»ö« Welcome to Perl 6! | perl6.org/ | evalbot usage: 'perl6: say 3;' or rakudo:, niecza:, std:, or /msg camelia perl6: ... | irclog: irc.perl6.org/ | UTF-8 is our friend!
Set by moritz on 3 May 2013.
dalek : 19ecc83 | (Tobias Leich)++ | t/test.pl:
silence warnings in sub is()
 06:31
: 01aa6d2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
add P5Str to Bool
: c799910 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/ (4 files):
move $? to Perl5::Terms
dalek : e320b09 | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
status update after changes to is(), Bool.P5Str and $?
 06:46
dalek ast: 12bcc92 | moritz++ | S32-hash/ (2 files):
unfudge slice+adverb tests
 07:23
kresike hello all you happy perl6 people 07:33
sorear o/
brrt hi kresike
labster good morning all 07:36
FROGGS O/ 07:38
labster r: say "VERSION".IO.slurp 07:42
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'readall' for invocant of type 'Any'␤ in method slurp at src/gen/CORE.setting:11159␤ in block at /tmp/G_LsJSxR_V:1␤␤»
labster r: say "VERSION".IO.open.slurp 07:43
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«v15-4-g1f35f89␤␤»
labster Should the first version work?
moritz yes 07:44
the error message leaks internal details
labster well, that's a problem too... but opening the handle isn't specced. 07:45
moritz r: say slurp 'VERSION' 07:46
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«v15-4-g1f35f89␤␤»
labster different spec for the method. I think I'll probably fix that.
moritz it just feels weird if the sub form works without explict open, but the method form doesn't
++labster 07:47
labster oh, hilarious, IO::Handle.open isn't specced 07:51
sorear sandbox fail 08:12
dagurval r: "/tmp/hai".IO.spurt("hello") 08:24
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'spurt' for invocant of type 'IO::Handle'␤ in block at /tmp/7FDla8CYpg:1␤␤»
dagurval if IO::Handle has slurp, shouldn't it also have spurt? 08:25
lizmat moritz++ 08:26
moritz dagurval: .spurt is the same as .print, really 08:31
oh, except that .spurt would auto-open too 08:32
FROGGS hmmm, but with an implicit open and close, no?
moritz so, yes
FROGGS :o)
moritz FROGGS++, dagurval++
labster dagurval: I saw your pull request on spurt -- I was thinking that spurt(IO::Handle) should be a wrapper around IO::Handle.spurt.
labster does open( :p ) mean pipe? 08:40
FROGGS yes
lizmat wonders if that is not too confusing with :p from .pairs 08:41
labster Are the contexts at all similar? 08:42
moritz no 08:43
but open( :p ) is likely to be replaced with a separate pipe() function or so anyway
lizmat ok 08:43
moritz introduces open('file', :kv), which opens 'file' as a key-value store. All just to annoy lizmat++ :-) 08:57
lizmat actually, I love key-value stores… been using MySQL for years like that :-) 08:58
bonsaikitten moritz: perl6. the NoSQL language of choice? ;)
brrt nice 09:03
lizmat moritz: actually, would the :kv imply Any %h{Str}, or would it allow for other keytypes / of as well 09:06
moritz lizmat: I was really just kidding 09:07
lizmat too bad, because I really need that, actually :-)
but maybe not as part of open()
more likely on slurp() and spurt() 09:08
labster I'm adding IO::Handle.encoding instead, which I think will be more useful. 09:15
lizmat psssttt… everybody's a hacking! 10:21
lizmat is working on :delete in combination with :k:v:kv:p 10:22
and wonders why not to add :vk immediately as well, masak?
lizmat Support for subscript adverb :delete in combination with :kv :p :k :v github.com/rakudo/rakudo/pull/158 13:03
timotimo how many of them can you have at the same time? :D
lizmat See S02:2514
Combining subscript adverbs
timotimo foun dit 13:04
sometimes perl6 is just crazy :)
lizmat the last 6 are trickier than I thought
next thing, writing more todo tests :-) 13:07
raiph S02:2514 (eg) lands far from intended target. view source shows line num links are borked 13:43
pmurias tadzik: ping 13:45
lizmat raiph: you mean in the irclog?
raiph right 13:45
lizmat ok, that would be up moritz' alley 13:46
afk for a few hours
raiph it's not the link, it's the target html file
to clarify, yes, the link from the irclog, but no, the error is in perlcabal.org/syn/S02.html 13:48
moritz raiph: those are generated from util/Text-SmartLinks/script/smartlinks.pl in the Mu repo, iirc 14:16
census hi! is anybody here familiar with cygwin? 14:25
kresike bye folks 14:55
tadzik pmurias: pong 15:03
pmurias tadzik: is there a suggested hotel/hostel where people coming to the PLPW are staying? (like at a yapc?) 15:32
tadzik pmurias: no, no particular one 15:35
there's a "who stays where" at the wiki
I think sergot_ found some chaep one nearby too
daxim tadzik, where's the preconf beet-up at? 15:41
tadzik daxim: maps.google.com/maps?saddr=Metro+Po...s&z=17 15:43
uhh
well, linked from
act.yapc.eu/plpw2013/news/1019
also on plpw2013.pl/
please sign up on the wiki if you're coming 15:44
oh, you did :) daxim++
jnthn evening, #perl6 15:50
tadzik evening jnthn
masak evening, #perl6! 15:57
FROGGS o/ 16:01
masak lizmat: I'm fine with adding :vk immediately. 16:43
TimToady
.oO(how do you spell .p backwards?)
 16:51
er, :p even 16:52
geekosaur ... :q ?
FROGGS q:
masak r: say (1 => 2).reverse 16:54
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
masak hrm.
FROGGS r: say @(1 => 2).reverse 16:55
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1 2␤»
FROGGS :/
GlitchMr masak, I think you can unban me now. I think my connection is now more stable.
masak GlitchMr: will do. 16:56
GlitchMr (at least I hope so)
masak GlitchMr: done.
FROGGS argh!, "for my $x (1) { ... }" is driving me nuts, it declares $x outside of for's body -.- 16:58
pointy blocks make so much more sense
GlitchMr Huh?
I though that my $x is only visible inside for {} here 16:59
FROGGS v5 that is
GlitchMr In Perl 5, if I remember correctly "for" variable can be only "local" or "my". 17:00
So it never should declare it outside of for's body.
FROGGS GlitchMr: I'm talking about the v5-module I am writing for rakudo 17:02
FROGGS so, your expectation is totally right, my module is just misbehaving 17:02
TimToady r: say int.^nativesize 17:03
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«0␤»
TimToady um...
FROGGS hehe
FROGGS NOT ENOUGH!! 17:03
GlitchMr Native size of int is 0.
TimToady r: say int8.^nativesize
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«8␤»
GlitchMr Makes sense.
FROGGS GlitchMr: how can it possibly be zero?
TimToady you'd think it would know how big an int is...
GlitchMr That's simple, it contains nothing.
jnthn TimToady: I suspect 0 is being used to indicate "machine specific" 17:04
FROGGS I am thinking of an C-type int when reading 'native int'
jnthn TimToady: That is, "we didn't set it to anything" :)
FROGGS jnthn: the vm should be queried to set that 17:05
TimToady well, then how do I find out what that machine-specific size is? the size of int8 is rather boring
FROGGS use Config? :P
TimToady is trying to write the RC entry for getting variable sizes
jnthn TimToady: Hm, point. It simply wasn't designed for conveying that. 17:06
TimToady r: class { has int $.foo }; # how does this know the size? 17:06
camelia rakudo 267c54: ( no output )
jnthn Such is the wonder of having a MOP. Stuff you added to get stuff done is suddenly user visible :)
TimToady well, just wait till I start working on the entry for *setting* a variable's size :) 17:07
FROGGS >.<
jnthn TimToady: Well, the "nativesize" thing is conveyed to the REPR, which is a low-level thing that in the Parrot case just does sizeof(INTVAL) these days.
TimToady: The sized stuff is hardly "done" in any sense. What's done is there to be useful to NativeCall. 17:08
Though I think arnsholt++ got some of the P6opaque bits righter too
FROGGS about my "for my $x (1) { ... }"-problem, I guess I should call check_variable() within sblock, and set a dynvar in token for 17:12
jnthn dinner, bbl 17:22
dalek rl6-roast-data: ba9d001 | coke++ | / (4 files):
today (automated commit)
 17:50
[Coke] rakudo still failing (18 days) 17:51
TimToady r: say int64.^nativesize; 18:02
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«64␤»
TimToady r: my int64 $long-long; say $long-long.^nativesize
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'nativesize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤ in block at /tmp/x42SMusW2B:1␤␤»
TimToady r: my int64 @long-long; say @long-long.of.^nativesize 18:05
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Int'␤ in block at /tmp/E7rHzFav63:1␤␤»
TimToady o_O
flussence r: my int64 %longlong; say %longlong.of.^nativesize 18:06
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'of' for invocant of type 'Int'␤ in block at /tmp/OxZnR0JF4v:1␤␤»
flussence that's weird, it says «of class 'Int'» on my end...
TimToady er, .of should be *returning* Int, not looking up .of in Int 18:07
TimToady well, it should be returning int64, but that's a different issue 18:07
lizmat hi #perl6! (back from cycling + dinner)
masak: unless @TimToady disagrees, I will implement :vk 18:08
TimToady are we getting a double call to .of.of somehow?
lizmat and update the spec accordingly :-) 18:09
TimToady or is it not finding .^nativesize in type Int and emitting a bogus error message on .of's dispatch instead?
r: my Int @long-long; say @long-long.of.^nativesize
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'nativesize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤ in block at /tmp/dtJB8rEgFy:1␤␤»
diakopter rn: say (Array[Int].new=[]).WHAT
TimToady no, that's a diffrent error
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object␤ at Builtins.InvokeSub (Niecza.P6any obj, Niecza.Variable[] pos) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 ␤ at Niecza.Kernel.ToComposable (Niecza.STable arg…
..rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«(Array+{TypedArray})␤»
TimToady sigh, they're all typed arrays... 18:10
lizmat and the WHAT doesn't tell what type if it :-(
TimToady well, the stringification of it doesn't 18:11
.WHAT itself is a type object
[Coke] I would really like to get this rakudo GC issue resolved before the next release.
lizmat so, is there a way to found out what the type is? Of a TypedArray or TypedHash
TimToady r: say (Array[Int].new=[]).WHAT.WHICH
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«Array+{TypedArray}␤»
diakopter r: say (Array[Int].new=[]) 18:12
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«␤»
TimToady but yeah, it should oughta mention Int in there somewhere
[Coke] also, if I"ve pinged you about a modules failure, I'd appreciate it if you could take a look so we can consider a star release this month. (perljam, arnsholt. jnthn, not sure if you can resolve the xavolaj bug or not.)
(sorry about bad spelling, typing blind. ;) 18:13
(no failures in rakudo today other than the GC error) 18:14
masak today's autopun spotting: twitter.com/HackerNewsOnion/status...6613609472 18:17
dalek ecs: 451c4bb | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Added spec for :vk subscript adverbial

I assume we will need a .vk method later as well. Will spec this later unless someone beats me to it / tells me not to do it.		 18:23
[Coke] why do we need .vk ? 18:28
(what is it solving that .kv doesn't?)
[Coke] (looks like this is the only place it's in the specs) 18:29
lizmat [Coke] is not wrong about that 18:31
it was something that came up the other day, with masak, and since I was working in that part of the neighborhood anyway, and I can also see a use for it in some situations 18:32
I specced it
TimToady we can probably come up with a better name than 'nativesize' too, which has both the ill-defined term "native", as well as the overly-generic term "size" 18:33
lizmat TimToady: homesize?
diakopter can't use bytes?
TimToady it's *bits*, case proven
diakopter byteseach?
bitseach?
lizmat natsize 18:34
labster I guess it would be cheaper than .kv.reverse, though .vk would be an easy typo.
lizmat labster: right now, it would *not* be cheaper, bit it *could*
TimToady we already know it's native anyway, so just .bits, except that we have several of those measurements to deal with 18:35
[Coke] -1 to adding .vk - looks very reundant compared to .kv
diakopter TimToady: are you looking for information capacity of the unit, or amount of memory used
TimToady the bits attached to a type may or may not be the overall size in bits of the type
for int64, yes, both are 64, but for complex64, the overall size is 128
(in bits)
diakopter which one are you looking for
[Coke] I didn't see any serious discussion in the irc logs, mainly a note to add it as a whimsical addition to list::utils 18:36
TimToady maybe .bits returns the base size of the type, and .bytes returns the actual memory footprint, including alignment 18:37
flussence but... Str.bytes
lizmat [Coke]: i'll halt implementation until we have a consensus :-) 18:38
TimToady assuming we never want to measure memory footprint as less than a byte, which is a dubious assumption for bit arrays and such
flussence: you mean Buf.bytes surely
Str doesn't do bytes
flussence probably, yeah.
TimToady well, those are the same sized bytes, so it's okay
flussence oh, that's fine then
TimToady say int2.^bytes; # 0.25 :) 18:39
diakopter heh.
TimToady as one datapoint, I've never felt the need for vk meownself 18:41
TimToady so I wouldn't necessarily add it just for some kind consistency or completeness 18:42
dalek ecs: c33114e | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S02-bits.pod:
Revert "Added spec for :vk subscript adverbial"

This reverts commit 451c4bbfc0dc3b0337392962cbb7e5c57cba7135.		 18:43
TimToady does NativeHOW store alignment requirements yet? doesn't seem like it... 18:44
lizmat that's good enough as a "no" to me :-)
labster okay, since we're in the mood to complain about adding things, does anyone have any opinion on adding IO::Handle.encoding, to read/set file encoding? 18:51
jnthn TimToady: Alignment is a REPR concern, not a meta-object one. 18:52
TimToady: Desired size is only a meta-object concern in that we tell the meta-object stuff so they can compose the REPR with the right stuff.
So unless we think configurable alignment is desirable... :) 18:53
Which I guess it perhaps is. Hm. :) 18:54
diakopter :alignment('left-drifting') 18:55
masak as another datapoint, I have felt the need for .vk -- namely, in connection with reversing a list of key/value items.
lizmat masak: [Coke]'s argument is that you can do that with .kv.reverse 18:56
ah, of course, but *not* as a subscript adverbial in a chain 18:57
right?
masak lizmat: .kv.reverse was what I did -- and then I had to give the for loop parameters in the $value, $key order.
TimToady okay, initial entry for rosettacode.org/wiki/Variable_size/Get#Perl_6 19:00
timotimo oh, interesting
a few days ago i was looking at that and wondered how to do it
TimToady jnthn: from a language point of view, repr is hidden behind .HOW, therefore it's a meta-object thing :) 19:05
but for something like complex64 I'd like some way to query both the 64 and the 128 19:06
or maybe the 64 bits and the 16 (bytes)
whether or not it includes alignment in the latter
jnthn r: say Int.REPR :P 19:07
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤You can't adverb that␤at /tmp/advqSmzP1v:1␤------> say Int.REPR :P⏏<EOL>␤ expecting any of:␤ pair value␤»
jnthn oops :)
r: say Int.REPR # :P
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«P6opaque␤»
jnthn Can we make smileys at end of lines ok? ;)
TimToady: Will ponder the best way, though maybe we should just make .^bits or something work :)
TimToady r: say Int.^nativesize; # I see a .^ there :P
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«No such method 'nativesize' for invocant of type 'Perl6::Metamodel::ClassHOW'␤ in block at /tmp/wVgxufvinY:1␤␤»
TimToady r: say int.^nativesize; # I see a .^ there :P 19:08
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«0␤»
jnthn It's only on NativeHOW at present, and it only existed so far to pass the stuff down to the REPR...
I can see the use for it serving the role you're after; I'm not immediately sure of the best way to make it happen.
(Which is probably just exhaustion :)) 19:09
TimToady std: say Int.REPR :P 19:10
camelia std 0336087: OUTPUT«ok 00:00 42m␤»
TimToady it's already okay :)
n: say Int.REPR :P
camelia niecza v24-51-g009f999: OUTPUT«Unhandled exception: Unable to resolve method REPR in type Int␤ at /tmp/bmDWfn5Alo line 1 (mainline @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4331 (ANON @ 3) ␤ at /home/p6eval/niecza/lib/CORE.setting line 4332 (module-CORE @ 582) ␤ at /home/p…
dagurval how can I pass on all args to a sub, to another. Like "sub my_print { print @_ };" in perl5?
oh, that works in perl6, nevermind :) 19:11
jnthn sub foo(|c) { bar(|c) }
dagurval ok, thanks!
TimToady dagurval: don't do it the P5 way or things will get flattened more than you want
since P6 depends on binding to decide whether something is in item or list context 19:12
you want to be as lazy as possible about that decision, and |c gets you that
dagurval I see
lizmat suspects a near autopun
dagurval perl6 - be as lazy as possible! 19:13
masak lizmat: TimToady speaks in autopuns most of the time ;) 19:13
"We all agree on the necessity of compromise. We just can't agree on when it's necessary to compromise. 19:14
jnthn r: gather { take die "strasse to the left" }
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«strasse to the left␤current instr.: 'throw' pc 344141 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:150298) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8791)␤called from Sub 'die' pc 36512 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:14284) (src/gen/CORE.setting:578)␤called from Sub 'die' pc 36410 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:1…
masak " -- Larry Wall :)
jnthn Hmmm
Does anybody have an example handy that produces that nasty coroutine error report?
jnthn may be able to figure out a fix for the release... 19:15
masak r: die "Bart Simpson"; # means "The Bart Simpson"
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«Bart Simpson␤ in block at /tmp/yc9VIHz01N:1␤␤»
lizmat not "der" ?
jnthn hm, or maybe it's in RT...
lizmat jnthn: fwiw, I only saw that error when I messed something up in the core setting 19:16
timotimo lizmat: the joke requires the german part of that to be wrong
lizmat my impression is that it is an error message going wrong
masak lizmat: it's a wrong error hiding a real error, yes.
that much is known.
jnthn lizmat: I think I've seen it on the channel 19:17
masak jnthn: ask and RT answers: rt.perl.org/rt3/Ticket/Display.html?id=117763 19:18
r: sub p(*@l) { gather { if @l == 1 { take @l } else { @l.shift; for p(@l) -> @p {} } } }; say p 1..4
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102623 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46363) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8977)␤called from Sub '' pc 481 ((file unknown):269) (/tmp/T9e7Sa9Ebm:1)␤called from Sub '' pc 281061 (src/gen/COR…
masak there we go.
jnthn tack 19:19
masak r: sub p($n) { gather { if $n == 1 { take $n } else { $n--; for p($n) -> @p {} } } }; say p 4
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102623 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46363) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8977)␤called from Sub 'postfix:<-->' pc 72826 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:32060) (src/gen/CORE.setting:3307)␤called …
masak slightly simpler; don't know why I didn't think of that when I golf'd it. 19:20
doesn't require the array.
r: sub p($n) { gather { if $n == 1 { take $n } else { $n--; for p($n) -> @p {} } } }; say p 2
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«get_attr_str() not implemented in class 'Coroutine'␤current instr.: 'print_exception' pc 102623 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:46363) (src/gen/CORE.setting:8977)␤called from Sub 'postfix:<-->' pc 72826 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:32060) (src/gen/CORE.setting:3307)␤called …
masak r: sub p($n) { gather { if $n == 1 { take $n } else { $n--; for p($n) -> @p {} } } }; say p 1
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1␤»
masak requires the recursion, though.
masak r: say gather { if 2 == 1 { take 1 } else { gather { take 1 } } } 19:24
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«␤»
masak r: say gather { if 2 == 1 { take 1 } else { take gather { take 1 } } } 19:25
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«1␤»
timotimo does every instance of any class also carry around an instance of ClassHOW? 19:28
s/ an / their own /
jnthn There's an instance of ClassHOW per class declaration.
Not per instance of that class. 19:29
timotimo so does ClassHOW.new create an instance of the class it describes?
jnthn No
timotimo then what's the need for new_type?
jnthn it creates a new instance of ClassHOW, which is not very useful.
typically you want new_type, which does call ClassHOW.new
But instead makes a new type object with the required HOW and REPR. 19:30
timotimo OK
jnthn We don't actually have a Perl 6 way to express what nqp::newtype does yet.
timotimo (i don't even know what that does)
masak timotimo: each ordinary instance carrying around its own unique ClassHOW instance would defeat the purpose of ClassHOW objects, which is to represent an entire class.
timotimo makes sense 19:31
.o(still idly wondering why rakudo on parrot swallows as much RAM as it does for even the smallest programs)
masak better check whether each instance doesn't have its own ClassHOW instance after all :P 19:32
timotimo :D 19:33
timotimo how many differences are there between perl6 -e '...' and running a file with the same contents? 19:38
dagurval r: "/tmp/asdf".IO.open.say("hello") 19:38
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«IO PMC FileHandle is not in mode 2␤ in method print at src/gen/CORE.setting:11143␤ in method print at src/gen/CORE.setting:11141␤ in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:11154␤ in method say at src/gen/CORE.setting:889␤ in block at /tmp/VB8Pty1H5_:1␤␤»…
dagurval what's "mode 2"?
lizmat propably low level access level presentation? 19:38
FROGGS timotimo: there is no difference, is there? 19:39
timotimo there shouldn't be 19:39
but there should also not be much of a difference between pasting code line-by-line into the repl and running it from a file ;)
dagurval r: "/tmp/asdf".IO.open(:w).say("hello") 19:40
camelia rakudo 267c54: ( no output )
FROGGS well, the repl does extra stuff, no?
dagurval That worked :)
dalek p: 9e31a04 | jonathan++ | src/vm/parrot/6model/sixmodelobject.c:
Fix reporting of errors in gather/take.
 19:42
timotimo FROGGS: indeed, but it behaves wrong in some cases, like resetting $! in between lines 19:43
FROGGS yeah 19:45
timotimo in the specs it says "WHY (reserved for documentation?)", but in the current implementation, that's already what happens. should i describe how rakudo does it currently as the spec? 19:46
dukelet0 o/
FROGGS I mean, I never use the repl but have heard that it evaluates lines because it cant really know when a statement ends
masak timotimo: yes, please. 19:47
dalek ast: 8fa9b8c | (Elizabeth Mattijsen)++ | S32-hash/delete-adverb.t:
Added tests for single key combined adverbials

Specifically, :delete with :p, :kv, :k, :v. Slices and whatever tests will follow.		 19:53
masak lizmat++ 19:55
timotimo hm, how would a local variable be decorated with a .WHY? is that even possible? 19:57
masak timotimo: just pod it? 19:58
the declaration, that is. 19:59
timotimo er, wrong question. how do i read that out with introspection?
flussence $var.^WHY ? 20:01
wait, no
something like that though
timotimo i think that would have to at least be $var.^WHY($var) 20:02
because all vars of the same type share the object that responds to .^ calls (as i learn a few hours ago)
dalek ecs: 2d423f2 | (Timo Paulssen)++ | S12-objects.pod:
.WHY is specced now.
 20:03
jnthn $var.VAR.WHY I guess
lizmat calling it an early night: part 1 of a long ride to Warsaw tomorrow, part 2 the day after 20:04
flussence r: gist.github.com/flussence/5630469
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«(Any)␤bar␤»
flussence that seems broken to me.
lizmat see you at PLPW, those of you who will be there! 20:05
timotimo flussence: but that would go to Int.WHY anyway, shouldn't it?
jnthn lizmat: Safe travels, see you at the pre-conf piwo :) 20:06
lizmat piwo?
jnthn lizmat: Most important word in Polish :) 20:07
lizmat bar?
jnthn beer :)
lizmat close but no cigar, I guess (which is good because I don't smoke) 20:08
afk&
jnthn o/
timotimo when's the compiler release supposed to happen?
FROGGS tomorrow 20:09
timotimo oh my
that's soon
FROGGS :o)
dalek p: 3a9be10 | jonathan++ | src/vm/jvm/QAST/Compiler.nqp:
iEnsure NQP JVM bulids in master.

So the first release with it actually has it building.		 20:11
jnthn oops
.oO( Not sure if Apple fanboy or incompetent vi user... )
FROGGS too much piwo? 20:12
jnthn Not had any tonight
FROGGS me neither, I've got a cold ó.ò 20:12
jnthn has sleep deprevation... 20:13
And general ill feeling
Hopefully I'll be better for plpw
diakopter jnthn: go to bed :)
FROGGS yeah :/
doesnt help if you cant sleep
that is my problem right now, lying around there for hours, then sleep from two to six 20:14
jnthn diakopter: yes, going to bed hasn't been the problem...it's failing to sleep when I get there, and an inability to compensate my sleeping in due to teaching.
masak has sleep depravation 20:15
jnthn was slightly horrified to arrive around 8:30am this morning, expecting to start at 9:00, and find a room full of pepole expecting him to tell them insightful stuff...
timotimo were you late or were they too early?
well, it was probably a miscommunication in any case 20:16
jnthn Mostly, mismatched/non-communicated assumptions :)
Teaching assignments here normally start at 9:30 at the teaching centers on the first day, or 9:00 or so when I head on site :)
Anyway, I was all prepared, just had less time to reduce the blood level in my coffeestream... 20:17
timotimo hehehe 20:18
sorear o/ 20:19
FROGGS o/
jnthn o/ sorear
timotimo currently looking a bit at the grammar for Pod docs attachment. it seems the right place for making my $foo work with POD blocks is variable_declarator; so i'll have to look if there's a $*DECLARATOR_DOCS (from the line before) and set a $*DOCEE (for when the Pod is in the same line further to the right)
is that about right
dalek kudo-star-daily: 4332170 | coke++ | log/ (5 files):
today (automated commit)
 20:20
[Coke] rakudo star: modules/perl6-File-Tools is passing again
jnthn OK, I got the two NQP patches in that I wanted to pre-monthly-release :)
oh, 15:35 20:23
uh, ww
timotimo [Coke]: i cannot reproduce the dash-e.t failures locally 20:27
timotimo ah, i see. "XXX var traits NYI" 20:29
timotimo probably more work than just a little bit 20:29
tadzik oh, huh 20:32
so I'm not the only one with a practical narcolepsy these days?
tadzik I just fell asleep for like, 4 hours 20:32
timotimo i have something similar, but combined with not being able to sleep at night 20:33
tadzik that I had on monday
good. I thought there's something wrong with me, but now at least I'm not alone with my misery :)
FROGGS ó.ò 20:34
must be this channel
sorear impractical narcolepsy
timotimo agreed. 20:35
dalek ast: 0485c59 | dagurval++ | S32-io/spurt.t:
More spurt tests, including (to be?) spurt method in IO::Handle
 20:39
dalek : 59ca6bd | (Tobias Leich)++ | STATUS.md:
fudged tests (modules like Config.pm are not in ../lib)
 21:51
: 76db4d2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
fixed P5Str for Array/List
: 6f80ba5 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
iterator in for-loops is declared in for's body
timotimo &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf); - doesn't this actually need a : after assuming? 22:08
FROGGS yes think so 22:09
timotimo r: my &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf); 22:10
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable '$text' is not declared␤at /tmp/4eSpo_vzJS:1␤------> &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text⏏):len(Inf);␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
timotimo r: my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf);
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable '$text' is not declared␤at /tmp/jVB0J9BsAZ:1␤------> textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text⏏):len(Inf);␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
timotimo oh, yeah
r: my $test = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf);
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«===SORRY!===␤Variable '$text' is not declared. Did you mean '$test'?␤at /tmp/cv3O1J0WVV:1␤------> textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text⏏):len(Inf);␤ expecting any of:␤ postfix␤»
timotimo r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf);
camelia rakudo 267c54: ( no output ) 22:11
timotimo r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf);
camelia rakudo 267c54: ( no output )
timotimo apparently it works. maybe because it only has colonpair adverb syntax after it?
FROGGS r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming :str($text):len(Inf); textfrom("abc", 2) 22:14
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«2 unexpected named parameters passed (str, len)␤ in sub substr at src/gen/CORE.setting:2551␤ in sub CURRIED at src/gen/CORE.setting:2069␤ in block at /tmp/EeF9hfgXJh:1␤␤»
FROGGS r: my $text = lines()[0]; my &textfrom := &substr.assuming: :str($text):len(Inf); textfrom("abc", 2)
camelia rakudo 267c54: OUTPUT«Unexpected named parameter 'str' passed␤ in sub substr at src/gen/CORE.setting:2551␤ in sub CURRIED at src/gen/CORE.setting:2069␤ in block at /tmp/GpiSsqCdp3:1␤␤»
FROGGS it is not the same
timotimo then what is it? 22:15
FROGGS I#m not sure
masak 'night, #perl6 22:17
lue "That is, if you pass <a b> as an argument, it will bind as a single positional or slice item, but two slurpy items." (S02:3493) Is it just me or is that contradictory? 22:18
good ♞ masak o/
dalek : 07924e6 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Grammar.nqp:
make adhoc declared variables our-scoped
 22:19
: fa15468 | (Tobias Leich)++ | lib/Perl5/Terms.pm:
add infix &&=, += and *=
lue (I believe I understand that sentence now; it was just confusing wording) 22:28
FROGGS lue: then maybe fix it 22:31
lue does so
timotimo FROGGS: are you targetting any specific cpan module at the moment? 22:33
maximone I have a problem.... when I install a module like NCurses or NativeCall I have always errors on t/03-siple-returns.t: 22:37
current instr.: '' pc 3132 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda.pir:1282) (lib/Panda.pm:87) called from Sub 'throw' pc 333436 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:149675) (src/gen/CORE.setting:9303) called from Sub 'die' pc 35346 (src/gen/CORE.setting.pir:14008) (src/gen/CORE.setting:578) called from Sub '' pc 494 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Tes
maximone :9) called from Sub 'withp6lib' pc 771 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Common.pir:345) 22:38
(lib/Panda/Common.pm:31) called from Sub '' pc 352 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Tester.pir:205) (lib/Panda/Tester.pm:7)
called from Sub '' pc 290 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Tester.pir:175) (lib/Panda/Tester.pm:6) called from Sub 'indir' pc 389 (/opt/rakudo-star-2013.02/install/lib/parrot/4.10.0/languages/perl6/site/lib/Panda/Common.pir:224) (lib/Panda/Common.pm:13)
etc etc..
How can I resolve this? 22:39
dalek ecs: 465ec29 | lue++ | S02-bits.pod:
[S02] Clarified quotewords being bound to parameters

The sentence on how a quoteword is flattened or sliced when bound to a parameter is a bit clearer now.
maximone So I must download a new version of rakudo star? Sorry but I'm a newbie 22:41
tadzik maximone: which version is that/ 22:46
also, please don't paste on a channel; use gist.github.com for example
it's always safer to tray the latest version
maximone ok thank you for the advice. I wil use github and download the latest version. 22:48
tadzik is there any reason why you were using an older one? 22:49
lue guesses package manager, judging by the use of /opt 22:50
maximone I downloaded it from the rakudo website. The latest post was that the version 2013.2.1 was the latest, "useful and usable" version 22:51
geekosaur I think that may be it; they're still clearing up some build issues before releasing an updated one 22:53
maximone The post was in 24/02/2013 22:55
timotimo maximone: you missed to paste the actual error
maximone tadzik said me to not paste. I will use gist.github.com. When I will find how to use it. I've never use it. 22:57
timotimo just copy the text in there and click "create public gist" or "...secret..." on the bottom right
then copy-paste the url from the address bar 22:58
maximone Ok
timotimo: the address is gist.github.com/anonymous/5631621 23:01
timotimo ah, uh-huh 23:03
timotimo i wonder why it fails 23:03
but if you're willing to try to go on, why not panda install NativeCall --no-tests or whatever the flag may be 23:04
maximone Ok, but is there a log file for the errors in panda? 23:05
dalek kudo/nom: 1a9b0da | dagurval++ | src/core/IO.pm:
Added slurp(IO::Handle... support
 23:07
kudo/nom: e4cb829 | dagurval++ | t/spectest.data:
added S32-io/spurt.t
kudo/nom: 5fa040f | dagurval++ | src/core/IO.pm:
Moved spurt into methods in IO::Handle
kudo/nom: a50c2ef | (Brent Laabs)++ | / (2 files):
Merge pull request #157 from dagurval/IO-spurt

Added spurt(IO::Handle... support
timotimo i don't think there is, but you can manually clone the repository (it's on github.com/jnthn/zavolaj) and run the tests yourself by just running perl6 t/blah.t 23:08
big sigh, i wish proper EXPORT sub support would make it into this compiler release 23:09
maximone Thank you timotimo I will try 23:10
Tene timotimo: s/wish/will write patches adding/ 23:12
timotimo Tene: it's *almost* there, but i have no idea why it doesn't work properly
that's why my ADT module can't even hope to get into the Star distribution 23:13
japhb_ \o/ # nqp-jvm works for me on nqp/master! 23:39
tadzik woo :)
is rak-jvm-support merged?
japhb_ jnthn++ for 3a9be10a
tadzik iEnsure :) 23:40
japhb_ tadzik, I don't think so; I think it was just that one commit
tadzik hm 23:41
g diff rak-jvm-support..master | wc -l
135361
yeah, not yet :)
japhb_ tadzik, aside from refactoring, is there anything from a user perspective to be aware of WRT the panda changes merged in the last week or so?
tadzik japhb_: there shouldn't be 23:42
japhb_ OK cool.
tadzik I hope there are no user-visible changes
maybe something regarding messages printed out and dependency resolution
but nothing significant
japhb_ Has anything changed about module compiling/loading/handling in Rakudo in the last few weeks? 23:42
japhb_ What changed about dependency resolution? Was it just the part about only considering .pm[6] files? 23:43
tadzik well, there was a bug recently, that if A depended on B and C, and both B and C depended on D, then D would get installed twice 23:44
or something like this
japhb_ Oh heh, gotcha.
tadzik I made panda figure out all the necessary deps upfront and make sure they're not redundant
sdo hello 23:45
sorear hello 23:46
timotimo good day 23:47
sdo in perl 6 I have an array s.a my @a="1"=>1,"b b"=>3; and I print say @a>>.key ; say @a>>.keys; I have the same output. Is there a difference between .key and .keys ?
sorear and timotimo hello 23:48
timotimo The .keys method also returns the keys of all existing elements. For a multidimensional array each key is a list containing one value for each dimension. # i'll just paste from the spec
.key is apparently a method for Enum and Pair and friends 23:50
so i suppose the >>.keys would evaluate for the whole array and the >>.key for each entry in the array
flussence no, >>.keys would just typecast each element of the array to a list and then call List.keys on it. 23:51
timotimo ah, that could be, too. 23:52
r: my @a = "1"=>1, "b b"=>3; @a>>.keys.gist.say; 23:53
camelia rakudo a50c2e: OUTPUT«1 b b␤»
timotimo r: my @a = "1"=>1, "b b"=>3; @a>>.keys.perl.say;
camelia rakudo a50c2e: OUTPUT«(("1",).list, ("b b",).list)␤»
timotimo indeed you were right.

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