»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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Abcxyz r: my $i = 0; (while $i++ < 5 { ^$i } ).perl.say 02:05
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«Bool::False␤»
Abcxyz In S04 it says: "Unlike in Perl 5, if a final statement in Perl 6 is a conditional that does not execute any of its branches, it doesn't matter what the value of the conditional is, the value of that conditional statement is always Nil. If there are no statements in the block at all, the result is also Nil." 02:06
Is this supposed to return "1 2 3 4 5" instead? 02:07
or even: "0 0 1 0 1 2 0 1 2 3 0 1 2 3 4 0 1 2 3 4 5" ? 02:08
sorear I think the long version is the correct one
Abcxyz Then it should be a bug now.
I will record it, and send it later. 02:09
colomon n: my $i = 0; (while $i++ < 5 { ^$i } ).perl.say 02:12
p6eval niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«Nil␤»
Abcxyz I don't know whether it SHOULD return a list of all loops last statement value, or should it return Nil 02:19
But it seems to me Nil should only apply to if / unless statements, when the corresponding branch doesn't exist. 02:20
Otherwise while loops should always return Nil, and it provides no information at all.
sorear colomon: well known nieczabug. I'm suprised it doesn't work in rakudo 02:28
Abcxyz Both outputs are bugs, right? 02:30
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alec Ayiko, i can't get your solution to rosalind/REVP to work 03:28
it returns a whole lot of "1 4\n1 4\n1 4\n"
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quester r: say chr 0xd7ff; 03:51
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«퟿␤»
quester r: say chr 0xd800;
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«Invalid character for UTF-8 encoding␤␤ in block at /tmp/4vc9WgzuyR:1␤␤»
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quester r: say chr 0xfdfd; 04:46
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«﷽␤»
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elcric Hello, I am new to perl 6, I been trying to get Rakudo Star Perl 6 to work. I have it downloaded. It will respond to say commands and simple math but that is about it. Where can I find information on how to use Perl 6 on Rakudo Star? 07:37
doy phenny: tell jnthn actually, the more i think about it, the more i really don't like that the default behavior for say $foo or "blah $foo blah" can be to just die - this makes writing robust error handling fairly difficult - how do you generate an error message for an invalid value when that value could potentially be an incomplete role type object?
phenny doy: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
moritz elcric: there's a UsingPerl6.pdf document that comes with rakudo star 07:39
elcric Moritz, oops did not see it.
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moritz elcric: also perl6.org/documentation/ has some interesting links 07:39
elcric Moritz, thanks, I will look at those two sources, thank you very much. 07:41
moritz elcric: and of course, hang out here and ask questions :-)
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elcric Moritz, thanks, afk, looking at what you recommended now. 07:42
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tadzik good morning #perl6 08:04
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moritz \o tadzik 08:21
rindolf tadzik: morning.
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FROGGS_ morning 08:49
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sorear morning FROGGS 09:07
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moritz r: say 1 <=> 2 <=> 3 09:46
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤"<=>" and "<=>" are non-associative and require parens␤at /tmp/dxWsIv1bsX:1␤------> say 1 <=> 2 <=>⏏ 3␤»
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Woodi morning dear # :) # is using 'dear' and 'tea' and 'bloody' influenced by Engl-ish aristocracy tradition ? :) 09:56
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Woodi just got idea ! we need to have 'deb ftp://ftp.rakudo.org /debian/ stable main contrib non-free' in /etc/apt/sources.list ! 09:58
and .deb maintainers :)
and pmichaud++ permisions ofc...
and slashdot article :) 09:59
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moritz Woodi: first somebody needs to build the .deb packages reliably 10:01
and regularly 10:02
once that's done, we can start thinking about how to distribute them
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Ayiko 'morning #perl6 10:08
moritz good morninig Ayiko 10:09
dalek kudo/nom: 13e8052 | moritz++ | src/ (2 files):
throw typed exception for non-associative operators
 10:11
Ayiko phenny, tell alec I edited my solution there, thanks for reporting it. Removed [ ]* and also changed literal fail to <!> even though f never appears in DNA string
phenny Ayiko: I'll pass that on when alec is around.
dalek ast: ee14752 | moritz++ | S32-exceptions/misc.t:
test X::Syntax::NonAssociative
FROGGS what exactly does onlystar mean? 10:16
is it a proto without dispatchees?
or is it a single dispatchee
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FROGGS okay, reading irclog tells me that dispatchers/protos can be, but what is an onlystar proto and a non-onlystar proto? 10:25
elcric Hello perl6. I am new. I just got Radudo Star to work. How do I write to a file and read from a file? 10:26
moritz elcric: you can read and write entire files with my $contents = slurp('filename'); spurt('filename', $contents)
elcric: and you can do the clasic open/read or write/close 10:27
you can write with $file.get (one line) or $file.lines (lazy list of all lines, read on demand)
and write $file.print() and $file.say()
elcric Moritz: Thanks! I will go use those now. Thank you very much. 10:28
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raiph s/write with/read with/ 10:39
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elcric moritz: What code do I use to have Rokudo Star execute a Perl 6 script? 10:50
moritz elcric: you just invoke perl6 <yourscriptname> on the command line 10:51
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elcric Moritz: Thanks, I been trying to figure these easy things out on my own for weeks. 10:52
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FROGGS r: proto foo(|) { * }; say &foo.onlystar 11:10
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«True␤»
FROGGS r: proto foo(|) { 42 }; say &foo.onlystar
p6eval rakudo 7d3e01: OUTPUT«False␤»
FROGGS ahh
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Woodi moritz: let say we want to .deb Star releases. we can write script which will transform tarballs into .deb's (parrot, nqp and rakudo). for start 'make install' step can be handled by 'checkinstall' :) 12:26
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Woodi I had github.com/slunski/spi 3 years ago (wow!) and it was just Makefile for do all this... now Star releases can be used as only code source... 12:31
is there some way to 'ask' precompiled module: with witch compiler version you was compiled ? 12:37
file magic number or something ? :) 12:38
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hoelzro afternoon #perl6 12:53
Woodi o/ 12:56
hoelzro on line 227 of S05-regex.pod in the spec, it talks about :sigspace; shouldn't this be talking about :samecase instead? 12:57
(I know I've asked this already, but I haven't received an answer yet =S)
rindolf hoelzro: aloha. 12:59
hoelzro: good localtime().
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moritz Woodi: then do it (make the scriptss that create .deb files) 13:01
hoelzro rindolf: howdy 13:03
rindolf hoelzro: suppity sup? 13:04
hoelzro nothing much; working on my Perl6 syntax highlighter 13:07
moritz nr: say 1, 2 Z <a b> X <A B> 13:16
p6eval niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤"Z" and "X" are non-associative and require parens at /tmp/dzx1AEK5zQ line 1:␤------> say 1, 2 Z <a b> X ⏏<A B>␤␤Unhandled exception: Check failed␤␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/boot/lib/CORE.setting line 1443 …
..rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«1 a 2 A␤»
moritz nr: say 1, 2 Z <a b> Z <A B> 13:18
p6eval rakudo 13e805, niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«1 a A 2 b B␤»
moritz how would I define an operator that is list-associative with itself, but non-associative with others?
or are all list-associative operators supposed to be that way?
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moritz std: my ::MyType ::= :(Num, Str) 13:43
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Multiple prefix constraints not yet supported at /tmp/pprM0r3wLU line 1:␤------> my ::MyType ::⏏= :(Num, Str)␤Illegal redeclaration of symbol 'MyType' (see line 1) at /tmp/pprM0r3wLU line 1:␤------> my ::MyType[…
moritz r: my ::MyType ::= :(Num, Str) 13:45
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Cannot use :: as a type name␤at /tmp/ECoHa_8Wwa:1␤------> my ::MyType ::⏏= :(Num, Str)␤ expecting any of:␤ scoped declarator␤»
moritz std: class class {}; say class.new.perl 13:47
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
moritz rakudo: role Maybe[::T] { role Just[T] {} }; say Maybe[Int].new() 13:51
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«Maybe.new()␤»
moritz rakudo: role Maybe[::T] { role Just[T] {} }; say Maybe[Int].new() say Maybe[Str].new 13:52
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/5_17o4C71w:1␤------> role Just[T] {} }; say Maybe[Int].new() ⏏say Maybe[Str].new␤ expecting any of:␤ method arguments␤ argument list␤ postfix␤ infix or meta-…
moritz rakudo: role Maybe[::T] { role Just[T] {} }; say Maybe[Int].new(); say Maybe[Str].new
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«Maybe.new()␤Maybe.new()␤»
moritz jnthn++ # ttiar error messages
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moritz nr: say Bool ~~ Int 14:19
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«False␤»
..niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«True␤»
colomon moritz++ 14:21
moritz r: say ((1,2) X <a b>).perl 14:22
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«((1, "a"), (1, "b"), (2, "a"), (2, "b")).list␤»
moritz r: say [(1,2) X <a b>].perl
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«[1, "a", 1, "b", 2, "a", 2, "b"]␤»
moritz rakudo: my $b = &time; say &$b; 14:25
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Undeclared name:␤ &time used at line 1␤␤»
moritz rakudo: my $b = &sin; say &$b;
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«sub sin() { ... }␤»
jnthn o/ 14:27
phenny jnthn: 29 Dec 22:20Z <[Coke]> ask jnthn about implementing the math ops - I have the project open in eclipse, docs say that some of the math ops are already implemented, so I was going to use that as a basis to implement the missing ones. - but I can't see where Math or sin is used, e.g. help me help you!
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phenny jnthn: 29 Dec 22:23Z <[Coke]> ask jnthn - I'm assuming that the others are more builtin, somehow. If you could point me at one of those math ops, I can knock out the rest. 14:27
jnthn: 07:37Z <doy> tell jnthn actually, the more i think about it, the more i really don't like that the default behavior for say $foo or "blah $foo blah" can be to just die - this makes writing robust error handling fairly difficult - how do you generate an error message for an invalid value when that value could potentially be an incomplete role type object?
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jnthn phenny: tell [Coke] if you look in JASTCompiler.nqp you'll see a line like "QAST::OperationsJAST.map_classlib_core_op('sin_n', ...)" which maps sin_n to a JVM class library built-in. But for other math ops the class lib's Math class lacks such a method. 14:29
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
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jnthn phenny: tell [Coke] you'd need to implement those extra ones (in terms of simpler things) in the org.perl6.nqp.runtime.Ops, then add mappings in JASTCompiler; for an example of mapping to something in the Ops class, see the line like "QAST::OperationsJAST.map_classlib_core_op('what', ...)" 14:31
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
jnthn phenny: tell doy I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't allow punning of partial roles and they just fail at the point you call one of the undefined methods. 14:32
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when doy is around.
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jnthn FROGGS: onlystar means that it is a trivial proto that just immediately starts looking through the candidate list, thus we can safely merge as there's no confusion over what the proto does. 14:34
FROGGS: If two modules defined protos with some interesting logic in, we probably bad better not pick one at random :)
So I think that case should continue to die.
FROGGS k 14:44
got it
jnthn ah, gotta go...back later & 14:46
FROGGS have fun
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timotimo finally some time to program some perl6 :) 15:28
colomon \o/ 15:32
colomon is desperately trying to find his niecza-based MP3 tools... need to do some tag editing! 15:36
hoelzro the pygments lexer now properly handles code embedded in (regex|token|rule) 15:39
\o/
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moritz \o/ 15:41
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hoelzro you can do qw:s /.../ and such, right? 15:50
the abbreviated forms still allow adverbs?
moritz std: qw:s/.../ 15:52
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
moritz r: qw:s/.../
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output ) 15:53
moritz hoelzro: yes, you can :-)
hoelzro ok, cool
moritz r: my $a = 'a b'; say qw:s/x $a y/.perl 15:54
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«("x", "a", "b", "y").list␤»
moritz rakudo++
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hoelzro Perl 6 code is written in Unicode, but the encoding isn't defined, is it? 16:12
moritz so far all compiler assume UTF-8 16:13
hoelzro oh, really? 16:14
but that's not in the spec?
moritz no
hoelzro ok
then I'll make the default encoding for the lexer utf-8, but allow an override 16:15
did anyone see my question about the typo in S05 earlier? 16:20
moritz didn't 16:21
hoelzro hang on
on line 227 of S05-regex.pod in the spec, it talks about :sigspace; shouldn't this be talking about :samecase instead?
moritz no 16:22
hoelzro does ms/.../ only apply to :sigspace, or are there other valid abbreviations for m/.../ and s/.../.../ as well?
moritz std: mi/a/ 16:23
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Bogus term at /tmp/8PZV08ISnW line 1 (EOF):␤------> mi/a/⏏<EOL>␤Undeclared routines:␤ 'a' used at line 1␤ 'mi' used at line 1␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 42m␤»
moritz seems not
hoelzro ok, I was just wondering because it was talking about :samecase in that paragraph
ok
timotimo finally some time to program some perl6 :) 16:26
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doy phenny: tell jnthn that might be reasonable. it's a bit questionable conceptually, but it does make calling methods on role type objects behave the way i'd expect (mostly because i wouldn't really expect punning to actually be necessary, except for the case of things like .new that need to use metamodel bits) 16:36
phenny doy: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
doy: 14:32Z <jnthn> tell doy I'm starting to wonder if we shouldn't allow punning of partial roles and they just fail at the point you call one of the undefined methods.
doy phenny: tell jnthn the only thing i could think of that might be weird is «my $class; role Foo { method bar {...}; method baz { $class = self } }; Foo.baz», which would now give a class type object in $class that still has an unfulfilled required method. this may just be a case of "don't do that then", it's fairly obscure. 16:39
phenny doy: I'll pass that on when jnthn is around.
hoelzro Grammar.pm is a great test for this lexer
moritz STD.pm6 would be even better 16:40
Grammar.pm is written in NQP
jnthn back for another little bit :) 16:41
phenny jnthn: 16:36Z <doy> tell jnthn that might be reasonable. it's a bit questionable conceptually, but it does make calling methods on role type objects behave the way i'd expect (mostly because i wouldn't really expect punning to actually be necessary, except for the case of things like .new that need to use metamodel bits)
jnthn: 16:39Z <doy> tell jnthn the only thing i could think of that might be weird is «my $class; role Foo { method bar {...}; method baz { $class = self } }; Foo.baz», which would now give a class type object in $class that still has an unfulfilled required method. this may just be a case of "don't do that then", it's fairly obscure.
jnthn doy: Punning is required because all roles are generic.
That is, it they have incomplete bits. Specifically, the invocant is a type variable. 16:42
This has to be "filled in" by some type.
Which is the type of the class that the role gets composed into 16:43
hoelzro does {} have a special meaning in a regex?
moritz I wonder if that leads to some conceptual similarities to quasis and role bodies
hoelzro other than a very small closure?
moritz hoelzro: yes, it introduces a code block
hoelzro moritz: I see a bunch of empty ones in Grammar.pm
why is that?
jnthn moritz: Typically used to force end of declarative prefix.
moritz for terminating LTM
jnthn er, hoelzro ^^
hoelzro oh, ok
jnthn r: say 'abcd' ~~ / a \w+ | abc / 16:44
hoelzro just checking to see if I should color them specially
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«｢abcd｣␤␤»
jnthn r: say 'abcd' ~~ / a {} \w+ | abc /
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«｢abc｣␤␤»
jnthn hoelzro: No, they really are just code blocks.
hoelzro ok, good
less work for me =)
jnthn The empty use to terminate LTM is just a useful idiom.
moritz isn't there a :: or ::: or so that's meant to terminate LTM 16:45
hoelzro I see
the lexer is getting pretty good =)
jnthn moritz: Were it implemented, :: would also do it but has other consequences
hoelzro after it's able to hilight Grammar.pm and Actions.pm "well enough", I'll make an announcement for people to try it 16:46
jnthn iirc, anyways
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doy jnthn: isn't the invocant also a type variable when you call methods on a class type object? 16:58
jnthn No 17:00
Type object != type variable
doy oh, i see
jnthn sub foo(::T $x) { }
doy right
jnthn The ::T is a type variable
doy but why is that necessary? 17:01
couldn't that just be the role?
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jnthn No, because then we'd get multi-dispatch wrong. 17:02
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doy even in the case of method dispatch? 17:03
jnthn Well, it's multi-method dispatch in particular that's the issue 17:08
All the candidates are considered together. One composed into a subclass should, all else being equal, beat one composed into a superclass 17:09
doy sure, but when would a punned class ever have a subclass? 17:10
jnthn At the time a role is declared, we've no idea how it will be used. The things have to be generic for the composition case. 17:11
family stuff, bbl
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masak hola, #perl6 17:25
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moritz \o masak 17:26
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tadzik hola hola 17:43
flussence I don't think I'm experienced enough yet to post something here: www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguag...ts/15ofha/
tadzik no everyone will be to humble to reply there :) 17:44
moritz "comefrom" comes to mind 17:45
junctions
grammars
www.i-programmer.info/professional-...n-net.html 17:47
flussence tadzik: is there a way I can tell panda not to use precompilation? I don't mind it being really slow if it actually runs 17:54
tadzik hm, we can make one :) 17:55
masak flussence: lexical scoping. it's one of these features that grow cooler the more you stick to it. 17:57
moritz ~ . 17:59
flussence ooh, lexical scoping. good idea 18:00
tadzik I for one very like Go's channels :)
moritz type inference 18:01
masak subroutines :) 18:02
flussence right after I posted I remembered an even better one: first class functions 18:03
Abcxyz unroll loops :) 18:05
flussence (someone else can have that one :)
moritz 's reply: www.reddit.com/r/ProgrammingLanguag...in/c7obmgd 18:08
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timotimo what exactly causes the parse of a rule called "take" to call the regular take method? 19:16
[Coke] jnthn: Argh. my eclipse project search doesn't search *.nqp files by default, no wonder I couldn't find the sin. :) 19:25
phenny [Coke]: 14:29Z <jnthn> tell [Coke] if you look in JASTCompiler.nqp you'll see a line like "QAST::OperationsJAST.map_classlib_core_op('sin_n', ...)" which maps sin_n to a JVM class library built-in. But for other math ops the class lib's Math class lacks such a method.
[Coke]: 14:31Z <jnthn> tell [Coke] you'd need to implement those extra ones (in terms of simpler things) in the org.perl6.nqp.runtime.Ops, then add mappings in JASTCompiler; for an example of mapping to something in the Ops class, see the line like "QAST::OperationsJAST.map_classlib_core_op('what', ...)"
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timotimo i'm running into great ideas and then great problems all the time :D 19:38
[Coke] jnthn: do the functions in ops need to take {SixModelObject}s or are doubles fine? 19:39
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pmurias jnthn: if I want to serialize the serialization context (to js) how should I extra the data from it? 19:46
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pmurias s/extra/extract/ 19:53
jnthn: is just reading the serialized binary data the best option? 19:54
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alext hi everyone 20:32
Ulti hi
alext I would like to know more about how I can help 20:33
perl language development
?
moritz well, the easiest way to help is to write Perl 6 modules
and maybe writing documentation 20:34
Ulti alext: there is a list of them linked from here perl6.org/getting-started/involved
moritz harder ways include hacking the compilers
alext I am new to perl language but I have strog background in assembly language,C,C++ and java 20:35
so it won't be problem for me to learn fast
Ulti: tnx for link 20:36
tadzik alext: if you are fluent with JVM then you might look at the JVM port 20:38
not sure how Java is that :)
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Ulti tadzik not very ;) at least my degree which covered Java never actually touched on bytecode or the VM 20:43
alext Actually, when worked with java and when I was learning I needed to think like compiler and to understand JVM to details 20:46
and need to agree with Ulti, it's not just Java 20:47
alexrem Hi I have just installed Rakudo Perl6 Via windows msi. Can not find any editor, Nor Can find any Docs to learn the Syntax. 20:48
moritz alexrem: you can use any text editor you want 20:49
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moritz alexrem: and there should be a UsingPerl6.pdf installed somewhere 20:49
if not, you can lots of pointers to documentation on perl6.org/documentation/ 20:50
*you can find
Ulti alexrem: you might want to check out Padre it has support for highlighting perl6 syntax 20:52
alexrem I was hopping to learn the basic like what the file extensions should be. and an editor to help fixing Syntax. Also I also have installed Activeperl and do they conflict?
moritz they don't conflict 20:53
modules have the extension .pm or .pm6
and scripts usually .p6 or .pl, but you can really call them whatever you like 20:54
alexrem <ulti> I did but can not down load editor ony it gives you the whole package and it is 5.14...
Ulti alexrem: yeah but thats just the install of perl5 20:56
its strawberry perl with some extra modules
alexrem do I need do any cpan calls or other calls to install other downloaded Rakudo included mod's or parts? 20:57
I did but can not down load editor ony it gives you the whole package and it is 5.14...
Ulti alexrem: this might be a good post to checkout szabgab.com/getting-started-with-perl-6.html 20:58
alexrem I ask all to for give my eerors in this IRC channel as this my first IRC chat ever. :) 20:59
Ulti alexrem: CPAN is all perl5, for perl6 there is a tool called panda to install perl6 modules
afaik
moritz yes, correct 21:00
alexrem Thank to all. I will go and check the above and get back on. I will sill be on line so anyone can help please comment. Thanks again.
Ulti does panda work in windows?
alexrem <moritz> how do I set real name in the chanel? 21:04
. 21:15
21:17 alexrem left
moritz alext: I think you have to register your nick. See freenode.net/faq.shtml#contents-us...gistration 21:20
alext moritz: Yes, I will register a nick. Tnx. I didn't use irc for a while 21:24
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hbg clear 23:11
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