»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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TimToady perl6: say (1, 1.000000000001, 1.000000000002 ... *)[10] 00:16
p6eval rakudo a4c78f, niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«1.00000000001␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "["␤ at /tmp/UtrSMuGBxC line 1, column 46␤»
sorear .000000000001 is larger than 2**-64 00:20
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TimToady just making sure what I said on p6l was troo 00:32
colomon perl6: say (1, 1.000000000001, 1.000000000002 ... *)[^10] 00:33
p6eval rakudo a4c78f, niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«1 1.000000000001 1.000000000002 1.000000000003 1.000000000004 1.000000000005 1.000000000006 1.000000000007 1.000000000008 1.000000000009␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "[^"␤ at /tmp/4ddP672TH0 line 1, column 46␤»
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tadzik masak: pong :) 00:52
colomon: still around?
colomon yes
tadzik had some questions about panda?
colomon was trying to figure out how the ecosystem works. 00:53
tadzik feather.perl6.nl:3000/projects.json now has Math::ContinuedFractions; it's updated hourly
colomon but it seems to have sorted itself out.
yes.
tadzik there's a script on feather which collects everything from the perl6/ecosystem repo and puts it in one big JSON for module manager's sake
s/manager's/managers'/
colomon I just wasn't patient
tadzik impatience is one of our virtues :) 00:54
japhb (backlogging) colomon, yes, I've seen panda running exceptionally slowly on Rakudo. My current mini-benchmark is 'panda list', which takes ~23s on my local machine. Analyzing the profile, I saw most of the aggregate time went to JSON parsing; of that, a lot of time spent in QRegex, but a lot more just doing general list slinging operations -- I concluded (among other things) that Rakudo pays dearly performance-wise for its current lazine 00:55
ss design.
colomon also, at least on my system, saying panda search Math is ludicrously slow.
tadzik fwiw, JSON is really a piece of cake in all this 00:56
colomon It only takes 6 seconds on niecza, so it doesn't seem like your algorithms are at fault. :)
tadzik loading modules, on the other hand...
SVG::Plot took 20.5 seconds to generate a pacman chart
20 to load SVG::Plot, 0.5 to generate a chart
colomon woof
tadzik yeah
so really, I don't even worry about json these days 00:57
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japhb (backlogging still) TimToady, would it help to have an index page on perl6.org for links to examples in various places, including a more useful (to us) index of Perl 6 code on RosettaCode? 00:58
TimToady, FWIW, I was running Forest Fire under both Niecza and Rakudo yesterday, from one of your gists. Under Rakudo it's interesting but slow. Under Niecza, a smallish map is updated fast enough to look truly animated. 01:00
TimToady japhb: yes, an index with #perl6 tags would be useful 01:01
and yes, niecza runs it 20x faster than rakudo currently
japhb '#perl6 tags'? Oh, you mean, links that go directly to that fragment ID. 01:02
TimToady yeah
kinda bums me that RC doesn't do that autmatically for language pages
japhb Yeah, that's what I'd meant. OK, where is the repo for perl6.org?
That is kinda odd.
Isn't mikemol (an|the) admin there? 01:03
colomon TimToady: forest fire doesn't seem to work for me?
TimToady [email@hidden.address]
colomon: I haven't updated it with a working version yet, if you're talking about the RC version 01:04
colomon ah, yes
TimToady hang on a sec
colomon that would tend to cause problems. :)
TimToady okay, the version there now should work under either niecza or rakudo 01:08
japhb: actually, they are #Perl_6 tags 01:11
japhb TimToady, gotcha. I would have checked. ;-) 01:12
colomon TimToady: works for me now, danke. 01:13
TimToady colomon: I particularly like the take // next idiom that gets rid of the conditional that used to be in the list comprehension
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colomon take-rw // next, you mean, right? 01:14
TimToady in this case, yes, but I was speaking one step more generically
colomon TimToady++
colomon is trying to understand this code 01:16
sorear I am now replying to Jon Lang to say "Interval arithmetic _by default on all Nums_ is highly unlikely to ever happen" 01:29
someone speak up if I'm being blatantly wrong here.
colomon +1 01:30
If he wants it, he's free to implement it himself as a library.
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sorear I've decided to try being the voice of "that will never happen" on p6l 01:44
maybe I can inject a little sanity
colomon It strikes me as a thankless job. sorear++ 01:45
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TimToady well, there are far too many people who *only* naysay, but sorear++ has done enough yeaysaying to have earned the right to naysay from time to time :) 01:54
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moritz \o 04:23
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moritz there is one sane-ish proposal hidden deep in that thread "How to make a new operator" 04:24
that is, make sequence detection work with Rats and Ints, but not with Nums
I'm not sure what to think of it 04:25
thing is, Num *can* represent a huge number of commonly used values accurately
and can do arithmetic without the dreaded/stigmatized floating point errors
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moritz so I kinda think we played our part in preventing floating point errors by making Rat the default for numbers like 0.1 04:28
and it's overly pessimistic to pessimize the sequence operator to barf on Nums 04:29
sorear hmm, I am trying to evaluate if David Green's messages would benefit from a reply 04:41
the only intelligible reply I can make to the second one is "I like the name, it reminds me of pattern matching in the functional programming sense, which it kind of is" 04:42
the first one I can only say ARGH HAVEN'T WE GONE OVER THIS A MILLION TIMES to
also, infinite regress. What's 1 + 1e-50 > 1 ? 04:43
if that's an error, then what should happen with abs($x - 1) < 0.2 if $x happnens to be exactly 1.2e0? 04:44
moritz sorear: hey, I know the perfect reply for it 04:50
n: multi infix:<==>($a, $b, :$prec) { abs($a-$b) < $prec }; say 1 == 2 :prec(5); 04:51
p6eval niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«True␤»
moritz p6: say pi.WHAT 04:54
p6eval rakudo a4c78f, niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«Num()␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«Rat␤»
moritz replies 04:55
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sorear moritz: "before taken into consideration before" - I think you forgot to finish writing a paragraph 05:31
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cogno perl6: say rx|a| || rx|b| 06:33
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/LO9SXq1ps8:1␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«<Regex>␤»
..niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«Use of uninitialized value in string context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1226 (warn @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 234 (Mu.Str @ 10) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting…
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fsergot hi #perl6 o/ 09:27
tadzik hi fsergot
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mikemol japhb: Yes, I'm an admin on Rosetta Code. Owner and chief admin, if you prefer. 09:38
japhb: Also, if you link to "Pagename#Perl%206", that should take the visitor directly to the anchor named "Perl 6", which should be at the top of any perl 6 code on RC. 09:39
masak morning, #perl6 09:44
masak grumbles about DST
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: f4744f1 | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | source/community/rosetta_code.html:
Add first ideas for Rosetta Code community page; will need discussion and expansion before being linked into rest of site.
 09:45
japhb mikemol, The above commit is the beginnings of a Rosetta Code launch page for perl6.org. It's clearly not very filled in, but hopefully the concept is clear. Once we fill it in more completely, hopefully it can be linked in and become visible to passerby. :-) 09:47
moritz japhb: please don't use underscores in URLs 09:48
either no joiner (just like rosettacode.org), or use a - instead
japhb Ah, sorry, got used to looking at all the wiki links on RC itself ...
fsergot hi masak o/
mikemol Yeah. MW is stupid about _ and " ". -.- 09:49
japhb moritz, would you like me to rename and push, or are you already doing so?
I don't have the energy to do it tonight (I'm already up way later than I'd intended), but the CSS links on the site should be made relative, so that it is easier to see styled pages locally .... 09:51
japhb doing the rename ... 09:53
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 035bdbc | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | source/community/rosetta (2 files):
Rename rosetta_code.html -> rosettacode.html, as per moritz++
 09:54
japhb The update bot has pushed it: perl6.org/community/rosettacode.html 10:01
Comments appreciated! Before I spend too much energy filling it in, I want to be sure consensus is that I'm on the right track. Or alternately, that someone goes in and fixes it while I sleep. 10:03
Which I should do. :-)
Will backlog. & 10:04
mikemol I can give feedback on RC's structure, but not much else.
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moritz japhb++ # I like it 10:07
japhb: fwiw please use perl6.org/community/rosettacode as the URL, the .html is merely an implementation detail
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tadzik phenny: tell sorear is it normal that I have to run 'make' on niecza twice? See gist.github.com/2192705 10:19
phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
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colomon tadzik: do you have make set up to be parallel by default? 10:41
tadzik yes, I think that's the problem 10:45
colomon I suppose that means the Makefile issue is a missing dependency? 10:48
tadzik I think so 10:49
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colomon tadzik: I've got what I think might be a solution, but looking at the Makefile I suspect it's not how sorear++ would do it. Guess we should wait for him to wake up. 10:57
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masak japhb++ # perl6.org/community/rosettacode 11:20
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masak BruceZu: hi. 11:21
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: ce406f7 | moritz++ | README:
[README] update my IRC nick
 11:28
href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 47ca947 | moritz++ | README:
[README] link to URLs without .html extension
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felher japhb++ # nice new page :) 12:12
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gfldex masak: is Web.pm supposed to build under cygwin? 12:31
masak gfldex: as far as I know, yes. 12:35
gfldex: but it's not under active development, so it may simply have bit-rotted.
gfldex ===SORRY!===
Dynamic variable %*VM not found
looks a little rottish to me :)
tadzik gfldex: try github.com/tadzik/web maybe 12:37
I did some effort to make it compile and run a while ago
gfldex tries
tadzik: same result 12:38
tadzik okay, no idea then 12:40
phenny: pl en "bezoki jeleń"?
phenny tadzik: "eyeless deer" (pl to en, translate.google.com)
masak r: say %*VM
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Dynamic variable \%*VM not found"))␤»
masak moritz: is it meant to .perl the Failure like that, rather than throw its exception? 12:41
gfldex is there any other module that does get('your.url/here') ? 12:47
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tadzik bailador does 12:50
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tadzik github.com/tadzik/bailador 12:51
see a pastebin app for example: github.com/tadzik/Bailador/blob/ma...astebin.pl
gfldex starts to dance a little
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masak :) 12:59
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tadzik phenny: en es "gfldex starts to dance a little"? 13:00
phenny tadzik: "gfldex comienza a bailar un poco" (en to es, translate.google.com)
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felher Could someone take a quick look at paste.pocoo.org/show/570964/ before i mess up the spec? :) 13:00
colomon I might say "stringifies its arguments by calling .gist on them". 13:06
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GlitchMr perl6: qr/ a / 13:08
p6eval niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Regex not terminated at /tmp/Kl0VNYHwzi line 1 (EOF):␤------> qr/ a /⏏<EOL>␤␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'qr' used at line 1␤␤Parse failed␤␤»
..rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Preceding context expects a term, but found infix / instead at line 1, near ""␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected end of input␤ expecting "\\", variable name or "/"␤ at /tmp/x0lGrHDcs8 line 2, column 1␤»
GlitchMr Oh right... rx...
felher colomon: paste.pocoo.org/show/570969/ ? 13:09
colomon felher 13:10
GlitchMr But hint would be nice :P.
colomon felher++
felher colomon++ for the review :)
dalek ecs: e338a6f | (Felix Herrmann)++ | S32-setting-library/IO.pod:
[S32/IO] change say to use .gist instead of .Str
 13:12
gfldex i tried LWP::simple now and that doesn't work either
use LWP::simple;
Method 'at_key' not found for invocant of class 'Any'
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gfldex that error message could do with a little more line numbering 13:12
luckily i got some icecream so i don't bother to much
tadzik iirc a broken URI is a reason for broken LWP::Simple 13:13
github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wiki/St...les-on-nom should contain some pointers
gfldex oh well 13:14
i think i will retreat to wget then :)
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masak I just noticed that the methods <created modified accessed changed> never got ported to nom. probably due to lack of spectests. 13:43
psyde++ for picking that up.
tadzik they were never specced, afair 13:44
masak right. too bad, because they read really well in code.
tadzik aye
masak I'd like to reintroduce them, along with the also-unspec'd .copy and .move
tadzik iirc it was me who implemented them :)
masak where can I read more about constants such as pir::const::STAT_ISDIR?
that seems to be the piece missing for implementing them. 13:45
Beijing's implementation is in the form of `multi method created() { ::Instant.from-posix($.stat.createtime) }`
but nom's IO doesn't have a $.stat attribute (probably wise). 13:46
so we have to get the stat info through pir::stat__Isi
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masak blog post! \o/ strangelyconsistent.org/blog/counti...igurations 13:57
it's not *the* t4 blog post, but rather a pre-t4 post. 13:58
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masak walk & 14:10
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awwaiid masak, "[The elephant] looked small in comparison." ... genious quote. Wonderful way to explain how an exploration of the mind can be so engaging and powerful. 15:00
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masak awwaiid: thanks. :) it's so typical of me to be spending parts of my beach paradise vacation inside my notebook. 15:16
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masak ooh: www.git-legit.org/ 15:32
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GlitchMr ?^$value # now I'm confused... 16:12
perl6: print $^1 16:13
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name␤at /tmp/RM3KcichZG:1␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "^"␤ expecting "::"␤ at /tmp/n5ZsGE_7_q line 1, column 8␤»
..niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/Uf3tRgP24B line 1:␤------> print ⏏$^1␤␤Use of uninitialized value in string context␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1222 (warn @ 3) ␤ a…
GlitchMr perl6: print ?^1
p6eval niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«False»
..rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«True»
..pugs: ( no output )
GlitchMr True... what?
It's just for consistency, right?
masak what is for consitency? what is your question? 16:14
GlitchMr "?^" operator
masak no operator is there "just" for some reason.
benabik r: say ^1
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«0..^1␤»
benabik I think ?^1 is just ?(^1)
GlitchMr According to S03, it's boolean not... 16:15
benabik I could be wrong, I'll admit.
masak submits rakudobug
GlitchMr ... I don't mean upto operator...
masak benabik: there is a prefix:<?^> operator.
but it might be missing in Rakudo. 16:16
sorear good * #perlt6
phenny sorear: 10:19Z <tadzik> tell sorear is it normal that I have to run 'make' on niecza twice? See gist.github.com/2192705
sorear good * #perl6
masak sorear! \o/
sorear colomon: hi.
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benabik prefix:<?^> == prefix:<!> 16:16
?
sorear colomon: what I would do is to add a .NOTPARALLEL: at the end ;)
colomon: what's your idea? 16:17
GlitchMr I couldn't find ?^ in tests...
sorear p6: say !(True | False)
p6eval rakudo a4c78f, niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«False␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
sorear p6: say ?^(True | False)
p6eval niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«any(Bool::False, Bool::True)␤»
..rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«False␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
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GlitchMr But that's weird... Perl 5 had medium-precedence and low-precedence logical operators. Perl 6 adds high-precedence logical operators... 16:18
masak GlitchMr: the unique thing about the ops starting with ? is that they coerce to Bool. 16:20
GlitchMr I guess that concept of Perl 6 is "more of everything"...
masak as long as the additions carry their own weight, sure.
answering your original question, the ?^ ?& ?| operators are there partly for consistency with the ones starting with + and ~ 16:21
GlitchMr Perl 6 grammar is full of various ambiguities, but I guess that "longest token matching" helps with those...
masak be careful with the term "ambiguity", which is something one *really* doesn't want in a grammar. 16:22
GlitchMr But I like certain parts of grammar 16:25
| '<<<<<<<' :: <?before [.*? \v '=======']: .*? \v '>>>>>>>' > <.sorry: 'Found a version control conflict marker'> \V* \v
:P
masak yeah, we were inspired there by clang ;)
GlitchMr Nice to see that Perl 6 blocks running programs with version control conflict markers...
masak clang++
masak wonders if Rakudo does that yet... 16:26
GlitchMr Is it one of those "helpful messages" (well, I guess it's more helpful than just normal "Syntax error")
Or worse... pass... 16:27
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benabik masak: Rakudo seems to think it's a list. 16:29
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GlitchMr Heh, I would like to see something like B::Deparse for Perl 6, but I guess that custom grammars would make utility like this nearly impossible... 16:30
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masak benabik: how unfortunate. 16:30
eggzeck: o/
moritz nom: say %*foo
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Failure.new(exception => X::AdHoc.new(payload => "Dynamic variable \%*foo not found"))␤»
eggzeck masak: o/
GlitchMr ... but... perhaps normal grammar debugger which would mark boundaries between tokens...
moritz masak: that's a an unthrown Failure, and you see its .gist, which happens to be the same as its .perl 16:31
masak moritz: ah. somehow I expected that .gist'ing a Failure would trigger its exception. 16:33
eggzeck: new around here? welcome! 16:34
moritz masak: that's doable too 16:35
eggzeck masak: Yes I am, thank you for the welcome! :-) 16:36
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masak moritz: I'm not saying my expectation is correct -- just that that's what it is. IIUC the thing with Failures is that they should triggered basically as soon as they're "used", and .gist is using. 16:37
moritz: from a higher level, I'd rather see the actual error message than the Failure .gist, nice as the latter one is. 16:38
jnthn o/
moritz r: sub f { fail 'foo }; f() + f() 16:39
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse blockoid, couldn't find final '}' at line 2␤»
moritz r: sub f { fail 'foo' }; f() + f()
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \$v, Mu %_!)␤␤ in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:644␤ in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2284␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/vXxhVZn3ZH:1␤␤»
moritz \o jnthn
r: sub f { fail 'foo' }; f() ~ f()
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«foo␤ in method Str at src/gen/CORE.setting:8086␤ in method Stringy at src/gen/CORE.setting:673␤ in sub infix:<~> at src/gen/CORE.setting:960␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/Pqb2jHJ5Kk:1␤␤»
sorear GlitchMr: are you deliberately making inflammatory comments?
Is anyone here knowledgable on universal hashing? 16:40
moritz: hi 16:41
moritz o/ sorear
GlitchMr OK, I had to look for "inflammatory" in dictionary...
Perhaps, I don't know... 16:42
sorear moritz: your last mail to p6l - I think you forgot to finish typing the second paragraph
it ends with a sentence fragment
moritz sorear: oh, that happens to me, I should reread it
sorear: thanks
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moritz sorear: replied 16:45
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japhb moritz, masak, felher: Thank you, glad you like the new page. :-) 17:21
moritz, Understood regarding no trailing .html in site links. 17:22
masak keep up the good work!
japhb Thank you, I think I will. :-)
Any nominations for "Community Favorites"? 17:23
The left column is going to get rather long, so we should have a few more in the right column.
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masak maybe rosettacode.org/wiki/Last_Fridays_of_year#Perl_6 ? 17:24
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japhb Masak, yes, I think that qualifies. :-) 17:29
masak I think TimToady will have further suggestions... 17:30
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moritz masak: I'm now spectesting a fix for some of the Failure stuff 17:33
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masak yay 17:35
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japhb What is our current preferred term for the group of languages including both Perls, Python, Ruby, JavaScript, etc.? 17:48
tadzik dynamic languages?
japhb tadzik, WFM 17:49
moritz you could also say "scripting languages", but "dynamic" sounds less negative 17:55
dalek href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: 1527e4c | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | source/community/rosettacode.html:
Add masak++'s suggestion of Last Fridays of Year to 'Community Favorites' list
 17:56
href="https://perl6.org:">perl6.org: ced0a2e | (Geoffrey Broadwell)++ | README:
Merge branch 'master' of github.com:perl6/perl6.org
japhb moritz, yeah, "scripting languages" was what I was trying to avoid. 17:57
OK, I'm off to try to find a new desk for my eldest. 17:58
&
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sorear I think dynamic/scripting is a bit too broad 18:16
Perl, Ruby, JavaScript, and Python are all very closely related
witness C'Dent
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GlitchMr perl6: print ([1,2,3;4,5,6]).perl 18:39
p6eval rakudo a4c78f, niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«[4, 5, 6]»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** ␤ Unexpected "["␤ expecting expression or ")"␤ at /tmp/yW0cVYIUvR line 1, column 8␤»
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colomon sorear: my idea was on the technically wrong but probably (I think) mostly effective side -- change .fetch-stamp: FETCH_URL to be .fetch-stamp boot/obj/Run.CORE.ser: FETCH_URL 18:39
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colomon sorear: I'd not heard of NOTPARALLEL before. :) 18:39
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[Coke] catches up. 19:02
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GlitchMr perl6: print (/|foo|bar|baz/).perl 19:05
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«regex _block1011(Mu , Mu %_!) { ... }»
..niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«regex ANON(Any \self) { ... }»
..pugs: OUTPUT«{regex}»
GlitchMr perl6: print ~/what/ 19:06
p6eval niecza v15-6-gefda208: OUTPUT«Regex()<instance>»
..rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«_block1011»
..pugs: OUTPUT«Error eval perl5: "if (!$INC{'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'}) {␤ unshift @INC, '/home/p6eval/.cabal/share/Pugs-6.2.13.20111008/blib6/pugs/perl5/lib';␤ eval q[require 'Pugs/Runtime/Match/HsBridge.pm'] or die $@;␤}␤'Pugs::Runtime::Match::HsBridge'␤"␤*** '<HANDLE>' tra…
GlitchMr oh wait... I forgot to use qr
*rx
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nwc10 so it seems that as fast as the masakbot reports bugs, the Pmbot fixes them. 19:20
I suspect that reality is not as pleasing as this, but thanks for maintaining the illusion whilst you can. 19:22
(but don't burn out)
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masak there are also jnthnbot, and moritzbot, and sorearbot. 19:23
all with their special skills and features. 19:24
nwc10 "drinks beer"
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nwc10 although, really, I think it's more "makes you think that he's only drinking beer, when actually he's coding hard" 19:26
sorear not I. 19:28
nwc10 all beer is actually an illusion? :-) 19:29
dalek kudo/typed-ex-hash: d34720f | moritz++ | src/core/Failure.pm:
make Failure throw more consistently
moritz oops, wrong branch agian
dalek kudo/nom: 06b4eca | moritz++ | src/core/Failure.pm:
make Failure throw more consistently
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moritz .u eject 19:34
phenny U+23CF EJECT SYMBOL (⏏)
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moritz nom: say X.WHO.keys 19:43
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«AdHoc Constructor Routine Hash Buf IO Comp OS Syntax Pod NYI OutOfRange Signature Placeholder Attribute Redeclaration Undeclared Phaser Obsolete Parameter Method Bind Value Declaration Anon Augment Package␤»
moritz nom: my $a = X::Phaser::PrePost.new(); say 'alive'; 19:44
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«alive␤»
moritz nom: my $a = sub { fail X::Phaser::PrePost.new() }.(); say a.WHAT
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/4u2qCkQHfw:1␤»
moritz nom: my $a = (sub { fail X::Phaser::PrePost.new() }).(); say a.WHAT
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤CHECK FAILED:␤Undefined routine '&a' called (line 1)␤»
moritz nom: my $a = (sub { fail X::Phaser::PrePost.new() }).(); say $a.WHAT
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Failure()␤»
moritz nom: my $a = (sub { fail X::Phaser::PrePost.new() }).(); say $a.payload 19:45
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Precondition failed␤ in method <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8091␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2250␤ in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2248␤ in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:822␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/eEnHIuCYHb:1␤␤»…
moritz nom: my $a = (sub { fail X::Phaser::PrePost.new() }).(); say $a.payload.WHAT
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Precondition failed␤ in method <anon> at src/gen/CORE.setting:8091␤ in <anon> at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2250␤ in any find_method_fallback at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:2248␤ in any find_method at src/gen/Metamodel.pm:822␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/CcyuVwYlxn:1␤␤»…
moritz eeks
masak oops.
'the jibe operator'. yeah, I could probably live with that. 19:47
"it doesn't smartmatch, sire." -- "it doesn't jibe, dude."
moritz hasn't even bothered to read that mail. 19:49
should I?
masak nah. 19:50
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colomon worst kind of bikeshedding 19:50
masak let p6l rename our operators if they want. ;)
see if that helps.
moritz nom: say '3 foo' + 'bar'
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«Cannot call 'Numeric'; none of these signatures match:␤:(Mu:U \$v, Mu %_!)␤␤ in method Numeric at src/gen/CORE.setting:644␤ in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2284␤ in sub infix:<+> at src/gen/CORE.setting:2284␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/P3WwKSsoVM:1␤␤»…
moritz evalbot rebuild nom
p6eval OK (started asynchronously)
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dalek Rebuild of nom complete. 19:56
kudo/nom: 008dd40 | moritz++ | src/core/ (3 files):
start to fail() with typed exceptions from Str.Numeric

somewhere along the way it still stringifies though :(		 19:59
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moritz jnthn: any reason why that Q:PIR block inside &fail (in Failure.pm) isn't just try die $value; $ex = $!; ? 20:01
masak r: try die "whee!"; say $!; say "stayin' alive!" 20:06
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«whee!␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/Hw9fxnHW92:1␤␤stayin' alive!␤»
masak r: try die "ah " x 4; say $!; say "stayin' alive!" xx 2 20:07
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«ah ah ah ah ␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/PHYt4PGp2L:1␤␤stayin' alive! stayin' alive!␤»
masak :P
r: try die "ah " x 4; say $!.payload; say "stayin' alive!" xx 2
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«ah ah ah ah ␤stayin' alive! stayin' alive!␤»
masak is so easily amused
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moritz nom: use fatal; try +'5 foo'; say $!.WHAT 20:26
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«X::AdHoc()␤»
moritz evalbot rebuild nom
p6eval NOT OK (maybe a rebuild is already in progress?)
moritz nom: class A is Exception { }; my $x = fail A.new; say $x.exception.WHAT 20:29
p6eval rakudo a4c78f: OUTPUT«X::AdHoc()␤»
moritz nom: class A is Exception { }; use fatal; try fail A.new; say $!.WHAT 20:32
p6eval rakudo 008dd4: OUTPUT«A()␤»
jnthn moritz: May be hysterical raisons. 20:35
moritz: e.g. from before mls++ patched a bunch of exception handling issues. 20:36
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sorear masak: I'm starting the thankless task of trying to be the naysayer on p6l. 20:40
moritz sorear: only do it where it makes sense; don't exhaust yourself
sorear now, I wish there were a good p6l equivalent of /me stares at Damian and yary blankly
dalek ast: d720afa | moritz++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
test that Str numification error message survives through infix:<+>
 20:41
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masak sorear: what moritz said. I'd rather we try our best to make use of the well-meaning but silly people on p6l than alienate them by repeatedly pointing out their obvious irrelevance to them ;) 20:43
moritz I do wonder if, at some point, I should compose a politely formulated "raising the bar" mail 20:44
where I point out that we've raised the bar to change basic stuff
and that, if you propse changes with far-reaching consequences, we'll only take you seriously if you've prototyped it (which is usually quite possible, if you really care) 20:45
masak it's been pointed out a few times already.
moritz but then again it's probably again just wasted time
masak possibly.
moritz masak: happy with the error message in rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=111960 ?
masak the people who engage in p6l bikesheds/pie-in-the-sky moments do so because they aren't aware Perl 6 has moved on to a more solid phase of matter. 20:46
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masak moritz: ah, I was wondering what you were using the ⏏ symbol for. moritz++ 20:46
moritz for ejecting people from p6l. Silently :-) 20:47
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masak I had a different "raising the bar" thought earlier today. but it's not fully formed yet. 20:56
it's vaguely shaped like creating a prize/stipend/grant for people who take charge of clearing up fuzzy parts of the spec. 20:57
jnthn "Delete stuff! Get paid!" 21:00
moritz I have a commit like this coming up. Except the "Get paid!" part :-) 21:01
masak no, the "delete stuff" we seem to do fairly well ourselves. it's the "spec I/O" and "spec threading" that needs a push. 21:02
imagine if we could somehow nudge p6l into helping us there -- constructively, I mean.
these are still parts of the spec that need a bit of bikeshedding.
moritz one could do fine experimenting with IO classes and roles in rakudo 21:03
one could even do 99% of the prototyping out-of-core to avoid long recompilation phases 21:04
maybe even 100%
hey, you can write your own sub say, and have it picked up by all of your programs. How cool is that? 21:05
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masak I know! 21:09
moritz and you can even add your own lexical IO class 21:10
and so on
masak I once thought that would be a really cool use case for macros, but... turns out you can do it with just a sub.
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dalek kudo/nom: 34c3e35 | moritz++ | src/core/Failure.pm:
replace a wad of PIR code with Perl 6; also preserves the argument type of &fail
 21:24
fsergot good night #perl6 o/ 21:31
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jnthn yay, more Q:PIR banished 21:33
tadzik I like the 'try die' 21:34
dalek ast: 2f179c1 | moritz++ | S04-exceptions/fail.t:
test that fail() can handle typed exceptions
 21:40
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dalek kudo/nom: 57a6818 | pmichaud++ | src/core/ (3 files):
Merge branch 'nom' of github.com:rakudo/rakudo into nom
 21:58
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masak heh, a merge. :) 22:01
pmichaud yeah, sorry about that. 22:02
I forgot to push earlier and then ....
sorear moritz: How does raising the bar apply to the idea of renaming smartmatching to doorfrozzling? Its doability is self-evident, as is the fact that it will break no code whatsoever
jnthn ...somebody suggested renaming it to doorfrozzling?! 22:04
jnthn knows what a door is but has no idea how to frozzle one...
masak decides that "doorfrozzling" is perfect as a coinage for "fruitlessly discussing unimportant language trivia on p6l" 22:06
jnthn
.oO( The ideas never enter the house of spec, they just frozzle at the door )
 22:08
masak "I'm sorry, but this thread is just so full of doorfrozzle." 22:10
sorear jnthn: no, but they've suggested everything else 22:12
I thought Damian Conway was supposed to be somewhat sane, but he just dashed my hopes by proposing 'jibe' :|
colomon doorfrozzle. doorfrozzle. Doorfrozzle! (tune: Bicycle by Queen) 22:14
masak sorear: I liked 'jibe', but the whole thing sort of presupposes that there's a problem somewhere that needs solving. which I don't really see. 22:16
colomon++
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jnthn Dinner time & 22:30
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masak 'night, #perl6 22:53
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