»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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dalek blets: ef83e04 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
explaining smartmatch and lol and adding some other term dummies
 01:50
tadzik 'morning 01:51
phenny tadzik: 30 Apr 22:04Z <sisar> tell tadzik regarding popolnik, maybe you were looking for pastebin.com/hmjcndwB
lichtkind TimToady: had nothing to do with your ponderings :)
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tadzik phenny: tell sisar Thanks, that's more than I remembered :) 01:54
phenny tadzik: I'll pass that on when sisar is around.
moritz tadzik: sleepless too? 01:55
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tadzik moritz: not really, just came from a party 01:56
moritz tadzik: oh, that's a much nicer reason to be awake at this time of night 01:57
tadzik I slept through most part of Alice in Wonderland :)
moritz tries to sleep again
tadzik in particular, I don't remember anything between getting in a rabbit hole and getting out of it
but I do remember some quote saying "you won't remember anything". Which is kind of ironic 01:58
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sorear masak++ 02:42
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dalek blets: 3f58f27 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
refining some bits especially the subroutine entry
 04:00
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moritz oh shark 08:28
it's quiet in here today
JimmyZ \o
arnsholt Well, labour day is for not working, no? =) 08:29
moritz right 08:30
which means, by definition, hanging out in IRC :-)
arnsholt Troo, troo 08:31
moritz accidentally deleted his parrot 08:34
tadzik good morning 08:36
arnsholt moritz: So now you get to compile Rakudo all over again. Congrats =) 08:42
moritz tadzik: fwiw the 'smoker' script in emmentaler should probably be executable 08:44
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moritz tadzik: and the README says that neutro is a dependency 08:45
that should probably be panda
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cognominal \o/ what is the way/library for command switch processing? 08:55
arnsholt Just the MAIN sub I think 08:57
moritz yes 08:58
it covers some of the common cases
though arguably in the long run we'll need something more sophisticated
cognominal thx 09:00
moritz tadzik: gist.github.com/2566601 failure while bootstrapping panda 09:04
I have done a fresh clone of panda, and no local changes
tadzik moritz: oh, interesting 09:10
moritz: can you try removing ~/.panda/? 09:11
you may have some local changes there, ie ~/.panda/src/panda
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dalek rlito: ad3b918 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (6 files):
Perlito5 - javascript: implement $AUTOLOAD variable
 09:20
fglock labour day is a working day in the Netherlands :P 09:21
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masak good antenoon, #perl6 09:25
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masak TimToady: we have a non-smartmatch topicalizer. 09:28
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moritz yes, but it's verbosish 09:37
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jnthn It's the first of May, first of May! 09:40
...good morning, #perl6 :)
moritz good antenoon, jnthn :-)
tadzik: works after removing ~/.panda
jnthn :P
fglock good lunchtime! 09:45
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masak good noon! 09:59
dalek p: 480d22d | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CArray.c:
[CArray] Refactor bind_pos_boxed/at_pos_boxed.

Since we've added child_objs, we can cache the generated String objects as well, and eliminate the need for at/bind_pos_complex. 0dde8f3 | moritz++ | tools/lib/NQP/Configure.pm:
  [configure] automatically configure push urls
when cloning NQP or Parrot, automatically add an ssh-based pushurl, to make contributions easier for those with commit bits		 10:00
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arnsholt Durr? I didn't just push that commit I think... 10:01
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moritz arnsholt: oh, I'm sorry 10:01
arnsholt: I had locally merged that branch, and never meant to push it
arnsholt: and then I did another commit, forgot it, and pushed 10:02
:(
arnsholt: should I revert the merge?
masak do a git push --force
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masak it's only been 2 minutes. 10:02
moritz ok
masak++ arnsholt++ 10:03
arnsholt Oh, right
arnsholt I think the commit is good
moritz arnsholt: it wasn't just that commit, it was the whole branch. dalek just reported one
arnsholt I was just a bit confused by me committing something while working on something else =)
moritz arnsholt: I'll let you do the merge once you decide it's time for it
note to self: make a different branch for testing local merges 10:05
arnsholt I recently fixed git push to only push the current branch
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moritz well, that doesn't help when I locally merge your branch into master for testing :-) 10:08
arnsholt Right ^_^
moritz corte.si/posts/code/pathod/announce0_1.html # that looks quite cool 10:10
dalek mentaler: 90ae502 | tadzik++ | / (21 files):
Remove obsolete files
mentaler: b7843aa | tadzik++ | smoker (2 files):
Make smoker executable
mentaler: 01a2fb5 | tadzik++ | formatter (2 files):
Rename formatter, make it executable
mentaler: d51daf8 | tadzik++ | README:
Update README
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jnthn
.oO( I'm not for smoking, but it's executing smokers a little harsh? )
 10:11
*isn't
masak moritz: nice.
jnthn: they're only being made executable. 10:12
jnthn masak: I know but the temptation it'll unleash... :P
masak like a craving.
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arnsholt Let's see if I can't unbreak my NQP 10:18
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jnthn oh noes, you broke it? 10:18
arnsholt Well, only locally =)
But ever since I tried to add my CStr repr to the build process, it complains about not being able to locate the nqp_dyncall_ops shared lib 10:19
jnthn Hm
That's...very odd.
moritz arnsholt: what to paste the diff to Makefile.in?
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arnsholt Yeah. I'm thinking that it's not actually a failure to locate but a failure to load 10:20
I'm trying to rebuild without the CStr repr right now. I'll come back with the diff if it's still broken
colomon anyone out there understand how #?DOES is supposed to work in fudge? 10:22
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moritz colomon: there are two ways it can work 10:22
colomon: you can put it in front of a block, and do a #?impl skip 'reason'. Then it will skip as many tests as the number after #?DOES 10:23
colomon: or you can put it in front of a function. In which case fudge considers that function a normal test function like ok() or is(), and that it runs the specified number of tests
does t/spec/S02-magicals/env.t pass on current rakudo? 10:24
colomon what I'm running into at the moment is that the value (at least using niecza's fudgeandrun) appears to be sticky 10:25
jnthn Not here, but I thought that may be Windows specific.
colomon that is, I say #?DOES 3 before a block, and every skip after that is getting marked as 3 tests.
arnsholt There, I fixed it
Combination of two errors. One brain-dead copy-pasta, and one line I forgot to update in Makefile.in 10:26
moritz jnthn: do Test::Util based tests run on windows now?
jnthn moritz: yeah 10:27
moritz \o/
jnthn I have vastly less failures these days
moritz jnthn: what failures remain?
dalek kudo/nom: 5552804 | moritz++ | docs/ChangeLog:
fill in some ChangeLog entries
jnthn moritz: Mostly ones in the pod tests due to \r\n related parse issues 10:28
colomon moritz: never mind, deleting the #?DOES commands I'd added and switching to the function version made it work beautifully.
moritz colomon: good
jnthn moritz: Can do a run now to see the full list
arnsholt jnthn: BTW, after some thought I'm not sure I'm happy with manually-manage(). What do you think about explicitly-manage? 10:29
dalek ast: 4d31087 | (Solomon Foster)++ | S03-operators/short-circuit.t:
Add proper #?DOES for accumtest, unfudge test that now works in Niecza.
arnsholt It's not manually managing memory in the sense of malloc/free, after all
jnthn keep-alive(...) :) 10:30
arnsholt Heh. That makes me think of HTTP =)
jnthn Yeah, that was kinda deliberate.
Instead of a re-marshall for every call, we marshall once and re-use that every call. :) 10:31
arnsholt Point, point
jnthn It's probably a "you think it's cute today" name though :)
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arnsholt Does have that potential, yeah 10:31
moritz r: say %*ENV<notthere>.defined 10:33
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«True␤»
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moritz tadzik: ^^ that's a regression from your patches 10:33
r: say %*ENV<notthere>.WHAT
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«Str()␤»
moritz r: say %*ENV<notthere>.perl 10:34
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«""␤»
moritz tadzik: at least I think so
tadzik moritz: it would seem so, yes
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tadzik it may be that from a system's POV there's no difference between an unset variable and a variable set to "" 10:35
will investigate
moritz there is, I think
jnthn 4, 5, 9 and 15 from env.t fail here 10:36
tadzik investigates
moritz tadzik: I'm fudging the tests for now
tadzik okay, thanks
dalek ast: f5b0e56 | moritz++ | S02-magicals/env.t:
[env.t] redo tests for child process %*ENV with Test::Util

Also re-fudge for rakudo
jnthn moritz: Do you have a failure in S10-packages/basic.t? 10:37
moritz jnthn: no 10:38
jnthn Oddness.
moritz jnthn: which one fails? 10:39
jnthn 47
tadzik may it be that get_string_keyed VTABLE always returns a string, even ""?
jnthn And it looks like a really weird failure to be Windows-specific...
tadzik tries a patch
jnthn tadzik: You can nqp::existskey to check for existence and do soemthing different. 10:40
tadzik right
what should an unset var return, a Str type object? 10:41
moritz r: my %h; say %h<foo>.perl 10:42
p6eval rakudo 2da78a: OUTPUT«Any␤»
moritz tadzik: sound sensible
tadzik Got it
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moritz jnthn: any idea how I could implement the -I (search path) command line option? 11:04
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moritz jnthn: the question is, where do we store the additional search paths, and when do we stuff them into @*INC? 11:04
jnthn moritz: Guess it wants similar handling to PERL6LIB?
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moritz jnthn: ok, that answers the "when" 11:06
jnthn moritz: It all happens in term.pm
moritz jnthn: but where do we store it? in the Perl6::Compiler object?
or HLL::Compiler, for that matter?
jnthn Oh, you mean where is it kept?
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moritz yes 11:07
between parsing it and the run time of the setting
jnthn You're in the dynamic context of the compiler when the setting is being loaded. 11:08
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jnthn In Actions.pm to find the --setting=... we do %*COMPILING<%?OPTIONS><setting> 11:08
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moritz oh 11:08
jnthn You'll need to use nqp::atkey(...) blah in the setting though
moritz so I can just access %*COMPILING<%?OPTIONS><I>
jnthn e.g. not do Perl 6 style keying...
Yeah
moritz hm, I thought it worked 11:09
jnthn You can always try it out in a BEGIN block to figure out how to get hold of it.
moritz because of how we marshal parrot stuff to Perl 6 types
jnthn We marshall return values from method calls.
Don't think we marshall contextual lookups.
bbi10, eating brunch :)
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dalek nqp: 480d22d | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CArray.c: 11:16
nqp: [CArray] Refactor bind_pos_boxed/at_pos_boxed.
nqp:
nqp: Since we've added child_objs, we can cache the generated String objects as
nqp: well, and eliminate the need for at/bind_pos_complex.
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arnsholt Hmm. I think dalek needs some kind of rate limiting 11:16
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arnsholt But now the write-barrier stuff is in master 11:19
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dalek volaj: 3b4926f | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | t/07-writebarrier. (2 files):
Add tests for write-barriering of CArray and CStruct types.
 11:22
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jnthn arnsholt++ 11:24
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tadzik FETCH cannot return Any? 11:24
it seems to segfault rakudo when I do it in the setting 11:25
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jnthn doesn't see why it couldn't 11:25
tadzik hm 11:26
gist.github.com/2567462 11:28
jnthn alive3 11:30
I don't see taht in the code?
tadzik oh
it's the third "alive"
jnthn tadzik: uh 11:31
tadzik must've undoed something accidentaly
jnthn YOu're returning
tadzik so it blows up on "return Any"
jnthn "return"
Yeah
YOu don't want to do taht.
That returns from the at_key
tadzik oh
jnthn Not from the closure you're FETCHing.
FETCH => {
That's just a closure, so it's transparent to return.
arnsholt I just have to mention that I <3 git
jnthn Just remove the return statements. 11:32
tadzik I think it's the second time I stumble upon this :)
dalek rlito: 000df64 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - javascript: implement infix:<**>
tadzik thanks jnthn
arnsholt Make WIP commit on branch, do stuff in a couple other branches, come back to original branch, reset HEAD^ and pick off where I left
No idea what I'd done if this were svn
tadzik I usually use stash for this 11:33
arnsholt Yeah, it's essentially a manual stash
But I had some new source files I wanted to get out of the way since I was going to merge my feature branch into master 11:34
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arnsholt Which would be git stash -u, I see now that I bother to read the docs again O:) 11:34
moritz arnsholt: to be fair, svn makes working with dirty trees much easier than git 11:35
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arnsholt Dirty tree yes, but I'm starting to quite like the pattern of temporary WIP commits to get things out of the way 11:36
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dalek p/toqast: 07ab3c7 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/ (2 files):
Sketch out 'bind' op; since it's sensitive to the variable type, the real work on this will be done by the QAST::Var processor.
 11:58
p/toqast: d8fd160 | jnthn++ | src/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
Implement lookup of and binding to locals; handles natively typed ones right off (which PAST never did).
p/toqast: b67c3b8 | jnthn++ | t/qast/qast.t:
Some very basic tests for binding to a local of the various native types, and ensuring a bind works as an rvalue too (e.g. we return the bound value).
jnthn -> store, hope it's open!
sjn jnthn: good luck with that 11:59
mayday is pretty important here in the nordics :)
moritz jnthn: fwiw I noticed that nqp::shift can be both shifting off an RPA or off an iterator 12:04
jnthn: i guess for compatibilty with other ops we might want an nqp::itershift or so
moritz has a working prototype for -I lib 12:06
masak nice: www.utf8everywhere.org/ 12:07
moritz aye, though I think some parts of it are technically not well done 12:08
for one they focus quite a bit on C++
sjn writes a hackathon report
anyone here want to give me some ideas of what worked and what didn't so much? :)
moritz and then they don't actually tell you how to do some operations (like substr) on the Codepoint or character leven with UTF-8 12:09
sjn: worked: nice location, good information upfront, good food, good hacking
sjn: not worked: discussing all the topics you guys suggested up front 12:10
rsimoes "unicode everywhere" might be more palatable
sjn moritz: yep, good point
rsimoes since it's not obvious to everyone that utf8 is preferable over alternatives 12:11
dalek ast: 353a80c | tadzik++ | S02-magicals/env.t:
Untodo passing %*ENV tests
 12:14
kudo/nom: e9d0bbb | tadzik++ | src/core/terms.pm:
Fix %*ENV regressions
 12:15
jnthn sjn: My local coop seems pretty immune to red days :) 12:16
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jnthn sjn: Venue was great and easy to work undistracted, good supply of coffee and nom, well organized everything, good balance of hacking/socializing. 12:19
masak jnthn: local coop doesn't respect May 1? Bloody commies! oh wait :P 12:21
jnthn masak: If they're not supporting a *red* day, how are they... :P
masak and it's a *co-op*!
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dalek kudo/nom: 4c241c8 | moritz++ | / (3 files):
implement -I command line option
 12:21
masak I guess they've been corrupted by soulless profiteering or something. 12:22
jnthn sjn: As moritz mentioned, we didn't manage to discuss all the topics suggested up front... I wonder if there's some degree to which if you put a bunch of people who already have a bunch of interesting problems to work together though, they'll reliably and quite happily self-organize without needing a theme.
sjn notes that the Swedes are slowly turning into American Capitalist Pigs :) 12:23
jnthn: how about friday? 12:24
sjn has no clue what you guys spent your time on, on friday
jnthn sjn: We discussed stuff and hacked on stuff.
sjn that day kinda became a "bonus day"
jnthn sjn: Getting us a place to be able to do so was a big win. 12:25
sjn jnthn: so when you "good balance of hacking/socializing", you took friday into account
you said* 12:26
jnthn sjn: Yes.
sjn: Friday was productive in the day and social in the evening :)
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jnthn (For those of us around early enough to hack on Friday, that is.) 12:26
moritz sjn: as a summary, I for one was very happy with the hackathon 12:29
jnthn Same. I was only sad on Monday, when I realized that the hackathon had come to an end. :) 12:31
And thought "gee, why can't all days be that much fun?" :)
masak I thought "what if every day at work at clients were like this?" i.e. brimming with creativity around a table, people just exchange information freely when they need to, and everyone gets a lot done on whatever they want. and somehow lunch just materializes. :P 12:35
moritz it didn't materialize; krunen++ usually was involved with preparing it :-) 12:36
masak I know... :)
krunen++
moritz sjn++ krunen++ frettled++
masak I agree on the Friday being a big win. the hackathon still felt short, but the Friday sure helped to gear into it.
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[Coke] seen ambs? 12:38
aloha ambs was last seen in #parrot 139 days 1 hours ago joining the channel.
[Coke] I didn't see any perl6 submissions for grants this quarter! 12:39
(granted, I forgot to squawk about it here...) 12:40
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jnthn oh darn, I still didn't file my final report for my current one! 12:41
masak jnthn: what's blocking you? 12:43
jnthn masak: Finding it more fun to write code than to write prose :P 12:44
(So basically, nothing besides getting around to it.)
[Coke] does anyone have any thing they'd work on if only someone would pay them to? 12:45
tadzik well, if one could start in July... 12:46
masak .oO( drinking pina coladas on an idyllic beach in Thailand... )
oh, "work"... :P 12:47
jnthn I'd work on a microbrewery tour?
:)
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jnthn will actually file a grant after this to do compact arrays and other S09 goodness. 12:47
*after this one
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masak \o/ 12:47
PerlJam [Coke]: money and tuits aren't fungible. Even if TPF has money to give, it's the tuits that are the real problem. 12:48
masak still, asking doesn't hurt.
jnthn Aye
PerlJam indeed
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PerlJam It would be neat if TPF had a "make a wish" kind of grant where TPF takes care of whatever details are required to obtain the appropriate tuits for you to work on some Perl thing. 12:50
:-)
moritz [Coke]: I might. But I'm still working on that exceptions grant
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dalek p/toqast: 28c8f73 | jnthn++ | t/qast/qast.t:
Make sure simple lookups of locals work too.
 12:54
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dalek blets: a3c24a0 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/report.pl:
regularize report script
 13:50
blets: 56dfda4 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/appendix-g-glossary.txt:
small format fixe
arnsholt Segfault! \o/ 13:57
tadzik \o/
always funy
dalek rlito: b44f592 | (Flavio S. Glock)++ | / (2 files):
Perlito5 - TODO update
 13:58
arnsholt Yeah. Also, it means that I managed to get my new NQP C code to run from Perl 6 =)
Oh, dang. I forgot to set debug flags in my Parrot 14:01
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sergot hi o/ 14:02
tadzik hi fs
aw. hi sergot
colomon is trying out emmentaler locally.... 14:07
masak o rekin, sergocie. 14:10
sergot masak: why 'rekin'? :) 14:11
masak .oO( when they dissect masak's brain in 2076, and discover that he knows the vocative of "shark" in Polish really well, but almost no other Polish... )
sergot: you asked that yesterday!
I said you should check the backlog, but apparently I chose a word that means "to-do list". 14:12
so you probably never did :)
sergot masak: Oh, ok. :)
masak sergot: the explanation is that "hai" means "shark" in a couple languages, and tadzik realized this and started saying "oh shark" instead of "oh hai". 14:14
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sergot :) 14:17
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dalek blets: dca1063 | (Herbert Breunung)++ | docs/report.pl:
report now includes all tablets
 14:20
colomon tadzik: perl-5.14 required? 14:21
colomon turns back on his perlbrew...
tadzik colomon: uh, shouldn't be
that reminds me to write the Perl 5 dependencies
I suppose even 5.8 will do
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colomon tadzik: formatter, line 2: use 5.014; 14:22
tadzik right 14:23
it's just a habit of mine, so I have say() and all this
I'm now sanitizing this file a little bit
colomon sure, 5.14 is cool
\o/
successfully generated my own emmentaler HTML page. 14:24
tadzik yay!
colomon now to hack it to run under niecza... ;)
well, actually, now to $work, and p6 hacking for later
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flussence
.oO( would be nice for my $dayjob stuff if I could write "use $specific-perlbrew-install-alias;"... )
 14:25
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dalek mentaler: d6058c1 | tadzik++ | formatter:
Simplify formatter
 14:27
mentaler: e12a40a | tadzik++ | README:
Note Perl 5 dependencies in README
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tadzik frowns at perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html#Double-u...core_forms 14:45
in particular at having a separate variable for every POd block type 14:46
masak well, it would feel a bit silly to have a = twigil just to get $=pod 14:47
tadzik that too ;)
masak =begin DATA 14:48
didn't we lower-case 'DATA' to 'data'?
i.e. shouldn't S02 play catch-up with S26 there?
tadzik should 14:49
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tadzik hmm, that shouldn't be too hard to implement, maybe 14:50
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masak oh, and '=begin END' is '=begin finish' now. 14:51
the prose says it, but the table doesn't.
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masak wonders if we have a spectest to make sure that '=end finish' is treated as verbatim text, not a directive 14:53
[Coke] ... begin finish?
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masak [Coke]: usually just =finish 14:53
[Coke]: Perl 6's __END__
[Coke] just read funny.
(no funnier than begin end, I suppose. ;)
masak no :) 14:54
and =end is problematic
so =finish it became.
it's good 'cus its dual noun/verb.
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[Coke] I would have preferred "stop", I think. 14:55
but, close enough. ;)
masak that reads wrong to me.
sure, the Perl 6 parser stops caring, but the Pod parser is just getting warmed up! :) 14:56
whereas "finish" has connotations of "and now, the big finish!"
(especially =begin finish)
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PerlJam thinks finale would work better there :) 14:57
masak sure, but it's just noun-y. 14:58
I kinda like finale, though.
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masak p6: s[ish] = 'ale' given my $directive = 'finish'; say $directive 15:17
p6eval rakudo 4c241c, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«finale␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
masak still thinks that syntax is awesome sauce
tadzik how does one iterate over a hash in nqp? 15:18
masak .oO( very carefully )
jnthn for %hash { }
tadzik and I get a pair inside?
jnthn for %hash { say($_.key); say($_.value) }
tadzik okay, thanks
jnthn pzh 15:19
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arnsholt jnthn: In case you wondered, 6model isn't happy if a REPR forgets to implement the initialize method O:) 15:19
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jnthn arnsholt: er, I imagine not, no :) 15:19
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PerlJam masak: for half a second I was confused about how you were accessing the "ish" element of the s array ;) 15:20
jnthn Oh, I just saw "ale" in the code and assumed it must be awesome code.
PerlJam heh
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masak r: constant s = (1, 2, 3); s[ish] = 'ale' given my $directive = 'finish' 15:23
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: ( no output )
masak r: constant s = (1, 2, 3); s[ish] = 'ale' given my $directive = 'finish'; say $directive
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«finale␤»
masak PerlJam: seems s[] is almost as much a special form in Perl 6 as in Perl 5 15:24
in Perl 5 it's kinda tricky to invoke a 'sub s'... :)
jnthn r: sub s { "yes?" }; say s()
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«yes?␤»
arnsholt If $x does ARole, $x ~~ ARole, right? 15:25
masak yes.
infix:<~~> is a kind of mechanism-agnostic type checker.
works on classes, roles, subtypes, and things we haven't thought of yet ;)
pmichaud good morning, #perl6 15:27
masak pmichaud! \o/ \o/ 15:28
arnsholt Yeah, that's what I thought, but I had a moment of doubt =)
tadzik okay, I got stuff like $=DATA working. The problem is, the optimizer catches their usage before I construct them, so I have to do eval '$=DATA' :) 15:29
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masak r: class ReallyGrumpyType { method ACCPETS($) { False } }; say ReallyGrumpyType.new ~~ ReallyGrumpyType 15:29
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«True␤»
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masak dang :) 15:29
arnsholt jnthn: Any particular reason the various DYNCALL_ARG_* constants are all even numbers?
masak r: class ReallyGrumpyType { method ACCPETS($self:U: $) { False } }; say ReallyGrumpyType.new ~~ ReallyGrumpyType
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Capture'␤»
masak tadzik: then the optimizer is wrong. 15:30
tadzik masak: probably. It's funny, for it doesn't catch $=pod this way
arnsholt r: class ReallyGrumpyType { method ACCEPTS($self:U: $) { False } }; say ReallyGrumpyType.new ~~ ReallyGrumpyType
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤invoke() not implemented in class 'Capture'␤»
arnsholt Oh, not that. 15:31
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dalek kudo/named_pod_vars: a2db837 | tadzik++ | src/Perl6/ (2 files):
First attempt at implementing Pod variables like $=data, $=SYNOPSIS etc
 15:33
arnsholt jnthn: Never mind. I see it
MContagious1 Hey how can I help? 15:34
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tadzik hello MContagious1! What would you like to do? 15:34
MContagious1 I am basically Perl5 developer and can help you on testing with perl6 code 15:35
tadzik are you interested in compiler development, or module development? 15:36
MContagious1 module dev
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masak MContagious1: hiya! welcome. 15:37
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tadzik we have a module repository, see modules.perl6.org/ Modules are in various stages of workingness, see tjs.azalayah.net/new.html You may want to look at some code, possibly revive some outdated module or write a new one 15:37
MContagious1 masak:thank you
tadzik:checking them 15:38
tadzik we also have a list of Most Wanted Modules, github.com/perl6/ecosystem/wiki/Mo...ed-Modules
masak MContagious1: we're currently expanding in web, databases, and irc bots. pick whatever pleases you and dig in.
tadzik++
MContagious1: you'll know you're on the right track when people start to ++ you ;)
MContagious1 :) 15:39
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tadzik colomon: do you have some fresh results.json lying around? 15:57
colomon er, yes, but there's absolutely nothing special about them 15:58
tadzik if there are generated they are fine for me, I have a limited bandwith right now to run the script, but I need them for some experimenting. Can you paste them somewhere?
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lichtkind what is the difference between term an expression? 16:02
arnsholt Mmm. Cargo-culting code 16:03
masak lichtkind: a term is one "thing" in the code. like 42 or "OH HAI" or [1, 2, 3] 16:04
lichtkind: an expression is a well-formed sequence of terms and operators.
PerlJam lichtkind: terms are nouns, operators are verbs, expressions are sentences (sorta) :-) 16:05
goraki Hi there, can someone tell me the best way to read stdin line by line (e.g. process each line as the user hits return) in perl 6?
PerlJam mayhap I stretch the analogy
masak terms are tightest-precedence in the op precedence table because they're like the "atoms" of code
tadzik goraki: for $*IN.lines should be fine
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masak goraki: or just 'for lines() { ... $_ ... }' 16:06
tadzik r: for $*IN.lines -> $line { say $line.uc }
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p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«LAND DER BERGE, LAND AM STROME,␤LAND DER ÄCKER, LAND DER DOME,␤LAND DER HÄMMER, ZUKUNFTSREICH!␤HEIMAT BIST DU GROSSER SÖHNE,␤VOLK, BEGNADET FÜR DAS SCHÖNE,␤VIELGERÜHMTES ÖSTERREICH,␤VIELGERÜHMTES ÖSTERREICH!␤␤HEISS UMFEHDET, WILD UMSTRITTEN␤LIEGST DEM ERDTEIL DU IN… 16:06
masak both work. don't remove those parens, though :)
tadzik: there's no need to schaut... :)
tadzik oh, sorry;
r: for $*IN.lines -> $line { say $line.lc }
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«land der berge, land am strome,␤land der äcker, land der dome,␤land der hämmer, zukunftsreich!␤heimat bist du großer söhne,␤volk, begnadet für das schöne,␤vielgerühmtes österreich,␤vielgerühmtes österreich!␤␤heiß umfehdet, wild umstritten␤liegst dem erdteil du inmi…
arnsholt If you prefer recursive definitions: a term is the smallest (atomic) expression, while an expression in genereal maybe composed of many smaller expressions with the help of operators
masak aye. 16:07
the terms are the stuff and the operators are the glue. together, they form expressions.
goraki tadzik: masak: when I run either I don't get any output until I hit ctrl-d to "end" the input.
masak goraki: let my try locally. 16:08
my gosh, you're right!
goraki masak: ta.
masak submits rakudobug
goraki masak: (-:
masak goraki: your request has been filed. thank you for noticing.
PerlJam wait... that's a bug?
masak sure.
tadzik sure
masak lines() is supposed to be lazy. 16:09
goraki masak: no worries.
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goraki masak: thanks for listening. 16:09
masak that we're happy to do. 16:10
let us know if you notice something else that's odd.
goraki will do. 16:11
masak your request can now be followed at rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=112716
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TimToady is starting to think we should scrap =begin finish and just replace it with something like ======================= 16:14
PerlJam TimToady: I still like "=begin finale" :-) 16:15
TimToady this whole business of allowing a special exemption for an unbalanced =begin or =end just stinks
sjn is a fan of markdown </blasphemy> :)
TimToady all we're doing is turning off the Perl 6 parser 16:16
and the Pod parser (almost) doesn't care about that
jnthn tadzik: The...optimizer is whining at you about undeclared variables? 16:17
TimToady and the reason it was END before was so that it would stand out visually
jnthn tadzik: I didn't think it did that :)
TimToady is not a fan of lowercasing it
tadzik jnthn: yeah, it does :)
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TimToady but =================== stands out visually 16:17
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jnthn tadzik: --optimize=off makes the issue go away? 16:17
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PerlJam TimToady: how many = is that again? :P 16:18
tadzik jnthn: gist.github.com/2569314 on pod_named_vars branch, or however I named it
jnthn: dunno, let me recompiler
TimToady more than N, where N is negotiable
tadzik named__pod_vars
PerlJam TimToady: I vote N = 4 then
well, N=3 for "more than"
TimToady and it has to be where a pod directive is expected, I suppose 16:19
jnthn tadzik: When is $=DATA being declared?
tadzik jnthn: POd parser declares it
jnthn Before we'd parse the say $=DATA ?
masak TimToady: I agree about the stink.
tadzik jnthn: er, I don't think so 16:20
TimToady in that sense __END__ was an improvement on its successors
tadzik it installs the lexical symbol after we're done parsing the file
same for $=pod
masak ===== could also be a merge garbage marker, but I guess we catch it at '<<<', so that should be fine.
TimToady well, we could require more of 'em 16:21
jnthn tadzik: Then it's too late.
tadzik: It's not the optimizer
tadzik: It's the same thing that catches:
r: say $a; my $a;
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $a is not declared␤at /tmp/ZXr8utD5lR:1␤»
tadzik I see
still, why does it work for $=pod just fine?
masak TimToady: +1
jnthn tadzik: no eye deer 16:22
tadzik :)
jnthn tadzik: er
tadzik: I think I can guess actually and this is disgusting :)
tadzik :P
jnthn tadzik: It's because CORE.setting ends up with a $=pod
:P
tadzik go ahed, I'll pour me some juice
jnthn And thus is in the outer lexical scope :) 16:23
tadzik noooooo
how is it possible
pmichaud re: RT #112716 I suspect the problem isn't that lines() isn't lazy, but rather that the for statement isn't running in sink context
jnthn The $=pod installation is not conditional. 16:24
pmichaud! \o/
dalek p/cstr: eee0fa5 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | / (4 files):
First cut of handling explicitly managed strings.
tadzik oh, I see now
jnthn pmichaud: Nice to see you :)
PerlJam TimToady: or we could use a slightly more complicated token that starts with =
tadzik gosh. I though we put my $=pod at the end of the setting to prevent this issue
jnthn tadzik: No, it's not quite *that* bad :)
tadzik: Things are working a little too accidentally at the moment though :) 16:25
PerlJam TimToady: =!!!=
tadzik okay. Could we turn of the undefined variable worning for $= vars?
pmichaud oh, maybe not.
PerlJam (for instance)
arnsholt jnthn: Could you take a look at that NQP commit and see if something appears to be completely insane?
tadzik . o O ( good worning )
TimToady =ö=
PerlJam TimToady: :-)
arnsholt I've got a simple test in Zavolaj that passes, but I'm still not entirely convinced I did it right =)
jnthn tadzik: Yeah
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tadzik jnthn: I'll try to do that 16:26
jnthn tadzik: So long as $=FLYING-CARROT doesn't blow up in an excessively bad way :)
tadzik still, the spec for those $=vars is ... what?
jnthn I dunno. Is it a closed set, or...? :) 16:27
TimToady my carrots usually fly after they blow up...
tadzik no, it's potentially infinite
you are free to write a =begin FLYING-CARROT block
lichtkind masa, PerlJam thanks
tadzik but I see what you mean
lichtkind masak++, PerlJam++ thanks
jnthn Well, I was angling for a name that nobody would ever declare, but now somebody probably is going to go and do that one in their module docs :P 16:28
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PerlJam jnthn: you've just created another Perl 6 meme! ;) 16:29
tadzik I'm commiting that to Acme::Meow right now
masak Acme::Flying::Carrots
jnthn oops :P 16:30
tadzik github.com/tadzik/perl6-Acme-Meow/...562be0e66d
I wonder what the Pod renderer will do with that 16:31
jnthn tadzik: :P
tadzik ha, it does nothing. Cool!
I'll now put it everywhere
masak better than flying sharks, with frigging lasers on their heads.
tadzik I'm now commiting that to panda 16:32
;) 16:33
> ./perl6 -e 'say $=FLYING-CARROT'
Null PMC access in find_method('gist')
yeah :/
masak r: say $=FLYING-CARROT 16:34
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $=FLYING-CARROT is not declared␤at /tmp/v3FQHfDkpM:1␤»
masak \o/
tadzik that's not too good either 16:35
r: =begin FLYING-CARROT␤bl bla␤=end FLYING-CARROT␤say $=FLYING-CARROT
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $=FLYING-CARROT is not declared␤at /tmp/cDUAeKuX7t:4␤»
PerlJam What's the scoping on pod variables? 16:36
tadzik they're file scoped
PerlJam there's not some magic POD package they all live in? 16:37
tadzik nope
colomon tadzik: sorry for the delay! gist.github.com/2569482 # didn't name it, but that's my results.json 16:38
tadzik thanks :)
wow, that's a fast machine 16:39
colomon tadzik: ? 16:41
tadzik colomon: 10 minutes, about twice as fast as mine :) 16:43
colomon oh, the 607 is the run time in seconds? 16:44
pmichaud re: #112716 --- lines() itself is sufficiently lazy
when run from the REPL, it's in sink context though
colomon tadzik: it's a fairly nice MacBook Pro
pmichaud sorry
when run from the REPL, it's not in sink context 16:45
TimToady ==END==
optionally
==END== ==END== ==END== ==END== ==END== ==END== ==END==
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TimToady that's...visible... 16:46
PerlJam TimToady: +1
tadzik colomon: aye
PerlJam TimToady: but not ===END== or ==END=== or ==END========= or ==END==END==END== ?
tadzik colomon: formatter prints that at the bottom of the html file 16:47
colomon tadzik++
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TimToady allowing those would be just Too Darn Fancy 16:47
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TimToady but if we match / '==END==' \N* / then we can have: 16:48
==END====END====END====END====END==
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[Coke] wishes github had a "display formatted json" option for json files. 16:48
TimToady or ==END==anythingelse
PerlJam TimToady: right. and that seems reasonable to me. 16:49
TimToady well, the p6 part of the parser just stops at the first ==END==, so it only matters what Pod thinks of that line
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TimToady but a weird singleton pod directive feels rightish to me, and also resonates with the old __END__ 16:51
PerlJam indeed. 16:52
pmichaud gist.github.com/2569584 # lines() is lazy, it's .map that is batching things up 16:53
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pmichaud my $munched := $!list.munch($argc * $count); 16:55
that's the problem line.
jnthn That's also the line that made iteration performance in the "for 1..10000 { ... }" case an order of magnitude better, fwiw. 16:56
pmichaud right
but obviously it's making .map not lazy
jnthn Well, not lazy enough for this case, at least. :)
pmichaud (this is at least one of the bugs I alluded to in the sunday afternoon "lists" session at the hackathon, fwiw. :-) 16:57
jnthn *nod*
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jnthn Now we just need a way that's (a) lazy enough and (b) keeps the performance win ;) 16:57
pmichaud the solution is to fix .munch
jnthn ok.
pmichaud I can work on that today, I think.
jnthn ooh :)
pmichaud if not today then tomorrow
jnthn ++pmichaud 16:58
pmichaud: Any idea when the mark_commit tuits may appear?
pmichaud sadly, no.
jnthn OK.
pmichaud it's still on my mental "I really need to get that done" list
jnthn Yeah, it's a pain point, for Rakudo and also for qbootstrap. 16:59
pmichaud yes, I understand. I'm not comfortable with letting it remain in the May release, if that's worth anything.
So, upper-bound is two weeks.
jnthn wfm
I've slowly chipping away at QAST.
pmichaud jnthn++ 17:00
jnthn It already does at least one thing PAST never did. :)
(natively typed register vars)
One question I had. Do we use floating point anywhere in NQP? 17:01
At the moment it seems everything gets done with Float PMCs. 17:02
pmichaud basically all of the arithmetic and numeric relops use the __NN opcodes
because .... those are the only ones available that can understand floating point :) 17:03
jnthn Hm.
Things are gonna get icky there, I fear. 17:04
pmichaud I'm not exactly comfortable with saying that NQP should be an integer-only language
or even that it should default to ints
jnthn I'm not exaclty proposing it :)
It's more that we'll have a "my int $a" and "my num $b" distinction. 17:05
pmichaud anyway, since parrot's notion of number tends to be "num" or "Float", that's what NQP generally ends up with
jnthn We already do for natively typed attributes.
Yeah, I'm worrying about "beyond Parrot" at this point. :)
When I did the early NQP on the CLR port, I actually had it multiple-dispatching the operators. 17:06
pmichaud well, it would be okay with me if NQP had a way of translating operators like + - * / into typed instructions
jnthn I'm not sure I want to go there either though.
I guess I'd be OK with static overloading.
Taht is, if we see it's an int + and int, we just say "oh, use add_i" 17:07
pmichaud at the time I was writing NQP, though, always using num was a way to avoid having to do a lot of type analysis in PAST and/or NQP
jnthn Doing type analysis is easier once you have a type system. :)
pmichaud (especially since it was going to be som..... exactly.)
jnthn Anyway, making NQP an integer-only language felt odd to me, so if it doesn't feel right to you that probably confirms it's the wrong way. :) 17:08
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tadzik tjs.azalayah.net/mpo.html -- thoughts? 17:14
sorear good * #perl6 17:15
masak++
tadzik hello sorear
colomon tadzik: Lingua::EN::Numbers::Ordinal overlaps its description on my machine
tadzik colomon: same here
benabik Same here.
jnthn Same here
colomon \o/ 17:16
tadzik and same on modules.perl6.org, fwiw
colomon write once, overlap everywhere!
tadzik \o/
dalek href="https://modules.perl6.org/test_results:">modules.perl6.org/test_results: e511f1e | tadzik++ | web/ (4 files):
Add badges for smoketesting results
 17:17
PerlJam tadzik: put the module name at the top and the description below it?
tadzik patches welcome
PerlJam: maybe, I don't know, I'm no HTML wizard :)
PerlJam me either 17:18
tadzik I only added those smoke testing badges
masak sorear: thanks. again :) 17:19
sorear: you're right, it was easy.
TimToady++ spotted an URL that I hadn't tested properly, but that was the only real mishap. 17:20
colomon Why is Smart::Match on the Perl 6 module wish list? 17:21
tadzik I think I put it there 17:22
I think it 17:23
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tadzik 's quite nice, utilities like contains(), positive(), more_than() or whatnot 17:23
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tadzik maybe there are better ways, but it seemed nice when I looked at it 17:24
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MContagious can I know how to use perl -e (perl onliners) to import module like in perl5 ? 17:26
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tadzik what do you mean? Like perl6 -e 'use Foo; something()'? 17:27
MContagious we need to import modules in the actual code.. Is there a flag to import modules like -AM in perl5 ? 17:28
sorry '-M'
PerlJam MContagious: you want the perl6 equivalent to perl -MFoo -e '...' ?? 17:29
MContagious yeah
tadzik I'm afraid there isn't any
PerlJam perl6 -e 'use Foo; ...' is it
colomon tadzik: positive is just * > 0 in p6, more_than is * > $cutoff
jnthn Though, moritz++ implemented -I earlier today. -M should be possible too :) 17:30
tadzik colomon: okay, feel free to remove it then
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colomon tadzik: still not sure it's completely useless, mind you. :) 17:30
tadzik :) 17:31
clearly not the Most Wanted thing 17:32
MContagious jnthn:It will be cool if -M supported :)
masak MContagious: I could easily write a shell script for you that emulates that ;) 17:33
tadzik hey, it was supposed to be easier to port a shell than a shell script ;) 17:34
also, it's particulary nice for perl -MCarp::Always::Color script.pl 17:35
MContagious tadzik:yes 17:36
it will be helpful to make modules like ExtUtils::Command 17:38
tadzik tjs.azalayah.net/mpo.html updated 17:41
moritz \o
tadzik ExtUtils should be quite possible, as an extension of Shell::Command or something
hello moritz
dalek osystem: e21e4a6 | tadzik++ | META.list:
Remove Digest-sum, it's gone from Github
 17:43
sorear masak: I'm a little suprised you were about to upload the zip file 17:50
s/about/able/ 17:51
masak really, why? 17:52
moritz thinks that lines() is lazy, but that 'for' is overly eager 17:55
masak could be. 18:03
is there any experiment that would yield support for this hypothesis? 18:04
tadzik pmichaud's gist I suppose
jnthn Yeah, pmichaud++'s gist showed it up pretty well 18:05
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uvtc phenny, tell sjn I'm a fan of markdown too. I haven't read S26 too carefully, but it would be nice if I could just do =begin markdown ... =end markdown and write all my docs in markdown. 18:18
phenny uvtc: I'll pass that on when sjn is around.
dalek volaj/cstr: 8619523 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
Add vim modeline to NativeCall.pm6.
 18:19
volaj/cstr: e94f45c | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | / (3 files):
Tests and support functions for explicitly managing strings.
tadzik uvtc: hey
uvtc hi taddy 18:20
Erp! tadzik.
tadzik :)
uvtc: how does your colour-blindness react to tjs.azalayah.net/mpo.html ?
arnsholt moritz: Could you try that branch and nqp/cstr with your sqlite stuff? Hopefully it works now
tadzik uvtc: if that was you, I'm not sure 18:21
uvtc Ooooh, ahhh... I like the gemstone-looking check-boxen! Though, they don't go well with the other badges.
tadzik, no, not me.
tadzik yeah, in the end we'll probably need something else than icons stolen from KDE :P
hmm, someone was telling me not to leave things just coloured, but also with symbols
uvtc Hah. I'm not a KDE user. Didn't recognize them. There's gotta be some good free icons around.
Right. Symbols for those with trouble seeing color, but color as well. Sounds good. 18:22
To me, the graphics on the badges aren't all that recognizable.
Are there any residents on this channel who do a little web design? 18:24
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uvtc My web design skills only go up to: "make it gray, but a box around it, add an <img>, there --- looks good". 18:25
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timotimo why is the logo for "commits in the last 90 days" a cut-open citrus fruit? 18:27
arnsholt It's fresh =)
uvtc it's fresh, it's so fresh
exciting
masak tadzik: najs! # tjs.azalayah.net/mpo.html 18:29
tadzik :)
maybe clicking the smoke badges could redirect to an appropiate emmentaler page 18:30
masak sounds appropriate.
tadzik that'll need some emmentaler extending too 18:31
we'll see to taht
masak two suggestions, and do with them what you will.
tadzik go ahead
masak (1) make the green checkmark boxes slightly less colorful. they're "uninteresting" in that they mark "everything's fine". 18:32
tadzik right. The icons are temporary, or I hope so
masak I quite like them, actually.
(2) perhaps suppress further red cross checkboxes after the first one? 18:33
tadzik the second one would be nice, indeed
masak gives a bit of a spatial clue saying "we only really got this far".
dalek mentaler: 2cb8081 | (John Gabriele)++ | template.tt:
added legend
tadzik that'll require some HTML::Template fu
actually, I thought someone will contribute (hint hint) ;)
masak not really. there's three boxes: green, red, and blank :)
tadzik heh 18:34
and there's also True, False and DontCare :)
masak this is similar to that, yes. True, False, and N/A.
tadzik uvtc++
dalek kudo/named_pod_vars: eee338b | tadzik++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
Remove some leftover debugging output
kudo/named_pod_vars: 641e6b7 | tadzik++ | src/Perl6/Actions.pm:
Make the compiler not whine about undeclared $= variables, and vivify them to Any
spider-mario what’s wrong with Oxygen icons? 18:35
I like them :)
goraki rakudo question, is it correct that there must be whitespace between 'else' and the block that follows it? e.g. else{ … } causes an error? 18:37
tadzik uvtc: fwiw, I don't think "Implemented" describes "Yes, the tests have passed". Maybe something like "Everything Okay" / "Something's wrong" would be better?
it may be
r: if 0 { say('') } else{ say "foo" }
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/sJAnsL98AE:1␤»
tadzik std: if 0 { say('') } else{ say "foo" }
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Whitespace required after keyword at /tmp/ZaA9Z7C1b_ line 1:␤------> if 0 { say('') } else⏏{ say "foo" }␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 41m␤»
tadzik goraki: there you go 18:38
uvtc tadzik, Oh, whoops. I just copied what I saw below. Will change that.
tadzik uvtc: thanks
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goraki tadzik: right, fair enough. thanks. 18:38
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uvtc tadzik, Actually. Not sure what should go with those. I just wanted the legend there so the camelia logo wouldn't interfere with the far-right column in the table below. 18:39
tadzik hehe, fair enough :) 18:40
just go for something that clearly indicates the meaning, even if it's "OK", "Not OK", "No eye deer" :) 18:41
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masak it's wonderful to see these developments. 18:42
moritz std: if 1 { } else{ 0
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Whitespace required after keyword at /tmp/VDM28zGwX_ line 1:␤------> if 1 { } else⏏{ 0␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 40m␤»
moritz replies to stale backscroll
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sisar tadzik, where is the code for tjs.azalayah.net/mpo.html ? 18:44
phenny sisar: 01:54Z <tadzik> tell sisar Thanks, that's more than I remembered :)
tadzik sisar: github.com/perl6/modules.perl6.org...st_results
sisar looks
tadzik moves inside 18:45
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sisar tadzik, the webpage looks (maybe) broken at the end. The last module in the list is Digest::SHA256 ? 18:48
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tadzik looks good to me 18:50
sisar: ^
that's what I see: i.imgur.com/EWLIN.png 18:51
the list is complete
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tadzik masak: now that I think of it, maybe modules.perl6.org wants only one indicator, saying "doesn't build", "tests fail" or so 18:52
sisar huh, let me get a screengrab...
dalek mentaler: 7a267f3 | (John Gabriele)++ | template.tt:
changed the legend, made it a <dl> to make it a bit taller, thus more room for camelia to fly around
 18:53
masak tadzik: well, yes and no.
tadzik: the visitor is only really interested in one bit of information. "how far did it get?" but three columns form a progress bar of sorts, which is suggestive. 18:54
tadzik: removing visual clutter is admirable, though.
sorear masak: I'm just suprised that non-sorear people can add downloads to sorear/.*/downloads
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tadzik masak: I think that maybe a visitor to mpo wants only to know if something is outright broken 18:54
moritz sorear: that right comes along with commit bits 18:55
tadzik if he/she really wants all these information, he/she'll visit emmentaler
.u ☺
phenny U+263A WHITE SMILING FACE (☺)
sorear emmentaler, n. Something which makes something else mental. 18:56
masak sorear: oh! but I'm a contributor. the only rights I don't have are what's under the "Admin" tab.
sisar tadzik, here is what I see imgur.com/rdbZc (Firefox). Ditto for Chromium. 18:57
uvtc tadzik, feel free to change that smiley. Seemed appropriate, but tastes vary.
arnsholt When class Foo does Role[$param], is there a licenced way to dig out the $param again? 18:58
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uvtc I think I like seeing the checkboxen all the way across. Lots of green checkboxes == good, lots of red boxes with X's == bad, hover mouse over box if you forget what it's supposed to indicate. 18:59
moritz arnsholt: make an accessor for it in Role
role Roles[$param] { method param() { $param } }
arnsholt Right. That was my other option
uvtc tadzik, Oh, wait, that doesn't really go well with "commits in the last 90 days" though, since it will make any slightly older modules look bad. 19:00
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tadzik sisar: hee, odd 19:01
sisar aye
tadzik what does the page source say?
uvtc tadzik, maybe "commits in the last 90 days" should just be something extra (simply absent if project not touched in last 90 days).
moritz uvtc: remember that perfect is the enemy of good
uvtc moritz, also, sorry for the bikeshedding. 19:02
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tadzik uvtc: I'm leaning towards removing the three badges from mpo, and leaving just a warning saying "well, tests fail" 19:02
dalek p: 446badf | moritz++ | src/PAST/NQP.pir:
nqp::die as alias for pir::die
p: d498216 | moritz++ | / (2 files):
allow single-letter command line options without spaces between option and value

also allow grouping of options that take arguments. Now -Ilib and -pes/// should work
tadzik if someone wants to know more, he/she can click and go to emmentaler
moritz++ 19:03
arnsholt r: say('foo' != all('a', 'b', 'c'));
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«False␤»
tadzik r: say('foo' ne all('a', 'b', 'c')); 19:04
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«True␤»
tadzik :)
arnsholt Durr.
I've been doing too much Python lately >.<
tadzik hugme: hug arnsholt 19:05
hugme hugs arnsholt
uvtc Was experimenting with file IO, and got a weird error from this: gist.github.com/2570536
"Variable $line is not declared"
But that's commented out.
tadzik huh
uvtc perl6 is wearing its x-ray specs
(seeing through comment markers) 19:06
moritz r: gist.github.com/2570536
sisar tadzik, the page source ends abruptly at the SHA256 block... maybe its my internet connection. Will try again later and let you know.
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $line is not declared␤at /tmp/GvhcUy3zPf:10␤»
moritz uvtc: the problem is $whole_enchilada<<<
uvtc: that starts to parse a postcircumfix:<> 19:07
uvtc: and inside it, # are not comments
uvtc I was going to say, it gets better. When I remove the commented out code completely, I get a different errer.
s/errer/error/
===SORRY!=== 19:08
Missing << or >>
moritz std: gist.github.com/2570536
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $line is not predeclared at /tmp/7xtvI59y68 line 9:␤------> # for @lines -> ⏏$line {␤Unable to parse statement list; couldn't find right brace at /tmp/7xtvI59y68 line 11 (EOF):␤------> # }⏏<EOL…
moritz I wonder if those errors hould be deferred to CHECK time, just so that we can see other syntax errors too
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arnsholt r: say("foo" ne all("foo", "bar")) 19:09
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«True␤»
uvtc moritz, The reason I was putting ">>>these<<<" around the text in the string was because I wanted to see what was happening with any newlines present. Just a nice visual marker. 19:10
arnsholt Am I being silly again?
uvtc moritz, should I file/email a bug report?
arnsholt uvtc: It's parsed as the start of a $var<subscript> syntax, which is why it explodes 19:11
jnthn arnsholt: "foo" isn't equal to "bar"
uvtc moritz, oh, I see what you mean.
jnthn arnsholt: So it's true that it's not equal to all of them.
uvtc whoops. s/moritz/arnsholt/
arnsholt jnthn: Being silly again, of course. I want eq any()
jnthn r: say("foo" eq all("foo", "bar"))
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«all(True, False)␤»
tadzik hehe 19:12
jnthn r: say(so "foo" eq all("foo", "bar"))
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«False␤»
tadzik True! and False!
jnthn tadzik: ne collapses the junction by negating
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tadzik yeah 19:12
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arnsholt jnthn: Getting the CStr repr going was quite pleasant BTW. 6model is nice =) 19:15
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moritz arnsholt: fwiw negated ops are supposed to autothread differently from normal ops 19:17
ie $a ne $b works like not $a eq $b
and then the eq autothreads 19:18
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jnthn arnsholt: yay :) 19:18
uvtc moritz, jnthn , filed a bug for what I was just asking about.
arnsholt moritz: Right. Did you see the cstr branches in nqp and zavolaj BTW? Should be relevant to sqlite 19:19
moritz uvtc: it's not a bug, as I tried to explain 19:20
uvtc: at least not in rakudo
uvtc: the <<< introduces a postcircumfix, which you never close. inside it, # does not introduce comments 19:21
uvtc: so it's OK to complain about undeclared variables in there
it's the same as
r: my $a; $a<< foo $bar baz >>;
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: ( no output )
moritz erm, that one should complain
std: my $a; $a<< foo $bar baz >>;
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $bar is not predeclared at /tmp/VYDgntPMKy line 1:␤------> my $a; $a<< foo ⏏$bar baz >>;␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 42m␤» 19:22
moritz std: my $a; $a<< foo # $bar baz >>;
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $bar is not predeclared at /tmp/ZSecueKnDh line 1:␤------> my $a; $a<< foo # ⏏$bar baz >>;␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 42m␤»
moritz uvtc: that's what you are doing, basically
uvtc moritz, Ah, sorry, I misunderstood.
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uvtc moritz, thanks for the explanation. 19:25
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uvtc Added this page to the mostly harmless docs: wiki.perl6.org/Mostly%20Harmless%20...20and%20IO . It uses the wiki's Perl 5 syntax highlighter. 19:31
Also added a note to the front page about getting better Perl 6 syntax highlighting for the wiki.
alester, I see the mostly harmless docs on the wiki wiki.perl6.org/Mostly%20Harmless%20Docs/Main as being somewhat similar to your perl101.org/ . 19:33
(though, they're not nearly finished) 19:34
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uvtc phenny, tell alester irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-05-01#i_5525866 19:41
phenny uvtc: I'll pass that on when alester is around.
alester I'm here 19:42
phenny alester: 19:41Z <uvtc> tell alester irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2012-05-01#i_5525866
alester I have email, too.
uvtc gotcha.
alester I haven't done anything on perl101 in forever.
uvtc Right. But when I saw your nick, I thought of perl101 and then made the connection. 19:43
alester I'm not sure I ever will. But who know.
uvtc I just had phenny ping you because I figured, if I don't hear back from someone, it probably won't hurt to have phenny let them know when they get back. 19:44
alester understood.
19:47 Su-Shee joined
uvtc How do I "shell out"? `this` doesn't work. 19:50
moritz qx
uvtc moritz, Hm. Not working for me: `my $date = qx/date/;` ... 19:51
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uvtc moritz, nor qx[date] 19:52
moritz uvtc: in what way is it not working for you?
uvtc ===SORRY!=== 19:53
Confused
at ./foo.pl:1
moritz are you using literal ` in there?
r: my $date = qx/date/;
uvtc gist.github.com/2570898
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«qx, qqx is disallowed in safe mode␤ in sub restricted at src/SAFE.setting:2␤ in sub QX at src/SAFE.setting:9␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/Nctt_jdPxT:1␤␤»
uvtc Oh heck. It's the `say`. 19:54
It didn't like the hashes in there.
moritz wonders why not
[Coke] comment! 19:55
jnthn o.O
moritz std: my $date = qx[date];
uvtc I was trying to put something harmless in there, and didn't want to use >>>these<<<.
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
[Coke] r: say "#what#"
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«#what#␤»
[Coke] or not. ;)
though it really looks like ColdFusion when you do that.
moritz std: my $date = qx[date]; say "#$date#"
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
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moritz r: my $date = "now" say "#$date#" 19:55
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/q2fwiF7nbN:1␤»
moritz r: my $date = "now"; say "#$date#"
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/PavkFBzTMh:1␤»
moritz r: my $date = "now"; say "#$date"
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«#now␤»
moritz r: my $date = "now"; say "$date#" 19:56
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/9P9KzO9pWC:1␤»
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jnthn Interpolation fail, maybe? 19:56
moritz oh, it's the old unspace-after-interpolation parse error :/
r: my $date = "now"; say "$date."
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«now.␤»
moritz r: my $date = "now"; say "$date.("
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unable to parse postcircumfix:sym<( )>, couldn't find final ')' at line 2␤»
moritz that one
[Coke] r: my $date = "a" && say "${date}(" 19:57
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Non-variable $ must be backslashed at line 1, near "${date}(\""␤»
jnthn {$date}
[Coke] arglebargle. "except in perl 6"
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jnthn wonders if we have a rule somewhere there should be a token, thus it goes off parsing whitespace and finding the comment. 19:58
masak std: say q]hop!]
p6eval std fab64fc: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Use of a closing delimiter for an opener is reserved at /tmp/bkFuI3KXVC line 1:␤------> say q⏏]hop!]␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ prefix or term␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 40m␤»
masak :P
also, phew. :)
dalek p/cstr: abef7b9 | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | src/6model/reprs/CStr.c:
Handle encoding parameter for CStr representation.
 20:08
volaj/cstr: 216d11c | (Arne Skjærholt)++ | lib/NativeCall.pm6:
Pass encoding parameter to CStr representation.
uvtc How do I print to stderr? I tried `say $*ERR $err-msg;` but that's not it... 20:11
masak uvtc: 'note $err-msg' 20:12
uvtc: or '$*ERR.say($err-msg)'
uvtc Oooh. I think I saw "warn" mentioned somewhere as well.
masak uvtc: or '$*ERR.say: $err-msg'
uvtc Ok.
masak uvtc: &warn throws a resumable exception, which then gets printed to STDERR when caught. 20:13
or rather, when nothing catches it and silences it :)
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uvtc I see that `warn` gives me the line number. 20:14
Whereas `note` doesn't.e
s/doesn't.e/doesn't/ 20:15
masak, thanks.
masak r: say $?LINE
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable $?LINE is not declared␤at /tmp/nDbA0gB39H:1␤»
masak n: say $?LINE
p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«1␤»
uvtc r: say "hi"; warn "ouch!"; say "bye" # should never get to "bye"? XXX 20:16
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«hi␤ouch! in block <anon> at /tmp/hHEPJmg5vn:1␤␤bye␤»
uvtc How can I make `say` "hot"?
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masak yes, it should get to bye, and it does. 20:17
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uvtc masak, I only ask, because you mentioned "resumable exception", but I never caught any exception. 20:18
masak the runtime catches it, and resumes it.
that's what warnings are: milder forms of error after which stuff continues on.
uvtc Ok, will get back to understanding that better after learning about p6 exceptions. 20:19
thanks, masak.
masak kowtows
uvtc Is there any way to make `say` non-buffered? That is, write directly to stdout, without delay. 20:20
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moritz it already is non-buffered 20:22
masak theoretically, $*OUT.autoflush = True 20:23
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uvtc Thanks, masak. Using `note` sounds great. 20:27
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moritz I dimly remember a script or module that lets you search for unicode codepoints by name 20:29
uvtc Oh, and `die "no!!!!"` also seems to write to stderr as well. (of course, then exists the script)
moritz something p5ish
can somebody tell me its name? 20:30
uvtc shapecatcher.com/
masak moritz: App::Uni
moritz name, not shape
masak: thanks
masak it's one of the first CPAN modules I install on any new Unix box of mine :)
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PerlJam moritz: If TimToady doesn't know, ask tchrist; he's bound to know. 20:48
oops, /me was scrolled up 20:49
masak there should be a warning for scrollback staleness.
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TimToady 'course, I use one of my own that is rather simpler than App::Uni 20:51
gist.github.com/2571294 20:52
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uvtc What's the difference between `leg` and `cmp`? 20:57
20:58 brrt left
uvtc
.oO( We have both kinds, country *and* western. ) :)
 20:59
masak uvtc: `leg` coerces to Str, `cmp` compares anything as best it can 21:00
uvtc Ah, thanks, masak. 21:01
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masak (`leg` is to `le` and `ge` as `<=>` is to `<=` and `>=`) 21:02
uvtc masak, right.
masak though the corresponding `cmp` comparison operators aren't called `cm` and `pm`, they're `before` and `after` :) 21:03
PerlJam heh
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masak so maybe `cmp` should be renamed `befsameaft` :P 21:04
or `before===after` 21:05
uvtc What is `eqv`? 21:06
masak data structure equivalence.
21:06 cognominal left
masak p6: say [1, 2, 3] eqv [1, 2, 3] 21:06
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«1␤» 21:07
..rakudo 4c241c, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«True␤»
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masak those are two different array references, but they are eqv to each other. 21:07
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uvtc masak, you mean, it ripples through a data structure, recursively, checking corresponding pieces for equality? 21:07
masak p6: say [1, 2, { foo => 'bar' }] eqv [1, 2, { foo => 'bar' }]
p6eval rakudo 4c241c, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«True␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
masak uvtc: yes.
uvtc Interesting. I'd've guessed that it would check if two objects are the same object. 21:08
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masak that's part of what === does. 21:08
uvtc Does eqv use eq or ==?
Oh, wait. ===?
masak :)
p6: say 42 eqv "42" 21:09
uvtc Ok, so, like cmp doing the best with what you give it,
p6eval rakudo 4c241c, niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«False␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
masak seems eqv uses === underneath.
uvtc What does `===` do?
masak compares reference identity.
unless it's been told the thing is a value object (like numbers and strings and stuff), then it compares values. 21:10
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uvtc What does eqv use when comparing one item in one data structure to the corresponding item in the other d-s? eq or ==? 21:10
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masak === 21:11
which boils down to reference comparison, eq, or ==, depending.
uvtc masak, regarding using ===, I don't see how that would work, unless the implementation is sharing fragments of data structures behind the scenes. 21:12
doy p6: class A { has $.a } say A.new(a => 1) eqv A.new(a => 1)
p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Strange text after block (missing comma, semicolon, comment marker?) at /tmp/WvZUIjBcAy line 1:␤------> class A { has $.a }⏏ say A.new(a => 1) eqv A.new(a => 1)␤␤Parse failed␤␤» 21:13
..rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Confused␤at /tmp/oo34y3viO1:1␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
doy p6: class A { has $.a }; say A.new(a => 1) eqv A.new(a => 1)
p6eval rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«False␤»
..niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot use value like A as a number␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 261 (Any.Numeric @ 5) ␤ at <unknown> line 0 (ExitRunloop @ 0) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 0…
..pugs: OUTPUT«␤»
masak uvtc: well, it does work, whether you see how or not ;)
uvtc That's good. :)
masak doy: custom types need to tell infix:<eqv> how to recurse, otherwise they'll be treated as leaves. 21:14
doy masak: makes sense to me, i was just making sure
(:
masak p6: class A { has $.a }; sub infix:<eqv>(A $l, A $r) { $l.a eqv $r.a }; say A.new(a => 1) eqv A.new(a => 1) 21:15
p6eval niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Nominal type check failed in binding '$l' in 'infix:<eqv>'; got Int, needed A␤ at /tmp/JLOuricC7d line 0 (infix:<eqv> @ 1) ␤ at /tmp/JLOuricC7d line 1 (infix:<eqv> @ 5) ␤ at /tmp/JLOuricC7d line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/ni…
..rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«Nominal type check failed for parameter '$l'; expected A but got Int instead␤ in sub infix:<eqv> at /tmp/Rhy2OKhnyh:1␤ in sub infix:<eqv> at /tmp/Rhy2OKhnyh:1␤ in block <anon> at /tmp/Rhy2OKhnyh:1␤␤»
..pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Int: "&a"␤ at /tmp/pEOxFPXNBS line 1, column 52-66␤»
masak oops.
p6: class A { has $.a }; multi infix:<eqv>(A $l, A $r) { $l.a eqv $r.a }; say A.new(a => 1) eqv A.new(a => 1)
p6eval pugs: OUTPUT«*** No such method in class Int: "&a"␤ at /tmp/Gpc_J6Bdhp line 1, column 54-68␤»
..niecza v17-2-gb8fcf85: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot call &infix:<eqv>; none of these signatures match:␤ A, A␤ at /tmp/nA7WqWdd01 line 1 (infix:<eqv> @ 5) ␤ at /tmp/nA7WqWdd01 line 1 (mainline @ 5) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 3840 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6e…
..rakudo 4c241c: OUTPUT«True␤»
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masak sorear: ^^ that looks... interesting. 21:15
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masak 'night, #perl6 21:20
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lichtkind good night 22:08
jnthn -> sleep 22:09
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lichtkind good night 22:15
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lichtkind anyone awake who knows exactly what an expressionis? 22:15
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[Coke] not much of a change on spec test comparison in teh past week: 23:17
"Impl", "pass","fail","todo","skip","plan","spec"
# 05/01/2012 - rakudo++ ; niecza (94.34%); pugs (42.24%)
"niecza", 20384, 2, 761, 1499, 22646, 24155
"pugs" , 9127, 1, 3341, 1555, 14024, 24016
"rakudo", 21605, 30, 708, 1855, 24198, 24165
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lichtkind [Coke]: do you know exactly what an expression is ? 23:53
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