»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg p6eval perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by sorear on 4 February 2011.
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timotimo er, is the rendering of S26 correct? it says "D<POD> is an easy-to-use markup language" and "B<=begin pod>" and "B<=end pod>" :( 00:43
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timotimo oh, right, it says so right next to it that it's known to be incomplete 00:48
so that's fine i guess
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timotimo i'll get back to the screencast project after a bit of sleep. 01:56
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ggoebel wondering if initial jvm backend intends to make use of the "da vinci machine" (JSR 292). Looks like the folks at Oracle are continuing to work on improving support for dynamic languages. whereas .Net's DLR seems to have stagnated 02:54
Nashorn (Oracle's new open source javascript runtime for jvm jdk8 uses it) mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/mlv...05158.html 02:58
au InvokeDynamic++ 02:59
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au JSR 335 (Java 8, project Lambda) may also be relevant, with JVM-level support of "Default methods" dovetailing with method-carrying roles. # cr.openjdk.java.net/~briangoetz/lam...ate-4.html 03:11
ggoebel Current thread on LF performance mail.openjdk.java.net/pipermail/mlv...05162.html 03:17
au looks pretty good. 03:21
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[Coke] au: sorry to bug you, but pugs is broken on feather. Not sure if you have any tuits to poke at it. 03:32
au /usr/bin/pugs looks OK'ish. how exactly is it broken? 03:35
(please typeahead; I'll be back in a bit and take a look after lunch.) 03:36
[Coke] sorry, building a fresh pugs is broken.
(so the daily test runs have been showing pugs at 0 for some time.) 03:37
au ah, ok. rebuilding it in the background screen now; will see how it goes.
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[Coke] au++ 03:42
au [Coke]: A fresh "cabal update ; cabal install Pugs" worked for me producing /home/audreyt/.cabal/bin/pugs .
trying a Github checkout "make" in Pugs.hs/Pugs/ now.
[Coke] let me reproduce my failure for you. 03:43
au ok. "rm -rf ~/.cabal" might help.
compiling from Git checkout also worked for me, producing /home/audreyt/Pugs.hs/Pugs/pugs . 03:44
for the time being please feel free to copy/use my checkout.
(bbiab, lunch)
au is happy that a fresh recompile-the-world takes less than 7mins and Pugs itself takes just 3mins. 03:45
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[Coke] * Missing (or bad) header file: perl5/p5embed.h 03:46
removing ~/.cabal...
au also "git clean -dfx ; git pull" if you're working from a git checkout
[Coke] then I get: fatal error: libutil.h: No such file or directory 03:47
au "git reset --hard" may help too
[Coke] then I get the p5embed.h error again.
git clean -xdf ; git reset --hard; git pull; rm -rf ~/.cabal; make # gets the p5embed.h error. 03:48
au apparently it's because you're using a perlbrew 03:49
perlbrew off ; make
actually, before make, run "cabal install Pugs" first 03:51
but in any case that should work... the perlbrew was perhaps installed with an out-of-sync toolchain or something.
[Coke] Had removed ~/.ghc as part of "remove everything" test.. reinstalling some stuff, will try sans perlbrew shortly. 03:53
getting a lot of "Error while Error while updating world-file. : /home/autrijus/.cabal/: openNewBinaryFile: perm"
(though it doesn't seem to be impacting my installs) 03:54
shachaf recommends mkdir old; mv .cabal .ghc old/ rather than rm -rf .cabal .ghc7 03:55
Often it turns out there was something bbin there that you wanted.
[Coke] au++ #muuch better. 03:56
shachaf: I use haskell only for pugs, so rebuilding the dozen deps isn't a pain. 03:57
of course, now every test is failing because "this version of PCRE was compiled without UTF support". 03:58
still much better, though.
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dalek rl6-roast-data: 3be2124 | coke++ | / (2 files):
today (automated commit)
 04:02
rl6-roast-data: 09ae7ee | coke++ | bin/pugs.sh:
disable perlbrew for pugs build. (au++)
au [Coke]: fixed the PCRE support 04:16
[Coke] how do I get the udpated version? 04:19
do I need to rebuild something with cabal? 04:20
au run the command "sleep 300" :)
(I'm running "cabal update ; cabal install --reinstall regex-pcre-builtin pugs-compat ; make" su'd as you atm) 04:21
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au alright, /home/coke/sandbox/Pugs.hs/Pugs/pugs now has utf8 pcre support. 04:21
...and so does /usr/bin/pugs. thank you for bringing it back to the roast 04:26
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sorear au \o/ 04:28
[Coke] au++
au ohai sorear \o/
adu hi 04:29
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dduncan is there an admin for github.com/perl6 around? 04:35
I used to be a member of that GitHub organization but had removed myself in order to reorganize my accounts; now I'd like to be re-added to perl6 04:36
specifically, "muldis" was a perl6 member, but I converted that to an organization and created a new personal account duncand
can duncand be added to perl6?
au neat, haven't noticed the "turn into an organization" feature before 04:37
<- not an admin for github.com/perl6/ 04:38
dduncan I was setting things up to be more social, so its easier to have a group working on my Muldis projects with direct commit access, as is common in the Perl community 04:39
rather than everyone else having to do pull requests
au *nod*
adu is there a way to add metadata to a sub? 04:40
dduncan I actually removed myself from perl6 several months ago in preparation, but just did the actual account conversion today
that is all
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sorear dduncan: you want duncand added to perl6? I can do this 04:48
au adu: yes (with trait_mod, see perl6advent.wordpress.com/2011/12/...character/ ), but what would you like to use it for? 04:49
dalek gs.hs: ddfcad8 | au++ | pugs-compat/pugs-compat.cabal:
* Bump min regex-pcre-builtin to 0.94.4.4.8.31 to support UTF8 and GHC7.6
dduncan sorear, yes, thank you 04:50
github.com/duncand
is my new personal profile
I can't promise to be very active, but I was a member before (under "muldis") and occasionally updated the Perl 6 spec or such 04:51
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[Coke] wonders why feather is so slow. top not showing anything. 04:54
dduncan "duncand" matches my CPAN id, fyi 04:55
[Coke] ... and now it seems responsive again (after about 10m of slowdown)
sorear dduncan: done
dduncan thank you
dalek osystem: 8815b57 | (David Warring)++ | META.list:
Update META.list

Added PDF-Grammar		 05:29
osystem: 23bc919 | util++ | META.list:
Merge pull request #17 from dwarring/patch-1

Update META.list
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hoelzro in token statement_control:sym<...>, :sym is an adverb, and <...> are arguments to that adverb, yes? 10:44
arnsholt Good question. In previous versions of the Rakudo I think it's been treated separately 10:47
But last time I looked into the grammar was before we actually got proper adverb handling 10:48
*the Rakudo grammar
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masak I'm not sure that particular colonpair gets to be called "adverb". 11:03
adverbs are more like named options you pass to operators. 11:04
like `$a + $b :carefully`
(g'day #perl6)
hoelzro masak: so is :sym<...> special? 11:07
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masak std: sub foo:hihihihi<14>() {} 11:13
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
masak hoelzro: no.
hoelzro I see. 11:14
masak: so :sym is a trait?
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masak "trait" is used for something else in the spec. in 'is rw', 'rw' is the trait. 11:15
hoelzro I see
so what *is* :sym, then?
is it actually part of the name?
masak as far as I know, it's just a somewhat unusual part of the... right.
FROGGS_ it is like a named parameter for a multi sub
right? 11:16
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masak dunno. haven't thought much about this. 11:16
in some sense, it shouldn't be part of the name, because this is the process that underlies protoregexes.
FROGGS it's sad that you dont get the sym<> part when dumping a match though 11:17
masak std: sub foo:several<names>:at<once>() {}
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 43m␤»
masak FROGGS: yeah, that sounds lossy. 11:18
hoelzro I bring this up because token statement_control:sym<{ }> is one of the few things that my pygments lexer gets wrong 11:19
and I'm trying to think of the best way to codify the rules
jnthn morning, #perl6 11:20
phenny jnthn: 01 Jan 18:33Z <FROGGS> tell jnthn that I have a better approach: github.com/FROGGS/rakudo/pull/new/nom
jnthn: 01 Jan 18:34Z <FROGGS> tell jnthn I would like to make a new branch in the rakudo/rakudo repo, and would like to have commit bit for this, do I get your ok for this? I will also ask pmichaud
jnthn: 01 Jan 21:05Z <[Coke]> tell jnthn I split up the qast tests, but I am not really confident about my organization.
jnthn: 01 Jan 21:25Z <[Coke]> tell jnthn I have 'chars' added locally - it maps directly to String's length, but since that's an instance method, we can't map it directly like we did with the math methods, so I'm wrapping it in the ops class.
Further messages sent privately
masak jnthn! \o/ 11:21
jnthn phenny: tell FROGGS you linked me to the new pull request form ;) I'm OK with you having a commit bit; please drop pmichaud an email about it, since he has the info on received CLAs. 11:22
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when FROGGS is around.
masak hoelzro: if I were you I'd look at how STD.pm6 parses :sym
hoelzro ok, thanks
jnthn the foo:sym<bar> is just parsed by longname. 11:23
And sym is treated specially in the implementation of <sym>
masak so things can have "the same name" (from a proto/multi perspective), but different longnames? makes sense. 11:24
jnthn Yeah
We really do take the proto name and scan the method list for things that start with that_name:sym<
All colonpair names are canonicalized. 11:25
So if you write :sym['lol'] it is actually installed as :sym<lol>
masak hm... so using several colonpairs wouldn't work so well? :) 11:27
jnthn phenny: tell [Coke] the approach you took for chars is the right one (or right enoubh for now...) - we shouldn't bind ourselves too tightly to Java String to the abstraction there is welcome.
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around. 11:28
jnthn phenny: tell [Coke] arrays are [Type, e.g. [Integer
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
masak hands jnthn a keyboard where the keys aren't right next to each other :)
I'm running *what* Niecza version!? 11:29
masak updates
jnthn heh, I can't English 11:30
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FROGGS jnthn: I gave you this link because you can see the diff there, but I dont want to make a pull request with these repo, wanna make a fresh and clean commit 11:32
phenny FROGGS: 11:22Z <jnthn> tell FROGGS you linked me to the new pull request form ;) I'm OK with you having a commit bit; please drop pmichaud an email about it, since he has the info on received CLAs.
FROGGS hmmm, I need his mail address then...
ohh, faund it
found
moritz \o 11:44
masak apparently, Quentin Tarantino has now made a movie about a Python MVC framework. I never thought I would live to see it.
moritz! \o/
moritz masak! \o/
jnthn o/ moritz 11:46
masak moritz: many happy ⏎s :)
moritz .u ⏎ 11:47
phenny U+23CE RETURN SYMBOL (⏎)
moritz :-)
masak or maybe ䷗s
.u ䷗
phenny U+4DD7 HEXAGRAM FOR RETURN (䷗)
masak au++ # App::Uni 11:48
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dalek p-jvm-prep: e72ad7d | jonathan++ | Makefile:
Add a missing dependency.
 12:05
p-jvm-prep: 46250d9 | jonathan++ | t/qast_ (2 files):
Pull 6model tests out to a separate file.
p-jvm-prep: ee7efde | jonathan++ | t/qast_ (2 files):
Split out aggregate tests also.
jnthn coke++ # picking off lots of the LHF 12:06
au TimToady++ # original author; App::Uni is just an implementation of it
jnthn phenny: tell [Coke] tests breakup was good, I just did a few extra bits
phenny jnthn: I'll pass that on when [Coke] is around.
au . o O { "Implementation is the sincerest form of flattery." - L. Peter Deutsch }
dalek p-jvm-prep: b26a32d | jonathan++ | docs/ROADMAP:
Remove completed item.
 12:07
nwc10 which fruit is now the lowest hanging? (or am I asking a stupid question because you're updating that file as I type?) 12:09
jnthn nwc10: coke++ has been updating the LHF file. There's...not a lot left in it now. :) 12:10
ROADMAP gives the longer view of stuff to do 12:11
nwc10 aha
masak au: twitter.com/carlmasak/status/286445378038018050 :) 12:14
there's something slightly loopy about all this... 12:15
au you can say that again... 12:16
masak :P 12:21
nice, insightful comment on when to use right-associativity: arclanguage.org/item?id=16820 12:22
I like the rule "if it takes a Foo and a Bar and gives you a Bar in return". I'll keep on the lookout for that.
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hoelzro my pygments lexer successfully hilights all of Grammar.pm! \o/ 12:39
(with two minor bugs)
moritz \o/ 12:40
minor bugs are OK for a language as difficult to parse as Perl 6
hoelzro well, one is easy to fix 12:42
it's the one I mentioned earlier in the backlog
the other is role q { ... }
which the lexer is parsing as the role keyword + a quote word string 12:43
so I think what I'll do is fix the token sym: thing and announce an "alpha" of the lexer, so people can try it on their code, and see what breaks 12:44
arnsholt If it makes you feel better, it took quite a while before Rakudo realized that it's supposed to be a role decl, not a quote string too =)
I think that particular bug was fixed with one of the improved LTM patches
hoelzro I just have to tell the role rule in the lexer to look for an identifier and a look-ahead brace 12:45
it shouldn't be too bad!
I was going to test it on Actions.pm too, but I think that Grammar.pm is probably a good enough test 12:46
moritz note again that rakudo's Grammar.pm is NQP, not Perl 6 12:47
hoelzro ah, true
arnsholt NQP's syntax is a subset of Perl 6 though, isn't it? 12:48
hoelzro well, the reason I picked Grammar.pm is because a) it's a large body of Perl 6 code and b) it has a lot of token/rule/regex decls
FROGGS ... and a lot of quoted and escaped things 12:52
hoelzro FROGGS: which made it a pretty good test =) 12:54
I caught a *lot* of issues because of Grammar.pm
masak std: q { ... }
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 41m␤»
masak I can see how that one is tricky, yes... :) 12:55
hoelzro if anyone wants to try it out now, it's at bitbucket.org/hoelzro/pygments-main 12:56
moritz hoelzro: github.com/perl6/std/blob/master/STD.pm6 might be an even better test :-) 13:03
hoelzro heh
yikes, 6300 lines?! 13:04
3800 was enough
masak arnsholt: it is if you squint.
arnsholt: about on the same level as JSON is a subset of JavaScript syntax.
arnsholt Right, right 13:05
_sri masak: JSON isn't really a subset of JavaScript timelessrepo.com/json-isnt-a-javascript-subset 13:19
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masak _sri: ...which, if you read the context above, was really my point... 13:21
_sri ok :)
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_sri is there a list of incompatibilities between nqp and perl6? 13:22
masak none that I'm aware of.
nqp is fairly underdocumented, pending core dev tuits for such luxuries :) 13:23
_sri yea, guess it's rather unimportant 13:24
_sri can't wait to see rakudo run on the jvm
arnsholt Me too! 13:25
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arnsholt And when it does, I'm gonna try to submit a talk to the local Java developer's conference =D 13:25
From the looks of it, I should probably aim for the 2014 edition 13:26
Since this year's conference is early february
masak ++arnsholt 13:27
bbkr__ is there any built-in method to get hostname in p6?
masak not to my knowledge. 13:29
three hits for 'hostname' in S29. 13:30
seems 'gethost' might be what you're looking for.
(NYI anywhere)
arnsholt There's always Zavolaj =) 13:31
Or maybe a Parrot builtin of some kind
FROGGS there is nothing in parrots config AFAICT 13:34
dalek c: 5913946 | abcxyzp++ | lib/operators.pod:
Update lib/operators.pod

One character typo fix.		 13:35
c: cdb1cbb | (Konrad Borowski)++ | lib/operators.pod:
Merge pull request #12 from ghost/patch-1

Update lib/operators.pod
bbkr__ star: use NativeCall; sub gethostname(Str is rw, Int) returns Int is native { ... }; my $x = ""; gethostname($x, 32);
p6eval star 2012.12: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Null PMC access in get_bool()␤at /tmp/D_Ccua3CBR:1␤------> ␤»
[Coke] jnthn: Danke.
phenny [Coke]: 11:27Z <jnthn> tell [Coke] the approach you took for chars is the right one (or right enoubh for now...) - we shouldn't bind ourselves too tightly to Java String to the abstraction there is welcome.
[Coke]: 11:28Z <jnthn> tell [Coke] arrays are [Type, e.g. [Integer
[Coke]: 12:06Z <jnthn> tell [Coke] tests breakup was good, I just did a few extra bits
FROGGS star: use NativeCall; sub gethostname( Str $a is rw, Int $n) returns Int is native { ... }; my $x = ""; say gethostname($x, 32); say $x 13:37
p6eval star 2012.12: OUTPUT«0␤␤»
arnsholt Oh, it wants to write to a buffer 13:39
That doesn't work yet
FROGGS Inline::C would be your friend ;o) 13:40
arnsholt And I'm not sure if we can make it work 100% transparently
FROGGS (or an external c file)
arnsholt Strings in Parrot are immutable, so we can't really diddle with the Parrot strings themselves
It might be possible to do some trickery with the containers though
jnthn arnsholt: Probably we need to do something with Buf 13:42
arnsholt Yeah, that's probably the best option
Other option would be an operation similar to the write-barrier we do on complex objects coming out of a foreign function 13:43
But that'd mean string compares on all function calls, which isn't going to be good for performance
bbkr__ ok, so if NativeCall way does not work yet can system command be executed? like $x = `hostname` in p5? 13:47
r: say `hostname` 13:48
p6eval rakudo 13e805: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Two terms in a row␤at /tmp/Z7HWQOLMZb:1␤------> say ⏏`hostname`␤ expecting any of:␤ argument list␤ prefix or term␤ prefix or meta-prefix␤ postfix␤ infix or meta-infix␤ in…
jnthn try qx/hostname// 13:49
er, with a single / at the end
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bbkr__ jnthn++ works, thanks! 13:50
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kresike hello all you happy perl6 people 14:00
FROGGS hi kresike
kresike FROGGS, o/ 14:01
rindolf kresike: hi. 14:03
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kresike rindolf, o/ 14:17
rindolf kresike: what's up?
kresike rindolf, well if I look up, I see the ceiling, so I'd say that's up :) 14:18
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rindolf grumbles. 14:20
ggoebel jnthn: with regard to jvm backend are you aware of JSR 292 (InvokeDynamic) and JSR 335 (project Lambda)? 14:21
jnthn: irclog.perlgeek.de/perl6/2013-01-02#i_6290048
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masak rindolf: if you're not happy with such answers, would you please mind telling us what *is* up? :P 14:29
[Coke] ggoebel: neither of those are in a shipping java, neh?
au 292 is. 335 is in the next one
JRuby uses 292 pretty heavily, as does Nashorn (Node.jar). 14:30
jnthn ggoebel: I'm aware of inovkedynamic; the JAST thing I have should already be able to emit it or can with relatively little work. I'm not using it just yet, but have some ideas on how to. 14:31
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rindolf masak: well, I've tweaked the CSS on www.shlomifish.org/ so it won't overflow when the font size is enlarged too much. 14:31
jnthn ggoebel: 335 seems to be primarily about Java language changes, and I didn't yet see anything on changes being made to the JVM itself, which is what would be of more interest.
rindolf At least not without enlarging the images simultaneously.
And I tried E17 ZERO but it kept eating my Ctrl, Alt, etc. keys (at least in KDE apps) so I'm now back in KDE 4. 14:32
jnthn oh, seems that default methods cause some changes 14:33
au yeah, the semantic of invokeinterface and invokevirtual changed 14:34
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JJ_Brain Hi. I may have solved P=NP. Here is the link mathbin.net/133965 14:46
moritz JJ_Brain: please stop bothering us with that 14:47
JJ_Brain ok. sorry.
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masak wishes he had thought of making www.regexper.com/ 15:31
ooh, it uses Raphael. 15:32
[Coke] masak++ #nifty. 15:35
jnthn cute :) 15:36
masak clearly I need to investigate this RaphaelJS thing. 15:37
I mean, who's to say a presentation framework can't be built with it? :P
dalek ast: c039739 | moritz++ | S10-packages/basic.t:
RT #74592, return value from package declarations
 15:39
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moritz any idea on how best to fix rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=71544 ? 15:40
jnthn has a look
moritz it would be nice if one could copy the signature from one block to another
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moritz and use a \c param on that block, so that one only copies the constraints, not the binding 15:41
or something like that
jnthn hm 15:42
moritz rakudo: say 1 if 2 if 3 { say 3 }
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
moritz std: say 1 if 2 if 3 { say 3 }
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Missing semicolon at /tmp/yvUU8Qf3Ba line 1:␤------> say 1 if 2⏏ if 3 { say 3 }␤Parse failed␤FAILED 00:00 42m␤»
jnthn moritz: If we want to cheat a little... 15:43
Signature caches arity/count rather than calcuating them each time. 15:44
moritz woah
I see where the cheat is coming up :-)
jnthn Which menas you can...yeah, you guessed. :D
jnthn feels a little dirty for suggesting it
But it should fix the bug since MapIter only cares for .count, iirc. 15:45
And the closure in grep is private to grep and passed straight on to MapIter.
moritz aye 15:46
jnthn We probably wanna shallow-clone the $!signature so two threads doing a grep at once don't hit issues
Or just keep a cache of those by arity.
The other way is to have a GrepIter, but it'd be laregly a copy paste of MapIter 15:47
masak it's only cheating if you get caught :) 15:48
[Coke] says the man who is going to catch them.
jnthn :P
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isBEKaml hello, #perl6! 15:50
masak isBEKaml! \o/ 15:52
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isBEKaml hola, masak! I see there was more activity on #perl6 than I thought. :) 15:53
pmichaud Happy New Year, #perl6 15:54
phenny pmichaud: 01 Jan 18:37Z <FROGGS> ask pmichaud if it would be possible to get commit bit for rakudo, my CLA is in walnut since november
masak pmichaud! \o/
[Coke] pmichaud: happy new year.
isBEKaml oh, yeah - Happy new year!
masak isBEKaml: yeah. there is activity. the bastards haven't ground us down yet. :)
pmichaud I'm fine with FROGGS getting a commit bit if nobody objects; I don't have his github id to do it myself.
Yes, TPF received his CLA.
masak was gonna ask :) 15:55
FROGGS pmichaud: happy new year!
isBEKaml masak: if you're referring to doomsday naysayers, yeah - they got their calculations wrong. :)
FROGGS I'm FROGGS there
moritz it's FROGGS, same as the nick
pmichaud FROGGS: adding.
FROGGS github.com/FROGGS/
yay
jnthn happy new year, pmichaud :)
masak isBEKaml: no, it's just an expression. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illegitimi_n...arborundum 15:56
isBEKaml jnthn: good to see some work going on nqp-jvm. jnthn++
15:56 xinming left
dalek p-jvm-prep: 4557e1c | jonathan++ | docs/LHF.md:
Dangle some more LHF. :-)
 15:56
moritz rakudo: say :foo<<string\ here>>.perl 15:57
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
jnthn isBEKaml: coke++ also :)
pmichaud FROGGS: Added.
moritz r: say <<a\ b>>.perl
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
isBEKaml masak: Oh, I had never heard of that expression before.
FROGGS pmichaud: thanks
pmichaud all: note that we don't require CLAs for commitbits to the star repo 15:58
jnthn [Coke]: 4557e1c ;-)
isBEKaml jnthn: I remember adding a build.xml to the older nqp-jvm repo. Can I add it here too? Of course, all we need to do is add bcel jar to dependencies. :-)
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isBEKaml coke++ 15:58
timotimo what's a CLA?
moritz pmichaud: so are star commit bits to be handed out roughly as freely as to the perl6/ repos?
PerlJam Happy new year all! 15:59
moritz timotimo: contributor's license agreement
pmichaud moritz: yes
moritz pmichaud: ok, noted
pmichaud it's just the rakudo repo that requires CLAs
15:59 kaleem left
timotimo oh, ok 15:59
jnthn isBEKaml: I know just about nothing about the Right Way to handle the building stuff with regard to Java projects. If you know about that, you're most welcome to a commit bit and to work on it :)
pmichaud I'd be fine with us changing the membership team names to reflect that, fwiw.
isBEKaml jnthn: github.com/svatsan/6model/blob/mas.../build.xml
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[Coke] isBEKaml: Hurm? 15:59
jnthn: Hey, I'm at $DAYJOB, stop that!
brrt wait, i understand why for loops are lazy unless when in sink context
isBEKaml jnthn: the problem with build stuff in java-land is that there are more ways to build it than I care to count. :-) 16:00
jnthn: for instance, ant, ivy, maven - the big three.
brrt suppose you say my @foo = for (1..200) { $_ * 2 }; then return()-ing doesn't make sense
because, if you return from the routine, whatvalue will @foo have?
it'd be nonsense
isBEKaml [Coke]: Keep shooting down those LHFs! :) 16:01
16:01 Kharec_ left
jnthn [Coke]: I'm gonna be traveling a lot for the next several days, so I figured it couldn't hurt to stock it up with ideas of things to work on before I go :) 16:01
[Coke] isBEKaml: I'd probably go with ant, given we're not pulling in anything from outside the repo.
isBEKaml [Coke]: but that would mean that we keep dependencies in source repo. I hope jnthn's okay with that.
brrt anyway, am i anywhere near the truth? 16:02
isBEKaml [Coke]: all binary blobs that are jars.
[Coke] I will happily use something else if it's setup. Note that we already have a 3rdparty dir with bundled jars. 16:03
isBEKaml Okay - 6model was 2 years ago. Really? (Time ran by fast. :( )
(I'm looking at my own repo)
[Coke] r: say(nqp::p6box_s(nqp::sha1("hey there, rakudo")); 16:04
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
isBEKaml r: say(nqp::p6box__s(nqp::sha1("Hey there"))); 16:05
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
moritz r: say 42
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
[Coke] thinks about half of those new ones look like LHF, and the others will require more thinking.
moritz: ... nice golf.
jnthn isBEKaml: Lemme know your github ID if you want a commit bit for nqp-jvm-prep 16:06
[Coke] maybe I should give you a .... golf clap.
isBEKaml jnthn: not yet - I'm just afraid it might fall around like 6model. :(
[Coke] jnthn: ok, a good chunk of that really does look like LHF. :) 16:07
thanks.
isBEKaml jnthn: the github link I gave you above was from my own repo - 2 years ago. :(
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jnthn isBEKaml: The 6model repo was largely a place to do resarch. That fed into building the pieces that Rakudo works on today, and considered how they could look on other VMs. What's being done in nqp-jvm-prep is an implementation of the things we need to run today's NQP and Rakudo on the JVM. 16:09
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isBEKaml jnthn: I understand that. I'm more concerned that I may not be able to contribute as much as I want to, if the past is anything to go by. 16:12
jnthn isBEKaml: ah, I see 16:13
isBEKaml: Well, just let me know if you fancy contributing something, and I'm happy to let you have a commit bit. :)
isBEKaml jnthn: sure, if something comes out of my eclipse IDE. :) 16:14
jnthn FROGGS: $foreign_proto := self.find_symbol([$_.key]); - is the foreign dispatcher not just be $_.value? 16:15
I mean, the thing that's in scope when you do the find_symbol call is the same thing as the target proto, I think. 16:16
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isBEKaml jnthn: in terms of the ROADMAP, where are we currently now? 16:18
masak .oO( not in Kansas anymore )
isBEKaml lol 16:19
masak don't let the wicked witch grind you down. 16:20
isBEKaml masak: $day-job's playing that role now. 16:22
moritz r: my $x := $(); say $x.perl
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
isBEKaml r: my $x = $(); $x.WHAT.say; 16:23
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
moritz nr: $_ = 'abc'; m/(.)/; say $)(
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
..niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤␤Non-declarative sigil is missing its name at /tmp/OKdZ4FdoPw line 1:␤------> $_ = 'abc'; m/(.)/; say ⏏$)(␤␤Unsupported use of bare 'say'; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant $_, or use an explicit invoc…
moritz nr: $_ = 'abc'; m/(.)/; say $()
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
..niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«a␤»
isBEKaml it's really broken now?
jnthn isBEKaml: github.com/jnthn/nqp-jvm-prep/blob...cs/ROADMAP is most of the stuff that needs building to get most of what's needed for cross-compiling NQP in place 16:25
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moritz feather1's disc has run full 16:25
isBEKaml jnthn: so, we are still laying the bricks, but no cement? 16:26
moritz everybody with a feather account, please check your home dirs
pmichaud moritz: checking 16:27
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jnthn isBEKaml: Depends what you consider as cement :) 16:28
moritz pmichaud: yours looks not too big, with 84M
jnthn
.oO( ain't the cement meant to go between the bricks... )
pmichaud moritz: it was 335M :-)
I just removed 251M
moritz pmichaud: thanks
isBEKaml jnthn: yeah, we have nothing to stand on. :-)
moritz ... and something is using up all that free space immediately
pmichaud the 84M is the synopsis subversion dump from when we converted svn->git 16:29
I'll keep it around just-in-case for a bit longer
moritz pmichaud: +1
[Coke] 11584 azawawi 20 0 5556 1484 1252 R 96.3 0.1 158:45.48 perl ?
moritz usually when the disc is full, it's one or two home dirs that are really huge
isBEKaml jnthn: about your makefile, we depend on nqp to build and test nqp-jvm?
moritz [Coke]: your home dir is 5.1G, do you need that all? 16:30
arnsholt If space is immediately eaten up, maybe you have a runaway process?
jnthn isBEKaml: Yes
[Coke] moritz: I'm poking now.
jnthn isBEKaml: nqp by now is written almost entirely in nqp
isBEKaml moritz: I'm not sure, how much swap space is there now?
arnsholt If you have lsof, that might give you a pointer
moritz isBEKaml: is that relevant?
isBEKaml moritz: If we are talking about runaway processes. Like I said, I don't have any picture on this. 16:31
jnthn isBEKaml: The idea being that we'll get a cross-compiler going then getting it to spit out an nqp on JVM, that has no dependency on NQP on Parrot. :)
moritz can I ask lsof to only list FDs opened for writing?
isBEKaml jnthn: well, I was more of the impression that we have to have an nqp2jvm translator. 16:32
jnthn isBEKaml: Not really. At the moment it is a QAST -> JVM translator. :)
isBEKaml jnthn: that is, translate nqp code directly to run on jvm :-) (naive, maybe)
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arnsholt moritz: From a skim of the man page, it seems that the FD output item describes the mode (read, write, ...) of an fd as well as its number 16:33
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isBEKaml jnthn: I have your project open in eclipse and am source-diving now. :) 16:35
16:35 brrt left
moritz oh dammit 16:36
pmichaud -s to lsof shows file size, if that helps.
moritz if a still-open file handle uses up all that space, du won't show it, right?
[Coke] is there any point to more pruning of my homedir at this point?
pmichaud moritz: correct, du doesn't find files not linked into the tree 16:37
moritz [Coke]: just on general principle
pmichaud s/tree/filesystem
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[Coke] is azawawi here? 16:43
moritz moritz.faui2k3.org/tmp/lsof.out # outptu of lsof -s|grep home
pmichaud /tmp/UIR5AJNtCP 16:44
rootfs is also at 100%
moritz but that's not mounted on /home
moritz deletes that temp file
16:45 Pleiades` left
pmichaud I'm pretty sure it's the azawawi process that must be eating up space 16:45
there's also a long-running "gitit" process running.
moritz gitit is our wiki, no?
[Coke] pmichaud: he's running a temp file that shouldn't really be taking all that long.
moritz killed 16:46
pmichaud moritz: I don't know anything about gitit
other than it's showing up at the top of 'top'
[Coke] and now we're at 97%
pmichaud and nothing appears to be eating up the free space
and root, /var, and /home all appear to be the same filesystem or device somehow 16:47
moritz phenny: tell azawawi that I killed a process of his on feather that filled up the file systems. Please be more careful in future (ulimit is your friend)
phenny moritz: I'll pass that on when azawawi is around.
pmichaud (see output of 'df')
16:47 wtw left
[Coke] moritz: I'll clean up more homedir space after lunch. 16:48
kresike bye folks
16:48 kresike left
moritz [Coke]: thanks 16:49
moritz runs apt-get autoclean
pmichaud fwiw, the command I used to find the big temp file was 'lsof -s | grep -v "/lib/" | less' and then search for azawawi
FROGGS jnthn: I got errors when using $_.value instead of self.find_symbol([$_.key]), but yes, I thought too that these should be the same
16:51 Pleiades` joined
jnthn FROGGS: What errors, ooc? 16:53
jnthn tracks down RT#116268 to an optimizer issue
rindolf FROGGS: hi. 16:55
isBEKaml what's .WHO meant to do? 17:00
r: Int.WHO.say 17:01
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
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masak r: say Int.WHO 17:04
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
masak hrm.
r: module M {}; say M.WHO 17:05
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
isBEKaml in my local run, it always returns ().hash
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jnthn .WHO returns the underlying Stash (which is a kind of Hash) 17:06
The place where our things inside the package live
masak r: module M { our $foo }; say M.WHO 17:07
p6eval rakudo 13e805: ( no output )
masak the stash is very... silent, though.
jnthn masak: p6eval's Rakudo build currently busted due to disk space issue
masak oh!
isBEKaml masak: I thought you already knew that.
(p6eval build brokenness) 17:08
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isBEKaml jnthn: S12 says that it's used to disambiguate methods between classes and traits. That's as far as my english skills go. :) 17:09
moritz tonyarcieri.com/dci-in-ruby-is-completely-broken # seems that in most (all) ruby VMs, mixing a role into an instance invalidates all method cashes
masak isBEKaml: I saw people talk about feather in the backlog, but I didn't connect the wires, it seems. 17:10
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moritz on feather, it seems that /var/spool/qmail is huge 17:11
isBEKaml thinks slow masak-ness is not something we see often. :P
moritz I've been running a 'du' process on it for several minutes now, and now response yet
masak isBEKaml: if that is so, it's only because I hide it well most of the time :P 17:12
moritz and load average is >7
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dalek kudo/nom: 0f0bb50 | jonathan++ | src/binder/bind.c:
Teach compile time bind analysis about (|) sig.

It now recognizes such a signature as accepting anything, and thus certain to be a successful match.		 17:23
kudo/nom: f63c42d | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.pm:
Check proto as well as candidates in optimizer.

This fixes issues where we could end up inlining calls to candidates that would never be reachable due to restrictions in the proto. Also, we catch some such issues at compile time now.
kudo/nom: 799d759 | jonathan++ | src/core/Numeric.pm:
Fix incorrect exp proto.
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moritz r: say 42 17:30
ok, /var/spool/qmail on feather is 16G 17:31
FROGGS jnthn: give me a few minutes, I'll paste then...
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FROGGS rindolf: hi 17:31
rindolf FROGGS: what's up?
moritz any idea what to do about that?
I guess rm -rf isn't such a good idea, is it?
p6eval rakudo : OUTPUT«Can't exec "./nom-inst/bin/perl6": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 200.␤exec (./nom-inst/bin/perl6 --setting=RESTRICTED /tmp/a6Y4pYPKQM) failed: No such file or directory␤Server error occurred! Closing Link: feather3.perl6.nl (Quit: p6eval)␤Lost … 17:32
FROGGS rindolf: the kids (but only just), and perl 6 of course 17:33
rindolf FROGGS: OK.
FROGGS grammars a bit to parse perl 6 code, and bughunting 17:34
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moritz rn: say 42 17:38
17:38 p6eval left
moritz sorry, I guess I'll have to postpone fixing p6eval until feather has normal-ish performance characteristics again 17:39
and after my table tennis training :-)
17:39 p6eval joined, ChanServ sets mode: +v p6eval
moritz though I won't complain if anybody beat me to it (fixing feather, that is :-) 17:39
bbi3h 17:40
&
17:40 cognominal joined, djanatyn joined
p6eval ..niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«42␤» 17:40
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dalek kudo/nom: bd41d2f | jonathan++ | src/Perl6/Optimizer.pm:
Improve error reporting when proto is to blame.
 17:50
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tadzik moritz: re feather diskspace, do you know of ncdu? 17:54
timotimo ncdu is a nice tool, i use it often
tadzik apparently it's even installed, my $HOME is ~750 meg 17:55
was, actually :)
jnthn std: say "You can even call &uc('functions')!" 17:56
p6eval std a8bc48f: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 44m␤»
isBEKaml jnthn: I almost got SHA1 working. (yes, "almost") :) 18:00
jnthn :) 18:04
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jnthn afk for a bit 18:15
FROGGS jnthn: here it is: gist.github.com/4436609
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JJ_Brain Thanks Raptor 18:43
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[Coke] argh, other people stealing my LHF! ;) 18:48
It really shouldn't take minutes for 'ccache -C' to clear my cache, should it? ;( 18:49
isBEKaml [Coke]: were you looking to implement sha1? 18:51
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isBEKaml [Coke]: You can take that if you want to. I'm just too tired today or I don't see anything at all. :) 18:51
flussence [Coke]: depends on the filesystem. It's basically doing an rm -rf
[Coke] isBEKaml: nono, that's fine, take it! 18:52
I'm stuck at $DAYJOB anyway.
isBEKaml [Coke]: Ah, day-jobs eat up all our time. :(
[Coke] spent last 2 days of break happily poking at nqp-jvm-prep as time permitted. 18:53
18:54 fgomez left 18:55 thou joined
isBEKaml hmm, I only have minutes to count before I drop off. (Another day wasted) 18:55
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isBEKaml now, where do we have tests for sha1 in nqp? 19:11
[Coke] anyone know if it's safe to rm perlbrew's build/ dirs? 19:27
(uninstall didn't remove them.) 19:28
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masak nice Rob Pike talk about lexing. www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxaD_trXwRE summary: don't write state machines as switch statements, that's boring. instead, just have lexing functions HOPly return each other. 19:41
flussence H? 19:43
geekosaur higher order programming
[Coke] Higher Order Programmingly.
flussence oh, duh. my brain decided "OP" was "-Oriented Programming" and got stuck :) 19:44
isBEKaml jnthn: Here's my stab at sha1. Admittedly, all indentation is screwed, sleepiness and everything. github.com/svatsan/nqp-jvm-prep/co...abacf9c3b5 :)
masak: I read that as "Happily" return each other. :| 19:45
[Coke] isBEKaml: are you using eclipse? 19:47
isBEKaml [Coke]: no,vim.
[Coke]: I originally did that in eclipse and I found that I needed to set up git. :/
flussence an odd idea: is it possible to take a list of subs and attempt to use them as multis? 19:48
isBEKaml (on windows), though I had it in cygwin. (so I switched to vim)
[Coke] haivng all the whitespace changes makes it hard to digest that.
flussence (by "list", I mean an actual runtime-assigned array of &code things) 19:49
isBEKaml [Coke]: yeah, I know - here are the basic changes: gist.github.com/4437043
[Coke] other than that, +1, though.
isBEKaml and follow down to the last one: in qast_string.t
[Coke] someone bored? take over search.cpan.org/~tobix/OO-DateTime-0.01/ and kill it. 19:59
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masak [Coke]: what do you mean "and kill it"? there must be some assumed procedure I'm missing here. 20:07
FROGGS well, once you are the owner you could write to ANDK and let him remove the registered namespace I guess 20:08
isBEKaml masak: "kill boredom", mayhaps. :P 20:09
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masak isBEKaml: :) 20:09
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isBEKaml :q 20:27
hugme hugs isBEKaml, good vi(m) user!
isBEKaml :q 20:28
hugme hugs isBEKaml, good vi(m) user!
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dalek kudo/froggs_mergemulti: 763a621 | (Tobias Leich)++ | src/Perl6/World.pm:
possible fix for multi-method import bug

This patch allows you to import multi methods from several modules. It merges the dispachtee lists. Two identical dispatchee signatures dont clash yet, since I am unable to compare signatures.		 20:33
[Coke] masak: remove it from CPAN is what I meant (so people don't confuse it with DateTime, as I just did) 20:36
Date::Time is just a pod file, that's it.
masak ah.
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jnthn back 21:14
[Coke] jnthn: there's a pull request. I was going to try to tease out the whitespace formatting, but don't really care. Not sure if you do. (if we do, we should add project settings to enforce something.) 21:16
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jnthn I'd rather it was consistently formatted 21:18
Also, it shouldn't just go printing stuff to stderr, if there's an exception it should be thrown.
[Coke] wasn't sure if we needed to rethrow there or not. 21:19
just let the original exception out? 21:20
jnthn Can do that also
s/also//
tadzik obtw, jnthn, do you have your AOP module around somewhere? 21:22
I thought today, now that there are threads and semaphores, this one is lines away from being a Monitor implementation possibly :)
jnthn tadzik: I don't think I ever made it into a real module, but the code is probably easy to steal from the PDF 21:23
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masak ++tadzik # publishing jnthn's AOP module :) 21:30
jnthn ;0 21:31
tadzik oh noes, I'm doomed
moritz rn: say 42 21:35
p6eval rakudo bd41d2, niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«42␤»
dalek kudo/nom: f5037ef | moritz++ | / (3 files):
remove "SAFE" setting
moritz \o/ p6eval fixed
21:37 skids left
jnthn \o/ 21:37
Righty, let's see if I can get anywhere with attributes in nqp-jvm...
moritz I didn't do anything for that now, seems the cronjobs did it for me :-)
masak the cronjobs made a commit? 21:38
wow.
moritz no, fixing p6eval :-)
masak oh, right.
by the way, we should totally have cronjobs making commits for us :) 21:39
moritz I think [Coke]++ has
masak anyway, clearly I'm too tired to IRC.
'night, #perl6
jnthn 'night, masak
moritz good night. Dream of not being tired.
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alex_Perl_new Is Python Perl6? 21:41
tadzik hugme: hug alex_Perl_new 21:42
hugme hugs alex_Perl_new
alex_Perl_new Can anyone tell me if Python is perl6?
sorear No
tadzik welcome
sorear Python is not Perl 6 21:43
alex_Perl_new Thanks tadzik
thanks sorear
moritz nr: say 'Python' eq 'Perl6' 21:44
p6eval rakudo bd41d2, niecza v24-12-g8e50362: OUTPUT«False␤»
alex_Perl_new I Installed Rakudo but I could not find out how to instal an editor that could help with my Syntax. After 4 days I am going Crazy. 21:46
moritz use vim
it has Perl 6 syntax hilighting
tadzik alex_Perl_new: do you just need syntax hilighting, or something more sophisticated?
that's a tricky questions, as I don't think anything more sophisticated is available :) 21:47
moritz padre has some more sophisticated stuff, I think
alex_Perl_new I think just hilithing would work, I have found many ways but can get them installed for windows. I think I just do not know much and Brut force is not working. 21:48
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alex_Perl_new I even had problem to get on the IRC channel. I was using Browser. Finaly Instaled IRC App. 21:49
moritz hugs alex_Perl_new 21:50
root@feather:~# qmail-qstat
messages in queue: 1179019
messages in queue but not yet preprocessed: 1179019
tadzik whoa 21:51
jnthn yowser!
Guess that's where the 16 gigs are :) 21:52
moritz indeed
root@feather:~# /etc/init.d/qmail stop 21:53
Stopping mail-transfer agent: qmail not running.
alex_Perl_new To All: I think here you all are just at a higher level than me. At this time I have been reading and reading and did not get any place yet. Finaly some one said get Python as it coms Complete. Use it Learn it then go to perl6.
Is that correct? I cant even do simple thing like prodo::xxxx 21:54
moritz wtf is prodo::xxxx ? 21:55
alex_Perl_new do not even know were to type it.
I whish very much to undrestand "wtf is prodo::xxxx ?" Where do I Start to learn perl <period> ? lol 21:57
jnthn alex_Perl_new: Perl 6 isn't yet at the point where things are packaged up in the way you're seeking. If you're looking for getting into Perl then Perl 5 may be easier in some senses, since there's for example the Padre IDE, which probably gives you the experience you are after.
alex_Perl_new: And I'd expect Perl 5 => Perl 6 will be an easier jump than Python => Perl 6 if that's your end goal. 21:58
alex_Perl_new <alex_Perl_new> What do you recomend I am a good programer I just lost to get started. 21:59
[Coke] moritz: yes, I have cronjobs that commit for me. I do the push, though.
moritz just deletes all the large files in the qmail queue 22:00
jnthn alex_Perl_new: See padre.perlide.org/download.html
The windows download on the left.
alex_Perl_new Thanks jntn I will do that. 22:01
flussence alex_Perl_new: what is this "prodo::xxxx" you speak of? www.google.com/search?q=%22prodo::xxxx%22
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alex_Perl_new jnthn, Should I remove Rakudo and Activeperl and python before installing DWIM Perl 5.14.2.1 (v7). 22:04
moritz alex_Perl_new: no need for that
alex_Perl_new Maritz, Would they not conflect with each othe. and in the Command line of Windows when i enter perl -v what would it say and How does it know wiich perl? 22:06
moritz they do not conflict.
alex_Perl_new: most or all of the Rakudo developers use Perl 5 too, so we had incentive to make them not conflict 22:07
jnthn alex_Perl_new: Note that Rakudo's executable is called perl6.exe, and python's is probably python.exe, so no risk there :) 22:08
alex_Perl_new Thanks to all I hope as time passes I can learn to be helpful to others here. I am going to try now. 22:09
moritz something is really strange on feather 22:10
I've been running rm -rf on the qmail queue (which is 16G in size) for several minutes
and the load goes up to 7
flussence is it on ext3?
moritz but 'df' doesn't report more free space
flussence: yes
flussence it's probably sorting through a gigantic maildir and everything else is getting blocked on IO 22:11
moritz you mean it sorts before it starts to delete?
[Coke] moritz: is it the same thing were somethig else is grabbing space as you open it? 22:12
flussence well, it has to read the directory before deleting... and if it's an old machine it probably doesn't have dir_index enabled so that's a linear scan each time
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[Coke] might explain why it was so slow to clear out my ~/.ccache 22:21
Glitchmr is holding at 17% Mem util. 22:23
p6eval should probably nice itself when building. 22:24
moritz aye, it should
moritz -> sleep 22:25
[Coke] ugh. feather is behaving oddly. "ls .cpanm" hangs, ^C doesn't kill it. 22:30
flussence try ^\
22:32 alex_Perl_new left
[Coke] p6eval is no longer building, and now things are much better. 22:32
and ^\ doesn't help when things are hanging in this case, unfortunately. 22:33
(not immediately, anyway)
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bitonic is there a go-to document to learn about perl6? I know next to 0 about perl5. 22:38
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FROGGS bitonic: get the book: github.com/perl6/book/downloads 22:40
bitonic FROGGS: thank you. I suppose that’s going to be good with the rakudo shipped with wheezy?
rakudo 0.1~2012.01-1 specifically 22:41
FROGGS well, these are a bit outdated so some things might not work
wow, there are huge improvements since then
bitonic OK, so I should get a newer one... 22:42
FROGGS right
bitonic: maybe install this: github.com/rakudo/star
it comes with some useful modules
bitonic FROGGS: thanks 22:43
FROGGS bitonic: if you arn't used to git you might download a zipball from here: rakudo.org/
bitonic: you're welcome
bitonic FROGGS: I am used to scm, but I might download something else to get something more stable then an HEAD 22:44
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