/tmp/ppZ346GuNZ␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/ppZ346GuNZ␤» 10:48
jnthn nqp knows at compile time :)
moritz \o/ good error messages at compile time in nqp
jnthn moritz: It actually has the meta-objects to hand during the compile.
So this even works with custom meta-classes.
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moritz how is the verification done? is there "give me a slot associate with attribute $!foo" method on the meta object? 10:50
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jnthn moritz: At the moment it calls .^attributes(:local) and looks through them, but I'm considering having a method on the meta-object like "is_valid_attribute" or something 10:50
moritz +1 10:51
jnthn So that if you write something that doesn't require pre-declaration of attributes it'll just be able to say "yes, that's fine" always :)
moritz also I wonder if .^attributes and .^methods should really return hashes, not lists
jnthn Trouble is what the keys/values would be 10:52
You may have multiple methods with the same name.
Or attributes with the same name.
From different places in the inheritance hierarchy.
moritz hm, right 10:53
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Layla_91 hey all.. just passing by.. -my coffee break :D - 11:22
jnthn o/ Layla_91
Layla_91 jnthn: prevet! :D
mberends perl -Ocoffee
jnthn Layla_91: kak dela? :) 11:23
Layla_91 jnthn: horosho! :D heeey you know russian :D
jnthn
.oO( oh my, two weeks until I'm in Russia and actually have to attempt to speak it! )
Layla_91: I'm bad. :)
Layla_91 jnthn: want a quick tutorial? it is free :P
jnthn \o/
Layla_91 jnthn: haha! ;D 11:24
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jnthn submitted 3 talks for YAPC::Russia and they call got accepted 11:25
So now I have to give 'em!
Layla_91 jnthn: it is actually easy language.. u just need to love and understand the culture behind it and it will be all clear.. we are romantic and spiritual people :)
jnthn *all
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jnthn Layla_91: I'm not sure I'd call it easy... :) But it is beautiful. :) 11:26
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Layla_91 jnthn: I am trying to learn french ^_^ that is hard :S 11:27
jnthn: but it is so sweet language :D
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jnthn Ой ля ля! 11:27
Layla_91 hahaha! :D 11:28
it seems that to learn a language the best solution is to move to a country that speaks it... 11:29
jnthn Layla_91: Certainly.
Layla_91 so I need to visit 10 countries in the near future and stay 10 years in each :P
moritz that's quite possible, if you can get the countries to overlap :-) 11:30
jnthn Just live in disputed territories...
:)
Layla_91 mmmm... good theory... 11:31
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jnthn is really crappy at Swedish, but has sucked up loads of words just by living here for a year 11:31
Layla_91 jnthn: is it hard?
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Layla_91 jnthn: harder than russian? 11:32
moritz I don't think Swedish is hard if you know other Germanic languages
jnthn Layla_91: It's easier language for me to learn, since much more overlap with English.
moritz I for one know German and English, and learning Norwegian (which is quite close to Swedish) doesn't feel very hard
(which doesn't imply I'm actually good at it... ) 11:33
jnthn Layla_91: It's mostly a problem of finding time and motivation to study it.
Layla_91 jnthn: btw i never asked about your original language (or forgot what is it! :s)
I guess moritz is german..
moritz Layla_91: correct 11:34
jnthn Layla_91: English. :)
Layla_91: I'm originally from England. :)
Layla_91 jnthn: yaaaaaaaaaaaay! lsn you must teach me to speak your accent! :D
moritz: I kinda guessed based on your chat personality (The serious boy :P :D) 11:35
jnthn Layla_91: My local dialect, or the one I use for the rest of the world? :)
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Layla_91 jnthn: mmm... dunno :S I do not know the difference :$ 11:36
moritz doesn't think this was a compliment :-) 11:37
jnthn Layla_91: When I was living in Slovakia my teacher could understand my English just fine. Then a friend from my hometown came to visit me. When I talked to him I spoke Yorkshire dialect (not on purpose even), and she couldn't understand anything we said to each other!
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Layla_91 jnthn: ooooh! :S 11:38
jnthn Layla_91: Anyway, just find some video of me speaking at a conference to see what my "normal" accent sounds like :)
Layla_91 jnthn: mmm.. will check on youtube :D
jnthn Layla_91: not sure there are any there... video.osdc.tw/ has a couple 11:39
Layla_91 jnthn: have u used tcl before?! they need to write a script for a cisco device... I never tried it before...
jnthn: going to the link ;)
jnthn Layla_91: No, never used it, though always wanted to write a testing framework for it. 11:40
I'd call it test-tcl.
mberends *groan*
Layla_91 moritz: you are a great and loyal friend I think :) your wife must be happy with you.. here you go.. a complement :P :D
jnthn mberends: Sorry. Fixing char encoding bugs in legacy ASP code brings out the worst in me. :P
mberends jnthn: just don't balls it up! ;) 11:41
moritz Layla_91: you're too kind
tadzik good noon 11:42
jnthn oh my...the code uses VBScript regexes...which I'm pretty sure don't actually handle unicode
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mberends hello tadzik 11:43
Layla_91 hola tadzik :)
jnthn: mmm.. guess what?! it is a great way to learn both english and perl6! am downloading your vids! :D 11:47
jnthn Layla_91: \o/ 11:48
Enjoy :)
Layla_91 ok back to work :\ see ya! :D 11:49
jnthn Hope I don't say anything too embarassing on them...I didn't actually watch them much. :)
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jnthn Layla_91: Hey, at least your work isn't fixing VBScript.... :P 11:49
Layla_91: byebye :)
dalek osystem: 5df4b62 | tadzik++ | / (2 files):
Remove benchmark from the SHELTER
 11:50
Layla_91 jnthn: my work today is learning tcl :P
tadzik vbscript, heh
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Layla_91 and writing a small script for cisco device.. 11:50
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jnthn tadzik: I used to think that I'd understand this codebase better when I got to the point where I could read the Swedish comments. 11:51
Now I kinda can read them, I realize they're like "set x to zero" :/
tadzik our Polish Open and Free Software foundation has recently ordered a few educational applications. The responsible person wrote them in Visual Basic, and sent them the source code in .doc format. Because .rtf was too big with the images
mberends that's mind boggling :/ 11:53
tadzik we had a good laugh about it on the LUG meeting. 11:54
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jnthn party & 13:54
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TimToady perl6: say v5.9 ~~ v5.8+; 17:03
p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/wcftZoB_Mt line 1:␤------> say v5.9⏏ ~~ v5.8+;␤␤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/wcftZoB_Mt line 1:␤------> say v5.9 ~~
..v5.8+⏏;␤␤Unha…
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "9"␤ expecting ".", "\187", ">>", "=", "^", operator name, qualified identifier, variable name, "...", "--", "++", "i", array subscript, hash subscript or code subscript␤ at /tmp/zta29Tv0I9 line 1, column 8␤»
..rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near "say v5.9 ~"␤»
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TimToady std: constant v0 = 42; say v0+3; 17:07
p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row at /tmp/fG81la5t5x line 1:␤------> constant v0 = 42; say v0+⏏3;␤ expecting any of:␤ POST␤ bracketed infix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ postfix␤ postfix_prefix_meta_operator␤ statement modifier
..loop␤Parse failed␤FAILED…
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TimToady std: constant v0 = 42; say v0 + 3; 17:07
p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«ok 00:01 120m␤»
TimToady niecza: constant v0 = 42; say v0 + 3; 17:08
p6eval niecza v4-76-g7bf5ef9: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Action method value:version not yet implemented at /tmp/ZIYWPo_umS line 1:␤------> constant v0 = 42; say v0⏏ + 3;␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 388 (CORE die @
..2)␤ at /home…
TimToady hmm
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TimToady some grammar rules are insufficiently setting-y, such that they cannot be overridden by user-defined identifiers 17:14
TimToady has been thinking about this for some time, and should probably continue to think about it... 17:15
std: constant abs = 42; say abs 17:16
p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Prefix requires an argument at /tmp/xC6s9IwyA0 line 1 (EOF):␤------> constant abs = 42; say abs⏏<EOL>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 120m␤»
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PerlJam "prefix requires an argument"? That's an odd error :) 17:26
moritz std: abs 17:27
p6eval std 3468e14: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Prefix requires an argument at /tmp/gnwR1t5Wly line 1 (EOF):␤------> abs⏏<EOL>␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:01 117m␤»
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PerlJam or maybe Perl should have an "aggressive warning" mode that tells you when you're trying to do something that will end badly. 17:30
(at least until TimToady figures how how to make them sufficiently setting-y)
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foodoo Does anyone here know what happend to rakudo.org? 17:50
sbp 10:20 <pmichaud> ...why is rakudo.org down? 17:51
10:20 * moritz has no idea, but it has happened a few times recently
10:20 <pmichaud> That's... not good.
10:20 <moritz> agreed.
they're making a new one apparently
moritz foodoo: it's being replaced with a new website due to reliability issues
colomon foodoo: for the moment, try rakudoperl.org
sbp pmichaud was asking people who wanted to register to author/admin it to register somewhere 17:52
foodoo thanks
colomon that's the new one (and rakudo.org will be pointing there ASAP)
moritz foodoo: rakudoperl.org is a backup, rakudo.org will sooner or later point to the new location
sbp further:
10:20 <pmichaud> rakudoperl.org is a domain I already own; we'll hopefully get rakudo.org to forward to rakudoperl.org or something like that
sorry, was up in backscroll, didn't see moritz had already answered
and colomon
foodoo thanks for the quotes. Can't rakudo.org show a static HTML page in the meantime with exact this information?
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moritz foodoo: only the maintainer could do that. But when he shows up again, he can just as well change the DNS entry 17:57
flussence hm, what to do with try.rakudo.org? 17:58
sbp redirect to irc://irc.freenode.net/p6eval,isnick
flussence heh :)
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mahen23 hello guys 18:03
guys, anyone running linux can test this out please? mobilemru.com/html5/mahen23/
sbp mahen23: sorry, this is a perl6 channel!
try #javascript or #web etc.? 18:04
mahen23 ok
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masak good weekend, zebras! 18:26
(or "good, weekend zebras!", or "good weekend zebras!"...)
moritz masak: received the book today, thanks 18:28
masak glad to hear it. 18:29
I think some people here might find cacm.acm.org/magazines/2011/5/10768...n/fulltext interesting.
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fglock [ot] the thing by mahen23 was actually fun :) 18:50
masak yes; quite esthetic. 18:51
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fglock nqp seems to be growing up - is there a plan to go for full Perl 6? (just wondering, looks like a good idea) 18:56
moritz fglock: the idea is to keep it fairly minimal, but use it to build rakudo 18:58
(and maybe other compilers)
which is its main goal
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atrodo Howdy! What is the best perl6 mailing list(s) to send an invitation to join us for the YAPC::NA parrot/perl6 BOF? 19:09
19:10 Helios` joined
masak maybe perl6-users? 19:11
19:12 explorer__ left 19:16 MayDaniel left
moritz agreed 19:18
sorear masak: hi! 19:28
masak sorear: hi! 19:30
how's Niecza coming along? 19:31
sorear pretty well - not many tuits right now
masak know the feeling. :/
sorear pmurias++ has been playing with an optimizer though
masak ooh
sorear the v5 release has been postponed
masak yeah, I saw. 19:32
moritz having a v5 release of v6 bears some irony :-)
masak just wait until next month :P 19:33
fglock sorear: hi! 19:36
sorear fglock: hi 19:37
tadzik ontwik.com/perl/perl-6-update/ -- is that as fresh as the footnote says, does anyone know? 19:41
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moritz tadzik: after watching the first few minutes, it looks like from 2010 shortly after the first R* release 20:01
tadzik well, when was the 35th Rakudo release?
masak November 2010. 20:02
20:02 arcus left
masak (according to docs/release_guide.pod) 20:02
tadzik 2010-11-18 Rakudo #35 "Melbourne" (masak)
aye
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moritz .u DEGREE 20:05
phenny U+00B0 DEGREE SIGN (°)
IllvilJa 35th Rakudo release... sounds a bit like the 44th President of the United States or something. 20:07
masak that's preposterous! Rakudo won't be elected president of the United States until 2037! 20:08
er. I mean.
TimToady world domination comes first 20:09
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masak rakudo: my @stuff = <oes us ation>; say "World Domin$_" for @stuff 20:10
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«World Dominoes␤World Dominus␤World Domination␤»
masak rakudo: say "World Domin{.pick}" given <oes us ation> 20:11
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«World Dominoes␤»
masak \o/
fglock :) 20:12
masak I call dibs of toppling the first one! :)
TimToady silly, they start at the other end 20:16
moritz TheDamian gets one thing wrong in this presentation 20:18
he says that infix + is a method call on the left operand
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moritz rakudo: $_ = "foo"; .=uc; .say 20:22
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«FOO␤»
tadzik well, that looks uglyish 20:23
moritz rakudo: $_ = "foo"; .= uc; .say 20:24
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused at line 22, near ".= uc; .sa"␤»
sorear yeah, it's actually a method call on BOTH operands :> 20:25
TimToady actually, it's a method on the current language, as defined by the current lexical scope 20:26
hence, + is defined by the language, not by either object 20:28
this is especially important if either object is, say, a Python object
moritz also TheDamian uses for (@list) { } # note the parens 20:32
fglock btw, experimenting with accessing the 'document' object in the browser: perlcabal.org/~fglock/perlito.html 20:35
IllvilJa Are there any odds for getting perl 6 sneaked into the web browsers, similarly to how Javascript seem to be available "everywhere"? 20:37
moritz IllvilJa: the odds are very low, because Perl 6 is a rather big language 20:38
IllvilJa That would be quite a feat to get the language available there! (Imagine what you could do with Perl6 + the HTML5 Canvas element)
fglock hmm - check the link above?
IllvilJa moritz: understandable.
TimToady implement the JS backend, and there you are...
foodoo IllvilJa: Probably not. I read about the same discussion on the Lua mailinglist recently and Lua is a very small language
tadzik nqp would be nice
fglock IllvilJa: perlcabal.org/~fglock/perlito.html 20:39
moritz fglock: I think the question was more about built into the browser
dalek ecs: 8f8d30e | moritz++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
[S32::Exception] start to rewrite the exception spec
 20:40
TimToady new RS entry, rosettacode.org/wiki/Vector_products#Perl_6
sorear everybody seems to want their favorite language built into browsers
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sorear as if it would somehow be a good thing for browsers to contain 50 independant 2MB language runtimes 20:41
TimToady at one point there was talk of embedding parrot, but that's been...de-emphasized...
masak I for one would like to see Perl 6 on Android.
moritz TimToady: it would need a good security model for that
TimToady
.oO(it would need a good * model for that)
 20:42
tadzik is not really into this "I want everything in the browser" movement
TimToady tell me you don't use emacs :) 20:43
sjohnson a surprisingly high amount of people do use it
not me tho :)
sjohnson uses Vim
foodoo I spare you the link to the appropriate XKCD Comic as you certainly all know it 20:44
moritz we do.
tadzik TimToady: no, I don't :) But I liked the tetris 20:45
IllvilJa Well, you don't *need* to have your favorite language in the web browser, I'm surprised how competent Javascript turns out to be if you program it with enough discipline and thought.
sorear I also don't think it's Android's job to have a ton of distinct language runtimes
TimToady pugs had the beginning of a JS backend 20:46
foodoo do the python people consider using parrot for Python4? If yes, then Android will support paarot for sure
sorear why would they? 20:47
moritz foodoo: is python 4 actually in planning?
it's the first time I've heard about it
foodoo not that I know of. But if they switched to Parrot, they probably need another version number
sorear TimToady: can you compile a typical 1kb Perl 6 program to <= 4kb of Javascript?
moritz maybe if you gzip the javascript... 20:48
TimToady no, but I'm not a p5-to-js translator
*p6
frettled TimToady: you're not that, either? Sigh. :D
TimToady No, the only think I am right now is going to take a nap. 20:49
moritz foodoo: there's a gsoc proposal to implement a python3 compiler for parrot. Let's see how far it gets
TimToady &
moritz sleep well 20:50
sorear I suspect that if you proposed Parrot-today to Python, they'd laugh at you. With good reason.
moritz feedback on my latest spec change is very welcome
sorear: right
fglock sorear: perlito.js is about 2.5 times the size of the Perl6 code 20:51
foodoo Python3 is still rather young. Let's see how things develop until the end of the pre-python4-era ;) 20:52
sorear moritz: it seems inconsistent to have %.payload for extensibility and at the same time be mixing in roles like OSError, why not use one or the other exclusively? 20:54
moritz sorear: I was thinking the same towards the end... I probably should get rid of %.payload 20:55
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moritz sorear: maybe the should be an X::AdHoc which has %.payload, for those too lazy to define their own classes 20:55
basically I want to stir people away from storing too much information in the message 20:56
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sorear moritz: we could possibly use the enum/role coercion to benefit here 21:02
masak moritz: a GSoC proposal -- but has it been accepted?
moritz sorear: care to elaborate? 21:03
masak: yes
sorear die $message but Errno::ENOENT
mixes in a role with an Errno method
moritz sorear: then $message will still contain the name of the file inline
sorear although, hmm, we want to mix in to the exception object
not to the message
moritz aye 21:04
masak moritz: wow, that's good news.
sorear do you expect people to be using die $message, :arg<> a lot?
or some kind of X::Foo.new().throw?
21:04 fglock left
sorear I mean, do you expect &die to do most X:: construction? 21:05
moritz sorear: I think those that bother to write their own error classes will either doe X::TheirError.new(...).throw or die X::TheirError.new()
masak will do the latter
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moritz sorear: and I want plain die() to be sufficiently flexible to create at least some X:: objects 21:06
masak doing .throw on an exception object feels too magical :)
sorear moritz: so &die does MMD DWIMmery on Str vs. X::Base?
moritz yes
maybe die(Str, @rest of %arguments) creates an X::AdHoc, which has a %.payload etc.
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moritz in unrelated news I've tried to understand the code in p5's FindBin.pm, and tried to simplify it 21:08
it's mindboggling, and partially very obscure, to say the least
it searches for the current script in $PATH even if it's in plain sight in the current directory
sorear What happens if I pass an X::Base to &die which already has a $.backtrace? 21:09
moritz sorear: haven't thought about that yet... it might stack the exceptions somehow 21:10
which we need for .fail() things anways
s/\.//
masak $! is supposed to be a stack of exceptions, IIUC. 21:11
moritz I wonder if X::Base simply should have a $.next attribute 21:12
so that it's a linked list of excpetions
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alester ping pmichaud 21:34
phenny alester: 28 Apr 04:28Z <pmichaud> tell alester Feel free to point rakudo.org to the rakudoperl.org server whenever you're ready
alester haahah, thanks, phenny! 21:35
masak phenny++ 21:39
alester Then again, I imagine pmichaud could have mailed me. :-) 21:42
frettled mail is SO 1990 21:43
tadzik seems that I am mail 21:44
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moritz lectures tadzik about 'is' not being symmetrical 21:45
tadzik well, right, but I couldn't resist the pun :)
masak there are several meanings of 'is'. some, not all, symmetrical. 21:47
the one frettled used is not.
sorear dpm 21:48
don't you mean "transitive"?
masak hums "all I am sayin', give E-prime a chance"
sorear: no, I think "symmetrical" was the proper term here.
just because mail is SO 1990 does not mean that SO 1990 is mail. 21:49
sorear How did we get from "SO 1990 is mail" to "[tadzik] am mail" 21:50
masak oh, indeed.
application of first symmetry, then transitivity? :)
tadzik: as sorear implies, you also fail at syllogism. 21:51
tadzik . o O ( say something stupid and it becomes a topic of a discussion. Similar to the zebras' case )
masak so, for that matter, do I.
tadzik bah, forget about it
masak just because mail is 1990 does not mean that all things 1990 are mail.
:P 21:52
masak likes syllogisms because they were the coolest thing around for hundreds of years until boolean logic was discovered 21:53
moritz sorear: 'is' is indeed transitive, but not symmetrical
(in this context) 21:54
masak right. because 'SO 1990' works as an attribute. 21:55
ah. and here's the name of the fallacy: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_th...ted_middle 21:56
(Z := 'mail', B := '1990', Y := 'tadzik')
tadzik g'night #perl6
masak 'night, tadzik. 21:57
frettled No pandas? 21:58
21:58 foodoo left
frettled tadzik: sleep tight 21:58
tadzik pandas are so #perl6. #perl6 is so pandas
masak :P 21:59
tadzik take that, I'll read it in the morning ;)
frettled :D
In British English, shouldn't it be "#perl6 are so pandas"?
masak tadzik: sleep soundly, panda.
tadzik frettled: that'd also help the symetry 22:00
masak frettled: British English are very strange.
tadzik and if not, I can adopt my Polish English for this to be correct
use English '-Ofun';
masak .oO( apply some Polish... ) 22:01
frettled Tiger, tiger, burning bright
tadzik alright, sleeping for real now :)
frettled in the forests of the night
what immortal hand or eye
masak tadzik: you've used up your good nights for the night! :)
frettled could frame thy fearful symmetry?
masak symmetr-EYE?
frettled Hey, it's poetry. In your eye. 22:02
masak rubs his eye
sorear polish English? 22:03
frettled Oh, /me gruntlebuggit.
tadzik hello again, greetings from sleeping disorders 22:04
frettled sorear: that will make the language shine
masak tadzik: try harder!
frettled or softer
sorear (mean 'you '(is 'tadzik 'mail))?
masak sorear++
tadzik masak: after 20 years of insomnia I can pretty much sense that in the nearest block of time I simply _won't_ sleep, no matter what
last time this resulted in all-night cardinal hacking 22:05
masak tadzik: have you heard about 90-minute sleep blocks?
tadzik masak: I seem to recall something like this, yes
the main blocker for me is that simply going to bed and closing my eyes won't get me to sleep
my organism decides when to sleep, not me 22:06
huf smoke weed
jasonmay polyphasal sleep is probably impossible for people with REM-related sleeping problems
masak huf: your choice of nick is suddenly all the clearer.
huf huh?
how is huf connected to that in any way? 22:07
tadzik no, "huf"
;)
huf (btw it's pronounced like hoof)
frettled masak: seems rather foggy to me
masak yeah, I must've been inhaling or something.
won't happen again ;) 22:08
frettled puff it all out
tadzik poof, the magic dragon
frettled This was a very fridayish conversation. 22:10
tadzik and a bit nightish
frettled I'll try that sleep thing now. :) 22:11
G'night!
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tadzik g'night! 22:11
masak on Fridays, the conversational topology is warped, so the shortest distance between supposition and conclusion is not a straight line.
I'm having trouble executing a second REPL command in the new nqp (master branch). 22:13
can anyone reproduce this?
seems I'm on HEAD, too. 22:14
alester everyone check your DNS for the new rakudo.org 22:17
tadzik seems that is sent me to rakudoperl.org 22:18
I'm on opendns
alester good, that's the point.
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masak 'night, #perl6 22:26
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dalek ecs: 7c80322 | larry++ | S32-setting-library/Exception.pod:
Name exception roles more consistently
 22:56
jnthn evening o/
tadzik evening o/ 22:57
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jnthn had plenty of Staropramen this evening :) 23:01
Rotwang which is better, staropramen or zaltopramen? 23:03
zlato*
jnthn IMO, Staropramen. Starobrno beats both for me, though. :) 23:04
sorear ~~ ?
all(Staropramen, Zaltopramen, Starobrno) ~~ ? 23:05
Rotwang czech beer == good beer ^__^
jnthn sorear: Czech beer. They brew some really nice ones. :)
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imamelia Isn't Perl 6 supposed to have file slurping built in? 23:50
jnthn my $stuff = slurp('file');
rakudo: my $lol-i-didn't-read-it = slurp('README'); say $lol-i-didn't-read-it 23:51
p6eval rakudo 8533c3: OUTPUT«Operation not permitted in safe mode␤ in 'Safe::forbidden' at line 2:/tmp/Ent3tmjNz6␤ in main program body at line 22:/tmp/Ent3tmjNz6␤»
jnthn aww

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