»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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diakopter anyone around? 02:25
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japhb diakopter, yes, but I'll be AFK again in a couple minutes. What's up? 02:30
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diakopter oh, just wanting someone to listen to me grouse about writing tests 02:30
japhb heh 02:31
diakopter I mean.
the only reason I'd write regression tests is so *someone else* doesn't break stuff. because I'm DTRT the first time always 02:32
japhb Oh, of *course* ...
diakopter I'm speaking tongue in cheek, hopefully apparently. 02:33
japhb Yes, quite. ;-) 02:34
diakopter I mean, if I spend 20x more time thinking/designing than typing, surely that means I understand it well enough to know all its behaviors and interactions with other software.
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japhb As has been true for all such thoughtful programmers, for decades now .... 02:35
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timotimo so, anyone going to do the ludum dare compo with perl6? :) 03:12
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colomon masak++ # just read day 9, lovely. 04:02
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valen_03 04hi... 04:08
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moritz good morning 06:05
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sorear o/ moritz 06:18
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cedrvint hello #perl6 08:38
08:41 fgomez left, Rix left
cedrvint seen PerlJam 08:42
aloha PerlJam was last seen in #perl6 16 hours 35 mins ago joining the channel.
moritz ah yes, we need an advent post 08:44
anybody got one up their sleeves? 08:45
cedrvint my article is way too far from finished 08:46
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cedrvint there's a draft from PerlPilot. 08:49
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moritz oh, there is? 08:50
tadzik good morning #perl6 08:51
cedrvint o/ tadzik 08:52
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mtymula hello my friends in perl 08:54
cedrvint hello mtymula! 08:57
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mtymula i have a problem with installing rakudo on my fedora 15 08:58
cedrvint what's the problem? 08:59
mtymula i've been told that this shuld work
github.com/rakudo/rakudo/blob/nom/INSTALL.txt
moritz yes, it should
mtymula but it doesn't
moritz what's the problem?
mtymula i wanted to upgrate my rakudo to latest verion
but the version remains the same 09:00
moritz so what did you do?
mtymula i logged into fedora 09:01
opened switched to root
and performed successfully fallowing steps: 09:02
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mtymula $ rm -r rakudo 09:02
$ git clone git://github.com/rakudo/rakudo.git
$ cd rakudo 09:03
$ git pull
$ perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot
$ make
$ make install
$ make test
and
make spectest
everything passed
than i write perl6 -v 09:04
and the old version is displayed
moritz what does which perl6 say?
mtymula dont know 09:05
moritz then try it
mtymula give me a sec 09:06
moritz I suspect that now both the old and the new rakudo are installed, and PATH points to the old one
mtymula which perl6 gives me a path: 09:07
bin/perl6 09:08
moritz and is that the same path that you installed the new rakudo to? 09:09
cedrvint by default it's <rakudo-src>/install/bin I guess 09:10
mtymula dont think so... i was installing rakudo in root/rakudo/install 09:11
moritz then you need to manipulate your PATH to include /root/rakudo/install/bin before bin/ 09:12
mtymula ok sine i am dumass in unix could you tell me how can i do it?? 09:13
*since
cedrvint export PATH=/root/rakudo/install/bin:$PATH
if it fails: setenv PATH /root/rakudo/install/bin:$PATH
(not all shells use the same syntax) 09:14
then check with "which perl6" 09:15
mtymula and it will be pernament change?
moritz no, for that you have to put it into a file that is executed during login 09:16
mtymula ok it works
cedrvint otherwise, if you want to overwrite your old perl6, use "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --prefix=/" instead of "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot".
mtymula what is nex?
*next 09:17
moritz that's typically ~/.bashrc or ~/.bash_profile
oh, or system wide in /etc/bash.bashrc
mtymula .bash_profile indeed 09:28
it does not work... 09:34
moritz .bash_profile is only included for login shells 09:36
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mtymula what about this: otherwise, if you want to overwrite your old perl6, use "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot --prefix=/" instead of "perl Configure.pl --gen-parrot". 09:44
??
can it work??
moritz it can work, but I wouldn't recommend using a prefix of /
because then it'll be hard do deinstall
cedrvint agrees 09:46
tadzik mtymula: where did your old perl6 come from? 09:47
mtymula i installed it the same way i quess...
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nelsond hay guys, can you give me one (and most important) feature perl6 will have, that is considered an advantage to other modern languages ? 09:51
moritz nelsond: grammars
nelsond i'm just wondering... as last time i touched perl was probably around 1998.
yo mean, in terms of syntax? 09:52
Su-Shee nelsond: no, you can create your own grammars for whatever you need.
nelsond: also, Perl 6 gets all this nasty encoding unicode string stuff right. 09:53
moritz like regexes, but more readable, powerful and composable
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Su-Shee a regex framework ;) 09:53
GlitchMr nelsond: good error message 09:54
s
std: if(42 > 52){}
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared routine:␤ 'if' used at line 1␤Check failed␤FAILED 00:00 43m␤»
GlitchMr perhaps not
std: while(1) { }
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Word 'while' interpreted as 'while()' function call; please use whitespace instead of parens at /tmp/QpHgQJRtMM line 1:␤------> while⏏(1) { }␤Unexpected block in infix position (two terms in a row) at /tmp/QpHgQJRtMM …
Su-Shee nelsond: I think - compared to other modern languages - it keeps Perl's density and conciseness, it's very "smooth" do use, has a lot of "do what I mean" and tons of features from operators, types, roles, grammars...
nelsond ya, errors with hints, i like it. 09:55
GlitchMr Also, bye
Su-Shee nelsond: it's very open in terms of style - OO, functional, baby-perl...
09:55 GlitchMr left
nelsond well, thanks, all this looks interesting, i'll read about them. 09:56
Su-Shee nelsond: keep in mind that there probably isn't a "best practise" culture like in other languages yet .. like "you should do this and not that" and such.. 09:57
cedrvint nelsond: I think Perl 6 is the best language not (only) be cause a given set of features, but mainly because of its clever design (syntax, consistency, ...) 10:00
Perl 6 designers did a really good job, kudos to all of you!
Su-Shee I'm hacking javascript, python, ruby and perl 5 side by side these days and perls - both of them - still have the least "getting in my way" factor... 10:01
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GlitchMr By the way, Perl 6 allows you to write natural code. For example, $x == 3 | 5 instead of $x == 3 || $x == 5 10:11
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felher good *, #perl6 10:28
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cedrvint no Advent gift today :'-( 11:47
moritz today is still a while longer 12:03
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colomon Was it PerlJam who edited his post today? That seems promising. 12:20
felher colomon: btw: are the set operations you talked about in your nice post specced? 12:23
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colomon phenny: tell sorear Any notion how hard it would be to add trait_mod:<is> to Niecza? 12:23
phenny colomon: I'll pass that on when sorear is around.
colomon felher: neither TimToady nor I nor anyone else has gotten around to adding them to the spec. They've been in the spectest for a while. 12:24
felher colomon: ah, i see. Thanks :)
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sorear colomon: I think that would be pretty much useless without a metamodel 12:25
phenny sorear: 12:23Z <colomon> tell sorear Any notion how hard it would be to add trait_mod:<is> to Niecza?
colomon sorear: ah. And I doubt we're getting a metamodel in the next week, right? 12:26
moritz it would be just like sorear to add a metamodel within a week :-)
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colomon is thinking about BPDD for his next Advent post now, trying to avoid the last minute hacking rush this time. 12:27
sorear actually if there's a spec it might be doable
niecza *has* a metamodel, it's just in a million pieces
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sorear making something consistant and usable is not impossible 12:28
I'd rather not design anything though
also if you're talking about sub traits, rakudo and niecza currenty have a substantial difference in sub handling 12:29
colomon yeah, I was just wondering how hard it would be to get a simple "is cached" implementation going for Niecza. 12:30
sorear colomon: my sleep schedule has gone insane the last week,what's your excuse 12:32
I need to sleep now
colomon sorear: err, 7:30 am here, I've been up for half an hour.
sorear I thought you were a fellow west coaster
nm
colomon no worries 12:33
sorear &
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colomon huh. just tested to see if moritz's "is cached" implementation still worked in rakudo, and it seems to compile all right, but using it actually makes a simple recursive factorial call slower rather than faster. :\ 12:41
moritz :( 12:42
colomon r: say (1, 1, * + * ... *)[^100]
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 2584 4181 6765 10946 17711 28657 46368 75025 121393 196418 317811 514229 832040 1346269 2178309 3524578 5702887 9227465 14930352 24157817 39088169 63245986 102334155 165580141 267914296 433494437 701408733 1134903…
moritz maybe some argument passing changed, and it never hits the cache now
colomon nope. 12:43
I mean, I just tested it with Fibonacci instead, and "is cached" is a huge performance improvement there. 12:44
like 50 times faster on fib(30)
it must be the overhead of caching is slower than just recursively calling fact 12:45
crazy
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moritz erm, wait 12:49
recursive factorial doesn't ever hit the cache 12:50
so it only sees the overhead from from checking the cache, and never benefits from it
no wonder it's slower
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pmurias japhb: have you tried building nqp-js under the current rakudo star? 13:44
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colomon moritz: why wouldn't it hit the cache? 15:26
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moritz colomon: because fac(5) = 5 * fac(4) = 5 * 4 * fac(3) etc 15:27
colomon moritz: I mean, calculating just one factorial wouldn't be faster, which is why I calculated fact(10000) and fact(10001)
moritz colomon: oh, I didn't know that
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grondilu eval: $_ = 0; $_ + $_++ 15:41
buubot_backup grondilu: 1
grondilu rn: my $_ = 0; say $_ + $_++
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Redeclaration of symbol $_␤at /tmp/bM9YY4BUvQ:1␤------> my $_ ⏏= 0; say $_ + $_++␤ expecting any of:␤ scoped declarator␤ constraint␤»
..niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«Potential difficulties:␤ Useless redeclaration of variable $_ (see line 0) at /tmp/ApNYsk470b line 1:␤------> my $_ ⏏= 0; say $_ + $_++␤␤1␤»
grondilu rn: $_ = 0; say $_ + $_++
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5, niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«1␤»
grondilu rn: $_ = 0; say 0+$_ + $_++ 15:42
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5, niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«0␤»
pmurias Any resumable exceptions may not be resumed once we exit the CATCH statement? 15:45
colomon moritz: actually, I think the problem with fact may be that all the time is actually in converting the number to a string to print out. 15:47
moritz :-) 15:49
colomon yeah, that's totally it. 15:50
unless rakudo's gotten really smart about eliminating unused variables. 15:51
GlitchMr Somehow I've feeling that C++ isn't for humans. `int a(24);` and `int a = 24;` are identical.
benabik GlitchMr: That's only because initializing and assigning to an int are the same thing.
moritz colomon: it hasn't
colomon moritz: didn't think so. 15:52
pmurias GlitchMr: that's actually usefull
GlitchMr Also... 0 +... isn't it P5ism? 15:53
colomon 0 +, p5, yes.
GlitchMr Also, that 14th day article for Perl 6 Advent... 15:55
At least I see draft by PerlJam in posts, but...
Also, perl6advent.wordpress.com/2011/12/2...ulti-ples/ 15:56
perl6 tag?
cedrvint ?('PerlJam' ~~ 'Perlpilot') 15:57
moritz True 15:58
GlitchMr False 16:00
But, $PerlJam eqv $perlpilot
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jnthn evening o/ 16:08
felher o/ jnthn 16:09
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jnthn Phew...final class of the year taught. :) 16:09
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[Coke] jnthn!! 16:10
sjn jnthn: well done! \o/
[Coke] er, jnthn++
. o O (odd thinko)
sjn jnthn: now you can send me some receipts ;)
jnthn sjn: I got as far as ordering a new printer :) 16:11
sjn :D
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colomon moritz: even without printing, it's still slow with is cached. but... does Hash in rakudo still use Str keys? 16:16
moritz yes
what else should it use? 16:17
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jnthn It should use Str keys by default 16:17
timotimo so, 14th calendar post this evening?
moritz I hope so
GlitchMr PerlJam is writing it
moritz if there's none when I get home, I'll write something myself
jnthn will make sure tomorrow's one happens :) 16:18
sjn is wondering if the dec 21st calendar post somehow will include the end of the mayan calendar :)
GlitchMr moritz: it's already in drafts. When trying to modify it I get "Warning: perlpilot is currently editing this post"
jnthn If you want a hash with objecty keys, declare it: my %hash{Mu};
GlitchMr my %hash{Mu};... that's interesting trick. 16:19
moritz though Int.WHICH also uses .Str internally
so that's no way around a slow Int stringification 16:20
colomon jnthn: I'm just trying to figure out why "is cached" doesn't help the performance of recursive factorial. I'm thinking it's because converting the number to a Str during the caching process is actually slower than calculating the number!
GlitchMr Just wondering, does Perl 6 have immutable tuples, like Python?
jnthn colomon: Hm. Hope big are the numbers? :)
colomon approximately 35000 digits, I think. 16:21
felher r: my $x = \(1,2,3); say $x[1]; $x[1] = 4; 16:22
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«2␤Cannot assign to a non-container␤ in block at /tmp/M1Le3xO3Gj:1␤␤»
colomon rn: say ([*] 1..10000).log(10)
p6eval niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«35659.45427452078␤»
..rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«Inf␤»
felher GlitchMr: Captures may be used, I guess.
jnthn felher: Captures are immutable.
oh, you knew :)
duh :)]
colomon yeah, 35,000+
jnthn colomon: Well, guess the profiler can best answer :) 16:23
felher jnthn: thanks anyway :)
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mtymula hello again:) 16:24
felher o/ mtymula
GlitchMr gist.github.com/4286656
mtymula can anyone tell me if panda works correctly and where exactly it installs modules??
GlitchMr What if I would like to use tuple as hash key, just like in Python
moritz mtymula: it worked yesterday for me
PerlJam greetings.
GlitchMr (I know, I should do %a{1}{2}, but let's say I'm crazy enough) 16:25
moritz mtymula: and it installs into %*CUSTOM_LIB<site> ~ 'lib/' by default
mtymula motiz you make me laught
every time
moritz r: say %*CUSTOM_LIB<site>
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/site␤»
PerlJam I've got a draft article about is-prime, but apparently I suck at explaining Rabin-Miller. Anyone care to take a look and improve it?
moritz should have chosen a career as comedian
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PerlJam perl6advent.wordpress.com/?p=1677&a...eview=true 16:26
mtymula or maybe it is the amount of alcochol in my vains
PerlJam (I assume that link works properly if you're logged in)
GlitchMr PerlJam: I already have saw it ;-). It's nice article.
(I don't know why you would want to implement is-prime function when Perl 6 already has one, but whatever) 16:27
colomon jnthn, moritz: wait, my theory is completely wrong. there are 35,000 digits in the value of (the biggest) number in the cache. but the key (which is the bit that gets stringified, right?) is just 5 digits.
moritz right
unless the value is stringified too, somewhere 16:28
[Coke] can someone set me up with a login on p6advent?
mtymula moritz: can you explain me like to an idiot what exactly is %*CUSTOM_LIB<site> ~ 'lib/'
or how can i find out
GlitchMr r: say %*CUSTOM_LIB<site> ~ 'lib/'
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«/home/p6eval/nom-inst/lib/parrot/4.10.0-devel/languages/perl6/sitelib/␤»
mtymula because i would like to make it work... and it does not...
GlitchMr But I think he meant ~ '/lib/'
moritz yes, I did 16:29
mtymula ok so where the hell is this lib folder supposed to be located?? 16:30
somwhere in rakudo
felher r: my %hash; %hash{\(1,2)} = 'Universe'; say %hash{\(1,2)}. # @ GlitchMr -- You may still acces those objects with %hash{'1 2'}, though, which might pose a problem for you.
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Unsupported use of . to concatenate strings; in Perl 6 please use ~␤at /tmp/Jj1rzwtfZa:1␤------> (1,2)} = 'Universe'; say %hash{\(1,2)}. ⏏# @ GlitchMr -- You may still acces thos␤»
mtymula or in panda?
felher r: my %hash; %hash{\(1,2)} = 'Universe'; say %hash{\(1,2)} # @ GlitchMr -- You may still acces those objects with %hash{'1 2'}, though, which might pose a problem for you.
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«Universe␤»
jnthn colomon: perl6 --profile ? :) 16:31
colomon jnthn: okay, okay. 16:32
GlitchMr felher: that is like old $a{1,2} syntax in Perl 5. Not interested in that.
colomon jnthn: sure, I could look for real evidence instead of just wildly spectating.
jnthn ;)
felher GlitchMr: okay, I see :) 16:34
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japhb pmurias, No, I have not been able to build anything in a couple days -- moving all my stuff to a new computer that hopefully won't overheat when I compile Rakudo. :-/ 16:36
colomon jnthn: shall I mail you a profile? 16:37
jnthn colomon: Feel free, and the code :) 16:38
colomon should be on their way to you. 16:43
jnthn Thanks
FROGGS_ g'evening 16:46
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skids
.oO( So (&) is the "Texas Intersection." Yep. Looks like an off-ramp to me.)
 17:04
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TimToady we went and saw The Hobbit last night at midnight, so if you notice bags under my eyes, you'll know why :) 17:26
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geekosaur so your eyes are Bag End? 17:31
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TimToady either that, or they're burning from the Smaug 17:32
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geekosaur (or at least looking out from Bag End...) 17:32
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masak top o' the evening to you, #perl6 17:56
diakopter o| 17:57
TimToady read that as a grim cyclops 17:58
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FROGGS .oO( - | <--- a chinese grim cyclops? ) 18:00
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diakopter *smacks forehead* 18:00
diakopter hopes FROGGS is chinese
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FROGGS no, then I'd be known as FLOGGS ;o) 18:01
timotimo >_>
diakopter tries very hard not to rotfl
timotimo does the diakopter turn into a roflcopter when he's amused? 18:02
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diakopter chromatic wins making that joke first 18:02
timotimo OK
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diakopter FROGGS: seems TimToady meant the | to be the (flat) mouth 18:04
FROGGS ya, of course
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timotimo so a stereotypically chinese grim cyclops should look more like || ? 18:05
FROGGS depends on how its eyelids work 18:06
diakopter ¦|
er.
oops.
fail 18:07
FROGGS hehe
timotimo :D 18:08
diakopter anyway, /me hopes no one is offended
TimToady a bunch of round-eyed racists, the lot of you 18:09
FROGGS well, I wouldn't be if someone makes jokes about germans...
TimToady is a racistist
diakopter FROGGS: I don't think you'd be amused by the jokes Craig Ferguson makes about Germans quite often
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TimToady hopes no one here is a racististist 18:10
moritz is just a meta-ist
FROGGS diakopter: try me
diakopter nope
masak <da1ek> OMG GUYS, A COMMIT TO perl6/ecosystem! 18:11
diakopter it hasn't been 500 years since the world wars yet.
masak tadzik++
TimToady would rather stay up late to watch The Hobbit
masak no perl6advent post today? :'( 18:13
GlitchMr masak: there is
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GlitchMr Day 14 - Primal Needs 18:13
diakopter it's not published. 18:14
TimToady Primal Scream Therapy
GlitchMr Scheduled for: Dec 14, 2012 @ 20:00 Edit
huh?
Date was already set. Yes, it's late. But better than never.
diakopter when is 20:00 18:15
GlitchMr This is the question...
diakopter I mean, what time zone 18:17
GlitchMr My timezone is GMT+1
But I don't know what timezone is 20:00 in 18:18
moritz I guess in 42 minutes
because the dates wordpress has shown me so far were in my own time zone (also GMT+1)
18:20 Rotwang joined
Rotwang hi 18:20
how can I get last element of an array?
moritz [*-1]
Rotwang is there better way than: @array[@array.end] ?
FROGGS Craig Ferguson is quite good
GlitchMr Rotwang: @array[* - 1]
tadzik masak! \o/
Rotwang ok, what does the star do?
GlitchMr It declares subroutine 18:21
Rotwang wth?
why do I need subroutine in array index?
GlitchMr It gets array length as its argument.
Rotwang ok, thank you 18:22
diakopter actually the * sends the array to a remote server (currently feathre) that computes a bunch of stuff then returns the array length
Rotwang yeah
masak tadzik! \o/
GlitchMr diakopter: what?
Rotwang diakopter: I think you may be onto something here 18:23
tadzik masak: did you see the coroutines post draft?
masak Rotwang: diakopter has it right.
it's a remote procedure call.
tadzik: no, I haven't had time to look at drafts.
tadzik: and likely won't for most of the evening.
Rotwang masak: remote?
GlitchMr remote procedure call? 18:24
Now I'm confused.
diakopter Rotwang: we're kidding
masak Rotwang: the * gets packaged as a SOAP requ... dang, diakopter.
diakopter GlitchMr: just a joke; sorry :)
Rotwang [;
for a minute I've thought I'm in a parallel universe or something 18:25
masak yeah, just kidding. Perl 7 has the star as a remote procedure call, though... :P
cosimo you should use AWS, ofc
"Trust the Cloud. The Cloud is Magic"
18:25 gfldex_ is now known as gfldex
diakopter in fact, all of Perl 6 runs on the Curiosity on Mars 18:25
Rotwang that's why it is so slow 18:26
FROGGS .oO( mars is bright tonight )
masak .oO( Rakudo Curiosity ) 18:27
moritz sounds good :-)
cosimo
.oO( should I push this code live now? )
18:29 GlitchMr left
Rotwang so 18:30
how can I get index of a given element of an array, except for grep of for loop?
is there any mechanizm for that? 18:31
moritz well, you can always go through a hash
Rotwang s/of/or/2
diakopter Rotwang: do you want === or == comparison?
Rotwang moritz: use hash instead of array?
diakopter or eq
moritz r: my @a = <a b c d e>; say @a.pairs.hash<c>
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
moritz hm
r: my @a = <a b c d e>; say @a.pairs.hash.perl 18:32
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«("0" => "a", "1" => "b", "2" => "c", "3" => "d", "4" => "e").hash␤»
moritz r: my @a = <a b c d e>; say (@a Z=> @a.keys).hash.<c>
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«2␤»
Rotwang perl6 is amazing 18:33
diakopter the learning curve is not a function. sometimes it goes backwards a bunch.
Rotwang but how the hell human brain is supposed to comprehend that?
moritz like everything else: by learning 18:34
Rotwang yeah, but perl6 is waaaay more complicated than perl5, I think
moritz and in some other sense it is waaay simpler than Perl 5 18:35
compare class A { has $.x; }; say A.new(x => 5).x
with
Rotwang yeah, I guess once you learn perl6 hard things get easier
18:35 kaleem joined
moritz { package A; sub new() { my ($self, %h) = @_; bless \%h, $self }; sub a { shift->{a} } }; A->new(a => 1)->a 18:36
diakopter er. I think I meant to say the learning curve is not always increasing. double fail.
moritz and some are easier straight away
flussence r: say @('a'..'z').index('e') / 2 18:37
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«4␤»
diakopter commute&
Rotwang ok, thank you guys a lot 18:38
hopefuly in a month I'll be able to scratch perl6's surface a bit
masak make it sooner! :) 18:39
Rotwang I'm trying
masak try quicker! :) 18:42
Rotwang [: 18:43
18:44 spider-mario left
flussence r: say ('a'..'z').pairs.first(*.value eq 'e') # less wrong 18:46
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«4 => "e"␤»
18:46 wamba left 18:57 werwerwer left
betterworld r: <a b c d e>.pairs>>.invert.hash<c>.say 18:57
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«2␤» 18:58
18:58 kivutar left 19:02 popl joined
moritz r: <a b c d e>.kv.reverse.hash<c>.say 19:04
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«Any()␤»
moritz r: <a b c d e>.kv.reverse.perl.say
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«((4, "e"), (3, "d"), (2, "c"), (1, "b"), (0, "a")).list␤»
19:04 gfldex left
moritz r: <a b c d e>.kv.flat.reverse.hash<c>.say 19:04
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«2␤»
moritz I guess that .reverse should flatten
though I'm never sure
betterworld r: say (<a b c d e> ... 'c').elems -1 19:09
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«2␤»
betterworld :)
moritz :-)
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sorear good * #perl6 19:47
FROGGS hi sorear
betterworld sadly that code will loop endlessly if the array does not contain any "c" :( 19:53
is there some variant of ... to prevent this?
19:56 yagoubix joined
yagoubix salut 19:56
FROGGS hi yagoubix
moritz betterworld: not really; though you could slice to the original array length to prevent that
yagoubix hi froggs 19:57
19:58 sirrobert joined 19:59 ggoebel_ joined
sirrobert how do I go from a unicode character number to the symbol for it in p6? 19:59
jnthn r: say "\x8089" 20:01
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«肉␤»
20:01 kaleem left
FROGGS r: say chr(0x8089) 20:01
p6eval rakudo 6e6ac5: OUTPUT«肉␤»
jnthn Or that :) 20:02
sirrobert thanks =) 20:03
20:10 GlitchMr joined 20:17 SmokeMachine left 20:19 sirrobert left
masak folks, may I have your complete attention, please. :) 20:23
it's that time of year again.
masak smiles a big Cheshire Cat grin and waits for someone to guess it
jnthn Perl 6 Cheshire Cat? 20:24
masak jnthn: you're not allowed to guess, I privmsg with you, you know :P
jnthn Sorry, didn't mean to reveal the cat secret... :P 20:25
jnthn swears at Parrot's op compiler for not supporting goto
masak there is no cat secret.
masak makes a jedi wave
colomon there is no cat secret 20:26
masak *lol*
jnthn what's a cat?
:P
masak next guess?
colomon jnthn: it's a program for sending the contents of a file to std out
masak colomon: actually, it simply echoes stdin to stdout :) 20:27
GlitchMr It's the program I don't have on my computer
jnthn 'cat' is not recognized as an internal or external command,
operable program or batch file.
...me either!
GlitchMr But I've put alias cat='awk 1'
Now it works!
colomon masak: it definitely reads files if given them.
masak channel! focus! what am I about to spectacularly reveal to you?
moritz p6cc2012? 20:28
jnthn Did you orbit a satellite?
awwaiid cats are made of meat, just like humans?
colomon you've programmed ten million monkeys to code in p6?
awwaiid or cats are made of code, just like humans?
masak moritz has it. \o/
moritz \o/
masak uploading post now.
moritz though my next guess would have been nice to have indeed
GlitchMr Perhaps if ten million monkeys would make AWK programs, some monkey would actually make cat program.
moritz time-travelling for perl6-debug
masak :) 20:29
jnthn Yeah, masak should totally implement that :D
masak totally.
jnthn How hard can it be? The debugger is already in Perl 6 :P
masak strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-20...ng-contest
sign up sign up sign up
colomon has yet another programming contest to ignore, ignore, ignore.
GlitchMr It's... back?
masak hm, s/two implementations/two major implementations/ 20:30
jnthn "you've nothing to lose" - lies! You could lose DAYS! :P
masak masak disclaims responsibility for any loss of days. 20:31
colomon DAYS and PRECIOUS SANITY!
masak ...or sanity.
(sign up amazon books yay)
also, could someone reddit the post? gracias. 20:32
GlitchMr github.com/masak/p6cc2012/blob/mas...ription.md
Sounds fun
20:32 immortal joined, immortal left
GlitchMr Actually, I'm going to start with this challenge, as it sounds easy. 20:32
masak GlitchMr: did you sign up yet?
GlitchMr No
jnthn "sounds easy" :D 20:33
masak no comment :)
GlitchMr How can I sign up?
20:33 sftp_ joined
masak GlitchMr: it's in the blog post. 20:33
colomon GlitchMr: that's the hard part!
masak just send an email to me.
(you could be the first to sign up!)
this year's tasks are pretty swell. I think we'll all enjoy this. 20:34
doy ocaml's debugger has time travelling 20:35
GlitchMr Sent
doy it's pretty useful(:
20:35 erkan left, stopbit left, sftp left
masak GlitchMr: received \o/ 20:35
sorear I would have liked MASAKSTAR
moritz too has sent a mail
sorear or would that be Masakiy Sputnik?
GlitchMr "...unless people actually send in solutions." ;-) 20:36
20:36 sftp_ left, stopbit joined
GlitchMr So, I've chance to win if nobody will send solutions. But hey, I'm going to send solutions at least to second problem. 20:36
moritz sorear: is a MASAKSTAR something like a death star?
ok, correction: mail not yet sent; I tried to, but ran into DNS problems :( 20:37
sorear moritz: ECHOSTAR, TELSTAR, NAVSTAR
masak GlitchMr: in the previous two years, we've gotten all five solutions by at least one contestant. often several.
moritz: notice that I didn't end up handicapping moritzes or #perl6ers. I did write it into the rules, and then got a bad conscience and removed it again. 20:38
are we on reddit yet? :) 20:39
sorear check yo mail :D
masak o.O
20:39 sftp joined
masak this will be... interesting... :D 20:39
GlitchMr++ moritz++ sorear++
jnthn Woo, 3 entrants already :D
moritz masak++ # contest
masak moritz++ # cockiest signup email ever :P 20:40
GlitchMr I'm going to make dictionary for second challenge fun ;-).
moritz masak: I kinda stole the meme from "Name of the Wind" 20:41
masak sends "welcome aboard" emails back to the new contestants
moritz: oh!
masak checks the reference
moritz (a book well worth reading if you like fantasy and books)
GlitchMr "The haiku should consist of English words."
Should be possible, if I would remove few words.
jnthn moritz: So, now I don't have much besides Perl 6 worry about any more (for now, at least...) - what's the status of the sink stuff? 20:42
sorear smiles at "double vision"
masak :)
left it in from last year.
moritz jnthn: I haven't had any success tracking down the for-loop-in-gather bug
sorear cloneded
moritz jnthn: that's the only known bug left
masak I just realized that I don't allow apostrophes in the haikus.
oh, well.
jnthn moritz: Reminder of what it is?
sorear o'rear frowns 20:43
moritz jnthn: just a sec
jnthn: gist.github.com/4258258
masak sorear: s'orry :(
jnthn moritz: k 20:44
Hm, I just made for ^100 X ^100 -> $i, $j { $i + $j } run in around half the time it used to...
It's still slow as shit though. Hm. 20:45
20:45 SamuraiJack__ left 20:46 Chillance joined
moritz masak: huh, according to rules.md I too decide who wins 20:47
jnthn hm, dalek missing? 20:48
masak moritz: that can't be right. fixing.
moritz jnthn: yes
masak moritz: frightfully decent of you to report that :P
GlitchMr Dictionary of 213 words... should be enough 20:49
20:49 Targen left, chee left
masak moritz: fixed. 20:49
moritz
.oO( 213 words should be enough for everybody )
GlitchMr I won't say what this dictionary contains. This is a spoiler. 20:50
secret8
s/spoiler/secret/
masak .oO( contestant doth talk too much ) :P
...are we on reddit yet? :P 20:51
preferably both /r/programming and /r/perl
I don't care so much about /r/perl6... ;)
20:52 sjohnson left
moritz isn't t1 like SAT? 20:52
20:52 sjohnson joined
sorear is Smul short for Smullyman? 20:53
masak sorear: ayup.
Smullyan*
sorear would it be improper of me to answer moritz' question? 20:54
masak moritz: I'd tell you, but that would be spoiling things.
sorear: I can't realistically stop people from talking about the solutions.
sorear: however, consider the pros and cons of explaining solutions to other contestants :P
sorear hehe 20:55
how does scheduling work for this? do we submit different puzzles at different times, or all at once? 20:57
20:58 Rotwang left
masak up to you. 21:00
I'd prefer to get solutions ASAP and individually.
21:01 yagoubix left
sorear I s'pose you'd like your solutions in ORDER too... 21:01
moritz I guess order doesn't matter much 21:02
21:02 hash_table joined
jnthn moritz: That's not what you said about the gather bug :P 21:02
jnthn is having a look at it :)
masak sorear: no, not at all.
moritz jnthn: :-)
masak jnthn: that's what you said about events. :P 21:03
jnthn masak: If your transport doesn't promise the ordering, you don't get it. :)
masak cheap shots. we haz them.
jnthn: true. I don't get it.
sorear masak: t4 seems underspecified. what is the ambient temperature and pressure? how big are the cubes? is that VSMOW? what kind of air? 21:05
diakopter jnthn: hide the goto in a macro!
jnthn diakopter: *lol*
masak sorear: thank you kindly for your feedback. good luck with the task. :)
sorear: the cubes are 1x1x1.
jnthn moritz: Was it just statemnet form of gather? Or does using the block form help? 21:06
diakopter I would've guessed 0x0x0
moritz jnthn: iirc it doesn't matter
masak diakopter: 0x0x0 wouldn't hold water very well.
jnthn moritz: OK, 'cus my crack at fixing it does so for the bl form and not for the st form...
.oO( Dang and blorst... )
masak diakopter: also known as "points" :P
sorear 1x1x1 ... meters? 21:07
masak sorear: length units.
sorear :D
diakopter universe widths
moritz light years
masak whatever floats your cube.
moritz now you have to take relativistic effects into account :-)
diakopter so where do I find these challenges
masak diakopter: github.com/masak/p6cc2012 21:08
diakopter: strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-20...ng-contest
and, hopefully soon, reddit ;)
sorear moritz: that one is very easy. a cubic light year of water is a black hole, so at run's end the total amount of water (defined as a kind of condensed matter) is 0
masak you guys are overanalyzing things
sorear masak: if your cubes form into an airtight hook shape, the amount of water collected depends on the compressibility of the air 21:09
diakopter that's a very wet black hole
FROGGS was hoping p6cc was about a perl 6 christmas carol :/
sorear overanalyzing YEAH
masak sorear: yeahbut the air leaks out through the cracks. says so in le description.
sorear: for the purposes of the task, water always displaces air completely. 21:10
sorear masak: the description says that air leaks through cracks between cells sharing an edge. says nothing about air being able to leak out between cells sharing a face. 21:11
as a former nethack player I have to make this distinction.
diakopter don't they share an edge if they share a face?
masak wow, a high number of #perl6 signups this year.
diakopter: they do. four, in fact.
sorear I interpreted it as sharing (only) an edge 21:12
flussence as a minecraft player I figured out what t4 was asking pretty much instantly :)
popl Minecraft. Pfeh.
masak sorear: same goes for cubes sharing a face. nice try :)
flussence: I must've been inspired by minecraft, yes. despite never having played it ;)
sorear masak: yay, I don't have to model the non-ideal-gas behavior of air
masak you don't. :) 21:13
sorear all five tasks read.
sorear cogitates
masak sorear: in fact, the volume will always be an integer.
jnthn moritz: Yeah, got a fix for the block form...just need to work out what on earth is going on with the non-block one... 21:14
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diakopter masak: in which direction does a vertical waterfall go when it hits a large flat surface? all? 21:18
moritz down :-)
masak diakopter: it behaves like rain. 21:19
jnthn moritz: yay, think I have a fix...now to make sure I didn't bust spectests
diakopter masak: will there be duplicate cube coordinates? 21:20
masak diakopter: I guess so, but there will still be just one cube.
21:21 bruges_ left
masak .oO( no use trying to game the system -- I've been thinking about cubes for a month ) :P 21:21
21:22 GlitchMr left
sorear diakopter: statistically, over infinite time - all of them 21:22
21:23 bruges joined
sorear the problem is very carefully worded to talk about collection rather than movement 21:23
masak right.
jnthn moritz: Pushed the fix. 21:24
21:24 grondilu joined
sorear will probably do t1, t3, t5, t2, t4 21:24
grondilu again, panda failed to rebootstrap after recompilation of rakudo.
21:25 sahadev joined
moritz jnthn: great, thanks 21:25
jnthn moritz: One test fails in S32-exceptions/misc.rakudo
moritz: But that's probably just the branch being behind nom. 21:26
flussence now that I'm giving it some thought, t4 is a lot harder than it first looks. Water runoff in reality doesn't follow taxicab geometry...
sahadev r: ([1, 2], [3, 4]).perl
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: ( no output )
sahadev r: say ([1, 2], [3, 4]).perl
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«([1, 2], [3, 4])␤»
sahadev r: say set([1, 2], [1, 2]).perl 21:27
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«set("1", "2")␤»
sahadev r: say set(([1, 2], [1, 2])).perl
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«set("1", "2")␤»
sahadev r: say set(([1, 2], [3, 4])).perl
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«set("1", "2", "3", "4")␤»
jnthn moritz: You may wish to look at semilist and if it needs any sink love
moritz: I'm happy enough for it to be merged when you feel ready, though. 21:28
masak jnthn: "sink love" sounds... wrong, somehow. :P
sahadev how do I prevent the list of lists from being flattened when passed to set()?
masak sahadev: I'm not sure, if you succeeded, arrays would be very good set members anyway.
(and I don't know how to prevent it)
jnthn Preventing it probably means "fix Rakudo"... 21:29
sub set(*@args) {
Should that be **@args?
r: say Set.new([1, 2], [1, 2]).perl
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«set("1", "2")␤»
jnthn Hm, but method new also does *@args 21:30
jnthn ain't sure off hand
TimToady: ^^ if
you have a moment :)
masak anyone want to submit strangelyconsistent.org/blog/the-20...ng-contest to reddit? 21:35
TimToady [] should not be flattening in list context, and () should be transparent to list context
r: my $a = [1,2]; my $b = [3,4]; say set($a,$b).perl 21:36
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«set("1", "2", "3", "4")␤»
moritz masak: what about yourself? :-)
TimToady if Set.new is unwrapping Set items into elements, that's wrong
masak moritz: I could, I guess, but I prefer if some other name showed up.
TimToady otherwise we can't create a set of sets... 21:37
moritz anyway, www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...g_contest/
masak \o/
moritz++
flussence interesting numbers here, it seems rakudo's startup time is in the same order of magnitude as java now: www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...50/c7goksj
masak this tends to bring in some people.
21:37 kaare_ left
diakopter flussence: that doesn't look like rakudo 21:38
moritz also submitted to www.reddit.com/r/CodingContests/com...g_contest/
moritz -> sleep
flussence diakopter: I've just done it on my own machine, the numbers are similar
masak \o/
jnthn TimToady: Figured that'd be the answer 21:39
masak: feel free to file ;)
masak submits rakudobug 21:40
jnthn Oh wait
masak waits
jnthn r: sub foo(*@x) { say @x.perl }; foo([1,2], [3,4])
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«Array.new([1, 2], [3, 4])␤»
jnthn ah, ok, that is OK
so it's just a set bug
masak: file aheads, just wanted to be sure it wasn't a more general problem :)
masak files ahead 21:41
TimToady: from the bright side, if we can't create sets of sets, then there's no barber's paradox... :P 21:42
grondilu is a knave :) 21:46
masak grondilu: :P
grondilu I like the way masak solved Cantor's paradox by just saying: "in that case, there is no solution". 21:47
.oO(on second thought I'm not sure it's called Cantor's paradox, but you know what I mean)
 21:48
masak I think you're thinking of some other paradox than Cantor's... :)
Epimenides', perhaps.
or Russell's. 21:49
grondilu I'll jut call it the en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liar_paradox from now on I guess 21:50
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masak grondilu: well, "no solution" is basically just saying that if we stick to the values "true" and "false", there's no way to model a person saying "I'm a knave". 21:51
er, assuming also that knights and knaves are the only possible person types.
21:53 Targen joined
grondilu masak: are you sure problem #1 is computationnaly doable? It's not NP = P or something, is it? 21:53
grondilu thinks of it and realizes the number of possibilities is not so large 21:55
.oO( 2**number_of_islanders possibilities anyway )
 21:56
masak grondilu: I don't see you among the signups yet. 21:57
sending an email is quick, and easy.
grondilu I'm like people in front of a store: just watching right now... :) 21:58
masak ;) 22:01
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Rotwang why 10..1 doesn't work? 22:04
I know I can do (1..10).reverse(), but I'm wondering
masak Rotwang: it's a good question. 22:05
jnthn
.oO( because ranges succ :P )
masak Rotwang: because reverse ranges are more useful empty than going backwards.
jnthn r: say 10...1 22:06
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«10 9 8 7 6 5 4 3 2 1␤»
jnthn The sequence operator is more magical and will do what you're after.
masak Rotwang: think of it as evading an 'if' statement saying "and if the upper limit is lower than the lower limit, make it an empty range".
Rotwang I see, so one needs to be explicit about that by reversing it 22:07
masak Rotwang: basically, when you have constants like that, it's easy to assume that the range going backwards would be a good thing. but when you have variables, it's almost always surprising.
Rotwang to say "I didn't make a mistake
masak Rotwang: right.
Rotwang ok
masak Rotwang: also, honestly, I think (1..10).reverse reads better.
if I look at (10..1) quickly, I may miss that it goes backwards.
'night, #perl6 22:08
be sure to upvote www.reddit.com/r/programming/commen...g_contest/ and www.reddit.com/r/CodingContests/com...g_contest/ ;)
Rotwang night
22:12 bluescreen100 joined 22:14 bluescreen10 left 22:20 mtymula left
[Coke] masak: did you ever finish grading 2011p6cc ? 22:22
jnthn [Coke]: strangelyconsistent.org/blog/announ...ntest-2011 22:23
[Coke] huh. I have no recollection of that post. 22:24
masak++ Coke-- 22:25
jnthn++ for making the contest less painful to code this year. :) 22:30
[Coke] tries to rope some of his perl5 buddies into joining. 22:36
[Coke] finds www.learningperl6.com/ 22:48
jnthn sleep &
[Coke] masak, you still about? 23:07
23:07 cooper left 23:08 cooper joined
[Coke] nevermind. 23:10
grondilu rn: for ^3 { say "wait for it..."; LAST { say "now!" } } # pretty cool 23:12
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«wait for it...␤wait for it...␤wait for it...␤now!␤»
..niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Action method statement_prefix:LAST not yet implemented at /tmp/yHxTj4NT0R line 1:␤------> ay "wait for it..."; LAST { say "now!" }⏏ } # pretty cool␤␤Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method statemen…
23:12 Chillance left 23:23 hash_table left
[Coke] Hurm. if I have a named alias for a subrule, and I successfully match, shouldn't I be able to dump this with $/<alias> ? (I'm getting Any(). and yet I can see the alias if I dump $/ itself) 23:24
(rakudo) 23:25
r: grammar a { rule a { '0' } ; rule b { <c=.a>} } ; $_="0" ; if /<a::b>/ { say $/; say $/.<c> } else { say "no" } 23:28
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«｢0｣␤ a::b => ｢0｣␤ c => ｢0｣␤␤Any()␤»
[Coke] n: grammar a { rule a { '0' } ; rule b { <c=.a>} } ; $_="0" ; if /<a::b>/ { say $/; say $/.<c> } else { say "no" } 23:29
p6eval niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Cannot dispatch to a method on a because it is not inherited or done by Cursor␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 281 (Mu.dispatch:<::> @ 4) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 1668 (List.gist @ 5) ␤ at <unknow…
[Coke] r: grammar a { rule a { '0' } ; rule b { <c=.a>} } ; $_="0" ; if /<a::b>/ { say $/; say $/<c> } else { say "no" }
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«｢0｣␤ a::b => ｢0｣␤ c => ｢0｣␤␤Any()␤»
[Coke] so, how do you get at that 'c' subpart of $/ ? 23:30
r: grammar a { rule a { '0' } ; rule b { <c=.a>} } ; $_="0" ; if /<a::b>/ { say $/; say $/<a::b><c> } else { say "no" }
p6eval rakudo fc9c3b: OUTPUT«｢0｣␤ a::b => ｢0｣␤ c => ｢0｣␤␤｢0｣␤␤»
[Coke] ah, that way.
23:48 wamba joined 23:50 stopbit left 23:57 Rotwang left

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